Episode 165: Epigenetic Seed Adaptation and No-Till Success with Brad McIntyre

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All right.

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Hi, friends. Welcome to the

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Regenerative Agriculture

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Podcast. This is Jon Kempf.

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And I really enjoy having

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conversations where we discuss

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all the various aspects of soil

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health,

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plant health, livestock health,

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human health,

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and how we can how we can

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steward and manage and optimize

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these ecosystems for the best

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performance of everyone.

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And today we have a conversation

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I've been looking forward to for

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a while with Brad McIntyre out

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of Idaho, if I'm not mistaken.

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Brad is

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As a fairly diverse operation

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doing a number of different

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things you know it's when you

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have this diversity of

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perspective you develop

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your own perspective on what's

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happening in your local context

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that is perhaps more nuanced

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than if

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you're just doing one or two

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things. Even if you're doing

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those one or two things really

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well there's a diversity of

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perspective that's really

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beneficial.

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So

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Brad thank you for being here.

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Thank you for all the work that

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you're doing on your operation.

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Why don't you

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Well, let's begin by you giving

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us a bit of the context of the

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scope of your operation,

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the environment, the ecosystem

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that you're farming in and what

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your operation looks like.

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Yeah. Thanks, John, for having

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me. I've been excited to sit

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down and chat with you.

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I've listened to a lot of your

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podcasts and learned and grown

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through those. So I really

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appreciate this opportunity.

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We are in

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Caldwell, Idaho.

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We farm right here on the Snake

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River Basin. We're about a mile

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and a half up off the river.

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So we

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have a very diverse soil types

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through each field.

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And we're in a fairly populated

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area.

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We're out on the outskirts of

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it, but we have smaller field

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sizes and a lot of pressure from

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people moving out and building

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houses. And so that

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has kind of shaped what our

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business looks like today.

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But I am a farmer.

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generation farmer here in this

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area.

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And I, my, actually, my children

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are going to be fifth

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generation. So we're really

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proud of that.

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We

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mainly row crop seed, a lot of

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seed crop in this area.

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And as

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we were growing our farm, as I

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was, as a kid, we were growing,

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doing a lot of custom work in

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the hay industry, alfalfa

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industry.

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We were, you

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know, doing a lot.

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anywhere from 4 ,000 to 5 ,000

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acres of cutting,

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and really just

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heavy in equipment and

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labor.

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And it was getting to the point

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as these steel sizes were

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shrinking because of housing,

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roads were busier,

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we really started

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trying to understand what the

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future looks like for us and our

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business,

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and equipment costs continuing

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to go up.

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We just came to the point where

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we realized that that wasn't

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going to be something that was

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going to be good for the future

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And

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so we started scaling that back

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in the same time I

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was I'm always in that mindset

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of trying to find ways to do

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things easier better and I was

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Looking for a rock picker

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because of the snake we were

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playing we have a lot of rocks

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down here and so I was looking

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for a mechanical rock picker and

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it led me down a rabbit hole of

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someone that quit using the rock

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picker because of no till and

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And from there, I found the No

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-Till Conference in Indiana to

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go to,

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and there I met Gabe Brown,

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Ray Archuleta, and

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I just never looked back.

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I came home,

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instead of looking at equipment,

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I came home worried about soil

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health.

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And so as we're winding that

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custom hire business down,

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really focusing in on soil

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health and getting the family on

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board with that,

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because I have my father here

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still, and I have my brother,

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Ben,

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and also my brother, Brian and

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Spencer work in and out of the

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business with us.

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We all got excited about it.

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And so we went headlong into

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soil health and all those

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aspects of no -till,

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animals,

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you know, how do we cover crops?

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How do we do this the very best?

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And so our business has kind of

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evolved from that passion.

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So now currently today,

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we

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still farm around 1000 acres.

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We went from 3000 to 1000.

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We have

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livestock on the farm.

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We do direct sales,

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meat direct sales of grass

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finished beef,

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pastured pork,

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pastured poultry,

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and that's broilers and

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turkeys. And then we have egg

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layers also on pasture.

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And so that business has really

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evolved, but it all centers

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around soil health

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and how do we make our local

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ecosystem better?

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And then also how do we feed our

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local

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people and get them healthier?

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And are you doing any

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crop production other than

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through the livestock?

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Is it primarily all livestock

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and grazing and grass -based

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focus at this point?

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We do still do some seed

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production. We raise brassica

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seeds because we do run a seed

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house as part of that.

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So we clean and process seed and

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bag it

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custom and also for ourselves.

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So a lot of purple top turnip

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and then other,

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you know, if we get contracts on

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other brassica seeds, we'll,

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we'll raise them.

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I sell quite a bit of seed to

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green cover seed.

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And so that's been about a third

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of our business is doing the

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seeds.

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And then a third is that direct

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sales and a third is other

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cropping that we don't need for

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the animals or the seed that we

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sell commercially into the

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feedlots and dairies around

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here.

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And those crops that you're

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selling with those

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also be grain crops, corn, etc.?

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Yeah, corn mainly is what we

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sell outside of what our needs

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are for

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the farm and for the seed house.

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And everything we do is non

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-GMO.

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And that way that can work back

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and forth for our own animals.

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I've not visited your operation.

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I don't remember the rainfall

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context, but if I remember

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correctly from some of our

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earlier conversations, you are

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doing a lot of irrigation and

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you have some very challenging

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irrigation water quality.

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Yeah, we are fully irrigated.

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If we didn't have irrigation, we

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would have no cropland here.

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Rainfall is anywhere in that 8

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to 10

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inch range for the whole year,

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but most of it falls from

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October to May.

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And so that summertime is very

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dry. We actually just had a

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a heavy rainfall event the last

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couple of days.

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We got right at two inches of

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rain,

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inch and a half one day and a

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half inch the next day, which is

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unheard of in our area.

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But that's what we've been

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seeing more and more is

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longer periods of drought and

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then really intense storms that

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aren't, that hasn't been normal.

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That's where we're starting to

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see this change.

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Yeah, I think weather patterns

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are

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shifting as land use shifts all

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around the country and

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I'm really intrigued with some

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of the work that Alfalo and some

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of his colleagues are pointing

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to about how we can use

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agriculture and landscape

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management to change regional

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rainfall patterns.

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But that's a conversation for

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another day, I suppose.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. So you

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have a few aspects that I'd love

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to get into. But, you know,

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when you mentioned the seed

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production, I remember I

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think it might have been at a

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Green Cover Nexus event where

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you

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were talking about your seed

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production and the custom seed

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work that you do, and you had

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two different seed lines.

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You had the lifeline and the

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deathline.

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I still remember that quote.

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Tell us a little bit about that.

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Yeah, so just the way we treat

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seed is, you know, if a customer

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wants it treated with chemical,

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it's the deathline.

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And if we treat it with,

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biologicals, inoculants,

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and whatever that has life in

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it,

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it goes through a different, you

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know, different line.

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And so you have life and death.

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And so I always like focusing on

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the life side.

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And yeah,

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it's just one of those.

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And I like to think about it

293
00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:30,129
like that, because we're always

294
00:08:30,129 --> 00:08:31,829
out to kill something, or we're

295
00:08:31,829 --> 00:08:32,669
always out to keep something

296
00:08:32,669 --> 00:08:33,469
alive.

297
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,779
I'd way rather focus on,

298
00:08:35,409 --> 00:08:37,750
I call them my livestock in the

299
00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:38,549
soil.

300
00:08:38,250 --> 00:08:39,370
And then I've got my livestock

301
00:08:39,370 --> 00:08:41,090
on the above the soil.

302
00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:42,029
So

303
00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:43,860
I would way rather be focused on

304
00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:45,379
keeping something alive than

305
00:08:45,779 --> 00:08:46,579
killing something.

306
00:08:50,299 --> 00:08:51,399
Brad, one of the things that I'm

307
00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:52,500
intrigued by,

308
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,419
have been for a long time, is

309
00:08:54,419 --> 00:08:55,220
just the

310
00:08:56,180 --> 00:08:59,370
significant gap that appears to

311
00:08:59,370 --> 00:09:00,450
be present in commercially

312
00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:01,569
produced seed

313
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,960
where there doesn't appear to be

314
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:05,759
any

315
00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:08,960
emphasis or focus on quality

316
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,480
other than quality defined as

317
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:13,440
germination rate.

318
00:09:14,789 --> 00:09:16,569
So when you look at longevity,

319
00:09:16,809 --> 00:09:18,430
you look at seedling vigor and

320
00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:19,909
so forth, seed size, test

321
00:09:19,909 --> 00:09:20,709
weight,

322
00:09:20,889 --> 00:09:23,029
energy content, you can consider

323
00:09:23,029 --> 00:09:24,090
all these various parameters.

324
00:09:25,809 --> 00:09:26,609
So how

325
00:09:26,980 --> 00:09:29,569
do you think about producing

326
00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:31,889
quality seed and what are the

327
00:09:31,889 --> 00:09:33,649
factors that are particularly

328
00:09:33,649 --> 00:09:34,889
important and valuable to you?

329
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,600
Yeah, I mean, we're graded in

330
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,330
the seed industry by our germ

331
00:09:41,929 --> 00:09:44,210
and, you know, how pure the seed

332
00:09:44,210 --> 00:09:45,009
is.

333
00:09:45,250 --> 00:09:46,129
And that's, that's what

334
00:09:46,129 --> 00:09:48,299
everyone's, you know, buys off

335
00:09:48,299 --> 00:09:50,679
of and rates everything off of.

336
00:09:51,379 --> 00:09:54,480
The one thing that I have found

337
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,539
really interesting with

338
00:09:56,889 --> 00:09:57,750
my,

339
00:09:58,769 --> 00:10:00,009
like, if you take purple top

340
00:10:00,009 --> 00:10:02,720
turnip into perspective, when

341
00:10:03,059 --> 00:10:05,139
I took over the seed house from

342
00:10:05,139 --> 00:10:06,649
the gentleman, there was three

343
00:10:06,649 --> 00:10:08,250
lots of seed that were in that

344
00:10:08,250 --> 00:10:09,049
building

345
00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:10,440
of purple top turnip that

346
00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:12,309
were under germ that

347
00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:13,799
never could,

348
00:10:14,139 --> 00:10:15,179
you know, they were like in that

349
00:10:15,179 --> 00:10:16,960
50 to 60 % germ range.

350
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,379
And they all had been raised in

351
00:10:20,379 --> 00:10:22,580
the, you know, conventional way

352
00:10:22,580 --> 00:10:24,200
in rows, lots of fertilizer,

353
00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:26,590
lots of tillage

354
00:10:26,899 --> 00:10:27,919
to keep them clean.

355
00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:30,919
And I started raising purple

356
00:10:31,580 --> 00:10:33,340
top turnip in,

357
00:10:33,820 --> 00:10:35,379
and I was just, you know,

358
00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:37,500
drilling it. So it was in that

359
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:38,299
seven inch

360
00:10:38,330 --> 00:10:39,789
spacing with a no -till drill.

361
00:10:40,659 --> 00:10:42,100
And everyone told me,

362
00:10:42,860 --> 00:10:44,440
You know, you're crazy.

363
00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:47,139
And I'm like, well, I don't do

364
00:10:47,139 --> 00:10:48,620
tillage. So I got to figure out

365
00:10:48,620 --> 00:10:49,740
how to raise the seed crop.

366
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:51,440
And they wouldn't give me a

367
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:52,440
contract. And that's when I

368
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:53,240
started working with green

369
00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:54,080
cover. And I said, Hey,

370
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:56,039
I want to be focused on no till

371
00:10:56,039 --> 00:10:56,960
because I want to be focused on

372
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:57,759
my soil.

373
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,519
Are you willing to purchase from

374
00:11:00,519 --> 00:11:01,799
me? And they said, Yeah, if

375
00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:02,860
you're gonna be focused on soil,

376
00:11:03,139 --> 00:11:04,319
yeah, we'll definitely support

377
00:11:04,319 --> 00:11:05,180
you. And that's how it all got

378
00:11:05,180 --> 00:11:07,299
started. But the one thing is,

379
00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:08,139
is I've

380
00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:10,319
in in when it comes to those

381
00:11:10,319 --> 00:11:11,980
brassicas, I've never had a bad

382
00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:12,779
germ.

383
00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:15,629
And my germ typically gets

384
00:11:15,629 --> 00:11:18,970
better as it's sitting there and

385
00:11:18,970 --> 00:11:20,350
it doesn't sit real long.

386
00:11:20,409 --> 00:11:22,129
But I've actually held a box

387
00:11:22,129 --> 00:11:23,889
back and I've tested it.

388
00:11:24,139 --> 00:11:25,779
It's four years old now and it

389
00:11:25,779 --> 00:11:28,899
is maintaining like 95 % germ.

390
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:31,009
What creates that?

391
00:11:31,289 --> 00:11:32,950
You're smarter than me and you'd

392
00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:33,750
be able to

393
00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:35,039
maybe answer that.

394
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,600
but there's something to soil

395
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,440
health that's keeping that germ

396
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,019
and everything really good on

397
00:11:42,019 --> 00:11:42,819
that.

398
00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:44,899
Hang on, you've literally got me

399
00:11:44,899 --> 00:11:46,240
scratching my forehead here.

400
00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:48,110
How does germination rate

401
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:49,190
improve over time?

402
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:50,330
I didn't know such a thing was

403
00:11:50,330 --> 00:11:51,129
possible.

404
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:52,500
I don't know.

405
00:11:54,169 --> 00:11:55,490
That certain lot started like at

406
00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:56,889
91, and maybe it's a seed lab

407
00:11:56,889 --> 00:11:58,230
issue, but

408
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:01,120
that germ has got better.

409
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:04,250
Like an alfalfa seed and clover

410
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:05,149
seed, there's hard seed.

411
00:12:05,629 --> 00:12:07,649
And so maybe there's hard seed

412
00:12:07,649 --> 00:12:09,429
that they test as bad germ.

413
00:12:10,990 --> 00:12:13,309
You get that recording in

414
00:12:13,529 --> 00:12:14,590
alfalfa and clover,

415
00:12:15,009 --> 00:12:15,809
but

416
00:12:15,549 --> 00:12:17,169
on brassica, maybe there's a

417
00:12:17,169 --> 00:12:18,470
hard seed aspect to it.

418
00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:19,289
I don't know, but

419
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:20,639
that

420
00:12:20,950 --> 00:12:21,750
something,

421
00:12:21,970 --> 00:12:23,289
that seed is staying viable.

422
00:12:23,450 --> 00:12:24,750
And I've yet, in all the years

423
00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:26,289
I've grown in

424
00:12:27,470 --> 00:12:29,909
my no -till system, I've never

425
00:12:29,909 --> 00:12:30,709
had a bad germ.

426
00:12:30,809 --> 00:12:32,029
Maybe I just, I need to find,

427
00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:34,659
maybe I'm jinking myself, but

428
00:12:34,659 --> 00:12:36,259
I've never had a bad germ.

429
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,299
And there's some sort of, I feel

430
00:12:39,299 --> 00:12:41,220
like it's in the way we're

431
00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:42,019
raising it.

432
00:12:43,809 --> 00:12:44,609
And how

433
00:12:44,850 --> 00:12:45,649
has

434
00:12:46,149 --> 00:12:48,870
seed size or

435
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:51,110
seed weight perhaps, there's

436
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:52,110
both a size and a weight

437
00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:53,230
component, but how

438
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:55,279
has seeds per pound changed?

439
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,440
How is it different in the 90 %

440
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,360
germ versus the 50 to 60 % germ?

441
00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:03,319
They're typically,

442
00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:05,779
you know,

443
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,000
it's such a small seed anyways,

444
00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:09,000
but it's very,

445
00:13:09,769 --> 00:13:12,360
I would say average size.

446
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,840
It's not super plump.

447
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:16,769
But the box weight is heavier,

448
00:13:17,129 --> 00:13:19,960
where a lot of my standard box

449
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:20,759
size

450
00:13:21,009 --> 00:13:22,529
for a brassica when I'm

451
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,580
went for other growers when they

452
00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:26,360
come in, we'll have around that

453
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,399
2350 pounds or 2400 pounds.

454
00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:33,100
This specific lot that I've kept

455
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:35,220
back is closer to 2 ,500 pounds,

456
00:13:35,299 --> 00:13:36,099
so it's denser.

457
00:13:38,279 --> 00:13:39,079
Yeah.

458
00:13:40,429 --> 00:13:43,070
And in addition to the shift

459
00:13:43,070 --> 00:13:45,070
from tillage production to a no

460
00:13:45,070 --> 00:13:45,870
-till production,

461
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:48,559
what has the shift been in

462
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,340
nutrition management and

463
00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:51,919
herbicide, pesticide management

464
00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:52,719
and so forth?

465
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,700
So on those,

466
00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:57,909
like when you're looking at the

467
00:13:57,909 --> 00:13:59,370
brassicas type seeds,

468
00:14:01,289 --> 00:14:03,789
We've tried doing pre -emergence

469
00:14:03,789 --> 00:14:04,929
for weeds and stuff.

470
00:14:06,690 --> 00:14:07,889
And I don't,

471
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:10,179
in the no -till system, I don't

472
00:14:10,179 --> 00:14:11,159
see any change.

473
00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:13,080
So we've backed off of doing any

474
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,679
of those. We just plant it

475
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,340
thicker than the industry says

476
00:14:16,340 --> 00:14:17,139
to plant it.

477
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,740
We do get some mustard that come

478
00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:20,539
in,

479
00:14:20,379 --> 00:14:22,019
but with me controlling the

480
00:14:22,019 --> 00:14:23,820
cleaning side, I can get those

481
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:24,620
out.

482
00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:25,940
Here and there we'll have some

483
00:14:25,940 --> 00:14:26,960
issues, but it takes a little

484
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,779
bit extra work and extra passes,

485
00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:29,719
but

486
00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:31,730
I can take the time because I

487
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:33,450
have the machines to do it, to

488
00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:34,490
get it clean.

489
00:14:35,230 --> 00:14:37,649
And so no herbicide,

490
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:39,970
and I haven't,

491
00:14:42,009 --> 00:14:43,230
I can't say I haven't, there's

492
00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:44,049
been times,

493
00:14:44,430 --> 00:14:45,970
I would say half of the years I

494
00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:47,389
don't have to do anything for

495
00:14:47,389 --> 00:14:48,189
pests.

496
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,620
We do struggle with,

497
00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:50,860
oh,

498
00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:53,899
I'm gonna forget,

499
00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:55,980
you might have to cut this, I'm

500
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:56,980
trying to remember the exact

501
00:14:56,980 --> 00:14:57,779
pest.

502
00:14:59,049 --> 00:15:01,029
It's a weevil, a cabbage seed

503
00:15:01,029 --> 00:15:01,829
pod weevil.

504
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,240
We do struggle with cabbage seed

505
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:04,039
pod weevil.

506
00:15:04,529 --> 00:15:06,049
And so the years that it comes

507
00:15:06,049 --> 00:15:07,830
in heavy and early, we will have

508
00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:08,629
to take care of it.

509
00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:10,090
But other than that, I just

510
00:15:10,090 --> 00:15:11,730
usually if it comes in late, I

511
00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:13,730
just let it, you

512
00:15:14,289 --> 00:15:15,330
know, run its course.

513
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:18,539
And maybe it knocks yield out,

514
00:15:18,620 --> 00:15:19,809
maybe it doesn't.

515
00:15:19,850 --> 00:15:20,789
I've never tested that.

516
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:22,350
I just don't, I try not to

517
00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:23,149
spray.

518
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:24,809
And so we were able to really

519
00:15:24,809 --> 00:15:25,609
kind of

520
00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:26,439
And then

521
00:15:26,330 --> 00:15:28,990
on our nitrogen, we will put

522
00:15:28,990 --> 00:15:30,029
some nitrogen on it,

523
00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:32,009
but we follow your nitrogen

524
00:15:32,009 --> 00:15:32,809
recipe.

525
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:35,659
And so we were able to use about

526
00:15:35,659 --> 00:15:36,980
half of what the industry says

527
00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:37,779
to use.

528
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,519
And we seem to have really,

529
00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:40,929
really healthy

530
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:42,279
seed.

531
00:15:44,539 --> 00:15:46,720
Taking this approach, what does

532
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,460
your seed productivity per acre

533
00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:50,419
look like in terms of pounds per

534
00:15:50,419 --> 00:15:52,240
acre, yield per acre of actual

535
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,840
pounds as compared to the

536
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:55,639
historical trend?

537
00:15:59,649 --> 00:16:00,710
Our average,

538
00:16:01,389 --> 00:16:02,789
I would say we're in the

539
00:16:02,789 --> 00:16:03,889
average. We haven't seen a real

540
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:05,629
big jump in

541
00:16:05,980 --> 00:16:06,840
yield,

542
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:09,169
but we definitely had the

543
00:16:09,169 --> 00:16:12,169
reduction in expenses and high

544
00:16:12,610 --> 00:16:13,409
quality seed,

545
00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:15,539
but not ever losing a crop,

546
00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:16,879
that's important.

547
00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:19,809
You may not have seen an

548
00:16:19,809 --> 00:16:21,830
increase in yield, but have you

549
00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:22,789
seen any yield reductions?

550
00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:24,990
No,

551
00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:25,719
no.

552
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,360
In no -till in general,

553
00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:30,029
everyone said, oh, just plan on

554
00:16:30,029 --> 00:16:32,149
a yield reduction as you get

555
00:16:32,149 --> 00:16:32,949
going.

556
00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:37,460
From where our yields were, we

557
00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:38,840
flatlined for a couple of years.

558
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,799
We did not grow, but we didn't

559
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:41,599
fall.

560
00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:43,159
And then we've slowly been on an

561
00:16:43,159 --> 00:16:43,959
incline.

562
00:16:45,319 --> 00:16:47,120
And there's some random years

563
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,440
with other issues, like on corn,

564
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:50,799
might have a little bit of a

565
00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:51,599
lag.

566
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:54,100
You can always tie it back to a

567
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:54,919
management issue,

568
00:16:56,319 --> 00:16:58,419
but we've been able to actually

569
00:16:58,419 --> 00:17:01,129
increase our yields through no

570
00:17:01,129 --> 00:17:01,929
-till

571
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:04,309
almost every year.

572
00:17:06,369 --> 00:17:08,539
What do you attribute to the

573
00:17:08,539 --> 00:17:09,839
fact that you did not have a

574
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,579
yield decline as was predicted

575
00:17:11,579 --> 00:17:13,779
and suggested you should expect?

576
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:17,359
I

577
00:17:17,529 --> 00:17:19,309
don't know if I can really put

578
00:17:19,309 --> 00:17:20,369
my finger on it.

579
00:17:21,779 --> 00:17:23,480
The first, when we started no

580
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,319
-till, it was all behind alfalfa

581
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:26,759
into small grains.

582
00:17:27,819 --> 00:17:29,359
And then from there, we would go

583
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,000
into corn or other seed crops

584
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,119
from that point.

585
00:17:32,299 --> 00:17:33,099
And so the

586
00:17:33,769 --> 00:17:35,210
nice thing about no -tilling

587
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:37,990
into alfalfa is you had those

588
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:39,670
big channels for that root

589
00:17:39,670 --> 00:17:41,430
decay, and then those roots can

590
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:42,990
keep going down those channels

591
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:44,190
and so get through the

592
00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:45,210
compaction areas.

593
00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:47,160
And a diverse rotation.

594
00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:49,059
We're not just corn, soybeans.

595
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,619
We have a lot of different crops

596
00:17:51,619 --> 00:17:52,880
we can grow in our

597
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:54,529
county.

598
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:56,269
And so

599
00:17:56,740 --> 00:17:58,960
that, I think, helps a lot with

600
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,980
that decline is we're not just

601
00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:02,880
corn on corn, corn, beans.

602
00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:04,160
You know, we have that diverse

603
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:05,460
rotation and all that

604
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,700
root matter and stuff dying

605
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:09,000
down. And we just

606
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:10,599
never saw it.

607
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,960
I want to dig into the livestock

608
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:15,960
side of the operation,

609
00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:17,240
understand that a bit better as

610
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,039
well.

611
00:18:17,559 --> 00:18:18,900
But while we're having this

612
00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:19,960
conversation about seed

613
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:20,759
production,

614
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,619
Um, where, where do you see the

615
00:18:23,619 --> 00:18:24,779
opportunities for

616
00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:26,079
people,

617
00:18:26,369 --> 00:18:28,289
uh, in seed production or to

618
00:18:28,289 --> 00:18:29,089
grow their own seed?

619
00:18:29,049 --> 00:18:31,170
Where do you, it seems to me

620
00:18:31,869 --> 00:18:33,569
from some of the conversations I

621
00:18:33,569 --> 00:18:34,750
overhear, and I'm not deeply

622
00:18:34,750 --> 00:18:36,029
embedded in this space, so I

623
00:18:36,029 --> 00:18:37,390
don't know the details, but it

624
00:18:37,390 --> 00:18:38,309
seems to me that there,

625
00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:41,349
um, is a reasonable amount of

626
00:18:41,349 --> 00:18:43,109
unsupplied demand in this space.

627
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:44,440
What are you seeing?

628
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:47,069
Yeah, I think the biggest thing

629
00:18:47,069 --> 00:18:48,309
is finding the

630
00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:49,710
right buyer

631
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,079
and

632
00:18:51,589 --> 00:18:53,970
the seed industry is, is kind of

633
00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:55,529
in a lull at the moment.

634
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,859
With ag economy where it's at,

635
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,019
farmers are kind of rocking back

636
00:19:01,019 --> 00:19:02,180
on their heels and not knowing

637
00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:03,000
really what to do.

638
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,059
So there's kind of a kind of a

639
00:19:05,059 --> 00:19:06,160
weird spot right now.

640
00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:07,450
But I

641
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:10,119
still think people need

642
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,839
to be growing as much of their

643
00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:13,680
own seed as possible.

644
00:19:13,779 --> 00:19:14,779
Just when you look at

645
00:19:15,779 --> 00:19:18,559
epigenetics in their local

646
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:19,359
growing region,

647
00:19:20,519 --> 00:19:21,880
why not be focused on that?

648
00:19:26,190 --> 00:19:27,990
I know that in some of the group

649
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:29,089
discussions with Green Cover,

650
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:30,190
we've had some conversations

651
00:19:30,190 --> 00:19:32,509
about epigenetic variability in

652
00:19:32,509 --> 00:19:33,410
various regions.

653
00:19:33,630 --> 00:19:34,829
Have you experienced any of that

654
00:19:34,829 --> 00:19:35,690
in your own seed production?

655
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,380
I think

656
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,240
the biggest thing,

657
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:45,420
I always save seed back

658
00:19:45,859 --> 00:19:47,900
that like my purple top turnip,

659
00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:50,190
I guess unless I have a problem,

660
00:19:50,289 --> 00:19:51,869
I always try to, you know, keep

661
00:19:51,869 --> 00:19:53,329
quarantine and then save my seed

662
00:19:53,329 --> 00:19:54,129
back.

663
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,839
One thing that I saw that was

664
00:19:58,839 --> 00:20:00,000
was pretty crazy in the

665
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,960
epigenetic side,

666
00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:02,460
we

667
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:04,730
took over a farm that had

668
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:06,430
previously had

669
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,279
someone raised a forage collard

670
00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:11,079
on it.

671
00:20:11,420 --> 00:20:12,420
And so this

672
00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:14,009
person,

673
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:16,019
they had the collard, somebody

674
00:20:16,019 --> 00:20:17,140
else took the farm over and

675
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:18,480
raised onions and bell peppers

676
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:19,279
on this farm.

677
00:20:20,309 --> 00:20:21,109
And

678
00:20:21,329 --> 00:20:22,129
this

679
00:20:22,339 --> 00:20:23,720
area of the field that they

680
00:20:24,069 --> 00:20:25,269
didn't wanna farm because the

681
00:20:25,269 --> 00:20:26,390
soil was really poor.

682
00:20:27,170 --> 00:20:28,799
These forage collards kept

683
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:30,059
coming back and reseeding,

684
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:31,819
but they were not receiving any

685
00:20:31,819 --> 00:20:32,619
water.

686
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,539
And so we're in this really,

687
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,799
really low rainfall environment,

688
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:38,380
but those forage collards just

689
00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:39,640
kept growing back and they got

690
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,000
this really heavy stand.

691
00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:45,000
And so when I took that

692
00:20:46,299 --> 00:20:47,099
back,

693
00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:47,980
that

694
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:50,480
place back, I started farming it

695
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:51,279
again.

696
00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:52,869
And so

697
00:20:53,339 --> 00:20:55,779
this had been two years of no

698
00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:57,690
irrigation.

699
00:20:58,569 --> 00:21:00,549
I had the guy go up and harvest

700
00:21:00,549 --> 00:21:02,859
those, and those things went

701
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:05,240
almost 3 ,000 pounds to the

702
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,039
acre,

703
00:21:05,859 --> 00:21:07,480
and they've had no nutrients,

704
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,720
no water, and then they had just

705
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,059
receded. two years in a row,

706
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,099
well, three years in a row,

707
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:14,329
right in the same area.

708
00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:16,029
And so then I

709
00:21:16,339 --> 00:21:17,900
took that seed and used it in my

710
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:18,700
cover crop mixes,

711
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:20,460
and

712
00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:21,789
that seed

713
00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:24,460
had grown like, I mean, it

714
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:26,579
just was so much bigger.

715
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:28,099
It was, you know, probably six

716
00:21:28,099 --> 00:21:29,759
inches taller than the other

717
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:31,720
seed that you could buy of the

718
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,519
same variety.

719
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:34,940
And there was just something

720
00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:37,490
that had happened as it went

721
00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:39,789
through all that drought and

722
00:21:39,789 --> 00:21:40,630
stress,

723
00:21:42,619 --> 00:21:43,640
something with the epigenetics.

724
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:45,299
And would that react in other

725
00:21:45,299 --> 00:21:46,099
people's area?

726
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:46,700
I don't know.

727
00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:47,539
But in our area,

728
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,440
that seed was pretty amazing in

729
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:51,240
the mixes.

730
00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:54,210
What would be intriguing now is

731
00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:55,349
to take some of that seed and

732
00:21:55,349 --> 00:21:56,630
take it into other areas and see

733
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:57,849
how it responds in other areas.

734
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:59,470
Yeah, yeah, it would be.

735
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,259
But I know there's, as it

736
00:22:01,259 --> 00:22:02,099
adapts, I mean,

737
00:22:02,859 --> 00:22:04,740
we grow alfalfa seed.

738
00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:07,259
We have a line of alfalfa seed.

739
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,599
And the guy that I purchased the

740
00:22:10,049 --> 00:22:11,329
the seed house from,

741
00:22:11,730 --> 00:22:14,289
his theory on alfalfa seed was

742
00:22:14,289 --> 00:22:15,089
to

743
00:22:15,390 --> 00:22:16,750
always take

744
00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:20,180
seed from his new field from his

745
00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:20,980
oldest field,

746
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,119
because that seed,

747
00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:24,839
that alfalfa was adapting.

748
00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:27,250
And so he would take seed from

749
00:22:27,250 --> 00:22:28,269
the oldest field and plant the

750
00:22:28,269 --> 00:22:29,069
new field.

751
00:22:29,369 --> 00:22:30,869
And then he was always, as he

752
00:22:30,869 --> 00:22:31,990
planted new fields,

753
00:22:32,430 --> 00:22:33,230
he would do that.

754
00:22:33,089 --> 00:22:33,889
And so that's what we've been

755
00:22:33,730 --> 00:22:34,529
trying to do.

756
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,039
And

757
00:22:36,089 --> 00:22:38,910
I'm a firm believer that are

758
00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:40,940
you getting the very best

759
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:43,640
testing alfalfa out there doing

760
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:44,440
that?

761
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:45,759
Probably not. That's the

762
00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:46,779
argument always out there.

763
00:22:47,059 --> 00:22:48,099
You know, are you missing out

764
00:22:48,099 --> 00:22:48,899
on,

765
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,380
you know, 10 more points of

766
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:51,299
relative feed value?

767
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:53,430
Maybe.

768
00:22:54,029 --> 00:22:55,549
But most of the time when you're

769
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:57,309
harvesting alfalfa, it comes

770
00:22:57,309 --> 00:22:59,049
down to a management issue or a

771
00:22:59,049 --> 00:23:01,069
weather issue of what you did

772
00:23:01,069 --> 00:23:03,230
creates the issue with the

773
00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:04,029
quality, right?

774
00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:05,859
Timing and all that.

775
00:23:06,019 --> 00:23:06,819
So I

776
00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:08,170
would rather have a plant that's

777
00:23:08,170 --> 00:23:09,750
really hardy for my area

778
00:23:10,059 --> 00:23:13,519
and just stays in and grows in

779
00:23:13,769 --> 00:23:16,019
its environment better than

780
00:23:16,019 --> 00:23:17,539
these racehorse type varieties

781
00:23:17,539 --> 00:23:18,880
that in three years,

782
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,599
there's just no stand left.

783
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,200
So when you consider selecting

784
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,359
or when

785
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:28,000
you've taken this approach of

786
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,279
keeping the oldest alfalfa and

787
00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:31,079
it was also

788
00:23:31,609 --> 00:23:33,009
the approach utilized by your

789
00:23:33,009 --> 00:23:34,569
predecessor, how old alfalfa

790
00:23:34,569 --> 00:23:36,109
fields and stands do you have at

791
00:23:36,109 --> 00:23:36,909
this point?

792
00:23:37,869 --> 00:23:38,669
How long are you able to

793
00:23:38,609 --> 00:23:39,409
maintain them?

794
00:23:41,650 --> 00:23:45,000
He would leave fields in 10 to

795
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,799
12 years,

796
00:23:47,109 --> 00:23:48,109
his alfalfa seed fields.

797
00:23:48,289 --> 00:23:51,009
The thinner they are, it

798
00:23:51,670 --> 00:23:53,609
would still produce well,

799
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,660
and then you're rotating it out.

800
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,920
You're probably getting a

801
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,150
certain root type that's going

802
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:03,950
to

803
00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:06,109
last longer, is my assumption.

804
00:24:07,609 --> 00:24:08,869
branch types might be going

805
00:24:08,869 --> 00:24:09,669
away,

806
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:11,099
and that more tap roots are

807
00:24:11,099 --> 00:24:11,899
staying.

808
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,430
That's just my assumption.

809
00:24:15,259 --> 00:24:16,059
But,

810
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,440
you know, as we planted those,

811
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,500
you know, into forage

812
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:20,299
production,

813
00:24:21,089 --> 00:24:22,970
they weren't, I did a nine way

814
00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:25,450
study on a field one year, and I

815
00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:26,970
had some really expensive

816
00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:28,250
varieties all the way down to

817
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:29,470
this variety from the neighbor

818
00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:30,829
at the time, I didn't own it

819
00:24:30,829 --> 00:24:31,629
yet.

820
00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:33,069
And it,

821
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,259
it was the number three on the

822
00:24:36,259 --> 00:24:38,759
first year on yield and quality.

823
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,579
And then it was the number two.

824
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,619
And then it was number one

825
00:24:41,619 --> 00:24:42,419
through,

826
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:43,559
you know, so on the third year

827
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:44,640
was number one, and the fourth

828
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,019
and fifth year is number one,

829
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:47,259
the one,

830
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,640
the two varieties that were

831
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,240
number one, two on the first

832
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,039
year,

833
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,579
the one variety had to take out

834
00:24:53,579 --> 00:24:54,379
on the third year,

835
00:24:54,779 --> 00:24:56,119
while they both got taken out on

836
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:56,919
the third year,

837
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,519
the one variety was so bad,

838
00:24:59,299 --> 00:25:01,130
you you could find a plant out

839
00:25:01,130 --> 00:25:02,089
there that was the number one

840
00:25:02,089 --> 00:25:02,889
the first year.

841
00:25:02,690 --> 00:25:03,490
So

842
00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:04,700
it's just kind of like a

843
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:05,500
racehorse.

844
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:06,740
And so I

845
00:25:07,049 --> 00:25:08,170
think it's from keeping those

846
00:25:08,170 --> 00:25:10,130
fields in longer, all those

847
00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:11,549
disease plants are gone now.

848
00:25:11,869 --> 00:25:13,269
Anything that was susceptible to

849
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:16,589
those root diseases has weeded

850
00:25:16,589 --> 00:25:17,450
themselves out.

851
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:20,839
And so you're just constantly

852
00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:22,930
making a hardier and hardier

853
00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:24,670
variety for my area.

854
00:25:25,170 --> 00:25:26,609
I don't think it would work that

855
00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:29,009
great in everywhere, but for my

856
00:25:29,009 --> 00:25:30,670
area and my disease pressure,

857
00:25:30,809 --> 00:25:31,609
it's working.

858
00:25:32,049 --> 00:25:33,450
Well, the same practice, the

859
00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:34,630
same approach would work in

860
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:36,190
developing those local

861
00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:36,990
adaptations.

862
00:25:37,289 --> 00:25:38,089
Yes.

863
00:25:38,349 --> 00:25:39,490
And that's where I think it's

864
00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:41,349
important for people to look at

865
00:25:41,349 --> 00:25:43,150
seed production in their area on

866
00:25:43,559 --> 00:25:44,440
these open varieties

867
00:25:44,779 --> 00:25:47,519
and to get a hardy

868
00:25:47,869 --> 00:25:49,670
variety that works in that area.

869
00:25:49,730 --> 00:25:51,799
And I think that's what we are

870
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:52,859
missing in

871
00:25:53,329 --> 00:25:54,630
a lot of this seed production.

872
00:25:54,849 --> 00:25:56,069
You know, grass is bred

873
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:58,049
normally in certain areas.

874
00:25:58,210 --> 00:25:59,150
Grass seed and

875
00:25:59,460 --> 00:26:01,160
alfalfa seed production has its

876
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,779
certain areas because it's very

877
00:26:02,779 --> 00:26:03,779
best for those areas.

878
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:04,720
Well,

879
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,119
can we produce it in other

880
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,919
areas?

881
00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:08,200
Yeah, your yields might be less,

882
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:09,900
but are we getting a more

883
00:26:10,339 --> 00:26:12,420
locally adept variety that would

884
00:26:12,670 --> 00:26:14,250
still yield well,

885
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,039
produce well,

886
00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:18,140
and knowing that it's going to

887
00:26:18,140 --> 00:26:20,099
be better for that environment?

888
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:21,980
Well, what you just said is

889
00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:23,400
quite interesting, Brad, because

890
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,279
the reason grasses are grown in

891
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:26,160
a certain area

892
00:26:26,769 --> 00:26:28,309
And the reason alfalfa seed is

893
00:26:28,309 --> 00:26:29,589
grown in a certain area or for

894
00:26:29,589 --> 00:26:30,470
any of these different crops,

895
00:26:30,569 --> 00:26:32,130
they're grown in areas where

896
00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:32,930
from

897
00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:34,819
an environmental perspective, a

898
00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:36,079
climate perspective, they have

899
00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:37,079
the lowest disease

900
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:38,259
susceptibility possible.

901
00:26:38,380 --> 00:26:39,700
They're very dry environments

902
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,339
that are conducive to

903
00:26:42,589 --> 00:26:45,150
seed drying down and not getting

904
00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:46,549
moldy, not having all kinds of

905
00:26:46,549 --> 00:26:47,349
diseases.

906
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,420
And what you're suggesting is

907
00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:50,220
that

908
00:26:50,049 --> 00:26:51,170
now that's great for seed

909
00:26:51,170 --> 00:26:52,569
production, but it might not be

910
00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:54,009
so great for the actual value of

911
00:26:54,009 --> 00:26:55,130
the crop once it gets planted.

912
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,980
into soil that's a thousand

913
00:26:56,980 --> 00:26:57,779
miles away.

914
00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:00,859
Yeah, that's that is that's my

915
00:27:00,859 --> 00:27:01,659
theory.

916
00:27:02,970 --> 00:27:04,609
Now, you know, maybe there's a

917
00:27:04,609 --> 00:27:06,049
lot of haters out there for that

918
00:27:06,049 --> 00:27:07,589
theory, but I just really I

919
00:27:07,589 --> 00:27:08,690
would rather see seed

920
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:11,109
that's adept and is going to

921
00:27:11,109 --> 00:27:13,390
produce well for a local region.

922
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:15,960
And that takes away my business.

923
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,279
Right. But it's for a local

924
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:18,079
region

925
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:19,200
because

926
00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:21,619
it might work better for the

927
00:27:21,619 --> 00:27:23,160
long term. Now in cover crop

928
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,339
production, I can see

929
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,079
maybe that's not, you know,

930
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,259
you're just on that one year

931
00:27:27,259 --> 00:27:29,319
deal and you're in and out, but

932
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:30,119
you

933
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:31,380
look at like grasses and

934
00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:32,519
alfalfas, the stuff that's

935
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:33,460
gonna, that's more expensive,

936
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:34,579
stays in long time.

937
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:37,160
Like, why aren't we focusing on

938
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:37,960
stuff that's,

939
00:27:38,619 --> 00:27:39,759
you know, it's already primed

940
00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:40,559
for that biology.

941
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,779
You're not spraying it, you

942
00:27:42,779 --> 00:27:43,579
know,

943
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:45,019
kill those things.

944
00:27:45,180 --> 00:27:45,980
And,

945
00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:47,140
you know, it's just primed for

946
00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:47,940
your biology.

947
00:27:49,089 --> 00:27:51,549
It makes sense to me to focus on

948
00:27:51,549 --> 00:27:52,589
regional seed production.

949
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:54,470
Well, in the case of cover

950
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:55,269
crops,

951
00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:55,970
I

952
00:27:57,220 --> 00:27:59,039
remember a story, I certainly

953
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:00,420
had it off recording, I think I

954
00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:01,299
might have had it with Keith

955
00:28:01,299 --> 00:28:03,220
Burns here on the podcast as

956
00:28:03,220 --> 00:28:04,220
well, if I remember correctly,

957
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:05,119
where he

958
00:28:05,470 --> 00:28:08,170
spoke about the speed of

959
00:28:08,509 --> 00:28:10,670
genetic adaptation, I think in a

960
00:28:10,670 --> 00:28:13,009
four -year environment where a

961
00:28:13,769 --> 00:28:15,210
southern rye

962
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,779
was brought to a more northern

963
00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:19,240
environment and in a period of

964
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,319
four years had adapted to where

965
00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:22,880
it no longer had the spring

966
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,019
flush of growth.

967
00:28:24,619 --> 00:28:26,359
similar to what it had had in

968
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:27,159
the south.

969
00:28:27,849 --> 00:28:29,549
And I

970
00:28:30,150 --> 00:28:31,410
can see this working in both

971
00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:32,789
directions, where you can have

972
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:35,069
varieties that are more adapted

973
00:28:35,069 --> 00:28:36,069
to southern or northern

974
00:28:36,069 --> 00:28:36,869
latitudes,

975
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:38,509
and you can either get more

976
00:28:38,509 --> 00:28:39,930
rapid growth in the fall or

977
00:28:39,930 --> 00:28:41,029
slower growth in the spring.

978
00:28:41,609 --> 00:28:42,630
And you can actually use that to

979
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:43,910
your advantage from a cover crop

980
00:28:43,910 --> 00:28:44,710
perspective,

981
00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:46,349
but perhaps not from an actual

982
00:28:46,349 --> 00:28:47,589
cropping and seed production

983
00:28:47,589 --> 00:28:48,769
harvest perspective.

984
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:50,839
Yeah.

985
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:51,700
So

986
00:28:51,829 --> 00:28:53,769
with that thinking about you

987
00:28:53,769 --> 00:28:55,150
saying that, and it just pops up

988
00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:55,950
into my head,

989
00:28:56,289 --> 00:28:57,710
this is the second year in a row

990
00:28:57,710 --> 00:28:58,529
that we've had

991
00:28:59,579 --> 00:29:01,900
spring oats in our cover crop

992
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:02,740
mix come

993
00:29:03,369 --> 00:29:04,509
up the next spring

994
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,779
into, you know, other crops that

995
00:29:07,779 --> 00:29:08,900
I'm trying to produce for seed.

996
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,000
So,

997
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,960
and they're not like new plants,

998
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:14,140
they survived and then went to

999
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:14,940
seed.

1000
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:16,399
So are

1001
00:29:17,289 --> 00:29:18,470
we, I should have, I should

1002
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:19,630
probably like try to keep that,

1003
00:29:19,710 --> 00:29:21,490
see if Am I slowly like

1004
00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:23,730
producing a winter hardy oat?

1005
00:29:23,849 --> 00:29:24,649
I don't know.

1006
00:29:25,099 --> 00:29:25,899
It's like,

1007
00:29:26,589 --> 00:29:27,389
how is this

1008
00:29:27,859 --> 00:29:30,319
slowly, you know, making a

1009
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:31,519
winter hardy oat and maybe the

1010
00:29:31,519 --> 00:29:33,279
winter wasn't as hard, but we

1011
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:34,380
still got down to zero,

1012
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:37,440
but they didn't freeze out.

1013
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,519
And they're in,

1014
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,279
you know, I planted a new crop

1015
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:41,200
and then they're still there.

1016
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:42,299
They didn't, they didn't die

1017
00:29:42,299 --> 00:29:43,200
like they should have.

1018
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:44,750
So I

1019
00:29:45,019 --> 00:29:47,079
think you can take stuff that

1020
00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:49,079
isn't supposed to do as well and

1021
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:49,879
it can

1022
00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:51,029
adapt.

1023
00:29:51,549 --> 00:29:53,589
Is it going to be the best and

1024
00:29:53,589 --> 00:29:54,809
always work every year?

1025
00:29:54,930 --> 00:29:55,730
I don't know.

1026
00:29:56,529 --> 00:29:59,019
But I think it can get used to

1027
00:29:59,019 --> 00:30:00,259
that environment and you can

1028
00:30:00,259 --> 00:30:01,059
start

1029
00:30:01,059 --> 00:30:02,319
feeding a better and better,

1030
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:03,960
you

1031
00:30:04,609 --> 00:30:06,230
know, hearty and heartier plant.

1032
00:30:07,049 --> 00:30:08,569
Well, one of the one of the

1033
00:30:08,569 --> 00:30:09,549
aspects that I really

1034
00:30:09,549 --> 00:30:12,130
appreciated about the rye

1035
00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:13,829
adaptation story that Keith

1036
00:30:13,829 --> 00:30:14,930
shared and the collard

1037
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:16,490
adaptation story that you just

1038
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:17,289
shared

1039
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:19,339
is the speed at which it

1040
00:30:19,339 --> 00:30:20,139
happens.

1041
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:21,839
It happens so rapidly.

1042
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:22,980
In the case of the rye, it

1043
00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:24,160
happened in four generations.

1044
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:25,480
In the case of collards, it

1045
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,700
happened in two generations.

1046
00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:28,950
And

1047
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:29,500
somehow,

1048
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,900
I think many of us have,

1049
00:30:33,069 --> 00:30:35,130
because we no longer do it,

1050
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:36,430
because we're no longer as

1051
00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:37,609
closely associated with seed

1052
00:30:37,609 --> 00:30:38,409
production,

1053
00:30:38,779 --> 00:30:39,980
many of us have this kind of

1054
00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:42,500
intrigue that producing seed is

1055
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:44,180
somehow requires some special

1056
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:45,579
effort, some special energy,

1057
00:30:46,259 --> 00:30:48,960
and that saving our own seed and

1058
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,150
replanting in the future is a

1059
00:30:51,150 --> 00:30:52,589
very long payback window.

1060
00:30:52,750 --> 00:30:54,410
It's going to take years,

1061
00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:56,349
a decade or longer perhaps, in

1062
00:30:56,349 --> 00:30:57,769
order to see a crop response.

1063
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:00,700
But that in fact is not what I'm

1064
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:01,859
observing on many different

1065
00:31:01,859 --> 00:31:03,380
crops and environments, that the

1066
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:05,359
changed epigenetic expression

1067
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:07,099
actually happens surprisingly

1068
00:31:07,099 --> 00:31:07,899
rapidly.

1069
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,119
Yeah, I don't, I think, as

1070
00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:12,559
humans, we like to

1071
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,519
think that we're, we can trick

1072
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:17,079
nature more than we really can.

1073
00:31:18,089 --> 00:31:18,889
It

1074
00:31:19,569 --> 00:31:21,329
all survived this long on its

1075
00:31:21,329 --> 00:31:22,129
own.

1076
00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:23,130
And I look at that, you know,

1077
00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:23,950
that collar story,

1078
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:26,039
it got nothing.

1079
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:27,819
And it produced

1080
00:31:28,420 --> 00:31:30,640
over 1000 pounds an acre more

1081
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,640
than than when people try to

1082
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,440
produce it.

1083
00:31:34,089 --> 00:31:36,450
So you missed adding that in the

1084
00:31:36,450 --> 00:31:37,250
story.

1085
00:31:37,529 --> 00:31:38,329
Yeah. So

1086
00:31:38,769 --> 00:31:39,569
where,

1087
00:31:40,819 --> 00:31:43,119
And like, how can you ever, you

1088
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:44,740
know, recreate that?

1089
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:46,299
I don't know, because you try

1090
00:31:46,299 --> 00:31:47,480
and we get,

1091
00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:49,970
you know, I know people raising

1092
00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:52,660
that variety, like the 1800 to

1093
00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:54,890
2000 pounds, and it did right at

1094
00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:56,210
3000 pounds clean.

1095
00:31:57,529 --> 00:31:58,329
And

1096
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:00,059
it was like a four acre plot.

1097
00:32:00,890 --> 00:32:01,690
So I

1098
00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:03,220
mean, just insane.

1099
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,279
And,

1100
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:06,349
you know, I guess I could try to

1101
00:32:06,349 --> 00:32:07,849
raise it and see, see what I

1102
00:32:07,849 --> 00:32:08,649
could get

1103
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,680
seed wise, but

1104
00:32:10,059 --> 00:32:11,180
I don't want to do that.

1105
00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:12,220
Right. So

1106
00:32:12,569 --> 00:32:14,569
What is interesting is that

1107
00:32:14,569 --> 00:32:17,470
there in the forage collard you

1108
00:32:17,470 --> 00:32:18,769
have a crop

1109
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,059
that the growth cycle is adapted

1110
00:32:23,059 --> 00:32:24,519
to your rainfall pattern.

1111
00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:28,159
Why

1112
00:32:29,809 --> 00:32:30,650
are you growing irrigated

1113
00:32:30,650 --> 00:32:31,450
alfalfa again?

1114
00:32:31,819 --> 00:32:32,619
Seems to me you should be

1115
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:33,579
growing dryland collards.

1116
00:32:36,309 --> 00:32:37,109
Yeah, if you could.

1117
00:32:37,230 --> 00:32:38,029
I

1118
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,940
just don't know how I would

1119
00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:41,299
create that.

1120
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:42,910
But yeah, maybe maybe you put

1121
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:44,089
the seed out and it would just

1122
00:32:44,089 --> 00:32:46,109
go. And you know that that takes

1123
00:32:46,109 --> 00:32:48,549
another level of guts, I guess.

1124
00:32:51,019 --> 00:32:52,220
Well, it takes a lower

1125
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:53,779
opportunity cost, probably.

1126
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:55,399
Yeah. Yeah.

1127
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:56,859
And maybe I could find some land

1128
00:32:56,859 --> 00:32:57,720
and try it on it.

1129
00:32:59,579 --> 00:33:00,819
But yeah, that's that that was

1130
00:33:00,819 --> 00:33:01,619
our experience.

1131
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,259
But what's interesting to me,

1132
00:33:03,259 --> 00:33:04,059
what you're describing,

1133
00:33:04,809 --> 00:33:05,670
I

1134
00:33:06,339 --> 00:33:07,539
don't have a ton of experience

1135
00:33:07,539 --> 00:33:08,759
growing either collards or

1136
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:10,259
turnips, but they're both winter

1137
00:33:11,309 --> 00:33:13,569
winter annuals, and wouldn't the

1138
00:33:13,569 --> 00:33:15,230
rainfall pattern that matches to

1139
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:16,750
the collards also be similar to

1140
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:18,089
the turnips? Will the turnips

1141
00:33:18,089 --> 00:33:19,670
have a higher water requirement

1142
00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:20,490
in the spring when they're

1143
00:33:20,490 --> 00:33:21,289
bulbing?

1144
00:33:22,150 --> 00:33:23,450
Yeah, they have a higher water

1145
00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:25,069
requirement, and then they just

1146
00:33:25,069 --> 00:33:25,869
need a little bit.

1147
00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:29,230
That's why I was so surprised at

1148
00:33:29,230 --> 00:33:31,049
the yield and the health of

1149
00:33:31,049 --> 00:33:31,849
those

1150
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,950
collards getting no

1151
00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:36,049
rain, really. I mean, there was

1152
00:33:36,049 --> 00:33:37,789
a few scattered showers in that

1153
00:33:38,009 --> 00:33:40,880
May to end of June when

1154
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:42,019
they were ready.

1155
00:33:44,849 --> 00:33:46,730
from what I could see is they

1156
00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:47,529
got,

1157
00:33:47,779 --> 00:33:49,849
they seeded down in like

1158
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:52,680
August time with rains, because

1159
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,500
the seed fell out.

1160
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:55,220
And then we, we got some timely

1161
00:33:55,220 --> 00:33:56,960
August rains when they came back

1162
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,019
up again, watching them.

1163
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:00,339
And so they, they were planted

1164
00:34:00,339 --> 00:34:02,119
earlier than we typically seed

1165
00:34:02,119 --> 00:34:02,919
them.

1166
00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:06,880
And their, their roots were

1167
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:08,460
so big

1168
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:09,980
going into,

1169
00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:12,059
you know, coming into the

1170
00:34:12,059 --> 00:34:12,860
summer,

1171
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,099
because I think because they

1172
00:34:14,099 --> 00:34:14,900
seeded earlier,

1173
00:34:15,269 --> 00:34:16,230
and that's something that,

1174
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:17,929
You know, we probably ought to

1175
00:34:17,929 --> 00:34:19,269
try now turnips, you can't do

1176
00:34:19,269 --> 00:34:20,650
that per se, because that bowl

1177
00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:21,670
will get too big, and then it'll

1178
00:34:21,670 --> 00:34:22,470
pop in the

1179
00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:24,409
in the wintertime.

1180
00:34:25,170 --> 00:34:26,769
And then you have problems with

1181
00:34:26,769 --> 00:34:27,570
that.

1182
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:28,929
But where collard is more of a

1183
00:34:28,929 --> 00:34:29,869
is that root,

1184
00:34:31,539 --> 00:34:32,880
maybe it's just getting an

1185
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,000
earlier planting timing.

1186
00:34:34,610 --> 00:34:37,869
and then it can get that deeper

1187
00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:40,800
taproot going where you don't

1188
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,600
have to

1189
00:34:41,889 --> 00:34:42,769
irrigate it.

1190
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,840
That was one of the key concepts

1191
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,920
of the system of root

1192
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,619
intensification and the various

1193
00:34:48,619 --> 00:34:50,340
methods and the pioneering work

1194
00:34:50,340 --> 00:34:51,940
that has been done on growing

1195
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:54,280
larger yields of small grains is

1196
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,080
planting them

1197
00:34:55,579 --> 00:34:56,860
quite a bit earlier where

1198
00:34:56,860 --> 00:34:57,660
they're now

1199
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:58,960
Well, depending on which

1200
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:59,980
latitude and region, of course,

1201
00:35:00,019 --> 00:35:00,820
there's a lot of variability,

1202
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,199
but there's experimentation with

1203
00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:03,420
planting them as early as mid

1204
00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:04,980
-July to develop this

1205
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:07,280
very robust root system and a

1206
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,239
large crown that just emerges

1207
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,980
from spring dormancy and is off

1208
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:11,780
to the races.

1209
00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:14,780
And probably at a lighter

1210
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:15,580
planting rate?

1211
00:35:16,429 --> 00:35:17,230
Yes.

1212
00:35:17,420 --> 00:35:18,400
Yes. A much lighter planting

1213
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,360
rate. I've planted early, a

1214
00:35:20,769 --> 00:35:21,769
couple of years ago, I planted

1215
00:35:21,769 --> 00:35:22,590
early on

1216
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:24,980
some winter wheat and I

1217
00:35:25,579 --> 00:35:26,380
actually

1218
00:35:26,789 --> 00:35:28,969
it, it died. A lot of it lodged

1219
00:35:28,969 --> 00:35:30,969
and died because it got so thick

1220
00:35:30,969 --> 00:35:31,769
in the spring,

1221
00:35:32,610 --> 00:35:34,170
then it couldn't, it just was

1222
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:35,150
just too thick.

1223
00:35:35,309 --> 00:35:36,650
And so that's what my thought

1224
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:37,829
was after that experience was

1225
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:39,670
like, man, if we planted thinner

1226
00:35:39,849 --> 00:35:41,110
early like that,

1227
00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:42,960
what would it do?

1228
00:35:44,179 --> 00:35:45,739
I remember, I think, uh,

1229
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,559
this is just me stretching my

1230
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:48,579
memory. This might've been from

1231
00:35:48,579 --> 00:35:49,760
the Mark Bonfils method.

1232
00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:50,900
It might've been from system of

1233
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:51,739
root intensification.

1234
00:35:51,739 --> 00:35:52,539
And I,

1235
00:35:53,579 --> 00:35:54,760
I'm even hesitant to mention, I

1236
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:55,780
should go back and dig it up

1237
00:35:55,780 --> 00:35:56,580
again.

1238
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:57,019
But for some reason, I'm

1239
00:35:57,019 --> 00:35:58,119
thinking that when they were

1240
00:35:58,119 --> 00:35:59,300
planting in mid -July,

1241
00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:01,340
and this was on winter wheat,

1242
00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:03,260
they were planting it at like 15

1243
00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:04,800
,000 to 18 ,000 population,

1244
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:06,310
which is

1245
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,679
row spacing was 18

1246
00:36:10,820 --> 00:36:12,300
inches and spacing in the row at

1247
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:13,360
12 inches, if I recall

1248
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,440
correctly. It's like they're

1249
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,219
planting it almost closer to a

1250
00:36:16,219 --> 00:36:17,500
corn crop than we commonly do a

1251
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:18,300
small grain.

1252
00:36:18,980 --> 00:36:19,780
That's crazy.

1253
00:36:21,110 --> 00:36:22,210
Yeah, that is a

1254
00:36:23,130 --> 00:36:24,230
corn crop spacing.

1255
00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:25,550
Yeah.

1256
00:36:24,969 --> 00:36:26,769
And like we planted it probably

1257
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:28,849
125 pounds per acre.

1258
00:36:29,059 --> 00:36:30,559
you know, so yeah, I don't know

1259
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:32,039
that's all you know, lots of

1260
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:32,840
seeds

1261
00:36:32,929 --> 00:36:34,090
So yeah,

1262
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,039
I could I could see that because

1263
00:36:36,039 --> 00:36:36,840
then you get I

1264
00:36:37,139 --> 00:36:38,539
mean that thing when we did it

1265
00:36:38,539 --> 00:36:41,480
so early we plant it and We were

1266
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,760
there planting a cover crop.

1267
00:36:43,099 --> 00:36:44,260
So we're like it was just a

1268
00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:45,400
corners of these pivots I was

1269
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,200
like, ah, let's just

1270
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:47,869
get the corners planted while

1271
00:36:47,869 --> 00:36:48,730
we're there with the equipment

1272
00:36:48,730 --> 00:36:49,530
and

1273
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:50,860
then it got so thick

1274
00:36:51,179 --> 00:36:52,579
There was no weeds that was

1275
00:36:52,579 --> 00:36:54,000
definitely it was never had to

1276
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,800
use a herbicide,

1277
00:36:55,449 --> 00:36:57,989
but it was so thick it just

1278
00:36:57,989 --> 00:36:58,789
ended up

1279
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:00,119
just melt away.

1280
00:37:03,059 --> 00:37:04,199
All right. So you

1281
00:37:05,179 --> 00:37:06,539
had this awesome collar story

1282
00:37:06,539 --> 00:37:08,400
and you also almost missed

1283
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,440
telling us the best part.

1284
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:10,739
And so now I'm going to ask you

1285
00:37:10,739 --> 00:37:12,019
the question of what, what other

1286
00:37:12,019 --> 00:37:13,219
great, uh,

1287
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,639
observations or experiences have

1288
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:17,139
you had that surprised you or

1289
00:37:17,139 --> 00:37:17,940
intrigued you?

1290
00:37:24,940 --> 00:37:26,099
Nothing's coming to the top of

1291
00:37:26,099 --> 00:37:27,659
my head. Let me think on that

1292
00:37:27,659 --> 00:37:28,760
as, as we talk,

1293
00:37:29,210 --> 00:37:30,309
I'm sure there's, there's other

1294
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,119
things that'll pop up.

1295
00:37:33,619 --> 00:37:34,800
The color story is the one

1296
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,199
that's been most impressive to

1297
00:37:36,199 --> 00:37:37,260
me by far.

1298
00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:39,289
Yeah, that's a great story.

1299
00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:40,510
It's a great, it's a great

1300
00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:41,690
example for us to learn from.

1301
00:37:42,590 --> 00:37:44,050
Right. And a great example, I

1302
00:37:44,050 --> 00:37:45,230
think a great example of

1303
00:37:45,579 --> 00:37:46,380
that.

1304
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:47,760
We really still don't know that

1305
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,760
much and we still have a lot to

1306
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,639
learn to try to.

1307
00:37:52,179 --> 00:37:52,980
You

1308
00:37:53,050 --> 00:37:54,449
know what? I think a major part

1309
00:37:54,449 --> 00:37:55,550
of the reason is why we don't

1310
00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:56,350
know that much.

1311
00:37:56,780 --> 00:37:58,219
It's because so much of what we

1312
00:37:58,219 --> 00:37:59,360
think we know is false.

1313
00:38:01,309 --> 00:38:02,110
Yeah.

1314
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,699
There's actually a whole lot of

1315
00:38:03,699 --> 00:38:05,519
things that if we think if we

1316
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:07,159
had less information or

1317
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,599
not listen, if we had less

1318
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:11,300
training, less knowledge and we

1319
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:12,659
just paid more attention and we

1320
00:38:12,659 --> 00:38:14,039
were more observant in some way,

1321
00:38:14,059 --> 00:38:14,980
we would be better off.

1322
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,699
Yeah. I really like when Gabe

1323
00:38:17,699 --> 00:38:18,500
Brown

1324
00:38:18,869 --> 00:38:19,670
says,

1325
00:38:19,929 --> 00:38:20,869
you know, we got to change the

1326
00:38:20,869 --> 00:38:21,769
way we see things

1327
00:38:22,949 --> 00:38:25,070
because our mind does get in the

1328
00:38:25,070 --> 00:38:27,130
way. of this is what we've

1329
00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:28,329
always done and so this is

1330
00:38:28,329 --> 00:38:29,130
what's right.

1331
00:38:30,010 --> 00:38:31,969
And in opening our mind to

1332
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:34,659
learning by observation and

1333
00:38:34,909 --> 00:38:36,250
seeing it different,

1334
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:38,900
I think that's really key in

1335
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:39,700
agriculture,

1336
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,780
no matter what agriculture

1337
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:42,719
you're in, is keeping an open

1338
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:43,519
mind

1339
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:45,960
and going out and spending time

1340
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,039
to see it different

1341
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:49,440
and challenging,

1342
00:38:50,889 --> 00:38:51,989
like, you know, like you always

1343
00:38:51,989 --> 00:38:53,170
say, challenge the status quo,

1344
00:38:54,099 --> 00:38:54,900
but challenging

1345
00:38:55,610 --> 00:38:58,119
what you believe is right.

1346
00:38:59,389 --> 00:39:00,190
And,

1347
00:39:00,469 --> 00:39:01,269
you know,

1348
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,539
I really feel like we can learn

1349
00:39:04,539 --> 00:39:05,860
so much more if we just

1350
00:39:06,389 --> 00:39:08,710
take the time to go and see.

1351
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,760
I think one of the earliest

1352
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,400
versions of that quote that I

1353
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,099
heard was from Kerry Reams back

1354
00:39:17,099 --> 00:39:18,920
in the 1970s. And no, I didn't

1355
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,380
hear Kerry say that in the 70s,

1356
00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:21,659
but it was written down by many

1357
00:39:21,659 --> 00:39:22,460
of his students.

1358
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:24,239
His his mantra that he kept

1359
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,920
repeating over and over was,

1360
00:39:26,389 --> 00:39:27,710
see what you look at.

1361
00:39:28,889 --> 00:39:31,929
And the same the same essence in

1362
00:39:31,929 --> 00:39:32,730
that

1363
00:39:32,980 --> 00:39:34,940
we look at things, but we don't

1364
00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:35,820
connect the dots.

1365
00:39:35,980 --> 00:39:37,579
And so I think seeing is

1366
00:39:39,010 --> 00:39:41,550
it's observing carefully, but

1367
00:39:41,550 --> 00:39:42,350
also,

1368
00:39:43,070 --> 00:39:45,269
um, then thinking about our

1369
00:39:45,269 --> 00:39:46,789
observations and questioning our

1370
00:39:46,789 --> 00:39:49,050
observations and, and trying to

1371
00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:50,750
correlate them to other pieces

1372
00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:51,989
of information, understanding

1373
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:52,949
what's really happening, going

1374
00:39:52,949 --> 00:39:54,710
on. So observation is,

1375
00:39:55,659 --> 00:39:57,460
is partially visual, but it's

1376
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,360
also partially then the, the

1377
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,659
intellectual exercise of

1378
00:40:01,659 --> 00:40:02,460
thinking

1379
00:40:02,650 --> 00:40:04,369
and just questioning what

1380
00:40:04,369 --> 00:40:05,210
exactly it is that we're

1381
00:40:05,210 --> 00:40:06,510
observing and how it connects.

1382
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:08,829
Yeah, and I really like,

1383
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:10,700
because

1384
00:40:10,699 --> 00:40:12,820
maybe it's my personality, but I

1385
00:40:12,820 --> 00:40:14,739
can do that somewhat and get

1386
00:40:15,369 --> 00:40:16,769
a little bit of that

1387
00:40:16,769 --> 00:40:17,570
observation.

1388
00:40:18,190 --> 00:40:18,990
But when I

1389
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,659
really feel like I gain more is

1390
00:40:22,659 --> 00:40:25,360
when multiple people go and

1391
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,119
observe something and then we

1392
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:28,460
can have a discussion about it.

1393
00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:32,989
It's that you feed on each other

1394
00:40:32,989 --> 00:40:34,650
and then somebody says something

1395
00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:36,429
and it really gets your brain

1396
00:40:36,429 --> 00:40:37,230
thinking.

1397
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:39,710
With my brothers, we can have

1398
00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:41,409
these conversations and then

1399
00:40:41,409 --> 00:40:42,210
it's like, oh,

1400
00:40:42,269 --> 00:40:44,130
you just said something and I

1401
00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:46,170
saw that there and then you can

1402
00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:46,970
really build on it.

1403
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:47,830
I think

1404
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:49,030
As humans, we need that

1405
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:49,830
community.

1406
00:40:50,940 --> 00:40:52,280
And that's why I like these

1407
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,900
podcasts, because it stirs

1408
00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:56,739
thought. And then you can relate

1409
00:40:56,739 --> 00:40:57,559
it back to things that you

1410
00:40:57,559 --> 00:40:58,500
observed in the field.

1411
00:40:59,170 --> 00:41:00,150
And then you can really start

1412
00:41:00,150 --> 00:41:00,950
building

1413
00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:03,860
ways to change or try new

1414
00:41:03,860 --> 00:41:04,660
things.

1415
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:06,480
But it's really important to

1416
00:41:06,989 --> 00:41:08,389
try new things, too.

1417
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:10,280
I think one thing my dad

1418
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,159
instilled in us, a saying he

1419
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:12,960
always had was,

1420
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:14,960
seed doesn't grow in a bag.

1421
00:41:15,650 --> 00:41:16,889
Go try something different.

1422
00:41:17,230 --> 00:41:18,170
Try something new.

1423
00:41:18,699 --> 00:41:20,280
And so we need to observe and

1424
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,539
then we need to go make change

1425
00:41:21,539 --> 00:41:23,340
and try it and try to fail.

1426
00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:24,809
Every year you should try to

1427
00:41:24,809 --> 00:41:25,610
fail at something.

1428
00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:31,420
Well, without trying to fail,

1429
00:41:31,619 --> 00:41:32,860
without attempting to make

1430
00:41:32,860 --> 00:41:33,679
mistakes, you know,

1431
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,920
I've had this conversation,

1432
00:41:36,940 --> 00:41:38,159
maybe not on the podcast.

1433
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:39,180
I

1434
00:41:38,949 --> 00:41:40,170
struggle to remember sometimes

1435
00:41:40,170 --> 00:41:40,970
where I've had these

1436
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:41,530
discussions. But

1437
00:41:42,099 --> 00:41:43,239
when

1438
00:41:43,769 --> 00:41:44,789
we are when

1439
00:41:45,969 --> 00:41:47,449
we are children, we celebrate

1440
00:41:47,449 --> 00:41:49,150
our children making mistakes up

1441
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:50,110
to a certain age.

1442
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,480
You fall off a bike.

1443
00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:53,360
Hey,

1444
00:41:53,639 --> 00:41:54,440
I was

1445
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,480
we celebrate them.

1446
00:41:56,559 --> 00:41:57,539
We encourage them.

1447
00:41:58,469 --> 00:42:00,210
When is there learning to walk

1448
00:42:00,210 --> 00:42:01,690
as learning to ride a bike is

1449
00:42:01,690 --> 00:42:03,090
there learning to write whatever

1450
00:42:03,090 --> 00:42:04,809
it is through up to a certain

1451
00:42:04,809 --> 00:42:06,110
age is there learning there

1452
00:42:06,579 --> 00:42:08,530
constantly encouraged through

1453
00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:10,110
mistakes every

1454
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:12,050
time you fall off you get back

1455
00:42:12,050 --> 00:42:13,130
on you start over again

1456
00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:15,179
and then when you're ready.

1457
00:42:15,219 --> 00:42:16,019
adulthood,

1458
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,460
all of a sudden perfection is

1459
00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:18,260
expected.

1460
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:20,400
And now when you make a mistake,

1461
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:22,139
you get discouraged so

1462
00:42:22,139 --> 00:42:22,940
frequently.

1463
00:42:23,059 --> 00:42:24,579
Like, that was stupid.

1464
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:26,099
Why did you do that?

1465
00:42:26,769 --> 00:42:28,690
So there's this complete flip in

1466
00:42:28,690 --> 00:42:30,150
how we think about making

1467
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:31,170
mistakes as

1468
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:32,280
you approach adulthood.

1469
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:35,019
And if we kept more of

1470
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,519
that childhood encouragement,

1471
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:39,429
and encouraged each other to

1472
00:42:39,429 --> 00:42:40,690
make mistakes, to make more

1473
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:42,010
mistakes, to make them faster.

1474
00:42:42,190 --> 00:42:43,289
Huh, you fell off that bike.

1475
00:42:43,530 --> 00:42:44,409
Bet that was a rough landing.

1476
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:45,550
Let's get back on and try it

1477
00:42:45,550 --> 00:42:46,350
again.

1478
00:42:46,469 --> 00:42:47,309
Let's try something different.

1479
00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:48,429
If we had more of that

1480
00:42:48,429 --> 00:42:49,469
encouraging perspectives

1481
00:42:50,389 --> 00:42:52,989
in our ventures that we pursue

1482
00:42:52,989 --> 00:42:54,170
as adults, think of how the

1483
00:42:54,170 --> 00:42:55,250
world might be a different place

1484
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:56,530
from both a feeling perspective

1485
00:42:56,530 --> 00:42:58,170
and a productivity perspective.

1486
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:00,800
Oh, I think I think you're spot

1487
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,600
on.

1488
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:02,900
You know, it's interesting that

1489
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:05,920
I have six kids and I'm training

1490
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,720
my

1491
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:07,960
daughter,

1492
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:09,800
so my second oldest, to drive.

1493
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:12,389
She's taking driver's ed, but

1494
00:43:12,699 --> 00:43:16,000
I bought her a little VW bug,

1495
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,159
and it's a manual.

1496
00:43:17,420 --> 00:43:18,340
And so she's all nervous about

1497
00:43:18,340 --> 00:43:19,860
it. So I was teaching her how to

1498
00:43:19,860 --> 00:43:21,019
drive it last night.

1499
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:22,900
And she's

1500
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,559
definitely making mistakes.

1501
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:25,840
And

1502
00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:27,039
she's getting all nervous.

1503
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:28,239
And I'm like, no, you're great.

1504
00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:29,519
Everything's fine.

1505
00:43:29,659 --> 00:43:31,940
And really putting some use on

1506
00:43:31,940 --> 00:43:32,740
the vehicle.

1507
00:43:33,789 --> 00:43:36,110
And I'm totally happy about it,

1508
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:37,389
giving her lots of grace.

1509
00:43:38,659 --> 00:43:39,539
and patience.

1510
00:43:40,059 --> 00:43:41,500
And then, like you said, in

1511
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:42,980
adults, like if an adult was to

1512
00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:44,039
do that, you'd be like, what are

1513
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:44,840
you doing?

1514
00:43:45,389 --> 00:43:46,449
And, you

1515
00:43:47,179 --> 00:43:48,719
know, I think the

1516
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:50,130
world would be a completely

1517
00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:50,930
different

1518
00:43:51,179 --> 00:43:52,099
place.

1519
00:43:52,659 --> 00:43:53,800
And with my faith,

1520
00:43:54,659 --> 00:43:55,599
I feel like

1521
00:43:56,130 --> 00:43:57,550
our father in heaven

1522
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,900
views us the way we view our

1523
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:00,700
children.

1524
00:44:01,110 --> 00:44:02,949
Oh, I mean, he's just being

1525
00:44:02,949 --> 00:44:03,750
silly, you know.

1526
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:05,300
And there's a lot of grace

1527
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:06,100
involved,

1528
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:07,420
where as

1529
00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:09,389
adults, we are so critical on

1530
00:44:09,389 --> 00:44:10,190
each other.

1531
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:11,900
We're critical on the next

1532
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:13,739
farmer across the road,

1533
00:44:14,739 --> 00:44:15,619
when in reality, they just

1534
00:44:15,619 --> 00:44:17,880
haven't visualized and saw it

1535
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:18,680
different.

1536
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,699
But we're so critical on

1537
00:44:21,110 --> 00:44:22,909
the way their crops look, maybe

1538
00:44:22,909 --> 00:44:24,510
the way their borders look.

1539
00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:26,620
And

1540
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,699
at the end of the day,

1541
00:44:28,210 --> 00:44:29,449
they're still learning and it

1542
00:44:29,449 --> 00:44:30,250
doesn't matter.

1543
00:44:30,269 --> 00:44:32,250
We need to have more grace for

1544
00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:33,050
people.

1545
00:44:34,860 --> 00:44:35,660
Thank you, Brad.

1546
00:44:35,420 --> 00:44:36,579
That was very well said.

1547
00:44:39,019 --> 00:44:40,320
We need to have more grace for

1548
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,120
people,

1549
00:44:41,019 --> 00:44:41,900
including ourselves.

1550
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,320
Oh, and especially ourselves.

1551
00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:46,059
You look at suicide rates

1552
00:44:46,059 --> 00:44:48,219
amongst agriculture industry.

1553
00:44:49,130 --> 00:44:50,130
We need to have more grace.

1554
00:44:50,449 --> 00:44:52,070
And, you know, financial issues

1555
00:44:52,070 --> 00:44:53,530
definitely don't help that.

1556
00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:54,410
But

1557
00:44:55,329 --> 00:44:56,789
we all need to help each other a

1558
00:44:56,789 --> 00:44:57,590
little more.

1559
00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:00,349
You know, I find it interesting

1560
00:45:00,349 --> 00:45:01,530
that I

1561
00:45:05,139 --> 00:45:06,360
know I was about to frame this

1562
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,119
in the context of of other

1563
00:45:08,119 --> 00:45:09,460
cultures, but I don't don't

1564
00:45:09,460 --> 00:45:11,000
really have enough perspective

1565
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,519
to have an informed opinion

1566
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:13,320
there.

1567
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:13,620
But

1568
00:45:14,590 --> 00:45:15,909
the opposite of grace

1569
00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:20,110
is having judgment and being

1570
00:45:20,110 --> 00:45:21,730
judgmental about each other.

1571
00:45:22,179 --> 00:45:24,099
and oh my goodness does it seem

1572
00:45:24,099 --> 00:45:25,239
we ever excel on that.

1573
00:45:27,010 --> 00:45:28,849
Just look at social media and

1574
00:45:29,449 --> 00:45:32,449
that tells you where a people a

1575
00:45:32,449 --> 00:45:33,630
nation or people are

1576
00:45:34,110 --> 00:45:36,210
and it's that the first thing is

1577
00:45:36,210 --> 00:45:37,250
we see we

1578
00:45:38,010 --> 00:45:40,579
see the bad in everyone and if

1579
00:45:40,579 --> 00:45:41,900
we could change that if we could

1580
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,880
you know I saw a little short

1581
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,039
video and it was talking about

1582
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:47,059
this of if

1583
00:45:47,619 --> 00:45:48,980
you know somebody cuts you off

1584
00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:50,699
in traffic and the first thought

1585
00:45:50,699 --> 00:45:52,400
you had was oh they're

1586
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,059
you know, they probably have an

1587
00:45:54,059 --> 00:45:55,340
emergency and they've got to get

1588
00:45:55,340 --> 00:45:57,179
there before me and it's good

1589
00:45:57,179 --> 00:45:58,699
for them to do that versus,

1590
00:45:59,699 --> 00:46:00,880
oh my word, what a jerk.

1591
00:46:01,989 --> 00:46:02,789
You know,

1592
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:04,400
can we change the way we see?

1593
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:06,489
people and see their actions

1594
00:46:06,489 --> 00:46:07,949
because we don't know what's

1595
00:46:07,949 --> 00:46:09,050
happening in their life.

1596
00:46:09,579 --> 00:46:10,420
We don't know why,

1597
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,360
you know, a certain farmer has

1598
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:13,480
dirty borders or,

1599
00:46:14,340 --> 00:46:15,340
you know, their crop looks the

1600
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:16,699
way they are. Maybe they're just

1601
00:46:16,699 --> 00:46:17,840
going through a tough time and

1602
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:18,820
maybe we should go get to,

1603
00:46:19,309 --> 00:46:20,289
you know, have conversations

1604
00:46:20,289 --> 00:46:21,090
with them and,

1605
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:23,730
you know, and just with people.

1606
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,360
How do we treat people?

1607
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:27,820
A little kinder, just offer that

1608
00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:29,900
grace because we've been given a

1609
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:30,780
lot of grace, right?

1610
00:46:31,059 --> 00:46:31,860
Everyone, you know,

1611
00:46:32,559 --> 00:46:33,400
when we screw up,

1612
00:46:34,179 --> 00:46:35,440
There's a lot of grace given to

1613
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,860
us. Why aren't we giving it out?

1614
00:46:42,010 --> 00:46:42,810
Thank you, Brad.

1615
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,420
That was such a good

1616
00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:45,220
conversation.

1617
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:50,039
I want to be considered of the

1618
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:51,480
many people who I'm sure have

1619
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,820
conversations about your

1620
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:54,639
livestock operation or have

1621
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:55,500
questions about your livestock

1622
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:56,300
operation.

1623
00:46:57,559 --> 00:46:58,820
You're growing a number of

1624
00:46:58,820 --> 00:46:59,620
different things.

1625
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:01,739
Are you, I think if I understood

1626
00:47:01,739 --> 00:47:03,519
correctly, you market all of

1627
00:47:03,519 --> 00:47:04,960
those directly to consumers.

1628
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:06,039
Do you also do all of your own

1629
00:47:06,039 --> 00:47:07,199
processing? What does that,

1630
00:47:07,420 --> 00:47:08,840
what's the scope and the size of

1631
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,179
that operation look like?

1632
00:47:11,250 --> 00:47:13,070
Yeah, currently, we are

1633
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:15,369
raising all the animals

1634
00:47:15,369 --> 00:47:16,170
ourselves.

1635
00:47:16,530 --> 00:47:18,150
We do not process them

1636
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:19,750
ourselves. We have a USDA

1637
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:20,550
processor

1638
00:47:20,869 --> 00:47:23,650
for all livestock.

1639
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:25,489
We don't do anything here at the

1640
00:47:25,489 --> 00:47:26,289
farm.

1641
00:47:27,329 --> 00:47:28,130
I

1642
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,559
have enough going on.

1643
00:47:30,349 --> 00:47:32,150
The one thing, I don't need

1644
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:32,989
another job.

1645
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:34,730
And I don't need to manage

1646
00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:36,510
anything more. And as long as

1647
00:47:36,510 --> 00:47:37,310
there's somebody in the

1648
00:47:37,269 --> 00:47:38,630
community that's willing to do

1649
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:40,929
that job, and I can pay them and

1650
00:47:40,929 --> 00:47:44,250
help build them up as a

1651
00:47:44,250 --> 00:47:45,050
business.

1652
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:46,920
I'm ready to help them with

1653
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:47,720
that.

1654
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:49,980
So we do have other people J bar

1655
00:47:49,980 --> 00:47:52,260
poultry does our poultry and

1656
00:47:52,260 --> 00:47:53,739
Northwest premium does all of

1657
00:47:53,739 --> 00:47:54,539
our

1658
00:47:54,789 --> 00:47:57,110
pork and beef.

1659
00:47:57,820 --> 00:47:59,840
So they do a great job and we're

1660
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,650
happy that they're in business

1661
00:48:01,650 --> 00:48:03,250
and able to do that for us.

1662
00:48:03,929 --> 00:48:05,429
So yes, all of it's direct to

1663
00:48:05,429 --> 00:48:06,230
consumer.

1664
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,800
99 .5

1665
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,199
% of our sales is all right here

1666
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:12,679
in what we call the Treasure

1667
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:13,699
Valley, so the

1668
00:48:14,050 --> 00:48:15,429
greater Boise area.

1669
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:18,420
We're about 40, 45 minutes from

1670
00:48:18,420 --> 00:48:19,220
Boise.

1671
00:48:19,769 --> 00:48:21,929
And so that Treasure Valley is

1672
00:48:21,929 --> 00:48:23,750
where all of this meat is

1673
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:26,289
produced and is sold into.

1674
00:48:26,530 --> 00:48:27,330
We sell online.

1675
00:48:29,329 --> 00:48:30,909
do drops and home delivery

1676
00:48:30,909 --> 00:48:32,320
through that method.

1677
00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:33,400
We do a little bit of

1678
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:34,539
restaurant, not a whole lot.

1679
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:36,239
Most like eggs go more to the

1680
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,179
restaurant than than meat.

1681
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,559
We do a little bit of meat

1682
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:40,360
sales.

1683
00:48:40,590 --> 00:48:41,690
And then we have an on farm

1684
00:48:41,690 --> 00:48:44,210
store where about a third of

1685
00:48:44,210 --> 00:48:45,010
that

1686
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,139
is all sold through.

1687
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:47,120
And that

1688
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:49,400
has been the one thing that has

1689
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,199
surprised me about our

1690
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:53,079
community. And I would I would

1691
00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:54,280
hope that's the same in other

1692
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,440
communities is how far people

1693
00:48:56,789 --> 00:48:59,070
are willing to drive to come to

1694
00:48:59,070 --> 00:49:00,130
our farm store

1695
00:49:00,539 --> 00:49:01,760
and shop.

1696
00:49:02,190 --> 00:49:04,980
We did a little on paper study.

1697
00:49:05,059 --> 00:49:06,099
I had my mom, she was working

1698
00:49:06,099 --> 00:49:07,380
the store and I had her write

1699
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:09,239
down or ask and then write down

1700
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,099
the zip code for everyone that

1701
00:49:11,099 --> 00:49:12,800
was shopping in the store those

1702
00:49:12,949 --> 00:49:13,750
days.

1703
00:49:14,139 --> 00:49:15,380
And what we found was the

1704
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:17,019
average travel distance was

1705
00:49:17,019 --> 00:49:18,880
around 40 minutes to get to our

1706
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:19,680
store.

1707
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:21,400
And

1708
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:23,619
it was a nice busy day, a really

1709
00:49:23,619 --> 00:49:24,480
good day.

1710
00:49:25,019 --> 00:49:27,000
And it just blew my mind how

1711
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,519
far people are willing to travel

1712
00:49:29,519 --> 00:49:30,920
for high quality

1713
00:49:31,289 --> 00:49:32,090
protein.

1714
00:49:32,639 --> 00:49:33,980
And they're concerned.

1715
00:49:34,570 --> 00:49:35,530
about their health and they're

1716
00:49:35,530 --> 00:49:36,330
also concerned about

1717
00:49:36,869 --> 00:49:39,429
our well -being and the story

1718
00:49:39,429 --> 00:49:41,510
that we're telling with soil

1719
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:42,949
health and animal health.

1720
00:49:44,449 --> 00:49:45,250
Out of curiosity,

1721
00:49:45,409 --> 00:49:47,989
when you had that average 40

1722
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:50,440
mile travel distance, what was

1723
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:51,519
the average sale size?

1724
00:49:53,110 --> 00:49:55,550
Our basket size in that store is

1725
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:58,130
just below $80 a basket size.

1726
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,219
So some people are traveling

1727
00:50:01,219 --> 00:50:02,460
that far for just a few dozen

1728
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:03,260
eggs.

1729
00:50:03,550 --> 00:50:04,530
And then we have some people

1730
00:50:04,530 --> 00:50:05,650
that come and shop and spend

1731
00:50:05,650 --> 00:50:06,590
hundreds and hundreds of

1732
00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:08,769
dollars. And so it's a real

1733
00:50:08,769 --> 00:50:09,570
variance.

1734
00:50:09,329 --> 00:50:10,130
But

1735
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,840
when we look at basket size, it

1736
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,900
fluctuates. But anywhere from

1737
00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:16,920
that like $75 to $90 is our kind

1738
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,139
of average daily basket size.

1739
00:50:23,460 --> 00:50:25,960
All right, I have about a dozen

1740
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:26,760
questions.

1741
00:50:27,260 --> 00:50:29,480
But the context of what I'm so

1742
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,300
intrigued about what you're

1743
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:31,800
describing,

1744
00:50:32,139 --> 00:50:32,940
Brad, is that

1745
00:50:35,130 --> 00:50:38,139
there are many beef producers in

1746
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,120
particular,

1747
00:50:39,219 --> 00:50:40,639
but other livestock producers as

1748
00:50:40,639 --> 00:50:41,440
well, who

1749
00:50:42,090 --> 00:50:44,849
are making an effort to sell

1750
00:50:44,849 --> 00:50:45,909
direct to consumer, to

1751
00:50:45,909 --> 00:50:48,519
decommoditize themselves and to

1752
00:50:48,519 --> 00:50:50,179
capture more of that retail

1753
00:50:50,179 --> 00:50:50,980
dollar.

1754
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,719
They're prioritizing producing a

1755
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:53,519
high quality product.

1756
00:50:53,579 --> 00:50:54,460
They're selling online.

1757
00:50:55,369 --> 00:50:56,650
and their shipping product all

1758
00:50:56,650 --> 00:50:57,450
over the country.

1759
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:59,170
And very little is actually

1760
00:50:59,170 --> 00:50:59,970
being sold

1761
00:51:00,449 --> 00:51:02,230
in their region.

1762
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:04,440
And in

1763
00:51:05,389 --> 00:51:07,329
some regions where you have very

1764
00:51:07,329 --> 00:51:09,889
low population density out on

1765
00:51:09,889 --> 00:51:10,849
the plains, that's

1766
00:51:10,849 --> 00:51:12,630
understandable to a degree.

1767
00:51:13,690 --> 00:51:15,750
But I'd like to understand what

1768
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:17,730
is it that you've done?

1769
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:18,630
How have you approached it

1770
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:21,670
differently to have such a large

1771
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:22,929
concentration in your immediate

1772
00:51:22,929 --> 00:51:23,769
local region?

1773
00:51:26,429 --> 00:51:27,230
So there's

1774
00:51:28,489 --> 00:51:29,289
a few things.

1775
00:51:29,789 --> 00:51:31,829
Shipping is not the easiest.

1776
00:51:32,679 --> 00:51:35,179
In our local area, dry ice is a

1777
00:51:35,179 --> 00:51:37,199
big component of shipping frozen

1778
00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:38,000
product,

1779
00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:39,870
and

1780
00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:41,880
dry ice is really expensive in

1781
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,480
our area. If you were to go buy

1782
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,500
dry ice in bulk right now, it's

1783
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:48,989
around $3 .30 a pound in the

1784
00:51:48,989 --> 00:51:49,789
Treasure Valley.

1785
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:51,809
When you need eight to 10 pounds

1786
00:51:51,809 --> 00:51:52,610
for a box,

1787
00:51:53,449 --> 00:51:55,909
you're at a disadvantage to

1788
00:51:56,059 --> 00:51:57,360
people on the East Coast or

1789
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,199
other places, anywhere close

1790
00:51:59,510 --> 00:52:01,690
to the ocean that's in that 25

1791
00:52:01,690 --> 00:52:04,170
cents to 75 cent range.

1792
00:52:05,219 --> 00:52:06,019
It

1793
00:52:06,110 --> 00:52:07,650
was just always more expensive

1794
00:52:07,650 --> 00:52:08,969
and more difficult for us to

1795
00:52:08,969 --> 00:52:09,769
look at shipping,

1796
00:52:10,119 --> 00:52:12,739
which is the faster way

1797
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:14,880
to build that business.

1798
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:17,880
offer to everyone and ship it

1799
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,219
out and really get that going.

1800
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:20,260
So we always,

1801
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:22,449
and maybe we weren't,

1802
00:52:24,619 --> 00:52:26,119
maybe we didn't see things well

1803
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:27,780
enough to be able to find

1804
00:52:27,780 --> 00:52:28,960
cheaper ways of doing it,

1805
00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:31,380
but it just, maybe it kept our

1806
00:52:31,380 --> 00:52:32,199
mind closed off.

1807
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,360
And so we just focused on what

1808
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,260
we could control with our local

1809
00:52:36,260 --> 00:52:37,060
area.

1810
00:52:37,179 --> 00:52:38,940
And it was also a family goal.

1811
00:52:39,059 --> 00:52:39,860
When we

1812
00:52:39,769 --> 00:52:41,650
did holistic management training

1813
00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:42,570
as a family,

1814
00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:45,309
one of the main priorities was

1815
00:52:45,309 --> 00:52:47,630
providing a nutrient dense

1816
00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:48,430
protein

1817
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,199
for our local economy

1818
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:53,269
and in our local region.

1819
00:52:54,090 --> 00:52:56,269
So we just doubled down on that.

1820
00:52:56,369 --> 00:52:58,849
We did the main local farmer's

1821
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:59,809
market so we could

1822
00:53:00,150 --> 00:53:01,309
find those customers.

1823
00:53:01,989 --> 00:53:03,909
We told our story online.

1824
00:53:04,460 --> 00:53:06,500
We grabbed as many emails as we

1825
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:07,679
could everywhere we went.

1826
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:09,699
And my sister -in -law, Maria,

1827
00:53:10,269 --> 00:53:11,550
tells a great story,

1828
00:53:11,869 --> 00:53:13,050
does her weekly emails.

1829
00:53:13,170 --> 00:53:14,630
She was very diligent about

1830
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:15,430
that.

1831
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:16,480
And we

1832
00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:17,580
also

1833
00:53:17,860 --> 00:53:18,960
had the website built.

1834
00:53:19,139 --> 00:53:20,739
And so what when I mentioned the

1835
00:53:20,739 --> 00:53:21,840
website is because

1836
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:24,400
pre COVID, when we were at the

1837
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:25,200
farmer's market,

1838
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:28,280
very few of those those members

1839
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,080
there had

1840
00:53:29,329 --> 00:53:30,989
websites you could shop on.

1841
00:53:32,219 --> 00:53:34,710
So we started in 2015, selling

1842
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:36,980
protein 2018, we were starting

1843
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:37,960
to kind of ramp it up

1844
00:53:38,429 --> 00:53:40,170
pre COVID. I actually had a big

1845
00:53:40,170 --> 00:53:41,329
problem. I had

1846
00:53:41,739 --> 00:53:43,780
about 30 head of steers that

1847
00:53:43,780 --> 00:53:44,860
were ready to butcher.

1848
00:53:45,380 --> 00:53:46,180
no buyer.

1849
00:53:47,090 --> 00:53:48,750
I raised too much for our

1850
00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:49,550
market.

1851
00:53:49,449 --> 00:53:50,369
There was no one out there

1852
00:53:50,369 --> 00:53:51,170
willing to buy.

1853
00:53:51,809 --> 00:53:53,070
I couldn't find them at the

1854
00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:53,870
time.

1855
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:55,400
And then COVID hit.

1856
00:53:56,460 --> 00:53:57,260
And

1857
00:53:57,449 --> 00:53:59,289
I had all this beef ready.

1858
00:53:59,869 --> 00:54:01,949
We called and luckily got some

1859
00:54:01,949 --> 00:54:02,750
spots

1860
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:03,940
locked up.

1861
00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:06,739
And within just weeks, all of

1862
00:54:06,739 --> 00:54:08,139
that meat was butchered

1863
00:54:08,510 --> 00:54:11,230
and sold. And it was a huge

1864
00:54:11,230 --> 00:54:12,030
blessing.

1865
00:54:11,949 --> 00:54:12,750
Now,

1866
00:54:13,139 --> 00:54:15,679
COVID wasn't a huge blessing

1867
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,599
in a lot of ways, but it was it

1868
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:20,059
was a big blessing on getting

1869
00:54:20,059 --> 00:54:22,179
our product moved and sold.

1870
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:23,760
And we

1871
00:54:24,099 --> 00:54:25,780
had a website that you could buy

1872
00:54:25,780 --> 00:54:26,580
on.

1873
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:27,639
And so when our farmers markets

1874
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:28,440
closed,

1875
00:54:28,989 --> 00:54:30,190
people turned in in the

1876
00:54:30,190 --> 00:54:32,559
community turned to who they

1877
00:54:32,739 --> 00:54:33,539
could get it from.

1878
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:34,739
And they could get it from us

1879
00:54:34,739 --> 00:54:35,840
because we had the website,

1880
00:54:36,429 --> 00:54:38,510
we could meet them at a location

1881
00:54:38,510 --> 00:54:40,610
and drop it to them in the way

1882
00:54:40,610 --> 00:54:41,670
that was safest for them.

1883
00:54:42,289 --> 00:54:43,730
And we were able to

1884
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,880
We, we over doubled our business

1885
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:46,680
that year.

1886
00:54:46,980 --> 00:54:48,760
And that was just a springboard

1887
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:51,400
for my business to grow.

1888
00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:53,030
And, and

1889
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:54,980
from that point on, we've been

1890
00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:57,880
growing 25%, 30 % a year.

1891
00:55:02,070 --> 00:55:02,870
And your,

1892
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:05,579
your sales base you described is

1893
00:55:05,579 --> 00:55:06,880
still in the local region.

1894
00:55:07,019 --> 00:55:07,960
What does the,

1895
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:10,949
what, what does your mix of

1896
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:12,639
sales look like?

1897
00:55:12,699 --> 00:55:13,699
What are the various products

1898
00:55:13,699 --> 00:55:14,500
that you're producing?

1899
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:15,160
Where do you, where are you

1900
00:55:15,059 --> 00:55:16,360
finding the strongest demand?

1901
00:55:18,090 --> 00:55:19,849
Beef is the strongest demand.

1902
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,239
And it's kind of crazy, because

1903
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:23,039
when we started,

1904
00:55:23,659 --> 00:55:25,099
there's so much beef out there.

1905
00:55:25,969 --> 00:55:27,469
There's a lot of great beef

1906
00:55:27,469 --> 00:55:28,590
producers in our area.

1907
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:31,110
And so we looked at pork and

1908
00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:33,090
chicken as, hey, if we're going

1909
00:55:33,090 --> 00:55:34,489
to be different, let's, let's be

1910
00:55:34,489 --> 00:55:35,789
really good at pork and chicken.

1911
00:55:36,940 --> 00:55:38,539
And then our customers were

1912
00:55:38,539 --> 00:55:39,920
asking for beef, why don't you

1913
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,639
guys do beef? So we started

1914
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:42,480
doing beef.

1915
00:55:43,590 --> 00:55:44,909
And ever since COVID,

1916
00:55:45,269 --> 00:55:46,070
beef has just,

1917
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,179
our beef sales have just went

1918
00:55:48,460 --> 00:55:49,699
just through the roof.

1919
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:50,860
And so it

1920
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:52,739
is definitely our number one

1921
00:55:52,739 --> 00:55:53,920
seller at the moment.

1922
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,500
Every time we do a pork sale, we

1923
00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:57,300
sell more beef.

1924
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,079
And I don't know why people are

1925
00:55:59,079 --> 00:55:59,880
so,

1926
00:56:00,159 --> 00:56:01,719
as the price continues to go up

1927
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,139
and up and beef prices are

1928
00:56:03,139 --> 00:56:04,679
insane right now,

1929
00:56:05,650 --> 00:56:06,860
but people

1930
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:08,679
It's like a scarcity thing.

1931
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,079
They want to buy more beef

1932
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:11,820
because it's more expensive.

1933
00:56:11,980 --> 00:56:12,780
I don't know why.

1934
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,719
Pork is half or less than half

1935
00:56:14,909 --> 00:56:16,880
and they don't buy more pork.

1936
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,920
And I know there's some some

1937
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,440
religious issues there and some

1938
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,659
some diet issues with pork.

1939
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:25,429
But still, for those that could

1940
00:56:25,429 --> 00:56:26,769
eat it, why don't they eat more

1941
00:56:26,769 --> 00:56:27,909
of it? It's saving them money

1942
00:56:27,909 --> 00:56:29,409
and it tastes really good.

1943
00:56:29,710 --> 00:56:30,510
But

1944
00:56:30,510 --> 00:56:32,639
beef continues to shine.

1945
00:56:33,260 --> 00:56:35,519
Chicken always grows as much as

1946
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:36,320
we could produce.

1947
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:37,579
It's just amazing.

1948
00:56:37,300 --> 00:56:38,840
you know, very labor intensive

1949
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,260
the way we do it on pasture, but

1950
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:42,800
it's kind of crazy.

1951
00:56:46,190 --> 00:56:46,990
That's an interesting

1952
00:56:46,750 --> 00:56:47,690
observation, Brad.

1953
00:56:47,989 --> 00:56:48,789
You know,

1954
00:56:48,829 --> 00:56:49,710
I wonder,

1955
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:52,920
again, I'm lacking context here

1956
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,599
to have an informed perspective,

1957
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:55,800
but

1958
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:57,170
we have here in our local

1959
00:56:57,170 --> 00:56:59,449
region, we have a local butcher

1960
00:56:59,449 --> 00:57:00,809
shop called Heritage Meats,

1961
00:57:02,230 --> 00:57:03,329
and they

1962
00:57:04,539 --> 00:57:06,199
started from nothing half a

1963
00:57:06,199 --> 00:57:07,000
dozen years ago.

1964
00:57:08,289 --> 00:57:09,730
COVID also benefited them a

1965
00:57:09,730 --> 00:57:10,530
great deal,

1966
00:57:10,809 --> 00:57:12,110
but they are

1967
00:57:12,809 --> 00:57:14,650
moving everyone's cheese

1968
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:16,570
because of quality.

1969
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:18,310
And

1970
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:20,199
There is nothing that

1971
00:57:21,659 --> 00:57:22,940
they're buying.

1972
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:25,159
I'm using this term loosely.

1973
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,480
They're buying commodity beef.

1974
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:27,619
They're buying beef at the sale

1975
00:57:27,619 --> 00:57:28,420
barn,

1976
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:31,239
but they just they buy well

1977
00:57:32,030 --> 00:57:34,050
and they butcher well and they

1978
00:57:34,050 --> 00:57:35,170
optimize for quality.

1979
00:57:36,460 --> 00:57:37,699
And they have a reputation of

1980
00:57:37,699 --> 00:57:39,099
having the highest quality meat

1981
00:57:39,099 --> 00:57:39,940
in the region.

1982
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:42,360
And of course, their

1983
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:43,239
competition, I mean,

1984
00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:45,800
the funny part about this story

1985
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:47,519
is that they are literally 300

1986
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:48,980
yards from

1987
00:57:48,980 --> 00:57:52,019
the closest Walmart super

1988
00:57:52,019 --> 00:57:52,820
center.

1989
00:57:53,289 --> 00:57:54,510
And there are other grocery

1990
00:57:54,510 --> 00:57:56,030
store chains, major chains, all

1991
00:57:56,030 --> 00:57:57,110
within a couple of miles.

1992
00:57:58,030 --> 00:57:58,969
They're right in the dead center

1993
00:57:58,969 --> 00:58:01,940
of the largest local

1994
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:03,340
town here.

1995
00:58:05,449 --> 00:58:07,829
They are just going to town,

1996
00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:11,119
literally and figuratively,

1997
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,480
being just growing very rapidly

1998
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:14,340
year over year

1999
00:58:14,780 --> 00:58:16,320
because of the

2000
00:58:16,690 --> 00:58:18,630
quality of the meat compared to

2001
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:19,670
what people can buy in those

2002
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:20,470
other stores.

2003
00:58:20,989 --> 00:58:22,110
How much do you think that has a

2004
00:58:22,110 --> 00:58:24,949
factor in the demand for quality

2005
00:58:24,949 --> 00:58:26,550
beef at any price or for beef at

2006
00:58:26,550 --> 00:58:27,630
any price in your in your

2007
00:58:27,630 --> 00:58:28,430
context?

2008
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:30,329
Well, I think it's I think it's

2009
00:58:30,329 --> 00:58:31,130
a huge thing.

2010
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:32,150
And

2011
00:58:32,110 --> 00:58:35,309
when when beef prices are doing

2012
00:58:35,309 --> 00:58:36,289
what they're doing,

2013
00:58:36,969 --> 00:58:39,409
the big packers have to find

2014
00:58:39,409 --> 00:58:41,369
ways to make it as cheap as

2015
00:58:41,369 --> 00:58:42,389
possible and

2016
00:58:42,699 --> 00:58:44,599
still get the meat into people's

2017
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:45,400
hands.

2018
00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:46,370
And so

2019
00:58:46,579 --> 00:58:47,380
they're gonna

2020
00:58:48,070 --> 00:58:50,369
do all sorts of things to try to

2021
00:58:50,369 --> 00:58:51,829
make that meat cheaper and

2022
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:52,630
cheaper.

2023
00:58:52,780 --> 00:58:54,579
I saw it interesting in the

2024
00:58:54,579 --> 00:58:57,960
store the other day was a ground

2025
00:58:58,179 --> 00:58:58,980
pork,

2026
00:58:59,030 --> 00:59:00,090
ground beef mix.

2027
00:59:00,929 --> 00:59:01,730
That was the first time I've

2028
00:59:01,730 --> 00:59:02,530
ever seen that.

2029
00:59:02,369 --> 00:59:03,630
And they're trying to find ways

2030
00:59:03,630 --> 00:59:05,760
to make this cheaper for

2031
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:06,560
families.

2032
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:09,139
but we don't ever change.

2033
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:10,440
You know, our hamburger is

2034
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:11,100
always 80 -20.

2035
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:12,940
You know, we're keeping it

2036
00:59:12,940 --> 00:59:14,079
consistent, trying to keep it

2037
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:14,880
fresh.

2038
00:59:15,059 --> 00:59:16,400
We really focus on,

2039
00:59:16,849 --> 00:59:17,929
as grass finishers,

2040
00:59:18,449 --> 00:59:20,679
we really focus on that that

2041
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:23,619
animal is well marbled and we're

2042
00:59:23,619 --> 00:59:24,440
doing that visually.

2043
00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:25,960
We're making sure that brisket's

2044
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:26,780
really full,

2045
00:59:27,260 --> 00:59:28,179
there's tail fat,

2046
00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:30,769
and when they hit that, that's

2047
00:59:30,769 --> 00:59:31,570
when we butcher.

2048
00:59:31,309 --> 00:59:32,250
We don't go on age,

2049
00:59:33,650 --> 00:59:34,909
we go on that look.

2050
00:59:35,010 --> 00:59:36,829
And so I think that is really

2051
00:59:36,829 --> 00:59:37,630
helping

2052
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:39,820
ourselves is that we're

2053
00:59:39,820 --> 00:59:40,900
consistent with

2054
00:59:41,659 --> 00:59:43,619
an amount of fat inside that

2055
00:59:43,619 --> 00:59:44,420
meat.

2056
00:59:44,460 --> 00:59:47,280
Now we're never gonna grade the

2057
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:48,159
grain finishers,

2058
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,500
but we're very consistent with

2059
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:51,500
what it is.

2060
00:59:52,369 --> 00:59:54,809
And a story that a

2061
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:56,300
good friend of mine, John Van

2062
00:59:56,300 --> 00:59:58,030
Der Giesen, said the other day,

2063
00:59:58,489 --> 00:59:59,389
He was talking about grass

2064
00:59:59,389 --> 01:00:00,190
finishers,

2065
01:00:00,989 --> 01:00:03,469
and he related it to wine,

2066
01:00:04,139 --> 01:00:05,579
that every grass finisher has

2067
01:00:05,579 --> 01:00:07,000
its own flavor profile.

2068
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:08,240
Every farmer does.

2069
01:00:08,869 --> 01:00:11,199
And just like wine in a region

2070
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:14,659
and in the winery has their own,

2071
01:00:14,900 --> 01:00:16,380
you know, taste and flavor

2072
01:00:16,380 --> 01:00:17,180
profile.

2073
01:00:17,590 --> 01:00:19,090
And that's what we have.

2074
01:00:19,130 --> 01:00:22,239
We have our region and we're all

2075
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:23,039
irrigated

2076
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,800
pastures, cover crop and grass

2077
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:26,719
mixes. And then you've got

2078
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:27,940
people that are out in the range

2079
01:00:27,940 --> 01:00:30,059
and we all have our own

2080
01:00:30,690 --> 01:00:31,670
flavor profile.

2081
01:00:32,530 --> 01:00:34,750
And I think our flavor profile

2082
01:00:34,750 --> 01:00:36,150
definitely resonates with our

2083
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:37,170
customers, but we're not going

2084
01:00:37,170 --> 01:00:37,970
to be

2085
01:00:38,050 --> 01:00:39,750
the producer for every

2086
01:00:40,380 --> 01:00:41,559
customer out there.

2087
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:42,840
There's going to be some people

2088
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,199
that don't like my flavor

2089
01:00:44,199 --> 01:00:45,539
profile. And that is fine.

2090
01:00:46,019 --> 01:00:48,320
It's, it's figuring out that not

2091
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:49,980
everyone is my customer, but

2092
01:00:50,489 --> 01:00:53,480
speaking really well to who is

2093
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,900
my customer and telling the

2094
01:00:55,900 --> 01:00:57,219
story and getting it, getting it

2095
01:00:57,219 --> 01:00:58,019
in their hands

2096
01:00:58,300 --> 01:01:00,909
conveniently as possible that

2097
01:01:00,909 --> 01:01:02,170
you can afford to do.

2098
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:05,550
and as consistently flavor

2099
01:01:06,179 --> 01:01:08,670
-wise as possible because people

2100
01:01:08,670 --> 01:01:09,889
want that consistency.

2101
01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:11,969
They don't want it changing all

2102
01:01:11,969 --> 01:01:13,829
the time. They want consistency

2103
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:16,150
and they want easy access.

2104
01:01:16,389 --> 01:01:18,420
So we try to always be in front

2105
01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:20,039
of them via social media or

2106
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:20,840
email.

2107
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:22,380
We try to provide them a very

2108
01:01:22,380 --> 01:01:23,519
consistent product that they're

2109
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:24,320
used to

2110
01:01:24,429 --> 01:01:25,440
and and

2111
01:01:25,849 --> 01:01:28,000
get it into the hands of as many

2112
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,380
people that appreciate the

2113
01:01:29,380 --> 01:01:30,800
flavor that we, that we have.

2114
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,900
And that's, that's what we focus

2115
01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:34,700
on.

2116
01:01:36,489 --> 01:01:37,570
Brad, I just think, I think you

2117
01:01:37,570 --> 01:01:38,610
just said something very

2118
01:01:38,610 --> 01:01:39,690
important that,

2119
01:01:41,170 --> 01:01:41,970
yeah, I'm sure,

2120
01:01:42,050 --> 01:01:43,570
I'm sure people heard it, but

2121
01:01:43,570 --> 01:01:44,370
also,

2122
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:46,680
um,

2123
01:01:47,019 --> 01:01:49,139
we should lean into our local

2124
01:01:49,139 --> 01:01:49,940
flavor,

2125
01:01:50,260 --> 01:01:51,679
our local terroir as

2126
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:53,940
a strength, not as a weakness.

2127
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:54,760
And

2128
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,300
in the mainstream marketplace,

2129
01:01:57,269 --> 01:01:58,889
Having a product that is

2130
01:01:58,889 --> 01:02:00,989
unappealing to some people is

2131
01:02:00,989 --> 01:02:02,409
considered a weakness.

2132
01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:04,139
But if you are not in the

2133
01:02:04,139 --> 01:02:04,940
mainstream,

2134
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:06,679
then that is a strength.

2135
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,199
Like the universal wine, the

2136
01:02:09,199 --> 01:02:10,739
wine that everyone likes is the

2137
01:02:10,739 --> 01:02:11,539
cheap wine.

2138
01:02:12,170 --> 01:02:13,610
Well, no, the people with

2139
01:02:13,610 --> 01:02:14,809
sophisticated taste buds don't

2140
01:02:14,809 --> 01:02:15,610
like that.

2141
01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:17,469
But maybe a better way of saying

2142
01:02:17,469 --> 01:02:19,550
it is the wine that appeals to

2143
01:02:19,550 --> 01:02:21,050
it, that wants to appeal to a

2144
01:02:21,050 --> 01:02:22,530
universal audience is

2145
01:02:22,900 --> 01:02:23,980
the lowest priced stuff.

2146
01:02:25,369 --> 01:02:28,070
And I read this fascinating book

2147
01:02:28,070 --> 01:02:30,090
years ago, and I keep pointing

2148
01:02:30,090 --> 01:02:30,890
back to it,

2149
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:32,349
titled Biochemical

2150
01:02:32,349 --> 01:02:33,329
Individuality.

2151
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:34,929
And it was describing how

2152
01:02:35,250 --> 01:02:37,489
depending on your body's

2153
01:02:37,769 --> 01:02:39,090
historical accumulated

2154
01:02:39,090 --> 01:02:41,050
experiences and your unique

2155
01:02:41,050 --> 01:02:42,670
biochemical footprint or

2156
01:02:43,619 --> 01:02:45,019
the composition of your body,

2157
01:02:45,650 --> 01:02:48,550
you will perceive the flavor

2158
01:02:48,550 --> 01:02:51,690
of things very differently from

2159
01:02:51,690 --> 01:02:52,750
the people around you.

2160
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:55,519
And there's some obvious cases

2161
01:02:55,519 --> 01:02:57,400
like the genetic makeup changes

2162
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:58,960
that are associated with people

2163
01:02:59,210 --> 01:03:01,389
either loving cilantro or hating

2164
01:03:01,389 --> 01:03:03,070
cilantro. But then there are

2165
01:03:03,070 --> 01:03:04,429
layers and layers of nuance

2166
01:03:04,429 --> 01:03:06,750
beneath that very obvious

2167
01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:07,630
example as well.

2168
01:03:08,699 --> 01:03:09,500
And

2169
01:03:09,409 --> 01:03:11,230
to your point,

2170
01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:13,440
it is actually a marketing

2171
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:14,240
strength

2172
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:16,940
to have unique flavors that are

2173
01:03:16,940 --> 01:03:18,320
not universal in appeal.

2174
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:22,110
And if you are targeting

2175
01:03:22,110 --> 01:03:23,250
universal appeal,

2176
01:03:24,230 --> 01:03:25,030
then

2177
01:03:24,780 --> 01:03:27,980
you're essentially producing a

2178
01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:28,940
commodity and you're competing

2179
01:03:28,940 --> 01:03:29,740
with commodities.

2180
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:32,639
Yeah, you're

2181
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:35,349
challenging my thought.

2182
01:03:37,809 --> 01:03:39,269
Because a lot of times as you

2183
01:03:39,269 --> 01:03:41,530
look as a business, you're like,

2184
01:03:41,630 --> 01:03:43,050
I need to grow, I need to grow,

2185
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:46,940
and you're trying to gain market

2186
01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:48,300
share all the time.

2187
01:03:50,650 --> 01:03:52,269
as you try to gain that market

2188
01:03:52,269 --> 01:03:53,070
share,

2189
01:03:54,510 --> 01:03:55,310
you know, you don't want to

2190
01:03:55,210 --> 01:03:56,110
become watered down.

2191
01:03:56,289 --> 01:03:57,090
That's what,

2192
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:58,080
you know, some people really

2193
01:03:58,059 --> 01:04:00,610
love that green finished beef,

2194
01:04:00,690 --> 01:04:01,490
but it,

2195
01:04:01,469 --> 01:04:03,369
it tastes all the same and it's

2196
01:04:03,369 --> 01:04:04,690
very mild and

2197
01:04:05,449 --> 01:04:06,889
they put all kinds of seasonings

2198
01:04:06,889 --> 01:04:07,690
on it

2199
01:04:07,539 --> 01:04:09,360
and make it what they want.

2200
01:04:09,380 --> 01:04:10,180
Right.

2201
01:04:10,269 --> 01:04:11,070
Well,

2202
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:12,739
I always say that ours doesn't

2203
01:04:12,739 --> 01:04:13,699
need, you know,

2204
01:04:14,039 --> 01:04:15,559
it doesn't need much salt and

2205
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:17,699
pepper. You know, that's, that's

2206
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,340
what I always say, like with my

2207
01:04:19,340 --> 01:04:21,440
pork, just pork chop, just put

2208
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,059
salt and pepper on it and put it

2209
01:04:23,059 --> 01:04:23,860
on the grill.

2210
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:26,599
and cook it low and slow and get

2211
01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:27,940
it to temp and you'll have the

2212
01:04:27,940 --> 01:04:28,860
best eating experience.

2213
01:04:29,059 --> 01:04:30,260
The fat, you'll crave the fat

2214
01:04:30,260 --> 01:04:31,060
more than the meat.

2215
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,059
And because it has that flavor

2216
01:04:35,059 --> 01:04:36,659
in it, you don't need to add the

2217
01:04:36,659 --> 01:04:37,519
flavor to it.

2218
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:40,840
And I really like that, because

2219
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,079
I've never thought about those,

2220
01:04:42,909 --> 01:04:45,010
you know, the big, big beef,

2221
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:47,449
it is kind of a, it's just a

2222
01:04:47,449 --> 01:04:48,289
very mild

2223
01:04:48,989 --> 01:04:49,789
flavor.

2224
01:04:50,010 --> 01:04:51,969
And that's probably on purpose,

2225
01:04:52,110 --> 01:04:54,409
right? That helps everyone

2226
01:04:54,869 --> 01:04:55,710
be able to eat it.

2227
01:04:56,510 --> 01:04:58,170
Their customer base is wider,

2228
01:04:58,309 --> 01:05:00,989
but I don't need to be selling

2229
01:05:00,989 --> 01:05:02,309
to the world, right?

2230
01:05:02,449 --> 01:05:03,250
I

2231
01:05:03,099 --> 01:05:05,019
need to do what's right for my

2232
01:05:05,019 --> 01:05:08,070
farm size and my context and for

2233
01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:08,870
our family

2234
01:05:09,699 --> 01:05:13,019
and just focus on who loves that

2235
01:05:13,019 --> 01:05:13,860
flavor profile.

2236
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:15,600
Well, if you

2237
01:05:15,659 --> 01:05:17,980
take this idea and this

2238
01:05:17,980 --> 01:05:19,300
conversation we're having all

2239
01:05:19,300 --> 01:05:20,960
the way to its extremes, to the

2240
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:21,760
end of the spectrum,

2241
01:05:22,619 --> 01:05:23,820
the one example that we have to

2242
01:05:23,820 --> 01:05:25,380
point to of someone who has

2243
01:05:25,380 --> 01:05:26,380
marketed terroir

2244
01:05:27,139 --> 01:05:28,039
very,

2245
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,840
very well is Glenn Elzinga from

2246
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,579
Elder Spring Ranch, who's in

2247
01:05:32,579 --> 01:05:33,900
your region of the country.

2248
01:05:35,179 --> 01:05:36,780
I attempted to buy

2249
01:05:37,199 --> 01:05:39,199
from Elder Spring Ranch sometime

2250
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:40,739
ago, a year or two ago, because

2251
01:05:40,739 --> 01:05:42,800
I wanted to hear, I wanted to

2252
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,199
experience what the rave was all

2253
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:45,400
about and the fact that they've

2254
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,440
won half a dozen awards for

2255
01:05:47,909 --> 01:05:48,869
having the best steak.

2256
01:05:49,210 --> 01:05:50,010
And

2257
01:05:49,730 --> 01:05:52,670
Stefan Van Vliet has described

2258
01:05:52,670 --> 01:05:53,470
how

2259
01:05:53,710 --> 01:05:56,199
they're grazing hundreds of

2260
01:05:56,199 --> 01:05:57,300
different plant species.

2261
01:05:57,500 --> 01:05:59,159
And he actually found the

2262
01:05:59,309 --> 01:06:01,750
compounds from alliums, from

2263
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:03,750
onions and chives and garlic and

2264
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:04,550
so forth

2265
01:06:04,579 --> 01:06:06,719
in their meat because they're

2266
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:08,639
grazing these wild plants.

2267
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:10,510
And do

2268
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:12,280
you think I could buy their

2269
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:13,080
steak online?

2270
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:14,820
They're sold out for months in

2271
01:06:14,820 --> 01:06:17,300
advance at 60 to 70 bucks a

2272
01:06:17,300 --> 01:06:18,100
piece.

2273
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,619
So there's the extreme example

2274
01:06:20,619 --> 01:06:22,599
of selling terroir from

2275
01:06:23,079 --> 01:06:24,880
100 % grass fed animals that are

2276
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,579
known to have remarkable flavor

2277
01:06:26,579 --> 01:06:27,760
because of the vegetation

2278
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:28,880
they're grazing on and because

2279
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:29,900
of the environment they're in.

2280
01:06:31,079 --> 01:06:32,400
Yeah, Glenn's doing a fantastic

2281
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,639
job. And the way they do that in

2282
01:06:34,639 --> 01:06:36,619
herding and those animals get

2283
01:06:36,619 --> 01:06:38,860
across all all the landscape the

2284
01:06:38,860 --> 01:06:39,660
way they do.

2285
01:06:40,340 --> 01:06:41,140
And

2286
01:06:41,429 --> 01:06:42,670
I've never been I've never had

2287
01:06:42,670 --> 01:06:43,590
the chance to eat it.

2288
01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:44,930
Um,

2289
01:06:44,909 --> 01:06:46,809
but I, I should, and I, you

2290
01:06:46,809 --> 01:06:48,010
know, it's going to have a very

2291
01:06:48,289 --> 01:06:49,150
unique,

2292
01:06:49,530 --> 01:06:50,330
um,

2293
01:06:50,590 --> 01:06:51,809
flavor profile and,

2294
01:06:52,210 --> 01:06:53,710
and that's what is, that's what

2295
01:06:53,710 --> 01:06:54,510
sells,

2296
01:06:54,769 --> 01:06:56,349
uh, for his customer base.

2297
01:06:56,389 --> 01:06:57,510
And that's, what's amazing is,

2298
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:00,739
you know, he has so many, so

2299
01:07:00,739 --> 01:07:02,340
many such a diverse, you

2300
01:07:02,659 --> 01:07:04,500
know, plant availability where

2301
01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:05,300
on

2302
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:07,059
my irrigated pastures, just

2303
01:07:07,059 --> 01:07:07,940
whatever I provide.

2304
01:07:07,940 --> 01:07:08,900
And that's why we tried to do

2305
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:10,059
big cover crop mixes and.

2306
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:11,030
get

2307
01:07:11,139 --> 01:07:13,860
as much diversity in the animal

2308
01:07:13,860 --> 01:07:14,660
as possible.

2309
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,500
There's no way we could afford

2310
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:17,880
to get to his level,

2311
01:07:18,409 --> 01:07:19,210
which

2312
01:07:19,619 --> 01:07:21,500
when it goes back to it, I don't

2313
01:07:21,500 --> 01:07:22,380
need to either, right?

2314
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:25,599
I need to do what fits in our

2315
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:26,699
context and

2316
01:07:27,110 --> 01:07:29,690
what the customer wants, what my

2317
01:07:29,690 --> 01:07:30,490
customer wants.

2318
01:07:31,219 --> 01:07:32,019
Exactly.

2319
01:07:33,460 --> 01:07:34,460
Brad, this has been such an

2320
01:07:34,460 --> 01:07:35,360
enjoyable conversation.

2321
01:07:35,519 --> 01:07:36,460
What are the important topics

2322
01:07:36,460 --> 01:07:37,659
that we've missed talking about?

2323
01:07:41,539 --> 01:07:42,340
I mean,

2324
01:07:42,179 --> 01:07:42,980
soil,

2325
01:07:43,940 --> 01:07:45,099
It is my passion.

2326
01:07:45,380 --> 01:07:46,480
And we haven't talked a lot

2327
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:47,280
about soil.

2328
01:07:48,429 --> 01:07:49,929
Actually, my license plate,

2329
01:07:50,349 --> 01:07:51,630
I just got a new one, but my

2330
01:07:51,630 --> 01:07:53,230
license plate says soil nerd.

2331
01:07:54,590 --> 01:07:57,690
And it is that that's what is

2332
01:07:57,690 --> 01:07:59,030
the basis of everything.

2333
01:07:59,190 --> 01:08:00,610
If you look at everything on

2334
01:08:00,610 --> 01:08:02,710
this planet that we use daily,

2335
01:08:02,869 --> 01:08:04,250
everything you can tie back to

2336
01:08:04,250 --> 01:08:05,050
soil.

2337
01:08:06,059 --> 01:08:07,579
And so as a people,

2338
01:08:08,650 --> 01:08:10,730
as customers of things like

2339
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:14,119
are we focused enough on the

2340
01:08:14,119 --> 01:08:16,800
soil health of our region, of

2341
01:08:17,010 --> 01:08:17,810
our nation?

2342
01:08:18,529 --> 01:08:19,649
And I think we can do better,

2343
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:21,430
always, we can do better.

2344
01:08:21,750 --> 01:08:22,770
And I think that's really

2345
01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:23,810
important for people to

2346
01:08:23,810 --> 01:08:24,630
understand that

2347
01:08:25,010 --> 01:08:26,130
every choice

2348
01:08:26,890 --> 01:08:28,710
has a negative or positive

2349
01:08:28,710 --> 01:08:30,229
influence on their soil health.

2350
01:08:30,949 --> 01:08:31,750
And the

2351
01:08:32,250 --> 01:08:33,229
things that they're buying

2352
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:35,720
has a negative and a positive,

2353
01:08:36,060 --> 01:08:37,239
you know, influence on soil

2354
01:08:37,239 --> 01:08:38,039
health.

2355
01:08:38,109 --> 01:08:39,289
So we need to be

2356
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:41,220
more conscious of it.

2357
01:08:41,239 --> 01:08:42,079
And we need to vote with our

2358
01:08:42,079 --> 01:08:42,880
dollar better.

2359
01:08:43,390 --> 01:08:44,409
And just

2360
01:08:45,199 --> 01:08:46,060
realize that

2361
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:47,670
the soils

2362
01:08:48,289 --> 01:08:49,569
very important and that the

2363
01:08:49,569 --> 01:08:51,210
livestock in the soil, we get to

2364
01:08:51,210 --> 01:08:52,470
see our livestock on top of the

2365
01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:53,270
soil all the time.

2366
01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:54,630
If we could only hear

2367
01:08:55,260 --> 01:08:57,220
and visually see those little

2368
01:08:57,220 --> 01:08:58,859
guys underneath and what they're

2369
01:08:58,859 --> 01:09:00,340
saying to us, like we can with

2370
01:09:00,340 --> 01:09:01,640
our livestock on top,

2371
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:03,640
I think we might act a little

2372
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:04,440
different.

2373
01:09:06,819 --> 01:09:07,619
Brad,

2374
01:09:07,340 --> 01:09:08,659
this is

2375
01:09:09,710 --> 01:09:10,789
an interesting conversation.

2376
01:09:10,989 --> 01:09:13,109
You framed this just maybe the

2377
01:09:13,109 --> 01:09:15,010
way you articulated it triggered

2378
01:09:15,010 --> 01:09:15,810
something for me.

2379
01:09:16,539 --> 01:09:18,659
But you framed it as the things

2380
01:09:18,659 --> 01:09:20,100
that we buy as consumers, but

2381
01:09:20,100 --> 01:09:20,900
you are

2382
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:22,699
a farmer. You're more often

2383
01:09:22,699 --> 01:09:24,380
thought of as a producer rather

2384
01:09:24,380 --> 01:09:25,180
than as a consumer.

2385
01:09:25,489 --> 01:09:26,689
I don't particularly care for

2386
01:09:26,689 --> 01:09:27,670
those two labels, by the way.

2387
01:09:27,890 --> 01:09:28,690
But

2388
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,079
my

2389
01:09:30,579 --> 01:09:32,520
question for you is,

2390
01:09:33,210 --> 01:09:34,670
As in your life, as you're

2391
01:09:34,670 --> 01:09:35,949
making decisions about what to

2392
01:09:35,949 --> 01:09:36,850
buy and how to spend your

2393
01:09:36,850 --> 01:09:38,010
dollars, how are you doing

2394
01:09:38,010 --> 01:09:39,130
things differently today from

2395
01:09:39,130 --> 01:09:39,949
what you did historically?

2396
01:09:43,060 --> 01:09:45,579
I think the main thing is I'm

2397
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:46,800
actually trying

2398
01:09:47,239 --> 01:09:48,140
to think about it.

2399
01:09:50,239 --> 01:09:52,560
Because a lot of times there's

2400
01:09:53,250 --> 01:09:54,130
just no thought given

2401
01:09:54,539 --> 01:09:56,729
that what I'm buying, and I'm

2402
01:09:56,729 --> 01:09:57,529
not perfect at it.

2403
01:09:58,020 --> 01:10:00,119
The last one to say I'm perfect

2404
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:01,300
in all my choices,

2405
01:10:02,170 --> 01:10:03,550
but I try to consciously think

2406
01:10:03,550 --> 01:10:05,199
like, what am I doing?

2407
01:10:05,359 --> 01:10:07,300
What is this doing for the

2408
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:08,100
future

2409
01:10:08,100 --> 01:10:09,539
of my children?

2410
01:10:11,859 --> 01:10:13,479
their lives, because

2411
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:15,829
we're so interconnected.

2412
01:10:16,770 --> 01:10:18,090
And we like to think like, oh,

2413
01:10:18,090 --> 01:10:19,090
I'm just making this one

2414
01:10:19,090 --> 01:10:19,890
decision today,

2415
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:22,840
and it doesn't affect anything

2416
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:23,640
else.

2417
01:10:24,060 --> 01:10:25,460
But there's always a cascading

2418
01:10:26,090 --> 01:10:27,569
effect on every choice.

2419
01:10:27,649 --> 01:10:29,050
And so I just try to be more

2420
01:10:29,050 --> 01:10:30,529
conscious of it and just be more

2421
01:10:30,529 --> 01:10:31,329
aware

2422
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:32,360
that

2423
01:10:33,159 --> 01:10:34,560
maybe I have to make this

2424
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:35,699
decision and I'm not happy about

2425
01:10:35,699 --> 01:10:36,699
it, but how can I change in the

2426
01:10:36,699 --> 01:10:37,500
future?

2427
01:10:37,470 --> 01:10:39,090
What can I do differently the

2428
01:10:39,090 --> 01:10:39,890
next time?

2429
01:10:40,970 --> 01:10:42,189
And just try to be more

2430
01:10:42,189 --> 01:10:43,430
thoughtful. It's going to

2431
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:44,230
change.

2432
01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:48,720
Brad, are you thinking about

2433
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:50,399
these decisions and just being

2434
01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:51,659
conscious and being mindful in

2435
01:10:51,659 --> 01:10:53,020
the context of making purchase

2436
01:10:53,020 --> 01:10:54,140
decisions for your farming

2437
01:10:54,140 --> 01:10:55,699
operation or in terms of your

2438
01:10:55,699 --> 01:10:57,159
household and family or both?

2439
01:10:58,569 --> 01:10:59,369
Both.

2440
01:10:59,750 --> 01:11:01,010
And it's, this has been

2441
01:11:01,579 --> 01:11:02,859
really

2442
01:11:03,460 --> 01:11:04,840
like the last six months has

2443
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:05,640
really been,

2444
01:11:05,810 --> 01:11:07,529
cause I look at soil and I've

2445
01:11:07,529 --> 01:11:08,729
always just like, this only

2446
01:11:08,729 --> 01:11:10,789
affects farm, my farm life.

2447
01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:14,670
And then the last six months is

2448
01:11:14,979 --> 01:11:15,859
when I've been really

2449
01:11:16,529 --> 01:11:17,710
thinking

2450
01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:19,270
about it more.

2451
01:11:20,420 --> 01:11:21,380
And I don't know what triggered

2452
01:11:21,380 --> 01:11:22,180
it.

2453
01:11:22,060 --> 01:11:22,860
It's just

2454
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,180
how, if you look at everything

2455
01:11:25,180 --> 01:11:26,300
goes back to soil

2456
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:27,800
and like,

2457
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:29,840
you know, civilization,

2458
01:11:30,539 --> 01:11:33,479
died and they moved because of

2459
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:34,979
soil degradation.

2460
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:36,399
Am

2461
01:11:37,130 --> 01:11:40,310
I truly leaving this resource

2462
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:42,029
better than I found it

2463
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:44,760
for my next generation and my

2464
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:45,560
community?

2465
01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:49,579
Am I involved enough as a member

2466
01:11:49,579 --> 01:11:51,439
of a community to help others

2467
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:52,399
make these changes?

2468
01:11:53,789 --> 01:11:56,329
It's a passion of mine to make

2469
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:57,640
sure we are

2470
01:11:58,539 --> 01:12:00,020
leaving this

2471
01:12:00,909 --> 01:12:02,550
resource better.

2472
01:12:03,260 --> 01:12:04,060
It's just

2473
01:12:04,020 --> 01:12:05,399
is I think it's very important.

2474
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:06,800
And you know, even when you look

2475
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:07,760
at building houses,

2476
01:12:08,819 --> 01:12:10,340
for all these people moving in,

2477
01:12:11,090 --> 01:12:12,689
lots of people are moving in, in

2478
01:12:12,689 --> 01:12:13,569
our valley here.

2479
01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:15,890
But you know, are the

2480
01:12:15,890 --> 01:12:16,890
construction people really

2481
01:12:16,890 --> 01:12:18,090
worrying about ground nesting

2482
01:12:18,090 --> 01:12:18,890
bees?

2483
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:20,750
Because that's a huge thing for

2484
01:12:20,750 --> 01:12:21,909
our seed production around here.

2485
01:12:22,810 --> 01:12:23,610
Like,

2486
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,079
no, we're not. So how do we

2487
01:12:26,550 --> 01:12:27,649
keep all this stuff?

2488
01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:28,960
You know,

2489
01:12:28,779 --> 01:12:30,260
humans need a place to live.

2490
01:12:30,260 --> 01:12:31,720
But how do we structure these

2491
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,680
things? And how do we keep focus

2492
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:34,480
and

2493
01:12:34,489 --> 01:12:35,289
not

2494
01:12:35,409 --> 01:12:37,250
Having one of these moments and

2495
01:12:37,250 --> 01:12:38,390
have to look back and say, well,

2496
01:12:38,449 --> 01:12:39,590
we really screwed up there.

2497
01:12:40,579 --> 01:12:41,779
How do we not screw up

2498
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,399
something in the way that you

2499
01:12:45,399 --> 01:12:47,779
said that Brad trying to recall

2500
01:12:47,779 --> 01:12:49,140
the exact words that you use,

2501
01:12:49,220 --> 01:12:50,840
but paraphrasing something to

2502
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,380
the effect of how how do we

2503
01:12:52,380 --> 01:12:54,039
steward this resource?

2504
01:12:56,329 --> 01:12:57,590
What if we

2505
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:00,420
changed our language to no

2506
01:13:00,420 --> 01:13:01,819
longer think of it as a

2507
01:13:01,819 --> 01:13:02,619
resource?

2508
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:04,920
What if in that framing we are

2509
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:05,720
the resource?

2510
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:06,720
In other words,

2511
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:09,859
instead of the land belonging to

2512
01:13:09,859 --> 01:13:11,439
us, what if we start thinking

2513
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:12,680
about it in the context of us

2514
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:13,659
belonging to the land?

2515
01:13:15,930 --> 01:13:17,390
It will be here longer than us,

2516
01:13:18,859 --> 01:13:19,659
and

2517
01:13:19,609 --> 01:13:21,390
we are here to serve it instead

2518
01:13:21,390 --> 01:13:22,710
of it being here to serve us.

2519
01:13:23,130 --> 01:13:24,109
How would that change our

2520
01:13:24,109 --> 01:13:25,210
relationship and the way that we

2521
01:13:25,210 --> 01:13:26,010
show up?

2522
01:13:27,399 --> 01:13:28,380
Well, we learned that from

2523
01:13:28,380 --> 01:13:30,220
scripture that we are stewards

2524
01:13:30,500 --> 01:13:31,300
and

2525
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:33,190
that,

2526
01:13:33,210 --> 01:13:34,729
yeah, we just have this

2527
01:13:34,729 --> 01:13:36,609
opportunity for a moment in

2528
01:13:36,609 --> 01:13:37,409
time.

2529
01:13:38,199 --> 01:13:39,680
I think that's a lot better way

2530
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,390
to use it, to look at it,

2531
01:13:43,079 --> 01:13:44,720
because that's what humans have

2532
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:45,840
done is how do we manipulate

2533
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:47,960
something to get gain?

2534
01:13:49,819 --> 01:13:51,140
But how do we stay alive?

2535
01:13:51,159 --> 01:13:52,720
How do we feed our families and

2536
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,260
stay financially healthy and

2537
01:13:56,369 --> 01:13:59,050
live better and look at it in

2538
01:13:59,050 --> 01:13:59,850
that way?

2539
01:13:59,449 --> 01:14:01,109
I like it. I think it's a lot

2540
01:14:01,109 --> 01:14:01,949
better way to

2541
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:03,680
look at it. And I

2542
01:14:04,279 --> 01:14:05,079
think our

2543
01:14:05,130 --> 01:14:06,789
words matter a lot,

2544
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:08,859
the way we say things and the

2545
01:14:08,859 --> 01:14:10,140
way we

2546
01:14:11,279 --> 01:14:12,079
voice things.

2547
01:14:12,199 --> 01:14:13,220
And so I think

2548
01:14:14,079 --> 01:14:16,039
even saying

2549
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:18,380
or viewing it different, I think

2550
01:14:18,380 --> 01:14:19,180
will help a lot.

2551
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:21,029
Yeah.

2552
01:14:21,569 --> 01:14:22,710
Yeah. Because the words that we

2553
01:14:22,710 --> 01:14:23,710
use and those thoughts and

2554
01:14:23,710 --> 01:14:25,010
intentions end up manifesting

2555
01:14:25,010 --> 01:14:26,310
themselves in our lives and

2556
01:14:26,310 --> 01:14:27,110
other people's lives.

2557
01:14:27,149 --> 01:14:27,949
Absolutely.

2558
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:30,070
Yep.

2559
01:14:31,699 --> 01:14:32,680
Brad, this has been such a

2560
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:33,560
wonderful conversation.

2561
01:14:33,699 --> 01:14:34,659
I've greatly enjoyed it.

2562
01:14:35,029 --> 01:14:35,949
Thank you for all the work that

2563
01:14:35,949 --> 01:14:36,930
you're doing. Thank you for

2564
01:14:36,930 --> 01:14:38,550
being here. here and sharing

2565
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:40,250
your experience and your wisdom.

2566
01:14:40,670 --> 01:14:41,710
And I look forward to chatting

2567
01:14:41,710 --> 01:14:42,510
with you more soon.

2568
01:14:43,310 --> 01:14:44,329
I really appreciate it, John.

2569
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:46,069
It's been it's been a joy and I

2570
01:14:46,069 --> 01:14:46,869
look forward to more

2571
01:14:46,710 --> 01:14:47,829
conversations in the future.