AvTalk Episode 286: Leis, strikes, and stripped for parts

AVT 286 Transcript
EPISODE 286
[EPISODE]
[0:00:07] IP: Hello, and welcome to Episode 286 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik here, as always
with –
[0:00:15] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Ian, how was LA and all of the airplane related things in LA last
weekend.
[0:00:21] IP: It was fantastic weekend. Dorkfest and SpotLAX were just absolutely mobbed with
aviation-loving folk. I was blown away by how many people turned out. Brett Snyder of Cranky
Flier Frame told me that there were over 300 people for the ramp tour that took place before
Dorkfest proper.
I handed out along with Brett's son 527 raffle tickets at Dorkfest and then there were at least, I
want to say 150, 200 people at the NYC Aviation Event, at the Proud Bird later in the evening
and then maybe 100 or so at the Donuts on the Hill on Sunday morning. So, all in all, just
fantastic amount of fun and a great weekend.
I had a number of podcast listeners come up to me and ask if I was here as always with, and I
had to spend the entire weekend saying no, and you can blame Newark.
[0:01:27] JR: Yes. I mean, you can always blame Newark. That's always a safe way. It doesn't
even have to be aviation related. You can blame Newark for like work or like not getting a raise
or whatever. But yes, I was busy doing train and train related things on last Saturday.
[0:01:42] IP: Train and train –
[0:01:44] JR: Airplane and airplane related things. Thank you, Hank Hill. But sorry to have
missed it, but I didn't miss the podcast and we didn't have to scramble to record anything. So,
that's –
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AVT 286 Transcript
[0:01:52] IP: There you go. Yes. We'll talk a little bit more about Dorkfest a little bit later in the
episode. I had a lovely chat with Kevin and Rudy who run Airline Videos Live in the LAX area
and are constantly putting out high quality videos from LAX. Many of you may know him from
the now infamous Lufthansa 747 landing, and we'll hear more about that a little bit later in the
show.
But last week, we were wondering when is the Department of Transportation going to figure out
what's going on with the Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines merger. The Department of
Justice says, “Hey, we got no problem with it.” Usually, a few days later, the Department of
Transportation says, “Okay, have at you.” But that didn't happen this time around, and now we
know why. Jason, tell us what we've learned with the now approval of the merger between the
two airlines.
[0:02:57] JR: Yes. It did not take long to go from the DOJ to the DOT approval for this, but as
Jon Ostrower said, this is becoming the DOT approvals kind of a vehicle for the Biden
administration’s let's say overarching theme of trying to enforce airlines being better to
passengers. In this case, the DOT didn't make them divest any slots or do anything drastic, but
there were very passenger-centric protections that Alaska/Hawaii must adhere to for a while,
which isn't out of the ordinary for things. We saw things like this mandated by the DOJ for things
like the Sprint, T-Mobile merger. But in this case, there are a few key points that the DOT
mandated and Alaska agreed to saying, “This doesn't really matter. It's not material. Of course,
we'll do it.”
The biggest one would be protecting the value of reward. This is big news for anyone else who's
seen the DOT investigation into the devaluing of frequent flier miles. We've all been there. Let's
say you have 100,000 miles and you say, “Great, I'm going to reward myself with a free-ish flight
to Asia.” Suddenly, the airline of your choice turns around and says, “Actually, we're cutting the
value of your points in half.” With no notice, you're now going to need 200,000 points for that.
Kind of not cool, but in this case, the DOT is a part of one of the stipulations for the merger
says, “There are some protections that you must put in place for your combined rewards
program. One of them is no expiration date for miles earned under the current programs.
Transfer of miles at a one-to-one ratio between Hawaiian and Alaskan.” And I think you can
actually do that starting today. “Maintaining the value of miles. So, the combined airline must not
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AVT 286 Transcript
take any actions that would devalue Hawaiian miles, and they must maintain the value of each
unredeemed Hawaiian miles earned prior to the merger closing, they must match, maintain, or
increase status.” Interestingly.
So, if you have Hawaiian status or Alaska status, they will now effectively be matched either at
the same level or at a level higher with the other airline. I quote, “No new junk fees.” It says the
combined airline must not impose change or cancellation fees on reward redemption tickets.
That's a big one because booking a reward ticket is pretty nice. There's really no cancellation
fee, no change fees associated with that, which is nice. Some other non-mileage items are
maintaining critical inter-island and continental routes.
This is really looking to maintain Hawaiian Airlines' rural island community flights, they say, so
Alaska can't go in and cut all of the intra-island flights that Hawaiian has operated for decades,
preserve support for essential air service in both Alaska and Hawaii, ensuring competitive
access to the Honolulu Hub Airport, which is interesting. I'm not sure exactly what they can do
there, but they just cannot discriminate against new entrants in Hawaii, guaranteeing fee-fee
family seating, which I think is a wider initiative of the DOT right now. Providing alternative
compensation for delays and cancellations caused by the airline, which is interesting because
apparently Hawaiian Airlines does not, and Alaska does currently provide a travel credit or
frequent flier miles when there is a controllable delay caused by the airline.
We know Hawaiian is historically a very punctual, very reliable airline, but now that things are
being commingled with Alaska, they want to ensure that there's some sort of compensation
scheme put into place. The lowest one on the list of bullet point items here is lower-end cost for
service members and their families. The two airlines are supposed to lower cost for the nation's
military and their families, a significant population in both Alaska and Hawaii by waiving certain
fees, which I think is interesting. But again, I think this is something Alaska already does where
if you're a surface member traveling to Hawaii, you get like 14,000 free checkbacks or
something like that. I guess that'll move over to Hawaiian as well.
So, none of these really seem like showstoppers at all and that would mean –
[0:07:21] IP: I mean, Alaska basically said, “We're doing all this stuff anyway.”
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[0:07:25] JR: May as well formalize it.
[0:07:27] IP: Sure. It didn't seem like one of those things where there was much to even discuss
between the DOT and the airlines. I think that the DOT was concerned that any changes to the
combined program would be brought down to whatever the lowest common denominator was.
But it didn't seem in any discussions along the way that Alaska was going to come in and stop
doing intra-island flying, or they were somehow going to stop doing the Alaska milk run. That
just never seemed like.
[0:08:02] JR: They could never.
[0:08:04] IP: It was going to be something. These, I guess, directives, protections for
consumers will remain in effect for six years following the consummation of the merger, which
was today, the 18th of September. So, six years from Today, Alaska could say, “Okay, no more
intra-island flying,” I guess, if they really wanted to, but not until then.
[0:08:27] JR: Yes. It is, I mean, six years feels like a long time from now, but it is something the
industry will have to keep their collective eyes on because companies have a history of trying to
pull the fast one. The day the government restrictions are lifted, they will do all sorts of things to
undo what the government mandated they must do to merger.
In some cases, I keep going back to the T-Mobile, Sprint merger, but in some cases, they'll try to
do it ahead of time anyway and see if anyone notices. Someone always does. We'll see. Six
years is a long time from now, though. But there’s also, I wouldn't call it a shake-up, but a
changing of the guard of the C-suite at Hawaiian Airlines as Alaska Airlines' regional president
for Hawaii and Pacific region now becomes the CEO of Hawaiian Airlines. This is something that
was always planned in advance that there'd be a transition of CEO power, I guess, which is
interesting because in this case, we have Hawaiian Airlines is still going to remain an
independent brand of Alaska Air Group.
So, the two, I guess, at least for the time being, are going to have separate and distinct
corporate management and oversight, at least for now, which is very different than we all know
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how the Alaska Virgin America integration theater did not go. Things seem to be very different
this time. Hawaiian isn't going away. They're not going to dismantle the fleet overnight. They're
still taking delivery of the 787s, the A321neos this time, we think are going to remain in the fleet
because Alaska doesn't have aircraft comparable to it that can do something like Honolulu to
Phoenix, realistically. So, there are a lot of similarities, but also some very stark contrasts this
time.
[0:10:16] IP: Yes. They actually wanted this particular airline rather than a case of dog catching
car when it came to Virgin America.
[0:10:24] JR: Wouldn’t know what to do with it.
[0:10:28] IP: Which I think, anybody who was around for Virgin America as a passenger and,
well, as an employee, I suppose, is a little salty about that.
[0:10:36] JR: Yes. But here's the combined fleet. Three hundred and fifty aircraft, which
includes two currently, two 787s, 24 Airbus A330s, which is interesting because as Jon Ostrower
points out, once again, Alaska Airlines is now the second largest Airbus widebody operator in
the US. Isn't that fun? Eighteen A321neo, 235 Boeing 737s, 19 717s, 44 Embraer’s E175s, and
8 dedicated freighters split between 737, 700, 800, and three A330 freighters. That is quite the
varied fleet for an airline that is really only known for operating 737 NGs and a couple of MAXs.
[0:11:21] IP: Yes, and one particular MAX.
[0:11:24] JR: Well, not anymore.
[0:11:24] IP: Not anymore. They don't own that aircraft anymore. Yes. It's going to be really
interesting. I mean, from an aircraft perspective, to see what Alaska does with the fleet. I don't
think we'll see any changes in the near term, but it'll be certainly something that we can keep an
eye out for, especially if we start seeing Airbus aircraft come onto the secondary market and
who snaps those up.
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AVT 286 Transcript
Speaking of Boeing aircraft, Boeing's not making many aircraft at the moment. 737 production,
767 production, and 777 production is currently halted as the Boeing Machinist Strike enters its
second week. Boeing has gone ahead and said we are halting shipments from our suppliers
because Boeing generally pays for whatever those shipments are upon shipment or upon
receipt. So, not accepting any shipments allows them to keep some cash on hand. They're also
doing a whole bunch of other things to try and preserve cash. One of those is letting contractors
go, so, most of these, as described by Dominic Gates at the Seattle Times, are folks who have a
long tenure in the engineering division of Boeing who were brought back after retirement to help
Boeing fix a bunch of its problems. Those folks have been let go for the moment, though as
Dominic Gates also noted, that's not airplane production, so interesting that you choose to start
there.
Boeing is also instituting a higher increase across all levels, pausing pay increases for
executives and managers, as well as taking executive pay down and instituting furloughs for
employees. Jon Ostrower reporting it sounds like it's going to be three weeks on, one week off
for most employees, halting non-critical travel and eliminating first and business class travel,
including for top executives, but no word on what they do with the Boeing BBJs that they have
on hand.
Canceling off-site meetings, reducing company participation in air shows, trade shows, and
special events, suspending non-essential capital expenditures and facilities expenditures, and
pausing spending on advertising marketing charitable contributions and employee recognitions.
That all comes from Brian West, who's the CFO of Boeing in a memo that he sent out earlier in
the week.
[0:13:49] JR: Man, things have changed dramatically since we recorded last week, which if you
remember, Boeing was basically saying in internal memos, “This is the best deal you're going to
get. It ain't going to get better than this.” And the union was saying, “Hey, we've tentatively
agreed to this big deal.” And then, the day after we recorded, the contract was turned down by a
vote of 94.6% against with a strike approval of 96% in favor. That's pretty wild that the union
would tentatively agree to this and the workers would be so overwhelmingly against this and in
favor of a strike.
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Good on them. They have a lot to claw back from what was taken away from them in 2008, but
it is a real, real quick test for the new CEO of Boeing here to try to get this resolved as fast as
possible. But the gulf between what Boeing was presenting and what they were saying was their
best offer and what the union members are saying, “This is a crap deal,” is pretty wide right now.
I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like this is going to go on for quite a while.
[0:15:02] IP: It could, but it also might not, because Boeing needs to get back to work. This is
coming to us from FlightGlobal, quoting a JP Morgan analyst estimate that a strike could cost
Boeing $1.5 billion per month and Boeing only has $10.9 billion in cash on hand, which, and I'm
quoting here, “Analyst generally view as about the minimum it needs to operate.”
So, with no money coming in because Boeing gets paid when the planes get delivered and less
money going out, but still not zero, that might be incentive enough for a deal to be struck
quickly. Let's hope it doesn't drag on because the longer it goes, the uglier things get all around.
But it'll be interesting to see how quickly the two sides can come to an agreement and hopefully
quite quick.
[0:15:55] JR: Yes. Speaking of Boeing coming to an agreement and money going out faster
than it's coming in, Boeing apparently now owes Embraer $150 million for the deal it canceled
with Embraer way back in the extreme early days of COVID where Boeing was to absorb
Embraer commercial jet program, but that all went sideways in the very early days of COVID,
apparently.
[0:16:24] IP: Well, the deal was announced pre-COVID. It was the excitement. And then as
COVID hit, they were like, “Oh, wait.”
[0:16:31] JR: Boeing's got a big cash crunch, and no one knew what the future held for the
industry, so Boeing unilaterally canceled the contract. Apparently, and we know Embraer, I
believe, took the court over this and they settled. I think it was an arbitration for $150 million for
a breakup fee. That's not great timing for Boeing right now. They could probably use that $150
million for other things, not including executive business or first-class travel because that's not
allowed right now.
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[0:17:02] IP: There you go. Let's head a bit north of the border, Jason, and talk about Air
Canada, which averted, at least for the moment, a pilot strike. Last week, we discussed that Air
Canada pilots were up for an agreement, and if one wasn't reached by the 15th of September,
then pilots could strike as early as today, the 18th of September.
Good news is, the Pilots Union and Air Canada have reached a tentative agreement. It still
needs to be voted on by the rank and file, which is where we get to all of the emails that we've
gotten this week, comparing the situation roughly to the Boeing situation, where it sounds like
those who are going to have to make the final vote on the contract are very, very displeased
with the contract. So, it is still entirely possible that we find ourselves discussing an Air Canada
pilot strike in the near future. But for the moment, things seem to be in a holding pattern.
[0:18:09] JR: Yes. They got about as close to actually going on strike as you really can get. All
the travel waivers by itself and partner airlines were published. There were even signs ready to
go in airports talking about what to do if your flight was impacted by the strike, by the Union
strike, but thankfully that was averted at least for now. We'll see.
[0:18:32] IP: We will see. Last week, an Alaska Airlines 737 and a Southwest Airlines 737 came
a bit closer than they're supposed to in Nashville. The Southwest 737 was crossing the active
runway after Alaska Airlines had been cleared for takeoff. That Alaska flight rejected its takeoff
at over 100 knots, and the brakes warmed significantly, shall we say, and the tires deflated. A lot
was made about this, and I thought we would talk about it, not because anything actually
happened, thankfully, but because of what did happen and the response here.
First, the aircraft were thankfully not very close. I think the closest they came to each other was
about four-tenths of a mile, which is close, but safety was maintained. But then much was made
about the “blowing of the tires,” which is not what happened. The tires deflated because that's
what they're designed to do. I think we've talked about this before in the podcast, and if we
haven't, or if we have, it's a good refresher, and if we haven't, then we get to talk about
something that's interesting.
Aircraft tires have plugs in them called fuse plugs that, after the tires reach a certain
temperature, the plugs are designed to disintegrate, basically, and the tires deflate. Because if
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that didn't happen, the tires would explode. Tires still explode sometimes for all sorts of reasons.
But the fuse plugs are designed to make the deflation of the tire as uneventful as possible. In
the case, it appears that that is exactly what happened. So, thankfully, all's well that ends well.
Alaska immediately emailed their customers to apologize, not on Southwest's behalf, though
Southwest could have sent an email to the Alaska customers. Why not? But Alaska sent an
email to its customers apologizing and offering them, I believe, it was $1,000 a piece just for
their troubles. In addition to refunding the cost of their ticket.
[0:20:40] JR: Yes. Sorry, everything worked as it should and that the tires were really safe and
did what they were supposed to. “Here's $1,000.” That's a good deal.
[0:20:48] IP: Yes. I mean, obviously, at the time, that's not how you're considering it, but I'm
glad it all worked out.
Jason, you didn't come this weekend because you were looking at trains.
[0:20:59] JR: That’s true.
[0:20:59] IP: But Dorkfest was a fantastic experience. The SpotLAX events on the rooftop of the
H Hotel and at the Proud Bird were all wonderful. The best part about going to Dorkfest and
SpotLAX is seeing old friends and making new ones who love aviation. I was really fortunate to
chat on the sidelines with Kevin and Rudy, who are just – the setup they have is incredible. And
there's a link in the show notes to kind of a behind the scenes of them doing the live stream.
I've seen TV stations with less setup than these guys are running. To be fair, Kevin's
background is television production. So, he kind of knew what he was doing when he was
getting into this, but it's just absolutely impressive. I was fortunate enough to talk with them
about kind of where they've come from and where they're taking the channel and learn a little bit
more about their story. So, we'll be right back with my conversation with Kevin and Rudy and be
prepared for airplane interruptions. We'll be right back.
[DORKFEST CLIP]
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[0:22:14] IP: We're here at Dorkfest. We've done the giant raffle. We've done the looking at
airplanes. We're doing the waiting for airplanes.
[0:22:23] K: Yes, always.
[0:22:27] IP: I'm joined by Kevin and Rudy from Airline Videos Live. You guys are the
preeminent Los Angeles streamers coming from rooftops, parking lots, parks, who knows where
else bringing live coverage to everything happening at LAX. Thanks so much for joining.
[0:22:46] K: Oh, thanks for having us.
[0:22:47] IP: It's always great to see you guys. We're on the H hotel last night on the roof up
there looking down and now we're at the park across from the In-N-Out and just a fantastic day.
Tell me about the history of your channel because you guys have skyrocketed in notoriety and
viewership and the amount of work that you've put in is just incredible.
[0:23:09] K: Well, thank you. Yes, I mean the history is basically I was a TV news photographer
and I'll be honest with you, hated my job, and I was looking for a way to move on to do
something a little more creative and my love for aviation was always there. So, I would spend
any of my days off from working in TV news, I'd come out to LAX and just shoot 4K videos. I
was out here 12 hours a day, grabbing as much video as I could, grabbing everything, thinking I
was going to make a successful YouTube channel just by putting those videos on. It was a
struggle.
I mean, every day I'd post every single day and it got a little traction. Then one day, I kind of
tried the whole live stream thing. When I first did it, it's not what it is now. It was basically like a
live camera. I barely went on. You couldn't hear me even when I was on. There was like a little
chat window off to the right side. The problem was that the Internet around here was so horrible
you lose your Internet after 10 minutes of going live. I said, “Forget this. This isn't for me.
I'm moving on.”
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So, I left that for a good six, eight months. Then, all of a sudden I got this email from some
company called StreamYards or whatever it was and they said, “We have this new software that
makes it look like you're a TV news station.” I said, “Well, I've got that experience.” So, I started
kind of diving into that and I came out to this spot where we are outside the In-N-Out Burger,
started doing live streams again with this new software and this is during just coming out of the
pandemic. So, in terms of traffic here at LAX, it was still very slow. I'll be honest with you, you go
back and watch those streams. They're a mess. They're a mess. You still can't hear me very
well.
[0:24:39] IP: Early days.
[0:24:41] K: Yes. Early days. But people were tuning in and liking it and then they'd be very
upset on the days where I'd come out here and have to go to work later in the afternoon.
[0:24:51] IP: They're like, “How dare you not get the people what you want.”
[0:24:53] K: Exactly. So, we always had our weekend shows, but the weekday shows always I
had to go to work at some point So people were really upset by that and of course there was a
lot of people supporting the channel by that point and they're like, “Well, what if we continue to
support you in a way that you can leave your job and it just so happened within, gosh, less than
a year.” I got to the point where I felt comfortable enough to say, “See you TV news. I'm doing
this full-time.” I'll be honest with you, I never looked back after that. Of course, during that time
Rudy came on as a second camera. He was actually based here outside the In-N-Out Burger.
So yes, those are the early days. What's become of this –
[0:25:35] IP: That’s a Qatar A350. How rude, landing in an airport.
[0:25:38] K: What's become of this channel now, we come out here sometimes. We used to.
We have a podcast. We haven't done in forever. We used to come out here and record so we
could hear the planes flying directly over our head. It creates like a good sound.
[0:25:49] IP: It's a good ambiance.
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[0:25:50] K: Yes, exactly. So, that's basically it and you know what's progressed out of these
last three and a half years is just it's always changing, it's always exciting, something I never
would have ever expected.
[0:26:04] IP: What's next? Or is this just kind of what happens, happens?
[0:26:07] K: Well, if you've been watching the news, I've kind of hurt my shoulder which has
kind of held me back a little bit and so things are going to push back a little bit. I had plans to
travel a little bit more this fall into winter and that's obviously not going to happen. But we're still
going to try to do the push the shows at LAX. But I'll be good to go by like spring. By that point,
Rudy is a school teacher. So, he's basically full-time right now anyway, and Rudy's kind of like
my travel buddy right now. By the time I get completely healed, he'll come back for the summer
break and we'll venture and travel again.
What's new with the channel? We're based here at LAX and the great thing about LAX is you
never know what you're going to see in any given day. It could be a C17 team pops in, Air Force
One, Air Force Two. You never know what you're going to see and that's the great thing about
LAX.
[0:26:55] IP: Yes. Being based in Chicago, I don't have that.
[0:26:57] K: Really?
[0:26:57] IP: No.
[0:26:58] K: I love Chicago.
[0:26:59] IP: We're the largest regional airport in the world.
[0:27:00] K: Well, that's true.
[0:27:01] IP: CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ – there's a 747 every once in a while.
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[0:27:05] K: Yes. Well, actually, you guys get a lot of Queens.
[0:27:08] IP: That's true.
[0:27:09] K: Yes. So, it's not too bad. I mean, there's nothing like LAX. The thing is, we did a lot
of traveling this past summer. We went to Honolulu, we went to St. Martin. Everyone's always
like, “When are you going to go to Sint Maarten?” We did the Sint Maarten thing. Oh, we got
blasted by, I think it was a JetBlue A320 on the beach, in Maho Beach. You did that once.
I don't know if I'd ever do it again.
[0:27:29] IP: I think once is enough to have experience.
[0:27:30] JR: Once is enough. You’ve experienced it. Actually, that was what the second day we
were there. But the third day we were like, “Okay, we're just going to step off to the side and not
even do it.” But I mean Rudy can talk more. I mean that was someplace that Rudy really wanted
to go to and how was that experience Rudy?
[0:27:45] R: Amazing. I do have to say when I first started off with airline videos, I never would
have imagined that this is where it would have taken me. To be able to go to Sint Maarten, to
travel the country, to different airports, Chicago, Boston, Alaska even. I never pictured that that
would have been part of the gig. So, it's been pretty awesome to be able to tag along and be a
part of the channel.
[0:28:06] IP: Has the level of interest and enthusiasm surprised you?
[0:28:10] R: Oh, absolutely, and I'm sure Kevin could speak more on that.
[0:28:13] K: Yes, I mean. I don't know how many – we have these trading cards, because
trading cards are the big thing in aviation.
[0:28:17] IP: I got some yesterday.
[0:28:18] K: You got some. I think we, the correct term sold out. I mean, we ran out.
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[0:28:22] IP: Gave them all away.
[0:28:22] K: We ran out. So yes, the man for anything that is related to AVL, the merch, look at
how many people are wearing the merch.
[0:28:33] IP: Yes, I think it's fast. Maybe 30% of people here are wearing your logo, which
makes me a little jealous. But I’ll be okay.
[0:28:37] K: To me, when I see that, it blows my mind, I'll be honest with you, to see that. What
I've ever thought about that three and a half years ago. No way. No way. I was just looking for a
way to escape TV news. That's really all I was doing. I never once thought that it would create
the community that it has created.
[0:28:55] IP: Before I let you go, what's the best thing you've caught? Or your favorite thing you
caught on camera?
[0:29:00] K: Well, I'm sure you heard about it. The holy moly veal of tons of Queen. It was a
random Tuesday. It was the day of my birthday, April 23rd of 2024. I was hanging out, which is
along Lincoln Boulevard, which I called Plains Butter Paradise, not too far from where we are.
Actually, that day, I was going to call in sick. I wasn't feeling that great. I went out there within
the first hour. Tons of Queen comes in from Frankfurt, the 747-8. Comes in, everything's perfect,
the weather was perfect, comes in and just hits the ground hard, hard.
That's one thing. It was like, the natural reaction to me was like, “Ooh, ah, yes.” But then it
started bouncing and almost the landing back on the front landing gear. We all know that's not a
good thing.
[0:29:43] IP: Not good.
[0:29:43] K: Then, all of a sudden you start hearing me say, “Holy moly. Holy moly.” It was
amazing.
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[0:29:49] IP: It’s a family-friendly.
[0:29:49] K: Yes. Exactly. So, they did a go-around, successful landing, was okay. It looked like
they almost did it again, but apparently that was a training flight. A training flight. Delta 767.
[0:30:04] IP: Delta 767.
[0:30:07] K: That was a training flight, and from what I hear possibly the first landing for that co-
pilot. Just so happened to be on the day that I was broadcasting for that location.
[0:30:15] IP: Always good to have a – to look back at the video and critique your own landing.
[0:30:19] K: Oh, 3.4 million views on YouTube alone. There was main national news
everywhere. It was amazing. That was just a normal day. Not bad weather day. Just a normal
day here at LAX. Again –
[0:30:31] IP: You never know what you're going to get. Exactly. Kevin  and Rudy with Airline
Videos Live. Thank you guys so much.
[0:30:36] K: Thank you.
[0:30:37] IP: We'll toss a link to your channel in the show notes for sure, and we’ll hopefully
send some people your way. Thanks guys.
[0:30:42] K: Thank you.
[0:30:42] R: Thank you.
[BACK TO AVT]
[0:30:49] IP: Welcome back. Jason, you and I were talking about the holy moly moment
separately the other day and I had to laugh when Kevin brought up that that was kind of the big
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moment for the channel. I actually have a sticker from him now that has the Lufthansa 747 with
the holy moly icon on it. So, I got a good chuckle out of that from them.
[0:31:10] JR: We're definitely going to have to link to that particular video.
[0:31:14] IP: Oh, Absolutely.
[0:31:17] JR: Wow. If that actually was a training flight, you're going to need another training
flight because that one did not go well.
[0:31:24] IP: No. It did end well. The flight did.
[0:31:26] JR: Yes, eventually.
[0:31:28] IP: Eventually. But they went around. That was the right call. Let's see. Where are we
going now? We're going to Scandinavia.
[0:31:34] JR: You love going to Scandinavia.
[0:31:36] IP: I really do. Next year maybe sometime, If I'm flying intra Scandinavia, which I am
now because they no longer have a non-stop Chicago Stockholm flight, they're bringing back
the Eurobiz.
[0:31:51] JR: Yes. Again, everything that's old with SAS is new again.
[0:31:53] IP: Is new again.
[0:31:54] JR: They're flying the JFK again. They're bringing back intra-European business
class. They're going back to Seattle. Everything that they used to do is now new again.
[0:32:03] IP: Everything's coming back, yes. But it's coming back as part of SkyTeam. So, as
part of its integration into SkyTeam, and I believe the phrase that SAS CEO, van der Werff used
was becoming more like our friends, or something along those lines. Basically, whatever Air
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France and KLM do, SAS is going to emulate at this point. So, they're bringing back Eurobiz.
They're going to rename the cabins.
So, right now, SAS has business, plus, and then just regular, and now they'll have business.
[0:32:38] JR: Regular? Is that what they call it? SAS regular?
[0:32:39] IP: No. I think it's just economy. But they'll have now business, premium economy,
and economy. So, I guess Plus is going away, but we'll always have the memories. This is
another step in the integration.
[0:32:53] JR: Yes. Sure. Europe is back at SAS. Okay. That's nice. We haven't actually said
what Eurobiz is, but that's the terminology for blocking the middle seat in business class,
because European airlines don't actually have business class. They just have economy where
they block the middle seat and you get perks like maybe a meal and lounge access typically,
and you're very different than business class or first class here in the US or even in Asia.
Hey, SkyTeam has standards, and SAS must adhere to those standards. This is SkyTeam, we
have standards.
[0:33:31] IP: - Let's go to India, where Air India will begin its long-haul cabin refit next year. This
is across its 777 and 787 fleet, kind of bringing that fleet up to standards of the new A350
deliveries, as it continues apace with its narrow body cabin refits which look quite nice, I must
say, and the new A350 cabin looks very nice as well, so it'll be nice to see those kind of start
rolling out across the fleet instead of just on a few select aircraft. That'll be good to see.
Their operations with Vistara become one in November of this year, so that's been confirmed
that they'll be keeping those around in the same configuration, at least for a while. But the area
in the proper aircraft now will be getting that refit at first, I believe.
China's Development Bank leasing arm is going to acquire 80 A320neos for delivery later in the
decade. So, the C919 is not taking over just quite yet to Jason.
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[0:34:40] JR: Well, I don't think that even be possible. They're not cranking out nearly enough
C919s to supplant the A320 or 737. Maybe 20 years from now, that'll be possible, where they
won't have to think about Airbus or Boeing, but that's definitely not going to be a thing near term.
But 80 320neos, that's a hefty order.
[0:35:01] IP: That's a healthy off-season order.
[0:35:03] JR: Good for them.
[0:35:05] IP: Yes. Well, there was a big tease late last week, and they did a whole mission
control video thing, and we all kind of assumed that this is what it was, and United has in fact
confirmed. They are going to start equipping the entire fleet in 2025. They have not said when it
will be done.
[0:35:25] JR: It will take years to be installed on the entire fleet, but this is by far, and this is not
a topic we typically talk about. But this is by far the largest airline in the world to defect from its
Hodgepodge assortment of Wi-Fi providers to unify across the board to anything like this. In this
case, it would be Starlink, which is only on a couple of airlines right now. So, JetSuiteX in the
US, Hawaiian Airlines, it will be coming to airBaltic in the coming months, I think, but United
brings hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of about thousand plus aircraft.
[0:36:05] IP: A thousand plus aircraft, yes.
[0:36:07] JR: All of its non-retiring mainline fleet and regionals, which is a lot of airplanes, could
take a long time. But the regional jets will probably take priority here because they've got the
weakest, oldest junkiest crap on board, which turns into a pumpkin at the end of 2025. So, they
don't have a choice. That equipment has to be replaced by the end of next year. It's really
interesting, but best of all, it's going to be free. No strings attached, which is still quite the rarity
in the industry.
[0:36:38] IP: Yes. Free, and I mean basically like if you have good home Wi-Fi like that.
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[0:36:45] JR: Yes. That's the plan at least. So, it's really going to set up a situation of have the
airlines that have it and the airlines that have not. Delta's offering at least here in the US, Delta's
offering free Wi-Fi eventually across this entire fleet. United is now going to be offering free Wi-
Fi across the entire fleet. JetBlue has been doing it for like a decade. Then there's American.
Nobody really knows what American is doing because it's still charging like 35 bucks for Wi-Fi
on it's, many of its wide-body aircraft. So, maybe they're next but this is quite the shake-up and
the rumors are that Air France could be coming next.
[0:37:20] IP: Yes. We shall see. This is a rumor that has been put to bed. Starlux announced
this week that it will join Oneworld by the end of 2025, or it will apply to join one by the end of
2025. The relatively new carrier based in Taiwan with its long-haul fleet of A350s, which our
good friend of the show, Jeremy Dwyer-Lindgren, has recently flown and told me it was one of
the best flights he's ever taken. So, now I want to fly them.
[0:37:49] JR: I mean, I've also flown them, but unfortunately, only in the A330neo, had to scrape
by on that. I would agree with Jeremy. It was one of, again, in business class, got a really
screaming deal through Alaska, through mileage plan. But again, one of the best business class
experiences I've ever had, but they're kind of aided by being a brand-new airline with brand-new
airplanes. So, kind of like a cheat code to be the best out there. But joining Oneworld, that
would be fantastic. Although, I'm definitely enjoying their partnership with Alaska Airlines right
now which launched just about a year ago, but really interesting to have a little country like
Taiwan with three airlines representing one of each one of the three major alliances.
So, you'd have China Airlines and Sky Team, EVA and Star Alliance, and now Starlux in
Oneworld. That is a lot of alliance representation for what is essentially one airport.
[0:38:48] IP: So, it's going to be the densest alliance representation per capita, anywhere.
[0:38:54] JR: We'll have to get –
[0:38:56] IP: Someone run the stats on it. But speaking of new airplanes, I think for me, the
more interesting news is that the A350 freighters that they have on order will begin delivery in
2027.
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[0:39:08] JR: That will be here before you know it.
[0:39:09] IP: I know. It feels like we're almost already there. But we've got between 2027 and
2029, they will take delivery of those five aircraft. It's like a week of press conferences and
announcements, I guess. But IndiGo CEO Pieter Elbers said that the airline wants to have 40
international destinations by spring of 2025. So, they need to add 11 within the next six or so
months, because they currently have 29 international destinations. They've also talked about
where their widebody fleet might go in the upcoming deliveries of those aircraft that they have
on order, looking at places near before far, as far as the widebody deliveries go. But the
interesting conversation happens with what happens when they take delivery of the A321XLR
and he says that puts destinations, including North America within reach, which I thought was
rather interesting. Seems like marketing bluster at the moment, but you never know.
[0:40:11] JR: India to North America, non-stop on the narrow body. No thanks. I can't see that
possibly working out for anyone involved.
[0:40:21] IP: What's the outer limit, Jason? What's the outer limit? This one is interesting. It's
not new by any stretch of the imagination. It's just expanded. airBaltic confirmed that Lufthansa
Group is going to take up to 21 airBaltic A220s on wet lease for the summer 2025 season.
[0:40:42] JR: That's a drippy wet lease. You said, it's nothing new. Lufthansa and all manner of
European Airlines have been wet-leasing airBaltic's A220s to aid in their summer needs for
years now. But 21 is about a third of airBaltic's functional A220 fleet right now since they have
more than that.
[0:41:06] IP: Notice that Jason didn't say fleet. He said functional fleet.
[0:41:11] JR: The fleet that they have operating in the air, this is about a third of it. That's a lot.
It's not all going to Lufthansa proper. Some of them, I think three are going to Austria and the
rest are going to be split up amongst the Lufthansa group as a whole.
[0:41:25] IP: Four will go to Brussels.
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[0:41:25] JR: Yes. They're going to be all over, but I guess airBaltic's loss and not being able to
operate as widely as it wanted to is turning into a gain. It's guaranteed revenue for the airline. It
doesn't have to bother selling any seats on these airplanes because that becomes the
Lufthansa Group's problem now. I'd imagine that the economics here are working out quite well
for them, but that's a large chunk of their operational fleet. Twenty-one. That’s 21 aircraft being
wet lease is larger than a lot of airlines' entire fleet outright.
[0:42:00] IP: Indeed, it is.
[0:42:01] JR: But it's an interesting twist for a little airline like airBaltic. It's an interesting
development for them and not ideal circumstances, but they made the best of it.
[0:42:11] IP: Now, let's go to Australia. Let's go to court in Australia, where this is a very
interesting lawsuit that's been filed. Jason, tell us what's going on.
[0:42:23] JR: Well, the headline here from Australian Aviation reads, “Rex accused of stealing
planes from aircraft Boneyard.” That's a hell of a claim, but it's a little more nuanced than that.
So, back in 2020, apparently, there were some dealings going on before Rex started up being a
737 operator and then also before it no longer being a 737 operator, Rex said put down a
$200,000 US that for a few sob 340Bs. But then COVID happened and they didn't actually make
the full payment by June 2020 as they were supposed to and that voided the contract.
But apparently the claim that is now the matter of lawsuit says that Rex just went to the
boneyard and started picking pieces off the airplanes like they belong to them and they didn't.
So, now Jet Midwest is suing Rex for $7.2 million US, which is about $10.8 million Australian,
plus legal costs in a case to be heard before the Supreme Court in Australia on Friday morning,
which is coming up, I guess, tomorrow in, or would have already happened by the time this
podcast comes out.
[0:43:43] IP: Yes.
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[0:43:43] JR: That is a really interesting case where you have an operational airline being
accused of stealing parts from four airplanes in a bone yard in the extreme early days of COVID
to keep its aircraft functional. We're going to be watching this one real close because I'm going
to get the popcorn ready when I read this decision or the arguments or whatever, because I've
never heard of such a case like this before.
[0:44:07] IP: It's a bizarre one that we'll definitely come back to when there's been a decision.
We'll stay in the neighborhood and hover over to New Zealand to close out the show, because I
thought this was really interesting this morning, or yesterday morning, and it's kind of continued
as the weather has stayed cold. In episode 62, I believe, we talked with Maria Langer, who is a
helicopter pilot, who uses her helicopter, or use, I believe she's retired since, to dry cherry
orchards after heavy rains. Because if the cherries get too wet, they get too heavy and they
burst.
Well, similar situation, but slightly different in New Zealand this week as a cold snap has
threatened the grape crop near Blenheim, and so you have dozens of helicopters out not trying
to dry the grapes, but keep them warm. The helicopter rotor is used to push warm air down from
an inversion layer to keep the plants above freezing so they don't frost and aren't lost, which I
thought was just fascinating.
[0:45:19] JR: What a time to be alive.
[0:45:20] IP: It's nothing new. They've been doing it for years and years. There are all sorts of
frost fans and you can light giant diesel-fueled candles to heat the air and all sorts of things, but
it's just interesting to see another use for a helicopter in keeping your sauvignon blanc available
and on the store shelves. So, there you go.
This has been Episode 286 of AvTalk. I'm Ian Petchenik here, as always with –
[0:45:53] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening.
[END]
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