All About Garden Follies

<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from Studio A Here at Proven Winners, Color Choice Shrubs.
<v Speaker 1>It's The Gardening Simplified Show with Stacy, Hervella, me Rick Weist,
<v Speaker 1>and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Today we talk
<v Speaker 1>about architectural garden follies. They're decorative, non essential structures often
<v Speaker 1>found in gardens or landscapes. They're originals, not mass produced,
<v Speaker 1>but it's garden ornamentation. At least you could argue that
<v Speaker 1>because it's there for esthetic purposes. A folly is an
<v Speaker 1>ornamental structure, sometimes strange, whimsical, built for a purpose pleasure,
<v Speaker 1>sometimes ruins, sometimes made up ruins a variety of architectural structures,
<v Speaker 1>and in England, follies and ruins are most often located
<v Speaker 1>in landscapes, gardens, on private estates. Garden follies began popping
<v Speaker 1>up on the sprawling grounds of estates throughout England and
<v Speaker 1>France in the eighteenth century, and the building's often served
<v Speaker 1>little purpose other than showcasing a land owner's wealth. It
<v Speaker 1>can also be a gathering hub in a landscape. You
<v Speaker 1>can use an actual ruin or make one up, and
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about it today. In segment four. Stacy when
<v Speaker 1>we talked to Lisa Roper Chanta Clear Gardens.
<v Speaker 2>I know, I'm very excited about that. We have a
<v Speaker 2>guest for the end of the show here who is
<v Speaker 2>going to talk about contemporary follies, which is not something
<v Speaker 2>that necessarily happens a lot, at least that we know of.
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's some very wealthy people out there hopefully
<v Speaker 2>building private gardens and spending lots and lots of money
<v Speaker 2>on follies. I really hope that's happening as it did
<v Speaker 2>in eighteenth century England. But the cool thing is there's
<v Speaker 2>a lot of follies contemporary like at Chanticleaer Gardens and
<v Speaker 2>vintage antique that you can see across the world, but
<v Speaker 2>especially in Europe. England is kind of the epicenter of
<v Speaker 2>the garden folly. And you know, thinking back to my
<v Speaker 2>garden history classes, the archetype of all folly landscapes is
<v Speaker 2>a garden called Stowe Stowe, so you might want to
<v Speaker 2>look that up to start your folly journey. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>in addition to showcasing the owner's wealth, very often the
<v Speaker 2>follies were metaphorical. They were intended to kind of create
<v Speaker 2>a tableau recalling a certain time or a certain type
<v Speaker 2>of landscape. So the pastoral landscapes of Pousin and Claude
<v Speaker 2>Lorraine were sort of recreated in reality in these gardens.
<v Speaker 2>And another thing that's really important about them from a
<v Speaker 2>gardening perspective is that they were almost always sighted in
<v Speaker 2>a magnificent way, so that you would look at them
<v Speaker 2>across the lake. You know, there were definitely some that
<v Speaker 2>were intended to be discovered as you strolled through the garden,
<v Speaker 2>but very often, you know, it was some sort of
<v Speaker 2>Greek temple that wasn't really a temple. And this is
<v Speaker 2>the important thing. Yes, you could go into it and
<v Speaker 2>you could experience it, but it was not really a
<v Speaker 2>temple that was intended for worship. It was a temple
<v Speaker 2>that was intended to call to mind the you know,
<v Speaker 2>classical period.
<v Speaker 1>But in England a variety of architectural structures you're so right, Stacey,
<v Speaker 1>fake cottages, temples, abbys, some may be falling into disarray,
<v Speaker 1>bridges to nowhere, fences that maybe are a backdrop drop
<v Speaker 1>but don't serve a purpose. But usually some sort of
<v Speaker 1>structure or building. For myself, I fell in love with
<v Speaker 1>landscape or garden follies years ago when visiting Monticello and
<v Speaker 1>Virginia and Thomas Jefferson's garden. So Thomas Jefferson served two
<v Speaker 1>terms as president. I think it's eighteen oh one to
<v Speaker 1>eighteen o nine. As he's in his second term, he's thinking,
<v Speaker 1>I want this pagoda or structure in my garden where
<v Speaker 1>I can just sit and reflect. And of course the
<v Speaker 1>one you see there in the garden today was rebuilt.
<v Speaker 1>But of course Jefferson took extensive notes. He was no
<v Speaker 1>stranger to Europe for sure, and so something like this
<v Speaker 1>was very appealing to him. And in the vegetable garden,
<v Speaker 1>for example, on the mountaintop, thirteen feet by six inch
<v Speaker 1>square structure with arched entry points on all four sides,
<v Speaker 1>and you can just picture Thomas Jefferson sitting there in
<v Speaker 1>his pavilion, and I just fell in love with them
<v Speaker 1>at that point. But of course they can be Classical Greek, Roman,
<v Speaker 1>Gothic pagodas, rustic cottages. All of these things are in play.
<v Speaker 1>And now you know, maybe they were hunting towers or
<v Speaker 1>lookout posts, but today the beauty of following is, you
<v Speaker 1>know they're utilized as tourist destinations, wedding venues, even filming location.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're so iconic, you know. I think if you
<v Speaker 2>do look up the pictures of Stowe. Stourhead is another
<v Speaker 2>one that's very similar, you would probably recognize these pictures
<v Speaker 2>is ones that you've seen in the past. But the
<v Speaker 2>point is, you know, nowadays, if we do need a
<v Speaker 2>little shade in our garden or want to create something,
<v Speaker 2>we tend to, you know, go to the box store
<v Speaker 2>and pick up something that's all over the place. And
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you mentioned that they're not mass produced. These
<v Speaker 2>are custom builds that align with the owner's vision and
<v Speaker 2>they are needlessly ornate and needlessly imaginative, which is what
<v Speaker 2>makes them so wonderful because they don't have to necessarily
<v Speaker 2>be there. They don't have to be that way. They
<v Speaker 2>could have a utilitarian structure, but they chose to go,
<v Speaker 2>you know, full bore and do something that is truly remarkable.
<v Speaker 1>I love a great pergola, and if you think about it,
<v Speaker 1>you know, pergolas have a long history ancient Egyptians, the
<v Speaker 1>Roman Empire, they grew grape vines on them, they provided
<v Speaker 1>some shade. But today a pergola in a landscape isn't
<v Speaker 1>necessarily there for the function, but rather the looks. And
<v Speaker 1>I'm working on building one in my landscape where I
<v Speaker 1>will use all old lumber from a lumber mill and
<v Speaker 1>rusty iron angles to hold it together. And I'm really
<v Speaker 1>looking forward to it, and for our gardening friends, I
<v Speaker 1>personally believe the best plant for a pergola. You know,
<v Speaker 1>you'll see pergolas that are overpowered by wisteria or trumpet
<v Speaker 1>vine or, in the case years ago, grape vines. I
<v Speaker 1>think clematis is the perfect plant for pergola.
<v Speaker 2>Well, it depends on your hype, because some clementists don't
<v Speaker 2>go that high. Yes, but yeah, if you get a
<v Speaker 2>nice vigorous one that can clamber all over that. Now
<v Speaker 2>it's funny that you mentioned this, because I also considering
<v Speaker 2>a pergola. I have to confess it was not going
<v Speaker 2>to be a folly. We are probably going to buy
<v Speaker 2>a kit from a box store, but we are going
<v Speaker 2>to cover it with grapes to put over a dining terrace,
<v Speaker 2>because that's classic, right, So you know, unless we get
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of I guess motivation or inspiration, we're
<v Speaker 2>going to do it pretty standard. But I like your
<v Speaker 2>idea of using all of this cookie, old materials. It's
<v Speaker 2>going to give it a lot of sense of place.
<v Speaker 2>And that's what the follies are about, as well as
<v Speaker 2>a sense of place that they are exclusively associated the
<v Speaker 2>sighting that iconic scene, so closely associated with that specific garden.
<v Speaker 1>A gathering hub where you want to hang out. Now, Stacey,
<v Speaker 1>you know I've got a thing for five gallon pills,
<v Speaker 1>but I also have a thing for bricks. I love
<v Speaker 1>to collect bricks. My dad loved to do that too,
<v Speaker 1>collecting stones for the garden and landscape. So you could
<v Speaker 1>say I'm a chip off the old patio stone. I've
<v Speaker 1>got a couple sample bricks here for our YouTube viewers.
<v Speaker 1>One is Metropolitan Block, Canton, Ohio. The other one is
<v Speaker 1>a Nelsonville brick. Now, these are historic bricks. They were
<v Speaker 1>used for paving the streets years ago, and of course
<v Speaker 1>we don't use them in most places anymore and they
<v Speaker 1>were discarded, but a lot of people like to reclaim
<v Speaker 1>these utilize them within their landscape. They're super heavy, they're
<v Speaker 1>nine pounds each.
<v Speaker 2>Nine pounds each, and he hauled them all the way
<v Speaker 2>to studio A just for our YouTube audience to see.
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't easy, but you know. They even have a
<v Speaker 1>festival in Ohio and Nelsonville. We'll put the link at
<v Speaker 1>our website. They use a salt glaze process. It was
<v Speaker 1>taken from the pottery industry to make these bricks. And
<v Speaker 1>many of these companies were in existence in the eighteen hundreds,
<v Speaker 1>after the Civil War, all the way up to the
<v Speaker 1>Gray Depression, when some of them went out of business.
<v Speaker 1>They developed star bricks that they used for sidewalks. As
<v Speaker 1>a matter of fact, the Nelsonville Brick Company had Star
<v Speaker 1>bricks for sidewalks that won first prize at the nineteen
<v Speaker 1>oh four World's Fair in Saint Louis. Think about the
<v Speaker 1>Indianapolis five hundred, the brickyard, the finish line. I understand
<v Speaker 1>they have a stash of these bricks. No one can
<v Speaker 1>see them, but of course from time to time they
<v Speaker 1>have to replace a brick along the finish line.
<v Speaker 2>Did not know that.
<v Speaker 1>So recycling bricks and using them in your landscape, I
<v Speaker 1>love to do that also for that reason, Stacey, Today,
<v Speaker 1>instead of a limb or rick, I'm going to give
<v Speaker 1>you a limb a brick to celebrate these wonderful bricks
<v Speaker 1>that can be used in Folly's hardescaping with stones and sticks.
<v Speaker 1>They're all in my bag of tricks. Don't need water,
<v Speaker 1>won't freeze. I create with the greatest of ease. I
<v Speaker 1>use bricks simply for kicks. And now you know something
<v Speaker 1>else about me. I like bricks. We'll see how Stacey
<v Speaker 1>ties this in and plants on trial. That's coming up
<v Speaker 1>next here on the Gardening Simplified Ship.
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<v Speaker 2>to choose from. There's a flowering shrubber evergreen for every
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<v Speaker 2>Winner's Color Choice dot com. Reading's gardening friends, and welcome
<v Speaker 2>back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where instead of talking
<v Speaker 2>strictly about plants today we are talking about garden follies
<v Speaker 2>and architectural phenomenon of primary eighteenth century England, where very
<v Speaker 2>wealthy people were designing these beautiful landscape gardens and gardens.
<v Speaker 2>You know, they did have like conventional flower gardens, but
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about like the big engineered rolling landscape with
<v Speaker 2>a man made lake and you know, the amazing sort
<v Speaker 2>of Greek or Roman temple back there. The oldest follies
<v Speaker 2>actually date back to the fifteen hundreds. There is a
<v Speaker 2>very well known garden that you might want to look
<v Speaker 2>up called Bomarzo or the Sacrobosco in Italy. It's also
<v Speaker 2>known as the Monster Park because yes, and when you
<v Speaker 2>see a picture of this you it'll make perfect sense
<v Speaker 2>to you. They just made these crazy different monsters and
<v Speaker 2>fantastical sculptures and caves with big monster mouths, and so
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of one of the earliest examples. And then
<v Speaker 2>you know, Strawberry Hill Versailles, of course, is a very
<v Speaker 2>famous one. Is I think perhaps one of the most
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous ones in my research for the show is the
<v Speaker 2>Dunmore Pineapple in Scotland, which is a summerhouse with a
<v Speaker 2>massive pineapple, a massive and when I say a massive
<v Speaker 2>stone pineapple, I mean I think this thing is probably
<v Speaker 2>twenty feet tall.
<v Speaker 1>I saw that. It's incredible. I'm not in person.
<v Speaker 2>I saw it on the yes online. And then of course,
<v Speaker 2>like I mentioned, stow Stowe, Stour Head, Strawberry Hill, there's
<v Speaker 2>lots of really cool ones that you can look up
<v Speaker 2>to get inspired and like we said in segment four,
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be talking to Lisa Roper from Chanticleer
<v Speaker 2>on contemporary follies and in public gardens. And most of
<v Speaker 2>the ones that we I think all the ones that
<v Speaker 2>we listed are actually public gardens. So that's the great
<v Speaker 2>thing is if you are traveling to Europe, you can
<v Speaker 2>almost certainly visit some of these gardens and see them
<v Speaker 2>for yourself. But let's say you have some sort of
<v Speaker 2>folly in your yard. And you know, even though we're
<v Speaker 2>using these examples of these massive scale, very expensive you know,
<v Speaker 2>and prohibitive, if not from budget but from a space perspective,
<v Speaker 2>because most of us don't have that much room in
<v Speaker 2>our gardens to build that kind of thing. It's like
<v Speaker 2>you said with your pergola, there are different ways that
<v Speaker 2>we can kind of incorporate this concept of folly, of
<v Speaker 2>something that is needlessly ornamental, that is just you know,
<v Speaker 2>it's not strictly utilitarian. It may have a utilitarian purpose
<v Speaker 2>as well, but it's not strictly utilitarian. There's ways you
<v Speaker 2>can do that in your yard.
<v Speaker 3>Now.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where I hope to put the pergola Stacey is
<v Speaker 1>in an area where there was an old shed. There
<v Speaker 1>was a concrete perfect the shed fell apart, going to
<v Speaker 1>put a pergola in its place, I already have the
<v Speaker 1>floor nice.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that works out perfect. So it's just kind
<v Speaker 2>of a choice that you make in how you use
<v Speaker 2>your property. But whether you actually are considering a folly,
<v Speaker 2>maybe even have a folly, or just kind of want
<v Speaker 2>a plant that's going to give you folly vibes in
<v Speaker 2>your landscape. That is today's plant on trial, and it
<v Speaker 2>is glow stick Japanese.
<v Speaker 1>Holly because it rhymes with folly.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know. I didn't even think about that.
<v Speaker 2>That was not why, but that is a delightful little coincidence.
<v Speaker 2>I picked it because you know, follies are, of course
<v Speaker 2>by nature, architectural, and when you have a kind of
<v Speaker 2>architectural feature in the landscape, it's good. Depending on on
<v Speaker 2>the style and everything and the look that you're going for,
<v Speaker 2>it's good to have architectural plants to complement that. Now
<v Speaker 2>you can also and we'll certainly see this when we
<v Speaker 2>talk to Lisa about Chanticleer Ruin that there's a mix
<v Speaker 2>of kind of soft, almost weedy looking plants as well
<v Speaker 2>as architectural plants. They both help help to play a
<v Speaker 2>role in kind of setting the folly within the landscape.
<v Speaker 2>So glow stick Japanese holly is basically what the name says.
<v Speaker 2>This is a yellow leafed Japanese holly that naturally grows
<v Speaker 2>with a stick like columnar habit, so it gets to
<v Speaker 2>be four to six feet tall, but just one one
<v Speaker 2>foot wide.
<v Speaker 1>That's so cool.
<v Speaker 2>It is so cool. And the nice thing about this
<v Speaker 2>plant is that it's golden foliage does not burn in
<v Speaker 2>the sun. So lots of older, more conventional golden leaf
<v Speaker 2>hollies they start it starts getting really sunny out there,
<v Speaker 2>especially if you are in a warmer climate, and that
<v Speaker 2>yellow foliage either burns, turns brown, or it bleaches out.
<v Speaker 2>Either way, it doesn't look great. And that is a
<v Speaker 2>really crucial quality for us here at preven Winter's color
<v Speaker 2>choice shrubs to find golden foliage that doesn't fade or
<v Speaker 2>burn or bleach out in the sun. So this doesn't
<v Speaker 2>it has it in our extensive trials here in Michigan,
<v Speaker 2>nor did it in our trial gardens in North Carolina
<v Speaker 2>where it was developed by the one and only ultra
<v Speaker 2>talented doctor Tom Rainey.
<v Speaker 1>Now that would explain why it's such a.
<v Speaker 2>Cool exactly, and that helps it to be really easy
<v Speaker 2>to grow and really easy to use in the landscape.
<v Speaker 2>It is also an ever green, so it's a broad
<v Speaker 2>leaf evergreen, and that's another I think really important quality
<v Speaker 2>of planting around a folly or again the folly vibes,
<v Speaker 2>is to have this year round beauty. Of course, you're
<v Speaker 2>going to want to have the deciduous plants too to
<v Speaker 2>kind of again create that seasonal effect, but having these
<v Speaker 2>structural architectural plants like glowstick Japanese holly is really really important.
<v Speaker 2>Now it is hardy down to USDA Zone five, but
<v Speaker 2>if you are going to grow glowstick or any Japanese
<v Speaker 2>holly down in USDA Zone five, even USDA Zone six,
<v Speaker 2>this is definitely one of those plants that you're going
<v Speaker 2>to want to make sure you have mulched, good two
<v Speaker 2>to three inch layer of shredded bark mulch over those
<v Speaker 2>roots to help protect them and can serve moisture all
<v Speaker 2>year round, but especially in winter, and if you are
<v Speaker 2>in those colder areas, you might consider citing them in
<v Speaker 2>a way that's just a little bit protected from the
<v Speaker 2>worst of the winter winds now. If you are in
<v Speaker 2>USDA Zone seven or eight, which which is the heat
<v Speaker 2>tolerance range of glow stick Japanese holly. No problem, you
<v Speaker 2>don't have to worry about it. You can just enjoy
<v Speaker 2>this plant all year round. It's going to do great
<v Speaker 2>for you. Now, I did kind of want to talk
<v Speaker 2>about using this plant in the landscape because that fastigit
<v Speaker 2>or columnar habit that it has makes it super versatile
<v Speaker 2>in the landscape. And you can imagine a space saving hedge,
<v Speaker 2>which is how we very often talk about using fastigit
<v Speaker 2>plants in the landscape, and it.
<v Speaker 1>Gives you design options. I see where you're going.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so nice space saving hedge if you want to
<v Speaker 2>do that. You can also pair them at an entryway
<v Speaker 2>for that great formal look. As always I like to
<v Speaker 2>mention as someone who has had to do a professional
<v Speaker 2>Christmas lighting before, makes a nice structure for you to
<v Speaker 2>put your holiday lights on if you are so inclined.
<v Speaker 2>But in the spirit of the Folly conversation, I also
<v Speaker 2>wanted to throw this idea out there, and again this
<v Speaker 2>is something that we're going to learn probably from Lisa
<v Speaker 2>when we talk about Chanticleer, because this is something that
<v Speaker 2>I saw used to great effect there. So instead of
<v Speaker 2>just buying all three gallon plants or all one gallon
<v Speaker 2>plants or whatever, a great way that you can use
<v Speaker 2>this plant is to buy multiple sizes and mix them
<v Speaker 2>within your planting. So say you buy, you know, it's
<v Speaker 2>a great idea one three gallon, you know, maybe one
<v Speaker 2>two gallon and five one gallons, and then you're kind
<v Speaker 2>of mixing them within this space. And what that does
<v Speaker 2>is it kind of calls to mind a natural colony
<v Speaker 2>of this plant, as though it had spread by seed,
<v Speaker 2>and all the plants are different ages, and that really
<v Speaker 2>kind of helps to settle something in and provide that
<v Speaker 2>lived in, been there a long time kind of look.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I like that approach. And the older I get, Stacey,
<v Speaker 1>the more and more I appreciate the structure of certain
<v Speaker 1>plants and then to be able to do that in
<v Speaker 1>a design that would stand out.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a it's I think it's a thing that
<v Speaker 2>people don't very often think of. This also works beautifully
<v Speaker 2>with boxwood or other shapes of Japanese holly, and it's
<v Speaker 2>just something to consider, you know. I know it's an
<v Speaker 2>idea that people often struggle with, is okay? I like
<v Speaker 2>this plant, I want to plant it, but you know,
<v Speaker 2>they kind of just get at home and boo, put
<v Speaker 2>it in a straight line. And this is a way
<v Speaker 2>to kind of again mix things up and create more
<v Speaker 2>depth and more interest in a really really simple way.
<v Speaker 2>Also saves money because you're not having to spend all
<v Speaker 2>of your money on those bigger, more expensive plants, you're
<v Speaker 2>mixing in some of those smaller ones. Another way you
<v Speaker 2>can do this is also just to add to it gradually,
<v Speaker 2>so you know, plant a couple of them, let them
<v Speaker 2>grow a couple of years, and then come back and
<v Speaker 2>add those, you know, to one or two gallons, and
<v Speaker 2>you know, just use time to your advantage as well,
<v Speaker 2>kind of group them in groups of three, because that
<v Speaker 2>obviously looks more natural. But that's a really fun way
<v Speaker 2>again to get that kind of kind of more again
<v Speaker 2>settled in look in the landscape that people don't necessarily
<v Speaker 2>always consider so space saving plant. It is moderately dear resistant,
<v Speaker 2>I would say.
<v Speaker 1>Have you I would agree with that, And of course
<v Speaker 1>hollies that I've grown kind of adapt as far as
<v Speaker 1>the prickly nature of the leaves are concerned. I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if that's a fig leaf of my imagination.
<v Speaker 3>Or what well.
<v Speaker 2>The Japanese holly does not have prickly leaves, so if
<v Speaker 2>prickly leaves have been keeping you from growing a holly,
<v Speaker 2>don't worry. It has a very small, spoon shaped generally
<v Speaker 2>spoon shaped foliage, tiny textural plant, so you don't have
<v Speaker 2>to worry about any thorns whatsoever. And it is a
<v Speaker 2>female Japanese holly, so if you have a male Japanese
<v Speaker 2>holly nearby, like compacta, it will get blackberries and you
<v Speaker 2>can imagine how amazing this plant is going to look
<v Speaker 2>with that golden foliage and some blackberries nestled up in there.
<v Speaker 2>So a very cool plant, whether you have a fall
<v Speaker 2>or just looking for something interesting and year round interest.
<v Speaker 2>Glow Stick Japanese Hollie is available now and will be
<v Speaker 2>also available next spring if you are looking for something inspiring,
<v Speaker 2>so you can check it out at our YouTube or
<v Speaker 2>visit Gardeningsimplified on air dot com or more information. We're
<v Speaker 2>going to take a little break and when we come back,
<v Speaker 2>we're opening up the mail bags, so please stay tuned
<v Speaker 2>at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. We know that a
<v Speaker 2>better landscape starts with a better shrub. Our team of
<v Speaker 2>experts tests and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs in
<v Speaker 2>evergreens for eight to ten years to ensure they outperform
<v Speaker 2>what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs
<v Speaker 2>to accentuate your home and express your personal style, look
<v Speaker 2>for Proven Winners shrubs in the distinctive white container at
<v Speaker 2>your local garden center or learn more at Proven Winners
<v Speaker 2>Color Choice dot com. Gardening Friends, and welcome back to
<v Speaker 2>the Gardening Simplified Show, where it is our pleasure to
<v Speaker 2>help you with your garden questions, quandaries and conundrums. And
<v Speaker 2>if you have one of those, you can reach out
<v Speaker 2>to us at help at Gardening Simplified on air dot com,
<v Speaker 2>or just visit Gardening Simplified on air dot com and
<v Speaker 2>use our contact form to send us a question. We
<v Speaker 2>don't get to all of the questions, of course, because
<v Speaker 2>a some questions are just a little too complicated to
<v Speaker 2>answer on air, and you know, we don't like to
<v Speaker 2>just sit here and give you a list of plants
<v Speaker 2>that you can't even imagine, because that's kind of boring.
<v Speaker 2>So we answer questions that we try to find are
<v Speaker 2>of general interest to most people, so if we can't
<v Speaker 2>answer your question, we do still want to help you,
<v Speaker 2>so just reach out to us at Perfume Winners, Color
<v Speaker 2>Choice dot com and you will get an answer from
<v Speaker 2>one of our horticulturists. So we are here to help you,
<v Speaker 2>and we're kicking it off with a comment.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Comment. We got a picture from a listener who sent
<v Speaker 1>this to us. Marge needed to send you this picture
<v Speaker 1>I took on a walk this week. Thought of you
<v Speaker 1>Rick and your Beatles comment on this weekend show last
<v Speaker 1>week's show, when I talked about how I hate weeping
<v Speaker 1>trees that are prone to look like the Beatles, And
<v Speaker 1>here's a weeping beach that looks like it, she says, old, bloody,
<v Speaker 1>old bla dah.
<v Speaker 2>Life goes And we will have pictures of that on
<v Speaker 2>YouTube if you want to see it. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>I think of all the weeping trees out there, it's
<v Speaker 2>the most tragic to do this to a weeping beach
<v Speaker 2>because weeping beaches are so majestic.
<v Speaker 3>This is for you.
<v Speaker 1>It's Stacy's birthday. I'm hijacking our mailbox this week to
<v Speaker 1>say a happy birthday. And I would say to you, Stacy,
<v Speaker 1>how many times have you been given a brick for
<v Speaker 1>your birthday.
<v Speaker 2>I have never been given a brick for my birthday.
<v Speaker 2>Is this is a beauty. This is a beauty. I
<v Speaker 2>love the glaze. This is fabulous and this will absolutely
<v Speaker 2>earn a place in my garden. Thank you, Rick.
<v Speaker 1>Sorry to call you out like that, but it is
<v Speaker 1>her birthday and we have to celebrate, and I thought,
<v Speaker 1>what better. You know, I'm the guy who gave her
<v Speaker 1>a Macromain long chair. Why not follow it up.
<v Speaker 2>We're using it too, so and I will be able
<v Speaker 2>to sell. Put the brick where I can see it.
<v Speaker 2>And thank you Rick. Those very very very sweet. But yeah,
<v Speaker 2>please don't do this to a weeping beach. Of all plants,
<v Speaker 2>you know, I see people do it to weeping cherries. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>but weeping beaches are truly majestic, and it's a shame
<v Speaker 2>to give it a little beetles haircut.
<v Speaker 3>I agree.
<v Speaker 1>Jeannie writes to us, I'm looking for suggestions on privacy
<v Speaker 1>plants and others which thrive in beach sand, you wrote
<v Speaker 1>to the right show, right, Yes, what do you recommend?
<v Speaker 2>Well, honestly, I would say, you know I'm going to
<v Speaker 2>give you an answer, but my answer is going to
<v Speaker 2>be based on the advice that I'm about to give you,
<v Speaker 2>which is go to the beach and see what grows.
<v Speaker 2>So if you're out here in West Michigan, you know,
<v Speaker 2>you go to any of our state parks or county
<v Speaker 2>parks like Rosy Mound Park out here in Grand Haven
<v Speaker 2>and see what's growing. And the number one plant that
<v Speaker 2>you are going number one evergreen that you're going to
<v Speaker 2>see growing is juniper. Yes, and that is a true
<v Speaker 2>testament because those are growing wild. And if something is
<v Speaker 2>growing wild, of course that means it's adapted to those conditions,
<v Speaker 2>and not that many plants really are going to be
<v Speaker 2>doing great in a truly sandy situation. I think juniper
<v Speaker 2>is a massive exception to that. They seem to love it.
<v Speaker 1>I agree with juniper, and I'm going to suggest ornamental
<v Speaker 1>grasses to help myself and my neighbors use them. We
<v Speaker 1>don't cut them back in winter. We wait until spring
<v Speaker 1>to cut them back. So there are a number of
<v Speaker 1>grasses miscanthus that will get tall enough to provide you
<v Speaker 1>some privacy.
<v Speaker 2>Well that's a great point too. I didn't think about
<v Speaker 2>that at my mind immediately when to evergreens, But of
<v Speaker 2>course Anyone who goes to the beach is going to
<v Speaker 2>notice our abundance of beach grass. So grass obviously is
<v Speaker 2>well suited. So and the nice thing is, you know,
<v Speaker 2>if you live in a colder climate, which I assume
<v Speaker 2>that you do, you're out here in West Michigan, you
<v Speaker 2>know you don't necessarily need that winter privacy. You're probably
<v Speaker 2>not in your yard. And in which case, you know,
<v Speaker 2>in the grass, leaving it standing still does provide good privacy.
<v Speaker 2>You just kind of have that window in late winter
<v Speaker 2>through about mid spring where you're waiting for it to
<v Speaker 2>actually start growing and filling in. The nice thing about
<v Speaker 2>the junipers as an option, and it's true with the
<v Speaker 2>grasses as well, lots of different colors and sizes. And
<v Speaker 2>with the junipers you can get big plants that are
<v Speaker 2>going to take up a ton of space as well
<v Speaker 2>as fastigiit plants that will take up less space, just
<v Speaker 2>like we were talking about with glow stick Japanese holly,
<v Speaker 2>which I would not recommend for planting in beach sand.
<v Speaker 2>It will not be happy and neither will you. But
<v Speaker 2>visit your garden center, take a look at both of
<v Speaker 2>these options. Don't be afraid to mix and match, because
<v Speaker 2>they also can work very well altogether, especially giving you
<v Speaker 2>that kind of beechy vibe.
<v Speaker 1>Right, No, I agree, it'd be great, Lisa writes to us. Help.
<v Speaker 1>I bought a clearance, oh the best kind, a clearance
<v Speaker 1>three to four foot ember waves arbor Vite, all proud
<v Speaker 1>of myself thinking I got a great deal. When I
<v Speaker 1>brought it home, I was disheartened to discover that the
<v Speaker 1>main leader had been tipped. Do I return it and
<v Speaker 1>buy another for two or three times the price, or
<v Speaker 1>take my chances that the leader will sort itself out
<v Speaker 1>without looking wonky? Also, do the ember waves really get
<v Speaker 1>eight feet wide? Thanks so much for your timely advice.
<v Speaker 2>All right, I want to answer this with a hot take.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, my hot take.
<v Speaker 2>My hot take is the backing news is that leaders
<v Speaker 2>on most plants are overrated. Not all plans, not all plans,
<v Speaker 2>and some plants it's extremely crucial. But I think people
<v Speaker 2>get a little bit too freaked out by the lack
<v Speaker 2>of a leader, and that almost any plant that is
<v Speaker 2>inclined to form a leader will regrow one if it
<v Speaker 2>loses one. Now, certainly, some really large trees like pines
<v Speaker 2>and spruces, losing their leader is not necessarily catastrophic because
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons that I have this opinion is
<v Speaker 2>seeing the plants in Japan and when we were talking
<v Speaker 2>about our vacation episode, you know, all of the thousands
<v Speaker 2>and thousands of pines at the Imperial Palace in Tokyo
<v Speaker 2>have all lost their leaders. They've specifically been pruned to
<v Speaker 2>not have their leader. What great character, and they look beautiful.
<v Speaker 2>And so I think with arborvidy, and this is not
<v Speaker 2>a plant I'm familiar with. This isn't a proven winter's plant,
<v Speaker 2>So I'm sorry, I can't answer you for sure weather
<v Speaker 2>or not it gets eight feet wide, but I would
<v Speaker 2>trust that it would get at least that wide. And
<v Speaker 2>I know that can be hard to believe when you've
<v Speaker 2>got that cute little plant in front of you, but
<v Speaker 2>it probably will and I would definitely account for that width.
<v Speaker 2>But I believe that, yes, your plant will form a
<v Speaker 2>new You can also kind of force it to form
<v Speaker 2>a new leader by choosing a branch and starting to
<v Speaker 2>trim towards that. But most plants that have this inherent
<v Speaker 2>tendency to have a leader will form a new one.
<v Speaker 1>I can't add anything to that. Stacy. Other than to say, Lisa,
<v Speaker 1>you bought it on clearance, I would accept compliments on
<v Speaker 1>its character.
<v Speaker 2>You enjoy it, and it will grow in a pyramidle form.
<v Speaker 2>It's just going to take a little while. And this
<v Speaker 2>happens to me with a juniper. I had a fastigiit
<v Speaker 2>juniper that was a seed grown juniper. It lost its
<v Speaker 2>leader from a really heavy snow and ice load and
<v Speaker 2>it had this big, horrible looking hole in it for
<v Speaker 2>like two months, and then a new leader emerged and
<v Speaker 2>now you can't even tell it ever lost it. So
<v Speaker 2>you can trust the plant. If it's really really important
<v Speaker 2>to you, then by all means go back and get
<v Speaker 2>the more expensive plants. But I think you can trust
<v Speaker 2>that this one will will recover.
<v Speaker 1>I love it. Tina writes to us, I need help
<v Speaker 1>figuring out what's going on with my three year old
<v Speaker 1>royal star magnolia. The shrub tree seems healthy. I've seen
<v Speaker 1>two different explanations from different extensions. One says insect go all,
<v Speaker 1>the other says seed pods help. I'm in southeast Minnesota.
<v Speaker 2>And we have pictures of this on YouTube, So join
<v Speaker 2>us on YouTube if you want to see a picture
<v Speaker 2>of that and I wanted to answer Tina's question today
<v Speaker 2>because this is not you know, there's certain questions that
<v Speaker 2>you always get as a horticulturist, right every year, right now,
<v Speaker 2>what is this plant with the pink stems and the
<v Speaker 2>purple berries and it's pokeweed? Why is at my hydrange
<v Speaker 2>of blooming? There's things you can predict. And this year
<v Speaker 2>I've had more questions on magnolia seed pods than I've
<v Speaker 2>ever had before. And the answer, Tina, is that those
<v Speaker 2>are simply the seed pods. Agreat they are just the
<v Speaker 2>seed pods. And the reason that they look so funky,
<v Speaker 2>and you'll certainly see this if you look at her pictures,
<v Speaker 2>and the seed pods on my magnolia look exactly the same.
<v Speaker 2>The seed pods of the numerous magnolias in our trial
<v Speaker 2>garden look the exact same. Because the magnolia seed pod
<v Speaker 2>looks a little bit like a pickle, is made up
<v Speaker 2>of numerous individual ovaries, and so when that's flowering, and
<v Speaker 2>if you look at the center of a magnolia flower,
<v Speaker 2>you will actually be able to see that. So each
<v Speaker 2>of those, actually probably the whole thing, is considered an ovary,
<v Speaker 2>and each of those are considered individual fruitlets in there.
<v Speaker 2>But when you have like some bumps and it's kind
<v Speaker 2>of twisting and turning in one side is bumpy, it
<v Speaker 2>simply means that that is where it got pollinated. So
<v Speaker 2>not every single flower within that inflorescence actually was pollinated.
<v Speaker 2>Only the ones that were pollinated start to swell, and
<v Speaker 2>it gives it that weird, contorted, twisted Look. Now, as
<v Speaker 2>you were saying, Rick before the show, if you break
<v Speaker 2>that open, it'll be red red orange inside at this
<v Speaker 2>time of year.
<v Speaker 1>And I would break one or two open and take
<v Speaker 1>a look.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if you let them open naturally, which they
<v Speaker 2>will do in the coming weeks. It's very cool because
<v Speaker 2>the magnolia seeds come out on this little silken threat.
<v Speaker 2>It's really beautiful and you can kind of pull them
<v Speaker 2>off and you can pull the thread out. It's really long.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's one of my favorite things about Magnolia's.
<v Speaker 2>I love it. They also have a really good kind
<v Speaker 2>of resinous smell. Now, the other question that I got
<v Speaker 2>about magnolia seed pods earlier this year was from someone
<v Speaker 2>who was worried their magnolia was dying because the seed
<v Speaker 2>pods were dropping, and I told her, no need to worry.
<v Speaker 2>It's just that they didn't get fertilized at all. So
<v Speaker 2>in about midsummer, any fruits on the magnolia that did
<v Speaker 2>not have any fertilization happening, the plant just drops them.
<v Speaker 2>So you have that drop earlier in the season. Now
<v Speaker 2>you have the maturity and they will be bursting open
<v Speaker 2>probably in another four to six weeks.
<v Speaker 1>Great description, yep, so enjoy them.
<v Speaker 2>It is part of the show on a Magnolia. We're
<v Speaker 2>going to take a little break. When we come back.
<v Speaker 2>We've got our guest Lisa Roper from Chanticleair Garden. Simpley
<v Speaker 2>stay tuned. Thanks for listening to the Gardening Simplified Podcast,
<v Speaker 2>brought to you by Proven Winners Color Choie Shrubs. Our
<v Speaker 2>award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens are trialed and tested
<v Speaker 2>by experts with your success in mind. Learn more at
<v Speaker 2>Proven Winners, color Choice dot com. Greeting's gardening friends, and
<v Speaker 2>welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show where I am
<v Speaker 2>so very very excited to have a guest Lisa Roper
<v Speaker 2>from Shanta Clear Gardens, which is in Wayne, Pennsylvania, not
<v Speaker 2>far from Philadelphia and honestly one of the best public
<v Speaker 2>gardens in the entire United States, certainly top ten in
<v Speaker 2>the world. If you are a plant lover, this is
<v Speaker 2>a place that you have to see because they truly
<v Speaker 2>elevate horticulture to an art. The science is still very
<v Speaker 2>much there, but the planting at Chanticleer is really done
<v Speaker 2>in a way that really can't be matched for artfulness
<v Speaker 2>and just with an appreciation for plants and their gestures,
<v Speaker 2>and it's fabulous. It's open to the public April through
<v Speaker 2>November and you should definite only visit. And with that
<v Speaker 2>I am going to bring in Lisa, Welcome to the show.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.
<v Speaker 2>So tell our listeners, since we are based in Michigan
<v Speaker 2>and many of our listeners are also based here, that
<v Speaker 2>we have listeners across the country in Canada, tell them
<v Speaker 2>a little bit about Chanticleer, Okay.
<v Speaker 3>Chanta Clear is a pleasure garden that's open to the
<v Speaker 3>public since nineteen ninety three. It was the former home
<v Speaker 3>of the Rosengarden family. They had a chemical company in Philadelphia,
<v Speaker 3>later merged with merk and they were famous for producing
<v Speaker 3>large quantities of quina. The main house, built in nineteen
<v Speaker 3>thirteen as a summer residence, but eventually the family moved
<v Speaker 3>there and the son and the daughter as they grew up,
<v Speaker 3>each got their own house. When I entered the scene
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen ninety Ada Frozen Garden Junior, the son was
<v Speaker 3>still alive. He had set up a board and left
<v Speaker 3>an endowment, and by the time I started two months later,
<v Speaker 3>he had passed away. But that's how we came to
<v Speaker 3>be open to the public. We are still a private foundation,
<v Speaker 3>so it.
<v Speaker 2>Was already in process as a garden where he passed away.
<v Speaker 3>That is correct. Chris Woods, a gardener from England, had
<v Speaker 3>been hired as the director. I think I actually started
<v Speaker 3>as a gardener and he had a vision for this place.
<v Speaker 3>Chris had just put out a book on perennials. He's
<v Speaker 3>an incredible plantsman and designer and he just envisioned this
<v Speaker 3>very creative garden and set out to start doing it
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen ninety.
<v Speaker 2>Well, and that's amazing because I was reading about you.
<v Speaker 2>You have been there since the beginning as a horticulturist.
<v Speaker 3>Since early, very early on, Yes, since nineteen ninety. I
<v Speaker 3>got to see that the master plan go in and
<v Speaker 3>the garden open to the public and as the years
<v Speaker 3>have gone by, It's grown, our visitation has grown, and
<v Speaker 3>the matter of staff has grown, and the gardens have grown. Well.
<v Speaker 2>I can't lie. I am like a serious fangirl because
<v Speaker 2>Lisa Roper is like the ultimate horticulture cool girl. I
<v Speaker 2>was looking at her Instagram. Not only is she an
<v Speaker 2>amazing plants person with incredible knowledge and an eye for design,
<v Speaker 2>but you've traveled all over the world studying plants, looking
<v Speaker 2>at plants like I mean. And we'll give out your
<v Speaker 2>Instagram handle so people can follow you at the end
<v Speaker 2>of the segment. But one of the reasons that Lisa,
<v Speaker 2>as a horticulturist at Chanticleer is the one who is
<v Speaker 2>joining us today is because she is the gardener in
<v Speaker 2>charge of the ruined garden at Chanticleer. So with that,
<v Speaker 2>since we're talking about garden follies and I think the
<v Speaker 2>Chanticleer ruin is such an incredible example of a modern
<v Speaker 2>day or contemporary folly, can you tell us a little
<v Speaker 2>bit about how that came to be?
<v Speaker 3>Yes, this idea occurred to Chris Woods in the early nineties.
<v Speaker 3>As I said, he's British, and of course in Europe
<v Speaker 3>there are lots of follies and ruins, and in America,
<v Speaker 3>sincewits so new, there aren't. But he envisioned turning the
<v Speaker 3>house that was Adolf rosen Garden Junior's house into a folly.
<v Speaker 3>He wanted it to feel like an old, crumbling house
<v Speaker 3>that's been overtaken by vines and trees and so on.
<v Speaker 3>And I'd say in the early nineties he started talking
<v Speaker 3>about it. We went and visited ruins in Italy and
<v Speaker 3>England to get inspirations. In fact, I remember going to
<v Speaker 3>Nympha in Italy, which is a beautiful ruined garden, very
<v Speaker 3>romantic but in the and he built it with the
<v Speaker 3>help of landscape architect Marabard, and they he envisioned it
<v Speaker 3>very green and textural and not romantic in Flowery. And
<v Speaker 3>that's what happened, except the structural engineers recommended that instead
<v Speaker 3>of ruining the house, the stonehouse that was there, that
<v Speaker 3>we build the new ruin up from the footprint so
<v Speaker 3>it would just be more structurally sound. And that happened
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen ninety nine.
<v Speaker 2>And were you, and since you've been a part of Chanticleer,
<v Speaker 2>you know, since its inception, were you a part of
<v Speaker 2>that design process? What did that look like.
<v Speaker 3>So I was not in those days. I was in
<v Speaker 3>the Asian Woods. That was my primary garden for eleven years,
<v Speaker 3>and a woman named Laurel Varan, who has since moved
<v Speaker 3>to Michigan, gardened it first. So I think I would
<v Speaker 3>say that, you know, I don't think she was that
<v Speaker 3>involved in the architect actual design of the ruin, but
<v Speaker 3>she was very involved in the planting up of the ruin,
<v Speaker 3>and you know, sort of teested certain things, like, for example,
<v Speaker 3>there are wall pockets in the ruin where soil is,
<v Speaker 3>and she first put ferns in them since it's kind
<v Speaker 3>of shady there, but even with drift irrigation, they didn't thrive.
<v Speaker 3>So in the end she found succulents to be a
<v Speaker 3>better choice, and so she gardened there for about thirteen
<v Speaker 3>years before I came on the scene and took it over.
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I feel like now it would be
<v Speaker 2>a good time to mention that one of the other
<v Speaker 2>things that makes Chantic Clear truly unique among public gardens
<v Speaker 2>is that it is considered a pleasure garden. That's kind
<v Speaker 2>of your tagline, and you don't do labels.
<v Speaker 3>For the most part, we do not. We do label
<v Speaker 3>Woody plants, but they're usually discreete so you have done
<v Speaker 3>for them. But what we do is put out plant lists,
<v Speaker 3>and each garden area has a beautiful plantless box where
<v Speaker 3>they're located that was made by one of the gardeners
<v Speaker 3>out of stained glass and metal or wood, each one different.
<v Speaker 3>Eric Sue is our plant recorder and he's responsible for
<v Speaker 3>keeping track of all these plants and putting the list together.
<v Speaker 2>So what does the plant box in the ruined garden
<v Speaker 2>look like?
<v Speaker 3>It is a stained glass box. I have never made
<v Speaker 3>any of them. We all have different projects in the
<v Speaker 3>winter time, and Joe Henderson, the pond gardener, does a
<v Speaker 3>lot of them. But I think Laurel did come too.
<v Speaker 3>So it's a beautiful stained glass little box hung on
<v Speaker 3>the stone wall of the ruin.
<v Speaker 2>So can you kind of paint? Since we are a podcasts,
<v Speaker 2>there's going to be a YouTube version, and I know
<v Speaker 2>Adriana will have some photography of her own that she
<v Speaker 2>can share. I have some photography from years ago when
<v Speaker 2>I last visited Chanticleer, So can you kind of just
<v Speaker 2>paint like a basic picture for our audio listeners of
<v Speaker 2>what the chant clear ruin looks like?
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Well, as I said, it's built in the footprint
<v Speaker 3>of the house, so there are various rooms that correspond
<v Speaker 3>to what the house had. When you enter it from
<v Speaker 3>the Sparrobolus meadow, going up the hill, you walk into
<v Speaker 3>a outdoor like sort of courtyard first where there are
<v Speaker 3>large sculptures of acorns and a stone stone oak leaves.
<v Speaker 3>And then you walk into the dining room and there
<v Speaker 3>is the black granite water table, which was an inspiration
<v Speaker 3>from a garden in Italy called Villa Lante that Chris
<v Speaker 3>took us to, and around on the floor around the
<v Speaker 3>water table is a carpet made out of stone and tile.
<v Speaker 3>The tile from the roof, which was terra cotta, was
<v Speaker 3>recycled to use as the sort of carpet pattern in
<v Speaker 3>that dining room. And then from there you would walk
<v Speaker 3>into the library where stones carved into books by an
<v Speaker 3>artist named Marcia Donahue who did the acorns are also
<v Speaker 3>and these are kind of stacked and lying around, and
<v Speaker 3>if you look closely, they have different words in them,
<v Speaker 3>many of which are puns that reflect the garden or
<v Speaker 3>the ruin or people. And then the last big room
<v Speaker 3>is where the faces fountain is, so there are two
<v Speaker 3>water features in this ruin. The faces fountain is about
<v Speaker 3>waist high, and it has these just beautiful marble faces
<v Speaker 3>of pink and black stone, and there's waterfall kind of
<v Speaker 3>going over them.
<v Speaker 2>So it's almost like everything that you described is it's
<v Speaker 2>like follies within a folly. You know, all of these
<v Speaker 2>extra kind of visual puns and everything within something that's
<v Speaker 2>already a folly. That's kind of amazing.
<v Speaker 3>And the other thing is the walls are clothed in
<v Speaker 3>espaliers and vine for the most part. I mean, there
<v Speaker 3>are a few shrubs in the ruin as well, but
<v Speaker 3>a lot of spaliers, which are trained shrubs or trees
<v Speaker 3>against they're trained against the wall, and then vines running
<v Speaker 3>up the wall. So that's that's kind of the green
<v Speaker 3>part of the ruin. There are some beds in it
<v Speaker 3>where some planting pockets inside too, So.
<v Speaker 2>I did want to move on and talk about the
<v Speaker 2>planting and the kind of plants that are in it,
<v Speaker 2>because I know one of the things about Chanticleer is
<v Speaker 2>that you know, the gardeners of each of the section
<v Speaker 2>have substantial autonomy to you know, design it and include
<v Speaker 2>the plants that they envision for the area. And of
<v Speaker 2>course the ruin is, you know, so very different than
<v Speaker 2>than the rest of the garden. So sort of what
<v Speaker 2>is the what are the primary plants and the planting
<v Speaker 2>strategy that you put into being the horticulturist for the ruin.
<v Speaker 3>You know, if I think about it, most of the
<v Speaker 3>plants that are there were put in before I took over,
<v Speaker 3>and I have just been gardening it, and I think
<v Speaker 3>that they're very successful. I would say the key plant,
<v Speaker 3>if there is a our signature plant, would be a
<v Speaker 3>Acer davidii, which is a Asian maple with striped bark.
<v Speaker 3>And this is espaliered on one wall above the water table.
<v Speaker 3>It's also just growing as a tree in some of
<v Speaker 3>the planting pockets. It has beautiful bark and some fall
<v Speaker 3>color as well. That would be the signature inside the ruin.
<v Speaker 3>But the plant that feels most like a ruin is
<v Speaker 3>actually mostly outside the ruin, although there's one inside, and
<v Speaker 3>that is a leaping spruce pica AB's pendula. And these
<v Speaker 3>plants have been the central leader has been trained up
<v Speaker 3>as high as we can train them, and then they
<v Speaker 3>weep both and they have so much character. They're all
<v Speaker 3>different from each other, and they look kind of like
<v Speaker 3>these creatures, these doctors' creatures walking up the path towards
<v Speaker 3>the ruin.
<v Speaker 2>So they're almost like the ghosts haunting haunting the ruin.
<v Speaker 2>So one of the planting kind of ideas that I
<v Speaker 2>picked up when I last visited Chanticleer, And as I recall,
<v Speaker 2>there were oak trees, small oak trees of kind of
<v Speaker 2>different ages popping up, and so I was wondering, you know,
<v Speaker 2>with the acorn sculptures that you referenced as part of it,
<v Speaker 2>sort of what is the significance of the oaks and
<v Speaker 2>the acorns within the ruined garden.
<v Speaker 3>The idea is to keep those oaks juvenile and just
<v Speaker 3>have them like a forest kind of coming up and
<v Speaker 3>maybe looking like they're you know, like the house has
<v Speaker 3>gotten deserted and the forest is growing up. In the beginning,
<v Speaker 3>Laurel used to replant these every year and then have
<v Speaker 3>them come up and then dig them out and plant
<v Speaker 3>a new one. But now we found a technique that's
<v Speaker 3>much easier. We just cut them back, like polard them
<v Speaker 3>to the ground and let them shoot up again when
<v Speaker 3>they're getting too big.
<v Speaker 2>That is so smart, and I was wondering that from
<v Speaker 2>the last time I visited it, and I still remember that,
<v Speaker 2>even though it was you know, a good fourteen or
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years ago. Was like, are they replanting this every year?
<v Speaker 2>Or are they kind of compassing at tillarding it?
<v Speaker 3>She probably was replanting it, but I have to tell
<v Speaker 3>you one of them got away from me and it's
<v Speaker 3>now now a tree.
<v Speaker 2>These things happened, Things happened.
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you, Lisa. I love American history
<v Speaker 1>and I've always enjoyed my visits to the Philadelphia area,
<v Speaker 1>and I think a visit to chant Clear would just
<v Speaker 1>be an exclamation point. Such a beautiful place, so much
<v Speaker 1>romance involved. I think about the early twentieth century people
<v Speaker 1>getting on the train and escaping the heat and the
<v Speaker 1>smells of Philadelphia to get out there. But you mentioned
<v Speaker 1>an interesting thing at the outset of this interview, and
<v Speaker 1>that is with the original family, were they involved in
<v Speaker 1>the production of quinine?
<v Speaker 3>Their company was, Yes, that's what their company did.
<v Speaker 1>See. That's so fascinating to me because the times that
<v Speaker 1>have gone to Philadelphia. The City Tavern closed during COVID
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think has reopened. But it's where George
<v Speaker 1>Washington dined when he was passing through Philadelphia during his
<v Speaker 1>inauguration as president, and so it was amazing to sit
<v Speaker 1>in city tavern there and have a meal. But the
<v Speaker 1>interesting thing to me, Lisa, is that George Washington had
<v Speaker 1>a real thing for quinine, and many people would argue
<v Speaker 1>that we won the Revolutionary War because of quinine. When
<v Speaker 1>General Cornwallis was in South Carolina and took the fight
<v Speaker 1>to South Carolina, mosquitoes became a serious problem, and the
<v Speaker 1>American soldiers had the advantage over British soldiers in that
<v Speaker 1>they had the availability of quinine, and many people believe
<v Speaker 1>it's that that won the Revolutionary War for us. So
<v Speaker 1>I know, I went down a completely different path from ruins,
<v Speaker 1>but I love what you're doing there and chant to
<v Speaker 1>clear gardens, and I just think it gives me goose
<v Speaker 1>bumps to go to an area like that.
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'll tell you another little thing. There's a plant
<v Speaker 3>I grow outside of the gravel guard, outside of the
<v Speaker 3>ruin in the gravel garden, which I also take care of,
<v Speaker 3>and that's Parthenium integrifolium. Its common name is false quinine.
<v Speaker 3>And I do remember back in the nineties that Chris
<v Speaker 3>would introduce that plant to Shanicker because of the history.
<v Speaker 1>Wow, yeah, yeah, there's great history to that.
<v Speaker 2>I love that happened when it's just like kind of
<v Speaker 2>a little inside joke for the people who know, of
<v Speaker 2>course about the original owners of the property. And I'm
<v Speaker 2>out Parthyu as well. So I wanted to ask because
<v Speaker 2>I think this is something that when people do visit
<v Speaker 2>Chanticleer probably sticks with them. I mean, of course, the
<v Speaker 2>ruin is definitely one of the most dramatic parts for
<v Speaker 2>someone who maybe doesn't have such an eye for plants,
<v Speaker 2>and it's just kind of taking in the whole experience.
<v Speaker 2>But is the stone living room Was that put in
<v Speaker 2>at the same time as the ruin?
<v Speaker 3>No, that's that's different. Now. Stacy's talking about a couch
<v Speaker 3>and two stone chairs that are in the gravel garden
<v Speaker 3>adjacent to the ruin, and those were put in by
<v Speaker 3>craftsmen and gardener Doug Randolph. He started as a full
<v Speaker 3>time gardener here in the nineties and he then transitioned
<v Speaker 3>to be a part time gardener and craftsman and he
<v Speaker 3>built a lot of of our wooden furniture then, but
<v Speaker 3>he also carved these this furniture after actually learning how
<v Speaker 3>to use air tools from Marcia Donahue, the sculptor who
<v Speaker 3>gave us all those wonderful sculptures I mentioned, and so
<v Speaker 3>he made them. And he also made a remote stone
<v Speaker 3>remote with little polished stones as the buttons.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just another fun take on the folly, I think,
<v Speaker 2>even though this one does have some use, it definitely
<v Speaker 2>has a lot of folly vibes.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we love whimsy, as Shanna Claire, I have to say.
<v Speaker 3>And he used some of the micas shifts that was
<v Speaker 3>used in the ruin to relate the furniture to the ruin.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Stacey shared some pictures with me. You're talking about whimsy.
<v Speaker 1>The drinking fountains, My word, those are amazing.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So the drinking fountains, the furniture, the hand raise,
<v Speaker 3>the fence is most all of it is made in
<v Speaker 3>our woodshop and metal shop by gardens in the later time.
<v Speaker 2>So I know we've been talking for a while. So
<v Speaker 2>we always ask our guests this question, and it is
<v Speaker 2>of course the most unfair question you could possibly ask
<v Speaker 2>a horticulturist. But you know, for you, Lisa, with your
<v Speaker 2>incredible experience and range of knowledge and travels, we have
<v Speaker 2>to ask what's your favorite plant. It could be just
<v Speaker 2>at this moment, it could be in general. However you
<v Speaker 2>want to answer that, But we want to know what's
<v Speaker 2>your what's your top pick today?
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I want to say right now. Leaptrice asked bra
<v Speaker 3>this is not the into ruin. It's in the gravel
<v Speaker 3>garden and it's about to open. It has like little
<v Speaker 3>button like flowers about five and five and a half
<v Speaker 3>feet tall. I love it because the monarch's nectar on it,
<v Speaker 3>and I grow a lot of different leatris or gay
<v Speaker 3>feather in the gravel garden. Did you mean for the
<v Speaker 3>ruin though.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I've just been in general. It doesn't have to
<v Speaker 2>be related to the ruin.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, in the ruin. I do put a gave
<v Speaker 3>attenuata in the wall pockets and I love them. And
<v Speaker 3>they were actually influenced by a trip to Madera where
<v Speaker 3>I saw I forget if it was a savaria or
<v Speaker 3>some succulent growing in walls and with you know, the
<v Speaker 3>big bouquet almost of a succulent, and so I kind
<v Speaker 3>of copied that idea with a gave attenuata and I
<v Speaker 3>plant them out in May and they stay until you know,
<v Speaker 3>it gets too cold.
<v Speaker 2>And it is such an amazing place. Now, you know,
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, Lisa, you've done such an amazing job
<v Speaker 2>of painting the picture of the ruin. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>when when I know people who are headed to Philadelphia,
<v Speaker 2>they usually say, I can't wait to visit Longwood and Lisa,
<v Speaker 2>I know you're an alum of Longwood, which is of
<v Speaker 2>course amazing. They have an incredible professional horticulture program. But
<v Speaker 2>I always tell people, you know, Longwood's great, but Chanta
<v Speaker 2>Clear is where you should be spending your time.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Well, and you know, we have a lot of
<v Speaker 3>crossover with Longwood as well. The students come and work,
<v Speaker 3>volunteer to work with us on weekends and exchange for that,
<v Speaker 3>I think we help subsidize their trip. And so there's
<v Speaker 3>a lot of back and forth between the two and
<v Speaker 3>many and not only I, but other horticultures that Shanna
<v Speaker 3>Clear studied it Longwood and.
<v Speaker 1>You're less than an hour drive apart, So why not.
<v Speaker 3>You're absolutely then they're so different. You know, Longwood's such
<v Speaker 3>a large, grand garden and Shannon Clear's more intimate and
<v Speaker 3>maybe more easily envisioned to take something and put it
<v Speaker 3>in your home guarden. You know, the same idea, right.
<v Speaker 2>I'm lucky to have visited in multiple seasons, and it
<v Speaker 2>is there's always been so many moments that have just
<v Speaker 2>you know, from a horticultural perspective, from a plant design perspective.
<v Speaker 2>I'm really just in awe of your talent and vision
<v Speaker 2>and that of all of the horticulturists at Chanticleer.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.
<v Speaker 2>You do an amazing job. So let that be a
<v Speaker 2>recommendation for our listeners. If you are going to Philadelphia
<v Speaker 2>and you only have time to visit one single garden,
<v Speaker 2>I would humbly recommend Chanta Clear if you can visit
<v Speaker 2>to you go ahead and add Long or any of
<v Speaker 2>the other great gardens in the area area inspiring Lisa,
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.
<v Speaker 3>Can I just have one thing that you mentioned the
<v Speaker 3>visitation or we Since COVID, we have a reservation system
<v Speaker 3>for your car, okay, so do you check the website
<v Speaker 3>before you come. And that's at most days but not
<v Speaker 3>all so okay.
<v Speaker 2>Good to know. So that is a good pro tip
<v Speaker 2>if you are driving to Chanta Clear. Now I know
<v Speaker 2>what I want to leave our listeners with something so
<v Speaker 2>they can if they're not planning a trip to Philadelphia
<v Speaker 2>anytime too soon, can take a look at what you
<v Speaker 2>are doing. So what is your Instagram It's etc.
<v Speaker 3>E P H E D E r A all right,
<v Speaker 3>and that is a plant that I grow in the
<v Speaker 3>gravel garden.
<v Speaker 2>And so you can also follow Lisa and all of
<v Speaker 2>the other horticulture's work at Chanticleer at Chanticleer Garden on Instagram,
<v Speaker 2>and Lisa, you take a great number of the photos
<v Speaker 2>that are shared on the social media posts.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I photographed the garden weekly and the photographs I
<v Speaker 3>make the content basically, and then they're used by our
<v Speaker 3>web guide to put on Facebook and Instagram, although some
<v Speaker 3>of the other we have Instagram takeovers by some of
<v Speaker 3>our very talented interns and other staff. So you will
<v Speaker 3>run into those two well.
<v Speaker 2>They are definitely worth following and so much inspiration on
<v Speaker 2>those accounts, whether you're looking for plants or photography or
<v Speaker 2>just inspiration for your next trip to visit gardens. So Lisa,
<v Speaker 2>thank you so very much for your time with us
<v Speaker 2>in all of your amazing work at Chanticleer and sharing
<v Speaker 2>your talents in photography and planting design.
<v Speaker 3>Well, thank you, and I look forward to seeing people
<v Speaker 3>come to the garden and introduce themselves to me.
<v Speaker 2>I hope they do it.
<v Speaker 1>Thank you Lisa, Well Stacey. That was fantastic and I'm
<v Speaker 1>inspired and i can't wait to do a little folly
<v Speaker 1>work in my landscape.
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to see what you do.
<v Speaker 1>Thank you Stacy, thank you Adriana, and thanks most of
<v Speaker 1>all to you for watching us on YouTube, looking for
<v Speaker 1>the podcast wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and listening
<v Speaker 1>to the radio version of our show. Have a great week.