Pushing 'Next Man Up' Principle

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hi, This is Chase Utley and this is the Phillies Show. Hi, everybody, Welcome to The Phillies Show with Ruben Tomorrow Junior, Jim Salisbury.

00:00:21
Speaker 2: I'm Todd's lucky.

00:00:22
Speaker 1: It is Friday, June twenty eighth, twenty twenty four. The Phillies Thursday night reached the halfway point of their season. They played eighty one games. They have the best record in baseball. They are on pace to win one hundred and six games for the season, which would be a franchise record.

00:00:39
Speaker 2: But it was kind of a disaster of a night for the Phillies.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: Potentially probably Spencer Turnbull earlier in the day goes on the fifteen day injured list with a strained right lat He's gonna miss six to eight weeks.

00:00:50
Speaker 2: And then late in the game.

00:00:52
Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber leaves because of left groin tightness. And then in the final play of the game, Bryce Harper pulls up lame as he's running the first base with a left hamstring injury. The Phillies said they will know more on Friday, which is today, But man, oh man, and talk about it coming fast and furious. You know, you lose Turnbull, you already have Walker on the Angel list. Now you're gonna have Michael Mercato get into the rotation. But losing Harper and Schwarber potentially that that's going to be tough to overcome.

00:01:25
Speaker 3: It was your proverbial ship show yesterday on so many levels. I mean we're talking about I mean, we're talking about on so many doves from nine o'clock on. I mean, things discuss disastrous on on the for the country and and for the Phillies. But I gotta say, I gotta say this, if there's a team that can handle the and be resilient enough to be able to handle this kind of stuff, I think it's the Phillies that said, you know sometimes you know, this is a war of attrition, and you know, one of the biggest concerns that Rob Thompson had, I'm sure as a GM Dave Debrowski, you're a president of Baseball offs all those guys in the front office, is okay, we got to worry about injury. Now you've got them piling up at a ridiculous rate. Now, the fact that they happen this early is actually not the worst thing in the world. JT happened early. He should be back. Turner's stuff happened early. He's back and playing, but you know, keep losing guys like this, and it makes it very, very tough. I mean, the rest of the rest of the league at some point may be catching up again. I say this in so much that they're the Phillies, have the ability and have had the next man up and mentality. But when you start getting like the next three men up or four men up, it gets a little daunting. My biggest concern is a pitching. I'm less concerned about the offense. I'm more concerned about the pitching because now you've lost Taiwan Walker to a blister or a hot spot and he can't throw a split and it's not very good, and he hasn't been very good. And then you have Spencer Turnbull, who's going to be sort of like the savior in that rotation, and now he's down. So the next man up and mentality becomes a little bit more difficult when you have to go with the Michael Mercado, who's I like him, but he's not a you know, proven guy, and so you start talking about starting pitching depth. It becomes a little bit more daunting for the guys, Jim.

00:03:31
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, next man up is a beautiful thing to say. It's a great quality for a team to have, and this team has indeed had it. You know. He lost Harper for a good stretch in twenty twenty two with the thumb injury, the broken thumb, and then he had the elbow. But they've overcome losses to key players before. They are tough. They are resilient. But even the toughest and most resilient team has its limits. And you're looking at real Mudo Schwarber for all the handwringing early in the season about you know, is he a good leadoff man? Can this team survive with him in the leadoff man? He's been exceptional. They've done a great job. Look at the record, Look at the basis centers they've done. Look at the Knights. They jump out to one nothing leads or have big first innings and demoralize the other team instantly. And Harper been the best player in baseball pretty much since May one. He was the player of the month in May, is maybe going to be the player He might be the player of the month in June. Even with this huge losses. There are limits, you know, the goofiest cliche. Guys are going to have to step up, but you can only absorb so many losses. They have to hope neither one of these is serious. I think there's a chance that Schwarber's is not. That seemed to have a precautionary bent to it, but it was quite alarming. As you know, Harper's accelerating to the bag, all of a sudden, he's grabbing his left hamstring that had the look of a pop or something acute, even if it's mild like the old grade one. You're looking at three to four weeks, right, so we have to wait till what comes back in terms of the evaluations. But it didn't look good. Injuries continue to test this team, Injuries to core important important pieces. But this team has been built since day one on starting pitching and knock on wood, and thank goodness, you know, just this week they've had a couple of setbacks in the starting pitching, but not to the bedrock of that rotation, not to the elite level talent that has that you've built this team on it, that has carried this team so far. But you know there are limits. You have to hope these things pass quickly and they are not serious. But I love where the team is at the halfway point. Eight games up pays for one hundred and eight wins. But these are little things. Yeah, you gotta you gotta take them serious, and you've gotta be a little concerned about it because these are such important guys.

00:06:01
Speaker 2: Rubin, So you said you're more concerned about the pitching.

00:06:03
Speaker 1: Is it because you're concerned about if something happens to the other four guys, who's going to step up?

00:06:09
Speaker 2: Or are you more concerned about the number five?

00:06:11
Speaker 1: And I don't say that because I feel like the first four guys in that rotation are so good they could you know, they can handle Michael Mercado potentially right or whoever, however long it goes. So what's what's your concern with the rotation? Because when I looked at I was like, oh Man Harper and if they lose Arpurn Schorber, that's a killer for the offense.

00:06:29
Speaker 5: But you feel differently, Yeah, to me, it's about whether or not they lose one of the core play those other core four. And when I say four four, you know we're talking about Nola, Wheeler, Sanchez and Suarez. I mean we lose one of those those Phillies who lose one of those guys, and you're talking now, we're starting as talk disastrous.

00:06:50
Speaker 3: Right now, it's it's really super concerning. But then you start losing, then you start losing multiples of those pieces, and especially in the rotation, then it becomes disastrous. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's so important for Dave Dombrowski to wait and to settle in and to surmise what his real needs are going to be as we get closer and closer to that trade deadline, because these are the things that happen. It's one hundred and sixty two games. And you know, when I was in this position to be a buyer, you know, you sort of, Okay, we needed a right fielder, we needed a new starter, we needed whatever. But you sort of have to wait to see as close to the deadline as you possibly can, and sometimes you're forced to do it because there's so many teams, especially now there's so many teams sort of in the wild card race, and you don't know who's going to be selling, who's buying. But in this case, in the Phillies case, I mean, you got to really assess what do I really need. God forbid they have a blowout in one of those core for starters, then you're gonna go get a start. That's what you're gonna do, because if you got Turnbull down, you got an ineffective Taiwan Walker. Now you have to build for if you're thinking about winning the World Series, you need another start first and foremost. Right now, I'm you know, I'm all about pitching. I'm always about pitching, because at some point those players who pulled their hamstrings or got those soft tissue injuries, they'll be back. That doesn't worry me nearly as much as making sure the guys on the mound can keep guys and they can keep this team in the in the game, as they have done so well this year.

00:08:38
Speaker 2: So Michael Mercato, I guess they haven't.

00:08:40
Speaker 1: Phillies have an off day on Monday, so they could skip the fifth starter, so Mercado could make two or three depending on what they do with the rotation before the break, and then after that, who knows. But you talk about like depth behind you know that your concerns with depth. I was looking at just the Triple A performers right now, maybe the next guy up if something would happen, you know, is Rob Thompson likes to say, if somebody takes a shinberger, a line drive comebacker off, you know, it has to leave a game earlier, miss a game or two or something like that. Colby Allard, he's on the forty man roster. He was not good. Yeah, they took him off the roster and put him on the He's back now, uh four one five ERA in his last seven appearances in Triple A two four ninety eight his last four games. So based on the fact that he's on the forty man and he's pitching relatively well, he'd probably be the next guy up. But then you're looking at Tyler Phillips, who Dave Dombrowski loved in spring training seven and three fourty eight nine with the Iron Pigs, David Buchanan four and three, five one nine ERA.

00:09:39
Speaker 2: That would be an awesome story, but you know we're not.

00:09:42
Speaker 1: Phillies are trying to win games, not you know, make awesome stories.

00:09:46
Speaker 2: The killer, I think is just Mick Abel. He's he is.

00:09:49
Speaker 1: It's it's killing him. It's killing him. Like he would be the guy right now. That would be up if he was doing what everybody expected to do. He's one in seven seven point zero eight e RA in twelve starts the season, and his last five starts a nine points seven zero ARA, eighteen walks, seventeen strikeouts in twenty one in the thirty innings in this last five games, he's walked more than he has struck out.

00:10:13
Speaker 2: So that's that's a that's a that's a kill.

00:10:16
Speaker 4: This is the time he should be knocking at the door and blowing down the door in terms of he's been around enough a little bit where there should be some signs of readiness. I'm not saying all the way, but from signs of readiness, and there is a need, you know, and he's just not doing it. I think back to Kyle Kendrick in OH seven. You know, he came up and filled the breach when they had a problem there. They need kind of somebody like that at least at the ready. If another need arises, and certainly if Mercata is not the answer, there will be a need because uh, you know, Turble's going to need more time. This is how injuries go. He comes out of the game the other day with a little tightness and out at six eight weeks.

00:11:01
Speaker 2: Or six weeks yeah, six eight weeks yeah.

00:11:03
Speaker 4: Kids, So you never know until the evaluation happens. But uh, Mick Abel's inability to throw strikes at the core of pitching, throws strikes right at the most fundamental thing the pitcher needs to do is throw strikes, and he's not doing it. It's just really a head scratcher.

00:11:21
Speaker 3: So here's so, here's where if I'm sitting there, I'm a GM and I have another injury and I have to replace a player, especially on the mound. I need to get somebody I can trust. And when I say trust, someone I know will be able to step on the mound at a major league game and be able to throw a strike. And it doesn't matter with two different pitches, whether it's a fast ball or slide. I need somebody who can throw strikes, and I need somebody who can keep me in the baseball game for five innings with this offense. Now, the offense is taking a strike, taking a couple of hits. But I'm going to go to a guy like Buchanot because I know the guy's going to get up there and throw a strike, or somebody that I know is going to or someone else. But I say like Buchanan because just as you said, Jim, you know, we brought Kyle Kendrick to the big leagues because we figured, you know what, he's gonna throw a sinker, We're gonna catch it when they hit it on the ground, and we're gonna get it out. And that's exactly what Kyle Kendrick did. And he didn't do anything dazzling, little sinker, little slider, occasional change up, but he got the ball on the ground in the eight up innings. And that's what you needed somebody to do. And I think a guy like David Buchanan, that's why you have a guy like that. Hopefully a Kobe Albert. Albert can throw enough strikes to get on the mound and throw a strike. And if they can't, and they you know, they have somebody who cannot do that, then that's troublesome. And so if somebody were to go down, I think that's the at least short term answer, someone who who they can feel they can trust. Rob Thompson, Caleb Cotham, Dave Dombrowski, the guy can stand on that bump it all strike all right?

00:13:01
Speaker 4: Can I can I ask this question, Uh, just to backtrack and get off the pitching from me, go back to Harper and give me a quick answer, because this very well could be probably will be dated. But as we sit here on Friday morning, how long do we think Harper is going to be out? Ruben?

00:13:17
Speaker 3: The man doesn't bruise, and the man doesn't swell. He's never fit. I mean, he's a superman. And so if it's if it's a it's a Grade two, it's six weeks. If it's a Grade one, it's three weeks.

00:13:29
Speaker 4: Todd, how long is price Hopper out?

00:13:31
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say three to four weeks. If it looked I mean it just it looked really bad. But you were right, Ruben, He's had some injuries where it looks.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: Awful and next thing you know, he's back.

00:13:40
Speaker 3: You know, he's a cyborg.

00:13:41
Speaker 2: The man's a cyborgs a cyborg. Jim, what do you think?

00:13:44
Speaker 4: I I and what I know about hamstrings? And he's an explosive guy with his legs. I mean, I know Marsh made it back quick, but his was quite mild. But you know, turn are still he's not running full speed, which is a little arksome. I know he's protecting it, but I'm gonna guess, as we sit here at having not heard the medical evaluation, they're gonna be without him for a month. I kind of hope I'm wrong that it's short of there. I think that's if it's.

00:14:17
Speaker 3: Not a crap, if it's not a cramp, it's six weeks. Okay, it's not a cramp, and it's a Grade two, it's six to eight weeks, So what do they do? And if it is a Grade one, as I said, it's going to be three weeks or.

00:14:29
Speaker 1: Four weeks, Okay, So say Harper goes on the injur list, which we all kind of expect, Cody Clemens probably gets recalled. He's on a rehab assignment. He is healthy, so he probably gets recalled. That's how do you handle first base? You go with Clemens and Alec Bohm. I hate moving Alec Bohmer to first base. And I know that that defensive metrics aren't they're very scattershot. But I think he's a better third baseman than he is a first baseman. I would love to keep him at third base, but you can't have I don't know if you can have Cody Clemens hit against left hand of pitching. What do you how do you handle first base for how however long Harper might miss with Marriorfield.

00:15:05
Speaker 3: With Marrorfield plays first base, and they're playing him at first base, and they're against the lefty, and Cody Clemens is going to do it against the righting, that's what you're saying. That's where I and I know with Marriorfield hasn't swung the battle that well, but he's gonna have to continue to get I mean, they got to try to find a way to get him hot or viable or someone who's productive. And I think that's the way to do it right now.

00:15:27
Speaker 4: Even with the way Sosa swung it while Trey Turner was out, you're not gonna put Sosa at third, you know, more often and and.

00:15:34
Speaker 6: Move Bome over the first I don't I they may do that, but I feel and I think Sosa can still get starts at shortstop and at second base. I think Maryorfield's gonna go play first base because they got to the against something out of.

00:15:50
Speaker 4: It might be a you know, it's certainly an interesting idea and has merit as a way, almost like an investment to try to get him some pitches, get his eyes going, get his hands going, and get his bat going, because you really need to get something out of this guy.

00:16:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, because then you've gotta make a decision because if the guy doesn't, it doesn't produce, you may have to release the player. Because I mean, I love with Merrifield. I love the idea of having them, but it's about a production. If and if they give him enough at bats and he is now not you know, now he is not right using, then they're gonna have to get somebody who can do that job, and someone from the right side, because.

00:16:27
Speaker 4: Maybe the right side, the reps, the extra reps, the pick up and gained reps help him. If you do that, you bring him in, you sit him down, and you say, hey, I don't want you to worry about a damn thing and putting me out there every night, and you're gonna be our first basement for And mean, you're a veteran, you know you don't scare. You know you're gonna help us get through this tough time. Just what happens.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: It's not going to be against the lefty, it's not going to be against the right. He's I think he's gonna, like Cody Clements said, because Cody's did a nice job. He's done a nice job against the right anders when he's got a opportunit. But if there's any lefty and there's a chance to get him at bats, they're gonna they gotta find out. They got to find out really ultimately, whether he can be a productive at bat off the bench for this team because they need to win a World Series and they need to win with twenty six really good players. And if Maryfield is not producing in any way, shape or for him, I don't feel like they have comfort in him to be able to come off the bench and do some damage. They may have to make him a change.

00:17:26
Speaker 2: They might prove it either way.

00:17:28
Speaker 1: So, you know, Schwarber after the game last night said, I don't think it's anything super serious.

00:17:34
Speaker 2: You know, there's maybe, like I.

00:17:35
Speaker 1: Think somebody said, precaution more of a precautionary vibe to it. But let's say he goes on the injured list as well, just they just want to protect him because he's so valuable as well. You don't want him running around blowing out his groin or something like that.

00:17:48
Speaker 2: Now you're really digging deep into the bench.

00:17:49
Speaker 1: You've got Buddy Kennedy, who they just picked up, the grandson of Don Money Millville High School. He's been swinging a good bat in Triple A for the Iron Pigs. You got Wes Wilson.

00:18:01
Speaker 3: Uh.

00:18:01
Speaker 2: And you've got Johann Rojas who could come back.

00:18:03
Speaker 1: He's he just got sent down, but he could come back, you know, because of the injury. So you know, did did do you bring? How would you handle that? If Schwarber got down with the d H spot, with the outfield spot, just yeah, the leadoff spot.

00:18:19
Speaker 2: You know, you have Stott hit lead off, you'd have Turner hit lead off.

00:18:22
Speaker 1: That's that doesn't seem to be as serious, but that's that that's an interesting, interesting one as well.

00:18:29
Speaker 3: Sure, Jim, I.

00:18:32
Speaker 4: Wonder if you may look at Stot there a little bit. Yeah, but I think you'd have you'd have other options Turner, certainly, depending on maybe Alrighty left you or how you set up your lineup. But I mean Stott's another guy that I think needs to you know, they're halfway through the season. He's sputtered at times. Yeah, you know, when when when players go down, other players need to pick up the slock. It would be really good if he could get it going too, more toward what we expected of him this season, and we all, I think know it's in there, but they could certainly use more out of a guy like that. So I might be tempted at times to take a peek at him up in the leadoff hole.

00:19:15
Speaker 3: I mean, there's I think Scott's probably the guy. And if they don't think that, the if they don't think that Johann is ready to go now, he has done a pretty good job of getting some sacrifices down and and done some things. But I mean, ultimately, if you're not if you're not producing, man, you're you're it's not a gonna happen. I mean, you've got to leave him down there and let him and let him continue to develop. It's a tough position to put everybody in. And we talked about the next step, you know, the next guy up. I don't know that there's necessarily the next guy up. Turner's the guy. Put Turner in the one hole, let him go. Yeah, put Turner in one in the one hole, let him go, can do it?

00:20:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, who hits third?

00:20:07
Speaker 4: Who you're texting?

00:20:09
Speaker 3: I'm not texting anybody. I'm trying to figure out who's on the roster to be able to come up and help these guys.

00:20:16
Speaker 2: Who who do you who do you have hitting third?

00:20:18
Speaker 1: If Harper's Harper's on the injured list, as we as we expect.

00:20:24
Speaker 3: You go left right, you can go left right. I mean, I don't know, is it boom?

00:20:30
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:20:30
Speaker 3: Do you take the do you slide him out of the fore hole and put him in there? I don't know who goes into the four hole. It's you're in a bit of a conundrum when you're losing two guys in the top top three of your line.

00:20:45
Speaker 4: Everybody lost three actually with j C.

00:20:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my goodness.

00:20:50
Speaker 7: It's a conundrum. And Rob Thompson's gonna have to do some serious managing. I mean he's I mean, he's got a really good job of this. And again, you know, the guys have been really super resilient over the years.

00:21:07
Speaker 3: But there's almost there's you know, how much resilience can you have? That's the question.

00:21:15
Speaker 4: But didn't you feel like watching last night? You know, they get really sloppy towards the end of that game and they basically blow a win for Zach Wheeler.

00:21:27
Speaker 3: That's kind of sucked for him.

00:21:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was pissed at the umpire missed the call, extended the ending. All of a sudden, everything blows up on him and then and then just it was like injury to insult. It was like you know what else. It was almost surreal. So they come out of this on you know, later today on Friday, feeling like they got you know, two decent medical reports all things considered. Uh, that that's that's a win right there. But victory. They needed to catch that victory last time. I'm sorry. Even though your eight games up and have the best record in the nationally, you know, the game you're supposed to win, you're supposed to win, And that was one that they like.

00:22:09
Speaker 3: That away Man an astrominator. He's been outstanding, but you know he and and Hoffman and Show's Haffman, they gave it up. I mean, Hopman hangs a breaking ball.

00:22:19
Speaker 4: But they've been so good. Yeah, you know they're gonna have a bad way. I'm talking mostly about the defense. It's just got away from him.

00:22:30
Speaker 2: Well we'll get and lose.

00:22:32
Speaker 1: Later today on Harper and Schwarber, we know Turnbull's going to miss six to eight weeks. We know Walker will not be back until after the All Star break.

00:22:40
Speaker 2: So things are getting interesting.

00:22:41
Speaker 1: You know, it was like it was like the summer, the Great Summer of Phillies baseball.

00:22:45
Speaker 2: Everything was just going swimmingly.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: People were, people were, people were angry because you know, Turnbull wasn't in the rotation for Walker, and you know that was the big problem. Is you know, which solid number five starter can they put in there? And now it's now you're talking about. Is Buddy Kennedy going to be up later today?

00:23:04
Speaker 2: Is Wes Wilson? Is Johann Rojas? How long is Harper out for? How long is s warp out for?

00:23:10
Speaker 7: Uh?

00:23:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, they want to make a trade. Yeah, it was summer love. Now we don't know what it is.

00:23:16
Speaker 1: We will find We will find out later today and we'll be back.

00:23:19
Speaker 2: We'll be back on Monday. You know, maybe maybe maybe this is all for not and there everybody's fine.

00:23:27
Speaker 3: I'm nothing to see here.

00:23:28
Speaker 2: Nothing to see, nothing to see here. All is well, All is well.

00:23:33
Speaker 4: You guys, will you want to talk about golf handicaps?

00:23:37
Speaker 2: Not mine? Not mine either, No, no, no, not at all.

00:23:40
Speaker 3: Not good.

00:23:41
Speaker 2: We'll save that, We'll save that for another time.

00:23:43
Speaker 3: I'm going to go play some golf right now to try to lower a little bit more because it's been inflated.

00:23:48
Speaker 2: God bless you. We'll be back on Monday.

00:23:51
Speaker 4: Can carry your own bag.

00:23:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not carrying my bag, not doing it awesome ja.

00:24:05
Speaker 2: This is the Phillies Show.

00:24:07
Speaker 1: If you haven't already, please subscribe to The Phillies Show wherever you get your podcasts. You can also watch us on our YouTube channel. If you like what we do, give us a review, tell a friend, Catch Ubenjim and Me on Phillies Nation TV, presented by Valleyforge Tourism. New episodes air and hour before every Saturday Phillies game on NBC Sports Philadelphia. Replays air throughout the week and on Philliesnation dot com. Get more of Ruben's analysis during before and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Rejim at the Allcity Network at allphl y dot com. Find more of me at MLB dot com, the philliesb Newsletter, and occasionally on MLB Network