Rita Williams: How One Woman Transformed Personal Trauma into Criminal Justice Reform

Welcome to Why Not Me The World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Humanity over handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event today thrilled
to welcome Rita Williams, a distinguished strategist and consultant dedicated
to empowering mission driven organizations. Reader excels in crafting bold,
data informed programs, policies, and campaigns that are deeply rooted
in lived experiences. Her expertise lies in designing trauma informed,
equity driven initiatives, leading DEI transformations through justice informed leadership training,
and championing second chance hiring strategies. She also provides strategic
guidance on evidence based policy, grant development, and stakeholder engagement.
With a compelling personal story and a wealth of insights
to share, Reader is here to inspire and inform, So
if you could share some of your experiences and your
journey on how it led you to where you are today.
Yeah, so what got me into all of this?
It was I guess we'll start from when I was
a teenager is the easiest place if. I've always had
a love for what makes people tick, and as a result,
I thought I was going to grow up and be
a true crime writer. I wanted to be like and Rule.
She's actually still one of my heroes. And as I
grew up in gal Dolder, I realized writing does not
pay the bills and was talked into more practical workflow
and careers. I ended up becoming a public servant for
the federal government, finished a bachelor's degree, and it was
during the pandemic that I realized there's more to me
than all of this. There's more to me than this
problem solver. Where I want to go make a difference
in the world, And at that point in time, I
went and pursued a master's in criminal justice, hoping that
I could eventually transfer a department of justice. The plans
that life had for me were so much weirder because
my spouse ended up getting accused of a white collar
crime just two months after I graduated from my program.
Wow, that's too bad. That's just really unfortunate. What happened
from there?
Being educated, having a master's degree level education, believed I
have an idea of how the system works.
These are the things that should happen.
Then having a crash course with it, supporting somebody who
is now a defendant. I realized, no, this is not
at all the case. Things are very different than how
I perceived them to be.
So what were your thoughts now that you was involved
in the legal system.
Walking into it?
I tried to give everyone the benefit of a doubt, believing, hey,
these are professionals, they know what they're doing. I can
trust the powers that be. My spouse was talked into
a plea deal in October of twenty twenty three, or
I'm sorry, twenty twenty two. We get to January twenty
twenty three. He goes to sentencing believing we're going to
be okay out of all of this. He had just
started a woodworking business. We get there and he is
out of nowhere, sentenced to ten to twenty years in
prison by the judge.
Wow, that's just overwhelming.
Incredibly trumatic, but part of me, just in my gut,
I was like, something is other than what just happened
to me, something is very wrong here. It sparked a
need to find out what went so wrong. I ended
up finding out that this particular county where all of
this happened has a really long history of railroading people
mistreating people with disabilities, especially autism.
With the information that you're finding out, what was your
next steps from there?
I started publishing all of it. As a result of
that of looking for answers and trying to help people,
I've been able to really plug into an amazing community
and really just become who I am today, somebody who's
pursuing a doctorate in human services, trying to make the
system better, somebody who also still publishes about corruption and
still puts those pieces out and helps people when they
land in the middle of this not sure where to go.
So that's how I got here.
That's a great story. Now you mentioned writing. Are you
still writing? And if you are, how is that going well?
I do.
I still do a lot of blogging.
I also do a lot of content creation for I
work for a nonprofit called Resilience Education amazing people we
do both in prison education and then post incarceration support
of helping people.
Get back up on their feet. I still write daily.
I would be shocked to see if there is not
something that I can find to write about. There's always
something going on in the system. Unfortunately, there's always some
type of inequity, whether it's unfortunately the young man who
recently lost his life in Idaho who had autism, or
how does somebody get involved in court watching to prevent
judicial misconduct and be able to inform their community of
what's happening and help people make more informed decisions when voting,
whether it's through LinkedIn or connecting with people or on
my blog. Be careful what you wish for, right because
I did become a true crime writer.
Yes, you just never know what a future holds for you.
Now you mentioned autism. What brought up autism? Why did
you focus on that so much? Is there a reason
that that means a lot to you?
A big part of my spouse's case actually was what
plugged me into it. Of I had already known from
my education and then also from continuing ed that trauma
mental illness can play a very heavy role in the
presence of criminality, or what we define as a society
as criminality, because especially those judgment centers of your brain
may not be firing the way that they should be.
We found out actually after my spouse was incarcerated that
he had high functioning autism.
Suddenly it was like everything.
Clicked into place of like how sometimes he'd be looking
at me but not looking at me, or how his
thoughts would be like so much farther ahead than everybody else's.
Like we knew to an extent we were neurodivergent, like
I have ADHD and so do our children. But to
find out from another level that was going on, that's
when that collision course happened.
Of I had that foundation already of knowing.
About mental illness and issues, but then I guess not
just the connection close to home, but then also making
friends in the community and through my work, I started
to see how prevalent it was and how we don't
really talk about it as a society.
Okay, so a little birdie told me that you attacked
something or really went after it. They said, you was
quite the firestorm. Can you elaborate about that? If I
remember correctly, it was something like they said you can't
do anything about it. Then you just said watch me.
So there's nothing I hate being told more than you
can't do that. Yeah, me too, or there's nothing you
can do about it. And I'm like, oh really, because
there's always something you can do. There's always a way
you can advocate or work towards something and make the
system more equitable some of the things that I've seen
happen in the system, especially like in terms of like
prison misconduct or CEOs behaving badly. I guess the biggest
claim to fame is I actually had a prosecutor moved
from one county to another very secretly, very quietly, but
obviously being a data person, I'm tracking and seeing what's
going on, but knowing that they had actually covered up
and abused defendants for years and years. It was actually
because of Ryan, my spouse's case, that we were able to.
Uncover all of that.
And this guy has spent eighteen years damaging defendants lives
basically through plea bargains, through mismanaged and misdocumented plea bargains.
And I was like, I'm not going to stand by
and wait, and everybody was like, you can't say anything.
You can't publish that, And I'm like, why not. They're
an elected official, this is my tax dollars at work.
People deserve to know what's happening, and they deserve to
know before they get to the courtroom what the potential
outcomes are. Yeah, so I gained that reputation of I
don't believe you can tell me, like, no, there's nothing
I can do about it, because I'm going to expose
it one way or the other.
Yeah, that's great. So now that you've done that, what
has happened since? Has it opened doors to other things
for you as well?
In some ways it became a hurdle because I got
so good at it that I was actually hit with
retaliatory charges.
So that wasn't fun.
But I've had a lot of people who are like,
you're not crazy, a lot of people from the criminal
justice reform community, especially criminal defense lawyers, like you are
absolutely spot on in your observation. Then I also have
a lot of people come to me what do I
do next? Where do I go? How do I get help?
And so I've inadvertently had to start creating those resources
because there aren't any so walking people through. Hey, I
know that there is allegedly this agency that's supposed to
help you, but don't do that. Go here instead because
you're going to have a better outcome, Or find community
members in a particular area, like for example, resilience, people
who understand what you're going through and can help support
you on that next phase of life. Just helping people
kind of circumvent because there are people who can be
predatory out there and take advantage of those who don't
know the ins and outs.
Absolutely, now has that opened up the legal system more
to you, like lawyers, judges, even legislators. How do you
find that now moving forward?
Yes, absolutely it has. I've had some incredible opportunities. I've
been able to write testimony for some bills, especially here
in Michigan. One that we're working on right now with
Michigan Citizens for Prison Reform is ending solitary confinement because
it's a very mentally degrading experience, especially more so if
you're somebody who already suffers from autism. There's one of
those bills that we're getting ready to have. We're getting
ready to host a legislative day on May sixth, where
I'll be there to help get people back and forth
to their appointments to meet their legislators and start putting
a faith to the person, because you know, legislators need
to understand that when they're writing law, they're affecting real people.
And so that's part of the reason that I've gotten
involved with that. I've also met a lot of really
cool lawyers like your last guest, Doug, I've met him
through LinkedIn. Amazing individual. I'm really lucky with the community
that's sprung up around me and that I've not had
stones thrown at me and cast me down. It's more
of like people who have helped me stand back up
and find my voice and give me the microphone to
an extent.
Yeah, yeah, Well, when you get someone going to see
a legislator, they sit down with them, tell them the
stories they feel bad. But then right after that they
have another person coming in telling them this story they
feel bad. What they really need is a group of
people sitting down with them, almost grabbing them by the
throat and telling them, hey, look, we need some change here.
Absolutely, And that's one thing that I think I got
tagged in on for Legislative Day is like, can you
help people tell their story?
Because I have.
Been able to create mine or put mine forward in
a more punchy way. Of this happened, I wasn't happy
about it. Here's what I did, And that's a big
battle of you need to hear a group of people because,
like you said, if it's just one off or two off,
legislators are going to blow that off and think that
you're an outlier. But it's not the case at all.
We're a silent majority. It's just something that the media
doesn't cover.
Yeah, I definitely agree and I can testify to that.
So what do you see happening for you in the
next few years? What's your plans and what's your ultimate goals?
My goals I tag into a lot of projects and
a lot of people reach out to me in terms
of criminal justice from a very big heart for it.
And I'd had the most wonderful compliment last week of
somebody said, you have the heart for this and you
need that to be successful. So I plan on advocating more.
I don't know that I'll ever run for office. I
don't think I would want to do that, but I
definitely they want to help people survive the trenches and
build them up so they don't feel alone, because that
does happen a lot.
Then.
Also, I really want to see more legislation on criminal justice,
mental health reforms, and especially autism reform, because there is
I think we're at a fever pitch right now where
not just the law enforcement side needs to understand it better,
but the public in general needs to understand it better
too if we want to see meaningful change.
Yeah, I agree. I speak with a lot of people
about change. I always bring this up. You want change,
You have to understand everyone wants change. The only problem
is when you're dealing with the legislators. You're dealing with
a group of people that go back and forth on
different things, and the big problem it takes time.
That's the painful part. And especially when you're sitting in
the middle of the system and you have a loved
one that's on that other side. That's where it starts
to really be like, oh, this is going so slow.
But I find that if you have something healthy to
focus on and something to work toward, it makes that
way a little bit better because you're not just at
that point doing something for you. You're setting the table
for everyone else behind you. And that's the most beautiful
part is you're going through pain right now, but you're
making it better for somebody on the other side.
Yeah, I agree, if you can get your point across.
So what are some of the ways that you've been
creative to get your point across. I read or heard
that one person said that you couldn't do it, you
couldn't get your point across. Then you went out and
actually blog and did your things and got your point across.
Then they said, well, I guess we picked the wrong
person to go after. Yeah.
So some of the more creative things I've done is
I've always had a knack for like web design and development,
so I've created websites. I've done change dot org petitions.
A lot of people do those, but they don't always
get attention. You have to make sure that you're writing
it well, that you're designing graphics for it. I've actually
done some creative things in terms of sending people awards
like least Informed Prosecutor. I've had awards made up on Etsy,
which is I wouldn't advise that, don't do that.
They may not like that. But I've also been on
some podcasts, which is great.
We've had Let's see, what are some other things we've
done I wouldn't advise it, but Roboll calls that sometimes
gets attention. Some of the biggest things you can do
is just and this is going to be the weirdest
one to say, but I think a lot of people
get it.
Say the quiet part out loud.
Share your experience, but put it into something that's not
necessarily heavy, but something that's quick to share. Just doing
that on social media and finding your own I think
is one of the best ways. And then organizing people.
So those are some of the things that we've had
to do. But then even getting on as strange as
it sounds like the next door app, we've been able
to find people who were also impacted by judges and
prosecutors by some law enforcement misconduct, just by asking questions
and saying, hey, has anybody seen anything weird or had
anything weird happen with this? And there are a lot
of people they're just dying to tell their story because
nobody's listening. Or you have a group who's, oh, no,
that couldn't possibly happen here. You have this person who's
been downtrodden. If you approach them, suddenly they're not alone anymore,
and they're just ready to talk. A big part of it, honestly,
was just getting really creative and good on social media
and unique blogging and just coming at it from a
digital angle, because there's only so far the letter writing
campaigns will get you. And social media was where I
think I had the most impact, just because it's so
wide open.
It's that digital sphere. Yeah.
I mean there's definitely some things I've said it a
little shorter and maybe a little meaner than I should have,
and that got some attention. But you definitely will draw
more flies with honey than vinegar. I will say a
lesson learned.
Yeah, But sometimes you just have to put it out
there what needs to be said.
That is true.
You can tiptoe around it. You can have diplomacy. I mean,
you can be as diplomatic as you want to be.
But it's like the old saying, go don't take my
niceness full weakness. Yes, sometimes you just have to step
up to the plate say I've been trying to be
as nice as I can and you don't accept it,
so you just blast them.
Yeah, And honestly, what I had to do most recently
with this other case is just keep blasting of BAM.
Here's this case where something went wrong. Bam, here's this
case where something went wrong, and you have to keep.
Those posts out.
Yeah, absolutely, otherwise they're going to feel like they can
get complacent and just get away with it. And so
I've been really lucky that because I've been staying on
top of things, I've actually been able to help quite
a few people not just get out of potentially bad
situations with plea bargains in this particular county that I
was dealing with, but also they've had some better outcomes
in their cases because one of the most creative things
I did was I said, give me your case file.
I ran through the entire thing. I peeled it apart,
back to back. I basically because I have criminal justice training.
I ran through it as I was an investigator. And
here's all the reasons why I wouldn't have put this
case forward, and how that investigator did a terrible job.
That sounds like it was really a positive thing to
do for you.
That actually became one of the best and most popular
posts on my blog. Somebody claiming there was an altercation
in this truck cab with no cup holders, but they
had just gone to get food. Somebody's going to have
food all over them and they're out in public. Nobody
saw these people covered with food. I highly doubt it.
So it's things that you step through that I'm lucky
that I've got the professional training, but some of it
is just common sense too. And I will say having
that opportunity to be able to voice things for people
and break it down in a way that makes things,
I guess less difficult to understand and more manageable, that
makes it a lot easier too. Of just empowering people
so that they're like, I'm not going to fall for that.
I know what happens.
It's amazing. One of the things you just said. I
have five judges coming on my podcast over the next
couple of months. I asked one of them a question.
He took about a minute to think it over, and
then his answer that he came back with common sense.
Yeah, which isn't very common The craziest part to me,
And that's encouraging to me to hear a judge like, oh,
thank goodness, we're going to be okay. There's actually a
judge out there who's like common sense, you know, like
it shouldn't be common sense for a judge to not
understand mental health. It shouldn't be common sense for a
judge to not consider that somebody you know has autism.
But yet here we are of we still unfortunately have
judges who are like, no, this person is just a
terrible person and they're evil, and that's not true.
Yeah, the good thing is that not all that way.
My very first episode for this month was with a
judge out of Las Vegas. She has a court system
that is the only one in the country, and I
just have a hard time believing that there's no other
court systems in the country that's like this. What she
tries to do is divert all the young kids out
of the court system, so if they follow the rules,
they have a good chance of having a future with
their lives. She does have an autistic child, but it
didn't aren't because of that. It started because she had
an opening and they had an autistic person that needed
some calmness, so they put that kid in her court.
Then another person saw that and wound up getting another
autistic child in her court, and then it just evolved
from there into a system that is unlike any other
court system in the country. So if she can do it,
why aren't others. Unfortunately, this just leaves us a huge
kill to climb for those that are autistic.
There is.
And the sad part is that judges and prosecutors they
have the most power and they don't even they either
don't realize it or they don't want to realize it
because there, unfortunately is a lot of money and punishment.
But if you have diversion programs for adults, which there
are places. I'm lucky that the county I live in
has phenomenal diversion programs. They do have mental health core,
they have treatment or substance abuse treatment courts. They have
access to those things for people to divert them away.
Because diversion ends up saving the taxpayer money.
It saves the taxpayers huge money.
Millions, and not just that, but it also creates jobs
in those other sectors and it creates just a more
holistic and equitable environment overall. So you're going to do
that for adults, why not do that for juveniles? Now,
I will say to tack onto that, which is really
fascinating of how far behind not just the country, but
Michigan is when it comes to juvenile court. We just
recently this year made it so juvenile defendants have access
to court appointed attorneys that are paid for that. It's
so backward of like, you have these kids that you're
basically saddling debt and it was up until a couple
months ago, completely okay to do it. It's bonkers, like
the common sense does not exist in the system, or
just empathy sometimes.
Yeah, and unfortunately, the more issues a person has, the
worse that it gets.
Absolutely one thing that they say, especially for people who
are neurodivergent or if you're like me and you have ADHD,
the joke is that ADHD brings friends to the party.
Usually there's coexisting things that go along with it. Like
for me, I struggle with math, I have dyscalculia, but
I also have anxiety, so I have these things that
I have to deal with in addition to my ADHD.
People on the autism spectrum, they have the same thing
happen where you can have autism and ADHD together and anxiety.
Yeah, that's so true.
You can have all of.
Those things, and we need to understand that's that's not
an outlier, it's the norm of the human experience. If
there's a unique mix of things going on at any
given time.
So with all the pressure you have the ADHD anxiety,
my question is how do you cope?
How do I cope? I? For me, sometimes action is
the best way to keep me busy. And if I
feel like I've got control over a situation, and if
I'm doing I feel better. If I'm helping people, I
usually feel better even if I'm not doing anything to
improve my situation. And for all other things, there's hot
baths and crochet that'll take care of that. But the
big things for me is like how can I serve
others and help others just to make sure that somebody
is being taken care of even if things aren't necessarily
going right in my world?
Okay? In closing, what do you think is the important
thing that listeners should hear and understand about what you're
trying to do.
I think the most important thing that anybody can do
is learn about the criminal justice system now. Because the
odds that you are a loved one will I end
up getting entangled or involved at some point in time
in your wife are pretty high, So it's better to
educate yourself now and protect yourself and know your rights
not just constitutionally but legally within your own state because
every state is different, but also advocate because you never know.
You could be one bad day away.
One mental health emergency away from being in that hot
seat and potentially going to prison. And the way that
we treat people now is going to make a big
deal a difference for you if you.
End up in that seat.
You have to both be informed, but most importantly, you
have to care. And I will leave that the whole
thing if I have to give you, guys anything of
a quote from the very wise Doctor Seuss from The
Low Acts is if people like you don't care, how
does it go? If people don't care like you will,
or people like you don't care like a whole lot,
then things won't get better. I butchered that quote, but
that is one of my favorite quotes from the Lorax
and I think it was a defining quote that I
still take with me and I hope other people take
it with them too.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, it's been good, good conversation, great information.
I really appreciate you taking the time to come on.
No, I had a blast.
And also congratulations on being in the top three today,
Like what an accomplishment.
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate it. Well, it's been great. Thanks again,
thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule
to listen to our show today. We hope that you
enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.
If you know anyone that would like to tell us
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