167 | How to Handle Runny Noses, Licking, Spitting, and Germs in the Playroom: A Child-Centered Approach

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Carley in Oregon

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and Carley works with kids 3 to 18 in a rural town

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in a community mental health agency.

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And she's asking about

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managing germs in the playroom. Oh, my gosh.

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So tricky to navigate sometimes. So Carley.

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Thank you so much for your question and thank you for

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helping all of us to process this in a, in a helpful way.

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So I'm gonna read parts of her email and then I'll kind of unpack

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what my thoughts are and some tricks that I've learned along the way.

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Tools of the trade if you will.

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Ok.

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So Carley asks,

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I have a client who obsessively licks and spits on his fingers during play,

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which is very difficult to witness as he enjoys playing Uno or Candyland.

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I'm really not sure how to handle this in a child-centered way after

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setting the bottle of hand sanitizer on the table next to him.

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He used it twice and didn't,

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and I didn't notice him lick or spit his fingers after that.

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However,

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I also have kids who have very runny noses and as we're in the thick

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of allergy season right now I'm seeing more and more kids with runny noses.

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So I've silently offered tissues,

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set a bottle of hand sanitizer next to them or have said there's a

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bottle of hand sanitizer or a box of tissues here if you need them.

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This is something I've been thinking about recently and I worry

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about stepping out of the therapist role and into mom role

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at these moments of wanting to minimize the spread of germs.

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All right. So Carley, thank you so much. This is a really helpful question.

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I don't think I've ever addressed handling germs

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in the playroom before in an episode.

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So this was actually a really unique topic to bring up.

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All right.

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So let's start with the licking and spitting because I

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think these are actually related but very distinct issues.

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So I'm going to talk about the runny noses in a second.

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But let's address the specific client that licks and spits when he's playing.

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All right, I would categorize this differently because

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a child who is licking or spitting, that is a choice that the child is making.

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That is a behavior.

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Whereas a runny nose is not a choice, not a behavior, it's just a state,

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right? Child has a runny nose versus child is choosing to lick or spit.

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So I would actually kind of

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perceive these differently and then therefore handle them differently.

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So with a child who is licking or spitting and then therefore playing cards,

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which means his DNA is now all over the cards, right?

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This is something that we can address as

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a behavioral issue and therefore provide a limit.

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And let's pop quiz,

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we have three questions that we ask ourselves for setting a limit.

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And there are three unwritten rules about limits in the playroom, right?

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So

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if we recognize,

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I cannot allow this behavior to continue

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and still unconditionally accept the child.

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And then in this case, I think

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there's certainly a connection to allowing the behavior to continue.

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And even if I can still accept the child,

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I'm going to be worried about all the kids that come in after him.

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So it's going to influence the whole rest of my day with kids, right?

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So even if we cannot have an issue with that child directly,

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it's going to impact your work with other clients after the fact.

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So if that warrants a limit for you,

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then you would absolutely set a limit on that

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behavior just like you would set a limit on

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sand is not for taking out of the tray

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or

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the mirror is not for throwing hot wheels at because it can break, right?

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So in that scenario

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you would go through the ACT process.

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So you're going to reflect the feeling, acknowledge what is going on with the child.

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I suspect possibly,

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I don't know this for sure. I have not been in your sessions Carley,

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but I suspect maybe he has watched adults as

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they're flipping through papers or money or something.

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Probably sees them lick their fingers so that they can grab one

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piece of paper at a time or $1 bill at a time.

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So I'm wondering if he's mimicking something that he has seen

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where he's trying to keep his fingers a little bit moist

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so that they're better able to sort through the cards.

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That's a guess. I don't really know for sure.

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But regardless of the reason why the child's doing it,

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you can just reflect that the child is wanting

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to do that even if we don't understand why.

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So when we acknowledge the feeling, we might say,

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hm, you're licking your fingers before you touch the cards.

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So we don't really know why. We don't know if he wants to.

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He likes to, he feels he needs to.

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There's motive behind it.

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We don't know, but we can definitely just acknowledge what we see happening.

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So, oh, you're choosing to lick your fingers and then touch the cards.

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Ok. So that would be the acknowledgment, then we move into the neutral limit.

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But when you lick your fingers that gets germs on the cards,

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notice that it's neutral.

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You could also say,

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but your hands aren't for spitting on or your hands aren't for licking

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when you're playing cards.

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You could also set it that way.

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But notice that you want it to be completely neutral.

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So there's no judgment or frustration in it. It's just

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your fingers are not for licking while you're playing cards

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or your fingers are not for licking in the playroom.

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You could even do it broader because then maybe

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he stops doing it while he's playing cards.

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But then he does it while he's playing with the

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blocks and then you're right back to square one.

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So you could even go broader.

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But either way you're going to acknowledge what he's doing,

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you're going to then set the neutral limit and then you're going to give a choice.

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So your choices actually can go in a lot of different directions here.

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But you might say

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you can choose to go wash your hands and continue to play with cards

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or you can choose to put the cards up for the rest of the day, which do you choose?

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Ok, that would be one option.

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Another option is

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you can choose to

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not play with cards

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or you can choose to not lick your fingers and choose to play with cards.

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Which do you choose?

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There's all different options that you could throw in there because

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the goal is not that he can't play with cards.

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It's that he can't lick his hands and then play with cards.

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And I would absolutely set a limit on that behavior because what you mentioned,

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where you set the

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bottle of hand sanitizer on the table next to him,

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that was a subtle implication of I want you to clean your hands,

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which is no longer child-centered.

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So I understand you didn't necessarily want to bring it up directly.

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So you were trying to go with the subtlety there and many of us do that.

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We think that if we just like hint at something quietly that it's not directive,

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but it is so don't get caught in that trap.

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We just need to address it if it requires a limit.

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And in this case, I would absolutely set a limit on that kind of behavior.

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It's the same thing with kids picking their nose in session.

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It's not necessarily a fun limit to have to set,

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but it's necessary because we have to be considerate

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of other kids coming into the play room afterwards.

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All right.

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So now let's move on to the runny nose situation.

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So again, this is different because

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the child has no control over this.

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Also,

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you need to differentiate. I mean, all of us do.

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I'm not just speaking to you, Carley, we need to differentiate between

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runny nose because of sickness and runny nose because of allergies.

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These are two very different things,

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runny nose because of allergies. There's no contagion factor,

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runny nose because of sickness could infect a whole bunch of people.

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So that's why we have a very specific sick policy at the center.

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And if you believe that a child is sick,

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you need to send them home and not have a play session.

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Allergies are a little bit of a different story.

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They just have runny noses, but they're not necessarily going to infect anyone.

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Ok.

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So here's what I typically do with that kind of scenario.

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You just acknowledge what you see happening very similarly to how we

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acknowledged that he was licking his fingers when he was playing cards,

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we would say,

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hm, I see you have a pretty runny nose today.

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It has to just be stated out loud

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before anything else can be done about it

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because

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it needs to be addressed so that the child is aware that you have noticed and

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that they're aware that their nose is in

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fact running sometimes they're completely oblivious to it.

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So wow, your nose is super runny today or? Oh my goodness, you have a runny nose.

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So we just state it as a neutral fact, right?

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And then you can either use an I wonder statement

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and see what happens what

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the child chooses to do with an I wonder statement.

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So once you acknowledge that the child's nose is running, you could say,

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I wonder if you would like a tissue.

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Now, they can ignore you.

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They can say yes, they can say no,

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but you've at least wondered if they are interested in wiping their nose

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if they choose not to and, or they ignore you.

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So

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you have a 66% chance of their nose not

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being wiped and you're right back to square one.

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So if the child does not acknowledge your wonder statement and or just says, no,

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I don't want a tissue,

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then I would probably give a choice.

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The only way a choice works in that scenario is if the why is coupled with it,

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so I would probably say

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your nose is runny and there's lots of kids that play in here

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and other kids use the same toys that you're using

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and we need to make sure that they stay clean.

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So you can choose to wipe your nose on a tissue or

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you can choose to wipe your nose on a paper towel,

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which do you choose?

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Now notice that the choice becomes, how are you going to wipe your nose?

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Not whether or not you want to wipe your nose?

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But the why has to be coupled there

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because they need to understand that it's to keep the toys clean

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and that other kids are going to be using the toys

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and we don't want there to be germs on the toys.

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Kids understand cleanliness. Kids understand

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toys, not having germs. That's something that a very young age they learn.

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So as long as the why is coupled with that, you can use the choice

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and give them some power and control over how they choose to wipe their nose.

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Ok. So those are my two thoughts to answer those specific questions, Carley.

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And then let me share one final thing,

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Micro Ban,

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which I don't know if this is internationally

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available to all of my international listeners.

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But

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in the States Micro Ban is

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the most amazing thing.

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It is an aerosol spray. It is 24 hours of germ killing.

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So when I've had a kid with a runny nose

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or that licks their fingers or that spits or whatever,

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and I just feel like I want to just kind of disinfect

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anything that the child was kind of around.

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I can walk in and in like one minute I can have everything sprayed off.

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So Micro Ban is like a play therapist, dream trick.

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So get yourself some Micro Ban spray and then

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you can just kind of spray everything down.

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It dries quickly and that can be in your turnaround time in between clients.

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So that's one ninja trick.

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The second is Clorox wipes become your favorite thing for all hard types of toys,

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even like Uno cards, for example,

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you can just Clorox wipe anything

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really quickly. It dries fast. It doesn't ruin anything,

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obviously not on like leather or, you know, soft stuff,

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but anything that's hard or coated, you can use a Clorox wipe on.

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So that's a really helpful tool. And then finally,

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if something really needs to be like deep cleaned or truly disinfected.

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So, if a kid uses a whistle or a flute or

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what's the other thing that they always use, uh, kazoos

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if they, you know, put their mouth on anything

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and,

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or if they've had a runny nose or they've been

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picking their nose or they sneezed on stuff or whatever.

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I mean, if it truly needs to be cleaned,

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we set those toys aside in a dirty toy bin

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and they are actually removed from the playroom for the rest of

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that day or at least until we can get to cleaning them.

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So don't feel bad about taking a toy out if it is truly needing to be cleaned

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and like just a simple Clorox wipe isn't going to cut it,

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just remove it from the playroom. Keep it in your dirty toy bin that's reserved

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to be cleaned later

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and then as soon as you can deep clean it, then you can put it back in the playroom

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and that should eliminate the bulk of your concerns about germs in the playroom. So,

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Carley, thank you so much for the email and I hope that's helpful to all of us because

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gosh, working with kids is messy business sometimes and we have to know

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that the tricks and tips to kind of get us through that.

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So I deeply appreciate the email. Carley.

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Thank you to each and every one of you for reaching out and email me. I

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I'm so grateful that you all are so invested and so engaged. And

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I'm trying to get through these questions as fast as I can.

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But it really does mean a lot to me that you all are so committed to 

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CCPT and you're trying to make sure that

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you're handling things in the most effective ways.

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It makes me smile every time I hear from one of y'all.

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So speaking of, if you would like to reach out to me, I'd love to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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And if you would like deeper,

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greater, better, more discussions,

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then you definitely need to join the CCPT Collective.

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We have had so many people join in the last couple weeks.

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I'm so excited for the way that this is growing.

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It's our online community specifically for child center and play therapist.

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So if you're interested in that, please check it out ccptcollective.com.

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We'd love to have you in there

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and we have all kinds of veterans.

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We have graduates of the program that are CCPT rock stars.

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And then we have people still in school that, you know, are really, really new.

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So the whole gamut

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something for everybody.

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It's just, it's such a fun time and the weekly call, the Zoom calls are so much fun.

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We laugh and

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oh gosh, we just, we have a blast. So

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if you wanna check that out, want a community around you,

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we'd love to have you ccptcollective.com.

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All right, y'all love you guys. Thanks so much for everything that you do.

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Thanks for your work with kids. Thanks for hanging out with me.

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We'll talk again soon. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

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Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.

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Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.