Chelsea Janes: Checkups on Mets, Yankees, Nationals & Orioles

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Hey, let's talk to SNY insider Chelsea Jans right now about Mets Yanks and maybe a little bit more.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Chelsea, great to have you on, And what.

00:00:10
Speaker 1: Did you think of the series for the Mets?

00:00:13
Speaker 2: Will start there? They win this series, it was exciting.

00:00:16
Speaker 1: They had the big comeback on Sunday, which they hadn't done in a million years, like two but they also lost Clay Holmes.

00:00:22
Speaker 2: So how do you kind of recap the last few days?

00:00:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, Friday night was one of the more depressing nights I've seen around a baseball team in a while, after Holmes broke his leg. I mean, they had no idea that was coming until you know, they happened to go get xtrays and oh my gosh, their best picture is out. Mendoza looked down. It was kind of it felt, honestly like the death knell. Right, you're not going to come back and win this series against the Yankees. You don't have your best picture anymore. Now this is really over. And then they win Saturday with David Peterson in an opener, which seemed unlikely, and then all of a sudden Sunday it's like their best comeback when in literal years since you know, Peter So home it against Devin Williams in that in that game in the twenty twenty four playoffs. So it's definitely the kind of game they're going to have to win with the kind of people they're going to have to win it with if they want to get back into this. It's certainly a positive because there's a lot of resilience on display that we hadn't seen from them. But man, when you start to look at the depth and the rotation, the lack of depth, I should say, you know, good feelings all around, but it's going to take something I think pretty special for them to turn this into a full recovery.

00:01:30
Speaker 4: Was the Taylor home run not special? Was that not something they can build on because a lot of teams look for one moment or something like that, And the three run homer by Taylor in the ninth and then winning it obviously in the tenth on the on the single I guess we call it by Benjiir the last inning where the two Yankees guys ran into each other. Is that not a moment that can turn them around?

00:01:49
Speaker 3: Yeah? If it's not, you know, nothing can I think you're totally right. It's just It's hard to see, right, It's hard to see how this lineup, as beat up as it is, and the rotation now is beat up as it is, can sustain. This doesn't mean they can't, you know, but I watched the twenty fifteen Nationals. They had, you know, Strasburg Sure's or that whole big rotation. They just kept getting guys hurt. And even when those guys came back late in the season and they were still in it, it took a little while to get them going. So I think I have a little PTSD there of like, Okay, you can hang in there, but will Lindor be what you want when he gets back? Is Robert going to be anything? What are you going to get from Polanco? You know it's not impossible, but it's it's going to be tough. But you're right, like, if that's not the moment, I don't know what the moment is. So you know, you'd rather obviously have that than not.

00:02:35
Speaker 5: Is there is there the nucleus to start dominating because where they're at now, the hole they're in, they need people that are going to dominate, not just I would That's why I would say about the Tyrone Taylor Homer like, it's cool, but you're talking about like a like a platoon guy, so like the nights he's not starting. How is this? You know, you build momentum by guys that are carrying this team, Juan Soto, and you say and Francisco and Dork, do they have the nucleus to say, Man, when these six guys are in the lineup, they are just going to carry us for an entire month.

00:03:08
Speaker 3: I think there's a world in which they do. That world includes Francisco Lindor coming back. It probably includes Louise Robert Junior getting healthy, which we all know you can't necessarily count on. But what they do have right now is two hitters in Carson Bench and aj Ewing who look like they've been here for years and are kind of carrying them and I think, to be honest, have absolutely no idea how hard this is supposed to be. Right Like, I think their advantage right now is that they're carrying a team that they shouldn't be able to carry, but they don't know it's supposed to be hard, and they're just kind of having fun and going out there, and you know, they're good at bats, have improved at bats, from Mark Fianto's and Brett Batty and other guys they really need. So you know, it's definitely a lineup as constructed where if everyone is good and Batty and Biento's take the next step and you know, if Boba Schett figures it out. That's one that I think is really hurting them. Yeah, they can be good. They can keep up, you know, if they can, you know, get Holmes back later this summer, then the rotation can keep up. But they're gonna have to tread water for a really long time until you get the guys in there you know can do it like the Lindors and those guys right now, they're hoping that guys who haven't done it can do it. So far, so good the last week or so, But I don't know that that's necessarily a recipe for long term success.

00:04:24
Speaker 4: Hey, you mentioned Lindor coming back at some point. I mean, I was watching these games this weekend. He was engaged on the bench. Is this the most we've seen him engage? I mean he was the first one out there. He was banging the dugout padding. Is this what they need from Lindor when he comes Not only now, but when he comes back.

00:04:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it was noticeable to me in spring training as well as when he first got you know, and he had the handmaid in spring training, right, so he couldn't be participating normally until really the very end. But he was pretty absent, you know, for a guy that I had understood was a big part of this clubhouse. And I think is he just wasn't much because he was injured. He wasn't his place, he felt, I think so. And then he gets hurt again and he kind of you know, has to kind of go and do rehab and he's not a part of things again. So his role in this new group I think hasn't really had time to evolve. He does seem a lot more comfortable the last few weeks, you know, I think he's been in the clubhouse more visibly. He's definitely obviously been very active in the dugout. He hasn't traveled with them, so that's part of why you haven't seen them a lot. But the one thing I think it has been clear to me about him is even when they're on the road, you know, he's posting on Instagram like big Win or whatever it is, like he wants to seem engaged. He wants to be a good teammate and a leader of this team, and I think it's complicated coming into a brand new clubhouse in the year where you know, he hasn't been able to play regularly, because it's like, what do you do with that? How do you lead when you're in the injured list? So he's been kind of interesting to watch, but I do see a lot more comfort evolving. And you know, I think him being with the team being a dugout is only a positive. You know, He's certainly not a negative presence in any way.

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00:07:08
Speaker 5: We talk about this all the time, not just with the Mets, but teams that are struggling with high payrolls. Who's the leader on this team when Francisco's out, when Juan Soto's out, and now Francisco Alvarez is out, Like, who is that guy on this team? Because there was some rumblings before that, ah this team and then they switched everybody up. Who is the leader on this team to right the ship and make this ten of fifteen actually sustainable for the rest of the year.

00:07:39
Speaker 3: I think it's a really complicated question, right. We obviously heard a lot about it last year and I was not here for that, but from what I can glean, I think there were a lot of people Brandon Neimo, PETERL. Bonzo, you know, Lindor, who sort of viewed themselves as that person, but maybe there wasn't kind of one person pulling everyone, you know, that one person everyone far. Obviously, Sodo comes in and is probably the best player, and that complicates things. I think what we're seeing this year is another clubhouse that kind of has to figure out what it is. I mean, you know, Marcus Simmons, a guy who's been around forever and can be kind of a heart o when it comes to plan every day and stuff. But I think he's been on the quieter side because he's not totally comfortable in the room. You know, Boba Schett, who's obviously had some big hits in his career, I think is still kind of feeling like where he belongs, and and Lindor has been out, so he hasn't sort of, you know, established himself as the main guy, which I think, you know, given the contracting signed, he is long expected to be. So I think it's Sodo. But I also don't think Sodo is going to go out of his way to do that. And I say that and I think people would take that as, oh, he doesn't care about his teammates, blah, blah blah. No. I just think he the best version of Juan Soto is just playing baseball and having people come to him. I think if you've noticed the last few nights, you know, Carson, benj and aj Ewing, it's like Sodo and the white guys in the outfield and they're like little buddies and it's just kind of an evolving relationship that's kind of cute to watch. But I think that's him. I think that's his best role in this clubhouse is not going in and saying I'm the leader, follow me, but rather sitting in his locker in the corner, letting guys kind of come over, you know, having his handshakes with everyone and just mashing like you know. And I think he is the leader in the lineup because he is the best sitter in the lineup and the one that can carry this team. And I think he is also sort of the, if not the leader, like the lighthouse in the clubhouse of like, if this guy's good, however this guy's reacting, you know, we can kind of follow him. But I still think this is a group that has a lot to kind of figure out about who it is and who fits where because you know, there's a lot of turnover in that room, and the first two months, I think you've seen the uncertainty that comes with that.

00:09:51
Speaker 5: You answered that question perfectly. Thank you, gosh, thank you that wow answering it without answering it perfect because we know what the answer is. But I gotta go to where basically this series hinged the bullpen. The Yankees bullpen is playing for the Mets, who then pitched better than the Yankees bullpen, which is now the Yankees bullpen. But was the Mets bullpen? Is there an issue there for the Yankees to get out pitched in the bullpen by a bullpen that has been struggling this year for the Mets and the Yankees were the ones that Or was this just a blip in the radar? And you know what, we'll chalk it up to that.

00:10:36
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think to this point in the season, until about Friday evening, I think the Yankees probably felt pretty good about letting Weaver and Williams go and the group they built last year at the deadline. You know, by comparison, I think Bennar had been really sturdy and all that. I don't necessarily think they feel bad about their bullpen now. But I do think what you saw is I think they just kind of lacked the dominant option back there, right. I think Camille Deval has the potential, hasn't really become that guy we thought he'd be when he was early with the Giants. You know, Bennar is really sturdy, but he's not going to absolutely blow you away. Tim Hill's been really effective, but kind of same thing, right, He's not an obvious fireman. So I think, you know, in the way that all good teams worry about their bullpen this time of year, the Yankees probably are looking at adding at the deadline. They always do. I don't necessarily think that means it's a problem, but I do think if you look at what is otherwise a very well rounded team, that's the place you're trying to add. And I just think they need a couple of big, big names, big arms back there so that Bennard gets bumped back and Tim Hill can be used sort of fully in a lefty role and you can just kind of get the best out of everyone without asking too much.

00:11:47
Speaker 5: Does it look like they thought they had a dominant piece in that bullpen just based on how the season started, the off season when and some of these guys were who were brought over last year at the trade deadline to be that dominant piece, because if you don't, if they never actually had that dominant piece, or they thought, well, we saw Bednar as a guy who we know what he did his All Star years and we're going to get back to that. If that's the case, then they kind of built this team a little bit short for what they want to do is win the World Series, because you need a dominant that if not three dominant back end guys, no matter how good your rotation is, you need that guaranteed three outs in the ninth inning. And I agree with you, I don't think they had that from the start of the year. So is this a construction thing.

00:12:33
Speaker 3: I guess yes, but I also kind of understand it. I think one of the things Aaron bram has said multiple times as their bullpen was pitching really well early, better than I thought based on the names, was like, I think some of these guys are just better than you guys realize. And you know, Brent Hedrick is a guy like people probably don't think about it much much. He's been really good. I mean, he's been a real fine for them. That's just like how they operate. You know, Brian Cashman has said, we don't we don't go out of our way not to sign big name for the bullpen. They just haven't done it. And I think, you know, having not been around forever here, that they're just very comfortable trying to see what's available in July. So I don't necessarily see it as like a glaring constructioner. I think it's probably a more conservative approach to a group they know they can build on later. And there's this the whole other part of it that I think gets looked over a little bit, which is that they've got a ton of starting pitching dip, which means they're probably going to be able to bump some people back there when it comes to it. Right. So you know, Ryan Weathers has pitched so well, maybe he's now off that list and certainly in the rotation. But if Freed comes back and Cole comes back, I mean Weathers has looked great and you can imagine the stuff playing up as a lefty in that role. Carlos lagron Hae throws a million miles an hour. He's in triple A. A guy who just basically played his way into roster consideration in the spring. You know, I think they want to keep him stretched out if they can. But if you get to September, I mean that's somebody that I think you can see in the back end for sure. So I think they also just kind of see the depth that exists in their system and think they can patch from there. But by and large, like if you had to say where did the Yankees go wrong constructing their roster, I think you point to the bullpen and say this is weaker than it needs to be to win World Series. But also in another way, it's it's probably the easiest unit to upgrade, and I don't necessarily think it's gonna doom them before they get a chance to do that.

00:14:29
Speaker 4: Jelse, one of your old teams used to cover is the Washington Nationals. Are Are they for real? Because they're twenty three, twenty four, they're around, they score a ton of runs. I mean, if they get any kind of pitching, they win. But is there are this team for real? Can this team stay around the five hundred mark and be competitive and show that natitude like they used to.

00:14:50
Speaker 3: Nattitude? Yeah? I don't know. I don't think they have the pitching. To be honest, what I always thought about this team under Paul Taboni was the they would probably be ten wins better purely because they have such a clear direction now, because there are so many detailed plans for all these young guys of like, here's how we're going to get you better, here's the vision, And that just didn't exist before. You know, I think you saw guys like James Wood and now departed Mackenzie Gorge just get demoralized last year, Like if you look at the way they kind of fall off fell off. Yeah, I just think it was a tough place to play because it didn't seem like there was a way out of the holder. And and now under Tiboni and Bhuterra and that whole crew, it's like, here's the plan, here's how you're going to get better. Here's how we're going to get better. So I think, purely on vibes, they were going to get better. That being said, I think they've made people better, right, I mean, their lineup has been really, really good. They've done a good job finding people to add to it who can hit. But Brady House there were times where he looked like he was totally a lost cause he's not anymore. You know. C. J. Abrams has been good. They've been able to kind of keep him locked in.

00:15:53
Speaker 2: You know.

00:15:53
Speaker 3: I just think they're they're doing a good job getting the most out of guys and offensively. I think maybe they're not going to leave the league, you know, like they have at times early. But I think they're going to be pretty sturdy and continue to get better. I think ultimately they're going to run out of pitching. I think you could argue they already have if you see the way the rotation has been at times. But you know, I think they're one of those teams that might be having their good year before you think they are. You know that they can take the leap frog a year in development and are a little better than you think. And the real question will be how do you get the pitching to catch up to where the hitting is by next year if there is a next year, because I think that's obviously the part that's going to take a little longer when they get their hands on the minor league system there.

00:16:33
Speaker 5: We love our dog Bella, who splays out in the open sun on our floor like she's an underwear model and that's why we love her so much. To scratch her belly.

00:16:43
Speaker 2: She's a cutie.

00:16:44
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00:17:50
Speaker 3: So on.

00:17:50
Speaker 1: To finish with that question for you, are you surprised to see where Baltimore is? I mean, you know, you're looking at a Yankees team just now coming off like one of their bad stretches two and seven stretch. They're still in great shape in the Al East and Baltimore is sinking fast. What are your thoughts on what you've seen from them and how the winning window if they don't make the playoffs this year appeared to be a really really quick one.

00:18:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point. I am surprised, right Like I think maybe we, I being one of these people, overestimated how much they could count on the young guys, this young wave of talent that came up when it was Rechmond and Henderson and all that. I think their front office overestimated how quickly those guys would become stars or whatever, or that they could become stars. But I also think if you look at what Michael Lias has done year by year, I think he's learned some lessons, right. I think he's he got went out there this winner and got veterans Bassett, you know, Pete Alonzo, obviously, Taylor Award, Ryan Helsley, people who have been there before, who I think have helped some of these young guys understand what it takes. And it's still not happening. You know, they went out and they got starting pitching. I think they're continued over is that you got to pay for the big guys in the rotation if you really want to win. And maybe Bassett isn't that, you know, but even that I think shouldn't have knocked them down as far as they are right now. So I don't know. I mean, one thing I always think about the Orioles is, and this sounds funny, like I've always thought a guy like Tommy Famm, who they just signed to a myaor League deal, would be really fun to kind of put in that clubhouse because he is so different than these polished kids who come up in the Orioles system and know exactly what to say to the media and you know, are kind of perfectly well behaved guys, which they all are. I just think they've always needed a little edge, right, and and you know, obviously, I don't think Tommy Fan's going to come up and change their season, But I just mean there's some there's some edge they don't have, and I don't know how you create that. I thought Albernas might do it. Maybe he is doing it and we're not saying it yet, but there's just something that misses there with the people they bring in, and I don't know what it is. I credit Michael ISAs for trying to figure it out, but I think times running out because it's just not coming together year after year after year.

00:20:06
Speaker 4: My question on this is Chelsea. You know, you mentioned all this talent they have, but Gunner is obviously the one guy who's really shining. He's off to a terrible start this year, right. I feel watches it bats, He's hitting balls hard, he's getting frustrated, you know. I think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to lead this team. Holiday hasn't played yet, Kobe Mayo, Westburg's out for the year, right, Beavers hasn't done a whole lot. Athlete's having a nice start. Right, It's like they can't ever get everybody to align and play well together. Is that a development thing, do you think, or is that just the big leagues are really hard.

00:20:41
Speaker 5: And maybe one day it'll come together, will be good again.

00:20:45
Speaker 3: That's a good question too. I don't know. I certainly think they have had a lot of injuries to those young guys over the years, and I don't know if that's a systemic issue. I know they've tried to make some changes to training and stuff like that over the years, So I don't know, you know, I don't know how much blame sort of they should shoulder for having a lot of pictures get injured over the years, which they have, and having a lot of these you know, young core get hurt. The other thing is I just I do think there has been a lot of pressure on guys like Gunner and Adley over the years, and they've never quite figured out how to handle it or to take that pressure off. You know. I think I thought Pete Alonzo would do it. Maybe he you know, maybe we still see that. But yeah, there's there's something in these guys that are coming up from the Orioles that is preventing them from playing well consistently and from sort of taking that next step into stardom consistently and the way I see some of those guys, I think it's pressure. I think it's just an inability to kind of play free at the major league level. Injuries mean that they've probably had a lot more on them than they need pressure wise, and you know, I don't know who you blame for that, but I think it's kind of hard to deny, you know, watching them at this point.

00:21:59
Speaker 5: Has that quite been post to Craig Craig Alburn as a new manager just came from Cleveland, where everybody would agree, besides Jose Ramirez, you're just getting the most out of those guys. And right now people would say, well, you know what, Orioles players were really high ranked as they're coming up through They hit the ball hard, they throw it really hard, they run fast. But the Guardians don't have that in their minor league system. And yet they're winning with players from their minor league system. So has that question been posed what to see he see differently from the people that he saw that come up in the Cleveland system and play in the big leagues and come up through the oriole system and play in the big leagues.

00:22:44
Speaker 3: Not that I've seen anywhere on the record, and not that I asked him, you know, in the winter meetings or anything like that. It's a great question, it should be posed. But one of the things I've wondered is I don't is if they're as good as they think they are right the prospects, Like it's I think it's also possible that they're just not evaluating guys well that right, Like this is no not going to Athley Reritchmond, who I think is a really really good player, but they it was Bobby Witter, Athley Retchmand, and you know, one of them is is a superstar and the other has been trying for a long time. Like maybe it's that simple, like maybe the evaluation is just not as good as we think. Obviously that means a lot of other people who evaluate players Baseball America stuff like that, scouts are also wrong. But it could be it could be that, But I don't know. And you know, Albernas is someone interesting to bring up because he's I think he it was the perfect fit for them because he could bring some levity and maybe make those guys take it a little less seriously. And even he's kind of run into whatever that wall is of like you just can't get it, you know, you can't get them where you want them, So I don't know, but I would love to ask him that. And and if you guys get them, you should because I'd be fascinated.

00:23:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, that's a good point.

00:23:58
Speaker 1: When you start looking back at Bobby Wit versus Aadley Rushman, you got to nail your.

00:24:02
Speaker 5: Can't make that. Let see, I can't.

00:24:04
Speaker 4: I can't say that because at the time, Adley was like the Sensus number one. He's been to the All Star Game. I mean, he's done a lot of things. I mean, that's that's the one. Now, if you want to say they should have traded other people, like if they should have traded Kobe Mayo instead of someone else, so they should have traded Hairstad and someone else, I can see that. But to go back and say a college guy who was the switch hitting catcher with power from both sides, was supposed to be the cornerstone of your franchise, you take him one to one. Those guys don't grow on trees.

00:24:32
Speaker 5: I can't.

00:24:33
Speaker 4: I cannot. I cannot argue that pick because I mean, listen, Bobby WIT's great, but he also hasn't want anything either.

00:24:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean he's a better player. I know if you.

00:24:43
Speaker 4: Have a college kid, if you have a college guy, especially in a catcher like a position like a catcher that is the hardest position to find in the sport. He switch hits, he hits for power. He'supposed to be incredible leader. That is impossible to pass up them. Sorry, and he's made the All Star team a couple of times. Yes, he's been hurt, but it's not like Adley's been an abject failure. I mean he's they just haven't won the playoff games, and so that's the one. Listen, you can make the argument he should have traded this guy or that guy for this instead of this guy. But to say Adley over Bobby Whitt, Yeah, it's easy to look back now, but I promise you if you would have pulled a hundred scouts, probably ninety eight of them would have said take Adli Rutchman.

00:25:23
Speaker 3: Totally.

00:25:25
Speaker 5: I mean they would have said higher ceiling. With Wit, I think everybody would have said higher ceiling. But I mean the other part of the age. They didn't even bring up both extremely high character guys. So you take the older guy that's closer, and you say, yeah, I can't I can't argue that is Wit a better player. Absolutely. I think if you ask Adley that you would say he's a better player.

00:25:49
Speaker 1: It's good, good discussion, just to look back now at the roster construction and where they're at and how they tanked for six years to get to this and this isn't looking good. So I think they're going to rebound this year and at least be in the mix. But it's getting tougher to say that.

00:26:02
Speaker 2: Chelsea.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the extended time. We love talking to you, love your work on.

00:26:06
Speaker 2: U S and Y as well. Thank you for joining us, Thanks for having me