#202 - Sharna Burgess on Finding Out She Wasn’t Returning to DWTS + Brent Michaels on What A Radio Programmer Does + Women in Country Music

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Speaker 1: This will be a split episode. We will talk to Sharna Burgess and we'll talk about a lot of things. We'll talk about Dancing with the Stars this season, we'll talk about her finding out she wasn't gonna be on the show this season. Um. Yeah, we'll just kind of jump into that with her, which I wanted a way to beat. I could have called her immediate limb and like talk about it, but I just felt like as a friend, I would rather not chase the clicks and also has a little shock by it. But I have a theory too that one of the reasons why she didn't get an asked back. So we'll get to her and just a bit. And also we'll talk to our friend is a program director in California, and so um, people often wonder what in the world does a radio programmer do, and how come they're getting to pick music and women in country music and what's happen so him in studio, we'll talk to our buddy Brent, who is from Bakersfield, California, runs a couple of stations out there, And so if you've ever wonder what radio program director does, that's that's what this will be. So UM, I think I was trying to think about what this podcast is about. Like if we were just taking a tag it with a line, I think it would be talking to creatives and about music. That's basically what we do. We talk to creative people and then we also talk about music. Because I was I was talking to Amy has a great podcast called four Things with Amy Brown, and I said, hey, nobody knows what your four things are, so what are they put them on the front of your your image? And she didn't looks great because if somebody just scrolls through, they don't know, like what in the heck is four things and our pictures on there now, which we need to put my face on the on the logo too, because otherwise it's just a couple of words. It doesn't really nobody goes, oh, I not not that it's even about me, but it just gives you something to remember and hold on too, because I scoled through podcast on I Heart Radio and say, oh, let me see what this is about. And if it's just a word like it it's like a cartoon graphic that's cool, or like somebody I'll be like, oh, well that's cool, or like sometimes people just dress like what their show is about. So I was talking to Amy check that out Four Things with Amy Brown. I'm gonna go ahead and get off of here because I'm about to go see Lauren Lena and shoot some Dancing with the Star and stuff. But Sharna Burgess and then our friend Brent, who works in Baker's field, programs to radio stations, and we'll kind of catch us up on what a program director does. How are you doing good? Are you in the bathroom or what? No, I hang on, I can take your speaker. Yeah, it's a little better. Okay, what's happening? What are you doing? Not much? I am just currently buried in acting homework. Wait what are you doing there? I've got a c It's a ten minute play. It's called Traces of Memory, um, and I'm one of the characters in it. And she is very dark. It's about these two women that meet on a highway. They're both runaways basically, and she revealed throughout it that she blew up her house and tied up her three kids to watch the microwave the gasoline and it blew up. It's a family moving the family play. Bring everyone, Bring all the kids. Yeah. I think it's really made for kids. That's my opinion. You know. Well listen, well, you and I have talked a bit since the I mean a couple of times actually, since you didn't get brought back to Dancing with the Stars. And I definitely didn't want to hit you up right after it because for me, I was like what I know for you and you were like what And I wanted to give you a little a little breath on it. But then I saw you on Instagram actually at the show the other night, I was and I was like, and I think that's where it's It's such a healthy and now it's such a healthy thing I think for for you to be able to talk about because you're just going now to see your friends. So there is no bad blood I guess between you and the show. No, there isn't. There's definitely no bad blood on my side. I you know, someone made a decision that they didn't want me to be a part of this season, and that's okay. You know, I've had an incredible eight and a half nearly nine years with the show, and they're they're trying to do things, and they're really trying to revamp it and get it back so it can last another ten years and I'm on board with that goal. So for me, there is much of that was very sad to not be there because I love my job. Um, I you know, I don't take it personally, and of course I'll go and watch because these guys that are there, the cast and even the crew, everybody is like family to me after the last eight years, So going back there is still like going home. Um, and I really love going there to watch. I've been there for week one and week three. Yeah that's cool because I say you a note and I was like, hey, are you working and you were like, no, I'm just watching, and I was like, oh, that's so cool that you're just there, because I know it was. It was uncomfortable for me that you didn't get brought back. So I know initially the shock for you had to be like what the like because I think we all expected you to come back because you didn't know you weren't coming back. Oh yeah, I had no I had no idea, but I didn't even have a hint. Not I don't mean from them, but in myself there was never a doubt in my mind that I'd be coming back. I Um, you know, obviously we won last season and being the reigning champ, you wouldn't think they're not going to bring you back, but also have been I've been with them for so long and definitely I feel like a part of that family, a part of a staple, I guess you would say, with the show. And we were all getting text messages about GM may rehearsals and the things coming up and whatnot, so there was no feeling of, oh, I might not have this gig, like I might not be coming back this season. So when it happened and I got the phone call, it was, um, it was a shock. I was driving on the freeway and had to pull over because I couldn't. I just couldn't process what was happening on this phone call. That so much sort of shock it was. And the executive producer, Andrew was the one that told me, and he said that they just weren't would have partnered me up this season and that they love me and I'm a part of the Dancing with the South family and the cast will be interchangeable now season to season. This will be happening quite a lot, and he hopes that you know, next season could be different and whatnot. So it was an interesting phone call. Um, Andrew is a new EP. He this is his first season, is taking over it as a sole EP, and he's got his dreams and ideas for it. So you know, the only way it's going to work is if everyone jumps on board and and believes in his dream too. You know. Well, my theory now is they knew that I would have been like everybody loaded up on shar In. It doesn't matter who she has. I do feel like that was a part of it. And I think there was almost us because again way after the fact, because you and I, as we were dancing, knew nothing about how the votes were. We just knew we were we weren't in the bottom two like and every week we were both like, oh boy, here we go again. And in that moment when they're calling out the bottoms, we were freaking out every time because they don't tell you. They didn't tell me anything, and I worked for ABC and they told me nothing. And so when it was all over, Um, randomly one of the executives said, hey, your vote differential was the highest on the show that it's ever been in the history of the show. Did the differential between first and second place we had no idea, and I think it's better we didn't have an idea because we just we worked extremely hard just trying to survive by and I think that because of that that maybe they were going, well, if we have to break somebody, I think it should be Sharna this season, because Bobby's a knucklehead and he'll just tell everybody to load up on Sharna. And I do think there's yeah, absolutely, because I would have you know, I would have been right there with you. So now that we've had a breath, um, do you think if they asked you back next season or three seasons from now, you would go back? Um, next season? Possible. It all depends on where I'm at with other things and what's going on. You know, I have this exciting twelve months of being able to try and make some other stuff happen. Really dive into my acting, dive back into those two hopeful shows that I hopefully going to make it to Broadway soon, I'll be back in Australia judging as well. I I'm excited about the opportunities coming up in the things in front of me. But if I am available and they want me, then absolutely I would love to have another season, because for me, what was super sad was that I didn't. I didn't know I may not ever have another season, and after so long, after nearly a decade, you kind of want to just if you know it's the last, you want to say for every moment and thank every single person that has been a part of that family in that vision with you for the last, you know, however many years. And um, that's the one thing that I wish that I did get to do, and which is also why it's amazing to go and visit the show. But yes, I mean I would never say no to it if I was available to do it, and we we both mutually wanted me to be on the show, so um, never say never. I love that shar what do you think? And I do too. I love it too, And until I went on, I had no idea anything about it. Honestly, I love it. I love the people. When I went, yeah, well, I just love the people. When I went back for the premiere episode, my favorite people are always the crew, the hair, the makeup, like the normal folks, because that's like like I feel like I'm one of them. And to go back and they were all like, oh, my goodness. It was so fun for me because it's not the stars that I'm most like. It's like the people in their grinding and that day to day and even all the camera guys, a lot of them came back and they were like, dude, it's so good to see you. You know, some of the dancing experts weren't happy to see me because I'm not like them, but all of you know, the people that are in putting the putting the time in, it was so great. Like, I love that show, and you know, I love the changes that they've made the season. What do you think about that? I think they've made. I think the sets beautiful. I think that some of the the visuals that they've had so far have been really stunning, and I think they've done a great job with it. I love that the judges are being harder. You know, there's more people seeing threes and fours and fives, because for me, that's at least giving it somewhere to go. You can't just be throwing out eight from week one all the time, because then what's really the difference between an eight, nine and a ten? Once everyone starts improving, and so I think it's actually great. I think Len's getting much more technical, and they're really hard on dance content, which um some people are loving and some people are not. I think the the rule of having to have more true to the dance content within the choreography has some people feeling like it's a little bit lackluster, like it has less of the pizzas. But also at the same time, more of that will come throughout the season. So I think it's going to be hard for people to make their full assessment of how they feel about all the changes until you get to the end and you see how they're letting it build and grow. But I think they're doing a great job, you know, Like I said, I want this show to last another ten years. I want dance to be on television, and so I hope that fans are responding to it, um positively. You know, I wouldn't mind. Listen, all the scores are low, but even the highest scores aren't that high. So it's all the same right right now. The only difference is you can actually build up later and get better right because nobody's getting nines you get rarely are they getting eights. You remember how excited we were when we got an eighth, got like once or twice until the very end show exactly. It's like you want to feel that even as a competitor, you want to feel that growth, like oh my god, you gotta you gotta five and then you work in your way up and when you finally see that eight and then you finally know, and then that can nearly makes you paved out, which I think we actually hit the ground when we got we did. There's a picture of us sitting on the ground one holy crap. But at that point, I do think that between you designing just a really fantastic final dance and them just going we throw our hands up, like we tried everything we can to make people not vote for Bobby and they're still going to vote for Bobby, and Charina like I feel like it was a mixture of both of those. When we got our tens, are just like, all right, we tap out, we give up correat creation of a dance, and I don't know what else we can do, and well done, you guys. Yeah, probably it probably was. I think they did try everything to um, you know, have us not win, But at the end of the day, you know, you can't help what the fans wanted, Um, and I'm not saying there was they had something out for us that they tried to give everyone a fair shot in knowing that our voting was so high, but there was nothing that they could do. And that's something that's also very different about this season that I'm not entirely sure everybody knows. But the dances no longer get to dance to design their dances, you know, I didn't know that. Every week, You know how much I was in the creative process, the song, the set, the colors, the costumes, everything. My brain is built with the team. Right now, the dancers just get their creative concepts given to them. They get told what they're wearing, what they said is, what their song is, what their everything. So they don't have that creative say in these pieces anymore. They may do when it gets to the freestyle, I don't know, because then it becomes their jam. But week to week, it's no longer Lindsay's creativity. It's no longer vowels creativity. It's all done for them by the new creative director that's working on the show. And so I actually find that really interesting too. Um and I have no real opinion on it because I'm not in it. But if I was, I would struggle to give up that creative also, that creativity and that part of the dance to someone else, because to me, dances not just steps. You know, if you're giving me a full piece that's already done and then asking me to just put steps to it, it's like giving me your biography and asking me to write your last chapter. But I know nothing about you. You know, for me, that just seems just joints, is sir. But you know, it seems like everyone's still creating great content anyway. Um, and maybe it's just helps everything work smoother behind the scenes, you know. I talked to Lauren Elena a lot, and I tell her because when you mentioned that, I think when we had breakfast, you were like, yeah, people aren't as in control as they were the past seasons. But I would tell Lauren even then, I said, hey, you have like two spots for you to act, like for Lauren, for you to actually take charge, and that is in that live spot after the dance, Like so much of what we did, like a big point was was in that spot. Because they can't control you, they can't control you. That's the one time. They can't edit your package, and what they can, they can edit the package and make anything they want. They can make. You can do the dance, you can do it, but in that one spot where they talk to you, you can do whatever you want. And that's when you have to be you and win America. And that was the advice that that I would give her as the person that's not the dancer, as the person that went out there and was just trying to connect with humans. And you know, I find it interesting this season that Lawrence never danced before, and I don't know why Hannah keeps acting like she's never danced. She danced for fourteen years and she had ballet for like fourteen years. That's danced absolutely danced before at at a high level. Yeah, And she wild it to me that people try and cover that up like you can't see it, you know what I mean. Even she's like, well it's not the same, Yeah, but it's something. And I like Hannah just find um, I know a little bit, but it's you know, when they're ongoing, she who have never danced like this before? Yeah, but you've danced, and so don't even go down that you don't have to say you danced, or say you didn't dance. You don't have to talk about that. You're talking about something else. But don't play the game of who didn't never danced? You did in your your beauty pageants. That was your skill, that was your talent. What are you talking about? You haven't danced. And so yeah, but I love James Vanderbeek and I love him and m are together, Um, because I love it. Emma is just the best, She's just the kindest. And then um, I love um Kate Flannery. Oh, she's so good. She won't win, but but she she's going to do better than people think. She won't win, but she'll do better than people think. Yeah, I agree. I got a lot of love for her, especially like on the floor, the way she's just there's something very lovely and like special about the way that she moved, and she's just so entertaining. At the same time, that week one dance she came out and did like I honestly just couldn't stop smiling while watching her. She's so such a phenomenal performer. The kill guy seems fake to me. He seems like the acting. He's an actor and he always seems like he's acting like he's always Yeah, I haven't connected to him, Eida, you know what I mean. I would, I would be on the same page. It's a good diplomatic answer. I'm like, I'm like, he's fake, and she's like, well, you know, I haven't connected either yet at this point, that's a good answer. I like that. It's good. I saw all And let me do a little plug here for you where you got your you're at it on cameo so people can get a video message from you. Yeah, they can actually just got on it a couple of days ago. I don't even know how. I didn't know about this, but I'm actually really excited to be on that so I can uh any But everybody wants a message or answer a question or a little birthday shout out. I'm getting a lot of those, some anniversary one, which is really sweet. Um. It's a very cool way to be connected to people and give a little something, you know. Yeah, I think that's cool. And so just go to cameo and look up Sharna and get her to send you a video message and she'll say, basically whatever you want. I've used Cameo to get people to send me messages before. I'm not gonna pay you. I just text you and be like, hey, send me a free one. But I've I've done that with people from the office before. I'm like, send me a cameo. So go and look for Sharna there on cameo this season, Searna, if you got to pick a winner a winner this season, who do you have? I would love to see James and Emma win it, but I think it may come down between here and Hannah, and I honestly can't decide right now who it's going to be. UM. I think that Hannah has a big fan base. I think she's talented, and I think people are like you and I hoping that her and Alan get together. I don't hope that. I don't hope that at all, Like, no, not you and I get I'm saying on our seas, yes together, Yes, that's what I mean. I was like, I don't mean, I don't hope that. I don't know king you on whether they do or they don't. Um, And but I think that a lot of people would love to see that, especially her being the Bachelor and her on her season and how that ended. I think they'd love to have the fairy tale happened here, So who knows if that's what people are going to vote for and be sort of captivated by. But I do think that James is the best answer in the competition. I think he's lovable and I think he's got to get fantastic partner. So for me, it's going to come down to the two of them. But if I had to pick one, I spoke to James. You know, I'm gonna leave Lauren out of this, although I think she'll make the finals. Um, I think that she's Her likability is going to really come through. And as long as you're on the bottom two, they can't kick you out right, that's it. They have. The new wrinkle they've added is you during the bottom two they get to pick who goes home. And as long as on the bottom through the bottom two you have a great fan vote and a pretty good score, you're rocking it. So she's never danced before, if it just Hannah's got to change. She's Hollywood Hannah. Now she's got Demmi Levado out there, She's got She's all Hollywood with all of her like, Hannah needs to go back to be an Alabama Hannah or America is gonna go you know, she's changed, it's she's not for me, because that's a big part of it. Yeah, I see that. You don't want to see someone change because of Hollywood. I totally get that. And Vanderbyk is actually getting nicer as it goes. You fall more and more in love with them and where you go, oh he's a fancy schmanci ell a actor. The more he talks, you go, oh wait, this is a nice guy. So I'm picking. And if the finals are four people, I'm going Vanderbeek, Hannah, Lauren, and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put Kaid in there because I just her likability and that's it. Who's your fourth or third and fourth? Definitely Lauren. I think she's so lovable and I think the more and more people get to see her and know her for sure, and she's honestly talented. Oh yeah, she's she's an athlete. She moved, she moves relatively in front of herself and how hard it is to learn. But when that goes on the floor, she's captivating and I think she's doing a great job. Who would I say is going to be the fourth spot Um the dancer, I don't think the dancer is that likable with with Um. With Sasha, I think she's just a fine dancer. She's a pop star, but she's not even the best dancer on the show, and she's not the most likable. Although she is kind of likable, I can't put her forth with you. I think she's likable, and I think she's great, but I think there are other personalities or more men rebel if that makes sense. Like, I think she's she's lovely and I really enjoyed her rumba last week, but there are other people that, while they may not be as gifted as her out dancing, they're more memorable for some reason. Unless she can break through that and find a way to be um you for people to connect to her more through the screen than I think that we might see her go home before the final unfortunately, because she's sweet and talented. But yeah, Max, I could actually agree with Kate again. I remember her every week and I love watching her and she challenged and I think her partner's doing a great job. I think Pasha is doing a really good job this season, and I think we might have the same top four. Well, there she has star Sharna Burgess Sharna Burgess dot com. But I want to put in and say, get a message from Sharna on cameo and she'll probably her dogs and some of the videos she's probably in like yoga clothes where she's exposing her middriff. It's all the time, she's just rocking it. Well, listen, I will. I'm gonna be back out there a lot obviously once we're we're shooting all of our stuff all over the country right now. But when it's l a time me and you time again, absolutely all right, I need with you. Good talk to you Francis soon, alright. So something we do here on this podcast is sometimes we'll get kind of behind the scenes of well music for sure with songwriters, but even with radio. And Brent Michael's here, who is the program director of a couple of stations in Bakersfield. Yes, so your stations are what we've got the bull N three that's show you're on, and then also KU's Easy, which has been a fifty year plus station in Bakersfield. And how long have you been a radio program director? Only about three and a half years. Yeah, I thought you've been doing it for a lot let me, which you're a compliment by the way, thank you, And how you run those stations over there, I thought you've been doing it for a long time. I've been in radio for about twenty years, and uh just kind of worked my way up at the station started and part time on the weekends and work my way all the way up. I started doing promotions until there was a full time on airshift and became music director and now program director of two stations. Wild that's pretty cool. I didn't know that that elevation happened in the last few years. So I guess when you became program director. Is that when we when we went on to Bakersfield. Yeah, right after I became program director. Kaye's Easy had been there for fifty years, but we decided to because countries now so diverse, to start a station that really focused on the newer brand of country, be more aggressive introducing new artists, and you and your brand are so synonymous with that that we thought it was a great fit. So I think a lot of our listeners wonder, and you know what, even I do too. Won the world of program director does because for me, I was I'm gonna get on the radio and I'm gonna be entertaining, And I don't want to do the hard stuff, which is what you do. I don't want to have to make decisions on how man. I don't want to do to management stuff, which is what you do. Like you're mostly behind the scenes. You're on the air too, I am, yes, um, but you're mostly behind the scenes. So as a program director of two radio stations, you wake up at the morning and what time? So I get up every morning a little before five, because I like, why in the world would you wake up that earlier if you don't have to do a morning show. Well, I like to get to the gym so that way I can help my wife get kids and everything ready for school. And then I'm I'm at the office little after seven in the morning. And then what do you do right when you get to the office as a radio station program director of two stations, like, what's the first thing you check on? So the first thing I do is I kind of take a look at our music logs for the day. So for people that don't realize radio stations of all their music planned out, and the program director just kind of is ultimately in charge of everything. That kind of comes out of the speakers. So we make the music decisions and uh, from there, we just kind of make sure the music gets played the bigger songs, songs people tell us they want to hear more often, you know, songs that are just getting star did you know, kind of putting that out there in certain times and places. And so the first thing I do when I get there is kind of go through the music for the day and make sure we're all set. Now you bring up an interesting thing that you get there and you look at the songs. So I guess, is there a day of the week where you kind of decide what that week's playlist ish is going to look like? Yeah, for us, it's on Thursdays. And so our station also has what's called a music director, So he also takes a listen to all the different songs that are out there. And you know, I just feel one person has so much bias. You know, I don't know that one person should be making the music decisions in my opinion for a station, because everybody likes different things and everybody has different wants, and so together we sit down every Thursday and we take a look at all the different songs that we can choose from for that week, and we decide, okay, basic based on the number of songs that we're playing that our current songs at any given time, you know, okay, we've out one spot to put in a new song this week or two songs, and so we'll go through that, and we'll go through the research that people are are telling us. We have a mechanism for people to go online and tell us what songs they like and what they're getting tired of. We go through all that information. We look at what's streaming, what's being consumed in the market, you know, so what people are watching on YouTube, what people are buying, and that's how we make those choices. So on a Thursday, and we're kind of rewinding now, on a Thursday, you go in and decide what the playlist is gonna look like. Now, if I'm right, Because for a brief amount of time, I was a music director and hated it because I just was not for me. I just said, I didn't want to get on a computer and schedule things. I didn't want to talk to record labels. I just wanted to be funny. So on a Thursday, you meet and go these are the songs that are going to be put in for next week, and then is there still kind of like a formula in a program where you go, our most important songs are these six seven How many powers would you have for us? We have seven on kuse easy and six on the bowl. So those six biggest songs are programmed to play every x amount of time, so boom there in those spots. So you're not going in scheduling every song every day. It's kind of a program based on the songs you pick each week. Yes, we have a computer program, and most radio stations do they have a computer program. You sort of tell it, Okay, these are the most popular songs. These are the songs that are after that. These are older songs that are still really popular. And you come up what they call a clock, which is sort of all the different songs and where they go. So two or three songs that maybe people aren't as familiar with yet, don't play all in a row. Spread them out. It's a good spread them out. So you'll do the big, big medium one people don't know, then a big one again. They don't hear two songs in a row, They're like, what the what was that? Right? Okay, so you go in in the morning. Now we're gonna go back to your day of Yes, you've already got your songs picked for the week. So now you're you're you're looking at the log to make sure the computer didn't botch it right and didn't programs with an accidentally into in a wrong spot right. How long does that take? About fifteen to twenty minutes. I'll just kind of really scan through some of that's done the day before, but just make sure you know we're not having any technical problems or anything like that. Want to check in and then uh, from there, it's onto the email box. So when you're in there, are you monitoring your shows because you have you know, you have a legendary show at kuse E z Um. I love those guys by the way, they're They're always so nice to me when I see them. Um, at least one of them is. And then uh uh then there's us obviously. Are you like monitoring those back and forth to make sure their own issues? I do. As I drive into work, I flip back and forth between both radio shows and even I usually listen to some other shows that are in the market in the city. Just just to hear what they're doing too. So you're in, you've made you the logs cool, you've listened to the shows, you make sure there's no fires. Then what's in the what's in a program director's email box? So you have lots of different things. Um, you know, there are three main parts to a radio station. I always tell people. There's programming and that's kind of everything you sort of hear coming out musically in the DJs and that kind of thing, and even the big voice guy that's like use right. Yeah. And then there's promotions and promotions kind of everything you see. So that's you know, the website, social media contests or social medias. Now, yeah, I've been so out of that game that I didn't realize that was part of promotions. Oh cool, you know for us it is. And with that said, all the different personalities they are on both stations, Uh, they all have social kind of commitments and requirements that we have them do just you know, just so people can kind of see what goes on behind the scenes or what goes on in their life and and all that stuff. But um, so there's promotions and then their sales. The sales is kind of how radio stations make their money. It's the commercials. It's the most vital and most annoying part of my job. And in that order, by the way, most vital part of the job. I have really learned to embrace sales and at the same time to go, okay, these are our boundaries and this is where I can do the best for you. And it's a balance for me. It's a big balance, like what can I do? How much can I do without really jeopard I see the show because smartly, a lot of clients like I want everything, all that much you can give me, and I gotta go, oh, well, I can't give you everything, but why don't we do this kind of promotion? Um, So it's a balancing act for me. I can't. I don't know what it would be like for a program directorcause you have to manage all the sales through all the day. Right. It's a lot of the same thing. You know. We want to do things that our customers are our clients, that people advertising with the radio station feel they can partner with us on. But at the same time, you don't want to do things that will alienate the audience or that will make the audience tune out. So it is a balance of trying to find things that you know sound good for the person advertising, but also don't drive people away from listening that just don't want to hear boring commercials. You know, we had an issue today. Did you hear about the one today Mike at the commercial drawing on the podcast? Oh yeah, I heard about that, and can you hear Mike years Okay, so you know I'm very much too. It just can't be off brand with our show. Like if it's not something that we would we don't have to use it. I have to either use it for me to talk about it personally, I have to use it as someone close to me has to use it, or I won't put my voice on it. But that doesn't mean the show can't run things. But there was an e cigarette thing on our podcast, and we can do target analytic polytics now apparently where but on the digital part, if they know you're I'll just say a seventy year old dude from the Midwest, they can target you with specific ads, much like Instagram does it. And so one of the ads that was running was an e cigarette ad and I had to reach out and go this isn't our brand, Like nobody on this show smokes. I don't feel like that's for me. That's a good look for the show. And that was a tough decision because whomever that company has is paying money for that, and I never want to say no to money because our job, we're brought in so that the bottom line looked good for the people that are paying us. And in my career I've only had to like reach out about two or three times and never go I don't I know, almost like a porn shot up. At one point, it was like, mm, I don't know how I feel about x x x ding dong, you know, being on the show, um, and I don't know what they're gonna do and listen you want to have it. I don't even know what. I don't know what it was. I was just getting a lot of complaints about it. Did you hear the commercial? I never heard it. I just saw people talking about it. Who like people on text line calling or so I saw an email about it. Oh good? Were they like Bobby's right or were they like stupid Bobby's complaining again? They weren't like that? No? What were they? Well? I mean I saw initially like when they were saying what was running is what I saw? I didn'tee anybody, but based on what you said, Mike's and um, can you see Mike d And he looks like a bumblebee today. He's in a yellow ship with black stripes. And he walked up and I was like, and he's like, what's what are you doing? Like like a bumblebee? Dude, he's rocking it though he looks good. And he's like, can't wear stripes at all because he wore a black and white striped shirt and he was like. People were like, uh, like the hamburglar, anything with stripes because people like compare me to something else, cartoon characters of thing, I'm a bumblebee, you look like a bumblebee? A good like a mumble bee? Um? So, okay, you get your emails, you're dealing with sales, you're dealing programming. What is that a day you wake up? How many work when you go in? What are you looking at? Probably over the course of a whole day, I probably get a hundred to a hundred and fifty emails. Really do you ever check out and go? These are my hours where I'm not going to check my email. I really should, but I don't because the thing is even with me, I try, I go, you know what, I want to check out for a bit. But the problem is if you check out for a bit, and we should by the way, we should, we should, we should set but then we come back to it and there's like seven hundred you can never catch up well, And I think part of it is and you're obviously in a big part of the industry. Our our industry is seven industry. A radio station doesn't shut off. It's always going on, it's always happening, and so you always kind of have to stay on top of things. Do you ever get with your your personalities and sit down and go, okay, let's listen to your show and play it back and go, this is what you can do better, this is what's good? Do you do though? Still, yeah, we do. They're called air checks, and so what that is is you sit down, as you said, with a personality, and you listen to certain segments of the show and talk about different ways you can improve or what was great, or you know, maybe what missed the mark a little bit, what we can do better next time. But you know, I remember, as I was kind of getting started in radio. There were program directors with me would would give good advice about you know, what's what's going on. In fact, my first program director now works on our staff and so it's crazy. He's the person that gave me my first shot and and now he's on our air staff as I am, Oh, how the turn tables have turned? And I'll be honest, I thought that was gonna be awkward at first, but um, he's he's great. Yeah, yeah, what's his name? His name is Ken, Ken McCloud. We've we've been friends for a long time, So shout out Ken. So you you you play it recording back, which used to be on cassette tapes now it's just all digital, yep, and you can be like, all right, this is great, this is great. Maybe I do this a little better. Does anyone do that to you since you're on the air, You know, no, But I wish I had that as a resource. I do. I I've never had a problem with trying to get better. I believe that in everything I did. Check the crap out of you. Well, you didn't pronounce this vell. I'm the worst speaker in the like me on radio As a broadcaster. Not very good me on the radio as a human good, right, But I would be the worst person to go, you know, as a you could do better by saying I say nothing right, no words are right? No, I don't you do that pull up? Who's mine? Not mine? But you have great ideas, Uh, it depends what you describe great. Have ideas that give me in trouble sometimes, okay, so you work with the personalities. What's kind of the second half of the day about as a radio station program director? You know, it's interesting because I've had this conversation with a couple of people lately. You know, the music and the radio and the on air shift. I think it's about a third of what a program director does. And then the other two thirds is is the other managerial stuff that we've sort of talked about. Um So, working with the sales department to help people's you know, commercials and promotions get on and green lighting some things, sending some of the things back to work on a little more, working with our promotions department to make sure we have the right contests and we're marketing the station in the right way. Uh. Just dealing with you know, even internal office politics. You know, and when when people work together a lot in close confines, sometimes you know, disagreements come up, and listening and hearing what people have to say and trying to get people on the same page and really just just trying to do everything to market the radio station and and just make the radio station the best it can be. Him Ike, how much more time do I have a brand before we In this part of the interview, you got like another five cool I got because I got some questions. I'm trying to decide when I want to what I want to get into it with them with and not in a bad way. But okay, let's do this. Let's do the power rankings right now of contemporary country artists. Okay, um, I was reading website and they did like college foot ball, Uh it's Country Now, which is a new um country music blog, and they've ranked like the top twenty five country artists, which I thought was pretty bold them to do to rank them, and so much like college football with Clemsons one Alabama's too. Whenever we're doing this podcast, who knows what it will be by the time people hear this, Um, where who would you rank as number one? Right now? And let's do this at the same time. We'll both say it. But let's just say who we're going to say at the same time, so we're not affecting each other's judgment. Okay, So I'll go one, two, three, and then we'll say it. Okay, number one, one, two, three, Okay, solid the two look because you go Luke Brian go ahead, and and I would say Luke Combs number two, and I would say Luke Brian number one, I mean number two. Yeah, they're both right there. Luke Combs a new number one. He just he doesn't miss He hasn't missed yet any like a rocket. And I haven't seen some in my time here. I haven't seen someone blow up this fast period. He's the biggest. You're right, Luke Brian is the universe only big thank you. I've had a lot of something happen right there. Um, okay, good. So we're gonna go one and two and i'd go two and one. Good. Okay, think about it. Now, what would you have whatever for him? I'll just let you do number three, number three. Who would you have right now? I'll say Jason Aldan solid four four. I will say Blake Shelton, m and Blake's in California a lot. Yeah, we don't see Blake often here number five and five. Right now, I'll say Carrie Underwood. People love Carrie Underwood. Carry over and right now, carry over, Mirren, I think so right now. No disrespect to Baron Man is great. I like that we're ranking him no, because there's no disrespect to anyone. People gotta fall no slots, all right, Look at you, I like I like that you're making decisions. Um might anything you want to ask him? Can? I'll tell you Brent. Brent came out to watch me on Dancing with the Stars set in the crowd. Were you out there? We hung out? I sat next to Mike. Oh, you guys did. Yeah, that's fun. That's that's thank you for having us. By the way, because you're in California, which is my point, you are two hours behind. What is it light running our show when it's not exactly live. They're hearing it when we do it at seven, you're hearing it in your station at seven, but it's two hours back. Yes, is that ever an issue? You know? To some degree? I think it works in our favor. We we try or I do because I get up so early as I get up, and once I get to the gym, before we start the workout, I'll scroll through social media. It's already see what you guys are doing on the show, so we can kind of pre promote. You know, hey, they're doing the draft on this today, those kind of things, or so and so is making an appearance on the show today. So it works to our advantage. Um the one part, I think maybe it's a disadvantage, and you know, maybe sometimes it happens later in the morning, I don't hear it. It's harder for maybe a California listener to call in and get on the show. But I think with the text thing and other social media avenues, there's ways they can interact with the show. But that's probably anything the only drawback that's a good one. It's a good point to make. And that's why we don't do national contests where you can call in, because your people don't have a chance, and and Mountain people don't have a chance, like a fair chance because I'm hearing in an hour or two hours later, right, so, and then another but I think I benefit two of you guys being behind is when I come in and do liners. Every morning and cut like before the show even starts. You've got all my stuff, you know, it's like you gotta before anybody does, like you know, according to time. Any Um, we'll end on this. There is, as you know, and as you are one of the guys that's really working to combat the issue with females on the radio and country music. Where do you see it now and where it's going? Such an open ended question. I don't want to paint you in a corner. I go ahead, No. I think two things. One. I think the comment that to me gets made a lot about this issue is women don't want to hear women, and I think that's false. I think women do want to hear women. I think in certain occasions we have factor will data that shows they want to hear certain songs by male artists more at a certain time. But I think it's also the responsibility of people that put music on radio stations for for people to hear and discover. I think it's important for radio to still be a place where you can find an artist for the first time. And there's more ways to listen to music now than ever, between streaming services and watching videos on YouTube and the radio that you know, if we want to keep up with with everything else that's out there, we have to be able to break artists, and we have to be able to expose artists. And so I do feel that as a radio programmer, you have a responsibility to get artists that you believe in out to your audience. And sometimes it's gonna work. And maybe sometimes you'll love a song and and your audience doesn't get to it or love it as much as you do. But I think it's important that we do it. And so I can't speak for every radio program director, but but we make an effort to try to get female artists on the radio, and just even lately, I mean, I think Ingrid Andrew's is great. I think Ashley McBride is great. Um, you know on the Bowl we've we've kind of highlighted all of the women that you've put onto your class of twenty nineteen. It's just, you know, we do have a responsibility to get female artists exposure. And still, you know, make sure people are hearing the songs from the artists you know that are male, that are doing really well too. I think there's a way to do it all. He has a great voice, how am Mike. He's here talking, and I know he's talking about stuff that is cool and relevant. I like it and I'm agreeing with it, but I just started drifting away, going into God, I wish I had a voice like that. I've never heard the mic like pick up, so it's like, like, that's what a broadcaster ship sound like. Not me, like a pre pubescent fourteen year old. He's got like three pubicated See, sometimes I feel I sound to announcery. So I think there's there's there's gotta be a middle ground. Well, it ain't us. It ain't. Brent Michael's your name on Twitter and Instagram is what Let's see. On Twitter it's at Brent Michael's and then on Instagram it's at Brent Michael's radio because somebody has Brent Michael so they don't even use it. But that's like at Bobby Bones on both of them. The same guy. Hey, there's there, he is. Okay, listen, thanks for the talk. I appreciate you coming by and thanks for having me giving us a little feedback behind the scenes. What happens are my listeners, especially on this podcast, like to know, you know, what's like a song meeting like what's that You guys get in a room and go what do we like? What's the research say? And you look at other things, not just research that listeners do, but also what they're doing, not just what they're saying, what they're doing. And I like that. I think it's cool that because people go ahead, want did this song get played? This song from Blake Should's boot song? Warn't you playing that well because it's not a single. It's because the record label is not promoting it. They don't want to played. Then they black Wood like all the songs played, but the record label focuses on one song because they know they have a shot to get everybody to pay attention to one song better than they do everybody to pay that to eleven songs. And I think it makes for a concert experience. Now you can go and you know a specific song versus you know, everybody knows a couple, but they don't know them all. And I think that's part of the reason they do it too. There is a lesson in radio. I don't have the patients to do any of that. I wouldn't sit and do sales and I don't have the like you know what, screw it we're playing classic rock today. Know all those Freebird all day brand Michael's good to see you by, Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.