You Win Some, You Lose Some: Challenges in Kids' Sports, Activities, and Beyond

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and ninety two, airing in early March of twenty twenty three. Today's topic is you win some, you lose some. Me talking about kid activities in general, managing competitiveness and disappointment and anything else along those lines. So, Sarah, I guess we should start with an inventory of what activities your family is currently doing. What do you have going on right now? Yeah, and we did do something similar to this at the beginning of the school year. But if anybody else's family is like our family, there are definitely shifts that go on across the gear. So we figured it would make sense to update. So currently, well, I'll give you the start and the current. So at the beginning of the year, Annabel was in tennis, gymnastics, and drama. They put on a play which was awesome, so that ended and tennis was dropped due to not liking it so much. So now she is only in gymnastics, although it is three times a week, so that keeps her somewhat busy. Cameron was in tennis, soccer, and gymnastics and then also did winter track. Track and soccer were like season events, so they both ended. He completed both of them. He had a good time, although they kind of conflicted of it, so he missed some track stuff because he seemed to prioritize soccer, and he did take a break from tennis because when soccer and track were concurrently going, he had like no other time. But right now, since those seasons are over, he's just in once a week gymnastics, which he does reluctantly a little bit, but doesn't mind. He sees it as conditioning, I guess. And then he has started ukulele lessons at school and we're trying to figure out his next sport because he really does enjoy doing sports. And a lot of downtime with no activities is not great for him. And then Genevieve was in ballet and gymnastics at the start of the year and she's still in both of those just once a week, and she now takes piano lessons at school and she's really enjoying it, so that's super fun. Our rule of THULMB in the family is something active and something artistic. I think yours is active and musical. Yeah, pretty much. I mean I almost don't want to go through the list because it's just so long long. At the moment, you just you know, five kids, you wind up with a lot of stuff. Jasper is doing Science Olympiad through his high school and also his vocal ensemble at school that's their select choir, and then he takes voice lessons as a supplement to that. He's doing racket sports as his PE class. They have elective PE at his high school, which is really cool. I think that would have massively improved my experience of physical education if that had been more common back in the day. And he's often taken tennis lessons. I think we're going to do that a little bit more seriously, like over spring and summer. It's just not really something you feel like doing in the winter so much. Sam this year is doing the something called TSA, which I think stands for Technology Student Association. He's at a new middle school this year, and so there's their first year and they wound up kind of cleaning up at regionals, so about fifty students are going to the state competition from that, so that's pretty exciting. He's in a Dungeons and Dragons club. He's in the jazz band and also takes alto sax lessons and is doing fencing as his physical activity thing. He also signed up to run sound for the middle school musical, so that is going to kind of take away from everything else for the next few weeks. But that's all good boy Scouts as well. Ruth is doing currently ice skating. I think that's going to end. We're trying to find something else for her. Trumpet lesson plus banding choir at school. She's also in the school musical, which is the current thing that's keeping her after school every single day right now, but that's going to end in two weeks and then figure out something else for her to do. Boy Alex, he's kind of another one who likes to he needs to do something active, so he's doing ninja karate, parkour, climbing, He's going to start swimming lessons soon. He and Michael go skiing at the moment on weekends, although that's going to end pretty soon as well as it eventually becomes spring. And Henry has been starting activities. He just started this little karate class because he's been attending everyone else's karate classes, so we knew all the little kicks and stuff, so he started that. He does a music class and it's going to be doing swimming lessons as well. So yeah, it kind of signs like a lot, and it kind of is. But I think we kind of share the philosophy that it's okay for kids to have some stuff going on because otherwise they're just often sitting around the house on screens. And truthfully, even with the schedules, there's still plenty of downtime time for playdates, time for just hanging around the house playing video games, doing whatever. So I don't think either of us, I mean, maybe with the high school, maybe with Jaspers age group. I don't know, you'll have to tell me, but I don't think either of us have reached the point where it's like every minute is blocked off and like we're definitely nowhere near that in our family. And it's a good happy medium. Yeah. Now it's still there is still a lot of downtime, and I think people don't necessarily see that, but if you map it out, there is. And I think I've even used the example of a one child, Well, Sam had you know, before school, jazz band. One day, he had an activity after school that I picked him up, brought him defencing. He comes home from fencing at like seven point fifteen, and so it's like, oh, he was gone from seven in the morning to seven at night, which is true, but then he still had like, you know, an hour and a half to do because he'd done his homework at school, or had like an hour and a half to play video games before he had to be you know, in his room for the night. And it's just like, okay, yeah, there's still downtime. Like, if you're that on a really busy day, you're still managing ninety minutes of video gaming, I think you're you're probably good. And it's true. I don't think Laura nor I have kids that are like so passionate about any one. I mean, I know there are those outlier kids, and we had that expert talk previously. If you have a kid that's incredibly passionate about one specific thing and has so much drive to be elite level in that thing, I think it could get to the point of like all encompassing your schedule. But I think most kids are not in that space. I think that space gets a lot of attention because it's interesting, but it certainly isn't the majority. Yeah, i'd also say that we're not doing you know, the athletic team competitions that take a long time right now. We've also sort of moved away from that to do more kind of sports that are individual and conditioning and things like that, you know, and maybe that'll change in the future of kids get interested in being competitive in particular field. But you know, even for instance, like Jasper's Science Olympiad competitions and Sam's TSA competitions, the kids go with the school team, like, you don't go as the adult like, so you just get them to the school to get on a bus at a certain time and pick them up when they're done. So it's kind of a different experience well, in this episode, we wanted to talk a little bit about sort of managing activities, Not so much the logistics of the schedule, because that's a topic I think we've covered before. And you know, as we said, we'd figure out the driving schedule and you get help with it, carpooling, you know, nanny's and after school sitters, splitting it with your partner, like, there's all sorts of ways to not be going crazy with that, But more the emotional aspects of you know, any sort of activity, which is that you win some and you lose some, and there's always people who are better than you, probably people who are not as good as you too, but it's sometimes harder to see that as well. So Sarah in terms of quitting because sometimes kids You've mentioned that people have started activities and then not enjoyed them so much. What is your thought about ending an activity when you do it, what's an acceptable way to do it, what's a good give it the old college try versus you know it's okay, cut your losses? What do you do in your family? Yeah, so, I mean I've had some challenges with this at times, in particular when kids are in two scenarios a when kids are really really young and if they don't like to do something and they've maybe just tried it, but I've paid for a season. It's like a very frustrating feeling to watch all the other four year old run around the soccer field and your kid is like absolutely not. Like That's happened to me multiple times with multiple different children, and I don't love that. But then I've kind of become accepting of the fact that when a child is that young, like what is the point, Like there's no lesson that they're learning. You probably it's the parent lesson that like that kid wasn't ready for that sport, or you know, this isn't fun for them at that at that age group, I don't necessarily feel and I think I used to feel like teaching sticktuitiveness is really important, and in fact, I think it might backfire. So I've become a little different in my approach when they're super young, although I'm quickly not having super young kids anymore. So that's that's the funny part about that. I guess I'd have to have some more kids to try that out, and that's not happening anyway. So when they're older and old enough to understand the concept of paying for an activity or the length of a season. My general policy is that if you have decided to sign up for set activity, and by the way, like when Annabel did tennis, she wanted to do it, I want to do it. Yes, I want to do it, like I never have put a kid in maybe with the exception of being like, okay, the two girls are in gymnastics at ten am, Cameron, do you want to just do it or sit down there and watch? And I've encouraged him to do it. That's a very specific scenario, but in general, I'm not like pushing anybody into any activity. So if they've chosen to do it, I'm not thrilled if three lessons later they're like, oh, it's hot, this is hard, I hate it. I quit. Like that's a little hard for me to take because it's like, you are old enough to understand that you signed up for something. I have paid money for something, We've committed to something, and I think you could give it, you know, a little bit more of a chance before deciding it's not for you. And generally my thought is either finish the season. If it's a sports team, finish the length of time I've paid for, So sometimes it's month to month, great finish the month, or like a natural cut point for a year long activity. I don't think i'd make a kid do a whole year. I would probably say, like by winter break, if they're not enjoying it, that might be time to stop and pick something else out. So I do discuss this with them now that they're old enough to understand for the most part, when they're signing up for something that this is kind of like what we're expecting them to follow through, and it's become less of an issue. I think, although you know, anything could happen. Yeah, well, we definitely had some resistance with swim lessons and Henry, but that's kind of a life skill and we have a pool, so he's got to learn. I mean, you know, that's a safety issue, which I think he'll be better about it now. Is just more you know, when you're a little and he'd always be he'd be more or less okay once he was in the water for a little bit. But there were definitely some swim lessons, like the parent child to gather swim lessons where he would just like refuse to do anything, just sit there and like yell the whole lesson. That was pretty funny, just that you could yell that long. I guess you can if you're determined to do so. It means there's excellent lung capacity and you just put that into blowing bubbles kid and you'll be great. Yeah. So with team sports, I would definitely say see it through the season. I mean, that's just a matter of supporting your team. I think it often helps for kids with a same thing with adults. Like anytime you have some commitment that you're really like unhappy about if it's time limited, like if it's not you know, something you've signed up for for the rest of your life, telling yourself how much time you still have to go with it can often keep it in perspective. So if the commitment of every soccer game is like two hours and you have five more on the schedule, like this is ten hours total of your life, Like it is not that much time, and it's more that you're making it like this mental thing like every week being you know, hanging over my head. It's like, well, no, just compartmentalize it. Ten hours might be you know, the amount of time since breakfast does the amount of sleep you got last night, like, it's not that much time. And I think, you know, that's an adult helpful tip as well, but it can you help children with it too. As for anything individual in the past, we've often had people go at least like a couple more times just to sort of make sure it's not a spur of the moment thing that like, oh, yeah, this was hard this one class, or you know, maybe one other person who is in it is acting difficult or whatever. You know, it's so try a couple more and if three sessions later you still want to drop it, then I think that would be acceptable. But yeah, you don't have to do things forever. I mean, we've certainly taken breaks from all sorts of sports, and I guess the one thing I would say with music, the problem is like everyone's terrible at an instrument at the beginning, and it's not fun until you're good, and so you do kind of have to stick with it for a while until I mean, if you're going to do it, it's going to become more fun. The upside of the kids doing you know, the band instruments, though, is that it's social and then you're with a group of people, and so that's kind of a different experience than like sticking it out with piano lessons, which nobody is doing at this moment. We're all in either voice or band instruments, which you can do communally. It's, you know, just a shout out to that idea that maybe give your kid an instrument. Don't forget about that orchestra. Yeah, you don't do much as I love piano, it is more of an individual thing unless and tell your kid is good enough to accompany people, which is going to take a long long time. So maybe seek out something more of an ensemble instrument, to have an extra thing that keeps you with it. What if a kid doesn't want to do anything? This was a question we've gotten from some listeners, right, Sarah, Yes, I think that's actually come across a couple of times, and I haven't run into this, but I worry about this, and I especially worry about it kind of like in the adolescent age group, because I've seen it in patience from like what are you into? And the parent will roll their eyes and be like nothing, like I can't get them do anything. They just want their phone and their friends. It makes me sad sometimes and then I'm like, well, I shouldn't judge. If this kid is happy with their phone and their friends and they have an act of social life, then great. But then sometimes they're not happy, and then it's like, okay, well maybe you'd be happier if you were on the swim team or the orchestra or like what whatever it is. So I haven't run into this. I think I would work really hard to find enticing things for those categories I mentioned. If my kid didn't want to join a sports team, totally fine. Do you want to take yoga classes? We can go together. It will be fun. Do you want to I don't know, like go hike, go on a hiking trip and like walk to like train for said trip, or like do some kind of art class, sculpting class, like something that's a little bit out of the box. Because I hope there would be something that would appeal to said kid, and I guess I would say I'd hope to make it a little bit of a project. But I haven't run into this specifically, and I think it can be really tough, and especially if there are mental health issues that start to creep up. In teams that lead to more like apathy or fear not wanting to do anything than it could be hard to tease out what's actually what they want and what is like underlying struggle. Yeah, well definitely, you know, team sports are not the only way to go, I mean, and we're, like I said, we're not doing many of them right now. The sports that people are doing are often more just that you take lessons and get your own exercise or they're very different. So like ninja classes, right, that's I'm going to do a shout out for that. For children who are not necessarily into basketball or something else with intense hand eye coordination like it, you know, you can use more parts of your body and do cool things. Or climbing that's another one. If you have not been playing with balls since infancy to like master the hand eye coordination and scoring baskets and whatever that kids kind of need to be competitive by even like late elementary school. Climbing is something that most people have not been doing, like almost no children have in an upper body strength, and so you're starting from a more even playing field, and if you happen to be brave enough to do it, then you can go pretty far in it pretty quickly, or just like any sort of physical activity. So yeah, it could be run with mom at the gym. It doesn't have to be anything like that. I generally try to because of that. I think we haven't necessarily run into the idea of kids wanting to do nothing, because it is so broad to say, well, is there anything physical you want to do? Is there anything musical or artistic or anything along those lines that you think might be enjoyable, And it's more about filling the time and having kids have fun and meet friends, and so for that, you know, kid wants to do something like Dungeons and Dragons club or whatever, it is, like that's totally cool. Like it's they're staying after school, they're having fun with friends. And so if there are people who are feeling like, oh, my kid is in an a tame sports like, it doesn't have to be that. I think, you know, have a much much broader perspective on it. They still have the yearbook, you know. There may be I don't I don't know, maybe there must be an event that was specifically when I was growing up that was like I never actually did it, but like I feel like that was like a very social thing that people did, and I'm like, what were they actually doing? And it was like an activity? Yeah, yeah, which is largely the point of it as well. Let's take a quick ad break and we'll be right back with more on you win some, you lose some. Well, we are back talking kid activities. You win some, you lose some. How we sort of manage the emotional aspect of activities and what kids want to do. So let's get to the topic of disappointment. So there's various types of disappointment that can come with activities. Sarah, what what have you seen? Okay? So I divide disappointment up into two categories. One is either like not making a team or getting a really small part in a play, and then the other one is being on a team that is terrible. So let's do one at a time. So we have dealt with the not making a team before. I'm not going to go into specifics. And here is where like this becomes difficult because I was reading some bloggers who were talking about how, like one wrote in particular, I'm not going to name her here, but about how she was frustrated that like her kids are She said mediocre, but that's not to me what they are the more average. Her kids are average, and it looks to her like everybody else's kids are amazing and they're making State and they're making the Olympics and whatever, and people don't talk about the failures. Not I think for me, it's not because I don't want to talk about failures, Like I'd be happy to talk about my kids failures, but I don't think my kids want me talking about their failures. And so past a certain age, you're just not going to go into specifics about the things that don't work out well. So I wish I could like talk about it more. But here's to say, I've had kids that didn't make various things, and generally it's been taken fairly well. Usually we try to prepa hair kids if they're trying out for something for that possibility, like remember they only keep a select number, and you haven't been practicing this much, or you're one of the younger ones. And then if they don't make it, often we make an offer to help them with skills, and sometimes said children take up on that offer, and other times they absolutely are not open to any criticism but kind of just move on, and so either way, I think that's that's been okay. I do think there's a place for encouraging kids to try things that don't have any cuts, like if they want to do a sport, as we said, individual lessons or like track and cross country are like infamous for just like letting anybody who wants to participate on the team, Like maybe you won't compete in every meet, but you'll get to train with everybody. And in a play, I'm actually really grateful that, like, so the only kid who's done much drama in the family has been Annabelle, but her the teachers have always been like small parts are really really important to the play, Like the ensemble can like make the vibe of the play, and so that's no one has minded getting smaller parts because they still see it as a really important contribution and a really important learning opportunity and it is still really intense and they get to do a lot. So that part's been fine, and I think emphasizing like you know, in a play, there's going to be very few people that have smaller parts and a big support of cast and everybody is learning and everybody's important. So that's been our approach so far. What about you with that type of disappointment. Yeah, I mean we've talked with various kids. I mean that the biggest upside of any activity. I mean again, unless you're going to the Olympics, which let's face it, we're not, nobody is like you know, it's like a couple of people. The biggest upside of any activity is the social group, right that it gives you a group of kids that you are hanging out with in a constructive manner. Every relationship is built on frequency, so the more you are seeing people, the closer you will be with them, the more likely then you have people to sit with at lunch and people who want to do play dates on the weekend and anything else like that. So even if you have a small part in the play, you are still with the group. You are getting to know the other drama kids and hanging out with them and having a good time with them. If you are not generally representing a team in competition, you are still getting to hang out with everyone and go spend your time doing the events and all that and getting to know the people as well. So it's as long as you're focused on that as the benefit, then I think it's fine. I totally agree that parntal constructive suggestions may not be taken or helpful. So this is years ago, so I feel like I can speak about this now because it's not a current situation. So many years ago Sam did wrestling, and it was when he first started. He was like in first grade, and he won frequently, like he won pretty much all his matches because he was a six year old boy who's like calm and methodical, like he didn't get disappointed if he lost, but he so, you know, because that he was just very focused on getting through the match, doing what he's supposed to do, and so he would win because a lot of little six year old boys are like bouncing all over the place. They can't focus for a mat anyway. So he'd went. But of course, after a year or two, a lot of the other kids were in pretty serious wrestling programs, so they would be doing wrestling camps, they would be doing year round wrestling, they would be have a private coach who would like work with them on stuff, and so I would, you know, it got a lot harder and he would start to lose, and so I'd ask him, you know, like, well we could do that, like do you want to do here's wrestling camps? Would you like to go to these? Like, you know, do you want to do these the summer wrestling program, do you want to do the you know a coach whatever? And he's like, no, no, it's not that he enjoyed losing, but I think he just he didn't want to do any of these things that I was suggesting either. And so you know, none of us were all that thrilled about going out to meets in rural Pennsylvania at eight am on Saturday, so that kind of went the wayside. We left it after a few years. So you know, it's it may not be helpful. I go back to Our Our Guest a few episodes ago, a year or tow ago at this point, but talking about for kids, especially as they get older, what you as a parent can offer are food, hugs, rides, and tuition, and really that should be it. And that's challenging. Like if you do have expertise in an area that it could be relevant and helpful, but often that you should channel into finding good programs and coaches and such who then they are giving more of the feedback and advice while you are providing the food, hugs, rides, and tuition. So you know, kids are their own people. You have to deal with that. I almost wonder if if he had been a little older and his friends had been the one to tell him about the camp and the coaches, like, he would have been like, oh, yeah, I'm doing that, mom. But because it came from you, like or parents, it's like, I don't know, Yeah, our kids they're not always into our suggestions and that's okay. They're their own people, yes, exactly their own people. What about a team that loses, so yeah, this is a this could be rough. Yeah, and this I don't mind sharing this because I mean to no fault of his own. Cameron was on a soccer team that had a wonderful coach. They were fantastic. This was are like it's called the Optimist League. It's fairly I would say, it's fairly serious as things go, and meaning like they had practices multiple times a week, games multiple times a week, but you know, everybody makes the team, and his team just happened to be filled with very inexperienced players. It turns out there may be a thing where like the veteran coaches kind of pick the players they know, so it might not have been entirely random. And I think this team did like an amazing job, but man did they lose. They lost and lost and lost, and it can get frustrating, I think for kids. And actually I think the kids took it better than a few of the parents. There were some parents that got really intense about like ref calls and stuff, and at one point my husband actually had to gently like put a message into our group What's up Chat that was like, remember, like the kids are doing it for fun. We want to teach them good sportsmanship. We want to teach them to overall respect the ref's calls, et cetera, and to really focus on compliment And the coach did so amazing with this, really complimenting the kids on anything that went well during a losing game, like oh yeah, who cares we lost, but like we scored two goals against this, like tough defense and like this kid got their first goal and you know you block that shot. So focusing on the little wins, not taking the outcome of any kid event too. Seriously, Yeah, I think those are been like nampus and making sure the parents can rein it in and remember why we're all there have been the big things for us. Yeah, we briefly wound up on the other side of that with a soccer experience that one of my children randomly got on, like the really good team that many of the kids have been playing together for a long time, with a set coach that was you know, came in to do it, and it was it was just funny because yeah, they won every game, which was quite fun for my kid, but it was probably not so fun if you're on the other side of that. There are people who figure out ways to make youth leagues work for them and it's not always random. But yes, good to be, good to be you know, philosophical about all these things. I would say one one thing to keep in mind if your kid is kind of bored with an activity because it isn't challenging enough, then I think there might be a as a parent, you can step in and suggest other things, like, you know, would you like to audition for this select ensemble? Right if the school band, choir orchestra is maybe not quite as up there and we haven't necessarily had this experience because they're they're pretty good, but definitely seen this. You know, if it's a music program that isn't serious at a school, like looking around your community for something else that the kid can do, as opposed to saying well this is just what it is. You know, they might lose more interest if they aren't around peers if they are taking it seriously. So that's I think that's somewhere that a parent could step in. That's a little bit beyond the food rides, hug tuition saying you know, I'll pay tuition and rides to get you somewhere better if you are willing to do that, and I'll help you look into it. So just an idea there. And yeah, well we already talked a little bit about the idea of comparison and competitiveness of kids. Yeah, I guess, And just in general, I mean kids have to navigate their own way in life and anything. School activity is all part of this that you're figuring out how to set a goal, to take the steps toward it. And you know, in life there isn't always going to be a straightforward path, and so having somebody guide you completely through things is not always helpful. I mean it may be in the short term in that you are you get the benefit of of somebody who has done this before showing you what to do, and that can be cool in its own way, but as a life skill, I mean I think about this all the time. With something like writing books as a career, people are like, well, what should I do in order to make my career writing books? I'm like, well, it's not like there's a you know, do this major in college and then you get this job exactly out of college, which you know is a set thing you can do, and then you I mean, people don't even get that, Like getting a literary agent is its own like sort of lottery lottery process more or less, and you know that you have to figure that out. And I don't know anyway, there is a lot of having to understand what are the steps, looking around, talking to other people. And so I think the more you let kids direct what they are doing and figure out on their own that they want to improve and how to improve, and then you support whatever they ask for, that the better you are. So that's what I've tried to see my role as. So you know, I've Tuger recently, like Jasper asked to take voice lessons and so we went and found him a teacher, and now he is doing that, and I think that's really cool that he, you know, saw that some of the more skilled singers in his choir were doing that, and he thought, that's what I want to do in order to be up there as well. And I had another thought, which is that what kids actually choose to do out of the realm of options is so arbitrary. Like I was just reflecting back on like, you know, I was playing violin and cheerleading, and I don't do either of those things today. Be kind of funny if I did, well, not the violin part, but cheerleading. And yet, like what do you take away from activities? You take away like some degree of persistence you take away kind of like learn how to learn and learning how to practice. You take away how to be part of a team and work with others. And there are like so so many different ways you can do those things. Most don't involve going to the Olympics, as we mentioned, And so probably like providing all the options and then leaving well enough alone is like makes the most sense, because like, what are you really going to do anyway? Yeah, exactly, probably not much of it, although I'm still singing, so yeah, but we wanted to take a brief foray into competition sort of between children, that sometimes kids can get very competitive, both with other kids and their own siblings too, which is the weird place where you see it the most. Have you had any experience with kids being like really competitive in anything, yet? I think it helps that the age and gender and interests facing of my kids has not led to a lot of overlap. You asked if my sister and I were competitive, I would say not terribly, because we did both play piano, but then I like kind of shifted more to violin and singing and my cheerleading stuff, and like she didn't do any of those things, and she got really really good at piano and was more artistic. Like we just kind of like found our own lanes, and I generally see my kids doing that as well. I definitely have seen some families, like again looking back at patients, where they're like, oh, they all play golf, and I'm like that must be hard, Like what if one of them's like really good and the other ones aren't as good? So I guess, I mean, I think it's helpful if people have not the same interest in a family, But that's not always something you can help. Or maybe the younger siblings are really really inspired by a successful older sibling. So I mean this is hard. Yeah, I was doing a little bit of research on this just to see what was out there. I mean the general consense is be very you know, a that you want to compliment everyone on how hard they are working, so understanding that the outcomes may be different for the same amount of effort put in various things. And so if one child is really struggling to get a good grade in English and the other is acing it, just to be aware that both may be working very hard, and to make sure that you are complimenting all of their hard work to getting what they are doing. Making sure that you don't give people labels, so you don't have one kid who's the athletic one, one who's the smart one, one who's the artsy one. That's not helpful because everyone has their own things. So even if you're doing it a sense of like, oh, you know, Joe, he's so musical. We always love hear the Joe's you know in his music, Like maybe Joe then wants to try fencing or hot climbing, and Joe thinks, well, I shouldn't because I'll never be good at it because I'm the musical one and my brother's the artist, the athletic one. So be very careful never to label kids like that. But that also, sibling rivalry isn't the end of the world. It is preparation for the real world. So even if as long as it's not incredibly negative and toxic in your house, that as long as you are being positive and showing that you know there are great things and celebrating everyone's wins, there are going to be situations where your colleague is better than you at something and you are just going to have to deal with that, or you've got a sharp elbowed other colleague who wants that promotion as much as you do and you are going to have to Only one of you is going to get it, and you're going to have to deal with that. And so it's not that dissimilar from you as a junior and your sibling as a sophomore both being in that golf tournament and you are competing in the exact same thing, and so it goes it's kind of a preparation for life. I just realized my husband and his brother had a ton of overlap, and they were like just two years apart. Both ran track, both did basketball, and I think mostly they like inspired each other like and they would go for weekend runs together as a signed by their cross country coach or whatever. So I guess you know that seemed to work out. Okay, they picked wildly different careers, but they had similar interests and were known for similar things in high school, so it can work. Yeah, yeah, although I do I think a lot of families, kids often do wind up choosing a lane. Like, even if they are sort of interested in the same thing as one of their siblings, they may decide to focus on something else just to have their own space, just because everyone wants to be their own person, even if you, as the parent, do not need to label each person as you know, she's my violinist, she's my piano player, she's my and so forth. So switching to the question segment here, I'll direct this one to Sarah because I think she knows more the one who this is for a long time listener says that as camp registrations begin, she is impressed by Sarah's ability to wean herself off social media. She wants to do the same. However, she learns about so many things in her school, her camp, her community, information and activity for her kids through social media. For instance, she would not have known to check the camp's web page for information about registration if she hadn't gotten the prompt on Facebook that like, hey, we're opening up for registration like here. If you're following that camp's web page, you know, then you go on. So how do you manage to get the information you need to manage kids' schedule and activity is without social media. She says she's also found that buy nothing groups have been a lifesaver for obtaining and getting rid of baby and kid gear, and she's not sure how she can do that without being on Facebook. Well, I guess my first comment would be Facebook has been around since what like two thousand and five or so, and people probably found other ways before that, so it's not the only way. But my main answer is, I do think there's a regional component to this, because I found out from somebody else that, like, in her community, like every activity has a Facebook page and that's all they use. And so if that's the reality for you, then I think I would just have a Facebook account that was just that. It would just be like my kids sports page is period the end, like nothing else, so that would be what I would do. I haven't had to do that at all because where I live, people tend to use What's Up for almost everything, with the exception of a couple things that use an app called stack Team, which like is random, but like my kid's soccer uses it and ballet uses it, so it must be like popular down here. What's Up I find super easy because I don't have it on alert, so I can just look at it when I want to. And yet you know, you get all your soccer information or your kids, all our kids classes and stuff like that the school, like everything's there. Every once in a while someone will send me something on like the community Facebook page that I didn't see, but I honestly I've never missed anything like concerning, and I guess I use word of mouth a lot, Like if I'm at a birthday party, I'm like, so, what's everybody doing for camp? And talk about it and then we share and I find out that way. And since I tend to plan ahead for things, I never feel like I missed out on something, so I do think again, if there's a regional component to this. If you're somewhere where everything is Facebook, then join Facebook just for that, and then you're still not really using social media if that's the only groups that you are part of, and if not, then you may have other options like we have here. Yeah, I would say try to use social media in a very limited manner if it's not going to work, to have it completely out of your life, because there's a huge gap between checking Facebook two times a week to see, you know, what's on your buy nothing group, or if you're trying to put something out on the buy nothing group, you may have to check it for the next day to make sure that it's out the door. But like, you don't then have to stay on Facebook for hours every day because you did that right, Like, you can use it for what you are intending to do with it and then move on to the rest of your life. So I don't know, set if you are things you want to check in on, like set a timer for something like ten to fifteen minutes and then stop. It's I think where people have trouble with social media is when it becomes an automatic thing that you do with your time, like it's the first place you go when you have time you're in line, or time that you know after your kids went to bed, like what am I doing with myself? And here you are scrolling around on various social media pages. Then it can consume a lot of time that you might have preferred to use for something else. If you have a specific reason you are going on it to look at something and then to get off, it can be a lot less toxic. So I think using it in that way, in a very limited fashion and seeing if you can do that, Like if you are able to set a timer for ten minutes three times a week and confine all your social media to that, you're good, right, Like, that's totally fine. If you find that you cannot do that and you cannot get yourself away from the soul sucking downside that every time you go to your neighborhood buy nothing group, next thing you know, you're looking through all your old high school classmates and seeing what cars they're driving or whatever like that, then you may have to take more drastic measures and have a yard sale instead of doing a buy nothing group or something like that. So Love of the Week, Sarah, what do you have this week? Well, it got a race. So I'm trying to remember when I sent you. Oh yeah, it was working in airports, because oh okay, it's like something comes over me when I get there early and I have like an hour and there's like nothing else to do, and I know I'm going to like read and watch TV on the plane, but the airport is like, okay, I've Internet for sixty minutes, Like what can I do. I'm usually like such a machine and I love it, and like I like the white noise of the people all around me. And maybe like usually I've gotten something caffeinated and that helped too. But yeah, I really enjoy working in an airport. I find it almost impossible to work in an airport. I work on the plane. On the plane, I am a machine. Like from the time I can pull out my computer until the end of the flight, I can crank out all sorts of STUF because they're zero distractions. I mean if I'm by myself, I mean with kids, it's a totally different matter. But yeah, because then I don't usually have the Internet on my computer, and so I'm writing drafts of stuff or editing things, and I can get through a lot, you know, in a short period of time. But when I'm in the airport itself, it's like they're making announcements, like people are going past you. Our internet Philadelphia is pretty crappy, and I try not to get there that early anyway, So it's, uh, yeah, I never find myself able to work in airports. Huh. I think on the plane, I like it. Really, I'm either tired or like slightly anxious, so I don't work well. So and I think I like back, I thrive on, like the background noise. Okay, interesting, interesting, So I guess mine's going to be my Stanley. I was influenced, Like, speaking of influencer stuff, I was influenced to bias Stanley, although actually it was between you know, it was people in my real life who influenced me. So Sarah, I have another friend who has a large Stanley. She does in order to work from home and not have to leave her office right that to get something to drink. She is a giant Stanley to get her through the afternoon, so no one sees her. But yeah, it's you know, nice, keeps my water cold. I like the straw. That's the upside. I think the straw and the cold part makes it a more attractive proposition to drink your water. So yeah, I totally drink more when I have that with me. So I'm sure other options would also work. But yes, there are probably many companies who make insulated thermoces all cups, yeah, called tall cups with straws, so you can avail yourself of any of those. The Stanley itself was totally just be part of the cool clubs. If they want to sponsor us, we are here that we both drink out of the Stanley mugs. People, so get on it, get on it all right. Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking, you win some, you lose some, just to look at kids' activities and how to manage some of the more emotional aspects of it. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.