Behind the Scenes Minis: Colette, a Mixed Bag

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We talked about Collette all this week. We sure did, Yes, I am ninety nine sure that when we were in Paris and I took a little trip off of our official planned things to go to Parlashes that I went to her grave. I cannot find photographic evidence of this, and uh, in my pictures, I'm pretty sure I did that, though I do have a picture of There's a map as you enter that shows you where various notable people are buried, and I definitely have a picture showing me on the map where Collette's burial was, so that I have. I had a cat named after her. Yeah, was your cat a mess? No? Well sort of. This is a little bit sad, but you may remember because this cat passed when I was when we were working together, we had not had her for very long, and we didn't know that when we adopted her. She was quite sick, so we didn't have her for a very long time. But she was very beautiful and kind of a hilarious drama queen, So it seemed sort of perfect for her. Yeah, I remember when that happened, but I had forgotten what her name was. Yeah. One. There are various things that came up in research that did not make their way into the episode, which always happens. One of the things that particularly stuck out to me, though, was that Um when she was writing Sari, which a lot of people mistakenly believe was about like inspired by Bert Trauma, which no, she wrote SERI before they ever met, or at least had had at least written a bunch of it instarted publishing it serious serially before they ever met. But her husband and his father I read Juvenil. He was not a fan of that book, and so as I was, I was like, was he psychic? Did he have a premonition, or did he otherwise think this book suggested things about his wife that he found troubling. I sure found that. I don't even like using the word relationship for weird. Like clearly at the time, that's how everybody was describing it, and they saw it as a relationship, but it was it was gross. Um. A lot of stuff she said about it was gross her. It's it's way more obvious from accounts at the time that a lot of people found a lot of the things that um we lead did in their relationship to be really gross. Um So it's like aspects of that I think have have a lot of the same connotations then as now. But I think Collette and Bertran has like a slightly different nuance today than it did at the time. That just makes it particularly upsetting. Yes, and I do wonder if some of a Ree's issue with it had more to do with like, while it was I don't want, I don't even know if accept it is the right word, more common for older men to date much younger women or even girls, the flip was not always the case, and I wonder if that was part of why he had issue with it. But then it also is it almost seems like she manipulated that fact and the idea that she would not ever be seen as predatory in that whole relationship, because it's not as though he aimed to her and was like ardently like I am in love with you, as inappropriate as that would still be by today's standards. Those sorts of relationships have certainly played out where a younger man pursues an older woman, it seems like she very much was driving the bus. Yeah, she was at least very heavily steering the bus. Um. And there are accounts that make him that to sort of describe him as more actively involved in pursuing her at the beginning, or at least feeling captivated by her in some ways. But like, yeah, it's still it's still gross, it's very grass um. Also, the all of the part about how it really does seem like both she and Maurice we're almost oblivious to what was happening. And I mean, surely they were not the only people who were almost oblivious to what was happening in France and in Paris during the uh the Nazi occupation, but we have talked about so many other people on the show who were more like, we have got to get out, and we have got to get out now, um. And it was incredibly late in the game when they started being like, we might need to get out of here. Well. And I think this kind of ties back to that quote we included at the end from Maurice where he said that for thirty years, you know, he lived in a fairyland with her, And I think that's it's not entirely uncommon to read about people in certain social strata or even artistic social strata, to just kind of feel themselves outside of any of the realities that other people go through, which is pretty obvious, you know, considering that she didn't really engage with any of the politics of her life ever now, But yes, it does even incredibly foolish in retrospect. And also like, why are why are you publishing in these papers that are actively harmful to the person your husband is, Like why so many things that have gotten into that to some degree, or like even if we're charitable, this was bad Like and I think I said pretty much that, but like, we don't actually know if we need to be charitable. We have we know so little about her personal thoughts, about her decision making process. Um, so it's like being charitable is extending her a whole lot of benefit of the doubt, right, it's a it's a great deal of grace for someone we don't Yeah, and I don't really know, um if Maurice left his own perspective on what it was like to be living in Paris during that time, and like being made to wear a yellow star, we don't really know. I don't Maybe this has written somewhere, but I didn't find it, Like I we don't know if Collett's characterization of him seeming almost unbothered by that, like if that was right or not, or if that was also kind of flippant and oblivious. Man, I just have such complicated feelings about her. Yes, uh, I mean when I was doing the research, I was like, Yeah, you're gonna become a mome and start like publishing stories yourself so you can get away from your awful husband who's being really exploited, your your create weight. You're gonna do what what are you doing? I'm sorry? What can I just tell you? Reading and like talking about the constant ebb and flow of people's various romantic partners in and out of Woodlock, who is jealous of whom it's I'm like, man, this is exhausting. I'm too. Um. I watched the the recent biopic starring Cure Nightley for fun really as I was working on this um and a couple of things just stuck out to be one. It just it was constantly funny to me that it is a movie about France, about someone who was a national icon in France. Um, everybody has a British accent right, like it would it would have been incredibly weird if everybody had a French accent. Also, but the fact that it just in so many ways um felt almost like a British period piece, which it definitely was not, like that just kind of tickled me. Um So as I was watching it, and I was sort of, you know, knowing at that point, having researched her whole entire life, knowing that the uh, the movie was not gonna at all cover the whole entire life. I as I was watching it, I was like, I'm pretty sure this movie is gonna stop before we get to the part where there was this love triangle between Missy and August and Collette, and also Collette started sleeping with her married boss, like and I was just like, this is such a gigantic tangle and feels like so much work to me. Also, that movie, While I enjoyed watching that movie, it definitely makes it's very sanitized in terms of the ending. Like a lot of movies like this, there's a series of title cards at the end, kind of like suggesting what happens after the action of the movie is over, and it almost reads like Collette and Missy lived happily ever after for many more years, and that is a hud, not what happened. Yeah, exhausting. I think it came up in our Your Song episode. But you mentioned, you know, when she started wearing trousers that that was still illegal. It was illegal until the twenty teens in France. Technically on the books. Just I always find that all areas. Obviously no one was pursuing that law and like holding anyone accountable, but it didn't get revoked until the twenty teens, which I find hilarious. It was one of those things where the law was more used to harass people whose whose behavior was being seen as a problem in some other way. Yes, so someone like Missy who had some question marks around things like gender and sexuality, there might actually be not as many questions. There are question marks in my mind, just because like I don't have that much information about missing each but like definitely things like those laws about trousers were being used to harass people. Yeah for sure, I mean that laws from the seventeen hundreds. But I just as a funny factoid, I think it's fascinating that it was still there. Lurkin, if you have traveled to Paris to the two thousand's until the I can't remember it was that it finally came off the books. But like, yeah, very recently, you were also in violation of the law if you were a woman wearing pants. Right. Ah. My only other comment is ridiculous. Okay, Maurice just barely didn't live long enough to see Star Wars. That's all that. Oh that's great. Like, Oh, Maurice, if you had hung on four more months, she would have had your mind blown. Yeah. Yeah, I'm similarly, I have not read either of Maurice's memoirs. I am curious. He fascinates me a little bit. Um. It really does seem like his their relationship seems like it was really good for Collette. She in terms of like, is your life going to be a continual factory of chaos and drama? Like, seems like not so much anymore once she and Maurice got together. Um. And the things that I have read about the like the way he talked about her seemed really loving and devoted. Um. And so maybe at some point I will dig up copies of translations of those memoirs um. Apparently the one about his becoming a father at age seventy one is really touching. Um. Yeah, I think if you think about his level of just absolute adoration and devotion to her, it might inform a little bit of like why she would think he had no problem wearing a yellow star one of the Nazis, because I'm sure he would not have told her he was troubled. He never wanted to trouble her in any way. Yeah, that makes sense, and only take care of her. I could see him being like, no, it's fine. It probably wasn't how could it be, but to her, oh, he's fine, he said he was fine. Yeah. Well, and the same about his being in that internment camp, because the tonament camp made it sound definitely very unpleasant. He probably was kushioning that also and to protect especially considering like the complex nature of her using her influence to secure his release and that having been done through channels that were not cool. Um. I think that probably also dampened his willingness to say anything negative about any of it, right, Like I don't want to I don't want to make waves, I don't want to call attention. I'm not rocking any boats. I'm stirring zero snakes, Like just everything's fine, honey, everything is fine. I'm good, I'm with you. Maurice becomes the really interesting one in this story. Yeah, yeah, I'm very I'm interested at some point, probably too, to learn more about him. Um. I also will confess that I I sent you the quotes that he said about her, Yes, because of course it makes me weepy deep eye. I found them very touching. The first one that we read that was like, and then her work became more subtled. I was like, that almost comes out as a little patronizing to me, but I still was very touched by it. Oh see, it doesn't to me because I know exactly what that experience is, to be a wild animal and then find your person and then suddenly you feel much more serene. Yeah, I feel at all patronizing and like, yes, that's an accurate description of what can happen if you eat the right person. Well, happy Early Valentine's Day, everybody who mixed bag a mixed bag. Maybe that's what we should have titled these episodes. We can have custom conversation hearts printed that just say mixed bag and it'll be perfect, perfect whatever is happening on your weekend. I hope it's good. If it's not good, I hope you're able to take a moment, maybe get something that's a little treat in some way, maybe have just a minute to yourself. We'll be back tomorrow Saturday Classic. We'll be back next with brand new episodes, and you can subscribe to the show on the I heart Radio app or wherever you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.