Building Your Personal Brand: Standing Out in a Crowded Marketplace (ft. Nick Giannas)

Ed (00:00.846)
Hey everyone, it's Ed. Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. Thanks for being with us. We know you have a lot of great choices out there of things to listen to, as I do, and you've chosen us. And I appreciate that, and you'll be happy you did because our guest is just amazing, Nick Giannis. Nick, welcome to Digital Voices.

Nick Giannas (00:21.592)
Well, thank you so much. Ed, how you doing?

Ed (00:26.722)
Now I'm so excited about this conversation, Nick, because this is so critical to a majority of our listeners who are in the profession. And they're always wondering about their career and should it be planned out? Should it not be planned out? Do they work with a recruitment organization? know, how does all that stuff work? And, and a lot of people don't know, and they have a lot of questions, but they're afraid to ask. So you're the perfect person, senior partner from WhittKeiffer to join us. So

I've had tremendous respect for WhittKeiffer and I've had a lot of success working with WhittKeiffer on both the buyer and receiver side. So I really appreciate all that you do. So the...

Nick Giannas (01:06.732)
Well, thank you so much. It's really nice to meet with you today. And I want to thank you so much for having me on the show.

Ed (01:13.644)
Yeah, Nick, you and I, we go back quite some time, as I mentioned, you know, with with WhittKieffer. And so I've known about you and you put out great content as well as what WhittKieffer does. And you're so helpful to many of my friends. And so again, so glad to have you on. But the most important question, Nick, isn't about careers or anything like that. It's about the songs on your playlist. What kind of music do you like to listen to?

Nick Giannas (01:38.21)
Yeah, I love music and all types of music across all genres. It's the mood that you're in, the feeling that you have. have two kids and that pump you up music sometimes before a game. But I guess if I were to pick one genre over another, it's primarily rock. So I like to listen to everything from alternative rock to pop rock. So

Journey, U2, Maroon 5, Coldplay, probably one of my favorites. So I was actually listening to a couple of their songs yesterday. I love the instruments, the beat, but also the meaningful messages.

Ed (02:26.914)
Yeah, I love Coldplay. That's one band I've not seen in concert. It's still on my list. Yeah, and like you said, not only great musicianship, but the lyrics have deep meaning. I actually print sometimes one of the songs in particular and try to figure out the deeper meaning. It's pretty interesting. It's good music. What about your life mantra or message to live by? Is there something that guides Nick?

Nick Giannas (02:57.346)
Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to the golden rule, right? You know, treat others like you want to be treated. And I know many probably would say that, but I, I, you know, my parents instilled a lot of those, you know, moral values when I was younger, right? Honesty, respect, hard work. My parents, you know, are immigrants. They worked really hard in their life and

you know, all those things of care, compassion, be respectful to others. I think they hold true. It's easy to be, you know, difficult. And, but you have to be true to yourself. You have to be true to others. And I think I lived by, lived by those values that my parents taught me when I was younger. I would say other things like little, you know, messages like nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

You got to be willing to get, take a chance, go out of your comfort zone. So times, some other like a little messages like don't sweat the small stuff. You know, I think, I think each week we're, we're dealing with challenges and some of them are small and we get stuck on them and you need to be able to process them and pivot. Otherwise you really just get stuck and you can't move forward. So I would think.

those few messages that really stand out.

Ed (04:26.232)
Yeah, that's good stuff. It reminds me we do have a playlist of all the everyone's favorite music on Spotify, we have a digital voices playlist, but we're also creating sort of a playlist of everyone's mantras. And so it'll be a great collection where you can go to look for inspiration from leaders like yourself. So Nick, you dropped something new on me that I didn't know about. it feeds right into you know, my next question that is tell tell us a little bit about something about yourself personally, professionally, but so you dropped on me that your parents were immigrants. So

I would love to hear that story and where they came from.

Nick Giannas (04:58.508)
Yeah. Yeah. So my parents both, came from Greece. And so, with very little, they were fortunate enough though. had some relatives, in the United States that, know, family helps family. Right. and so, you know, but they met and, and, my dad worked really hard in his life to, to, to, to give us a better life. Right. So he worked night shifts.

And I remember when I got older, I would see him go to work and then come in early in the morning. And it just goes back to, you know, wanting to work hard. Cause you saw what your parents did for you, right? It gave you the opportunity to have a better life, really. So I grew up in the, in the suburb, in a suburb of Chicago. It was a product of the public school system from kindergarten through, through high school.

Ed (05:41.58)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (05:55.522)
And an interesting thing is that in eighth grade, and I have to say this, that I didn't appreciate this as much back then of what of an honor it was. I more so appreciated it that I wanted to get a job and I wanted to not ask my parents for money.

So I should go to what I'm talking to you about. But in eighth grade, one of my teachers came up to me and said, you know, I have a job for you. And I was like, job? You know, this is great, you know? And it was for a law firm. And so I appreciated I was getting a job so that I didn't have to ask my parents for money, but I never really appreciated the honor because he could have, you know, asked another one of my classmates, right? So it was great. So I had to get a worker's permit.

Ed (06:37.528)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (06:45.324)
You know, and, and, and it was just a great opportunity to work at a professional firm. And so I worked all through high school and college at the law firm. had other jobs as well to help me pay through my undergrad. And so again, those values that my parents instilled in me working hard, right, shows there. so, you know, when I graduated, I had a lot of ideas. I played hockey too, by the way. So, you know, I love sports.

And so, you know, I thought I was going to be, you know, I wanted to be a hockey player. wanted to be a sports agent. I wanted to be a lawyer. And, you know, while I was in college, I did take some marketing research courses and I got interested in research. so, you know, when I realized I wasn't making the NHL, right. And I didn't want to go to law school much to the chagrin of the law firm who wanted me to go to law school.

I found it, it wasn't a good, the year I graduated, wasn't a really good year for, it just wasn't a really good job market. And so I applied for a job at Wakeefer as a research analyst. And the rest is history, right? And I've been with Wakeefer over 20 years. So, and, you know, moved up through the ranks from, you know, a research analyst to...

Ed (07:58.05)
Wow.

Nick Giannas (08:11.459)
an associate senior associate consultant principal and now to my current role as senior partner. So that's kind of the story.

Ed (08:19.212)
Wow. See, didn't know any of that. That's pretty interesting. What about hockey? Do you still play today like recreational leagues or anything?

Nick Giannas (08:28.146)
I would love to. I would love to. I, you know, I get on the ice sometimes with my little guy. He's a goalie and he's going to be starting travel hockey. Actually, this week is going to start, I think, a tryout. So, so sometimes I get on the ice and I'll tell you, it's, I'm not as, as good as I used to be in the best condition.

to be on the ice, I would love to get on the ice and get on a team, you know, in a men's league or something like that, or an adult league, but I just haven't had the time. And now with the kids where, you know, one plays baseball, one plays hockey, work, you know, you're trying to, you know, vacation to Disney, you know, trying to make this work.

Ed (09:18.584)
Yeah, that's cool. So, Whitt Keiffer, so tell us a little bit about the founding story of Whitt Keiffer and sort of the mission and vision.

Nick Giannas (09:27.486)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about that. So, Whitt Keiffer, I think turns 55 this year. So the firm's been around since 1969 and has experienced really a lot of growth, transformation and success. And I've been very fortunate to be a part of that. As I told you, you know, they gave me the opportunity and not only they opened the door for me after I graduated from college, but they, I've been able to.

to be promoted several times. So I've been a part of that growth and that's really special. So traditionally we were an executive search firm solely, right? To today, we're a global multi -solution professional services firm. So that's everything from executive search, mid -level search, so mid -level executives.

to interim leadership and on demand solutions and also leadership advisory. And so you'll ask, what's the leadership advisory? We have a practice that focuses in on things like, you know, executive coaching and development, assessment and, succession team development, cultural development, et cetera. So with all that evolution and growth, what has not changed and what has been consistent throughout

are, you know, throughout the time I've been there and I'm sure even before, is our long standing commitment to improving the quality of life. And our purpose is to improve the quality of life through impactful leadership. We focus in on what we call the quality of life ecosystem. So those sectors of academic medicine, education, healthcare, and it's really, really rewarding to be in those sectors, obviously.

you know, the impact they make in our country and in the world. But it's been a great ride. And, you know, when I started, just to put it in perspective, I want to say there was maybe a hundred team members and now we're up to about 340. That's accurate. About 340, 350. So it's great. And we have a great team of individuals. We really value the diverse

Ed (11:37.698)
Wow.

Nick Giannas (11:49.567)
backgrounds and experiences and we really work, we thrive together in a team oriented fashion.

Ed (11:56.546)
Yeah, no, that's cool. And I love the it makes total sense the full service like yeah, you started off just doing like executive search. But obviously it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that those executives that are there are successful. So you get the coaching, but also sort of that whole career lifecycle, if you will. So makes total amount of sense. Now maybe you already dropped something on me that I don't know about with WhittKieffer. Is there anything else that you wanted to share about with WhittKieffer that people might not know?

Nick Giannas (12:24.814)
Yeah. well, I guess one thing that stands out, we're a private employee owned firm, right? So about 35 partners, who, have a vested interest in, the success of the company. And I was fortunate to be named a partner recently. and we're proud of being an employee owned company. And I think if you have the opportunity to be a shareholder of the company that you're dedicated to, I think that's pretty awesome. Right. I mean,

Ed (12:52.834)
Yeah, love it.

Nick Giannas (12:54.73)
So I think that's it. I think a couple of other things that I would mention that I, maybe others know, but you know, we're a high touch firm, working with our, working with, the institutions that we partner with our clients as well as candidates, right? And you had mentioned the experiences that you have. So we have a relentless pursuit for quality and customer service and, and continual improvement. And I think that, you know, that,

You know, one thing that, you know, maybe how we differentiate in a way is that, well, in one way that really stands out for me is that, you know, we know in each industry that we serve, organizations have a lot of the same, challenges and, and opportunities, but we really understand it. We, we, we look at it that every organization is unique. So we seek to understand, listen and learn while at the same time provide sound counsel and advice.

Ed (13:53.772)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (13:54.07)
So along with the services that obviously we provide, whether it's executive search or leadership advisory and so forth.

Ed (14:01.836)
Yeah, no, I love it. Yeah, let's, let's jump right into sort of career things. Tell us your thoughts about the difference, you know, or should there be not concerned, but what should CIOs traditional CIOs know, or CTOs know about the differences and the nuances CTO versus CIO versus CDIO? You know, how do you how do you look at all that titling?

Nick Giannas (14:26.994)
Well, Ed, I want to say this is that I'm just really excited. You and I have been doing this a long time, right? Where we know where the, and I'll just use, just because there's different titling CIO, the senior leader over technology. We remember the days when the conversation was about, should they be at that level? Should they be part of the senior leadership team? And now we're past that.

Right. And really what you're talking about is having a conversation around the expansion of the role and how it's really a transformative role, right? It's a transformational position. So, and I will say that you add and your peers in the healthcare technology space really paved the way to get to this point. Because that position is truly evolved. we, so

Ed (14:54.701)
Yeah.

Ed (15:17.027)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (15:22.562)
Going back to the times, we can all agree the CIO is typically responsible for the traditional areas, IT infrastructure, applications, EMR, IT operations, the Chief Digital Officer role, especially in health systems, large health systems. About seven years ago, you started to see large health systems say, we want a separate leader, right?

We want a leader that is going to be the CDO and be responsible for innovation and transformation through the utilization of digital technology, right? To improve, you know, the patient experience, right? Now we're thinking about it more from patient provider and overall user experience, which employees as well. And so, and you fast forward to now, it's really moving towards the trend is moving towards

you know, having one leader over both those areas, the traditional IP area as well as digital. And, someone might ask you and say, well, how does that go? Because the CIO role, you know, at is still widely used, right? I think where it's more used in organizations where they're still trying to deal with

Nick Giannas (16:47.362)
You know, large scale technical debt. They're trying to build out their foundation around infrastructure and applications where the CDIO role is more so in organizations. You'll see it more so that, you know, they're on their journey of digital or they just started and they're talking about things like the digital front door and, online, scheduling and wayfinding. And now you're seeing.

You know, those that are further along are talking about some really, really exciting things, right? Not to say Wayfinding isn't exciting when it first came out, but now you're seeing, you know, ambient technology, right? You're talking about AI. And it's really, it's really an exciting time.

Ed (17:25.356)
Yes.

Ed (17:30.53)
Yeah, yeah, there's no doubt about that. And so Nick, that's my next question is how thoughtful should senior tech executives be about their career? Because it seemed to me like sometimes it's sort of happenstance, but is there some wisdom into planning your career long term?

Nick Giannas (17:54.004)
the simple answer is yes. And I think you should spend a significant amount of time of planning, right. And being thoughtful about it. So think about it in your, your roles, add your, help several CXO roles in your career, right. Each week, a weekend and week out. Right. You were planning you, you, you were using your strategic planning skills and vision. Right.

Ed (18:13.827)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (18:18.166)
Why not put those skills to use when it comes to your career and develop a career plan. And it doesn't have to be anything complex. I'm not asking you to develop an organizational IT strategic plan here, right? But, but a simple plan that, you know, you have milestones, you have, you know, motivators, factors, and an end goal. Right. And.

I think that type of career planning helps mitigate things like you maybe applied for several different positions that are maybe not the right ones, or maybe helps you mitigate from accepting a role that's not the right one. How many people have you hired in your career Ed where, you know, or have seen resumes where you've seen people kind of move around a little bit? perhaps the career plan would have helped them, right? to, not, you know, jump from one position to the next.

and so forth. so I would also say is that this career plan doesn't have to be set in stone, right? It can evolve as you evolve, right? But it'll be beneficial so you're not starting from scratch. A couple other things that I think are important too.

Ed (19:35.458)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (19:41.472)
is I think that...

Nick Giannas (19:45.504)
We get focused. I mean, when you're a CXO, you've been successful in your career, right? And you get so focused on the professional side and you forget to realize that's only one aspect of your life. There's the personal side, right? So think about it, those personal factors, aging parents,

Ed (20:01.164)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (20:12.928)
kids, your spouse's career, all those financial aspects. You're going to be investing in a long -term incentive next year. That's considerable dollars on the table. You have to think about those things early on. They might not be fully addressed.

but at least think about them because you don't want to go downstream in a search process and get to the end and realize, I got to now think about these things. And in that short period of time, it's hard to make really good decisions. So going back to your question about being thoughtful about your career pre -planning, I think it's very important.

Ed (20:54.892)
Yeah.

Ed (20:59.265)
Right.

Nick Giannas (21:07.054)
We can even touch on work -life balance, right? That being important as well. So I guess the net -net there is that you've been successful in your career because you've pre -planned or successful in your jobs because of planning and so forth. Why not do the same when you're thinking about your career overall?

Ed (21:26.86)
Yeah, no, makes total sense to me and the way you explained it is super, super helpful. What about, here's a sort of semi -controversial topic for some of my peers and that's branding. So when you think about yourself, should leaders have a brand and be purposeful on that brand or just let things happen the way they happen?

Nick Giannas (21:51.895)
I would go with the former. think you should, be considered a brand. And I think, and, and, and I don't know if this is, I, well, I think this makes sense. I was asking my son a couple of weeks ago about, know, when, when you hear the word brand, what do you think of? And what you could guess, what do you have at Nike? or some other company, right? So I think we're hardwired at an early age.

Ed (22:14.414)
Right, yeah. Yeah.

Nick Giannas (22:19.628)
to think of branding as a company or a product as opposed to an individual. Right. And so I think you need to understand and recognize that you have a brand to start, right? You have a personal brand and it's something that you build over time. You advocate for it. You create brand awareness. I think

Ed (22:26.71)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Giannas (22:45.014)
You got to think about a couple of questions that you should probably be thinking about our

When you think about branding, you think about, you know, how do you want others to think of you? Right. And how do they actually think of you? Right. In the market. Cause that could be two different things. So, you know, I, and I, you know, you should, your, your brand should be defined by your values and what you believe in. Right. If, if you're not passionate about something and you're not authentic about it, it's not, it's not going to work out well, but.

Ed (22:59.49)
Right.

Ed (23:02.978)
No.

Nick Giannas (23:21.442)
You know, think about things that you're passionate about, that make up your brand. mean, developing and mentoring people, for example. Right. That one comes to mind. your reputation, can be supported, around that by your thoughts and actions. So you could clearly communicate your support for professional development, but your actions can also, you know, you can support it. Right. So.

How many times when you talk to leaders like yourself and you'll say, what are you most proud of? And they'll say, I'm most proud of those that reported to me are, when I was a CIO or a COO, they moved up into the CIO or COO role, right? So you see that you can have a brand of being someone that does support that and your actions and words can speak to it.

Ed (24:13.12)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm in complete agreement. What about under or over exposure in the industry? you you do something good, you develop a brand, and suddenly everyone wants you to speak, everyone wants you to write, all that kind of stuff. Is there a balance in under or being overexposed?

Nick Giannas (24:37.952)
Yeah, I wish I can develop a formula. Maybe that's what we should do at an AI tool that can compute that perfect balance, right? I guess on the overexposure side, what I would say is that if you consistently provide value for other people, you won't risk overexposure, right?

Ed (24:42.264)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (25:04.812)
You know, one way we, you know, have exposure through social media, right? It's a, it's a, it's a really good platform if you use it well. Right. And so if you, if you post things, you know, that are meaningful lessons learned, what are other things, how to, this is how we solve this problem. This is the path we took, you know, those things, you know, promotions,

Ed (25:12.44)
Yes.

Nick Giannas (25:34.2)
promoting your team, those things resonate with people, right? I think where you maybe have overexposure is in the sense of if there's too much self -promoting or you're really focused on divisive topics, right? You wanna stick to things that are unifying ideas and messages and people know when you're genuine.

And on social media, by the way, if you're, you could be easily skipped. It's a feed, right? So if you're overexposing in those, you know, not so positive areas, you know, people would say. So I do think there is a balance. I think it's finding your right balance.

Ed (26:03.981)
Yeah.

Ed (26:09.858)
Yeah, right.

Ed (26:21.614)
All right, what about differentiation in the marketplace? So lot of the stuff we just talked about will really help you, right? Having a plan and being very intentional and focused, having the right balance of exposure, but how do you differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace? So let's just say there's, know, I don't know the number, but for the sake of example, there's a thousand CIOs and everyone aspires to be in that top 10 organizations to be the CIO. What can you do to sort of differentiate yourself as a candidate?

Nick Giannas (26:28.299)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (26:52.428)
Yeah. And it went in and out a little bit, but I think your question is around differentiation. And, and, and what I would say is, that there are a couple things that are no brainers, but we sometimes just don't think about them is being visible. I often hear from, you know, the hiring executive or key stakeholders that I'm talking with about a search when we meet with them, when we start a search, should say,

And they'll say we want a visible leader enterprise -wide right someone who can build strong relationships someone that can partner with others and But we also want them to be externally present as well or focused to a degree right and because we want

that individual to bring in those new innovative ideas that maybe we're not thinking of that knowledge. Right. And now at it's an exciting time, right. As a CIO or CDIO or whatever the title may be. You know, there's technology partnerships, there's entrepreneurial co -development. There's so much exciting things. So I think being visible both internally and externally can really differentiate you.

Ed (27:51.596)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (28:14.998)
Right and and you know, there's some people that have been very successful who have been internally focused and you you may never see them at a conference or or presenting and it and it works out right, but I think what can differentiate you is that is is being both I think also is There is a saying or a belief that says

And I believe in this. The best way to improve your life is to improve the lives of others. Right? And so I think that can be, you know, switch the life part and put the best way to improve your career is by improving the careers of others. Right? And I believe it holds true from a career perspective.

Ed (29:01.612)
Yeah, love it.

Ed (29:05.991)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (29:06.39)
Think about this, how many times you've heard in your career, you're only as strong as your team or, you know, my team's success leads to my success. Right. So I think if you put others first and not always yourself, that could really differentiate you. And that goes back to, you know, serving as a mentor, developing and helping people. I think you can really differentiate yourself that way.

Ed (29:16.653)
Yeah.

Ed (29:32.174)
This is such good stuff. My mind's about to explode. Try to think of the summary here, Dick. But one last question before we get there. And that is, how can someone best work with a firm like WhittKeiffer? So what's one thing that senior execs should be doing proactively? Yeah.

Nick Giannas (29:53.25)
Establish relationships with, it almost goes, I have to say this, that life is all about relationships. Think of those five words. Life is about, about relationship, all about relationships and both on the personal side and on the professional side. and so what I would say is establish relationships with an executive search consultant or a recruiter, someone that you could trust that could provide candid advice.

Don't treat it as a transaction. And what do I mean by that? I only reach out to a recruiter when I'm looking for a job or a search consultant when I'm looking for a job or I'm waiting for them to reach out to me when they have a job opportunity. Treat it as a meaningful long -term mutually beneficial relationship.

Ed (30:47.395)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (30:48.51)
And you have a relationship with us. You don't talk to us every day or every week and so forth, but you have a relationship, right? Where there's an exchange of thoughts, ideas. It doesn't always have to be about a transaction or a job, right? Meet up at conferences, stay connected. I have relationships with leaders for two decades and it's...

Ed (30:54.168)
Yeah, yes.

Ed (31:01.366)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Giannas (31:16.246)
It's like a friend that you grew up with, right? Where you separate, you were with each other all your life early on and then you don't maybe see each other as much. But when you do, you start back up where you left. So I have relationships with leaders just like that where, you know, we're not talking every month or every, but, you know, we start off where we last left and, you know, we...

Ed (31:34.808)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (31:44.002)
You know, we talk about family, we talk about what's going on, what are the trends out there. It's not always just about a job.

Ed (31:52.822)
Yeah, no nick. It has been been great learning about you and your parents being immigrants and that work ethic that they gave you your early in your career, just how you got this opportunity with keifer and made the most of this year you're you're practicing what you're preaching, and then the whole vision around, know being global company now and the whole vision around improving quality of life, but then we talked about careers

And you should have a plan. So I'm just kind of giving the exact summary. Yes, definitely have a plan, but a flexible plan. Definitely think about your brand and how you improve that brand and share that brand. Be authentic. You said that a couple of times. I think that's so key. know, follow your passions and focus on other people. So improve lives of others, improve careers of others. Be visible, be a collaborator. Those were some of the Uber themes that just came out.

Establish a relationship now with search consultant and because life is all about relationship five key words So much good stuff Nick. I could have gone on and on just on the executive summer, but For the sake of time. What did we miss or what would you like to double down on? I'll give you the last word today

Nick Giannas (33:06.9)
I have to thank you for that and thank you for this opportunity. What do I want to double down on? I guess being a lifelong learner, the healthcare technology space is changing in many ways dramatically and that anyone that you have to be transformational, you have to adapt and be agile, otherwise,

Ed (33:17.336)
Yeah.

Nick Giannas (33:36.214)
you'll be left behind. It is ever changing. I think valuing the hard work of others, empowering your teams, all those things, motivating your staff, I think all of that plays into it. And so I guess that's what I would lead with.

Ed (33:37.667)
Yeah.

Ed (33:56.258)
Yeah, no, that's Sage advice. Nick, thank you again for being part of Digital Voices. And that wraps up another episode. Thanks for listening.

Nick Giannas (34:07.758)
Thank you.