Not Guilty, "Okurrr!": Cardi B’s Case Breakdown with Eboni K Williams

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode we recap reality television from the Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset, in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well. Hey, rain drops on today's episode Reality with the King, I am back with Ebie k Williams, the legal ego, easy Expert, all the things.

00:00:47
Speaker 2: She has been such a source of information for us. And listen, this trial we are going to talk about, in addition to the verdict that was reached is a pop culture sensation because because it involved a hip hop sensation and a pop star and all the things by the name of Carti B and Ebony is gonna break down the case with us because this has been like eight years in the making or seven years maybe.

00:01:16
Speaker 3: Yeah it was this so happened in two thy twenty I think or twenty nineteen and then yeah, fou and now we finally five six years later, we finally have a judgment.

00:01:28
Speaker 4: Which is insane.

00:01:30
Speaker 2: So I did not know Carti even had to go to trial for something like this. So Ebany, can you explain to us exactly what happened, because one thing I would like to say is this Carti b was on trial for an incident that occurred in twenty eighteen. She was accused of assaulting a security guard. And this case, like we said, finally happened seven years later.

00:02:05
Speaker 4: Abony, what are the details, honey?

00:02:07
Speaker 5: So so much to go into.

00:02:08
Speaker 3: So I want to start with the framing of what this trial was and what it wasn't. Carlos, So let's be clear, right drops, this was not a criminal trial. There was nothing criminal at stake, Okay. So this was the police officers weren't involved, none of that. This is what we call a civil matter, okay. So this goes back to all my legal legals law students, pera legals legal assistant. This is a torts claim, okay, which is a class we take. Don't you just love going to law school with abide k Williams.

00:02:39
Speaker 4: You don't obsessed with you?

00:02:42
Speaker 5: This is just a time for back to school, Carlos.

00:02:46
Speaker 4: Look about outfit.

00:02:48
Speaker 3: I let's say you got your little back to school polo on. Yeah, we're not gonna do the same. So yes, So this is a tort, which we learned about our very first year of law school. Torts can also be crimes, So this.

00:03:02
Speaker 5: Is where it could be confusing.

00:03:03
Speaker 3: Right, So when you normally hear assault and battery, we normally think of the criminal justice system, right, we think about somebody getting arrested and potentially going to jail or probation for committing an assault or battery, a harmful touching of another. Right, But then there's a torte version of all of those same things, Carlos. So we know in this case, Cartie was on trial for allegations that she committed tortes, which are civil wrongs. That's what a tort is, a civil wrong. They can include and did in this case include assault, battery, emotional infliction of emotional intentional infliction rather of emotional distress, also negligence and all kinds of things.

00:03:47
Speaker 4: And so the judge or.

00:03:50
Speaker 3: Jury in this matter, in this case it was a jury gets to decide there's not a guilt or innocence.

00:03:55
Speaker 5: That's something else I want to clear up.

00:03:56
Speaker 3: So she was never going to be found guilty, and she was never going to be found not guilty because that doesn't apply to civil cases.

00:04:04
Speaker 5: You're either found liable or not liable.

00:04:08
Speaker 3: This is important difference, Carlos, because it's a different burden of proof when we're talking about criminal matters where somebody must be found guilty.

00:04:16
Speaker 5: I know you know this. The standard of proof is what beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:04:20
Speaker 3: So that means it needs to be proven at a very high likelihood, more reasonable than not that you absolutely, in fact not more reasonable than that. Excuse me, I mispoke ray drops beyond a reasonable doubt. So you have to be so thought to be guilty by the evidence, by the testimony by the forensics, that no reasonable doubt can exist to your guilt.

00:04:42
Speaker 5: Period.

00:04:42
Speaker 3: That's the bar, and it's that high, Carlos, because people's lives are on the line, jail execution in some states. That's a high bar. Totally different standard of proof in a civil matter. You only have to be believed to be responsible for the things you're accused of. We call it fifty one percent more reasonable than not, more probable than not that you did it. So that's why a lot of times rain drops you'll see people bring a civil case instead of a criminal case, right because they could be argued, madam security guard, if you were so injured and so distressed and so traumatized by this so called scar and finger nail cut or what have you, why not call the cops, Why not have Cardio arrested? Why not, you know, pursue it in a criminal court? That's what oftentimes people say.

00:05:33
Speaker 5: Right.

00:05:34
Speaker 3: Oftentimes, Carlos is not pursued criminally because there's not enough evidence. There's not enough to reach that high burden of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt. So you bring that burden of proof down to more probable than not, and we find ourselves in civil court.

00:05:49
Speaker 5: Does that make sense?

00:05:51
Speaker 4: No, it makes a lot of sense.

00:05:52
Speaker 2: Wow, Because the thing that was so confusing to me, which is why I'm glad you cleared it up, is although the former security guard alleged that Cardi b spat on her, scratched her nose with a fingernail doing a verbal altercation, this wasn't a criminal.

00:06:14
Speaker 4: Trial.

00:06:14
Speaker 2: So your breakdown is great because we're now able to really understand exactly why this case was even happening. So the woman, the former security guard, she decided like you said, to sue Cardi b for this alleged altercation not criminal but civil.

00:06:39
Speaker 4: She sued her for twenty four.

00:06:42
Speaker 2: Million, Okay, she sued her for twenty four million dollars for again rain drops, for allegedly saying for Carti allegedly spitting on her her nose with a fingernail.

00:07:02
Speaker 4: Talk to us about this, and why would any lawyer.

00:07:10
Speaker 2: Agree to take on the case a of this magnitude or lack thereof magnitude.

00:07:17
Speaker 4: But also to say, twenty four million dollars seems like the right number for this.

00:07:22
Speaker 3: It's laughable, right, So I have to say for me, and this is my actual legal opinion here, Carlos, not my personal opinion. I think this case was over before it started because of that number. Knowing no other facts, right, knowing no other facts, whether there's going to be somebody to testify to them seeing Cardi do this or not do this, knowing no other facts, the minute you have the audacity and really the willful kind of bad intention as an attorney to bow this on behalf of your client in civil court. And the most egregious harm you can sign eight is the being spit upon and a three inch fingernail laceration. And you talking about twenty four million. You've undermined your own credibility just in the filing of the complaint.

00:08:15
Speaker 5: See what I'm saying.

00:08:15
Speaker 3: Now, let me tell you how it could have gone different. I'm not saying Cardi would have been found liable or that she should have been I'm just saying how it could have played out with more of an opportunity for the plaintiff here, the security guard, to have a better outcome that she was seeking. You, and I believe this is true in the state of Georgia. In most states, when you follow a lawsuit like this, Carlos, you do need to put some number on the table. They normally require you to put some number. You can't just say whatever the jury thinks, but you can do it in a less much less aggressive way. You can say, and the plaintiff seeks in excess of ten thousand dollars of damages, and that can be up to millions, but we're putting in a minimum threshold of ten thousand dollars, a minimum threshold of one thousand dollars.

00:09:02
Speaker 5: You see what I'm saying.

00:09:03
Speaker 3: And because that threshold, DIC takes what type of court you might be in So I think had this case been filed, this lawsuit been filed at the onset, Carlos saying, same complaint, same facts, same allegations, and the relief we seek your honor is in excess of ten thousand dollars. Let us have our day in court now. I'm willing to hear you out, and I'm willing to believe that there could be some truthfulness to what you're going to put before this court. But when you come in this court talking about a spat upon in a three inch nail laceration each of about twenty four million dollars, it reads like you're operating in bad faith from day one. Reads it's giving scam, it's giving extortion, it's giving payday, and it's giving bad faith again and that's a legal term. It's giving that you, the client, you and your client it are operating in bad faith. And I'm already looking at all the facts and evidence that you're putting before me from that lens, that that landing.

00:10:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh baby, it's a jet blue holiday.

00:10:16
Speaker 4: Right right right? What if the kids saying Jetsu holiday.

00:10:22
Speaker 2: This is reality with the king, and I'm Carlos King let's get back into the show. It makes so much sense. So what Ebany is saying is or her legal opinion. The fact that due to an alleged three inch laceration from Carti's nails, that allegedly happened, and to say that it was worked twenty four million is interesting too, because what the security guard said under oath is that this incident traumatized her and that it required a cosmetic procedure because of the scarring from the alleged assault. She also said that she lost her job over the incident as well. What's so fascinating about that is, let's just say, for the sake of an argument, right, let's say this did happen. Let's say that someone of Carniv's stature, who is worth millions and millions and millions of dollars, did actually make contact with anybody, did actually spit on somebody, did actually you.

00:11:37
Speaker 4: Know, scratch her scratch her face with the nail. Based on your.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: Legal expertise, if this really did happen, it's twenty four million dollars still an amount that should be awarded to somebody dealing with that.

00:11:56
Speaker 4: Plus a cosmetic procedure. So here's the.

00:11:59
Speaker 3: Good news, Carlo. We don't even have to speculate about it. The answer is, of course, that's totally irrational, and we have a mechanism in the law that allows for us to determine what is rational. I love this, I love doing this with you. It is just so nostalgic for me to go back into my early tutelage as a young legal scholar and realize when I learned these things for the first time. Seriously so again. First year in law school we get told about the concept of a quantum assessment of damages. Okay, there's all yes, there are books. There are now I'm talking about That's how dated myself talking about books electronic documented oh child, But yes, now there are electronic documents and access points and all kinds of things where you can look this up and say hey. And there are all kinds of things that we take into consideration, Carlos King. We put on the table and we come up with a reasonable figure. They include the following the actual medical bills. So like you say, let's say this actually happened. Let's say you're which means you're gonna have a literal receipt, ma'am of what the cosmetic surgeon, cost of what your primary care visits, cost of what your medications cost.

00:13:22
Speaker 5: You see, I'm saying all of that.

00:13:23
Speaker 3: We're gonna add all your bandages and dressings, your nearest foreign ship.

00:13:27
Speaker 5: I don't add it all up. Put it all on.

00:13:30
Speaker 3: The table, Carlos. Now this is the nickel and dime lawyer in me, coming out girl play. You've got a band a bitch, Put it on the table. Skin flash color that's more expensive.

00:13:42
Speaker 5: Put it on the town. Okay, So that's after.

00:13:50
Speaker 2: So were not half a bad day a beauty uh coloration, makeup child?

00:13:56
Speaker 4: Go ahead, boom.

00:13:57
Speaker 3: So that's one column of expense, right, actual medical expenses. Now, let's say you did lose your job behind this, Okay, ma'am, respectfully, let's go on the high end. You're doing private security for an upscale building of this magnitude. Let's just say she made two to twenty five a year. Let's just say that. Okay, so we're gonna put that on the tail. Then let's say you're traumatized. Let's say you gotta see your therapist for more frequent basis. We're gonna run that up at best at best at best, at best three hundred and fifty thousand dollars four hundred thousand dollars at best. So now that you're talking about anything over a half a million. And that's, by the way, just so you know, when we come up with these numbers, Carlos, we add everything we can conceive of you. That's why I'm being funny, but I'm being kind of This is really how it goes. You stretch the limits of possibility to bring all future medical Let's say the scar gets infected and you got to cut the thing back.

00:15:00
Speaker 5: So you put all that.

00:15:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is how we do. This is what we do in the war room, Carlos. Those of us lawyers go back to Scandal. You know how they had the war room with the gladiators. Same thing, every case, every case we handled this way. A good lawyer, you conceive of the biggest number you could conceive of, and then you multiply it by three. Why three for the damages themselves, the attorney, the third I'm gonna take as the lawyer, and then the third for the taxes. Because you're still gonna get taxed on any settlement that you get or any damages that you received, you get your taxes taxable income not not out of ten times. Oh yes, yeah, great jumps learning today, baby, okay.

00:15:45
Speaker 2: So yeah so so. But but but to stop you there, because I'm just so fascinated by this. The lawyer, whatever the judgment is, for the amount at the end of the day, just so we you know, for future references, the attorney, okay, does the law firm get a third or the attorney him or herself get the third of the thorough.

00:16:07
Speaker 3: Which could just be if I'm so over, if it's the law offices of ebid K Williams, ebidy K Williams gets that third. If it's Carlos King and Associates and you've got associates, the firm gets the third and then you pay, because that's how the legal partnership works. But the point is, one third of whatever the plane of gets goes to legal fees, period, because that's and that's the nature of a standard contingency agreement. One third goes to lawyers, one third goes to Uncle Sam, and the client gets what's left. And you want to make sure that number is high enough, Carlos to where there can be some real compensation. That's that's how we're thinking of this so again, I just put everything from the nearest foreign to the surgery, to the lost wages, to the therapy bills. I put it all on the table, and I couldn't get to more than three four hundred thousand.

00:16:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then it's times the three.

00:17:01
Speaker 3: And again, at best, you're you're asking four million bucks, maybe maybe a million point two five at best. So when you start talking about twenty four million dollars for even the most astronomical expansion of damages, you're operating in bad faith from a from a legal.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: Perspective, one of the things that I do want to talk to you about was the swort of behavior from the prosecution. The lawyer who cross examined Cardi B on the stand. A lot of people felt that his behavior as a lawyer was very negative. Some was the unprofessional allegedly, some people have said it was inappropriate. He asked her a series of questions about, you know, whether or not the woman in question who allegedly got assaulted, about her how big she was. He asked Party B about her raise. He asked Cardi B. What and now she's wearing a wig today? Her hair was sure yesterday. It seemed like this was a Saturday Night Live parody on Scandal, right, it didn't seem believable. And Cardi b who's a personality, gave the audience and the lawyer what he wanted, which was memes, reactions and everything else. What is your take on the behavior of this lawyer did Is this somebody that you think knew that.

00:18:33
Speaker 4: He had a tough case to present?

00:18:36
Speaker 5: So a few things.

00:18:37
Speaker 3: Number One, Carti is a pro and I'm talking to the king of reality TV. At least any of us forget before she was a Grammy Award winning artist. She was a reality TV star, which means she was a brilliant one at that, which means she is a what expert storyteller?

00:18:55
Speaker 4: Right?

00:18:57
Speaker 5: And so much of what we do in the courtroom, Carlos.

00:19:01
Speaker 3: So much of who wins and loses in the court of law, it's about who tells a better story. I'm not saying it should be that way. I'm saying that is what it is. And so I think that this was an attorney who failed to do his due diligence, and I mean that both in the legal and cultural sense, didn't know who he was dealing with. From a Carti is as media trained as media savvy, and all of this is this.

00:19:30
Speaker 5: Is just what the court of law is.

00:19:33
Speaker 3: In many ways, Carlos King is just an amplification or even a condensation rather of public opinion of the court of public opinion. So you just scale that down on an intimate level and you've got an actual court of law. Carti is not going to be any less effective on that stage. Pun intended that she's going to be as effective when the cameras are up for love and hip hop than when the cameras are off for the grand same thing, same skill set. This case, this trial called on the same skill set that Cardi B has been perfecting from her YouTube days.

00:20:09
Speaker 5: So we're talking about twenty years, see what I'm saying.

00:20:12
Speaker 4: So that's what I do.

00:20:13
Speaker 5: I think this.

00:20:14
Speaker 3: Attorney was entirely out of his league, failed to properly educate himself on the savvy and the skill set and the brilliance of what this witness, this defense witness, was going to bring to this cross and ended up doing themselves tremendous disfavor. Like you said, only made themselves as the attorney look unprepared, inadequate, caught off guard, and kind of having to stand in your own shit. You made a shit sound week that you intended to deliver to the defendant, Cardi B and your ass had to eat it. That's what happened in this trial, from my opinion, and one of the first things we learned in law school calls king when your whether you're on direct exam you're asking the questions first, or you're on cross exam, as we saw with Kurty and this lawyer, never ever, never, ever, ever, ever ever in your life ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

00:21:15
Speaker 4: Never. Yes, I even knew that watching Gather Law in Order LA Law. Like, sorry, I'm screaming, but yeah, it's.

00:21:23
Speaker 3: True because it's triggering what you know, what what what is culturally ingrained in us to know about how these trial lawyer roles go. And so you forgot the first The first thing must be first, Carlos, and you forgot the first thing never, and that's why you wound up surprising yourself. So no, I think Cardi gets all the credit here. She was absolutely brilliant on that witness fan, the.

00:21:50
Speaker 5: All of it. It was all brilliant.

00:21:54
Speaker 3: And I also just kind of want to say substantively, she really came from a strong argument point Cardi. I'm saying because I and any woman on that jury, mostly especially any that have carried and delivered a baby know just how vulnerable and delicate that moment is.

00:22:20
Speaker 5: Less you, uh baby libity.

00:22:22
Speaker 3: They know how delicate and vulnerable that moment is, Carlos, when you are pregnant with your first child, especially your first child, any child, but your first child, as Cardi was in twenty eighteen, your huge celebrity, your global phenomenon. So you do what you're supposed to do, which is exercise all of your assets of protection and privacy. The medical facility cooperates with you, shuts the whole place down, so you could have that privacy and respect the tenderness of your early trimesters of pregnancy, which we all know, Carlos, kN and tell that baby is at least I want to say, it's twenty seven weeks twenty maybe it's twenty two weeks, but closer to twenty seven weeks.

00:23:07
Speaker 5: What we call having viability of life outside of the uterus.

00:23:12
Speaker 3: I can't explain to you how delicate that moment deals as somebody who's carrying their child, because I remember it like it was yesterday, and I am, as the great nan Leak says, known, not necessarily famous, but I am known.

00:23:29
Speaker 5: Thank you, Nimi. So as a.

00:23:32
Speaker 4: Numb I got tip of this.

00:23:36
Speaker 5: Oh my God, shout out to miss Leaks. I appreciate being known for some people. I'm serious, child, So.

00:23:45
Speaker 3: Anyway, as somebody known, Carlos, stay with me. Now what I was in my early stages of pregnancy. I certainly wasn't going to have the hospital or the facility shut down for me, but I, you know, have a little baseball cap on, trying to keep it low key because you know, twelve thirteen weeks pregnant, keep it cute wanted. Of course, you know, my pregnancy wasn't known until I was about to pop, and that was by designed You and I discussed it. You were one of the first people to know I was with child.

00:24:15
Speaker 4: Ch'a.

00:24:16
Speaker 3: I took my little black ass in that in my OB's office, trying to be incog negro.

00:24:22
Speaker 5: Here comes somebody y you own the breakfast.

00:24:26
Speaker 3: Club, and then they walked away and then turned around and said congratulations.

00:24:32
Speaker 5: Now it was sweet. But when I tell you, my heart.

00:24:36
Speaker 4: Saint, my heart saint just now and I'm not pregnant. Oh my god.

00:24:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, because now people can know. Now the information is not contained. Now anybody could do anything with it, and even if nobody even means you any ill will like the security guard said, oh I just got excited and I did it. Ain't nobody ask you all that. What you need to know is that it still a violation. It's still a violation, and it's a violation such that it becomes totally understandable and reasonable that Cardi would have a reaction to that that would be hostile. So before we get to the did she lay her hands on the woman or not? Did she actually spit and make physical contact with the women or not? The premise is set up, Carlos, so that Carti in this circumstance is extraordinarily sympathetic.

00:25:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And listen, everything you're saying makes a lot of sense.

00:25:35
Speaker 4: It was a four day trial.

00:25:37
Speaker 2: The jury deliberate, Sorry, the jury deliberated for less than one hour.

00:25:42
Speaker 5: Okay, just know exactly what type of time they were.

00:25:45
Speaker 4: On that was.

00:25:46
Speaker 2: That was obvious what the outcome is going to be. But Ebony a question for you. While the deliberation was happening, Cardi b went outside and she was confronted by a paparazzo who asked her, Look, you're pregnant.

00:26:04
Speaker 4: Is the baby, offset is the step fan? What's going on?

00:26:07
Speaker 2: Cardi B took a marker that was from somebody and threw it at this paparazzo and said, respect women pretty much, you know, gave him, you know, some some tongue lashing, and went about her business. A lot of people are like, Carti B. You are on trial ful assault, Why would you do this? Talk to me about that? Because the prosecutor tried to tell the judge what happened outside, and the judge wasn't here for it.

00:26:36
Speaker 4: But it did raise the question ebidy K Williams, and I did want to.

00:26:39
Speaker 2: Ask you if you were Carti's client and you saw her do that, would that make you nervous in the moment?

00:26:48
Speaker 5: So a few things.

00:26:49
Speaker 3: If I were Carti's attorney, I would advise my beloved client, miss Cardi B, to not throw things, and let's keep our hands to ourselves, and let's not even to the point you're alluding to. Carlos gives the impression that we even have violent tendencies, but people are human, and Carti gets the benefit of being so well known to where people generally can put in context her reactiveness. So if you or I Carlos were somewhere and we throw a pin at somebody, I think that would raise eyebrows because people don't know us necessarily to be hyper reactive. They don't have a context for us in that way. So that would be like, wow, if you were bold enough to throw a pin into a crowd of folks with the cameras running, what are you like behind closed doors?

00:27:47
Speaker 5: Carti gets the benefit of.

00:27:48
Speaker 3: Us having a pretty damn good idea as to what she might be like in a more closed door setting. She is impulsive, she is reactive, So do you see I'm saying it's a nuanced point, but I think it's an important one that she actually gets. I would be less concerned if Carti be as my client did that, then I would be concerned if you were I did that.

00:28:11
Speaker 4: I do want to ask you this.

00:28:12
Speaker 2: So Carti, the after she was found not liable for this particular situation, she did go back outside and spoke about what happened. One of the things she said that I do want to talk to you about because although you're not famous, you are known, we love you. Epany has the best. I really listen, I'm gonna sidetrack a little bit. I really hope that you guys have y'all told me personally. But I love the fact that y'all get to see my friend Ebony her glory because she has.

00:28:44
Speaker 4: A sense of humor.

00:28:46
Speaker 2: She I know, y'all, I know some of y'all thinks she's so serious whatever, Epany is a foot That I get to show my friend in this light means the world to me because she is buddy af to be.

00:29:01
Speaker 4: But okay, Carti B.

00:29:04
Speaker 2: After she was filed not libel, she thanks her supporters. She called the lawsuit frivolous, but she also said this, and you are a public figure, and I want to get your thoughts on this.

00:29:15
Speaker 4: You are famous and you are a lawyer.

00:29:18
Speaker 2: Cardi B emphasized that she would not settle with anybody because she's a celebrity, and she warned people against filing frivolous lawsuits against them, noting that she works hard for her money and that she will countersuit if this happens again.

00:29:39
Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on that?

00:29:41
Speaker 2: Because some celebrities do feel like because I'm famous for all of the purposes. I have some money that people are going to file frivolous lawsuits that has no bearings, no truth in it, just because they want a payday. Do you think couch assuming will scare these people away? Yes?

00:30:06
Speaker 5: And also, first of all, I love that Cartis said this.

00:30:09
Speaker 3: I love that she said this, and I love that she said this in this moment immediately following this verdict that was so favorable to her. And let's be clear, Carti's has some momentum behind fuck around and find out with Cardi b baby when it comes to this court thing better as Tasha Kay very seriously, and she is doing what most celebrities in her position Carlos King will not do, which is make the time. Carti said, period, Die, I'm going to make the time to play exactly the games y'all want to play, meaning I'm going to come to court, I'm going to put on my wig, my outfit, I'm gonna raise my hand on the Bible, I'm gonna testify. I'm going to do the thing that y'all are counting on me not doing, which is half legal. Follow through same thing with Tasha Ka all this, most people would have got that verdict, multi million dollar verdict around Tasha k owing her and went on with their not went on with their business. Now, Cardi Carti's where's where's the updated hearing so we can find out her current financial status? And she's on it like clockwork every six months because she actually it is to collect. Oh that's okay, Oh hold on one, saying Carlos.

00:31:25
Speaker 5: Last you get this?

00:31:27
Speaker 4: Okay, No, it takes time.

00:31:28
Speaker 3: Not should have broke the good dip teeth baby god damn, like mama got that much grigy. So yes, I love that Curti did this, Carlos, because this sends a message that Carti is not the one to be played with.

00:31:49
Speaker 5: And she said it flat out.

00:31:50
Speaker 4: Uh.

00:31:50
Speaker 3: We saw similar messaging from jay Z with Busby, you know, but he said, not only am I not going to settle, I'm actually going to come for you and your ability to practice law in these cases. So I think whether it's a counter suit, whether it is challenging the other sides lawyers around their credibility to practice, I think that type of punitive counteraction is very important because it sends a message, Carlos that they are not sitting ducks to just wait and be targeted for payouts, you know, and I think it's very important and I respect it, you know, like Carti said, And whether she works so hard for it or not, it's her money period. It's her money period. People are not entitled to in contrary to popular belief, and it is long as enough celebrities Carlos are willing to not make the time to go to court, not make the time to file the counterclaim, not make the time to put on their clothes and go down to the courthouse and testify in their own defense on their own behalf, and they feel that it is easier and quicher to just write the check, which is their prerogative.

00:33:04
Speaker 4: But you will.

00:33:05
Speaker 3: Continue to see a cycle of civilians that see that as a right opportunity for a quick payday, and some will succeed. From what Cardi B said clearly and loudly today is that she will not be the ATM. So you're gonna have to get somebody else to do it, because Cardi B is not in the business of doing quick, fast, easy paydays.

00:33:26
Speaker 5: And I respect her greatly for it.

00:33:29
Speaker 2: Last question for you, Ebanie, what advice do you give public figures, celebrities or a person who has means when they are confronted with a situation where they feel like they may have to defend themselves but also do not want to be in a situation where they can get sued. And what some people again are calling a frivolous case. What avice do you get people? Should they ignore and move on? Should they have bodyguards with them? What do you think?

00:33:56
Speaker 5: This is a tough call.

00:33:57
Speaker 3: It's a personal call, right, you know, if you can afford the guard situation, I think that takes care of a lot of it. Had Cardi had her own kind of security with her, had Cardi had her own personal security with her that day, I'm certain that person would have been able to fend off this security of woman and her claims and maybe wouldn't have gotten to this. But two things to that point, though he agrees with you, yes, something to say, don't she goodness, She's like, maybe I want to be a security guard.

00:34:30
Speaker 5: I don't know, Chia, wait wait on it.

00:34:32
Speaker 3: But but here's where I'm careful about. Here's where I'm careful Carlos about advocating for that as the answer A that's an extraordinarily that is an extraordinarily expensive endeavor to constantly have security. So a that is an extraordinarily expensive endeavor to constantly have paid security with you twenty four to seven around the I don't care who you are. And secondly, I think that's that's a precedent that if you're if you're wealthy and or famous, that you somehow must bear the constant burden of never being able to have any type of expectation of privacy. And I simply don't believe that. I simply don't believe that, Carlos. I get that that people are going to be interested in your life. That is part of the price that any of us pay that do our lives in a public fashion. But I don't believe that the price has to be so exorbitantly high simply because one has a talent or a gift or something to offer to the public that now you must sacrifice any sense of autonomy and ability to be an individual with privacy and protection. So and again, again, it's personal and it's different in every case. I could see where somebody like Beyonce it makes more sense for her to.

00:35:49
Speaker 5: Have a Julius at all times.

00:35:51
Speaker 3: But I could see, you know, I live in New York City, you know, you've lived here, You live in Atlanta, you live in la you live in Miami. You know you we see all the and I'm not talking about just known figures. I'm talking about a listers on the train, walking down the street, walking to Whole Foods, traded, Joe's getting a smoothie, and they get to do that. So my advice would be, figure out how important it is to maintain some level of autonomy and privacy and consistently that's a key word. Consistently. Move according to that, move according to that. When it comes to engaging directly with people, whether it's paparazzi or just nosy people in public, I think you got to really kind of figure out how far you're willing to go around that. I personally don't advise a lot of direct contact and engagement. It's one of the things I love about New York. People tend to mind their business, you know. But if somebody decides they don't want to mind their business, then you know, you kind of have to move accordingly. And I'm not afraid of, you know, availing to law enforcement in those kind of situations. And listen, I don't take that likely, you know, it's black people in America.

00:37:03
Speaker 5: You know, we know this. Sometimes when we invite law enforcement, that can be its own problem.

00:37:08
Speaker 3: Right, Seriously, we got to talk about this family, but ultimately I'm going to defer that out rather than me sitting up here trying to go toe to toe hand to hand contact with an individual off the street.

00:37:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's a big choice.

00:37:23
Speaker 5: And everybody gets to do that how they want to do it.

00:37:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what I got from it is what you said. At the end of the day, do what works for you. But everybody deserves their privacy. Yes, your public figure, you deserve your privacy and you deserve your personal space.

00:37:38
Speaker 4: So I understand that. I get that. Ethnick Kay Williams.

00:37:41
Speaker 2: I thank you so much for hopping on this again your council baby Liberty.

00:37:46
Speaker 5: Yes, this little girl is doing too much.

00:37:48
Speaker 3: One more thing I did want to also say before we wrap, Carlos that I love please. That I thought was very much a class act and an important step for her to take because of her responsibility as a megastar. She also asked people to do this, lady, no harm. She said, do this lady, Yes, I thought. You know what's so funny I'm blake brought that up. That was a takeaway for me too, like leave her alone, don't do don't do her no harm.

00:38:18
Speaker 2: Justice hasn't served. Let's all go out and just mind our business.

00:38:21
Speaker 4: I could not agree more. I thought that was stellar.

00:38:23
Speaker 5: I that was chef's kiss.

00:38:27
Speaker 3: Not that I wasn't already a Cardif fan, but I walk away from this whole trial even more so because of the person that she showed herself to be throughout this entire thing. Charming, engaging, funny, but when at the end of it all stood on business, absolutely stood on business, but still with compassion and empathy that this is a human being. Even if she was out here trying to get a quick payday. She played herself, she didn't play me. And so now we're gonna move on and we're not gonna harass her. We're not gonna harass her family, or her children or her parents. Were to let this lady continue to live. Don't play with Cardi though, but let her live, and anybody else with any bright ideas about coming to play with me up around and find out it was it was perfect.

00:39:10
Speaker 4: Could not agree.

00:39:11
Speaker 2: Mark I, that's honestly my favorite part of the speech because it shows the level of integrity that she had to make sure that this woman also was not going to be you know, accosted, yes, and in salted as well, So no kudos to that.

00:39:28
Speaker 4: Kudos to you, Ebony, Kudos to you, Baby Liberty.

00:39:31
Speaker 2: And the best part about is that the that the range jobs love Ebony before I let you go. They love when they get a chance to see you be a working mom because it's so relatable to the world and my audience. So we love when Baby Liberty makes her.

00:39:49
Speaker 4: Yes, we love it.

00:39:50
Speaker 2: We love it so know that is actually it makes it makes the women who are the listeners, like Ebony is one of us.

00:39:58
Speaker 4: So kudos to you.

00:40:00
Speaker 5: I love you, Carlos. I love the rain drops.

00:40:02
Speaker 3: I love that we get these opportunities to have these conversations rooted in law and pop culture.

00:40:08
Speaker 5: And also our friendship.

00:40:09
Speaker 4: So you're the best.

00:40:10
Speaker 5: My love till next time.

00:40:11
Speaker 2: Till next time, baby, love you, love you, Bye bye bye.

00:40:18
Speaker 1: Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King, produced by Lizzie Nimitz, and a partnership.

00:40:26
Speaker 4: With the Lack Effect Network.

00:40:28
Speaker 1: You can also find us on my YouTube channel at the Carlos King Underscore,