Tori Clarke: Embracing the Journey: Discovering and Thriving with Autism in Adulthood

Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Podcast, hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some
will make you laugh, some will make you cry, Real
life people who will inspire and show that you are
not alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Joining us today is artist and poet Tory Clark. Hi, Tory,
how you doing today?
I'm good, I'm good, Tony, Tony, Tony, how are.
You, I'm doing great. Welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
It's a pleasure to have you here. So let's get started.
Far away, let's see what comes out of me today.
Well, I'm definitely anxious to hear, and I'm sure that
you've got a lot of things to tell our listeners
as well. So let's get started by I think you're
originally from London.
Correct, Yes, I'm not in London right now, but I
am born and bred Londoner and I live about an
hour or so away in Birmingham at the moment.
That's awesome. I've heard that's a great area. So when
was you first diagnosed as being artistic?
I was diagnosed last year, twenty twenty two, in the summer,
and that's not to say I wasn't fully aware of
it many decades before.
That's pretty interesting.
I've heard several stories where people have been diagnosed later
in life, and many of them because they either had
a son or a daughter or a relative that was
diagnosed and they noticed that they had some of the
same traits, so they got checked out and turned out
they were autistic as well.
Yeah, I've heard of that happening. It's very common. It's
usually through the child or you know, young family members
that a parent or somebody will really realize, oh, this
is me too.
So did you have that this is me too feeling
that made you want to go to the doctor and
get checked out to see what was going on in
your life?
Well? I had always felt different as a child, and
I know that many people can say they felt different,
but I felt there was something fundamentally missing in my
understanding of life. It seemed to me that everybody else
knew what to do, what to say, and how to
go about their life. And although I appeared like a
good child, a good pupil at school, I was struggling
and I couldn't put my finger on what it was.
I felt fundamentally that something was missing, and it was.
It was very, very hard. So when you grow up
like that, you you you create coping mechanisms, and you
create ways of surviving, and it can be so exhausting
and so draining, and you feel so great when you
get things right, and it's only by chance, so it's
impossible to maintain. And then when you get things wrong,
you don't understand why, and it feels like the most
awful thing in the world. It's catastrophic.
Wow, I just can't imagine the pain and emotions that
you went through, and especially at such a young age.
So how did you find or what did you find
to give you that inner strength to cope with it
on a day to day basis.
So I find with how I feel about things, there
are extremities, So it can I can feel such elation
for getting something right and fitting in and the complete
opposite for messing something up, not saying the right thing,
or not saying anything at all. So life was just
it felt like it was a gamble. Every day I
was gambling and every day I was losing.
That's tough to take at a young age, feeling like
you're losing, and lots of times when that happens, people
feel like there's no hope. However, the good thing that
happened is you did evolve, you found ways to cope,
and now you're here. And I think it's a great
thing because now you're telling your story and hopefully that
will inspire others to know that they can do it too.
Yeah, what was your original question? What led me? It
was the fundamental thing that something felt very wrong and
I did approach my doctors in my early thirties and
I was unfortunately, I was rebuffed, so I lost another
decade of my life. And when the medical rules changed
in England, when I went back ten years later at
the tender age of forty four, I was told I
could have an assessment and I would be on a
waiting list for two years, of which I was And
I then had the assessment and was diagnosed with autism
at the age of forty five and a half. So
that's but in answer to your question again, what led
me in my thirties to consider that it was autism
that I had was that I was working with children
and one of the children was diagnosed with At that point,
it was referred to as a spurgism. I thought, well,
what's that? And I looked up what it was, how
it presented itself in girls and boys, and I thought, bingo.
So because you was around a child that was diagnosed
as artistic, that gave you enough information by watching his
symptoms and doing your research on it, and you kind
of self diagnose yourself. So how was your emotions once
you had decided that you are indeed artistic?
Was a sad realization because I realized, oh, this isn't
going away. And so I had like ten years to
digest all of this and understand all of this before
that I then had a diagnosis. It's all very strange.
It all feels very weird, and I don't think it's
anything that anybody should rush into. It's a learning process.
And I'm still, to this day Tony on a daily
basis understanding my own autism and what autism is. And
I'm also noticing ah ah, so when I do something,
I'm like, I realized, and I forgive myself. I just laugh.
I just let it go rather than beat myself up
about it.
That's really good that you found a way to cope
with it that way. So many people can't find that
coping mechanism and they have a rough time. So with
that said, did you have any support from friends or
family or teachers that might be able to help you
knowing that something wasn't quite right?
No? No, no, no, I don't think. I didn't think
when I was at school, it wasn't known to me
that the teachers were thinking something's a little bit off
and I might need support. I wasn't aware of any
of that being available, And when we went to school,
we got on with it. And there isn't the sort
of help and reassurance that I hope that children have today,
regardless of any diagnosis they may or may not have.
I just think, you know, the world very much more
aware of how we feel, and it's okay to speak
about feelings and things like that. But no, there wasn't.
There wasn't support. I just got on with it.
Well, of course, you know, twenty years ago, and I've
talked with many people that have told me this that
in like twenty years ago, autism wasn't as well known
as recognized as it is today, And people that were
going into that that education or doctoring or anything that
was associated with autism, they didn't have when they went
to college, they didn't have any they didn't have a
lot of subjects that developed on that, so they were
still learning. So now you fast forward to today and
it's a completely different, different approach the way they do it.
So, so if you.
Was diagnosed last year and you kind of kind of
you know, you kind of self taught yourself and and
and learned how to deal with different situations that you
were in once you was diagnosed, how did did that
change your life? Did that change your thought process? How?
How did you how did you cope with that at
that point?
So when I was diagnosed, I felt very happy on
the day, and I felt kind of a bit strange afterwards.
And then I'll be honest, Tony, there was there was
a trick a few months. There was almost like a
grieving process. There was anger, there was mixed emotions that
came up, and I think sort of it took many
months for me to really understand what this meant and
what it is. And once I had fully and officially
associated that diagnosis with me and felt no shame about it.
That's when I really feel I managed to start healing
myself and to let go to the point where I
made some quite drastic changes in my life and I
thought I must put myself first my health. The cost
of particularly girls, masking their autism and trying to fit
in and just trying to be lucky every day, the
cost of that is immense on a woman's health. And
you know, there are all sorts of things that can occur,
like you know, inflammation and stomach problems, ands and migraines
and ibs and you know, lots of depression, anxiety, all
of that comes into play. So those are just like
the side orders that you get with a big serving
of autism that have just sort of masked what was
really going on.
Wow, that's a lot to take in and that's a
lot to absorb and figure out. So with everything that
was happening in your life, did you find ways to
cope with it and did you find ways of removing
some of that toxic environment that could help you get
on with your life? What are some of the changes
that you might have made.
So I took some drastic measures and I was in
a I would say, a very intense career and a
job and everything. So I've called myself back away from
that so that I can spend my time I'm healing
for as long as it takes, and also to go
back to my first love, which is drawing. And now
I seem to be writing poetry, which has really helped
me in the last three years to process my thoughts
because I felt that once I'd stopped the noise of
trying to fit in that these kind of I could
hear myself think and these words would come up and
they would rhyme, and sometimes they would make me laugh.
And sometimes I think, well, I need to share this,
so I'd write it down, or sometimes I would get
rhymes from talking to friends, like I would be messaging friends'
responses to questions and things, and I would think and
what my response would be like a poem, and I
would then make that into a poem so to see
that if I share it, it may be of some
benefit to somebody else. So I think I've had spent
my whole life in my head to thinking, and now
I'm sharing those thoughts with the world. I am a
deep thinker. I think about everything and every detail and
every intricate feeling of things, and I can't quite describe it.
But when the words come into my head now I
have to stop everything and I write them down because
there's a rhythm to them, and it just feels so
nice to get to get the pones out.
Yeah, well, I think you know, the analogy that you
usedtar is that noise. I think that's really a key
thing because because everybody, everyone has certain things that affect
them and and for you to say that, you know,
compare noise to fitting in, I think that's that's pretty intricral,
you know, to to other people.
Because the main the main goal of this.
Podcast is to is to share thoughts and and different
different approaches for for people around the world to deal
with autism. And my goal is that like like, if
you're sitting in London, you know, we're having this conversation,
and then and then somebody in New York or la
or Spain or wherever the place may be, here's what
you're going through and what you've gone through and how
you approach it. They might just feel like, oh I
felt that way, or you know, then make maybe they'll
feel less alone that way. So I think that's really
really I think you've really put across really good.
Now.
You sent me that poem that you that you mentioned
you sent me one that I really thought was really good,
you know, And and I thought that that just your
thought process and the way that that that you wrote it,
and and and the way that you approached it, I
think that that could be something that that you know,
people that even aren't you know, in the autistic world,
might be able to listen to and and and and
get a better understanding. Because that's another thing that I'm
trying to do with this podcast is bring a higher
level of understanding to people around the world about autism
and how it affects people and how they react and
how they integrate and do all that. So if you
have that poem, I'd love to have you share it
with everyone.
Sure, I'm just looking for it now. And I do
want to say as well that when you mentioned about
feeling less alone and feeling like you're not the only
one in whatever situation, diagnosis, whatever thing is you think
you may have, that is that was pivotal in me
in the next stage of my life in really feeling
okay about myself. And I don't want to get too morbid,
but it was. It was. It's a deal breaker. It's
an absolute deal breaker. I'm going to stay and I'm
going to thrive. I am going to make sure that
I enjoy the rest of my life and that I
find coping strategies and I find a network of wonderful
people that understand me, and I can have fulfilling friendships
like everybody else. And so yes, it's very important. And
I urge anyone who is listening to this right now
who feels that they are alone, don't be afraid to
reach out to me or to anybody that you feel
may understand what you're going through, because that's what I did, Tony.
I reached out to somebody who I thought may understand
what I'm going through. And that was the turning point
in my life. And I honestly believe I'm here today
because I reached out and I made that move, that
bold move. So I found the poem called autism awareness.
Oh that's great, I'm glad you found it. So, okay,
you've got the stage here. It is autism awareness.
Autism awareness. Not everyone is aware of autism. It's far
less obvious than you can imagine some of us kept
it so hidden that life became a cataclysm. Is that
when animals are like humans? No, that's anthropomorpheism. Autism is
when your brain takes him messages from the world very differently,
and sometimes there are no messages at all, and it
can feel like big chunks of life's explanations haven't been
given at all. So how do you live and how
do you cope with great difficulty? And some of us don't.
What makes you happy? Then? Kind people, patience and smiles.
It may take me a while in a social situation
to decide my reply deep deliberation, as I rely on
the script in my head and sometimes I don't even
know what the heck I just said. So be aware
that all of us live beyond this month of awareness,
every autistic day of the week.
Wow, I really like that.
When you first sent me that poem, I heard it
and I just kind of fell in love with it
because it kind of says everything that you need to say.
It says how people are different but yet the same.
It tells how the thought process is. It tells how
kindness can help make people feel better. I mean, you
just covered everything very important though, is how you covered
the fact that it's not just a day or a month,
it's a lifelong thing. And I think the biggest thing
that we have right now is to get more understanding
so that way the people that are aware of it
and accept it understand it, and then that might make
it just a little bit easier for everybody to live
in this world.
Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. No, thank you for your feedback.
And I agree with you. It's like, Okay, I'm aware
that there are sharks in the sea, but I don't
understand them, and I don't know all of their names.
We're aware of everything, aren't we. You're absolutely right, but
how can we help when we don't understand? And that's
the key point that you've said, is that because I
think people have the wrong impression of what autism is.
I think some people may think it a learning difficulty.
It's not a learning difficulty. It doesn't it doesn't leave,
it doesn't stay in the classroom. It follows you all
the way home, and it sits with you when you eat,
sits with you on the bus. It's it's it's it's
you are autistic, right, It's not just it's not just
for the classroom. And I think if more people understand that,
you know, lunch times might be a bit of a
tricky thing for autistic kids. Who am I going to
sit with? Who am I going to eat? Have I
got my Have I got the same thing? For lunch?
Is everything I'm eating bland? You know, there's so many
things to to to consider, you know, the clothing labels, everything.
Is there a change that the change of root for
a child or even an adult may throw somebody off
the entire day. So yes, I like that. And I
think if we all work together and have more understanding,
then autism will not even feel like a difference or
anything like that. Yeah, just everyone blends in.
Yeah, yeah, because because you know, I keep telling people
that that. You know, people that aren't autistic they have
they're they're all different. You know, there's and there there's something.
I mean, I had an interview yesterday where I was
talking with a person and I said, you know, there
we'll run into people that aren't autistic and they and
and you'll look at them and go, how do they
make it in this world? You know, because because they
just act so goofy, you know, and that's just their
natural state. So when when people the unfortunate part I
think of autism. And I had this conversation just last
night with a person that works with autistic children, and
she told me that that it used to be that
autism was like this death sentence or or it's like
people thought that, oh, I'm so sorry that your child
is autistic, and and you would come back and shaid, well,
I'm not because because he's this or he's that, you know. So,
so I think that I think we have to take
that cloud away from from that word, so that so
that people realize that just because someone may be autistic
doesn't mean that they can't can't you know, function, doesn't
mean they can't integrate into our society, doesn't mean that
that they're bad people. It just means that they're a
little different than us, and that's all it is, you know.
So if you can take and build that so that
so that just like you said that, everybody, everybody can
you know, work together and get to get along together,
then all of a sudden it's not a big thing.
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, And then I think I think the
future is positive because I think that's just the way
we're going. There's more and there will be more understanding.
If you imagine in ten years timetime, we look back
at this podcast and we think, oh, my goodness, the
worlds learned so much more about autism, and and now
it's not it's not really it's not even an issue
or a problem. It's just it's a wonderful thing. And
that would that would be great. And I really think
that we will get to that point with people like
yourself and me, And there's so many people that are
working hard on wonderful research and different things to make
the world better for autistic people and and ultimately for
for the friends and family of autistic people as well.
So it can be.
Harmonious, absolutely, and that's just a really great way to
look at it. So after all these years, now, do
you have anything that you kind of sit back and
you might think about that will just kind of make
your laugh, you know, bring the smile to your face.
If you do, could you share it with us? Yeah?
I do have a funny story. Actually, were of them
is when I was when I was younger, I shared
a bedroom with my younger brother and every morning my
mum would come in and draw the curtains and let
the sun in, and she would say it's a great
day for the human race. And I was so confused.
I would say to her, what race? What race? And
she said the human race, and I remember her going
on and on and I just never got it. But
I took it as life was a race. So what
I started doing was just running really fast everywhere. I
just ran everywhere, and I actually became the fastest runner
at my primary school, and I became exceptionally fast. And
I think, I think it's down to that statement, because
I would say, if I ran round to the shop
on the corner, I would try and get there in
under ten seconds, and I would try and beat my
personal best every day, and so things like that when
I look back now and I think, oh, now I
understand what my mum meant by that. But there are
there are There is a lot of funny stories of
me in situations. Some of them can't be repeated because
I've got the wrongs. Some of them are sad, some
of them are funny. But I look back now and
when I get those memories of things, I just but
I burst out laughing, and I kind of often be
on my own laughing and I'm laughing about something that
I realize what was happening like say, twenty years ago,
and it is funny.
Yeah, that's that's awesome because because the one thing that
I'm hoping people get out of this this episode is
that is that you know you can find ways to
survive and this you can. You can you can take
and and and go through your thoughts and all and
process and and and you can. And I think the
biggest thing is that is that you can transition into
the world and just live your life. And the key
thing that I think that you that you brought up
is is that you found a way to be happy
with what you're what you're doing.
Yes, definitely, once I am instinctively Tony. I knew years
ago what kind of life I wanted. I wanted a
slower pace of life. I didn't want to be in
a situation where I had to think about a job.
Twenty four seven and at the weekends, I knew exactly
what I needed. And it's like my body was kind
of giving up so that I could get to that
point where I had no choice but to take a
slower pace of life. And I'm very very happy for it.
So I would say to anyone that if you feel
that your life is really really hard and really really struggling.
See if there's a way that you can reduce or
get more help so that you don't have to struggle
so much alone. I think I have an advantage because
I was able to think of just myself, Like I
don't have children, so I was kind of lucky in
that respect to understand. It must be harder for other
people with full on situations that they can't remove themselves from,
but there is always an easier way to live.
Yeah, I think I think that's probably the most important
thing is is we as a society gets wrapped up
in the fast pace and it's like kind of going
back to your analogy of I have to outrun myself.
I have to take and beat my personal best, and
you really don't. All you have to do is find
a comfort zone that works for you and then build
around that and then you can allow whatever whatever or
whoever you want within that circle so that you can
still live the life that you want to.
Yeah. Absolutely, Can you say that again, Tony? What was
it the comfort zone? Yes?
Yeah, yeah, finding that comfort zone that you can live within,
because because everyone has has their their place that they
go to so they can they can you know, re
energize and that's kind of what I'll call, you know,
the comfort zone. So if you have that comfort zone,
then once you've re energized, you can go back into
the world and allow the people or the things that
you want into it so that you can maintain you know,
your so called sanity.
I guess yes, absolutely, Oh yeah, definitely, I'm definitely I'm
definitely in my comfort zone at this point in my
life for the first time ever, and it feels really good.
Definitely, that's awesome, and I'm just so happy that you
have found your comfort zone. There's so many people out
there that are still struggling to find there is and
hopefully one day they find it.
Yeah. Absolutely, and that's what's important in Every human deserves
to have a fulfilled life, whatever that looks like, but everybody,
everybody needs that.
Everybody absolutely. Thank you for coming on today. I really
appreciate it. Great conversation, great information, and if this conversation
can help one person, it's been a true success.
Thank you, Tony. It's been an absolute pleasure and look
forward to helping as many people as.
It can me too. Great conversation. It's been awesome.
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