Coaching Roundup: Gannon, Stefanski and Carroll are Gone, Who is Lucky to Stay?

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where maybe Nick Shook has some dead money with the Browns right now everyone else does. I'm Greg Rosenthal, and I'm here in the Chris Westley. I guess no, I'm not. I'm at home. I'm just used to saying that man, Nick Shook. It's here on a day we don't look forward to. It's what used to be called Black Monday, the artist formerly known as Black Monday, but we can call it that. No one's really paying any attention anymore. And I mentioned the Browns because Andrew Berry is still employed by the Browns despite a ton of contracts for players that weren't good this year and won't even be on the roster next year. But he survives. And so I didn't know if you know your contract back with the Browns back in the day. Maybe maybe it's still going on. Maybe there's nothing.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: I didn't make enough money with them to even register on some sort of backed pay ode.

00:00:58
Speaker 3: Trust me, your.

00:01:00
Speaker 1: Cap figure wasn't huge. They weren't like avoiding extra years or anything like that.

00:01:05
Speaker 2: I mean, you want to tack on some void years and give me some you know, Look, the best job is to be a college football head. Coach and get fired after two years into a five year deal because then you get paid millions for the next three years. They want to do that for me by all means, you know, backdated.

00:01:18
Speaker 3: I'm down.

00:01:19
Speaker 1: Okay. I think you'd make a good coach, you'd be a good leader of men, but for now.

00:01:24
Speaker 3: I'm a bad teacher. But thank you.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: You're one of the leaders of NFL Daily and we're going to go through the news of the day, essentially the coaches that have been fired, the gms that have been fired, the guys who were retained, a few odds and ends, eventually some injury stuff. But let's start with the guys that are gone. Right now, we have six head coach openings. I don't know if I said it on our show, but it looked going into it that like six and a half was the over under. We could always have a surprise shake loose a little later. I'm going to go in the order of surprise. So let's start with the Cardinals, because Jonathan Gannon being fired does not surprise me. We've been talking about it on the show now for a minute, but the insiders were continuing to hammer this story that he thought he was going to be safe that he was safe, and in the end, he did lose his job after three years. Monty Austen for the GM who helped hire Gannon, who came at the same time, will remain. I watched a little bit of that press conference and there's a lot that was interesting here, But I just want to get your kind of overall thoughts on Jonathan Gannon losing at the end of a tough season for the three and fourteen Cardinals.

00:02:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, a really tough season for a team that started to and out. But when you lose fourteen of your last fifteen, you're basically doomed, like like there's you need even though no matter how close you lose these games. It is a results based business. That is going to be the defining theme of this entire episode. It is a results based business, and unfortunately for Jonathan and his team did not produce the results that mattered most, which was wins. You didn't need to stack a bunch of them. You only needed a handful more to probably save your job. Because this team, the defense finally came around, and that's his forte is defense. They were much better on that side of the ball, but they did not finish. They didn't exactly. You're right, you're right, you're right, You're right. They did, Cavin. They also had some injuries, especially in the secondary, that they were dealing with, as most teams do, but they didn't finish games.

00:03:26
Speaker 3: They lost so many one score games.

00:03:27
Speaker 2: There was that whole stretcher in the season where they were losing one score game after one score game, after one score game. You had the quarterback dysfunction with Kyler to Jacoby Brissett. There seems to be a bit of a lack of direction on that side of the football. It bums me out because I could have signed up for another year of Jonathan Gannon because of the defensive strides they made, at least earlier in the season. But I also can totally justify the fact that they fired him. When you lose fourteen of your last fifteen games.

00:03:51
Speaker 1: It's why I just never bought the insiders on this one, because you start losing games by as much as they were. He finished fifteen and thirty six overall. I think for that amount of games, you know, he was in the bottom five percentile of all coaches hired like that. You just it's not gonna happen. Kyler Murray was an interesting part of the press conference. The Jonathan Gannon Cardinals went thirteen and seventeen with Kyler Murray over the last three years, in two and nineteen without Kyler Murray. Despite that, it really seems like Kyler Murray is done with this organization. Monte Austen Fort was asked about their quarterbacks in the press.

00:04:33
Speaker 4: Cotton, you know, as it pertains to Kyler. You know, Kyler's under contract, Jacoby's under contract, Keaton Slovas is under contract. You know, we just came off the last game of the year, and less than twenty four hours ago. We just left the field, and so you know, there will be a time and place for those discussions. You know, I think when you come off a season like we have, you know, i'd say all options are on the table.

00:05:00
Speaker 1: So I really thought it was fascinating. We was like, we didn't actually ask you about Kiton.

00:05:06
Speaker 2: Slovaslov Yeah, he bounced around in college a couple of different places.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: I thought that was funny that he was even mentioned there there without familiar.

00:05:16
Speaker 1: We didn't ask you about Jacoby, by the way, either, We asked you about Kyler, and then he put them all on equal playing ground. You know, Caden slous Slovas and the guy who you went to Oklahoma in a big show to show how much you supported him as the new management like when you came in. So they asked that. They tried to follow up with him a little later too, and one thing I noted was how he said, you know, Kyler, you know we had we had some issues there, you know, finishing finishing games, and Jacoby played well for us. And I was like, Okay, it's as clear as can be that he's pointing out that he thought Jacoby played pretty well. So it wouldn't surprise me actually if Jacoby Brissette is back, plus another quarterback. But there is every reason to believe that Kyler Murray will be on the trade block and a really interesting option. I think I'm not buying a ton of Kyler Murray stock, but I'll take some of it if people are selling at a low price that maybe he could have an interesting second part of his career. But it's not going to be with the car.

00:06:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it matters about fit, and we'll obviously tackle that as they explore their options in the trade market and everything else, or if they want to cut bait entirely. I believe that contract is actually they could pretty much manage the capit that they were able to cut him. I know Tuas is a different story when it comes to cutting guys.

00:06:34
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's we knew this was coming.

00:06:37
Speaker 2: I mean, Kyler basically got soft benched earlier this year and it seemed as if Gannon was coaching for his job. But they also understood that the offense performed better with Jakobe Prissett, which is damning evidence for Kyler Murray because look, Jacoby Brissett, for as much as he's a reliable backup, has a very visible ceiling. Your offense should not perform better with your backup than your starting quarterback, unless you're starting quarterback. Does not fit what you're going to do now re entering an off season in which manty astin Ford has to hire a head coach and figure out what they want to do, and that's going to you know, marry with the head coach and their vision as well, So you kind of can't put the cart before the horse. But there's a lot of questions for them to answer.

00:07:11
Speaker 1: So Kyler Murray has only one year left of guaranteed money. It's quite a bit, but it's not crazy. It's thirty six point eight million dollars. It's like for one year Kyler Murray and not a long term commitment. There is another year on his contract after that. That seems fine, And you're right, they could cut him and basically have base no cap hit. They could also trade him even for a minimal price, and they would save thirty five million dollars against the caps, so they'll be motivated to find a price for him. He will absolutely have a market. I think there is no question. It's just whether he wants to, you know, really control the process and negotiate where he's going to go almost force his release, or if there's a team out there willing to trade something for him that he would be down to go to. So we'll we'll have to see. And watching this press conference was the reminder, and this is going to be a theme on this show. We're going to talk about your browns neck. It's always better to be the guy sitting next to the owner in the owner booth to be the guy on the field. Because man Michael Bidwell and Austin for It just kept defending how good the roster was that we think it's a really good roster, and the reporters really pushed back on that, like you haven't drafted a pro bowler? Are you really happy with Marvin Harrison and Darius Robinson your recent first round picks? Like why are you so happy with this roster? And they went through the reason a lot of young players are playing for them. Ya da da da da. But it just as a reminder, it's better to be that GM. So let's go to the Browns. Actually we know, and if you're watching or listening to this, I'm sure you know by now Kevin Stefanski is gone, Andrew Barry the GM is staying, which to me was the most notable part of this, because I really believe the correct move would have been to start from scratch. For some reason, you wanted to split the baby, as they say, like I'd be keeping Stefanski not Andrew Berry. As a Browns fan, what were you feeling when you found out this is how they chose to.

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Address So I have a lot of thoughts on this because I had friends hitting me up as soon as the Browns game was over yesterday, where's the fired Stefanski tweet?

00:09:19
Speaker 3: Like, where's the report where why isn't it not here yet?

00:09:22
Speaker 2: And I pushed back against it because I felt like with this team Kevin Stefanski, Yes, he won coach of the Year twice. He also was asked by this organization to turn water into wine on multiple occasions, and he did. One year, twenty twenty three, he made the playoffs with five different starting quarterbacks. He got a big stroke of luck with Joe Flacco showing up and still being able to sling it. But he also, you know, crafted the offense around him and enabled that to happen. In the last two years, he has not been afforded those same opportunities. All of this goes back to the Deshaun Watson trade. I could say this till I'm blue in the face, but they handed a guy who is an offensive minded coach, a broken offense, a lack of personnel that only got worse over the last two seasons, and expected him to what extract blood from a stone here? Like, what are we doing? You're not going to win games with the offensive roster as it was constructed. The offensive line was getting old. You didn't have anything at quarterback. Nick Chubb aged out, You drafted two running backs you didn't have any talent at receiver. The Jerry Judy contract was an abomination. None of this has worked except for their tight ends that they had, And yeah, okay, tight ends can be a rookie quarterbacks best friend. But you had two rookie quarterbacks and Joe Flacco this year. Of course you were going to lose a bunch of games. You're setting him up for failures, So to make him the scapegoat, I thought was unfair. I also think about the immediate reaction that was going to follow Kevin Stefanci getting fired, which is exactly what happened today, which is he's now a top candidate to get hired somewhere else, could be a front runner for the Giants and for the Titans. Gee, if you're the Browns, a team that wants to make a change because you haven't won many games over the last two years, you'd think that you would maybe keep the coach. That two teams are instantly going to be listing a top their wish list. It just there's so much to this, and I feel like if you're going to hold anybody accountable, you do it with the GM who gave you this badly constructed roster who maybe had his own hands tied when the Browns traded for Deshaun Watson and robbed this front office of three first round picks. How can keep a team competitive when you don't have three first round picks. But Barry is more responsible than Kevin Stefanski.

00:11:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone likes to point that out. Ah, the Deshaun Watson trade isn't their fault. The ownership made them do it, and this kind of recognizes that. Well. First of all, Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski, but especially Andrew Berry when they brought Watson in. They're all up out there on the podium telling all the reasons why. And I'm sure they were part of the conversation when ownership wanted to do it. It's not like they weren't consulted. It's not like if they didn't think it was a good fit, not as a for what he did off the field and the culture and the fact that he was facing the league suspension, but even just a schematic fit coming off of injury, they could have stood up and do that. So I don't buy that at all. But let's let's put Watson over to the side. There's a pretty strong case that Andrew Berry is one of the worst general managers in the league if you just ignored Deshaun Watson entirely in a year where they needed a bunch of players, I know they got a great draft haul and that's what saved them. They even they even cited that in the press release.

00:12:17
Speaker 3: And the kicker.

00:12:18
Speaker 2: Don't forget the kicker, can't forget about the kickers improvement. That was a big feather in Andrew Berry's cap.

00:12:24
Speaker 1: He had a great draft at non premium positions, but a great draft. I'm not gonna argue with that. But he's had five drafts, right, And here's what else he did that has nothing to do with Deshaun Watson. Here are some players that they are paying next year that are literally not on the roster next year. David and Joku kind of a relative bust in terms of self scouting. Keep just paying them and paying him new contract. Maybe not a bust, but I don't think he's lived up to the money. Twenty four million dollar cap hit next year, he's not on the roster. Wyatt Teller ten million dollar cap hit next year, not on the roster. Ethan Potchik five million dollar capit next year, not on the roster. Joel Potonio nine million dollar roster next year, capit next year, not on the roster, probably retiring a great one, an all time Brown. Good for him. Jerry Judy's contract. You mentioned a disaster, one of the worst wide receivers in the league this year. In terms of his consistency in his draft. Jack Conklin's contract, it's not really looking. They can heal like the oldest, most expensive offensive line. And this was all self scouting. Those guys were in the building. And the problem I have with very more than anything is they held on to try to win these last two years because they were kind of win now years or else we're going to get fired. They had the most expensive roster in the entire NFL the last two years. I know Watson's part of that. There's other expensive quarterbacks in the league. He's not the only one. They have the most expensive roster and they won eight games. Like, what are what are we even talking about here? I I could think I'm extra annoyed because he's mystery analytics, But in terms of like his decision making, the process hasn't been good and the actual decisions haven't been good. So it's crazy. Correct, he's got to help to and he's got to have the thing where whoever comes in next year, unless they win right away, everyone's gonna want Andrew Berry fired, you know. So then it's like you're back in the same cycle.

00:14:22
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely, And what you have is a bit of confirmation that's happening here at confirmation bias on the part of the front office because they have to confirm that they made the right decisions by you know, extending guys and that sort of thing, keeping their own oh we're homegrown talent, that sort of thing. But really, what you have here is new age Mickey Loomis. Nobody loved Void years in the NFL more than Mickey Loomis when he had Drew Brees, and now nobody loves Void Years more than Andrew Berry. He's been doing it with Watson's contract restructuring every year. He's been doing it with a number of other guys to get everything under the cap and try to stay competitive, and eventually it buries you and you pun unintended with his last name being Barry, different uses of Barry, but yeah, it it's not a good situation. And you know, I got to push back on one more thing too, not on what you said, but just on this whole decision and the fact that Kevin Stefanski was essentially scapegoaded for being put in an unwinnable situation. The discourse that also follows this well outside of this podcast, that it's somehow related to Shador's Sanders, Like.

00:15:16
Speaker 3: Shador improved, I didn't even know that very just.

00:15:19
Speaker 2: Marginally, you know, game by game by game showed improvement, but very far from being a confirmed future at quarterback.

00:15:25
Speaker 1: Right.

00:15:26
Speaker 2: If you kind of went throughout the reaction to Sefanski beting fired, everybody liked to not everybody, but a lot of people like to pivot it back towards he didn't develop his quarterbacks. He he really robbed Shador of his you know, the mismanagement of Shador and the way that they handled quarterbacks this year.

00:15:40
Speaker 3: That's what cost him his job.

00:15:41
Speaker 2: That had nothing to do with his job is the fact that he got fired was because he didn't win enough games. He was given that room and tried to make the best of it. So let's not pivot that towards Shador, even though I know it's gonna get your clicks and everything. But that just really drove me nuts because I'm like, we're missing the point here. I didn't even analyze those entire firing that's insane.

00:15:58
Speaker 1: I would see Shador from evaluating his story as a rookie and development and how it relates to sefanste I think it was like solid. It's like a C plus. You have a Brown guy who started games, who showed some promise, who's a developmental quarterback. He's he's not likely to be competing for the starting job next year unless he was like a big underdog. But if you find a guy that you think might be like a long term backup or better, and he certainly has a chance to do that, he showed flashes like that's fine.

00:16:30
Speaker 2: Well what hit me yesterday when watching the Cardinals right after watching the Browns Shador could be like Jacoby Prisett plus in his career and that's totally fine.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: That's a long career.

00:16:39
Speaker 1: That would be great, a great outcome. Yeah, Sefanski is winning percentage. By the way Bill Barnwell pointed this out, was somewhere around four fifty in the end. I think every other Brown's coach combined since the two point zero started is around three hundred, and there's only one playoff appearance before Stefanski. He got two, so ultimately he did well, And yeah, he might get a job. He might even benefit from not taking one of these jobs and having that year off, because I think he should be a head coach that feels comfortable enough to think I will get another job at some point, and sometimes the year away helps. Pete Carroll last offseason was not one of those guys he knew. Actually, let's listen to Andrew Berry. We just buried him for a while and we got this clip that our producer, Chris Bobona worked hard on getting, so let's listen.

00:17:31
Speaker 5: Coming into the season, we were realistic that, you know, we were a team and a roster in transition, and ultimately this decision is born from the fact that we've ultimately felt like we did not see enough progress in areas that were controllable independent of certain game outcomes.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: Can I can opine on that for a second. He's not entirely wrong. Operationally, there were problems with this team. There were way too many illegal formations and false starts and that sort of thing that comes from coaching. But if you understand that, you're a roster in transition. Then there are other areas that you should accept you're not going to be very good at.

00:18:15
Speaker 3: Which is your final record being the most important one.

00:18:17
Speaker 1: Well, the main thing for me is if I'm Kevin Stefanski, it's one thing to be fired by the Browns. I'm sure that wasn't pleasant, but there might be a sense of relief, to be honest, that he couldn't carry it. But I think the moment where he would probably get angry is listening to Andrew Berry talk about him coming short, and Andrew Berry releasing like a four paragraph press release. Andrew Berry gets press release statements about firing head coaches. It's just crazy. Pete Carroll mentioned him quickly there that he only signed a three year contract with the Raiders. Even going into this job, it felt like a short term deal. Even if it went well, it might have been a short term deal. It turns into one year. I don't have that much more to say about Pete Carroll and the Raiders. Frankly, looking back, I think what's most interesting shook is looking forward. I noticed that in their press release, Tom Brady's name was mentioned like and that's the first time they've done this that it's going to be Brady and the current GM John Spytech, who is making, you know, the decision on the next coach. Albert Breer has mentioned Jesse Minter, who has some Michigan ties like Tom Brady, so there might be some familiarity there, you know, Brian Flores has been mentioned. I think just from a pure roster perspective, this is the toughest of the six jobs because there's no quarter like Titans get an advantage because they have a quarterback, and then the other rosters are just better or they have a quarterback. So just from a roster perspective, I think they have the most to improve upon. And when you look at the picks last year, it was a lot of Carrol picks, so it really feels like they're kind of starting from scratch.

00:20:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:20:02
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because this portion of the year is an interviewing season, right, and typically when you're hiring, you're looking to be convinced on why you should hire that candidate. But for teams like the Raiders, they also have to sell their situation to candidates they want, which is why you often missed out on the biggest guys. It's why Ben Johnson chose the Bears over other opportunities last year, and I think that this is a really tough team to sell to the highest level credits because if you look at their roster, like you just said, weaknesses everywhere, held together, patchwork defense, and I think about, all right, who are the players that you could put on a billboard and show to that coach and you got three. You got Brock Bawers, Max Crosby, whose future is not guaranteed to be in Vegas, and Ashton Genty, who struggled behind the worst offensive line in the league.

00:20:52
Speaker 3: That's it. So it's gonna be really hard to replace him with somebody.

00:20:55
Speaker 2: I like the idea of leaning toward a mentor guy, not necessarily because of Brady's involvement, but because I feel like he's just built like a future head coach and if there were ever an opportunity for him to get his first shot, I think, you know, this is one of them.

00:21:07
Speaker 3: This is like, this scene's kind of ideal.

00:21:09
Speaker 2: But God, there's so much work they have to do to this roster to really make themselves competitive again. I can't believe, and this is on me, that I was seduced by the Geno Smith trade. As much as I was in the offseason.

00:21:19
Speaker 3: I was so excited.

00:21:20
Speaker 1: Mean, I can definitely believe that I was seduced by it. And they only got Geno because Tom Brady couldn't close the deal. Tom Brady's essentially a businessman there, right, he was. He went there to make it happen. My name and my knowledge of the league's going to make it happen. So he met with Matthew Stafford, and Matthew Stafford said no things. And he met with Ben Johnson, and Ben Johnson said no things. So let's show us what you got here. Tom Brady, there's not really the hot names like that, but he is absolutely running this organization. Obviously John Spytech is the more day to day guy, but in terms of the biggest decisions, I believe that it's going to be Brady making them. And yeah, Patrick Graham's was the defensive coordinator there. He becomes an interesting coaching free agent, but it's gonna be tricky. The one thing they have to offer is an owner that is willing to spend in a great facility, not just the stadium, but like the practice facility. They treat their player as well, like it all that sort of stuff. Actually, the Raiders have come a long way, and that's why Mark Davis deserves a little bit of credit for having like six or seven different coaches on his payroll right now, none of whom work for the Raiders.

00:22:30
Speaker 2: He just before he gets it, I was like, how many former head coaches is he still paying right now? We got McDaniels, Pierce, Carol, just the list goes on from there.

00:22:42
Speaker 1: It's it's crazy. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back with some of the guys who are staying put. And it's just a few more odds and ends from back on NFL Daily, where I'm gonna make Nick Schuck play the uncomfortable role, or at least watch me play this role of a guy who seems annoyed that other grown men professionals kept their jobs in this site.

00:23:19
Speaker 3: That is an interesting stance to take, but let's do it.

00:23:22
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I'm voicing some of my frustration with how some of these organizations are run and maybe representing how some of the local fan base feels in different cities. Starting in Cincinnati, got the text from Nick Westling. He was not surprised that the Bengals announced they are keeping Zach Taylor, the head coach, and Duke Tobin, who runs the front office. If you're watching us on YouTube, appreciate you guys. If you're looking for the recap show on YouTube, it's a collaboration. It's on our site. But you can see the Mike Brown statement where he points out that he he knows the season's been frustrating and disappointing, but that they're going to keep Duke Tobin and Zach Taylor, that they are the right leaders to guide them forward. They have proven that they can build and lead teams that compete for championships. He mentions that they were in a Super Bowl and made it to two AFC championships. It's no surprise, but it's just it's just very Bengals that we saw, you know, Marvin Lewis day for sixteen years without winning a playoff game. It's going to take a lot, I think for these guys to leave. I just go back to the fact that in the last three seasons, when Joe Burrow starts, Zach Taylor's Bengals are barely over five hundred over a three year span. If you had told me after that second AFC Championship game in a row, that they weren't going to be in the playoffs for next three years. I know burrows injuries are part of it, but not really. They haven't had a playoff worthy record. When Burrow starts to me, it's just not good enough and they're kind of accepting the middle.

00:25:05
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:25:05
Speaker 2: You know, the first thing I thought when they announced this, which wasn't surprising, little disheartening if you're a Bengals fan, is how many years does the Super Bowl appearance by you of leeway and in Cincinnati, it's at least four, because that's where they're headed at this point after missing the playoffs for three straight years. The problem is that in order for this to make sense, you have to at minimum win nine games next year, which is where they finished the previous.

00:25:31
Speaker 3: Two seasons and missed the playoffs. And you gotta be in that range.

00:25:35
Speaker 1: Now you got to win.

00:25:36
Speaker 3: That's not good enough.

00:25:37
Speaker 1: You like win ten or eleven.

00:25:40
Speaker 2: But he finished like six wins this year and they lose in Week eighteen, which doesn't matter. But they lose in a fashion, which, as we covered on yesterday's show, your coach is saying he's out there fighting for their lives and it just it just feels like I can't take any of this seriously. You have a franchise quarterback, You dedicated a lot of money to your receivers. Your defense has been disaster, although it did get better in the second half of this season under a new defensive coordinator. But it's like, do you just believe that another off season of talent acquisition and everything is going to make this right? Because I have seen enough evidence over the last three years that Zach Taylor can get you to mid and I don't know if he can get you above mid unless everything's working really well for them.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: And I know Joe Burrow's support of Zach Taylor is really important. Well, yeah, Joe Burrow loves Zach Taylor. He lets him do whatever he wants. He wants the offense, and I'm not even saying that that in and of itself is a bad idea. Letting Joe Burrow's voice, you know, be the most important, but it's sort of not Zach Taylor's offense. I don't know what the theme of their offseason will be this year. Last year is all about we got to start the season fast. We see, yeah, and it didn't It didn't matter. It's keeping Burrow healthy. There's a chance that Al Golden loses his job. I would be surprised. But their defense really struggled. There were some schematic questions of how they were playing, but more of the same in Cincinnati. The same is true for the Colts, and we mentioned that on Sunday Nights Show. We didn't go at length about them keeping Chris Ballard. It's gonna be the GM's tenth season. Talk about a guy who I think has done a mid job, to use your word like, he hasn't been a bad GM. He's somewhere just in the middle. He's had moments that were positive. He's had plenty of moments that were negative. He's just kind of in the middle. You can see some pluses and mindsets. But they have had no playoff success whatsoever under Chris Ballard. So that's a long time for a decade. But he's gonna be the GM. Shane Stiken's gonna be the head coach. Let's listen to Carli Gordon Ersa in her first press conference after a season as the main owner of the Indianapolis Colts. She shares ownership with her two sisters, but she is the front facing in the building making decisions on a very daily basis owner of the Colts, and she explained the decision on.

00:27:59
Speaker 6: Monday to our fans, My sisters and I want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for your loyalty and support as always, but particularly this season. You're right to be frustrated with how the latter part of our season went. I'm pissed. We are all pissed.

00:28:22
Speaker 1: I don't know, because she was looking up at that point. I was like, did she right I'm pissed? Into the written I think maybe not, or maybe she freestyled there. She did say she was pissed. Later. I did watch this because I was curious. Not a lot of owners go up right after the season. She answered tough questions and she was very careful of what she would say and was kind of asking follow up to the reporters to make them clarify. I liked it all. It made sense. I don't think there was a lot of breaking news from it beyond her just saying that the urgency is even higher this year than it was last year, and the urgency was high because people wanted her to say it was a playoffs or bust. But she basically says, we have to finish the season this time. And a reporter noted that it's the last year of Chris Ballard's contract and would he get an extension. She said, well, we haven't talked about that yet. So I think she made it very clear that she thought it was a better path to maintain continuity and give this regime one more year together. And she really wouldn't answer the question directly, but I got the sense that she looked at them as like a package deal, that if they're going to start over, they'll really start over. And ultimately I agree with her because I think Stiching is worth keeping and Ballard isn't so offensive to me that you have to get rid of them this year. I think going one more year and seeing if they make the playoffs and are contender is worth a chot.

00:29:47
Speaker 2: Okay, So first off, this is the first time in my life and she's older than me, but not that much older than me, in which I felt connected to an owner like like generationally, her just saying I'm pissed, We're all pissed. I was like, yes, you're speaking my language, and you should be the other part of this is I totally agree with what you're saying. They are a package deal. They should be together. But I going into this season could not believe that Ballard was still employed, just because I felt like he was real close to getting fired each of the last two previous seasons. Now you look at those results from the Colts until they lost Daniel Jones, or maybe the two games before they lost Daniel Jones, and everything you know, went off the rails, and you can use that as evidence to justify keeping Ballard.

00:30:27
Speaker 3: I mean, he put together a pretty good team.

00:30:29
Speaker 2: At one point, we were talking them the most dynamic and perhaps complete offense early in this season. Now, a lot of that had to do with the acquisition of Daniel Jones. It also is them conveniently making people forget that they spent the fourth overall pick on Anthony Richardson because they had Daniel Jones. And they arrive at this crossroads in the offseason because they know they won't be able to have Jones available because of the injury that he suffered, and it makes you think, Okay, if you're going to prove that you're worthy of this job, you have to nail whatever you're going to do at quarterback next because that's going to determine whether you're competitive next year, and if you don't nail it, you're not going to have to point to any reason because the win loss record is going to take care of the job for itself.

00:31:08
Speaker 3: So I'm on board with this. I felt like Stichen did a really good job. Was that almost two or three two years ago? Three years ago?

00:31:15
Speaker 2: At this point, I'm losing track of time in which Gardner Minshew kept the ship afloat and they were competitive throughout the season after losing their starting quarterback early in the year, Anthony Richardson, and I think that he earned the goodwill that he's gotten to this point. Ballard saved their partnership with his performance constructing this roster this year. So they each get one more year, and I hope it works out for them, because wathing the Colts to be a competitive and really explosive team was fun until they weren't an explosive team anymore, and then it was just kind of depressing.

00:31:41
Speaker 3: So hopefully they get back on track.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. She kept hitting the point that she thought she saw improvement, that they had specific things they wanted Chris Ballard to work on and a lot of it, you know, bore fruit this year and this part she wasn't specific about. But they have a really good offensive line where they've actually replenished it with younger players. They have a better defense because of their coordinator. Lou An Romo is getting, you know, a head coaching interview in ten back.

00:32:09
Speaker 3: It's two all over again.

00:32:11
Speaker 1: There's some promise there. Although one of his big signings, and this is obviously not anyone's fault in the organization, Charvarius Ward, said on Monday that he's considering retirement because of repeated concussion. So you wish all the best for him, but that's something to keep an eye on. Sas Gardner trade. You know, she was asked about and obviously she okayed that, and she said, you know, positive things about what sas Gardner could be moving forward. Look, they don't have their first round pick the next two years, so that might be another reason to keep Ballard anyways and see through his vision. And basically it really sounds like both sides want to bring Daniel Jones back. And I don't really know about what Anthony Richardson's future is. I bet he doesn't have one. Speaking of quarterbacks and futures and whether they'll be with their head coach. Let's talk Lamar Jackson because we did the show immediately after the Tyler Luke miss kick, in which Jordan Rutt reminded me that we greeted with total silence for like fifteen straight seconds because we're in the room with Patrick and it's just like, oh no, that is and then it's like showtime, great job by Patrick, and then he's back on the air doing Black Monday coverage on NFL Network, you know, eight ten hours later in a suit. What a what a pro our guy, Patrick is. We didn't have any Lamar Jackson sound or any sound after the game. I just thought this question to him about John Harbaugh was interesting. Take a listen, Well did you do you want to see John?

00:33:49
Speaker 7: You you asked me about next year, Jamison, I'm so caught up in what just happened tonight. I can't I can't focus on that right now. I just told you, like he asked me, are you still I'm strolling right now, I'm still trying to process what's going on. I know we lost, but you know that's all.

00:34:07
Speaker 1: So they asked him about John Harbot. That was Jamison Hemsley of ESPN, and I think Lamar answered it in a perfect way. He was very emotional and upset about the loss. But he also had a chance to stand on the table for a coach that he's been with a long time and he didn't. So I don't think it's crazy for an adult to read into that a little bit interesting.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: I actually, you know, I don't think people consider this when they give a non answer, that you have the opportunity to defend somebody and you don't, and that that resonates like that sends a message. I mean, I understand in that moment he was emotional answer answer.

00:34:42
Speaker 1: That's why you sometimes ask the questions.

00:34:44
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:34:46
Speaker 2: He played his tailoff, but you're right because if he was fully on board, he would have been like, look, he guided us here, he got us through this fire, and yeah we came up short, but we love him and he didn't.

00:34:55
Speaker 3: So a good point.

00:34:57
Speaker 1: So, Baltimore, we don't know what's going to happen. There's been some reporting that coordinator there could be changes. I think the Harbaugh status is up in the air until totally confirmed. Otherwise, clearly the odds are that he is going to stay, but they said on the pregame shows. Ian rap Upport on the NFL Network said that they were going to have a conversation after the season, and they haven't had that conversation yet or they're having it right now, and so we'll see. So in the safe for now category, Baltimore Tampa looks just safe safe. It's not like they released a statement. But Todd Bowles did a press conference on Monday, business as usual. Now some teams have let their coaches do press conferences on Monday and made a change. The Bucks pretty famously made a firing I think two weeks after the season when John Gruden got fired, So you never know, but he did his press conference. All the reporting around the Jets say that Aaron Glenn is going to be safe, and Miami still employs Mike McDaniel. They will not be employing to a tongue of iloa, I don't think for very long. Was asked by three local reporters, including one from the Miami Herald, on Monday, about whether he would want a fresh start next season, and he said a fresh start would be dope. So one more for Tua, the most honest man in front of a microphone, sometimes to his detriment for the twenty twenty five season, although this one I'm fine with him just being real with it.

00:36:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, he tagged that with thought would be good with it, which like just tells me, get me out of here. And I think that's why Mike McDaniels still employed. I think we know who the Dolphins have chosen in this apparent rift, and it's the coach, not the quarterback. Interesting to see what kind of market develops for him. Tougher to move that contract post June first trade is a little bit easier. Cutting is almost not really doable unless you want to eat the cap hit like the Broncos did with Russell Wilson. And also, where do you go from there? I mean, Quinn Yewers is not the future. He had a nice game and a half kind of he had it, also had an ugly game, But that's where the Dolphins are right now. You know, honestly, Greg, this is crazy. But we talked about Kyler earlier. I could see a world in which the Dolphins somehow acquire Kyler Murray and pair him with Mike McDaniel and it would be weird. And I'm signing up for it because I like weird stuff in football.

00:37:26
Speaker 3: Why not?

00:37:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see that. You could see Malik Willis. There's a few quarterbacks that'll shake overs. I think Aaron Rodgers is gonna get a job next year. I think he's gonna want to play. That's not really the fit that I would look for. So we'll see. There's a sneaky amount of like one B quarterback options available this offseason. We'll see if Cliff Kingsbury is available. Diana Rassinia the Athletic and indicated maybe like a rift between Kingsbury and the front office of how they were doing things. It just was interesting to hear jayde Daniels on Monday really go to back for Cliff Kingsbury, how much Cliff Kingsbury means to him. And some other players did as well. So it's gotten to the point where they're responding in public. That's just one situation to watch before we wrap up here, Shook, it's time for delivering results presented by Uber Eat. When football makes you hungry, order Uber Eat. So cam Ward he's our guy for who delivered, not the fact that he's coming off of an injury, but that he delivered some good news on Monday, Nick his shoulder will not require surgery, and ultimately I think he delivered a really good rookie season all things considered around him, I don't feel any lower on him after his rookie season than I did before. I think he's going to be fun and I just want to see what coach he has next to help him in his development.

00:38:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, not necessarily parallel comparisons here between Caleb Williams and cam Ward, but I could see a similar jump with the right coach in year two.

00:39:00
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty good comparison. I mean, there are big differences. There are differences, but I.

00:39:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are differences in terms.

00:39:06
Speaker 1: Of the area that they occupied as rookies. It makes sense to me.

00:39:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's questions to answer there. There obviously don't have as much talented receiver as the Bears did in Caleb's first and now second year. But I like what they developed with Jamary Decay and elk Iomanor and like this.

00:39:23
Speaker 3: Group is they got.

00:39:24
Speaker 2: They became a fun team to watch, even though they weren't very good down the stretch. They weren't this dreadful operation that you dreaded watching every week. They were, they were funded, and a.

00:39:31
Speaker 3: Lot of it had to do with cam Ward.

00:39:33
Speaker 2: So I think they probably should feel pretty good about what they got out of their first overall pick and continue to trust the process.

00:39:38
Speaker 3: But they got to nail the coach.

00:39:40
Speaker 2: They got to nail the coaching higher, and that's the biggest thing on the checklist for them right now to make sure that Cam's development continues. But it's good that he is, you know, taking on a leadership role within this franchise already, because he already said weeks ago that he wanted to be involved in the hiring process, So that should make it potentially a little bit easier to find the right fit for.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: Him, and he will. We'll still have to rehab and get that shoulder healthy, but the fact that it won't require surgery means I think it'll be more like weeks into a couple months instead of an entire offseason in terms of his recovery. Hopefully that goes well and he doesn't eventually need the surgery that was delivering results presented by Uber Eat. When football makes you hungry, get game day deals on Uber eat, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL Order. Now, speaking of the Titans, just a few quick interview updates on their list, according to various reports, lou Anarumo, the Colts defensive coordinator, the Broncos defensive coordinator Vance Joseph, both Chiefs coordinators, Matt Naggi, who's a coaching free agent his contract is up, and defensive coordinator Steve Spagnolo. An item that occurred in the last handful of days that we haven't mentioned on the show is that the Titans elevated their GM Mike Borganzi within the organization and essentially demoted this other guy, Chad Brinker, which we have talked about on the show a few times. It was nebulous what he did, sort of like president football operations. But it's just funny because literally, the Titans have changed their power structure every off season, sometimes twice a year, for about five years straight. So a new guy's in charge, and as it pertains to this head coaching search, the new guy's from Kansas City. I mean, he's been there in the building for a year, but he comes from the Chiefs. So if they hire Matt Naggy or Steve Spagnolo, which I would, I would more support. It's hard to get too excited about Matt Naggy.

00:41:47
Speaker 3: It's hard. I mean, I don't know, man, I feel like.

00:41:49
Speaker 2: Like Spags is like a great coordinator, hasn't been a head coach in a long time. But both are retreads, right, So it's like, how excited can you get about a retreads? Am?

00:41:58
Speaker 1: I just j You know, our buddy Ali Connolly, he thinks was prougorated and historically retreads sometimes do work, but you just you got to pick the right one, and all those seems like he'd have a chance. You know, he knows a lot of people in the league. He's still a good scheme coach, which I love. I love a coach that can give you a schematic advantage. I've listened to Chris Long's podcast. Who played under him in Saint Louis. No one was winning that situation and they all played well for him and and they liked him. That was one of the worst run organizations you could possibly have. And so I don't know, I'd be open to Steve.

00:42:36
Speaker 3: Steve Spegnell give Belichick was a retread. Pete Carroll was technically a retread with the Stinton College. I mean, we've had a number of successful retreads. You're right, And in a.

00:42:46
Speaker 2: Coaching market like this in which there is no ascending young coordinator that is a slam dunk, like a Ben Johnson for example, even a Liam Cohen who exceeded my expectations, maybe the retread. It's the perfect time for one.

00:42:59
Speaker 3: We'll see.

00:43:00
Speaker 1: We'll see six openings now in terms of the head coaching. In terms of the GM, I think there's only two. Is that right? Because the Giants are keeping Joe Shane. They officially announced that. I don't know if they've released the statement on it before, but it's kind of funny that at the end of every season they have to make a statement that Joe Shane still has his job. Like that's not a great size. It's like, oh, it's already, I just used the one from last year, you.

00:43:32
Speaker 2: Know, just recycling important. It's got to be in your email history somewhere. Just pull it back out and change the dates. Yeah, I mean looked with this. There's two schools of thought here, which is he's probably overstated as welcome and if you want to make a change for a change's sake, then it includes him. But also, like you want to find wins, and you believe in Jackson Dart and this past draft and the defense that I think is he's constructed fairly well.

00:44:00
Speaker 3: An offense that showed some potential.

00:44:01
Speaker 2: Then yeah, you keep in I don't know, it feels like we're going to do this again next year. It does, but it is the offseason of keep the GM fire the coach that's definitely been determined.

00:44:11
Speaker 1: It sets up a very similar scenario and this is true of the Browns too to what just happened with Atlanta with Terry Foon. I think Radee Morris paid for the sins of Terry fin yep, because I think Rahee Morris would have been given at least one more year get to year three. The first two years weren't that bad, but because the GM was on his fifth year and had a terrible record, then basically the coach gets thrown out with him. So whoever this next Giants coach is is going to be on a short leash or Shane'll be on a short least. He's twenty two, forty five and one Shane since taking over. That's pretty bad. And that includes the first year where he inherited most of the best players from Dave Gettleman in the last three years, he's thirteen and thirty eight. I mean, you're entering year five, You're coming off two seasons like the ones they had. Those types of guys don't usually get to keep having chances, but they do have a good nucleus. I do think this is kind of the sneaky best job if it wasn't for Joe Shane, because I do like this is Apple Carter and Jackson Dart and Andrew Thomas and Malik Neighbors. There are players here, Brian.

00:45:18
Speaker 2: This is where I would like to see Kevin's fancy land a head coaching job. I think it makes the most sense. I would love to see what he could do with Jackson Dart. I think there are elements of Baker Mayfield to Jackson Dart that worked for Stefanski in Cleveland that could work in New York. And he has plenty of head coaching experience, so he's probably been seasoned enough to be able to deal with the pressure that comes with coaching in New York because he's already robotic, so he's not going to feed into the you know, drama that is pervasive with the New York football franchises, So I think that would be the best fit.

00:45:45
Speaker 3: But how does he work with Joe Shane.

00:45:47
Speaker 1: We'll see, And Shane really emphasized in his press conference today leadership. We need leadership more than anything. And it's like, I don't know, is he talking about Stefanski, Is he talking about Harbaugh? If Harbor or Shook loose? I think I think they would love a coach like that or a Mike Tomlin.

00:46:04
Speaker 2: But I don't think is leadership like code for experience, like I thus one somewhere else?

00:46:10
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think so that That was how I took it. And man, no media group hates a GM more than the Giants media group hats man. The questions for him, who are brutal. They're like, why are you so bad at your job? That wasn't barely the question, but essentially the subtext of every single question. Final items, and we'll say goodbye. The Rams expect Quentin Lake and DeVante Adams back this week. Good news for them. The forty nine ers are going to be without Tatum Bethune, their linebacker for the rest of the postseason. That's a big loss for them at a banged up position. They're not sure about their other usual starter De Winters either, so they're banged up right now. And the Dolphins GM interviews that I just throw some of the names out there. The Eagles assistant Alec Hallaby, who were a fan of here, Rams assistant GM, John McKay. I think it's going to be an interesting name to track another McKay out there, Rich McKay, who's long been in charge of the Falcons in some form another and actually got moved to a different part of the Arthur Blank Empire. He wasn't fired, but he kind of has moved off the Falcons. That was part of the changes in Atlanta. He was one of them. But the overarching takeaway from these interviews was just that three of the six were from San Francisco, where they worked with Mike McDaniel. So I don't know if you want to connect the dots.

00:47:41
Speaker 3: I think you're properly reading the tea leaves, Greg.

00:47:43
Speaker 2: I believe we have a course that the Dolphins are going to follow in the coming weeks and months.

00:47:50
Speaker 1: Not a crazy one. I don't mind seeing Mike McDaniel get another shot. He does what I say I like the best, which is provide a schematic advantage except for when they're in third or fourth and short, in which according to I think it was Chase Kaufman. I hope I'm getting the right account had some numbers on Blue Sky that they are the worst team in the NFL on a third and short and fourth and short situation since McDaniel got there. It is really noticeable when you watch them week after week.

00:48:18
Speaker 2: But I mean when you're a team that plays a lot of perimeter based offense, that can be an issue short yardage.

00:48:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tyreek Hill had some ideas for that. He was like, stop running eight chan. Yeah, eight chan is not the problem, Tyreek. All right, we have a lot to go through in the offseason. We're just getting started. If there's any other coaching firings or news, we will hit that on Tuesday. Chris, let's hit the music. Are we going to keep this under fifty minutes? I said we'd be around forty. We did. Okay, We're gonna be back on Tuesday. Colleen Wolf and Jordan Rodrigue and I finally reading those holiday cards that you guys sent us. We're also going to pick our award winners. In any other extra news that happens, look for us in the feats see