Queer Quest: a quantum-inspired journey of self-discovery

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World Stories

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podcast. I'm Andre Glesser. And in October

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2025,

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Queer Quest, a journey to self discovery, took

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place in Chicago.

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The event was recognized by UNESCO

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as officially part of the International Year of

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Quantum Science and Technology. In this episode, we're

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joined by Jessica and Emily Esquivel, who have

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come together to create this innovative event.

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And

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it is, of course, in Chicago

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where recent increased immigration enforcement operations have created

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a heightened sense of tension and uncertainty across

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many communities.

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It's within this atmosphere

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that QueerQuest

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was forged

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with a view to build connection and resilience,

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offering as a reminder that science is not

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separate

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from the lives of those who do it.

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I'm doctor Jessica Esquivel. I'm a particle physicist

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and cofounder of Oya Nova Enterprises.

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I am Emily Esquivel.

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I am a licensed clinical

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professional counselor,

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and I'm the other cofounder, the mental health

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side of Oya Nova Enterprises,

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and I own my own,

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private practice called Oya Nova Healing. So Oya

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Nova is really us, I would say, in

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business form.

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The mission of Oya Nova is to forge

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innovative social initiatives through the power of community,

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and QueerQuest is one of those initiatives.

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We realized that

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as we were going through

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the ivory tower of academia,

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we saw a lot of, like, professional development

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spaces

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that were really focused only on the career

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progression

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of us in both of our fields.

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But when you're marginalized

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in STEAM, when you're marginalized in,

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mental health practice,

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leaving that holistic approach

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to career progression

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was was lacking.

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And that's where we thought Olinova could really

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find that niche. Mhmm. I think through our

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conversations, we were really realizing,

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that,

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yes,

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higher education

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is important,

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but at what cost Mhmm. To our bodies,

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to our mental health, to our well-being.

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And I think we both

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had firsthand

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experiences

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of struggling to maintain

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our bodies,

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our minds

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as we moved through the

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education system.

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Yeah. In a lot of ways,

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for marginalized

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people,

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academia

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can be like a toxic relationship

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Mhmm. That you just can't kick. Right?

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I have

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a a passion for for physics and for

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studying,

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you know, the building blocks of our universe,

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but that came at a cost to

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my well-being

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and and being high cost. Yeah. And being

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in spaces that

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truly affected,

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like, my mental health.

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And when talking to

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specifically other black women in the field of

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physics,

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this,

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depression after PhD

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was

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a norm and not an anomaly.

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And we weren't talking about how it kind

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of ravaged our bodies and our minds.

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And while it's a huge accomplishment, like,

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I know

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that I'm only one of a 150 black

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women with a PhD in physics. Like, that's

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huge. But

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the weight of it, right, was also huge.

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And, yeah, we really just wanted to create

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a safe space to have conversations like that.

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And it wasn't until,

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like, 2020

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that

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even the conversation around mental health

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was bubbling up to the surface in our,

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like, science

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fields. It was these conversations

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between Jessica and Emily around the time of

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the COVID nineteen pandemic

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that led them to see the critical need

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for connections

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and support networks within higher education,

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especially for marginalized groups. And these conversations

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were the start of a journey that led

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to the creation of QueerQuest,

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an event that blended the boundaries of science,

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healing, and community

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to celebrate black, brown, and queer identities.

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When Em and I were having these late

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night conversations,

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having the the

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the understanding of, like, what it means to

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be

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black,

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brown, queer,

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marginalized

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in STEAM,

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and and

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how therapy and therapists can help support that

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journey.

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Like, that was also kind of, like, a

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an a part of that puzzle.

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Yeah. And I would say from the mental

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health perspective, it was through those conversations too

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that you start realizing,

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oh, there are serious limitations to,

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just one on one talk therapy.

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And

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while it's great and amazing and I'm a

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therapist and that's what I do,

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it has its limitations.

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And

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we were

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the more we started having these conversations, the

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more,

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we started recognizing

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how many people were also having the same

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experience in higher education,

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where it was taking a toll on their

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mental health, on their bodies, and the sacrifices

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being made to do this. So,

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yeah, this is part of, I think,

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what

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got me thinking more about the limitations

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of

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white westernized

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theories

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for mental health and really leaning into more,

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like, holistic practices,

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to address the whole person,

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not just the individual. Yeah. And I think

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that's where, one, QueerQuest was born, right, out

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of those late night conversations,

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and, two,

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how quantum mechanics

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became like our

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North Star.

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And we use these concepts of superposition,

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of being in many states, of entanglement,

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of, understanding that

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healing in community

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is better than, you know, isolated kind of,

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healing.

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Mhmm.

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And and we kind of

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framed QueerQuest,

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with quantum mechanics and use quantum as, like,

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a framework for liberation.

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So all of our our workshops

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and our,

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questions,

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they they hit upon

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really

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complex concepts

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for, like, the general audience. Right?

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But what we saw

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was that

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there's language

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in the mental health space

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that mirrors a lot of the quantum mechanical

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concepts. It was so cool. It really

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was.

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And it wouldn't have like, those

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really awesome cross pollination

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conversations

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wouldn't have happened if we didn't have both

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therapists and scientists in the room. Mhmm. And

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I think,

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like, we've grown

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together

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because of those conversations,

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and it was just wild to see that

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kind of mirrored back

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to us. Mhmm.

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And one of I think the one of

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the, like, most meaningful

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meaningful feedback that I got was from

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sisters.

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One of them is a physicist, and the

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other one is a mental health therapist.

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And they said that their relationship

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was changed because of QueerQuest.

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Yeah. They they said that

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they weren't able to talk to each other,

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that the languages that each were using within

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their careers

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were, like, isolated and separate.

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But QueerQuest was able to give them language

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to shared language. Shared language.

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And now they're discussing. So,

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the physicist

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is a science communicator and educator, and she

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teaches teachers to teach science.

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And now they're having conversations about, like, let's

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expand that and use language, like science

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communication language to help mental health therapists expand

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how they

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help with healing and and therapy. Okay. It

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was wild. It was just wild. Like

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And I think that was also that was

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part of the hope for us in bringing

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together these two communities at an event like

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this. I mean, it's us. Right? We have

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come

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to an understanding

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of each other

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throughout the last fifteen years and have a

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shared language about how we talk about science

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and mental health.

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And,

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I think just destigmatizing

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the conversations

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Both on both ends. On both ends. Right?

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We had therapists saying, I'm just, quote, unquote,

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a therapist. Like, what am I doing with

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these scientists? Mhmm. And then we had scientists

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being like,

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woah. My mind is blown about what you

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just said about, like, mental health, like, in

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the context of what I just explained with

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regards to quantum physics.

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And so it really it was so cool

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to see

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these communities come together and create and demystify,

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destigmatize

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both fields and create a shared language,

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where,

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just the connections were amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

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Most of the people who listen to this

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probably won't have been to QueerQuest. So can

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can you tell me what people would experience

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when they were there? Oh, man. It was

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magical.

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So QueerQuest,

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we wanted it to be a space where

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black, brown, queer folk were centered and prioritized,

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where

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we we kind of said it was like

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a unconference conference.

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So we baked in

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time for rest and regulation.

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We baked in time for community building,

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and

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baked in those, like, spaces

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for conversation.

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So our days both days started out with

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a cosmic awakening

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slash grounding ceremony.

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So well, it started out with breakfast because

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food is important.

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In our communities

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in in our cultures,

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we build community around food. So that was

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also a very intentional space that we created.

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Yeah. We had so many people. We we

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00:11:22,804 --> 00:11:24,584
had a local chef from Chicago,

287
00:11:25,764 --> 00:11:26,985
black, queer owned,

288
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:28,480
and,

289
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,519
he just pulled out all the stops for

290
00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:34,159
breakfast. And we got so many comments talking

291
00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:36,159
about, oh, we thought this was just gonna

292
00:11:36,159 --> 00:11:38,419
be, like, a sad continental breakfast,

293
00:11:39,039 --> 00:11:41,379
both, like, with bagels and cream cheese.

294
00:11:42,725 --> 00:11:44,804
He invited us into his home. It felt

295
00:11:44,804 --> 00:11:47,845
like we were sitting around his family kitchen

296
00:11:47,845 --> 00:11:50,485
table, and that that's what we wanted. That's

297
00:11:50,485 --> 00:11:53,284
what started off our event. Yes. And then

298
00:11:53,284 --> 00:11:55,580
we moved into to our morning ritual, which

299
00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:57,519
was a thirty minute grounding

300
00:11:58,059 --> 00:12:00,860
ceremony. One day, we had yoga, and the

301
00:12:00,860 --> 00:12:02,559
other day, I think, we had reflections,

302
00:12:03,899 --> 00:12:06,220
and intention setting. So that started

303
00:12:06,804 --> 00:12:09,205
Those two things started off the day. Then

304
00:12:09,205 --> 00:12:10,665
we moved into a keynote,

305
00:12:12,325 --> 00:12:15,065
where on day one, we had Jessica

306
00:12:15,524 --> 00:12:16,024
and,

307
00:12:17,045 --> 00:12:19,384
Desiree Whitmore, our laser physicist.

308
00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:23,149
Who weaved or who both set the stage

309
00:12:23,149 --> 00:12:23,649
for

310
00:12:24,029 --> 00:12:25,009
quantum mechanics,

311
00:12:25,389 --> 00:12:26,769
mental health, nonbinariness,

312
00:12:28,669 --> 00:12:29,169
and,

313
00:12:29,549 --> 00:12:30,929
yeah, really just looking

314
00:12:31,389 --> 00:12:34,049
into the, like, fabric of our universe

315
00:12:35,815 --> 00:12:36,475
to highlight

316
00:12:37,095 --> 00:12:40,375
and uplift the experiences and journeys that we

317
00:12:40,375 --> 00:12:42,774
as queer people are taking and really just

318
00:12:42,774 --> 00:12:44,154
kind of showing that

319
00:12:45,014 --> 00:12:46,394
in the quantum realm,

320
00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:47,600
our nonbinariness,

321
00:12:48,539 --> 00:12:52,399
our weirdness, our queerness is actually more integrated

322
00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:55,200
into the fabric of space time than society

323
00:12:55,339 --> 00:12:58,399
is letting on, than society is telling us.

324
00:12:58,894 --> 00:13:00,815
And then we moved into the really cool

325
00:13:00,815 --> 00:13:02,754
part of the day, which was the multiverse.

326
00:13:04,174 --> 00:13:05,955
And we transformed,

327
00:13:07,695 --> 00:13:09,934
the gym at the center on Halsted here

328
00:13:09,934 --> 00:13:10,595
in Chicago,

329
00:13:11,139 --> 00:13:13,860
which is three full sized volleyball courts. So

330
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:14,839
it is massive.

331
00:13:15,379 --> 00:13:18,440
We transformed that into our, quote, unquote, multiverse,

332
00:13:18,659 --> 00:13:21,379
and you just walked in, and there were

333
00:13:21,379 --> 00:13:23,639
just these huge arches

334
00:13:24,304 --> 00:13:27,024
that said you belong here. They were purple.

335
00:13:27,024 --> 00:13:28,485
They had all of our branding.

336
00:13:29,024 --> 00:13:30,464
Anyways, we had our,

337
00:13:31,745 --> 00:13:33,904
we had Galaxy on the Go, which is

338
00:13:33,904 --> 00:13:34,644
a mobile

339
00:13:35,264 --> 00:13:35,764
Planetary.

340
00:13:36,315 --> 00:13:36,815
Planetarium

341
00:13:38,429 --> 00:13:41,169
and just designed a really amazing

342
00:13:42,029 --> 00:13:43,649
Visual video film,

343
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:46,209
that kind of walk through

344
00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:47,649
our past,

345
00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:50,049
queer ancestors,

346
00:13:50,589 --> 00:13:52,129
moved into our modern

347
00:13:53,084 --> 00:13:54,065
movement builders,

348
00:13:54,445 --> 00:13:55,504
where we highlighted,

349
00:13:56,684 --> 00:13:59,504
scientists core scientists from 500 core scientists,

350
00:13:59,884 --> 00:14:01,804
and then we moved into what the future

351
00:14:01,804 --> 00:14:02,464
could be,

352
00:14:02,924 --> 00:14:04,065
all in five minutes.

353
00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:09,360
And then we had our resource village, which

354
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,240
had community partners from all around Chicago Both

355
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,399
in STEAM and in mental health. That our

356
00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:17,279
attendees could engage with, talk with, get resources

357
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,299
Yeah. Adler port planetarium

358
00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:20,079
was,

359
00:14:20,674 --> 00:14:22,694
in attendance. We had the Chicago

360
00:14:23,235 --> 00:14:24,534
Science and Technology,

361
00:14:25,475 --> 00:14:27,254
c two s t,

362
00:14:28,834 --> 00:14:30,294
Chicago Therapy Collective.

363
00:14:31,235 --> 00:14:33,894
The Depth Collective Yeah. Which is an amazing

364
00:14:34,539 --> 00:14:37,360
small group practice here in Chicago, mental health.

365
00:14:37,899 --> 00:14:40,240
And then we had our rest and regulation

366
00:14:40,379 --> 00:14:42,620
lounge, which I think was probably the highlight

367
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:45,179
for a lot of people. Mhmm. That's where

368
00:14:45,179 --> 00:14:47,679
we had our cosmic awakenings in the morning.

369
00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:50,325
And then we had hammocks. We had

370
00:14:50,784 --> 00:14:51,284
biofeedback

371
00:14:51,904 --> 00:14:54,384
pods, which was really like a four foot

372
00:14:54,384 --> 00:14:54,884
beanbag

373
00:14:55,664 --> 00:14:58,084
inside of a pod we created. Mhmm.

374
00:14:58,384 --> 00:14:59,205
And each

375
00:14:59,664 --> 00:15:01,924
pod, we had three, had a different

376
00:15:02,384 --> 00:15:03,205
tech inspired

377
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,940
Biofeedback tool Yeah. To really show I mean,

378
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,360
we as scientists

379
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,559
I can speak for myself that the journey

380
00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:14,059
towards

381
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,460
recognizing and and understanding and validating my mental

382
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:20,615
health journey has been hard.

383
00:15:21,554 --> 00:15:23,975
Not only because I'm part of the black

384
00:15:24,195 --> 00:15:27,315
and Mexican community where, like, mental health, we're

385
00:15:27,315 --> 00:15:30,995
still working through shame. Right? But also in

386
00:15:30,995 --> 00:15:31,495
physics,

387
00:15:31,875 --> 00:15:33,415
like, there is shame around

388
00:15:34,669 --> 00:15:36,910
recognizing your mental health. Like, I am a

389
00:15:36,910 --> 00:15:37,889
late stage,

390
00:15:39,309 --> 00:15:39,809
ADHD

391
00:15:40,429 --> 00:15:41,730
diagnosed person.

392
00:15:42,429 --> 00:15:44,750
And I've talked to scientists that say I

393
00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:46,669
also have ADHD, but I don't talk about

394
00:15:46,669 --> 00:15:48,450
it because I don't want people to think

395
00:15:48,825 --> 00:15:50,764
any less of me as a scientist.

396
00:15:51,144 --> 00:15:52,665
So I really wanted to,

397
00:15:54,184 --> 00:15:54,925
have technology

398
00:15:56,105 --> 00:15:59,065
that we're comfortable with that we probably help

399
00:15:59,065 --> 00:16:01,565
develop in some way or fashion

400
00:16:02,105 --> 00:16:03,085
to show that

401
00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:04,070
meditation

402
00:16:04,769 --> 00:16:08,610
and and calmness really does affect our nervous

403
00:16:08,610 --> 00:16:09,110
system,

404
00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:13,029
for the better. So it was real time

405
00:16:13,090 --> 00:16:16,129
biofeedback to show. And people were so proud.

406
00:16:16,129 --> 00:16:18,345
They were quoting their numbers back to us.

407
00:16:18,345 --> 00:16:20,264
Like, you go in and you start with

408
00:16:20,264 --> 00:16:22,445
the meditation app, and,

409
00:16:23,544 --> 00:16:25,144
it gives you your number of, like, where

410
00:16:25,144 --> 00:16:26,524
your heart rate, your

411
00:16:26,825 --> 00:16:29,304
all of your resting stuff is at. And

412
00:16:29,304 --> 00:16:29,804
then,

413
00:16:30,825 --> 00:16:32,524
it walks you through the meditation.

414
00:16:32,985 --> 00:16:35,210
And, I mean, the numbers were

415
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:36,090
significant

416
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:37,450
decrease. Yeah.

417
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:40,549
And the other thing I'll say about the

418
00:16:40,549 --> 00:16:42,790
rest and regulation lounge was we had people

419
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:45,290
falling asleep in the in our hammock.

420
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:49,004
And, you know, I thought in the moment

421
00:16:49,004 --> 00:16:50,144
that was amazing

422
00:16:50,524 --> 00:16:51,824
and and what we wanted,

423
00:16:52,204 --> 00:16:53,904
but it took another therapist,

424
00:16:54,284 --> 00:16:56,924
like, reflecting back to me how meaningful that

425
00:16:56,924 --> 00:16:59,584
was. And they said, like, you don't understand

426
00:17:00,044 --> 00:17:00,690
what it takes

427
00:17:01,330 --> 00:17:02,870
to get someone to feel safe enough

428
00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:06,049
to feel like they can fall asleep in

429
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:08,690
a public place with people they don't know

430
00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:11,670
around them. Mhmm. So you need to

431
00:17:12,130 --> 00:17:14,130
kind of, like, let that sink in about

432
00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:16,605
the space y'all have created here. And I

433
00:17:16,605 --> 00:17:19,265
also want to kind of underscore that because

434
00:17:20,045 --> 00:17:23,005
center on Halsted is fifteen minutes away from

435
00:17:23,005 --> 00:17:23,505
Broadview

436
00:17:23,884 --> 00:17:25,424
where there's an ice camp.

437
00:17:26,684 --> 00:17:28,465
When we were doing, you know,

438
00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:31,980
walk throughs and tech checks and meeting, you

439
00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:34,640
know, with vendors at the center on Halsted,

440
00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:36,480
we're going back and forth

441
00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:37,759
in a very,

442
00:17:38,140 --> 00:17:40,240
like, high tension area.

443
00:17:43,455 --> 00:17:45,234
We were scared of driving.

444
00:17:45,695 --> 00:17:47,375
And the fact that we were able to

445
00:17:47,375 --> 00:17:50,174
create a a sanctuary, a space for people

446
00:17:50,174 --> 00:17:52,914
to feel safe enough to rest,

447
00:17:53,455 --> 00:17:53,955
right,

448
00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:55,579
As marginalized

449
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:56,380
people

450
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,000
who are scared of the current climate, who

451
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,160
are scared of the current environment that we

452
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,140
are living in,

453
00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:04,619
that was Yeah. Alright.

454
00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:07,799
That was deep. That's a lovely, lovely, lovely

455
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:08,299
thing.

456
00:18:08,724 --> 00:18:10,005
What isn't a lovely thing that you just

457
00:18:10,005 --> 00:18:11,764
mentioned is the current climate. Can you tell

458
00:18:11,764 --> 00:18:14,024
me a bit about how it feels living

459
00:18:14,085 --> 00:18:14,585
in

460
00:18:14,884 --> 00:18:17,784
where you're living now? Or I mean, we're

461
00:18:18,005 --> 00:18:18,505
probably

462
00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:22,410
20 miles outside of Chicago where we live,

463
00:18:24,250 --> 00:18:26,349
and ice has made its way

464
00:18:27,529 --> 00:18:29,789
to lots of pockets around us.

465
00:18:32,009 --> 00:18:34,830
And I would say that I know Chicago

466
00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:36,809
gets a bad rap and has a bad

467
00:18:36,809 --> 00:18:37,309
rap,

468
00:18:37,765 --> 00:18:40,505
but being this sort of war torn

469
00:18:41,045 --> 00:18:43,605
city that media is making it out to

470
00:18:43,605 --> 00:18:44,105
be,

471
00:18:44,484 --> 00:18:46,164
it's just not. It's so

472
00:18:47,684 --> 00:18:49,785
I mean, Chicago loves Chicago,

473
00:18:50,325 --> 00:18:52,164
and we are gonna take care of each

474
00:18:52,164 --> 00:18:53,065
other always.

475
00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,470
And and you can't push Chicagoans

476
00:18:56,769 --> 00:18:57,269
around.

477
00:18:57,730 --> 00:18:59,509
Like, the fact that

478
00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:00,849
they have come

479
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:03,509
that we have come together,

480
00:19:04,450 --> 00:19:04,950
and

481
00:19:06,734 --> 00:19:08,575
I don't even know how to explain it.

482
00:19:08,575 --> 00:19:09,154
I mean,

483
00:19:09,535 --> 00:19:10,174
go ahead.

484
00:19:10,575 --> 00:19:13,075
What breaks my heart is that it's

485
00:19:13,695 --> 00:19:14,575
we are all

486
00:19:17,934 --> 00:19:20,930
everything not everything was fine, but we did

487
00:19:20,930 --> 00:19:22,309
not have the government

488
00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:24,470
we did not have

489
00:19:25,170 --> 00:19:25,910
the violence

490
00:19:26,529 --> 00:19:28,069
that the government is

491
00:19:30,609 --> 00:19:32,710
Dropping in. Dropping into

492
00:19:33,329 --> 00:19:34,150
our state,

493
00:19:34,849 --> 00:19:35,829
our cities.

494
00:19:37,625 --> 00:19:39,164
Like, they are aggravating

495
00:19:39,544 --> 00:19:40,204
the people.

496
00:19:41,464 --> 00:19:43,785
We were just fine. And then they brought

497
00:19:43,785 --> 00:19:46,285
the national guard, and then they brought ICE.

498
00:19:46,664 --> 00:19:47,404
And they

499
00:19:47,785 --> 00:19:48,605
are intentionally

500
00:19:49,065 --> 00:19:52,190
creating conflict and causing harm. And it just

501
00:19:53,049 --> 00:19:55,049
it breaks my heart because what is the

502
00:19:55,049 --> 00:19:57,549
reason? Yeah. There's no reason for this.

503
00:19:58,170 --> 00:20:01,690
Yeah. I think in 2020, in 2021,

504
00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:04,315
I lost my dad. We had the peak

505
00:20:04,315 --> 00:20:06,015
civil unrest in our country,

506
00:20:06,474 --> 00:20:08,394
and I threw myself into work, and I

507
00:20:08,394 --> 00:20:09,534
threw myself into,

508
00:20:10,075 --> 00:20:12,954
like, movement building and activism. And I was

509
00:20:12,954 --> 00:20:13,454
consuming

510
00:20:13,835 --> 00:20:15,454
and consuming and consuming

511
00:20:15,755 --> 00:20:17,934
every aspect of media

512
00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:20,580
because I felt like I just needed to

513
00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:21,080
be

514
00:20:21,539 --> 00:20:23,299
in it. I needed to see what was

515
00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:24,119
going on.

516
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:25,000
And

517
00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:26,360
this time

518
00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:27,640
around,

519
00:20:28,340 --> 00:20:30,500
for my mental health because that broke me.

520
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:31,000
Like,

521
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:33,400
my body shut down.

522
00:20:35,544 --> 00:20:36,605
This time around,

523
00:20:37,384 --> 00:20:39,724
I recognized the need to have boundaries,

524
00:20:40,424 --> 00:20:42,284
like, around my

525
00:20:42,904 --> 00:20:43,724
my peace

526
00:20:44,424 --> 00:20:47,005
and focus on creating spaces

527
00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:49,565
that I had

528
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,960
the power to create. And I think that's

529
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,160
where QueerQuest comes in. And it was hard.

530
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,000
It was it has been hard this whole

531
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,500
year

532
00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:00,460
to kind of keep our eyes on QueerQuest

533
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:01,340
when

534
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,255
there's so much going on around us on

535
00:21:04,255 --> 00:21:06,174
a day to day that it feels like

536
00:21:06,174 --> 00:21:07,474
what is the point.

537
00:21:08,095 --> 00:21:10,335
So many times I was there throughout the

538
00:21:10,335 --> 00:21:12,515
process of what is the point of this

539
00:21:12,815 --> 00:21:13,794
silly event.

540
00:21:15,294 --> 00:21:17,980
And then the event happens, and you hear

541
00:21:17,980 --> 00:21:20,480
from everyone how much they needed this.

542
00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:22,940
And you're like, oh, that's why we did

543
00:21:22,940 --> 00:21:25,819
it. So you did create QueerQuest. It happened.

544
00:21:25,819 --> 00:21:28,140
There's a few things about it which I

545
00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:29,819
don't know what they mean, and perhaps Emily

546
00:21:29,819 --> 00:21:31,599
can help me with this. What what's liberation?

547
00:21:32,044 --> 00:21:32,865
That's a good

548
00:21:34,005 --> 00:21:34,505
question.

549
00:21:35,644 --> 00:21:36,144
Liberation

550
00:21:36,525 --> 00:21:37,184
for me,

551
00:21:37,884 --> 00:21:38,384
I

552
00:21:39,085 --> 00:21:39,984
think, means

553
00:21:41,724 --> 00:21:44,605
just feeling like we are free from the

554
00:21:44,605 --> 00:21:45,105
systems

555
00:21:45,779 --> 00:21:46,519
that we

556
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:49,000
are forced to exist in.

557
00:21:49,539 --> 00:21:52,039
I think it's feeling free to be creative,

558
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:54,820
to build our own systems, to live outside

559
00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:56,740
of the systems that we're forced to live

560
00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:59,320
in. It means deciding, like,

561
00:21:59,914 --> 00:22:02,654
okay. Yes. I live in The United States.

562
00:22:04,234 --> 00:22:07,034
There are systems I must, like, I keep

563
00:22:07,034 --> 00:22:08,954
saying live in, but that doesn't mean I

564
00:22:08,954 --> 00:22:11,434
can't do anything about it. That doesn't mean

565
00:22:11,434 --> 00:22:13,309
I'm powerless. That means

566
00:22:13,690 --> 00:22:16,190
I there are choices. I have agency,

567
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:17,390
and

568
00:22:18,569 --> 00:22:19,230
I can

569
00:22:19,769 --> 00:22:22,089
use my autonomy to build something new and

570
00:22:22,089 --> 00:22:22,589
different.

571
00:22:22,890 --> 00:22:25,214
Yeah. I totally agree that it it

572
00:22:25,694 --> 00:22:28,355
it comes down to autonomy and agency.

573
00:22:31,134 --> 00:22:31,634
And

574
00:22:32,654 --> 00:22:33,714
in some of these

575
00:22:34,575 --> 00:22:36,255
in the in this climate

576
00:22:36,734 --> 00:22:38,974
Mhmm. Sometimes it feels like we have no

577
00:22:38,974 --> 00:22:40,444
agency over ourselves.

578
00:22:43,829 --> 00:22:46,250
The kind of beautiful moments of of realizing

579
00:22:46,309 --> 00:22:48,789
the common language between the this kind of

580
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:51,929
healing and and quantum world. But is there

581
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:53,990
are there tensions there as well that you

582
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:55,690
have to be aware of? Yes. Probably.

583
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:56,970
But

584
00:22:58,605 --> 00:22:59,424
when you

585
00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:00,865
bring together

586
00:23:02,205 --> 00:23:03,825
black, brown, and queer folk

587
00:23:04,525 --> 00:23:05,585
who are used

588
00:23:06,605 --> 00:23:07,825
to world building

589
00:23:08,765 --> 00:23:09,505
to create

590
00:23:09,929 --> 00:23:10,429
spaces

591
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:14,269
of comfort, of safety. Mhmm.

592
00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:17,789
The creativity

593
00:23:18,250 --> 00:23:19,309
and the innovation

594
00:23:20,329 --> 00:23:21,309
and the resilience

595
00:23:21,769 --> 00:23:24,669
is baked into that community already.

596
00:23:24,970 --> 00:23:25,470
Mhmm.

597
00:23:26,465 --> 00:23:28,244
So, like, I mean, I'm a science communicator.

598
00:23:28,465 --> 00:23:28,965
Right?

599
00:23:29,345 --> 00:23:30,884
And I've had conversations

600
00:23:31,184 --> 00:23:34,065
where I'm using QueerQuest as a QueerQuest. Quantum

601
00:23:34,065 --> 00:23:36,465
mechanics as a framework for liberation or quantum

602
00:23:36,465 --> 00:23:37,525
mechanics as,

603
00:23:38,210 --> 00:23:40,069
kind of a mirror to queerness

604
00:23:40,609 --> 00:23:41,109
in

605
00:23:41,650 --> 00:23:44,450
predominantly white spaces. And there is pushback. There

606
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:44,950
is

607
00:23:45,410 --> 00:23:47,650
but hold on. Or, you know, you didn't

608
00:23:47,650 --> 00:23:49,670
accurately represent what superposition

609
00:23:50,144 --> 00:23:52,105
actually is. And there isn't a one to

610
00:23:52,105 --> 00:23:53,125
one, you know,

611
00:23:53,984 --> 00:23:55,684
mirror to, you know,

612
00:23:56,305 --> 00:23:58,785
whatever. Like, you do get that pushback. Right?

613
00:23:58,785 --> 00:24:00,724
There is this, like, pontification

614
00:24:01,345 --> 00:24:02,565
and and,

615
00:24:03,585 --> 00:24:04,085
academic,

616
00:24:05,345 --> 00:24:08,220
rigor that, like, bubbles up to the surface

617
00:24:08,599 --> 00:24:10,619
more so than when you're in

618
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:11,980
community

619
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,200
with folks that look like you. I don't

620
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,880
know how to explain it, but there is

621
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,099
just so much more

622
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,619
willingness

623
00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:20,059
to receive

624
00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:22,595
this complex,

625
00:24:23,775 --> 00:24:24,275
intricate

626
00:24:24,734 --> 00:24:25,234
entanglement

627
00:24:25,855 --> 00:24:26,355
of

628
00:24:27,134 --> 00:24:30,674
different languages and different Mhmm. Career

629
00:24:31,694 --> 00:24:34,509
and Trajectory. I really hate to state the

630
00:24:34,509 --> 00:24:37,390
obvious, but I think there is something about

631
00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:39,329
being in non white spaces

632
00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:42,670
that allows that to happen because I think

633
00:24:42,670 --> 00:24:43,170
there

634
00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:46,349
there's something true for that about mental health

635
00:24:46,349 --> 00:24:47,650
therapists as well.

636
00:24:48,845 --> 00:24:51,884
The way that we are able to talk

637
00:24:51,884 --> 00:24:54,785
and engage differently without the pontificating

638
00:24:55,644 --> 00:24:58,205
and the holding on to theory, we are

639
00:24:58,205 --> 00:24:59,105
so like,

640
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:03,039
therapists can be very

641
00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:05,940
Rigid. Rigid about us scientists.

642
00:25:06,399 --> 00:25:06,899
About.

643
00:25:07,919 --> 00:25:08,419
And

644
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,380
in

645
00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:11,139
this space,

646
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,419
it was just

647
00:25:13,694 --> 00:25:16,575
learning for learning's sake. Mhmm. Trying something new

648
00:25:16,575 --> 00:25:18,914
or thinking about something in a new way

649
00:25:19,214 --> 00:25:22,654
for fun. Just playing. Without being like, oh,

650
00:25:22,654 --> 00:25:25,794
well, you you got that theory wrong, or

651
00:25:26,019 --> 00:25:27,319
how dare you say

652
00:25:27,779 --> 00:25:30,119
mental health is x y z. Or

653
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:31,400
there's just

654
00:25:31,940 --> 00:25:32,440
without

655
00:25:32,819 --> 00:25:36,019
what feels like without the oversight of white

656
00:25:36,019 --> 00:25:36,519
folks,

657
00:25:37,779 --> 00:25:40,839
black and brown people can just create

658
00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:41,640
create.

659
00:25:42,815 --> 00:25:43,955
Speaking of liberation,

660
00:25:45,055 --> 00:25:47,375
that's is kind of what it felt like.

661
00:25:47,375 --> 00:25:50,015
Yeah. The keynote speeches that you're having, are

662
00:25:50,015 --> 00:25:50,515
they

663
00:25:51,775 --> 00:25:54,174
predominantly about the science So day one, we

664
00:25:54,174 --> 00:25:55,714
opened up with quantum mechanics

665
00:25:56,095 --> 00:25:57,154
and what it meant

666
00:25:57,490 --> 00:25:59,190
and how it maps onto

667
00:25:59,569 --> 00:26:01,349
our lives as queer folk,

668
00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:04,049
and really just kind of setting the stage

669
00:26:04,049 --> 00:26:05,809
for what was to come in the,

670
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:06,950
the event.

671
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:08,950
And then Desiree Whitmore,

672
00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:10,869
she's the director of education

673
00:26:11,375 --> 00:26:13,555
at the Exploratorium in San Francisco,

674
00:26:15,375 --> 00:26:16,275
really took

675
00:26:16,894 --> 00:26:17,875
what I said

676
00:26:18,335 --> 00:26:19,475
and made it real.

677
00:26:19,855 --> 00:26:21,715
And we had hands on activities,

678
00:26:22,815 --> 00:26:24,835
where we were seeing kind of, like, superposition

679
00:26:25,055 --> 00:26:25,795
and entanglement

680
00:26:26,095 --> 00:26:27,589
in real time.

681
00:26:28,529 --> 00:26:29,029
And

682
00:26:29,490 --> 00:26:30,309
we got feedback

683
00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:31,670
where, like,

684
00:26:32,529 --> 00:26:33,910
people were in the room

685
00:26:34,849 --> 00:26:37,329
being like, oh, I don't know what the

686
00:26:37,329 --> 00:26:38,309
hell this is.

687
00:26:38,704 --> 00:26:40,305
I I don't know if I'm in the

688
00:26:40,305 --> 00:26:42,065
right space. I don't know if I can

689
00:26:42,065 --> 00:26:44,085
understand quantum. Right?

690
00:26:45,025 --> 00:26:48,224
And Desiree, like, solidified that for them. And

691
00:26:48,224 --> 00:26:51,045
throughout the rest of the the events,

692
00:26:51,569 --> 00:26:51,809
they

693
00:26:52,609 --> 00:26:55,829
it clicked. They got why therapists and scientists

694
00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:57,730
were hanging out together. Mhmm.

695
00:26:58,529 --> 00:27:01,329
And then for day two, we moved into

696
00:27:01,329 --> 00:27:03,190
kind of theory to practice,

697
00:27:03,569 --> 00:27:06,424
really. And we had doctor Raquel Martin, who

698
00:27:06,424 --> 00:27:06,924
is,

699
00:27:08,345 --> 00:27:08,845
a

700
00:27:09,305 --> 00:27:09,805
educator,

701
00:27:10,585 --> 00:27:11,085
psychologist,

702
00:27:12,105 --> 00:27:12,605
scientist.

703
00:27:13,065 --> 00:27:14,205
She's in the social

704
00:27:14,745 --> 00:27:17,325
media streets as she likes to say.

705
00:27:18,309 --> 00:27:20,309
And she's the well known kind of,

706
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:22,009
voice for,

707
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:24,570
she calls it mental

708
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:26,890
wealth. Not health, wealth,

709
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:31,049
and specifically for for black women's mental wealth.

710
00:27:31,994 --> 00:27:33,994
And, again, she just took some of the

711
00:27:33,994 --> 00:27:36,174
concepts that we talked about on day one

712
00:27:36,714 --> 00:27:39,595
and showed how they can be leveraged and

713
00:27:39,595 --> 00:27:42,575
used, when we're talking about our mental health.

714
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:45,690
I think I'm just thinking because

715
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:48,649
from a science communication point of view,

716
00:27:49,349 --> 00:27:51,669
quite apart from anything else, for just from

717
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:53,769
the science communication point of view, having

718
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:54,809
the space

719
00:27:55,109 --> 00:27:58,404
after you've had talks about and demonstrations of

720
00:27:58,404 --> 00:28:00,424
quantum mechanics, having the space to just

721
00:28:00,724 --> 00:28:03,164
think be, it's just a a really beautiful

722
00:28:03,365 --> 00:28:05,384
I'm just remembering when we spoke,

723
00:28:05,924 --> 00:28:07,845
several years ago, Jessica, when you you were

724
00:28:07,845 --> 00:28:09,605
talking to me about quantum foam and all

725
00:28:09,605 --> 00:28:11,190
these kind of things, I was like, wow.

726
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:12,809
This is amazing.

727
00:28:13,589 --> 00:28:16,549
And what I could have done immediately after

728
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:17,289
that conversation

729
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:19,509
was, you know, go back to the day

730
00:28:19,509 --> 00:28:21,669
job and do some research into something else,

731
00:28:21,669 --> 00:28:23,190
but I didn't. I went for a walk,

732
00:28:23,509 --> 00:28:25,049
you know, amongst nature.

733
00:28:25,509 --> 00:28:26,234
And it just

734
00:28:27,035 --> 00:28:28,015
it it the

735
00:28:29,355 --> 00:28:30,494
the the concepts

736
00:28:30,954 --> 00:28:31,454
and,

737
00:28:32,154 --> 00:28:35,454
well, the experiments that are in, quantum mechanics

738
00:28:35,595 --> 00:28:36,095
are

739
00:28:37,035 --> 00:28:38,795
they deserve that time. So I think it's

740
00:28:38,795 --> 00:28:40,474
brilliant. Just from a science communication point of

741
00:28:40,474 --> 00:28:40,859
view,

742
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:43,740
that that's how you designed it. Were you

743
00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:45,099
thinking about that as well from a science

744
00:28:45,099 --> 00:28:46,700
communication point of view when you were putting

745
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:47,359
it together?

746
00:28:48,380 --> 00:28:50,480
I I think so. It's such a difficult

747
00:28:50,539 --> 00:28:52,240
concept even for me

748
00:28:52,779 --> 00:28:54,859
as a scientist who spends all my time

749
00:28:54,859 --> 00:28:58,144
in the quantum realm to, like, grasp. Right?

750
00:28:58,524 --> 00:29:00,944
And I think having space where

751
00:29:01,565 --> 00:29:04,125
you can, like, Rubik's cube it, right, and

752
00:29:04,125 --> 00:29:06,365
look at these concepts in such a different

753
00:29:06,365 --> 00:29:09,085
way and situate them in your day to

754
00:29:09,085 --> 00:29:09,904
day lives

755
00:29:10,204 --> 00:29:11,819
Mhmm. Makes it so that

756
00:29:12,779 --> 00:29:13,279
you

757
00:29:13,819 --> 00:29:17,200
under like, you you grasp it better. And

758
00:29:17,259 --> 00:29:18,000
to me,

759
00:29:19,419 --> 00:29:20,079
the, like,

760
00:29:21,019 --> 00:29:23,659
we did the damn thing for me was

761
00:29:23,659 --> 00:29:24,319
our videographer.

762
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:28,065
On the last day, on the last interview

763
00:29:28,065 --> 00:29:31,045
that we had with him was saying, okay.

764
00:29:31,424 --> 00:29:34,804
Now tell me about the quantum mechanics and

765
00:29:34,865 --> 00:29:35,365
nonbinariness

766
00:29:36,065 --> 00:29:38,304
and and the superposition of states and how

767
00:29:38,304 --> 00:29:40,625
that wraps into what you created here at

768
00:29:40,625 --> 00:29:41,125
QueerQuest.

769
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:42,980
He was mirroring

770
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:44,740
back to us

771
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:46,259
the quantum mechanical

772
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:48,420
aspects of the of

773
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:49,539
the conference

774
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,920
that we had been talking about for two

775
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,400
days. Yeah. You could really tell he had

776
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,640
been listening. We did an interview on day

777
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,494
one and day two.

778
00:29:58,214 --> 00:29:59,734
And at the end of day two, when

779
00:29:59,734 --> 00:30:01,494
the whole thing was over, you could just

780
00:30:01,494 --> 00:30:03,815
tell by the questions he was prompting us

781
00:30:03,815 --> 00:30:05,994
with Mhmm. That he had been listening

782
00:30:07,174 --> 00:30:10,394
to everything that had been happening, and that,

783
00:30:10,694 --> 00:30:12,900
like, that's it for us. Yeah. We want

784
00:30:13,059 --> 00:30:15,539
we want science and mental health to be

785
00:30:15,539 --> 00:30:16,039
accessible

786
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,640
and a tool people can use and

787
00:30:20,339 --> 00:30:22,740
have fun with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we

788
00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:24,900
were also really intentional with all of our,

789
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:26,200
like, parallel sessions,

790
00:30:27,194 --> 00:30:28,174
and our panels.

791
00:30:28,474 --> 00:30:29,615
There was a scientist

792
00:30:30,315 --> 00:30:32,015
and a mental health expert

793
00:30:32,394 --> 00:30:33,134
on each

794
00:30:33,595 --> 00:30:34,095
parallel,

795
00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:36,015
session. And,

796
00:30:37,355 --> 00:30:39,054
oh, man, the conversations

797
00:30:39,755 --> 00:30:40,734
that were happening

798
00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:41,960
were

799
00:30:42,339 --> 00:30:44,740
wild. Mhmm. So I'm just remembering one at

800
00:30:44,740 --> 00:30:45,400
the decolonizing

801
00:30:45,779 --> 00:30:47,480
therapy and science session.

802
00:30:48,019 --> 00:30:49,720
And our our therapist

803
00:30:50,659 --> 00:30:51,880
was talking about

804
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:53,000
anxiety,

805
00:30:53,394 --> 00:30:56,595
I think. Right? Mhmm. And and and how

806
00:30:56,595 --> 00:30:57,575
difficult it is

807
00:30:57,954 --> 00:31:00,775
to meditate and to regulate

808
00:31:01,234 --> 00:31:05,075
the, like, anxious thoughts in your brain. Mhmm.

809
00:31:05,075 --> 00:31:06,855
And she stated something like,

810
00:31:08,029 --> 00:31:10,369
it starts with being able to observe

811
00:31:11,869 --> 00:31:14,210
the thoughts that are happening in your brain.

812
00:31:14,429 --> 00:31:16,929
And once you're able to observe them,

813
00:31:17,390 --> 00:31:19,730
you can essentially quiet them.

814
00:31:20,785 --> 00:31:23,765
And our scientist was like, holy shit.

815
00:31:24,065 --> 00:31:26,964
You just described the observer effect.

816
00:31:27,265 --> 00:31:28,244
You collapsed

817
00:31:29,025 --> 00:31:30,484
superposition of states

818
00:31:30,865 --> 00:31:31,924
in your brain

819
00:31:32,305 --> 00:31:35,679
by observe I know. I'm getting chills. Blow

820
00:31:35,819 --> 00:31:36,480
my mind.

821
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:39,740
So those are the types of conversations that

822
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:40,400
were happening

823
00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:41,679
all throughout

824
00:31:42,059 --> 00:31:44,700
the the event. Mhmm. And it was just

825
00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:47,179
like and and you should have seen how

826
00:31:47,179 --> 00:31:48,015
geeked out

827
00:31:48,734 --> 00:31:51,075
our panelists were. They were like

828
00:31:51,615 --> 00:31:53,615
and then after the session, they talked for

829
00:31:53,615 --> 00:31:56,115
over an hour just, I think, swapping

830
00:31:56,494 --> 00:31:56,994
languages,

831
00:31:57,535 --> 00:31:58,755
right, and

832
00:31:59,055 --> 00:32:01,869
building that shared language of let me, you

833
00:32:01,869 --> 00:32:04,509
just explained this, and holy crap. This is

834
00:32:04,509 --> 00:32:07,150
what you just explained. Mhmm. That and so

835
00:32:07,150 --> 00:32:08,990
much of the time and and at the

836
00:32:08,990 --> 00:32:11,470
beginning of the conference, the therapists were kind

837
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:12,529
of like, oh, we're

838
00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:15,650
just therapists. This is all we do.

839
00:32:16,664 --> 00:32:19,544
Like, put next to a scientist. We we

840
00:32:19,544 --> 00:32:22,184
just do this. Mhmm. But by the end

841
00:32:22,184 --> 00:32:23,944
of it, it was so cool to see,

842
00:32:23,944 --> 00:32:25,164
like, oh,

843
00:32:26,265 --> 00:32:29,325
science actually isn't that hard. No. Yeah.

844
00:32:29,625 --> 00:32:30,605
Like, the concepts

845
00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:34,049
seem difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And there's and we

846
00:32:34,049 --> 00:32:35,590
all know that there's a hierarchy,

847
00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:39,890
right, of of science, right, and behavior science,

848
00:32:39,890 --> 00:32:40,950
especially in

849
00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:42,309
in western

850
00:32:43,805 --> 00:32:44,305
realms,

851
00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:47,184
it is deemed lesser than

852
00:32:47,484 --> 00:32:50,144
more objective or, quote, unquote, hard sciences.

853
00:32:50,684 --> 00:32:51,184
But

854
00:32:51,484 --> 00:32:52,224
the same

855
00:32:52,765 --> 00:32:54,625
concepts, the same tools,

856
00:32:56,045 --> 00:32:58,305
of, like, cracking open things

857
00:32:58,740 --> 00:32:59,559
and understanding

858
00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:00,680
complex,

859
00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:04,440
beings, whether that be particles

860
00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:05,640
or people.

861
00:33:06,259 --> 00:33:08,019
They're the same tools that are that are

862
00:33:08,019 --> 00:33:10,359
being leveraged and they're that are being developed

863
00:33:10,579 --> 00:33:11,295
in these

864
00:33:11,775 --> 00:33:14,815
careers Mhmm. In these professions. Who are the

865
00:33:14,815 --> 00:33:17,394
people who are walking the floors at QueerQuest?

866
00:33:17,455 --> 00:33:19,134
Who are they? Where where where do they

867
00:33:19,134 --> 00:33:21,555
come from? Are they all from Chicago? The

868
00:33:21,695 --> 00:33:24,734
furthest place we had someone come from was

869
00:33:24,734 --> 00:33:25,234
California,

870
00:33:25,809 --> 00:33:26,710
which is the

871
00:33:27,170 --> 00:33:28,789
opposite coast Yeah.

872
00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:31,650
From where we live. And then we had

873
00:33:31,650 --> 00:33:33,750
people from Michigan, from Tennessee,

874
00:33:35,170 --> 00:33:37,490
but it was largely Chicago. But we were

875
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:39,330
so stoked that we even had out of

876
00:33:39,330 --> 00:33:40,549
town visitors. Mhmm.

877
00:33:41,575 --> 00:33:44,055
That was pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

878
00:33:44,055 --> 00:33:46,375
we built it with Chicago for Chicago. That

879
00:33:46,375 --> 00:33:48,775
was first and foremost. And when I say

880
00:33:48,775 --> 00:33:50,235
we built it with Chicago,

881
00:33:50,695 --> 00:33:52,075
it was small businesses.

882
00:33:52,615 --> 00:33:53,595
It was nonprofits.

883
00:33:54,455 --> 00:33:56,555
It was, you know, black and brown,

884
00:33:57,369 --> 00:33:57,869
queer,

885
00:33:59,049 --> 00:33:59,549
people

886
00:34:00,009 --> 00:34:02,569
that said we need this space. What do

887
00:34:02,569 --> 00:34:04,490
you need from us? Mhmm. And we could

888
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:06,750
not have built it without them. Because

889
00:34:07,130 --> 00:34:10,109
here in The States, probably similar over there,

890
00:34:10,364 --> 00:34:13,005
anything DEI related, nobody wants to touch with

891
00:34:13,005 --> 00:34:14,784
a 10 foot pole. So

892
00:34:15,244 --> 00:34:18,204
we had, you know, plans of of of

893
00:34:18,204 --> 00:34:18,704
having

894
00:34:19,565 --> 00:34:20,065
sponsorships,

895
00:34:20,525 --> 00:34:21,585
having corporations,

896
00:34:22,045 --> 00:34:24,144
like, help fund this with us,

897
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,539
But no one took our call from major

898
00:34:27,539 --> 00:34:30,039
corporations, and it was really small businesses

899
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:33,239
and black, brown, queer owned community

900
00:34:33,539 --> 00:34:35,859
organizations who said, hell, yeah. Like, we don't

901
00:34:35,859 --> 00:34:38,025
have money, but we have people power. Yeah.

902
00:34:38,105 --> 00:34:40,344
We didn't have a production company. It was

903
00:34:40,344 --> 00:34:43,464
largely us and volunteers that built it. And

904
00:34:43,464 --> 00:34:45,565
when you see what it looks like, that

905
00:34:45,784 --> 00:34:47,625
in and of itself is gonna blow you

906
00:34:47,625 --> 00:34:48,125
away.

907
00:34:49,545 --> 00:34:50,924
We'll send the video. Yeah.

908
00:34:51,545 --> 00:34:55,309
Like, this was community built through and through,

909
00:34:55,309 --> 00:34:56,690
and I think it's a testament

910
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:57,730
to

911
00:34:58,030 --> 00:35:00,450
us. Chicago Yeah. Not being a war zone.

912
00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:02,369
Exactly. And just showing, like,

913
00:35:02,829 --> 00:35:03,489
you can

914
00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:05,969
you can try to keep us down,

915
00:35:06,349 --> 00:35:09,085
but we are so much powerful when we

916
00:35:09,085 --> 00:35:10,464
come together. Yeah.

917
00:35:11,644 --> 00:35:13,804
The other side of it now, maybe it's

918
00:35:13,804 --> 00:35:15,644
the same advice you would have given before,

919
00:35:15,644 --> 00:35:17,904
but what what advice would you give to,

920
00:35:18,125 --> 00:35:20,304
you know, queer people who are in academia

921
00:35:20,684 --> 00:35:21,344
or stamina

922
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,059
and are feeling isolated?

923
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,539
I would start off with saying

924
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,099
the feelings that you're feeling

925
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,300
are valid.

926
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:31,780
And

927
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:33,700
I know that it feels

928
00:35:35,525 --> 00:35:36,025
isolating

929
00:35:36,324 --> 00:35:38,904
and that you're the only one going through

930
00:35:39,125 --> 00:35:39,625
that

931
00:35:40,484 --> 00:35:40,984
journey.

932
00:35:42,005 --> 00:35:42,824
But finding

933
00:35:43,684 --> 00:35:44,184
language

934
00:35:44,885 --> 00:35:45,784
to identify,

935
00:35:46,164 --> 00:35:47,224
like, the microaggressions

936
00:35:47,684 --> 00:35:49,950
and the traumas that you're going through

937
00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:51,150
is very,

938
00:35:53,050 --> 00:35:53,550
powerful.

939
00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:56,510
And then being able to share that language

940
00:35:56,570 --> 00:35:57,309
with others

941
00:35:57,849 --> 00:35:59,869
and seeing that there's shared experiences

942
00:36:00,890 --> 00:36:01,390
across

943
00:36:02,714 --> 00:36:05,835
your field and across other fields, that is

944
00:36:05,835 --> 00:36:08,074
also, like, really powerful. And I think that

945
00:36:08,074 --> 00:36:08,974
for like,

946
00:36:10,474 --> 00:36:13,275
the system is working as designed. Mhmm. It's

947
00:36:13,275 --> 00:36:15,500
trying to keep us apart. It's trying to

948
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:17,739
make us feel like we're crazy. It's trying

949
00:36:17,739 --> 00:36:19,199
to make us feel alone.

950
00:36:19,579 --> 00:36:22,159
That is the way it was designed.

951
00:36:22,699 --> 00:36:24,719
So anything that we can do

952
00:36:25,099 --> 00:36:25,920
to counteract

953
00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:27,839
the feelings of isolation,

954
00:36:28,525 --> 00:36:30,465
the feelings of feeling crazy,

955
00:36:30,844 --> 00:36:32,545
the feelings of not belonging.

956
00:36:33,244 --> 00:36:35,824
That's how we break the system. Mhmm. So

957
00:36:35,965 --> 00:36:38,625
community is, like, one of the biggest ones,

958
00:36:38,684 --> 00:36:39,184
and

959
00:36:39,565 --> 00:36:40,065
developing

960
00:36:40,764 --> 00:36:41,264
language

961
00:36:42,284 --> 00:36:43,344
to, like,

962
00:36:44,289 --> 00:36:47,510
validate those experiences is really important.

963
00:36:48,690 --> 00:36:50,230
Yeah. And I would say

964
00:36:50,929 --> 00:36:53,489
just to remember that it's them, not you.

965
00:36:53,489 --> 00:36:53,989
Classic

966
00:36:54,929 --> 00:36:58,230
classic breakup advice. It's them, not you.

967
00:36:58,609 --> 00:37:00,105
It is the system.

968
00:37:01,605 --> 00:37:02,105
And

969
00:37:02,405 --> 00:37:04,485
I would also add on as a mental

970
00:37:04,485 --> 00:37:06,905
health therapist that no degree,

971
00:37:07,525 --> 00:37:09,305
no job is worth

972
00:37:10,405 --> 00:37:11,305
your well-being.

973
00:37:11,844 --> 00:37:13,765
That's a hard one even for me. That

974
00:37:13,765 --> 00:37:15,339
is a hard one for Jess. She She

975
00:37:15,339 --> 00:37:17,099
didn't listen to it in grad school, and

976
00:37:17,099 --> 00:37:17,920
that's fine.

977
00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:20,059
But she found out the hard way on

978
00:37:20,059 --> 00:37:22,539
the other side when it took a toll

979
00:37:22,539 --> 00:37:23,359
on her body.

980
00:37:24,699 --> 00:37:27,585
And I I believe that. I believe that

981
00:37:28,065 --> 00:37:29,045
nothing is worth

982
00:37:29,425 --> 00:37:31,445
nothing is more important than your well-being,

983
00:37:32,144 --> 00:37:33,605
the job, the degree.

984
00:37:34,144 --> 00:37:36,244
So if it's not serving you,

985
00:37:36,784 --> 00:37:38,324
you're not a tree. Move.

986
00:37:38,625 --> 00:37:39,125
Oh,

987
00:37:41,579 --> 00:37:42,880
you're not stuck anywhere.

988
00:37:44,139 --> 00:37:45,519
The system is designed

989
00:37:47,099 --> 00:37:49,039
to make you feel isolated.

990
00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:51,119
Talk to me about that.

991
00:37:51,579 --> 00:37:53,440
How is it designed in that way?

992
00:37:54,299 --> 00:37:55,039
The system,

993
00:37:55,704 --> 00:37:56,204
all

994
00:37:56,744 --> 00:37:58,204
systems, were designed

995
00:37:58,824 --> 00:37:59,885
by white men,

996
00:38:01,144 --> 00:38:02,125
colonial systems.

997
00:38:04,105 --> 00:38:04,605
And

998
00:38:05,224 --> 00:38:07,484
I don't believe that colonial systems

999
00:38:07,864 --> 00:38:08,364
want

1000
00:38:08,829 --> 00:38:11,150
black and brown queer folks, anything that is

1001
00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:11,650
different,

1002
00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:14,750
working in those systems. Because as we saw

1003
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:17,469
with Pure Quest, when we have these folks

1004
00:38:17,469 --> 00:38:20,269
come together, oh, we get new ideas. Oh,

1005
00:38:20,269 --> 00:38:21,250
we get innovation.

1006
00:38:22,175 --> 00:38:24,414
Oh, we're gonna be like, you're not gonna

1007
00:38:24,414 --> 00:38:25,954
push us around. Mhmm.

1008
00:38:26,414 --> 00:38:28,755
There is so much power

1009
00:38:29,054 --> 00:38:31,954
in community. But if you keep us siloed,

1010
00:38:32,734 --> 00:38:34,594
the system wants us siloed.

1011
00:38:34,989 --> 00:38:37,570
Because when we come together, when we realize

1012
00:38:37,710 --> 00:38:40,190
that we are not each other's enemies, that

1013
00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:41,010
we're actually

1014
00:38:41,950 --> 00:38:42,450
our

1015
00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:45,250
sisters, brothers, people's keepers,

1016
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:47,250
then we link arms,

1017
00:38:47,885 --> 00:38:50,204
and and then they're scared and then they're

1018
00:38:50,204 --> 00:38:50,704
scared.

1019
00:38:51,085 --> 00:38:53,105
Right? Because now we're together.

1020
00:38:53,405 --> 00:38:55,744
Mhmm. But so long as we're siloed,

1021
00:38:56,925 --> 00:38:58,385
we stay feeling crazy,

1022
00:38:58,925 --> 00:39:01,619
and we stay feeling like we are not

1023
00:39:01,619 --> 00:39:04,900
welcome. Yeah. Like, it's our problem. Like, we're

1024
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:08,179
the problem. That's that's it. Right? Like, once

1025
00:39:08,179 --> 00:39:09,799
you start having the conversation

1026
00:39:10,339 --> 00:39:12,819
with somebody that looks like you, that's going

1027
00:39:12,819 --> 00:39:15,284
through the same journey, and you start seeing

1028
00:39:15,284 --> 00:39:16,264
these, like,

1029
00:39:16,804 --> 00:39:19,125
the the same things that you went through,

1030
00:39:19,125 --> 00:39:20,344
they went through too.

1031
00:39:20,644 --> 00:39:22,184
Now it's like, okay. Well,

1032
00:39:22,644 --> 00:39:23,945
it wasn't my fault.

1033
00:39:24,324 --> 00:39:27,684
Like, this person across the country in a

1034
00:39:27,684 --> 00:39:28,984
different physics department

1035
00:39:29,460 --> 00:39:31,079
dealt with the same

1036
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:33,559
issues, the same barriers,

1037
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:35,000
the same,

1038
00:39:37,619 --> 00:39:38,119
traumas

1039
00:39:38,579 --> 00:39:39,639
that I did.

1040
00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:41,940
Now now it's not a it's not a

1041
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:42,440
coincidence.

1042
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:45,914
Sorry. It's a trend. Mhmm. It's not a

1043
00:39:45,914 --> 00:39:48,175
me problem. It's a you problem. Yeah.

1044
00:39:50,074 --> 00:39:50,974
Yeah. And

1045
00:39:51,355 --> 00:39:54,335
so long as the system keeps us focused

1046
00:39:55,035 --> 00:39:57,994
and siloed on believing it is our problem,

1047
00:39:57,994 --> 00:39:59,454
everything is our fault,

1048
00:39:59,789 --> 00:40:01,809
Guess what? We don't succeed because

1049
00:40:02,429 --> 00:40:04,829
all we're doing in our spare time is

1050
00:40:04,829 --> 00:40:07,969
spending so much time and energy and resources

1051
00:40:08,190 --> 00:40:09,410
and mental capacity

1052
00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:12,190
figuring out why the teacher looked at me

1053
00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:14,835
like like that. Why did the teacher ask

1054
00:40:14,994 --> 00:40:17,315
only me why I haven't been in class

1055
00:40:17,315 --> 00:40:17,974
for weeks

1056
00:40:18,275 --> 00:40:20,195
when maybe I have been in class every

1057
00:40:20,195 --> 00:40:22,074
single week, but they didn't see me Mhmm.

1058
00:40:22,275 --> 00:40:25,014
Because I didn't raise my hand? Or, like,

1059
00:40:25,554 --> 00:40:28,375
the system keeps us in our head believing

1060
00:40:28,434 --> 00:40:29,974
we have done something wrong.

1061
00:40:30,570 --> 00:40:31,070
Yeah.

1062
00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:34,030
And when you're spending all that mental capacity

1063
00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:34,989
on anxious

1064
00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:37,630
thoughts about

1065
00:40:38,010 --> 00:40:40,010
why shouldn't be here. What did I do?

1066
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:41,710
What did I was I too aggressive?

1067
00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:43,869
You don't have enough space

1068
00:40:44,675 --> 00:40:45,335
to innovate,

1069
00:40:45,795 --> 00:40:46,775
to be creative,

1070
00:40:47,155 --> 00:40:49,875
to see the world in Rubik's cube quantum

1071
00:40:49,875 --> 00:40:51,094
mechanics. Like

1072
00:40:51,394 --> 00:40:52,215
and and

1073
00:40:54,275 --> 00:40:55,494
and I say that

1074
00:40:55,954 --> 00:40:56,855
knowing that

1075
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,960
we, as black and brown people, are still

1076
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,279
so

1077
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,059
I almost cussed.

1078
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:05,859
Freaking

1079
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,179
resilient in these spaces.

1080
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:09,619
We are still

1081
00:41:11,234 --> 00:41:11,734
innovating

1082
00:41:12,194 --> 00:41:15,875
and driving change and creating new systems and

1083
00:41:15,875 --> 00:41:17,174
and ways of being.

1084
00:41:17,554 --> 00:41:18,454
Just imagine

1085
00:41:19,554 --> 00:41:21,734
if we didn't have to deal with

1086
00:41:22,194 --> 00:41:22,980
this white

1087
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:23,880
capitalist

1088
00:41:24,260 --> 00:41:24,760
system

1089
00:41:25,380 --> 00:41:26,760
overbearing on us.

1090
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:27,800
Right?

1091
00:41:28,099 --> 00:41:29,159
Like, woah.

1092
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,440
Yep.

1093
00:41:31,539 --> 00:41:33,059
Yeah. I I see I'm I'm

1094
00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:35,859
it's tempting to think it would be really

1095
00:41:35,859 --> 00:41:37,300
nice if there was a world where you

1096
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:39,155
didn't have to have QueerQuest.

1097
00:41:39,454 --> 00:41:41,054
But that would be a real shame because

1098
00:41:41,054 --> 00:41:42,835
you wouldn't have all of this collaboration.

1099
00:41:44,494 --> 00:41:46,494
I don't believe that. I just think it

1100
00:41:46,494 --> 00:41:49,054
would be different. Like, the need would be

1101
00:41:49,054 --> 00:41:51,554
different. Yeah. It wouldn't be to escape.

1102
00:41:52,690 --> 00:41:54,309
It wouldn't it would be to come together.

1103
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:55,510
That's

1104
00:41:55,809 --> 00:41:58,210
true. Was, but the the framing, the jumping

1105
00:41:58,210 --> 00:42:00,390
off point would be different. Yeah. Yeah.

1106
00:42:01,650 --> 00:42:02,150
Brilliant.

1107
00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:04,784
What what's next for Queer Quest? Does it

1108
00:42:04,784 --> 00:42:06,405
come back? Are you doing it again?

1109
00:42:08,385 --> 00:42:10,405
Em's not ready. I'm not ready.

1110
00:42:11,824 --> 00:42:12,885
It's coming back.

1111
00:42:14,864 --> 00:42:17,684
There will be a Queer Quest to the

1112
00:42:17,930 --> 00:42:19,789
year two. The timing

1113
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:20,590
is

1114
00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:23,690
we will have to discuss that. People also

1115
00:42:23,690 --> 00:42:25,849
asked us at the event, will we be

1116
00:42:25,849 --> 00:42:27,390
taking the show on the road?

1117
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:31,755
And that's probably not gonna happen

1118
00:42:32,215 --> 00:42:34,614
quite yet. Yeah. We gotta do it do

1119
00:42:34,614 --> 00:42:37,735
it in Chicago. Do it with Chicago, our

1120
00:42:37,735 --> 00:42:38,235
city.

1121
00:42:38,855 --> 00:42:41,094
Make sure we we got it all all

1122
00:42:41,094 --> 00:42:43,735
the kinks ironed out, and then maybe This

1123
00:42:43,735 --> 00:42:46,289
is where we wanna build our community. Yeah.

1124
00:42:46,289 --> 00:42:48,150
Then it can go forth from there.

1125
00:42:48,450 --> 00:42:48,950
But

1126
00:42:49,329 --> 00:42:51,250
Chicago showed up for us, and we're gonna

1127
00:42:51,250 --> 00:42:53,769
show up for Chicago next next year Mhmm.

1128
00:42:53,890 --> 00:42:54,789
The year after.

1129
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:57,650
But if if people were sort of thinking,

1130
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:59,090
oh, we we if we had that in

1131
00:42:59,090 --> 00:43:01,105
our town, would would you be happy talk

1132
00:43:01,105 --> 00:43:02,224
to people if they wanted to get in

1133
00:43:02,224 --> 00:43:03,505
touch with you and and talk to them

1134
00:43:03,505 --> 00:43:04,005
about

1135
00:43:04,945 --> 00:43:05,684
it? Absolutely.

1136
00:43:06,305 --> 00:43:08,785
Yeah. Because these spaces are needed. And one

1137
00:43:08,785 --> 00:43:11,045
of the things that we learned at QueerQuest

1138
00:43:11,265 --> 00:43:11,765
is

1139
00:43:12,224 --> 00:43:14,840
every single person has the power to build

1140
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,679
a community. Mhmm. It doesn't have to be

1141
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:19,420
on the scale of QueerQuest because I'm

1142
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:20,380
crazy.

1143
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,599
And my vision like, I'm a crazy visionary.

1144
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,239
Visionary. I I I have a specific way

1145
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,699
of things that I want

1146
00:43:29,324 --> 00:43:31,744
to create and anyways, it doesn't matter.

1147
00:43:33,484 --> 00:43:36,284
But a group chat. I mean, we have

1148
00:43:36,284 --> 00:43:39,164
a group chat, and it's soul filling. Just

1149
00:43:39,164 --> 00:43:41,324
being able to have that space where we

1150
00:43:41,324 --> 00:43:41,824
can

1151
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:45,909
build community is It really just takes the

1152
00:43:45,909 --> 00:43:48,230
intention, the desire to do it, and then

1153
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:48,809
the intention

1154
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:51,349
to to bring it to life. Yep. Yep.

1155
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:53,130
We're happy to have that conversation.

1156
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:55,049
A 100%. Yeah.

1157
00:43:55,394 --> 00:43:56,675
If you would like to get in touch

1158
00:43:56,675 --> 00:43:58,675
with Jessica and Emily about that and maybe

1159
00:43:58,675 --> 00:44:00,675
see if they can help you arrange a

1160
00:44:00,675 --> 00:44:02,755
similar sort of event where you are, then

1161
00:44:02,755 --> 00:44:04,355
you can get in touch with them via

1162
00:44:04,355 --> 00:44:06,914
the iNova website or indeed the Quick West

1163
00:44:06,914 --> 00:44:08,690
website. I'd like to thank them both for

1164
00:44:08,690 --> 00:44:10,609
joining me for this episode of the Physics

1165
00:44:10,609 --> 00:44:12,690
World Stories podcast. If you'd like to hear

1166
00:44:12,690 --> 00:44:14,369
more from Jessica, and I don't know why

1167
00:44:14,369 --> 00:44:16,769
you wouldn't, then I would recommend going back

1168
00:44:16,769 --> 00:44:19,089
to the previous conversation we had on this

1169
00:44:19,089 --> 00:44:19,589
podcast

1170
00:44:19,969 --> 00:44:22,449
all about the muon mania. I'll post a

1171
00:44:22,449 --> 00:44:24,795
link to that, of course, on the Physics

1172
00:44:24,795 --> 00:44:28,414
World website alongside the article with this episode.

1173
00:44:28,875 --> 00:44:31,114
And if this has whetted your appetite for

1174
00:44:31,114 --> 00:44:33,835
even more quantum science and technology, this is,

1175
00:44:33,835 --> 00:44:36,480
of course, the international year of just that.

1176
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,420
And at Physics World, we have a smorgasbord

1177
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,219
of coverage spanning the history, mystery,

1178
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:44,320
and industry of quantum mechanics. We'll be back

1179
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,320
next month with something else from this wonderful

1180
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,719
world of physics, and thank you very much

1181
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:49,460
for listening.