The Joy of Making with Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck

Mia Hobbs:
00:00:03
Hello, and welcome back to series two of the Why I
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:06
Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:10
psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:13
for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:16
knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:20
health. For the first episode of series two, I'm delighted to be
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:23
joined by Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck, the founders and
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:26
creative directors of Pom Pom magazine. As you'll probably be
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:30
able to tell, I'm a big fan of Pom Pom. You can find links to
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:34
all of the yarns and the patterns we discuss, and to Pom
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:37
Pom magazine, in the show notes.
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:45
Hi, Meghan and Lydia, welcome to the podcast.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:00:48
Hello, thank you for having us.
Lydia Gluck:
00:00:50
Hi!
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:51
Hi, you're welcome. I wonder if it's helpful just for
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:54
audio purposes for you each to just introduce yourself so
Mia Hobbs:
00:00:57
people know from your accents!
Lydia Gluck:
00:01:00
Hi, yes, my name is Lydia, and you can tell that I
Lydia Gluck:
00:01:03
am British. And that's probably the main way that you're going
Lydia Gluck:
00:01:05
to be able to tell the difference between Meghan and I!
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:10
Yep. And I'm Meghan, and I'm here in Austin,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:13
Texas, with my American accent.
Mia Hobbs:
00:01:16
So it's early in the morning for you, Meghan.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:19
Yeah, it's eight o'clock in the morning.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:20
But I have already had plenty to do today. So I'm happy to to be
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:26
here at eight o'clock in the morning.
Mia Hobbs:
00:01:28
Super. Well, thank you so much for joining me on
Mia Hobbs:
00:01:31
the podcast. I always start with asking where your story with
Mia Hobbs:
00:01:35
knitting began personally. Meghan, do you want to start?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:40
Sure. I learned to knit from my
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:43
boyfriend's mother when I was in high school, so when I was 16.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:49
And I wanted to learn and she was eager to teach me and I just
Meghan Fernandes:
00:01:55
spent a couple of days on her sofa with her helping me when I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:01
needed it. And yeah, she made me knit a whole sweater as my first
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:07
project! So it was a good introduction.
Mia Hobbs:
00:02:11
Wow! Do you still have it?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:13
I have parts of it. As you can imagine, as
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:17
the first project, it did not turn out wonderfully, so I have
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:21
parts of it repurposed into different things. So I still
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:25
have the yarn.
Mia Hobbs:
00:02:28
It's found a new life elsewhere.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:29
Yes. [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:02:32
Did you carry on knitting straight away?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:34
Yeah I did, I think! Well, I was 16 then. And
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:39
then a couple years later, I went to university and I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:45
definitely was knitting there. So yeah, I've never really
Meghan Fernandes:
00:02:48
stopped since then.
Mia Hobbs:
00:02:51
Great. And how about you, Lydia?
Lydia Gluck:
00:02:53
Well, I'm pretty sure that my mum did teach me to
Lydia Gluck:
00:02:56
knit when I was little, maybe like seven or eight, something
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:00
like that. But it didn't really stick then. So I properly
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:05
started knitting when I was at university. So I was like, I
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:08
think, 19 or 20. And it happened because one of my housemates at
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:13
the time had taken up knitting and she was making a garter
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:16
stitch scarf, as people do often when they start... not Meghan of
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:19
course, Meghan made a jumper! [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:03:20
A high achiever! [Laughs]
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:24
But yeah, so this friend of mine, Jess, was
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:27
knitting. And I was like, "Oh, you know, I'll have a go on
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:30
that!". And not long after then I went home for, I think, maybe
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:34
an Easter or summer holiday back to Wales, where I grew up. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:38
it was raining, as it often does in Wales, and so I spent quite a
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:41
lot of time inside teaching myself to knit. And in
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:44
retrospect, it's really weird that I didn't ask my mum or my
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:47
granny to just show me how but it didn't really occur to me. So
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:50
I just taught myself from a book, and I think haven't really
Lydia Gluck:
00:03:56
stopped for very long since then. I was pretty into it
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:01
straightaway.
Mia Hobbs:
00:04:03
And I know Lydia, from listening to the Pomcast,
Mia Hobbs:
00:04:07
that you're generally a creative person, so I'm assuming you've
Mia Hobbs:
00:04:09
tried lots of different creative hobbies. What do you think made
Mia Hobbs:
00:04:14
knitting stick? I don't know if it is the main one for you...?
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:18
I mean, actually, I learned to crochet. So when I
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:20
was teaching myself to knit, the book that I bought myself had
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:24
both crochet and knitting. And crochet I found a lot easier to
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:28
start with. So I started off with crochet but learned to knit
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:32
not long afterwards. Yeah, especially when I was at
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:38
university, and maybe didn't have loads of space and loads of
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:41
access to... you know, because I wasn't at art school, I didn't
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:43
have access to facilities there. Knitting is small, it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:49
portable, it's something that you can pick up and put down
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:54
quite easily without having to make a lot of space for it. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:56
I think especially when I was living in shared houses, perhaps
Lydia Gluck:
00:04:59
that's why it stuck. But also I just think I found it really
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:03
addictive. And it's kind of hard to say why, isn't it? Why some
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:06
things just kind of click, but I think there was just something
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:09
about it. I've always loved clothes and had a lot of fun
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:13
with colours and clothes. So I think the fact that I was able
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:16
to make myself little things to wear or things for my friends
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:21
was a lot of fun. And I think there's just something about the
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:24
repetitive nature of it that obviously I found quite
Lydia Gluck:
00:05:28
appealing.
Mia Hobbs:
00:05:29
How about you, Meghan? Why do you think it
Mia Hobbs:
00:05:31
stuck?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:34
Well, I agree, you know, there's something
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:36
about knitting and crochet. The portability of it, and being
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:42
able to multitask, I think is really appealing. I think,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:49
because I knit so much and it was so addictive early on, that
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:53
I quickly learned how to read and knit at the same time, or
Meghan Fernandes:
00:05:58
watch TV or listen to a podcast or sit on the bus. You can
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:02
always do something else while you're doing it, and I think
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:07
that's really appealing. And it makes you feel productive and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:12
like you've accomplished something, even when you're
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:17
standing in line at the post office or something like that.
Mia Hobbs:
00:06:20
Do you think you're a natural multitasker?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:22
I must be! [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:06:25
For myself, I think my brain likes to kind of go
Mia Hobbs:
00:06:28
freelancing if I'm just sitting watching a zoom training or
Mia Hobbs:
00:06:32
something. I feel like it really helps me, to be able to knit
Mia Hobbs:
00:06:35
then.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:36
Yeah, yesterday at Pom Pom our team
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:40
had a big meeting that could have been quite boring [laughs].
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:43
It was sort of about statistics from all of our different areas
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:49
of expertise, from sales to social media, you know, all the
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:53
different things, and I think Lydia was darning, I was
Meghan Fernandes:
00:06:58
crocheting, during that meeting. And yeah, I think it's really
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:03
useful to allow your brain to kind of relax and let the
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:07
It must be so nice to be not the only person doing it!
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:07
information...
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:10
I've never experienced being on a training when I wasn't the
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:15
only person knitting. And I guess the other thing is there
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:19
to be a basic assumption that you can still be paying
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:23
attention when you're doing that.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:24
Yes. It's nice, because I feel like I did
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:28
do knitting in university, during lectures or whatever, and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:33
be the only one. People who don't understand are like, "Are
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:38
they really paying attention?", you know? But yeah, it's pretty
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:44
standard at Pom Pom.
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:48
It'd be lovely to hear about how your knitting
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:50
stories then collided and created Pom Pom magazine.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:07:56
Yeah, I mean, it was 10 years ago now, right?
Mia Hobbs:
00:07:59
Happy birthday!
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:01
Thanks! I think we started talking about
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:03
it in January 10 years ago. So like, down to the month,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:06
probably. We worked together at the knitting shop Loop in
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:12
London.
Mia Hobbs:
00:08:13
Was that at Cross Street? In the first location?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:16
Yeah, in the little one!
Mia Hobbs:
00:08:17
Because I actually used to come in there. I lived
Mia Hobbs:
00:08:19
around the corner at the time.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:21
Well, you probably saw one of us. [Laughs]
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:26
And then Lydia went to Mexico for a while, and lived there.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:31
And then when you came back, I was pretty much like, "Let's do
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:34
something. What are we gonna do?" But we had both recently
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:41
finished MAs, and Lydia's was in linguistics and mine was in
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:45
English literature, and we were, I guess, both kind of at loose
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:49
ends. I don't know if that's true for you. But yeah, I didn't
Meghan Fernandes:
00:08:54
really know what I was doing with my life. We kind of decided
Meghan Fernandes:
00:09:00
that we wanted to create a project. And working in the shop
Meghan Fernandes:
00:09:06
was lovely and so inspiring, and we saw a lot of magazines coming
Meghan Fernandes:
00:09:12
through and saw there wasn't really something that really
Meghan Fernandes:
00:09:16
spoke to us. So we decided to do it kind of as an experiment, I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:09:20
feel like! And then it went really well.
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:23
Yeah, I feel like we went into it, like you said,
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:29
like an experiment or a creative project. We didn't launch a big
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:33
branded business. We didn't really have a business plan.
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:37
[Laughs] And I feel like we've said quite a lot since that,
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:42
perhaps, it's good that we didn't think it through too
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:46
much, because we might have been overwhelmed by it. In fact, I'm
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:50
pretty sure we would have been overwhelmed by the amount of
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:53
work it was going to be, and about the amount of things that
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:55
we didn't know about publishing. I mean, Meghan had a bit of a
Lydia Gluck:
00:09:59
background in publishing, and we had people we could talk to, and
Lydia Gluck:
00:10:02
we did the research we needed to do. And like Meghan said, we
Lydia Gluck:
00:10:05
were in the shop, kind of seeing what was going on in the
Lydia Gluck:
00:10:08
knitting world. Well, in that corner of the knitting world.
Lydia Gluck:
00:10:12
But yeah, it's amazing that it's been 10 years.
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:19
Mmm. Well, I'm really glad you did. I think sometimes
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:22
that happens with knitting. If I look back on it,  I think, "What
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:26
was I doing starting that really ambitious project or thinking I
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:29
could knit this thing without a pattern that I would never do
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:32
now that I know more about how these things work!" But because
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:36
I was naive and didn't know any better I just went for it. And
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:38
actually, sometimes, I mean, certainly in your case with Pom
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:41
Pom magazine, it's worked out I think, guys! [Laughs] I'd love
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:48
to hear more about... I know, Meghan, when we spoke about
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:50
setting up the interview, you said that you guys often talk
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:52
about the role of knitting on mental wellbeing and that that's
Mia Hobbs:
00:10:58
something you guys feel strongly about. I'd love to hear a bit
Mia Hobbs:
00:11:01
more about how you think knitting benefits your mental
Mia Hobbs:
00:11:05
health. Lydia, do you want to start?
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:07
Sure, yeah. It's definitely something that both
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:13
Meghan and I have spoken about, and we as a team. And then it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:16
also something that comes up a lot in conversations about
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:19
knitting with people I know who don't knit. I think there's
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:22
probably been a bit more awareness recently about the
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:27
benefits of doing things like knitting. But for myself,
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:30
personally, I think what we spoke about already, you know,
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:35
that if you're somebody who maybe finds it hard to sit still
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:38
and concentrate on something, it can be a really nice way to kind
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:42
of quiet that part of your brain that's quite sort of fidgety.
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:46
Like, I'm a real fidgeter by nature. If I'm not knitting, I'm
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:49
probably fiddling with my hair relentlessly or something. I
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:52
can't seem to keep my hands still. So I think that's good,
Lydia Gluck:
00:11:58
because it allows me to concentrate better, and then to
Lydia Gluck:
00:12:01
feel better subsequently about myself. Because I think it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:12:06
easy to be hard on yourself, if you're struggling to concentrate
Lydia Gluck:
00:12:09
on something, and if you can find a way to manage that,
Lydia Gluck:
00:12:12
whichever way works for you (and for me, for example, knitting or
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:13
For you, does it matter what it is you knit? Is
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:15
crochet works) then that's a positive. And I just feel like
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:20
it's that nice feeling of being able to see your time. So you
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:24
can kind of see maybe you didn't get up to much over the last
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:28
couple of weeks, for whatever reason, maybe you just didn't
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:31
want to, or nothing really came up that you wanted to make plans
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:35
for. It's nice to be able to look back and be like, "Oh,
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:39
yeah, maybe I started a pair of socks, or maybe I even finished
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:43
them. Or maybe I just decided on some colours for something that
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:46
I want to make." And it kind of gives shape to time in that way,
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:49
which I think can be quite reassuring.
Mia Hobbs:
00:12:58
all knitting equal?
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:02
I think the way that I knit has changed over the
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:05
years, and I think it used to be that I would quite often want to
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:08
make really challenging things. And nowadays, at least at the
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:13
moment - you know, that could change again - but at the
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:15
moment, I feel like I mainly am drawn to knitting things that I
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:20
find relatively straightforward. So for example, I could listen
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:23
to something at the same time, or be doing something else at
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:27
the same time. So in that way, it kind of matters like gauging
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:30
what kind of project I want to make, what kind of energy do I
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:35
have at the moment. And I guess there are certain things that I
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:39
just really like. I just love making socks, big fan of making
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:43
socks. I'm always constantly making socks. I really like
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:48
making things I can wear, I suppose, for want of a better
Lydia Gluck:
00:13:54
way of putting it.
Mia Hobbs:
00:13:54
And will you think more about the end product or
Mia Hobbs:
00:13:56
more about the process? For me, I think more about the process.
Mia Hobbs:
00:14:02
The more I knit, I'll think "I need to do some colourwork" or
Mia Hobbs:
00:14:04
"I need to do some cables". And then I'll find something that
Mia Hobbs:
00:14:07
fits that, that I always want, but...
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:10
Yeah, I think it's a balance. I think that for me,
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:13
what I want from my knitting at the moment is something a bit
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:20
steadier and less challenging. That will kind of inform what I
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:23
decide to make. Because it might be that I'm drawn to a certain
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:27
pattern, but I just think, "You know what, maybe now isn't the
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:30
right time and I'll come back to that when I'm feeling a bit more
Lydia Gluck:
00:14:33
ambitious".
Mia Hobbs:
00:14:36
How about you, Meghan?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:39
Well, I feel like there's so many parts of
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:41
it. Like Lydia was saying about that feeling of being at a loose
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:47
end or if you're not really getting up to much, which I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:49
think a lot of us can relate to in the last couple years. But I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:53
remember before we started Pom Pom and before I kind of... I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:58
don't want to say figured out what I was doing with my life
Meghan Fernandes:
00:14:59
because I don't know that I've still done that [laughs]. But
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:03
when I didn't have a job and I was really kind of aimless,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:11
knitting and (on Ravelry) cataloguing my projects, having
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:17
that sense of accomplishment every day was really good for
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:21
me. And the sense of community that came from that, even though
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:26
a lot of it was online at the time, was really helpful. I will
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:32
say, there have been different times in my life where
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:35
something's going on with a friend or even with me, or big
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:41
life changes, if someone has been ill, or even died, or
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:48
having a baby, whatever it is, sometimes knitting, either for
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:53
them or not even for them, but just sort of processing that
Meghan Fernandes:
00:15:57
information while you're making something is really helpful. And
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:04
it's almost like a form of release or a way of just working
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:10
through that information but physically with your hands, and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:15
creating something out of that. And even if it's something that
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:18
I've just kept for myself, or whatever, it's still really
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:22
helpful. But yeah, I think one of the main benefits of knitting
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:31
to my mental health is colour, and being able to play with
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:35
colour, and you can be so specific about what colours you
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:40
are using and what you're going to be looking at for hours and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:44
hours and hours. I feel like colour really has that huge
Meghan Fernandes:
00:16:48
impact on my personal mental health inside.
Mia Hobbs:
00:16:53
Sorry about that. So you were saying that colour is a
Mia Hobbs:
00:16:56
big part of why knitting feels therapeutic, so you get to kind
Mia Hobbs:
00:16:59
of combine different colours. And I think that's a really good
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:02
point that you actually have a long relationship (or I do!)
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:06
with the knitting project when it's in your hands, because I'm
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:09
not necessarily that fast. But I might decide I really want a
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:14
yellow jumper or something, and that cheers me up while I'm
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:17
working on it and then afterwards, too. How about you,
Mia Hobbs:
00:17:20
Lydia?
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:22
Oh, yeah, that's pretty much my favourite thing
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:27
ever anyway, and so to be able to work with colour in knitting
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:32
is just one of the great joys. And actually, there's exactly
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:36
what Meghan said, there's an aspect of processing things, and
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:42
it's kind of a meditative thing in a lot of ways. But there's
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:44
also an aspect of distraction, and I think that that's okay; I
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:48
think a certain amount of distraction... not a
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:51
pathological amount where you're ignoring things, but just if
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:54
there's a lot going on and things are tough for whatever
Lydia Gluck:
00:17:58
reason, then sometimes it's just really nice to take a moment if
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:02
you can, and just be like, "I really like the way those two
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:04
colours look together" and just allow yourself to get involved
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:08
in something that you do have control over, to a certain
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:12
extent. Obviously we've all had projects go wrong and continue
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:14
to do so, but even when they go wrong, you can unravel them and
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:19
have another go, and that in itself I find really comforting.
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:23
And so I think sometimes it's quite nice to just be like, "I'm
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:26
just gonna think about this for a little bit and pause the other
Lydia Gluck:
00:18:30
things."
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:31
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:32
actually, it's not something that's come up, I don't think,
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:34
in the podcast so far, but I think certainly in Coronavirus
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:40
times, there have been times where I felt like I needed
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:43
something that was within my control. And that was to choose
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:47
some sparkly navy blue yarn for socks with little flashes of
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:50
rainbows that I could be in control of when everything else
Mia Hobbs:
00:18:55
was big and scary and not in my control at all.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:18:57
I think that's a really good point about the
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:02
unravelling because I was talking to some quilters
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:05
recently, and I was like, "Oh, sewing freaks me out." Because
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:09
once you cut into that fabric, you can't go back. So it's
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:12
something particular about knitting and crochet where there
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:15
is that reassurance that you can just unravel it and start over
Meghan Fernandes:
00:19:17
again. That's really nice.
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:19
Yeah, absolutely. I've been running therapeutic
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:21
knitting groups and that's something we've been practising:
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:24
the idea of making safe mistakes. In knitting, unless
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:28
you get the scissors out, you really have got always what you
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:32
started with, even if it goes terribly wrong. And I felt the
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:37
same about sewing, actually. I did start dressmaking and the
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:40
idea of cutting into the fabric... there's no going back
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:43
from that, is there? [Laughs] And also with your point about
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:46
portability, I think after having children that certainly
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:51
made knitting more accessible for me, because I could knit in
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:55
five minutes when I wasn't ever sure how long a nap was going to
Mia Hobbs:
00:19:58
last; whereas to get a sewing machine out or... I guess with
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:02
other hobbies like art or things, there might be more
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:06
things you can't take around with you, like you can with
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:09
knitting.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:11
Yeah, I agree. [Laughs] I mean, I was able to
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:16
knit while I was feeding a baby, early on, which is huge.
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:23
Good skills, good commitment! [Laughs] And what
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:27
kind of things are you drawn to, Meghan, at the moment in terms
Mia Hobbs:
00:20:32
of what knitting floats your boat right now?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:34
I agree with Lydia that I like to knit things
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:37
that I can wear. I do make things for my kids, but they
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:42
don't appreciate them as much as I do. [Laughs] I'm not
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:50
monogamous with the types of things that I knit. But I've
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:55
been doing a lot more crochet recently. I do like to make
Meghan Fernandes:
00:20:58
garments even though in Texas I don't need them that often! But
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:04
living here has meant that I'm experimenting with other plant
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:09
fibres and figuring out what I can wear in Texas when it's hot.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:17
But yeah, everything! But I have been on a little bit of a
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:22
sweater kick since August.
Mia Hobbs:
00:21:26
Sure. Do you mind what type? I can see you're
Mia Hobbs:
00:21:28
wearing colourwork at the moment. In terms of technique,
Mia Hobbs:
00:21:33
does it matter to you?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:35
No, it doesn't matter. [Laughs] But I think I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:40
am into projects with more than one colour, because it's fun.
Mia Hobbs:
00:21:45
So you like combining those colours as well?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:47
Yeah. And I've gotten to a point now where I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:51
shouldn't really buy yarn. So not having a sweater quantity of
Meghan Fernandes:
00:21:57
one colour means that I have to figure out how to mix them
Meghan Fernandes:
00:22:01
together.
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:02
Okay. Yeah, just an added challenge! And in terms of
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:09
thinking about the benefits to your mental health, how much is
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:11
that also true of the things that you've made if you're
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:14
making garments and then wearing them afterwards? Because I
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:17
suppose for me, I feel like I still get a boost to my mood on
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:22
days when I can wear something I've made. And maybe people also
Mia Hobbs:
00:22:25
notice and ask about it. I don't know about you guys...?
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:30
Yeah, like we've been saying colour is, for us at
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:35
least, one of the great joys of knitting and making things. I
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:41
tend to sort of stay in love with colours, you know, I might
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:44
find new colours that I love, but it's pretty rare for me to
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:47
change my mind about and no longer like one. So if I've
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:51
chosen a colour for a jumper, or whatever it is, pair of socks or
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:54
a hat, that every time I wear it, I'm just like, "I love this
Lydia Gluck:
00:22:57
colour!" And it's also just a nice feeling to have made
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:00
something that you wanted, and you got to make it and maybe you
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:04
have a nice connection to the yarn in some way or to the
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:06
pattern in some way. Or maybe you have memories of when you
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:09
were making it and who was around or who you were talking
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:12
to, and it kind of brings all of that back. And also, selfishly,
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:16
I like it when people are like, "Oh my god, I love your jumper!
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:18
Did you make it?" Then you're like, "Yeah!" I always say that
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:21
winter, as it starts to get cold, at least for the more
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:26
traditional British knitting, making jumpers and so on, less
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:30
plant fibres, it's just a great season. It's a great season for
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:34
compliments! [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:23:35
Yeah! I don't think there's anything wrong with
Mia Hobbs:
00:23:39
that. I think that's great to feel like you get a little boost
Mia Hobbs:
00:23:42
from somebody saying, "Oh, you're so clever to have made
Mia Hobbs:
00:23:45
that!" Because it's not even just that you look nice, it's
Mia Hobbs:
00:23:48
also an even better compliment, really!
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:51
Yeah, it takes the focus away from how you look. It
Lydia Gluck:
00:23:59
feels like a compliment that I can more easily take on board.
Lydia Gluck:
00:24:05
If someone knows I'm a knitter, and they're like, "Oh, did you
Lydia Gluck:
00:24:07
make that jumper?" and I did, then I'm just like, "Mmm yes, I
Lydia Gluck:
00:24:10
feel good about this."
Mia Hobbs:
00:24:13
How about you, Meghan, with your relationship
Mia Hobbs:
00:24:15
with the finished articles?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:17
Yeah, as soon as it did get cold enough here
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:21
to wear sweaters, somebody in the line to pick up my kids was
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:28
like, "[Gasp] Your sweater!" and I was like, " It's my time! This
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:32
is our season!" [Laughs]  But, yeah, it feels great. And I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:40
think one of the great things about knitting is that you can
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:43
make exactly what you want. I've never seen another sweater that
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:48
looks like mine, you know, in these colours and this design,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:52
and it's exactly what I intended, and I think that's
Meghan Fernandes:
00:24:56
really satisfying. Especially if you are particular about what
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:00
you wear, then being able to make that vision come true is
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:08
really satisfying.
Mia Hobbs:
00:25:12
That's brilliant. Thank you. And I'd love to ask
Mia Hobbs:
00:25:15
each of you about a significant knitting project. You can
Mia Hobbs:
00:25:19
interpret that however you like. It could be something you've
Mia Hobbs:
00:25:22
made, it could be one of the Pom Pom designs or... I know you've
Mia Hobbs:
00:25:25
both designed, haven't you, for Pom Pom?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:28
I think I have an answer. Lydia, do you
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:32
remember the mittens with the colour outline? We kind of
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:42
figured those out together. And that was a really satisfying
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:46
process. They look really simple, but in order to do them,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:51
we had to do an Estonian technique. So it's a plain
Meghan Fernandes:
00:25:56
coloured mitten, but it has like an outline all around the edge.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:00
And so they look very simple, but I was like, "I want mittens
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:04
that look like this, but I can't figure out how to make it
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:06
happen". But Lydia had read this Estonian knitting technique
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:12
book, and was like, "I think it might work like this". So we
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:15
figured it out together, and it was a really satisfying, fun
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:21
thing to figure out. And I think that for designing, figuring out
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:28
how to do something that's not always immediately obvious is
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:35
really fun.
Mia Hobbs:
00:26:36
So you like the kind of challenge element of it?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:26:39
Yeah.
Mia Hobbs:
00:26:41
How about you, Lydia? Can you think of a significant
Mia Hobbs:
00:26:43
project?
Lydia Gluck:
00:26:44
Yeah, I think so. I have two things come to mind.
Lydia Gluck:
00:26:48
One of them is my Quadrillion jumper which is a jumper or
Lydia Gluck:
00:26:54
sweater that Meghan designed for issue six of Pom Pom. So that's
Lydia Gluck:
00:26:59
now eight and a half years ago or something, quite a long time
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:02
ago. And I made myself a version of it in the same yarn as the
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:11
original, in the Uncommon Thread BFL, but mine's in... I think
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:15
it's called Meadow Grass, and it's a kind of limy greeny
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:19
colour. I really loved making that jumper, because it's quite
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:24
a good combination of... there's lots and lots of different
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:29
cables on the front of the jumper, so you're paying
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:34
attention while you're doing that part, but then, for the
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:38
rest, it's moss stitch and a bit more straightforward. So it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:41
got this great combination of challenging and more mindless
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:45
knitting. But I think it was just, at the time, something I
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:49
was really proud of because it was exactly what I wanted. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:51
it was just really lovely that Meghan had designed it and then
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:54
I got to wear it. And it was kind of part of Pom Pom. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:27:57
then the other thing I was going to say is maybe Woodwardia, when
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:01
I made and designed that, because that was something I'd
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:05
had in the back of my mind for quite a long time. It's a kind
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:08
of raglan jumper with a sort of purl stitch design on the
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:12
raglan. And then that led to me working on the raglan book that
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:16
we published a couple years ago. Wait, was it a couple of years
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:19
ago now? I think it was in 2020... maybe it's like a year
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:23
and a half ago. But that book was something that I really
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:29
loved creating. And then that jumper was the kind of start of
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:32
it.
Mia Hobbs:
00:28:34
Okay, great. So it was a jumper AND a kind of, I
Mia Hobbs:
00:28:37
don't know, foot into the book.
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:39
Yeah, exactly. And it's something that I still wear
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:42
quite a lot, as is Quadrillion. So they're both things that have
Lydia Gluck:
00:28:45
remained kind of staples in my wardrobe.
Mia Hobbs:
00:28:49
I wonder if I could take the opportunity, just in
Mia Hobbs:
00:28:52
terms of my fan-ness of Pom Pom magazine, just to say about how
Mia Hobbs:
00:28:57
Pom Pom was kind of pivotal in my knitting journey as well. I
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:02
had been a knitter... So I, like you Lydia, had learned to knit
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:08
when I was seven and had some Donald Duck needles and made a
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:11
very tight and very holey blanket for a mouse and then had
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:14
stopped. And then my mum taught me when I was doing my doctorate
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:19
because she said I needed to do something that was not related
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:21
to psychology. And then was kind of knitting but that was pre-...
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:26
I mean, it wasn't pre- the actual internet, but it was
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:28
pre-YouTube or anything like that. So I'd learned from a
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:31
book, and then years later (it was about 2016, probably) I
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:36
taught a whole group of people at work to knit because we were
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:41
making blankets for somebody who'd had babies. And so then I
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:46
taught some slightly younger people to knit, and the first
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:49
thing they did was to look on the internet and go on
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:51
Instagram. And I had not thought there was anything on Instagram
Mia Hobbs:
00:29:54
for me, I thought it was about celebrities and diets! And then
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:01
she was like, "Oh look, there's all this cool stuff!". And that
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:03
was how I discovered Pom Pom magazine, which really started
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:07
me on a different trajectory of knitting garments. I made a
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:11
Vellamo sweater and various other projects. And I think it
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:15
made a big difference, learning about this Instagram community
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:20
and learning that there were more patterns out there and
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:23
things that I actually could see myself wearing, that I had no
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:27
idea that existed because I learned to knit before any of
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:31
that was there, I suppose.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:30:34
That's so lovely! Thank you.
Lydia Gluck:
00:30:38
Yeah, it's always so lovely to hear.
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:40
I guess you guys hear a lot of stories about knitting.
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:44
Do other people tell you about knitting and how it's impacted
Mia Hobbs:
00:30:49
people's mental health? Is that something you hear about often?
Lydia Gluck:
00:30:53
That is a good question. And I'm finding it
Lydia Gluck:
00:30:56
weirdly difficult to answer! I think at the moment, my work
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:02
life is obviously very knitting-related. But actually,
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:09
outside of my work life, I don't talk to that many knitters. So
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:16
not so much. But I often have exchanges where people want my
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:24
stories about knitting, I suppose. Which seems like a
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:27
shame. I feel like I'm lacking in other people's knitting
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:31
stories.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:32
We get sent proposals for people's personal
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:38
stories about how knitting has helped their mental health.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:43
Obviously, we can't publish them all but I feel like we do get a
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:46
fair few people reaching out to us with their stories about how
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:52
it's been healing after an injury or an illness or a major
Meghan Fernandes:
00:31:58
life change, or...
Lydia Gluck:
00:31:59
Yes, you're so right.  I think the word
Lydia Gluck:
00:32:02
"story"... for some reason, I was imagining people talking in
Lydia Gluck:
00:32:05
real life.
Mia Hobbs:
00:32:06
Do people do that anymore? [Laughs]
Lydia Gluck:
00:32:10
"No" was my answer! [Laughs]
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:16
We published a story about a friend of ours
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:20
whose recovery from alcoholism was really helped by his
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:29
learning to knit.
Mia Hobbs:
00:32:29
Yes, I read that one.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:31
I can't remember what issue that is now,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:32
but it's a great story. One of my oldest friends recently broke
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:44
her back, and has been recovering from that and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:49
multiple surgeries. She's actually a surgeon herself, and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:32:53
she's finding it very hard to lie around [laughs] doing
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:00
nothing, basically. I sent her a copy of our beginners book, and
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:06
some yarn and needles. She's been staying at her mom's while
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:10
she's been recovering, and she's like, "As soon as I get home,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:12
I'm turning my guestroom into a craft room". She's a total
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:15
convert now. She texts me every day showing her progress. And
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:20
you know, it's gotten a lot better as she's been going on,
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:23
and I think it has given her a sense of purpose and direction
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:32
in a time when she's been kind of struggling.
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:35
That's brilliant! And it must be a really hard time to
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:38
think, "Oh, I can't do this, I can't do that, I can't do
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:41
this... but this I can do!" And I guess being a surgeon, she's a
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:44
high achiever. She's going to go with it.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:47
I know. [Laughs] Yeah, she is a high
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:50
achiever so she was a little hard on herself at first, but I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:33:54
think it's been good for her.
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:57
I think it is really powerful that, like you said,
Mia Hobbs:
00:33:59
you can see and touch your progress. It makes it easier to
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:05
notice, doesn't it? And I actually just was writing a blog
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:08
for somebody else about the therapeutic benefits of craft,
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:11
and one of my three top tips was to show and tell. I think when
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:16
we're adults, we're not that good at showing and telling. We
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:19
get out of that habit. Kids do it all the time; they draw a
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:21
picture and they immediately want to show you. But I think
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:24
having someone you can text, even if it's two rows of
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:26
knitting, text a picture and they'll say, "Well done!" That
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:29
does make a difference, doesn't it?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:34:31
It does, yeah. Definitely.
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:34
Has your relationship with the knitting changed since
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:37
it's... I guess it's been your job for a long time now, but I
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:40
don't know whether you ever feel like it feels too much like work
Mia Hobbs:
00:34:45
now? Or not really?
Lydia Gluck:
00:34:46
Not the actual knitting itself, because our
Lydia Gluck:
00:34:51
jobs are knitting-related... I mean, they're pretty much all
Lydia Gluck:
00:34:56
about knitting. But actually making things... I mean, it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:34:58
not NOT part of our job, but that's not the main thing that
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:02
we're doing when we're working for Pom Pom. My relationship to
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:08
knitting has changed over the past 10 years, but I think it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:12
not entirely to do with my job. I think it's more to do with
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:14
more general shifts in life. Actually, knitting has been a
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:18
real constant. It's quite amazing how much... I had to
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:21
take a break from it at the beginning of last year because I
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:24
got repetitive strain injury in my elbows, which was really
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:27
difficult actually, because I remember just thinking, "We're
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:29
just about to go into a lockdown here. What am I going to do? I'm
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:35
not allowed to go out and about (and quite right) but what am I
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:39
going to...?" I was almost quite panicked! But aside from that
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:44
break, I've very steadily knitted. And if anything, Pom
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:48
Pom adds a positive dimension to knitting because it means that
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:56
you see people sending in submissions, or you see a new
Lydia Gluck:
00:35:59
yarn that you haven't worked with yet, and it kind of keeps
Lydia Gluck:
00:36:01
the excitement, I think.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:03
I think when we first started, the problem
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:05
was that we didn't have enough time to knit. [Laughs] We were
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:11
always like, "Aargh, we started this knitting magazine and now
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:14
we have no time to knit because we're always working on it!" But
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:18
we've got lots of colleagues now so that we do have more time to
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:26
knit. But yeah, you're right. I have never fallen out of love
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:31
with knitting on this trajectory, and I'm constantly
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:37
inspired.
Mia Hobbs:
00:36:40
The last question that I always ask is about the
Mia Hobbs:
00:36:43
greatest gift that knitting has given you for the rest of your
Mia Hobbs:
00:36:46
life. Any thoughts?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:36:48
It's Lydia! [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:36:52
Aw! What a great answer! I mean, other people
Mia Hobbs:
00:36:56
can't get one though, so... [Laughs]
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:00
Yeah, and I would say the greatest gift has been
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:03
Meghan and the people that we work with.
Mia Hobbs:
00:37:08
I guess you get to curate your own team now!
Meghan Fernandes:
00:37:11
Yeah!
Mia Hobbs:
00:37:14
Of cool people.
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:17
Yeah, that's the first question on the
application form:
00:37:18
are you cool? [Laughs] You have to be cool.
Mia Hobbs:
00:37:28
Do you mean like your relationships more than Pom Pom?
Mia Hobbs:
00:37:32
Or both?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:37:33
Yeah, it would be sad if Pom Pom ended but it
Meghan Fernandes:
00:37:40
would be sadder if Lydia and I ended, you know?
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:44
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think there are
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:51
lots of kinds of partnerships in life, and I think a creative
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:55
partnership is a kind that maybe doesn't get discussed as much.
Lydia Gluck:
00:37:58
And actually, I think it's really lucky that we met each
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:00
other when we did and that we happened to both be a little bit
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:04
at a loose end. We have similar vision and taste for Pom Pom,
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:08
but it's not the same and that's really important. And I think
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:13
that without Meghan, I definitely wouldn't have been
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:16
able to achieve anything even close to what we've done with
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:19
Pom Pom. And it's kind of the power of both of us together.
Lydia Gluck:
00:38:24
We're a sum greater than our parts.
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:27
Yeah. But actually, also, there's been a lot of
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:31
evolution on that journey, I guess, that it started off as a
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:35
kind of creative project. And then got quite big and you
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:39
probably ended up doing lots of different jobs. And maybe you've
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:42
ended up back in more of the creative director role, probably
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:46
through having to also be the people who wrap things and
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:49
figure out how to produce things and all of those things... that
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:53
you've managed to maintain your friendship and be good business
Mia Hobbs:
00:38:57
partners throughout that. And an international move also, Meghan?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:03
Yeah, I was thinking about recently the
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:07
moment when I told Lydia I was moving. [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:11
How did that go?
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:13
Not really great! [Laughs]
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:16
That must have been scary for both of you.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:17
We were both pretty stressed out about it, I
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:19
think. But we did it and it was fine. And actually it's been
Meghan Fernandes:
00:39:25
good I think! For Pom Pom.
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:28
I don't know, Lydia, whether you were kind of
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:30
co-opted into Meghan's answer [laughs] or whether you wanted
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:34
to have a completely different one, which you're also allowed
Mia Hobbs:
00:39:37
to!
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:39
I don't feel like I was co-opted, as Meghan said the
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:42
thing that I couldn't... I hadn't quite got my brain into
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:46
gear. Yeah, I was just trying to think, I don't know what the...
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:48
Aside from the gift of making, which I think is pretty much my
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:55
favourite thing to do in my life, to make things. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:39:59
knitting is not the only way in which I make things, but it was
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:03
the first one that I really got into, the first craft that I
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:08
really kind of... mastered is not really what I mean, but you
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:13
know... the first craft that I really put a lot of time and
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:16
energy into, enough that it became something I could do
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:20
whilst watching TV or whatever. I had that real muscle memory.
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:24
And that's led on to me learning other crafts too. I think it's
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:31
good that it started with knitting.
Mia Hobbs:
00:40:32
Super, thank you. If people want to find out more
Mia Hobbs:
00:40:36
about Pom Pom, or about you guys specifically, how can they do
Mia Hobbs:
00:40:40
that?
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:41
Well, you can find us on Instagram @pompommag. And
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:50
our website is pompommag.com. I think in most of the places we
Lydia Gluck:
00:40:53
are pompommag. Is that true? I can't remember now.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:40:56
We're pompommag everywhere.
Mia Hobbs:
00:40:59
There's also the Pomcast.
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:02
Yes. So we have a podcast which is normally me and
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:06
Sophie, who works with us, presenting although we do often
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:10
have other Pom Pom people on and guests. And you can find that as
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:16
Pomcast in I think pretty much all of the podcast-related
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:19
feeds.
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:20
Thank you so much, Meghan and Lydia, for joining
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:23
the podcast.
Meghan Fernandes:
00:41:24
Thank you!
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:25
Yeah, thank you so much for having us. It's been
Lydia Gluck:
00:41:26
really nice.
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:29
Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:31
podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:34
knitting, you can follow me on Instagram
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:36
@knittingistherapeutic, or at my website therapeuticknitting.org
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:41
where you can also sign up to my newsletter to receive my blog on
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:44
the themes from series one. If you're enjoying the podcast, I
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:47
would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:50
review on your podcast app. This will help grow the podcast and
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:54
let more people know about the therapeutic benefits of
Mia Hobbs:
00:41:56
knitting. And don't forget to subscribe too. Thank you!