Courses You Think About and Places You Want to Go

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried.

00:00:06
Speaker 3: Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday Frida Egg Egg, Frida.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: Egg, Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run.

00:00:13
Speaker 1: Off of the.

00:00:37
Speaker 4: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson. Today we have a little bit different episode for you. This week was a I guess, great moment in my journey as the founder of Friday Golf. It is, you know, a company that's grown from just me making stuff in a very rudimentary way nine years ago to a full fledged team. This week we had our I would say it's kind of our first ever team off site, you know where we got everybody. We're a fully remote company together. Many of our colleagues here had never met. It was great to just get together spend time together. It's one of the challenges of remote work is that you don't have these personal relationships with people.

00:01:30
Speaker 1: You have a virtual relationship.

00:01:32
Speaker 4: So it was a wonderful week and I thought what would be fun is get a variety of voices to come on the podcast and answer a couple questions. A few of these people are people that do a lot of stuff for us that you don't hear necessarily from all that often, you know, do do some microphone and time constraints. We didn't get everybody on the team on it, but that might be something I do in the future. Big thanks to everyone that listens to this podcast over the years and has supported us for you know, a number of years and in a number of ways that has been you know, created this opportunity for us to have such a great, a great team that's growing and we're super excited. Uh you know, after spending a couple of days talking about the future and and some of the stuff we want to do.

00:02:24
Speaker 1: We're we're very excited about where we're going.

00:02:27
Speaker 4: And it wouldn't happen without all of the people that listen to this podcast, read our stuff, our members of cob TFS support. So big thanks to you, guys, and also a big thanks to the team that puts in so much tireless hard work to make everything possible in all of our products as as good as we possibly can. So thanks thanks to you guys. All Right, before we get to this podcast. Let's talk about our partners Stripe. Stripe someone I'm thankful for because they helped me, a entrepreneur, stand up a payment solution so that I was able to sell stuff on our website. In the early days of Frida Egg. I was not an expert developer. I was not an expert at building websites. But Stripe makes it super, super easy to use, and it made it possible for somebody like me to you know, create products that people could buy. They work with small companies, small entrepreneurs. At the time we first used Stripe, we were one person company. It was me to powering massive enterprises such as Alaska Airlines, Salesforce, Squarespace, Zoom, WordPress, companies that take you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even some of them millions of payments a day. In fact, Stripe works with so many businesses, work with millions of businesses of all different sizes or around the world. And because of their you know, how many businesses they work with and how many uh you know, products are purchased and different things are purchased using Stripe, they power one percent of the total global GDP. I can promise you that Stripe has a solution that will help your business. And if you want to learn more, go to stripe dot com. All right, let's get to the podcast. Uh, this is going to run through just our our our staff. I kind of give everybody an intro, so that's the way it's going to go. And I loved all the questions or all the answers. They were all different. Nobody gave the same answer despite not hearing everybody else's.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: It was.

00:04:52
Speaker 4: It was fun to do this podcast, and thank you all for listening and supporting us through the years. Matthew, you traveled quite a bit in twenty twenty four. I'm curious if this is going to be a golf course that you've played a long time ago or you played a lot, or a golf course that you recently played. What's the course that you most think about.

00:05:24
Speaker 5: I think this isn't actually a golf course, but more of a type of golf course that I think about a lot. And it actually includes two golf courses that I played this year. This type of golf course actually both happened to be nine hole golf courses, but they're both kind of these very rudimentary style designs that just kind of sit across the land. And the first one is the Hay Harbor Club, which is on an island off of New York, Fisher's Island to be specific. And this course was designed, I think in the early or the late eighteen hundreds, so it was a very rudimentary style golf course that just lays across the land and it kind of utilizes the land in a really interesting way, takes you around the property in a really cool way, and gives you views of the ocean. And I played it by myself on a kind of summer day, strong breeze coming off the water, and I was just walking around smiling the whole time because of how delightful it was just to be out there and experiencing something that's so rudimentary and just like basic, but using the land in such an interesting way and taking you on this really interesting journey. And the other course that kind of fits into this category that I think about a lot is Augusta Wynn Golf Club and Rolling the Braat. It's the same idea, but it was actually a more modern golf course and it was built in the late nineteen nineties early two thousands, and it was just laid out by some farmers and ranchers, and it's the same concept. It's very simple, there's not a lot to it. It was built on basically no budget, and it just lays across the land and it's really and it uses the land in really interesting ways. And I find those type of golf courses just to be the most interesting and kind of engaging, and it kind of just takes you back to this raw form of golf where it's just you and the land and your golf ball. And I just find that so compelling. And those are two courses that I think about constantly.

00:07:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like what you hit on is interesting in the sense of like the idea of golf, and it's it's kind of like the purest form of it.

00:07:54
Speaker 1: And you know, like when you think.

00:07:56
Speaker 4: About how golf started, it was not formalized the way it is now.

00:08:02
Speaker 1: It was just.

00:08:04
Speaker 4: There's the hole, here's your stick a ball, and go get in the hole. And it's like, you know, you just played over dunes and like you see the old pictures of old tom and like a match and it's just like gnarly grass and it's not this like extremely well presented, well kept and formal game that it is now like it was much more just raw. And I think the you know, the idea of these golf courses like Hay Harbor for example, where like you don't need to have the greens running twelve. When you have a plot of land that's like right on the ocean, it's going to be the natural elements are going to be plenty to make you think, and it's going to change every day. And then augusta wind obviously it's in the Nebraska Santell's like you get just awesome land. You know that that can make it feel different on a daily basis. What's the trip that you most want to take in twenty twenty five?

00:09:08
Speaker 5: This is a tough one. I was thinking about it for a while. It's not necessarily a golf course, but I really enjoy national parks and visiting national parks. And my girlfriend and I have recently got into rock climbing, and we've been doing a lot of rock climbing outdoors in Colorado where we live.

00:09:30
Speaker 1: With ropes are you just free?

00:09:32
Speaker 2: We do both.

00:09:34
Speaker 5: So we do a style called bouldering where you're not getting too high off the ground, and then we also do it with ropes where you are getting, you know, pretty high off the ground, but it's just kind of singular pitch, so it's anywhere between fifty and maybe one hundred and ten feet off the ground, which is kind of like the very entry level style. But where I'm going with this is I've been watching all these videos of your valley and it's probably the most popular climbing spot in the world, kind of most world famous in America, and I just feel like that environment and the experience of being down in that valley with these two thousand foot walls like cascading over your heads is like it just seems like a magical place. And that's somewhere I really really want to go see in the near future, whether or not I rock climb there or not, it's something really interesting that I'd like to go see.

00:10:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm bummed. I was supposed to go to Yosemite this year, but we had like a freak August snowstorm.

00:10:42
Speaker 1: We were going to camp.

00:10:43
Speaker 4: There's like a high alpine or high high mountain or high desert whatever lake called Tanaya Lake that we were going to camp near that's like apparently like sand bottom and like absolutely gorgeous, and we were you know, we were ready to go, We had the car all packed and then this like crazy weather system rolled in and it was good, and you know, I have a toddler, so it was like, this is gonna be the first big camp and it was like loads of like twenty in August, and it was like, I can't do this. I can't do it. So I need to get back. I really need to get to Yo seventy next year too. There's a golf course there, well, Wana.

00:11:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, I could add that onto the itinerary.

00:11:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna like stop by real quick on to drive out, but uh, but that'll.

00:11:37
Speaker 1: Be a great trip. Favorite pro golf moment in twenty four Oh, there's a lot.

00:11:41
Speaker 5: To choose from. I think the first a lot to choose from, not really, but the uh, the one that really sticks out, and I think is like a very cliche and obvious answer is the US Open at Pinehurst. And there is a specific moment during that that like really really clicked with me. When Rory was hitting I think it was a five iron into the fifth grade and a par five and he hits this seemingly perfect golf shot.

00:12:14
Speaker 2: It rolls, it's.

00:12:15
Speaker 5: Rolling up towards the pin, and it doesn't have enough steam to kind of get over this false front and then it just takes a left turn, rolls down this hill down into like this sandy waste area, and he hits like a seemingly perfect golf shot, but it's not quite precise enough. And it like really illuminated to me the fact that Pinehurst like has this certain aspect where like it has a very very high level of precision, and when you get a golf course that does that to these professionals, it is the absolute most compelling way to like watch the game of golf get played at the highest level. And it was like so illustrative throughout the entire golf course. Is like this really really high level of precision is needed to execute like these golf shots, and it's just so compelling to watch the best players in the world kind of under the tightest microscope as compared to just bombing the ball making a ton of birdies, and it's kind of just like, oh, like, how many puts did he make today and not how well did he execute every type of golf shot and kind of achieve this high level of precision.

00:13:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of people were at that point screaming that like Pineer's unfair because of where you know, like you don't get up that front and then you roll down and do like a terrible place, like you know, I think that's one of the things that's interesting about it, is like you just like almost hit that shot on five and like one of the worst places you can be. And it can get really dicey because like it could roll one way or the other and get whether you're in the bunker or the like, if you get in the waist, it's you're like, that's the worst place you could be on the whole. But like, what's interesting I think about it is like that's the risk you take. Like the people that like don't that, say that's unfair. It's like, well there has to be a risk for going for in two. It makes people think. It makes like you wonder if you should bail out to the right. But he was trying to hit a great shot, you know, he was trying to win the tournament. I think the other thing like what you hit on with Pinehurst and like the level of like everybody's going to focus in on like the the finish of that tournament. But he made so many great up and downs after that that moment, Like I think he got up and down on six, seven and eight if I and then he birdied nine, But like the up and downs, like the up and down on seven was so hard, he got in it. He made it look so easy, like all these shots, Like I think, like that's the thing is like he went through like a little period in that round where he wasn't playing his best, then he played like It's like it was such an embodiment of a golf round where like he had ebbs and flows of when he played well, when he was struggling.

00:15:12
Speaker 1: He got through it. He started to play really well.

00:15:15
Speaker 4: In the middle of the back nine, and then he just didn't close out the round, which is like kind of the beauty of golf.

00:15:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it kind of highlights that like precision, like you have to be precise for eighteen golf holes or else you're not going to win the golf tournament. And that's the really interesting part about of course like that with professionals, like it really showed who was playing the most precise for seventy two golf holes in that player one.

00:15:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a I think, like the other thing about Pinehurst, when you think back to it is like the the amount of mental stress that that golf course maybe puts on somebody, and especially over four rounds, you know, like four rounds of playing that golf course in a high stakes you know, Major Championship has a different level of mental I think challenge than than most golf courses.

00:16:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, you know like that if you're like the slightest bid off, it could cause you like serious trouble and you can make a bogie or double bogie. And that's like kind of what happened to Rory. He's he hits a shot where he's seemingly gonna make eagle and then he's like struggling to.

00:16:30
Speaker 1: Make par and I made a bogey.

00:16:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think he made bogie. Like he hits he hits the chip shot up and once again he's not quite precise enough and it rolls all the way back down.

00:16:39
Speaker 1: To his feet.

00:16:40
Speaker 5: So it's just like a very very compelling way to watch the best players in the in the world play, and there's not very many golf courses out there that that can do that.

00:16:50
Speaker 4: All Right, thank you, Matt, you'll be uh, you'll be on the pod more in twenty twenty five. I'm excited to see where your travels take you.

00:16:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm excited to hope, uh, hopefully we can get to Green Linen and check out new golf Club.

00:17:12
Speaker 4: All right, voice and personality you're very familiar with, Garrett Morrison, Joe.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: Well, people might not be familiar with this version of my voice. I have completely lost my voice. I've got a little bit of allergies going on. But mainly it was our team activity last night that I think did this to me. Have you described yet what we did?

00:17:34
Speaker 1: You lost the game show?

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Well, my team did lose the game show. We went to like a we went to a vintage game show. I don't know even how to describe this, as it's like a simulated vintage game show where.

00:17:48
Speaker 4: They playn't there was no simulation. There was a competition and your team lost.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: Listen, we won the skill based portion of the game, and we all know that you guys won the game of chance at the end, and there are a bizarre amount of points awarded to that game at the end. But we all know what happened. We don't need to tell her.

00:18:08
Speaker 4: I think I think it was very much a game of skill and we learned that PJ is not very good at that game of skill, putting up the bagel for his team when they needed points to a bad spot.

00:18:21
Speaker 2: So he did manage to guess the phrase Tommy Lee Jones as Agent K with all of maybe two letters as clues, so I'll give him credit for that.

00:18:30
Speaker 1: No, it was Sylvester Salone's Rocky belbo.

00:18:33
Speaker 2: Oh that that might have been the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:36
Speaker 1: The other one was yeah yeah.

00:18:38
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, suffice to say there was a lot of shouting and a couple of us lost our voices.

00:18:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I would I would have been shouting after losing too. So anyways, Garrett, what is the golf course that you find yourself thinking about the most right now?

00:18:56
Speaker 2: I think about Talking Stick Odam course a lot right now. Saw it for the first time earlier this year my colleague Cameron and I went to Arizona to do a variety of things, but one of those things was to go play and photograph the Udam course at Talking Stick formerly known as the North Course I believe, but this was built by Coren Crenshaw in nineteen ninety eight, so fairly early on in Coren Crenshaw's body of work. I guess you could say a couple of years after they built sand Hills in Nebraska, maybe five or six years after they built Kapalua. So this was one of their first kind of big projects. Thirty six holes at Talking Stick. They're now known as the Peeposh Course and the Udam Course. The Utem course is the one with more of a desert theme, and I found it a lot more appealing. The Peapash course a little more conventional. It was kind of I think Coren Crenshaw's, you know, meeting their clients halfway, maybe giving them something a bit more conventional and something a bit more experimental. The utemcorse more experimental.

00:20:01
Speaker 4: I enjoy I enjoyed hearing Bill talk about Talking Stick and like the idea of like he got off the site, knew they were building thirty six holes and called up Ben and Ben goes and called up Ben and said I need everything you got.

00:20:19
Speaker 2: He called all of his associates and said I need everything you got. I need all of your ideas for flat land golf holes.

00:20:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:20:26
Speaker 4: What is it about the Udam course that particularly you reminisce or makes you kind of just what is it that appeals.

00:20:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well it's exactly that that. It's a flat, almost featureless piece of land. The worst piece of land I think by quite a bit that Corn crunch Shaw have ever built a golf course on. They built some golf courses on weird pieces of land, but never anything that was just a completely blank canvas like this. And so it's an opportunity to see what Corn Crenshaw do when they're not given anything, because they're known for making the most of a great piece of land, right That's what sand Hills is a piece of land that had hundreds of possible golf holes and they found a really good sequence of them. But that's one kind of accomplishment. Another kind of accomplishment is to take nothing and make something out of it and still be yourself. They didn't do what Pete Dye would have done on this property. They built a core in Crenshaw golf course and yet and so they were respecting the lay of the land and the character of the land, and yet it's so interesting. It's so much more interesting of a golf course than most architects would have built there, and they didn't really seem to do that much. When you play the course, you think, oh, most of this must be natural, but they built almost all of it and made it feel as though it belonged to this place in the world. Every hole is memorable somehow, and that's really hard to do when you are taking kind of a restrained approach to a nothing piece of land. So it's kind of a magic trick that they did with this golf course. It's one of the smartest golf courses I think I've ever seen. And when I played it first, I was very interested in all the kind of strategic puzzles that the holes were presenting, and I enjoyed the course a lot. But the more I thought about it and the more I reflected on it, I was like, I can't believe they did this. It's one of the most remarkable designs I think of the modern era, and I think highly underrated and one that people can go play and see for themselves.

00:22:41
Speaker 4: I think when you think about the idea of constructing a golf course from nothing, there are really like two extremes that you have to do.

00:22:52
Speaker 1: You have to either go like.

00:22:56
Speaker 4: David kah and Tim Jackson said this to me about Scottsdale National, because I think this is like in the same city, complete opposite end of the spectrum. But I was, you know, they asked, like, what do you think, Like, well, that thing had to be there. I was looking at a sixty foot tall, six hundred yard hill that looks like a mountain.

00:23:15
Speaker 2: It's so big that you can't believe. Yeah, that then you wouldn't have thought that they would have built it. This is kind of the Fasio method. Yeah, he did this a lot.

00:23:22
Speaker 1: I don't think he.

00:23:23
Speaker 4: I think they went bigger than that, like and like I was like, there's no way that's fake, and they're like, well that's fake, right, Like that was constructed, but it was so you can't fathom the idea of it being built or you have to build stuff so small that it that it fits within that it's feasible that that could exist in the in the flat landscape. And that's what they did at Talking Stick. Yes, I actually have a similar I think about it around it Talking Stick.

00:23:55
Speaker 1: But it was like it was years ago.

00:23:57
Speaker 2: A long time ago. Yeah, it was when I was a fre Friday pretty really heavy interest in golf course design for the sake of golf course design.

00:24:05
Speaker 4: It's and the reason I think about it is I had this gnarly bout of flu. I was in Phoenix for work and I was there for a couple of weeks, and uh, I had this gnarly, gnarly sickness and then it was like I started to feel okay.

00:24:20
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna go out and play golf.

00:24:22
Speaker 4: And I booked a very late afternoon tea time at Talking Stick North and at that time they were doing Talking Stick did a music festival and literally I was playing as the sun was going down. It was like, you know, it's like if you if you go to music festival, it's like the best time is when you're you're there during the day and then that moment when the sun starts to go down, it is like.

00:24:44
Speaker 2: A really music festival.

00:24:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a magical time at a music festival. And I was I was like playing golf during this time and it is going down. I'm listening to the music like it was music that I would listen I was listening to. It was Capital Cities, I remember.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: It was. This was probably like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen is twenty thirteen.

00:25:09
Speaker 4: Probably, and uh, and yeah, it's like around I think back too, because it's like just this moment.

00:25:15
Speaker 1: It's like, what's better than this?

00:25:17
Speaker 4: Playing golf by yourself and having the music and you're playing a golf course you're enjoying in beautiful weather, And this was like, you know, it's funny because like you think about like the economy of golf, Like I remember booking that tea time for like twenty five dollars or like thirty dollars, just like how much golf has changed, Like the tea times there are in the hundreds.

00:25:40
Speaker 2: Yes they are. It's one of the troubles with talking stick. I don't think it's a great value proposition. The Oudam Course is a great golf course, and so I have a hard time saying it's not worth it to go play there. But it's a bummer that it's no longer an affordable option, which it used to be.

00:25:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, where are Where are you most looking forward to taking a trip too?

00:26:07
Speaker 2: This might be a twenty twenty sixth thing, but I have my eye on Canada. I know it's a big country, so that's pretty unspecific, but the mountains of Canada. I want to go see Bamp Springs. I want to go see Jasper Park, especially Jasper Park, the town and the golf course. The resort got hit by a pretty devastating wildfire just this past year and they're in the process of rebuilding. But this is one of the world's great public golf courses, one of the jewels of Canadian golf architecture, and I have always really wanted to see this course. But I think, especially after they rebuild and get the course back, I think this is an opportunity for them to maybe return to some principles of this golf course, to maybe do some good work out there that needed to be done. And so really looking forward to seeing Jasper Park and following that story. But there are a number of courses out in those mountains that I'd like to see. A lot of them are pretty far apart from each other, so I'm not sure how I'm gonna get from place to place. I hear there's a great train line that kind of runs through this part of the country, But I'd love to explore some mountain golf in Canada, and then secondarily just go to Vancouver, Canada, which is not far where I live. Yeah, it's Pacific Northwest. I probably should have gone there already, but there are some cool golf courses there, Capilano, Shaughnessee, and you know some places that I need to see and that's a more reasonable goal. Maybe for twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, maybe we start looking at the mountains.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a trip.

00:27:46
Speaker 4: It's funny, like there are certain places that I always talk I've talked about going for a very long time, and I feel like BAMF and Jasper Park on this journey or were like discussions about going in like twenty sixty.

00:28:01
Speaker 1: It's a place that my wife would love to come with.

00:28:03
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the thing. BAMF great place for taking a family.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:28:09
Speaker 4: And it's like funny because like every year it like rattles around and I feel like there's been like a discussion about maybe this is the year, but it never seems to fit in.

00:28:18
Speaker 2: And a tough one to pull the trigger on because it's pretty remote and it's it's sort of an intimidating trip in a lot of.

00:28:25
Speaker 4: Ways if you're from if you're on the West coast, though it's like a direct it's a short direct flight.

00:28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alaska flies to a lot of these places from a lot of the West Coast airports, So yeah, it's doable, but there's something that's a little bit, a little bit distant and intimidating about it, and you just have to work through that and and you know, plan, plan, a plan a week around it. Did Matt say he wanted to go to Nuke?

00:28:49
Speaker 1: No?

00:28:51
Speaker 2: I was here for the tail end of the conversation.

00:28:53
Speaker 1: So he wanted to go to Yosemite?

00:28:55
Speaker 2: Oh oh? Has he not been to Yosemite? Have you been to Yosemite?

00:28:59
Speaker 1: I told the story.

00:29:00
Speaker 4: I was supposed to go, but I had We had a freak, freak summer snowstorm that derailed our camping trip.

00:29:06
Speaker 2: My wife and I did our honeymoon in Yosemite. It was awesome.

00:29:10
Speaker 1: That's a This is a y seventy National Parks podcast today.

00:29:14
Speaker 2: People got to go to Yosemite. I don't have any any problem with that, all right?

00:29:19
Speaker 1: What's your favorite moment in pro golf? In twenty twenty four.

00:29:24
Speaker 2: Todd Hamilton at the Open Championship.

00:29:28
Speaker 1: What happened again?

00:29:31
Speaker 2: He just had the most over the top slappy moon.

00:29:35
Speaker 1: Remember that.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: I So the way we split up social media duties at the Open Championship is that.

00:29:47
Speaker 1: The late night late that was right at the start of.

00:29:50
Speaker 2: The right at the beginning of the Open, and so I stayed up late. I always stay up late on the first night of the Open at least, and I'm manning our social media cha and sort of keeping them going before other people wake up elsewhere in the country. And I'm sitting there watching the Open, and up to the tee steps Todd Hamilton. I forgot which open he won, was it two thousand and four?

00:30:16
Speaker 1: Yeah sone arch Tech, sonar tech.

00:30:20
Speaker 2: The sonar Tech Hybrid and obviously a great golfer. And I've seen plenty of these past champions play in opens and Masters, and they still have basically the golf swings that they had back in the day. Ian Wusdom, even as his body deteriorated from many many glasses of wine and you know.

00:30:46
Speaker 1: Rich meals dogs.

00:30:51
Speaker 2: He's still swung the golf club like Ian Wusdom. It may have been a little bit shorter, but there was still the essence of that move. And so I was expecting Todd Hamilton and to have something resembling a professional golfer's golf swing. He steps up to the tee and just puts the most unbelievably over the top nineteen handicappers move on the ball and the shape of the shot is like a low slice, and I don't want to I don't want to cast dispersions here. He ended up shooting what seventy nine eighty clearly not an eighteen handicap, but also, you know, not on the level of most of the members of this field. But I don't think I've seen a golf swing like that in a professional golf tournament at least in a long time. And it was just delightful to see somebody try to make their way around the golf course with this, with this move, and so there was it was. It was hilarious, but there was also something a little bit touching about it and the fact that he was putting himself out there. He knew this is what he was coming to the golf course with and he still went out there. All respect to Todd.

00:32:07
Speaker 4: Hamilton, I think the scoring was like very impressive. It shows like, yeah, it shows the level of like of of how like true professional golfers, like how they can get around a golf course because the shooting handicap, Yeah, shooting seventy nine eighty or whatever he shot is like unfathomable when you watch that swing.

00:32:32
Speaker 2: Well, he just must have such wonderful hands.

00:32:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's also.

00:32:37
Speaker 2: Likely like that you have to save it with your hands.

00:32:41
Speaker 4: Also, just like understanding, like I'm gonna miss here, I'm gonna avoid this, and I'm gonna get up and down ten times around like that's what we have to do.

00:32:51
Speaker 2: I loved it. It was It was my favorite golf watching of the year that night. And also just the feeling of kind of being alone in the middle of the night and watching this happen on the screen and then going on the internet and being like, hey, did you get to see this?

00:33:06
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:33:07
Speaker 2: It was. It was a great, great moment that kind of took me back to an earlier time in golf Twitter. And also also just you know, the the innocence of watching funny golf. I think that's that's something we don't get to see a lot on the assembly line pg A two or these days, like different quirky kinds of swings. This was. This was definitely that and it really stuck with me. I'm glad that you didn't remember it completely that I got to bring.

00:33:35
Speaker 1: That back in because I was sleeping. It's true. Yeah, for you you stay up late.

00:33:41
Speaker 4: My my Open championship is go to bed at the same time as my my four year old daughter and wake up at two am.

00:33:50
Speaker 1: I love it.

00:33:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean being in a dark house, a quiet house. Yeah, and if your if your kids are up with you, you know, they're usually pretty pretty quiet at that time. They haven't yet worked themselves up in their frenzy.

00:34:03
Speaker 1: They're not up at two am. But that would be trouble.

00:34:08
Speaker 2: I think, I think, I'm I think when my son was like one that I had a couple of open days when when it was two or three am. But anyway, Yeah, Todd Hamilton.

00:34:19
Speaker 4: All right, all right, Garrett, I'm looking forward to hearing the about twenty twenty five when when the time rolls around. But we'll hear you on the podcast way more obviously in the future.

00:34:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, big plans for twenty twenty five.

00:34:32
Speaker 1: Answer twenty four Yeah, all right. I am now joined by Will Knights. Will.

00:34:45
Speaker 4: Will Travels probably traveled more than me this year. He was a band of the road this year for sure, moving, traveling, honeymooning, running, Frida egg events, lots of places visited. First question, Will, what golf course do you find yourself thinking about the most these days, I.

00:35:05
Speaker 3: Think as far as recency bias goes, and maybe it wouldn't really matter, but I can't stop thinking of our trip to Old Town Club that we took on October. It happened to be the last one that we did for Friday events season. But I've heard nothing but amazing things from you and Garrett over the years about that place. And I think your quote was that there's not ten places in the country that you would rather play at that time of year. And truly blown away by that experience. The everything from conditioning to the actual golf course itself was just blew me away from start to finish. And I know that was the first time back for you in a couple of years, so I was wondering how that related to your first experience back there.

00:35:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they've done like substantial work. They did a renovation.

00:35:57
Speaker 4: They have new grass on the greens, went to Bermuda grass on the greens. But I mean the golf course is phenomenal. It's just I think like something you like kind of forget. It's like funny, how like when you you go around you see a bunch of golf courses and then it had been probably four or five years since I had been back. That like you forget about like how much you like a place, but like you, I like drove in the parking lot and then I looked out when I was walking down with my golf bag, and I looked out and just saw like the third hole, and I was like, oh, yeah, I just love how the you know, I think my favorite thing about that place is just how they have it presented to where you know, the fairways drape so far over the hills that when you're when you hit the line of charm, you have like great, great opportunities to make birdies. And but like when you are when you're just a little bit off that line of charm, what happens is you like catch the hill the hills that like just like throw your ball and you just your ball just keeps rolling out of position. And I think that's like one of the things that's great. And obviously we hadn't we had an awesome day. It was it was it was you know, seventy five head and rained in a while, it was breezy, and the golf course was in just absolutely phenomenal shape. Is there a particular hole or stretch of holes that you're you're you particular, are you that you were really fond of?

00:37:29
Speaker 3: I think what sticks out to me most is when you crest the hill on four and it just keeps curving around the corner and every yard left that you don't try to hug the right side of the fairway. It's like just bounds further down the hill and it can't. You can't help but just laugh at how dead you are when you're on the left side. You're basically it was an eight seven fairway over there, and you're just you're so out of position. You can't get at the green. The bunker are just right in your way. And looking back at that hole, Like, I mean, golf architectually really clicked for me in college when I played Prairie Dunes for the first time. We had an event there and so getting to see Maxwell at Old Town was like that just was like a crystallization, was like oh yeah, like this is what really got me into it. But I mean, four is the one hole that sticks out most, but there's so many stretches out there that I don't think I could pick just one. Like eleven is another incredible golf hole that I think the more you play at the seeing how much wider that fair way is than it looks. But trying twelve, yes, yeah, yeah, to eleven is the part three right twelve along the edge yep. Yeah, twelve is an all world golf hole. But I think you could play that golf course every day and find a new favorite golf hole each experience.

00:38:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just as extremely enjoyable place to play golf. And like I think, like the other thing that it does is like you always are hitting different shots out there from different lies. Like there's it's a fairly severe piece of land, but like you know, you're always hitting from uneven lies to targets that are up or down. It's you know, it is a golf course that you would get a lot better playing golf at. And I think like Prairie Dudents obviously is a phenomenical We have been very forthright with our adoration of Prairie Dunes over the years on this. But one of the things that I like about Old Town so much, it's probably my favorite eighteen hole Perry Maxwell design. Obviously, Prairie Dunes is nine holes of Perry Maxwell, nine holes of press his son the.

00:39:50
Speaker 1: Ho eighteen at Old.

00:39:51
Speaker 4: Town is really really incredible, and they've obviously with the help of Corn Crunshaw and Dunlop White the the Great Green Share there or Golf Golf Chair, they've done some amazing work.

00:40:05
Speaker 1: And I think it's like.

00:40:06
Speaker 4: One of the most fully realized in terms of potential golf courses that there is in the world. Like it is presented like pretty much the way it was intended to be presented in terms of width and green sizes. What trip are you most looking forward to taking or would you want to most take in twenty twenty five.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be on the calendar.

00:40:34
Speaker 3: So I'll tell I'll answer both questions, one that or two that are on the calendar. I can't wait to return to Michigan having like I know we share this the love for the state, but we have a couple of trips on the calendar, both Northern Michigan and Southwest Michigan, and both golf and non golf wise, I just can't wait to return to both of those areas. We're going to Southwest Michigan in the spring and then Northern Michigan in the fall. Is about as good as it's in the country.

00:41:00
Speaker 1: In my opinion.

00:41:01
Speaker 3: And then so both of those golf and golf I think on the calendar I'm most excited for. And then this year was the first time I ever went to Europe and so got that bug a little bit. I still haven't played golf over there, but got to take a couple of trips. One of them was our honeymoon, which is obviously amazing to Greece, so that was really cool, and I think that bug has definitely got me right now. There's all sorts of countries that I'm looking forward to seeing in the future. I think Spain and Portugal are pretty high on that list right now. I've seen a lot of people start going to that area and Portugal especially, and my wife studied abroad in Barcelona, so I know that's an area that she wants to get back to and kind of show me around a little bit.

00:41:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think one of the things about Spain and Portugal from what I understand also is like it's a very affordable area still, like it hasn't gotten just like it hasn't gotten like the crazy tourist expense was there a you know, two trips to Europe pretty awesome. I'm pretty jealous of that was there a particular country or place that you didn't have high expectations of that you loved.

00:42:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everyone should go to Slovenia, and it not just because Luca is fun, but the entire So we did a Croatia Slovenia combo trip and all you we really all my research was really on Croatia leading into it, so like did all the coastal stuff. It was amazing. It is as scenic as you expect it to be. But then we jumped over to Slovenia and did the capital is Lublana, and then we went up to I think it's just kind of a vacation talent, but it's Lake bled and both of those just blew me away. I think it compared to Croatia, especially, it was pretty affordable. Lublana as a city is just as beautiful as many other European cities in that area, and I think that's one that people have started combining with Croatia more. But it's something that I would highly highly recommend people go do.

00:43:13
Speaker 1: All right, good underrated travel rex here from Will. What was the pro golf moment that you enjoyed the most this year?

00:43:25
Speaker 3: So I didn't get I didn't get to watch it live, but I think that made it better. So we were in Greece during the President's Cup and I got to wake up and all of the nonsense of Seawu Kim's Night Night celebration against uh I don't even know it was. I think it was against Cantle, right and can'tle and Xander, and I saw the he put him to sleep or whatever, and I thought that clip was hilarious. And then it was about three hours later that I realized that they lost the match, and I like truly had no idea because I wasn't watching it live, and so I like scrolling back through Twitter, I was like, what, they didn't win this match? And you find out as like two holes prior at that moment, like he's had a couple in the past ten years of the President's Cup, but he really Like I still can't believe that he did that celebration without winning that match or did they tie it.

00:44:20
Speaker 4: I can't even remember they lost on eighteen. Yeah, you can't. You can't do the night Night if you're not gonna win. That being said, I think Seawoo Kim was a big time winner of the President's Cup because you know he splashes every year at the President's Cup every time he plays.

00:44:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like right now, we're just kind of clinging to any moment that brings us joy in the President's Cup, and him and Tom Kim have certainly brought that every year so far, and hopefully he just keep him around because we just need more. We need him shushing the crowd when they're about to get shut out. We need him the night night celebration and losing matches. That's it's just a new era for the President's Cup.

00:45:06
Speaker 4: I mean it was he took down remember the quil Hollow. He had that epic Sunday Singles match with JT. He had some boisterous reactions there, all right, Seawoo Kim getting the moment of Toy twenty four from Will Not Live. I do love the fact that you assumed he won and then hours later realized he did not win.

00:45:28
Speaker 1: That makes the moment.

00:45:31
Speaker 3: That will be something that not the moment itself, but the moment that I realized what really happened is something that's going to stick with me for a while because it was kind of like a fever dream. Right, It's like nine am and I'm just kind of putting the pieces together, and it's like, God, is what a sports moment that really was for all the right and wrong reasons.

00:45:51
Speaker 4: All right, thanks Will, we'll we'll talk sometime in twenty twenty five about the travels. All right, Cameron heard us a man that does not like to come on the mic.

00:46:11
Speaker 1: Creator of all of our.

00:46:12
Speaker 4: Video content, does a lot of our photo editing, does a lot of our logos.

00:46:17
Speaker 1: Is a big part of what.

00:46:19
Speaker 4: We do, but rarely you know, actually Low's talking about what he does. But he's been very, very busy the last couple of weeks pumping out YouTube content. If you haven't checked out the YouTube stuff, there's been a really great video on Sedge Valley, a really great video on maintenance at Oakmont, and a phenomenal video about Sweden's cove.

00:46:42
Speaker 1: I you know, I ran out of.

00:46:44
Speaker 4: Superlatives there, good describers there, Cameron, what golf course right now? Do you find yourself thinking about the most?

00:46:58
Speaker 6: First off, it's great to be here, and thanks for having me. It's probably a bit of recency bias, but I think about George Wright a lot. Garrett and I went and saw it as part of our Essex County Frida Egg event trip because we're filming that. I mean, that's a bit of a preview, but that'll be the next Allgrasses Local episode that we're gonna come out with. And you know, for those that haven't been there, it's a Donald Ross course that was built as part of the New Deal back in the thirties, and I mean I think it like might be the best public golf course in the country on some of the most incredible land. Yeah, I just it's it wasn't that long ago, but I think about it a lot.

00:47:51
Speaker 4: I think so when I saw it a couple of years ago, I was like blown away by the land, like the and I had like the same thought as I was, like, this is, without a doubt the best municipal golf course in the world. I think one of the unique one of the funny aspects of that is like there's this like huge Boston, New York sports rivalry, and I think it's widely accepted that beth Page Black is the best municipal golf course in the country, but I do not agree at all. I think George Wright is a way better golf course, a way more fun golf course.

00:48:30
Speaker 1: I think just like.

00:48:33
Speaker 4: You walk out there and like the first couple holes are like really they're really good, but they're like, you know, nothing crazy.

00:48:40
Speaker 1: And then you get to the fifth hole and that's where I was just like, holy shit.

00:48:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I haven't been to Beth Page, so I can't speak on that, but like you said, it's but even like the second the second shown into two is is fun. And then you play up the valley on three, you know, to ridge part three on four, and then yeah, the fairway on five is like one of the most amazing fairways you'll play anywhere. And when you go through the round, there's really only like one hole that I'm sort of just like, yeah, and that's the I think it's what is it eleven? I think that plays along the pond. I mean that's the big thing too, is like they had to fill basically a swamp in that part of the property when they built the golf course, and so it's just sort of a connector hole that plays along a pond on the left. That's like the only hole in the golf course that I'm like, eh, it's okay.

00:49:33
Speaker 1: Other every other.

00:49:34
Speaker 6: Hole in the golf course, you just think back and You're like, this would be some of these would be the best hole in like any golf course you play.

00:49:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh I mean like I could imagine.

00:49:44
Speaker 4: Like one of the things I loved about the place too is like you know this is uh in the wheeze, but it's like it's a course for the people, and like one of my I'll never forget it, Like one of my memories.

00:49:56
Speaker 1: Was like I went out there. I didn't have time to play. I just walked it.

00:50:01
Speaker 4: And I went out there and literally like the first tea time of the day, and I think it was on a Saturday morning was too, like like middle aged women who were carrying their bags. And when I ended up talking to the superintendent when and I was like this, you know, these women are like flying because like I was walking by myself, it was dark when I started to walk and like they were like keep it up with me, and he was like, oh yeah, they I mean they play every weekend the first tea time off. Like it is like definitely it's a course for the people. It's affordable, and I think like the thing that stands out when I compare it to Beth Page is just like the interest at the Green because it is like, you know, Beth Page has like such dramatic shots to get to the green, but then you get to the green and it's just like it's just very mundane. It's very like, you know, it's almost like municipal golf greens right where you just start. It's very uninteresting at George Wright. Like, I am very convinced that if George Wright went to like this is like a hypothetical and you would never want this to happen. But if George Wright had ten thousand rounds in the maintenance budget of a high end private club, I think it would be one of the two or three best golf courses in Boston.

00:51:29
Speaker 6: I completely agree, And I mean this is a bit of like a preview the episode. But that's the other thing too, is Len, the superintendent, who is a character just the most amazing guy, has that place dialed in too, Unlike, yeah, it's a city golf course, and you know, he's got a crew of just sort of normal working class guys, and honestly, one of the guys I believe it. I mean, there there, Honestly, they were some of the best greens we putted on the entire trip through Boston, which yeah, I mean it's uh, you know, if you haven't been there, go make it part of a Boston golf trip because it's like it is unbelievable.

00:52:19
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk a little travel. You travel quite a bit.

00:52:23
Speaker 4: I feel like you go to interesting places personally, you go to great places professionally. What are you most excited? What's a trip that you would most like to make in twenty twenty five. It could be golfer non golf related.

00:52:41
Speaker 6: I think for a lot of my life, and I do love to travel. I've always thought abroad, and I do love traveling abroad. But one thing I've enjoyed about this job is I grew up in the Northwest and I live on the West Coast, and outside of like seeing some family, I haven't seen a lot out of the country. And so one thing I've loved about this job is being able to see a lot of new places in the United States. And uh, one trip it's not I mean, it's it's sort of cat and ippy right now, but I still haven't been through sort of the new South Carolina courses, old Barnwell Place. We've gone to a lot, the Achin area. Yeah, I mean I think that that's sort of still a blind spot for me and and a place that I would love to check out as soon as possible.

00:53:35
Speaker 4: It's because you're you go there for a week, but you go there and you go to Augusta National and only Augusta National all week to take photos. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy that that vein of sand is like that, just like it runs from you know, effectively like Pinehurst through ach and down through Georgia. I hopefully, I'm I really want to see OCS work at fall Line. That's that's another one in the general, in that general sand pocket in Georgia. We'll see if we can make that happen. It's just it's just hard getting away as much in adding out because like, yeah, the Gusta thing, it just you go to the Masters. I'm not complaining about it, but uh but yeah, just like you're in this great area and there's so many places that you want to see around there, and it's like, well, you go to the we go to the tournament for seven straight days effectively. What's a what's your favorite pro golf moment from twenty twenty four?

00:54:38
Speaker 1: Yo?

00:54:38
Speaker 6: I mean everyone will remember this, but there was speaking of the Masters, which I was very lucky to photograph the whole week. There was a moment you were following Bryson and we well, we ran into each other and it was what round was? It was it like the second round. There's a third round, and he blasted his drive right on third and you turned to me and you said, I think he got up to his ball.

00:55:05
Speaker 1: And he started.

00:55:05
Speaker 6: Looking right right and you turn to me and you're like, I think he's gonna go up fourteen because he was deep in the trees on thirteen. And I was like, I think you're right. So I sprinted up to the top of the hill sort of between thirteen and fourteen, and what unfolded was one of the most bizarre, I think things anyone has ever seen in their lives. Bryson decides he's just gonna on his own pull out one of the navigation Augusta navigation signs and start carrying it around.

00:55:42
Speaker 1: Like across.

00:55:44
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just.

00:55:45
Speaker 6: Like they were volunteers like trying to grab it from him. He wouldn't give it. He wouldn't give it up. He was just hauling it around and I'm not even sure what his plan was necessarily. The one thing that I am upset up is I ended up on the wrong side taking photos of him because he turned around and started walking the other way, so I didn't get a great shot of his face carrying the sign. But in a moment, I'll never forget.

00:56:12
Speaker 4: I mean, he's a content star now, he knows what people are looking for. That's the old I mean, like no other golfer would have done that unless they understand like the aspects of the content around the business like that, you know, it.

00:56:28
Speaker 1: Goes, it goes.

00:56:28
Speaker 4: I mean twenty twenty four was kind of like the year of Bryson in the Majors, and it goes back to the Masters. That was like kind of the first moment there when he started to become a little bit more likable, you know, from like the mainstream golfer. And then it obviously like crescendoed at the Open, at the US Open, where he was like very much just playing to the crowd. But this is all these are all like very keen aware understand like what's going to happen if I pull out this this sign post myself, like it's gonna get take pictures taken of it, and people are gonna think it's awesome.

00:57:12
Speaker 6: I mean the other thing too, that people maybe don't even remember. I wasn't watching the tournament at the time, but he hit the shot up onto fourteen and then hit like an amazing shot onto the green onto thirteen from there, and I think it just illustrates like he's willing to think of things on the golf course that I think a lot of other pros aren't even willing to, like consider, don't. I've never seen anyone lay up onto fourteen from the trees on thirteen, but he was willing to do it, and then he executed the two shots as well.

00:57:44
Speaker 4: It's you know, when I think back to that moment, like as soon as he got there, I saw him just take He didn't even like think about it, and I thought back in my head, I was like, he thought about playing to four team from the from the forward te on thirteen before they moved the tea box back. This was something he talked about. And it was like, well, it was like that like clicked, and that's when I knew he was going right. Was that, like, oh, he used to think about playing up there before they moved the tea box back, And it was like this is. That's like why he he didn't even look left. He never looked left. And I think like ninety nine percent of players would have just chipped it out to the left because there was like a chip out to be made, and you would have had, you know, two hundred and twenty yards from a hanging lie into the grain, a really hard shot for a third. Instead he got it like up to a relatively flat lie. Well he was actually by the grandstand right, but he got the free drop relatively flat lied hit a wedge from like it was a super smart golf shot.

00:58:57
Speaker 1: All right, Cameron, thank you, thank you. Say I'm I'm.

00:59:01
Speaker 4: I would love how enthusiastic and excited you are to come on this podcast today. All right, the MIC's being turned around a bit here, usually behind the mic doing the mix of the ones and twos. PJ Clark, Pod producer Extraordinaire is joining me. PJ, what is the golf course that you find yourself thinking the most about?

00:59:30
Speaker 7: This is a byproduct of my living circumstance, I think, But the golf course that I think the most about, probably on a daily basis, is Bethpage Black. For location reasons, but also because uh, you know, we're heading into a Ryder Cup year, very very important to me personally.

00:59:52
Speaker 1: You got your gear.

00:59:53
Speaker 7: I've been outfitted in pre COVID twenty twenty four Ryder Cup year since like twenty seventeen, so I'm ready for it. But I I am. I mean the PG eight at twenty nineteen. Uh, you know, we'll see what happens with Jordan Speeth, We'll see what happens with Brooks Koevkiv, but there there might be some holdovers from that. But I'm excited for the upcoming year of everybody talking about Beth page Black.

01:00:21
Speaker 4: I think you know I posed this question, he said, the only course I think about best page Black?

01:00:26
Speaker 1: You played it this fall.

01:00:28
Speaker 4: Was there something that you realized about the course in playing it in the fall that you hadn't you know, thought about or noticed before?

01:00:39
Speaker 7: Well, they they moved the first t which I didn't realize. I actually texted my dad after we had teed off that day, like, hey, have you ever seen this tea box before? Because I hadn't. I and I had no idea where it came from, and I was very confused why we were playing from there. But they have moved the first tea to make a horseshoe around the eighteenth green and the first tea box all in one bleacher set up now, so the first hole itself is going to play completely differently. It's a way easier angle to cut the corner and try to drive that green. If you're a Bryson or a longer hitter, I think it's going to be close to possible, if not possible, depending on the wind. But that that I mean, it's it's it's a different, completely different start to the round, which was jarring for me showing up twenty minutes beforehand and then they were like, oh, you're teeing off from over here.

01:01:36
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't.

01:01:37
Speaker 7: I don't know where we're going.

01:01:39
Speaker 4: As I remember, we had an early morning podcast recording that was that was kind of jamming you. It was will PJ get to his tea time in time? What does Beth Page mean to.

01:01:51
Speaker 1: A native Long Islander?

01:01:53
Speaker 4: What is is there a lot of pride that comes with it, Like what is it that Beth Page.

01:01:59
Speaker 1: May you feel as a Long Islander?

01:02:02
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it's a it's a huge sense of pride to have these big, huge events and the Ryder Cup is obviously like a different stratosphere than a PGA or even a US Open. You know, the biggest event in golf being at a place that is so accessible to people, and that you know, I have friends that aren't even golfers, but everybody wants to go play, not even just the black, but go play the yellow or the green. It's a place where, like so many people grow up playing golf. Like the first time I ever went, my dad pulled me out of school to go to the the to the US Open in two thousand and nine, and like that's something I'll never forget. And growing up and figuring out that I could play that course and see those holes, and you know, I know where I was when I saw Padrick Harrington in two thousand and nine and trying to hit the same shots and being the same you know bunkers. I have seen parts of that course that probably nobody has ever seen before, and I'd been in just terrible locations there. But I'm excited to have the biggest event in sports.

01:03:17
Speaker 5: You know, on Long Island.

01:03:18
Speaker 7: I think that's really a sense of pride for a lot of people.

01:03:22
Speaker 4: What trip are you most excited about potentially taking? What trip do you want to take in twenty twenty five.

01:03:32
Speaker 7: It lines up with the golf schedule. But the number one MLB ballpark that has been on my list forever has been Pittsburgh PNC Park. I've done the stadium tour, but I have never actually seen a game there, and that is that's number one. I want to check that off in twenty twenty five. I mean it helps that the US Open is a half hour away, but that to me. I've spent a couple of weekends in Pittsburgh before when the Pirates have not been home. But I really like the city. Always a good Primante Bros. Sandwich. I think Pittsburgh is like a really underrated, like beautiful place that I've really enjoyed spending time in, and I'm excited to go back.

01:04:17
Speaker 4: What if what if the Pirates are on a way trip, what if they don't have a home stand?

01:04:22
Speaker 1: Will you be disappointed? Will you do another stadium tour?

01:04:25
Speaker 7: I checked, and we're in the clear. We're in the clear at least for the beginning of the week Monday through Wednesday, they're home. So I feel good about my odds and hopefully checking that one off.

01:04:37
Speaker 4: So you're saying we need to procure some team tickets for that week.

01:04:41
Speaker 7: I mean, I'd go by myself if I had to, but it would be a lot more fun if anybody was with me. I know Cameron. Cameron has said that P and C is a favorite of his too, so I'm I think I think that would be great.

01:04:54
Speaker 1: Have you been to the Giants Stadium?

01:04:56
Speaker 7: No, I've been outside of it. I went to the new Warriors Arena in January. No, not a fan.

01:05:06
Speaker 4: It's just like so sterile. You know, it's nice. It's a nice stadium. I feel like, nothing really compares though, to like Mason Square Garden when it comes to basketball.

01:05:18
Speaker 7: That is fair. That that is fair. But I mean I saw Lakers Warriors, so people were juiced. It was it was that like triple overtime game that was That was a really cool experience. But no, I've not checked. It's not ATT anymore, at and T anymore.

01:05:35
Speaker 4: It's Oracle. Yeah, you know, you gotta do the Oracle. I I took the ferry in. It was unbelievable because I lived north of the city and I got on a ferry and the boat dropped me in the outfield basically at the outfield gate it was the most unique way to get there. But the beautiful, beautiful park. All right, last question, what is the pro golf moment from twenty twenty four? You will remember the.

01:06:03
Speaker 7: Most outside of Scotti Scheffler getting arrested, which is obviously important and I don't think anybody will forget. And as great as Xander was to me, when I look back on twenty twenty four, I will think of it as the year of Bryson in all four majors. I mean, obviously he was great at the Masters, he was great at the PGA, and he was a great form of content for two days at the Open Championship.

01:06:31
Speaker 1: But I will look.

01:06:34
Speaker 7: Back on Bryson as a whole being the story of this year to me. But really his shot on Sunday at the US Open on eight, where he had hit it like long left of the green and was chipping back up this hill and it was really just, you know, he had to make the up and down, He had to make par and to get it up and down from the side where he was it was not gonna be easy, and he made I think it was like a six or an eight footer. It was not terribly long for par and he just ripped like a huge fist pump on the eighth green, and that was like that to me was kind of the story of Bryson's whole year is that he always found a way to kind of battle battle back. He did it down the stretch at the PGA, and he obviously held on at the US Open. But when I think if I had to pick like one Bryson moment from the year, I would pick that that eighth hole on Sunday as opposed to the eighteenth.

01:07:38
Speaker 1: I mean, you hit a nail on the head.

01:07:39
Speaker 4: The eighteenth up and down was insane incredible and what it does because of the moment in time and it being like that clutch moment. Like a lot of people when they think about football football games, like think about the last drive, but they forget a lot of times about like maybe they had a great little short drive at that to the first half that got them three points, that had him in the position to make the final drive, the up and down on eight with Rory making a birdie on nine, like while this is happening, you know, and Rory goes on a run right from there. The eighth hole kept him in striking distance. It was like so so important because he was not. He did not get off to a great start, and that up and down on eight was insanely hard. You couldn't have put a ball really like you could have put a ball in the waste area and it would have been but like in terms of short grass, you can't couldn't have put a ball in a much worse position than that great moment. Great year, PJ, and look forward to chatting Moore in twenty twenty five. All right, Next up on the hot seat here Joseph Lamania, a frequent guest of this podcast. Joseph, I'm asking everybody a.

01:08:58
Speaker 1: Couple questions here.

01:09:00
Speaker 4: What golf course are do you find yourself thinking about the most these days?

01:09:06
Speaker 8: Andy, I wish I think I didn't see as many golf I haven't really seen as many golf courses playing myself the last couple of years. That's an effort moving forward for me. One golf course I find myself thinking about all the time. That has been central to my understanding of golf, especially with a professional golf slant.

01:09:25
Speaker 1: Is TPC sawgrass.

01:09:27
Speaker 8: And I do think, for like one question, that a lot of people who are interested in getting into professional golf and the data side and the predictive side. Ask is where do you start? I think understanding TPC Sawgrass and Augusta and the ways that those two golf courses are different is a really good starting point. I find myself thinking about TPC Sawgrass, the story behind it, what it represents for the tour, and what kind of skills that it magnifies. I think about TPC Sawgrass like all time.

01:10:02
Speaker 4: It's amazing with modern golf architects, how much influence is derived from Harbortown and TPC Sawgrass, Like you hear, like I think Tom Doak, Bill Corr comes to mind. Mike Kapowski said something about TPC saw Grass the other day on this podcast and like there is such a resounding influence from the Pete Dye thing.

01:10:28
Speaker 1: What is it?

01:10:29
Speaker 4: What are the what about the shots and the way the golf course is that make that you think it has such a you know a unique spot in the game of golf.

01:10:42
Speaker 8: I think it's twofold one. The architecture itself, the character of the holes, the small greens, the reliability of wind and what that brings out in certain players, especially the Justin Thomas round where the conditions were extremely choppy, and he was flighting the ball everywhere like that's around. That stands out that's gonna happen more often at TPC Sawgrass than other golf courses. But I also think the forward thinking of Pete Dye in what TPC Sawgrass represents as a television product, the dynamism of the closing stretch, the way that fans sit, the amphitheater style of a lot of the holes. There's something brilliant about that foresight, and I kind of disagree with people who don't necessarily think that a closing stretch needs to be dynamite for it to be an exciting golf tournament. I think that's a pretty important component of a golf course, and the way TPC Sawgrass captures that, where it's not over until the end, it's a brilliant golf course, especially for professional golf.

01:11:49
Speaker 4: What you just said about closing stretches makes you all the more frustrated about with the PGA Tour how they like to jerry rig their closing stretches of matchplay events, you know, re routing the course so that they can make sure that certain holes are seen in case matches end. But like the golf course is laid out in a certain way to tell a certain story, and when you change the routing, it absolutely changes the feel and the as you use dynamism of a of a golf course and how it can be portrayed on TV. Let's talk travel in twenty twenty twenty twenty five. Is there a trip that you're going on or a trip you'd like to go on that you would most look forward to.

01:12:35
Speaker 8: I don't know if I'm going to make it happen in twenty twenty five. My top travel destination now for like ten years running probably is Japan. And I think the combination of how far it is plus the language barrier has been intimidating for me, but that I cannot wait to do that trip and I want to make sure I do it right. So I don't know if that's twenty twenty five, but Japan, and if people have recommendations for how to do that trip correctly, I think that's like a once in a lifetime I cannot wait to do that.

01:13:08
Speaker 4: I have found myself more and more wanting to go to Japan. You know, I think, like what's interesting to me. I have a family member who they go to like Asia, Southeast Asia, in Japan, that part of the world a lot. And they were telling my wife and I about how they always do layovers in Tokyo. There's like flight options to do layovers, and they're like, it's our favorite place we've ever been. You just hear resoundingly great feedback, like maybe the best food in the world, maybe like the cleanest place in among the cleanest places in the world, the most polite people in the world. Sure, there's a language barrier, but and then there's just so much to do. There's the outdoors, there's the architecture, there is like you know, is it is high high on my list? I think for personal travel there is some good golf there too. I you know, I could probably parlay it with a golf trip, but I've got a few places they are a little.

01:14:13
Speaker 1: Higher up on the golf. This is more of a personal thing for me. All right. Professional Golf twenty twenty four. What's the moment You'll remember.

01:14:25
Speaker 8: Yeah, I might be cheating here, and that it's not necessarily a shot. I think the potential for Scotty Scheffler to rise as a superstar that resonates with more people like I might be making too much of this match that's coming up in December, But the idea that Scotty's going a little bit rogue in that match with Rory Bryson and Brooks, asserting his place in the game and feeling more comfortable expressing his personality like something I was thinking about last night. I was watching an interview Steph Curry, and I don't follow Steph closely enough to maintain that this is definitely true, But like I think there's been this clamoring for Scotty Scheffler to have a different personality than he has. I think excellence and dignity as a form of superstardom is where Scotty Scheffler could potentially rise elevate his profile, and we don't need him to take on a personality that isn't his. Being dominant, being classy and going out and winning golf tournaments is a very attractive brand of superstardom, regardless of how many people it attracts.

01:15:40
Speaker 4: I think something I think that this last half of the year, like basically, the rest was a great moment for Scotty because it gave people something to The rest was not a great moment for Scotty, But like a great moment for Scotti pr because it gave something for like common fans to like glom to like as to why they liked him. You know, he handled that rest wonderfully. He got arrested in the morning, then he went out and shot sixty six or sixty seven, Like that's like out of this world, easy way for people to relate, to.

01:16:17
Speaker 1: Find fandom in them.

01:16:19
Speaker 4: But I also think since that moment, he has leveled up in how he communicates with the media. If you watch his press conferences closely, they've gotten a lot more interesting. He's spoke in his mind substantially more than he did a couple of years ago. And I think it's like realistic to just say, like, you know, if you're in your mid twenties and you're a golfer that rises to superstartdom, you haven't had to be in front of the mic a lot. That's a hard thing. It takes time to get used to. It could take a couple of years. And maybe we're just starting to see Scotty really feel comfortable with expressing his opinions. And you know, I think he's only going to get more comfortable the longer it is at the top of the game, which seems like, you know, mathematically he's going to.

01:17:08
Speaker 1: Be the number one ranked player in the world for some time.

01:17:11
Speaker 4: He's got a huge lead, so he is going to continue to get Like, you know, it's it's a change where you go from a player that never gets interviewed to a player that gets interviewed every if you play well, to a player that gets interviewed semi regularly.

01:17:27
Speaker 1: Because you're, you know, a.

01:17:28
Speaker 4: Top ten player in the world, the number one ranked player in the world, you get interviewed everywhere you go, every round, and I think like a lot of it is just reps of getting used to being interviewed and realizing, you know what, I can just tell people what's on my mind and it works.

01:17:48
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's crystallizing for me. I guess as we're talking through it, I'd say my favorite moment professional golf moment was the day of his arrest. Not the arrest itself, but his press conference after he went out and fired a very solid round where he had even said things like I probably shouldn't be divulging as much information as I am here. I think he understands that speaking the truth and asserting his voice is a powerful asset he has, and he's not as he's he's definitely reserved and careful with what he says, but he's doing less of that in a very dignified way while dominating on the golf course. And that's a cool brand for Scotti Scheffler to have.

01:18:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I had a moment with him this year where I was at Riviera and I was talking with a media member about the Myrtle Beach event and the qualifier, like the Influencer qualifier, and and we were batting around back and forth and Scotty. Scotty like just like was putting and walked over and goes, what are you guys talking about?

01:18:52
Speaker 1: And we're like the Myrtle Beach event. He's like, what do you think?

01:18:54
Speaker 4: And we're and I said, like, I mean, like, if you're doing something like this, it probably isn't a PG Tour event and shouldn't exist, Like it's not like this is not a real like they wouldn't do this for any other sport. And he gave me like his opinion on it, and he was like, so that's what I think, And he like just turned around and like kept putting and his opinion was like, you know what, it's going to garner more interest and it's good for that local event, so they should do that. I think, like we're on different sides, Like I just don't think that should be happening on the tour this Scottie Scheffler plays on. But you know, I appreciated his frank commentary right too, like exactly what he thought about the subject, and I was like, I would.

01:19:34
Speaker 1: Like to see more.

01:19:34
Speaker 4: And that was really before he started to come out of the shell, like I love the opinionated nature of like this is what I think about it.

01:19:42
Speaker 8: I think you you may think of other names here. I think there's a chance Scottie Scheffler's voice will carry more weight than any other professional golfers in the next five years. He's not somebody clamoring for the microphone and being obnoxious and always has a comment on things like he speaks when and he speaks, and I think his results back it up. I do think there's a chance, with how thoughtful he is and even keeled, his voice may carry more weight than any other professional golfers.

01:20:11
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, Joseph.

01:20:14
Speaker 4: We look forward to talking to you a great deal more of the rest of this year and next year on this podcast and reading or writing and everything else.

01:20:22
Speaker 1: So thanks for coming on.

01:20:34
Speaker 4: All right, thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast, and big thanks to PJ Clark, guest of this podcast and producer of this here podcast. We will be back next week with a couple of new episodes. Big thanks for listening as always, and we'll talk to you next week.

01:21:00
Speaker 7: Yeah,