383 | The Parent Factor in CCPT: Can a Child Fully Heal If the Parent Doesn't Change?

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I'm answering a question from Tammy in Maryland.

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And this question is about.

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Parents

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and their own issues and how that bleeds in and

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impacting the progress of the client,

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so on and so forth.

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So,

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really helpful question.

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Thank you.

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Thank you,

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Tammy.

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I appreciate it.

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And I wanted to let you all know that

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just because I'm excited,

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not because it's really relevant

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to CCPT whatsoever,

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but

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our son's team,

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as many of you all know,

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he's homeschooled,

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but homeschool kids can try out for their zoned high school.

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And so he plays for Sun Lake High School baseball,

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and they are 13-0

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so far this season.

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And they are just

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playing

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so successfully as a team and it's so fun to watch.

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And it's just been really,

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really exciting.

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So,

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just wanted to celebrate a little bit of

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baseball with y'all because that's our world,

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so might as well

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make its way into yours.

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All right,

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let's get back to the question.

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Actually,

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my son's pitching tonight and he's pitching Monday.

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So I'm really excited about that too.

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He's going to pitch 2 games in a row.

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And

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so we will,

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we'll see

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how that unfolds,

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but so far undefeated,

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and they have,

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let me think,

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5 games left.

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So we'll see how the rest of the season goes,

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but very exciting.

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All right,

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let me read parts of Tammy's email and then we will dive in together.

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I've seen with some of my clients that a parent exhibits high stress,

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anxiety,

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and or perfectionism.

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To my client,

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it has significant impact on them by

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amplifying these tendencies and normalizing them.

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I work with parents in line with CCPT

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and encourage them to invest in therapy for themselves also.

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If they don't,

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they have a hard time incorporating CCPT principles in

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the home if they're not doing their own work.

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Does this impact the progress of the client just by slowing it down or

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possibly not able to improve beyond a certain point or in some other way?

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All right,

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really helpful question.

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So,

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isn't this kind of the rub

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that

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when you have a really anxious kid,

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often,

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I mean,

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not always by any means,

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but often

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we have at least one anxious parent.

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So we know that there's

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nature and nurture here.

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We know that anxiety is a predisposition.

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There is a genetic component to it,

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and there's also an observed component to it.

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So a child absorbs anxiety that they are around

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and they might be predisposed to it because of genes.

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So

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yes,

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100%,

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often

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we have parents

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and their tendencies and their traits,

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and it bleeds into

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children.

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Now,

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that is not inherently a problem

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because kids are going to work through their stuff.

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Ideally,

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parents work through their stuff

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and there's a converging of sorts.

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So,

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to answer your

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comment about working with parents in line with CCPT.

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Of course,

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we're going to equip parents with

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as much knowledge as we can share

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and that is relevant and helpful to them.

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Let me

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pause for a second though

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and issue a huge caution.

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I've been talking about this a lot in coaching lately.

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I think we've become

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so

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focused on teachingpar skills

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and

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understandably they desperately need it,

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but I think we've,

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maybe because I've pushed it so much,

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maybe because we're realizing the value of it,

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we've taken up this banner of I'm going to

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teach parents as much as I possibly can.

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That's helpful,

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but it can't be the way that we typically do it.

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We have to look at a parent,

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look at their personality,

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look at the situation.

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Look at what's going on,

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look at what their stress levels are,

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look at what they can feasibly handle

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and say,

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what is going to set this parent up for success right now?

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And most of the time,

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it's way less than what we would lead with.

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I know a lot of us are like,

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I'm gonna teach them all four pillars.

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Well,

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CCPTs that have been doing this work for years

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haven't mastered the pillars yet.

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And we're expecting a parent with no background in mental health,

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with no background in understanding children's behavior,

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with no background in therapy,

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with no background in all the stuff that we come with.

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We're expecting them to master these skills that we can't even master ourselves.

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It's a tall order and it's too much.

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So sometimes we might start with,

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let's give your child a thirty-second burst of attention this week.

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Let's just focus on a thirty-second burst of attention.

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Let's see how that goes.

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Now,

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that's straight out of CPRT.

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So,

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often what we can do is incorporate CPRT principles into our work with parents.

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But we certainly don't want to lead with skills

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because they can't handle that,

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and it will set them up for failure,

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and then they will be resentful and then they will not buy in.

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We're trying to set them up for success.

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So be very careful.

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We're going to drip feed and we're going to be very purposeful

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about what we share and when,

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according to what the parent can handle.

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And think about the journey as well.

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If you're 5 weeks in,

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you can't teach skills.

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If you're 35 weeks in,

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parents might.

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Not will,

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might

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be able to handle a skill.

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But we're certainly going to give them a whole bunch of philosophical stuff first,

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foundational stuff first,

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because let's

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just

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be very blunt.

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Not that I'm really anything other than that,

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but

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let's be really blunt.

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If a parent executes

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a choice

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on paper

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according to the script,

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you can choose A,

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you can choose B,

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which do you choose?

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And it's a contrived choice,

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said with an attitude,

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said with intolerance and frustration,

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and one of the choices isn't actually a choice,

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so it's manipulative in tone.

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The parent quote executed choice giving,

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and we quote taught them a skill,

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but it was a failure.

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So we're trying to help them understand the whole purpose

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of these skills long before we actually teach the skills.

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OK,

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so,

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let me get back to this.

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And then you encourage parents to invest in therapy for themselves.

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Yes,

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and amen 100 times over.

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One of the most helpful things that we can do for parents

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and one of the most helpful things parents can do for their children

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is to go to their own therapy and for us to recommend it.

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That is a crucial component.

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My favorite families,

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my all-time favorite families

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are parents that are in therapy themselves.

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I call them my therapized parents,

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and I adore working

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with therapized parents.

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Because

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they're self-aware,

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they're self-actualized,

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they value therapy.

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They have seen it work in their own lives,

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so they're patient while it's working in their children's lives.

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They are receptive.

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They are unguarded.

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They are vulnerable.

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They're all the things

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that make it easier to

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work with a parent

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if they've been in therapy themselves.

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So,

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yes,

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of course,

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we're going to encourage that.

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And

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I agree with you.

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If they don't go to therapy themselves,

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they do have a hard time incorporating CCPT principles because

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it's really hard to

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extend to your children what you're not extending to yourself.

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CPRT talks about that too.

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How are you going to extend grace and forgiveness and

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patience and kindness and love and tolerance to your child

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if you don't extend those things to yourself?

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You give out of the overflow,

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not the vacuum.

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So

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there's no way that parents can do that,

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and that's,

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that's an expected outcome.

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So we share that with parents.

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You will be better,

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your relationship with your children will be better,

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your child will be better,

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your family will be better.

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Everything will be better if you go to therapy.

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And some will bite,

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some won't,

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but we try.

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So,

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your questions,

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Tammy,

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does this impact the progress of the client by slowing it down?

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Yes and no.

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So,

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a child's going to self-actualize

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according to their pace,

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their way,

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their time.

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A child is going to self-actualize because CCPT works.

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A child is going to self-actualize because of the conditions,

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which are the special playroom and the special relationship with you.

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So as long as all of that is still in play,

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a child's going to make progress.

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But it can be difficult for a child.

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To conquer something like anxiety,

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for example,

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when they're constantly surrounded by an anxious parent

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and they watch anxious mannerisms and behaviors.

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So yes,

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it influences,

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maybe slows it down a little,

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but we know that it still works in the midst of a circumstance like that.

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Does it possibly make it able to not improve

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beyond a certain point was your next question.

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Here's the illustration that I typically give.

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If you think about two posts on a

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pathway,

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so,

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one post is down on the right,

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one post is down on the left,

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and you can visualize the parent standing at the left

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post and the child standing at the right post,

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and you start the CCPT journey,

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the child starts moving toward the parent.

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So,

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child is becoming more self-actualized,

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child is becoming more regulated,

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child is able to self-control.

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Child is able to build an emotional vocabulary,

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child is able to comply with limits.

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So they're moving toward the parent.

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And if the parent starts doing their work,

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not necessarily that they're in therapy,

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but they are willing to change.

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They are willing to work,

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they are willing to grow.

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You give them strategies and tips and tools and skills,

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and they actually implement them.

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They actually care

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about doing their part.

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So I'm not exclusively saying they have to be in therapy.

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I'm saying the parent is willing to work

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in whatever capacity the work is needed.

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They are willing to do the work.

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So they show up,

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they listen,

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they implement,

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they try,

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they are patient,

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they're committed,

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they're invested.

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You,

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you have all of those factors.

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They start to walk toward

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00:10:43,469 --> 00:10:44,250
the child

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on this proverbial path here.

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So,

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parent is walking toward child,

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child is walking toward parent,

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00:10:50,669 --> 00:10:52,049
and there's a meeting in the middle.

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If parent never moves,

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00:10:55,039 --> 00:10:57,340
if parent stays at that left post.

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The child is going to walk toward the parent,

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00:11:00,299 --> 00:11:03,679
but eventually reach a point where the child can't grow anymore.

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The child can't change anymore.

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The child can't make any other adjustments.

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00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:10,840
The child has gone as far as the child can go.

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00:11:11,619 --> 00:11:13,159
And if the parent stayed.

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00:11:13,989 --> 00:11:15,419
As a statuette

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00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:16,799
or a statue

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00:11:17,119 --> 00:11:18,580
down at the left post,

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00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,500
you'll never have the outcomes that could have been.

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00:11:21,719 --> 00:11:23,820
It's not that the outcome still won't be positive.

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00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:25,309
It's just,

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00:11:25,390 --> 00:11:26,530
it could have been better.

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So that's one of the illustrations that we share with parents.

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If you are willing to put in the work,

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00:11:31,989 --> 00:11:33,989
your child is obviously willing to put in the work.

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00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:35,650
They come and do the work every week.

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00:11:36,309 --> 00:11:38,940
If you put in the work and the child is willing to put in the work,

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you meet in the middle

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00:11:40,909 --> 00:11:42,169
and that's the

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00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:43,690
most favorable outcome.

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00:11:44,530 --> 00:11:46,359
That's helpful for parents to understand.

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But

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00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,500
what we know about CCPT.

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00:11:50,179 --> 00:11:53,700
Is that the child self-actualizes no matter what

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00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:55,679
does or doesn't change in the child's world.

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00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:58,169
Because that's always a concern.

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Parents will say,

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00:12:00,390 --> 00:12:01,650
guardians will say,

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00:12:01,950 --> 00:12:02,849
lawyers will say,

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00:12:03,390 --> 00:12:04,510
caregivers will say,

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00:12:04,789 --> 00:12:05,390
fill in the blank,

365
00:12:05,429 --> 00:12:06,289
stakeholder.

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00:12:06,869 --> 00:12:06,989
Well,

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00:12:07,109 --> 00:12:07,489
look,

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00:12:07,789 --> 00:12:11,940
this kid is never going to not go home to that alcoholic dad.

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00:12:12,309 --> 00:12:12,969
So

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00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:16,609
if this kid is constantly dealing with an alcoholic father,

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00:12:17,429 --> 00:12:20,950
how is CCPT going to help if we don't address the dad's drinking?

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00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:22,609
Well,

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00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:22,919
yes,

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00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:23,320
of course,

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00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,219
ideally dad addresses drinking,

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00:12:25,429 --> 00:12:27,380
but if dad doesn't address drinking,

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00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,700
child's going to build resilience

378
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:30,869
and coping

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00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,239
and self-esteem

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00:12:32,479 --> 00:12:34,010
and emotional vocabulary

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00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,419
and self-control

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00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:38,559
and going to start seeing the world differently,

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00:12:38,799 --> 00:12:40,150
seeing the father differently,

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00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,710
seeing the drinking differently.

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00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,080
The child's going to start saying,

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00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:44,260
I'm going to be OK.

387
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:45,030
I'll,

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00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:45,979
I'll figure this out.

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00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:47,200
I like who I am.

390
00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:48,419
I know who I am.

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00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,000
I can handle this.

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00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:51,309
I can stay in control.

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00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:51,880
I can.

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00:12:52,210 --> 00:12:55,469
The child changes in the midst of the circumstances.

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00:12:56,909 --> 00:13:01,650
So CCPT's goal is never to change the environment or the circumstance for the child.

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00:13:01,909 --> 00:13:06,549
It's for the child to change in the midst of the environment and the circumstances.

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00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:07,849
Now,

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00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:08,409
of course,

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00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:09,049
we would love it,

400
00:13:09,130 --> 00:13:09,289
you know,

401
00:13:09,409 --> 00:13:10,219
white picket fence,

402
00:13:10,330 --> 00:13:11,219
we would love it

403
00:13:11,330 --> 00:13:12,950
if every single kid

404
00:13:13,650 --> 00:13:15,070
came from a family where

405
00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:18,770
everyone was working and everyone was self-actualizing,

406
00:13:19,010 --> 00:13:21,469
but that's not always possible and it's not always feasible.

407
00:13:22,669 --> 00:13:23,109
So Tammy,

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00:13:23,169 --> 00:13:24,469
I hope that answers your question.

409
00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:26,109
Thank you so much for sending that in.

410
00:13:26,190 --> 00:13:27,900
I appreciate being able to talk about that.

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00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:29,150
If y'all have questions,

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00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:29,950
please reach out to me.

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00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:30,809
I'd love to hear from you,

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00:13:30,909 --> 00:13:31,229
Brenna,

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00:13:31,239 --> 00:13:32,590
brenna@thekidcounselor.com

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I love y'all.

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00:13:33,390 --> 00:13:34,179
I hope you have a great week.

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00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:35,070
We'll talk again soon.

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00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:35,510
Bye.

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00:13:36,599 --> 00:13:40,390
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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00:13:42,719 --> 00:13:47,479
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.