Episode 33 - The Gods of Chaos, who they are and where they came from

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Forty K. Lorcas with me, John Barsati and Brad Chester.
[SPEAKER_01]: On today's episode, we're going to dive into the chaos gods of Forty K. Also as the ruinous powers, how they came to be, what drives them and kind of set us up for our deeper dives into some of the gods that we're going on the following episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to argue so much today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've got some strong opinion section.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's not even just a fat fact is a lot of what we're going to talk about today is all of the stuff that they've never canon or clarified.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a ton of conjecture online for the past thirty years about intentionally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I'm saying we're going to we're going to try to concise that up to one podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I got a microphone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell the world my opinion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a talent pinions work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I look, I got the pinion and publishing and everything software.
[SPEAKER_02]: And before you go to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to preface this with I've been wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be wrong again.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to me today because I'm going to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I think at a lot of people are going to go, Brad, you are so wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, you know what I do on everybody to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think this one's going to be one of the ones that we're going to have wildly differing opinions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to have some discord feedback on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, please.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't be afraid to throw it down and go, here's my ten point essay of why you're wrong about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we will, I, I've, I've told, I've said this cast numerous times.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I please like and subscribe to the cast, obviously, but if you don't like something or think we got something wrong, come to the discord and let me know.
[SPEAKER_01]: People, you can, you can just look, there's thoughts of ways to let us know, but if you do it on the discord, I can actually respond to you and apologize if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can then make changes to later cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll come in and actually call.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to apologize.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just accept the fact that I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll write it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I just want to thank a bunch of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I am where the Xbox listeners are from.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have, have left me notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to know this though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, they, they play it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They list our podcast for the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people were like, yeah, let's, I pop on that box.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're both way too old to be asking questions about technology.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you could also add the Google results for how to open a PDF, for Brad and I would be very helpful for both of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to do some other cast in the future on the other gods, like the Elder Gods, what the Imperium calls a living saint?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a demon.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hundred percent a demon.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a living saint bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Emperor is being powered by the Warp right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Continue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have given it that.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, that cast is going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the Black Ships cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start at the beginning of what is the warp?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're going to start on a country notion on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's just go in the beginning though.
[SPEAKER_02]: The warp when the old ones were using the warp and this is, this may not even be the first people to use the warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just the first people we know about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The warp was a never ending serene lake of power, but it's the inverse, it's the flip, it's the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's the upside.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the inverse of the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where the galaxy is material beings doing material things, the warp is emotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's thought, it's feelings.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's thought become manifest because when you think, when you think, it's not even just think, when you feel something, it
[SPEAKER_02]: comes reality in the warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the old ones were able to Zen Mojo it to use the power of the warp to make the smallest splash possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: They would have been great Olympic divers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, just the
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they used it for what millions of years with albums.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really doing anything to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't until well, I mean, I would ruin everything, cough, cough, sorry, but humans did a little bit of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to gd out your humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: Humans did a lot of business makes no sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one question is about the warp is kind of a tricky from a gameplay standpoint is warhammer forty-cade exists entirely within the Milky Way galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the warp, the material, I would assume would have to extend beyond.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the problem is, is that I think that the warp, they can't write it because it becomes a challenge.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that the warp is localized also.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we can make this up as we go along.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's my belief though, because I think that the warp has a landscape like space as landscape.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: It has even it's the I always have to think of it as the upside down because it's the flip of the galaxy or sorry of the universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the Milky Way
[SPEAKER_02]: only has there's a warp for everywhere, but I think that the Milky Way has its warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alpha Centaurias is warp because it's just far because there's distance and all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess that yeah, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: It becomes, it's the question as to the warps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying they all have their own individual warps that are overlapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Nurgle doesn't exist in Alpha Centauri.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or they have their own Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have their own Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they don't exist there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it was a question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know how to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It goes back into, is there distance in the warp?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and sort of we'll get to that only cover the chaos gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the because they do have them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have my topography.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a map.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's some sand.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a map.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't find yourself using that map.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the warp is effectively infinite.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have said that multiple times that the warp is like the universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an infinite.
[SPEAKER_01]: Expans.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So from there, we kind of go into the origin of the gods in the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is what the bread was talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: The time of the war in the heaven.
[SPEAKER_01]: The warp was just, it was a tranquil sea of power.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was this flat, just endless amounts of energy you could reach into.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I really think that the old ones, in my mind, the old ones are, I mean, they're basically slang, but whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they have that monk on the mountain, the ability to be
[SPEAKER_02]: super disciplined because I actually think that the old ones could just throw down dragon king like powers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm full D&D old, so we can get on this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they could just, they could have hurled, for instance, in the war and I haven't, I really think that they could have just went, I don't think that I want Necrontia to be here, but they would have corrupted the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not what they do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, basically they had to fight the Necrontia in a, in a, in a material fashion because if they use the immatarium, then they would have
[SPEAKER_02]: They would have used a motion because they could have drawn on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't use the fire magic in the Witcher.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they would have wrecked to the warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they have to put constraints on it because they know that we will ruin this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it, and again, in winning this battle, we will lose the war of forever, basically, because what happened, and it's partially their fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost exclusively, exclusively their fault is they went, hey, we're losing this war.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's make the race of poets that we made.
[SPEAKER_02]: into a race, into a race of OCD psycho warriors, because this was the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we talk about the warp, when we discuss the war in heaven, one thing we kind of didn't say is that before the Necrontier came back at the old ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Necrontier, the old ones fight, the old ones pushing Necrontier back, the Necrontier became the Necrons and then re-emerge.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that period of time,
[SPEAKER_01]: is when, is approximately when the old ones were uplifting the elder and the elder were being uplifted to be poets.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were being shown how to use the warp to like make a building to craft music.
[SPEAKER_01]: The warp was being used.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was being used.
[SPEAKER_01]: The warp at this stage was primarily a source of good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was being, they were actually they were cheering disease with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were doing all of these things with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the Necron show up with C-Tans, and it's like, hey guys, I used to drop the clarinet.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, if you could use the work to turn that clarinet into a bright lance, that would be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is why it's such a big deal and why I think that they didn't do.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do and do it just as because we're going to get into how GW has said humanity created most of the strife in the air.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't believe that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, because the old ones made elder to be
[SPEAKER_02]: their lives to be intricately connected to the warmth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they legitimately started making thoughts reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: They made, they legitimately saying, like, what else did if you go to Alicia himself?
[SPEAKER_02]: They sang their buildings into existence with all that thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all war.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they took that and went, hey guys, that are intimately connected to the war.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to give you any more training on how to be disciplined about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we need you to fight right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, is there any way you guys could throw some lightning bolts out of your eyeballs so you could kill these people?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, I play the flute and this guy bakes.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, stop doing all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those bakers became warp spiders.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the guys playing the flute were dire Avengers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was that was how how fast it went.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like basically the marching band that was that the Eldar and broken up by instrument and just gave them each a different gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: They went, hey, I'm I think this is going to have some serious long lasting consequences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it'll probably work itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was the whole thing is I think that the old ones did this real quick and we're like, hey, guys, come here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to teach you how to fight using the warp because they assume, well, once we win, we'll just fix it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll fix it later.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the enslave or plague comes into play and the old ones all like, hey, we got to go now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bob, Bob.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your spoke, Bob.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when ends of happening is that the elder are left just
[SPEAKER_01]: going well, I can make anything I want with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll just go ahead and this isn't a straight elder cast, but I do have to sidetrack it on why I think that the elder are terrible for them for the war, because elder and this has been multiple times they've talked about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eldar feel everything, a hundred, slash a thousand times more than humans do.
[SPEAKER_02]: All emotions wise, not like pain, but like any feeling the Eldar process this so much stronger, which is crazy, by the way, for a super long living race.
[SPEAKER_01]: They care more than any other race.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, about everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: any tragedy is is horrific for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every victory is amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every tragedy is the worst ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this takes a toll on the warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it takes a little bit more toll when they become psychophysics and bug hole guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they get a little bit loopy with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what ends up happening with that is, as we've discussed, the old ones disappear.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Necrons disappear, the C-Tanner dead, and the Eldar are looking around at the Cork and the Jokero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, we're going to cover the Jokero.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really wish the GW would do more with them anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Cork are pretty expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Cork just kind of, at fall for their part of the Galaxy and it has some fun wars, but the Eldar then spends sixty million years.
[SPEAKER_01]: messing with the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a dream when you read Eldar lore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of this conflict of they seem to know that they shouldn't be messing with the warp as much, but then seem to have that kind of natural urge of like, yeah, but everything's easier if we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's a civilization that is I think about something and it materializes in that was their technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was materializes in the real world.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the sears were pointing out that, hey, this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one cares.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, John.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you the fact that when you think something into being is bad, you're like, who?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep my hand as a pain in the air.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm probably just going to go ahead and keep magic things in the being.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can go to hell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we could all get together and magic into being an entire city in about two and a half hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or we could spend a century life time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go ahead and keep doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go with option A option.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep doing the bad magic guys and whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's someone else's problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it didn't come back to harm them for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead and kick that can.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason this matters is that the warp itself feels these emotions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when as a happening with a piece that the L. R. I didn't understand didn't care whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were actually creating an infinity circuit for themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were pulling energy out of the work to do things, but as they did those things, those things created emotions, which then fed the warps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were actually taking the energy and feeding it back in, which indicates it's like cold fusion is a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, someone just finished fallout.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the case of this is a bad thing because the warp doesn't just take the energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's do this because we want to go, I'm going to steal your thunder hardcore and go into the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, but I have to do cannon versus arc cannon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because and we're skipping around just a little bit because GW cannon is when humanity came into play, which doesn't happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: for sixty millionaires.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is when the gods became up because of all the emotions of humans.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'll that broke the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you know, let's let's shit on them hard here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So according to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can always count on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So according to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Before you should.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to talk about what I'm doing right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm basically an old lady that's always cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even though we're on a cast, we're no one can see me.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just recorded the first.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second one I said, I can't have a blanket on me that restricts my arms.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm trying to figure out how to cover myself while still flailing my arms around like a wild bird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brad is wearing a blanket over his chest.
[SPEAKER_01]: They keep pulling it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a woman who's ashamed of changing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I keep looking across and like picking it up and picking up the blanket over top of his chest like that sort of modesty.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's wearing a shirt, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just letting it happen because we have wine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, the issue I have with this is, according to GW, all of the chaos gods are really born primarily out of humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just humanity, out of the dark ages.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just for comparison,
[SPEAKER_01]: at the era of the dark ages.
[SPEAKER_01]: So pre black plague, global population was around a three hundred and fifty million.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's six people compared to three hundred of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Eldar were in over a million galaxies at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're planets.
[SPEAKER_01]: No stars system star system star system this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they are also at the height of the storm.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were also, they were also full on, roaring for shits and giggles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And two thirds of their civilization was part of a pleasure cult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was later.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, that was, but I'm saying that, that, that's still before humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, sir.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were doing that for a while, as they ended up with some millions of years.
[SPEAKER_01]: The L-dars, so if I'm doing them in math correctly, they're basically saying the L-dars were averaging less than three hundred and fifty people per star system because humanity really had a big impact on the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's poor writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I'm going to, I'm going with.
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever, so according to GW's, the viewpoint on this,
[SPEAKER_01]: The warp was mildly affected by the Eldar's existence for sixty million years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And using it every single day to do all sorts of different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bad things to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the wars in Europe were enough to really move the needle on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that is the canon.
[SPEAKER_02]: My canon is that the gods were already there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do my GW shield at the same point in time as I do my, what I actually think.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I think is that L.D.R.
[SPEAKER_02]: gave the psychic energy for the gods to exist humanity is so hardcore, so short lived and so motioned up that we brought them into sentience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just honestly just going to take what GW wrote and go ahead and do it and just do it and do it with what I would to me makes more cognitive sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I but what I believe happened was that over time the effects of not just because not just the elder you also got you you've got numerous what was what was the alien species of dark angels were fighting
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gather the rag.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got ragdand.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got vote and ragdand.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're super psychically powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I only wore like race.
[SPEAKER_01]: But more like race.
[SPEAKER_01]: The entire the orcs, the entire galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though you may not have, the older had their section, but the entire galaxy is behaving in these ways that feed chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Corn is being fed by battle, slouches everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeanche is being fed by a desire to expand, grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Necrons actually would have loved the Necrons.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing is, and I'm going to steal John's thunder on this, but this is a big, this is, this is the Barzati theory, which is that while the Necrons were a non-war sensing entity race, the Necron tier, they
[SPEAKER_02]: Still would have an effect on the warp by the fact that they were holy shit vile.
[SPEAKER_02]: The negrant here, by the way, makes humanity look like a bunch of like the negrant to your heroes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Three of the original chaos gods dead on.
[SPEAKER_01]: They hit corn by being incredibly worrying.
[SPEAKER_01]: They hit, they hit knurgle by being desperate to get out from underneath the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[SPEAKER_01]: They're plotting and scanning against each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could not love technology more.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were in my mind actually significantly more.
[SPEAKER_01]: They should have had a more of an effect on the warp than humanity did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they actually were doing this after humanity, but there were more of them, and they were more desperate and more depraved in their actions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were just don't have to have any short lived.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't, they're problem with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't short live Necroman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We live for more.
[SPEAKER_01]: We live for four hundred years versus an L-DAR.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not so yeah, you're like you don't you don't live forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a bum.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you guys even live you're like a may fly?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's what is your purpose to be in line with GW because you don't want to be crazy on the cannon, but also that's kind of how that's how I rationalize that for me because I think that they you powered up a gun and then the humanity put the cherry on top and made them push them over the edge, which maybe
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I, that's all I feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can give that in a bit where it turns out like some of the gods really get their power more from people reaching out to them in desperation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and I think humanity doesn't make it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think the elder, and I don't think the other, and I don't think the other team didn't even know about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: This true, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the elder were callous in the fact that I'm above everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to reach out to anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the argument could be made of the races in the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Humanities are most likely to make deals with chaos, God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Humanity was aware and willing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: The elder, I don't think the elder would have made because they had their own.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, because they were so arrogant though.
[SPEAKER_02]: They also had their own gods, but they were also a race at the height of their power.
[SPEAKER_02]: Elder felt that why would I ever make a deal with
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, to be fair, I mean, in that regard, because I'm really quick with Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if your humanity, you would make a deal with Nurgle to relieve your suffering from, say, the black plague, whereas if you're the Eldar, you had Isha.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the heck, you make me better, and Isha goes, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had Isha, but also they were kind of mailing in, which is why they got defeated.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, but that is what they got to feed it because elders didn't worship their gods at the time, ever height of their, at the creation of slenet, pre slenesh and about to be slenesh, they were whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: So their gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just telling you, it's not the elder cast might be parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a big thing because the other, well, they'll have caused a lot of problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I both love Eldar.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got some of the best lore in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're the oldest, and they're the oldest race in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a good combo for two casts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they're the oldest race in the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're also like, that might be our fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, when you're going over everything that's happened in the history, you're like, so we also did that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's our bad on that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back after a quick break.
[SPEAKER_01]: But getting into the birth of the chaos gods, what according to GW, the canon is effectively over time, these, the warp began to ripple.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this, the serene lake became ripples, those ripples became waves.
[SPEAKER_01]: As more and more emotion flooded into it, that's where you, these, this power starts to grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it begins to thirst for lack of a better phrase.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[SPEAKER_01]: with deals come later, what I'm saying is initially.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I, I hundred percent believe because we, the gods got powered up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that they're there and they are effectively infinitely powerful because they have an infinite infinite, again, air quotes source of energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are infinitely, possibly powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then humanity basically put again, put the chair on top, and it makes them cross.
[SPEAKER_02]: It allows them to cross.
[SPEAKER_02]: They allowed them to be fully sentient with a, in our time sentient.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were already immensely, they were beings of, excuse me, immense knowledge and power, but they had, for us, they didn't interact in ways we can understand until humanity went,
[SPEAKER_02]: I will give you whatever deal with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'll let me, right, if they started making deals with the devil, that's where it begins to come out because what happens is this thirst, what I like is, and I forget actually where I read this so I apologize, I should source this one, but effectively it starts off with just kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: You will use corn.
[SPEAKER_01]: People wage war, they kill those battle lust, and that ripple is growing into a wave.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a certain point, you know, like any wave, the wave goes down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the wave goes down, it kind of gets sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it goes down because, you know, the blood lust has ended.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it begins to search for more bloodlust to make that wave larger and larger.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what the stories you get is you get people start getting whispers in the backs of their ears.
[SPEAKER_01]: You start getting dreams because the chaos guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they gain enough sentience to be able to reach new.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is primarily humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: reach into humanity, it starts saying, hey, you should do this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give you the, the why, um, zinch and corn still kind of go together because zinch whispers all the, you should get power.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should want more knowledge.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should, you should want everything your brother has, the neighbor in country has, whatever it puts all of those thoughts in and then corn gets the, the reality of all the things that zinch put in.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're both
[SPEAKER_02]: they, he should corn work together pretty well despite it is like do I know but like they go together I'm really well and that's also why
[SPEAKER_02]: Those two don't war as much as the others.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dory, as we're doing some casts on them about how much so many of his chaos gods hate each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Siege and Nergolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just saying in the game, you can do corn, you can do zange, you should not do corn and sling.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just threw on that out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The challenge with the warp is that there is no such thing as a limitless source of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I disagree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, right, there's, there's it, you might be able to always draw from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a class of clouds.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a difference between limitless and consequence.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a better way of putting it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there is wild consequences.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the work is a limitless source of power.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you feed it, the problem, what I'm getting at is that if, if all of us will use, man, we're jumping ahead here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll use a tear in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: if the tyrannids were to conquer the galaxy and eat the galaxy, there is an argument to be made the warp would disappear because there would be nothing to feed the warp anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the warp would be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: He would be, but if a non-cent, actually more of a necrontic, if a non-centy creature, not a warp type, it's more like maybe something that just doesn't
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the question, what would the ternids do?
[SPEAKER_01]: The ternids ate the entire galaxy, consumed all the biomass and the galaxy and left the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the war would be fine because the warp is infinite and everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine, the argument about the warp is that if you remove what feeds the warp,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I don't think it's limitless, because if I remove what seems, you know what, we will just move on for that, because we have one thing we kind of want to talk about is the way that the gods are coming into being in this last little bit of sentience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting to talk about how they were originally affecting the mortal realms for lack of a better term for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was these whispers, there's these things, because it wasn't just that they would whisper in your mind and tell you to do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was too full.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would whisper in your mind, tell you to do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you did that thing, it would reward it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would get rid of reward you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is why I think we pushed them over the edge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is because because I think that they were in the Brad Con.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they achieve full what they are now our version of sentient.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they were already powerful beings saying, but when they kept sending out because that they're so powerful that they just do things because
[SPEAKER_02]: they are thought and feeling made manifest.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did things because that's what they do.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a scorpion stabbed you while you're on the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I do, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they did that, but then they started getting something back from the thing that they were already just ex.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were so powerful that they're sending that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think two good examples of this would be a corn example is a first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a corn example is corn.
[SPEAKER_01]: C.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: potential champion was a Genghis Khan time scenario and whispers in Genghis is here to begin to begin a conquest Genghis does this means a conquest and as he wins corn and abuse him with more and more power which makes more and more people fall behind Genghis.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not only is Genghis more powerful, but now he has now his retude is growing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is why we're seeing Choso because Zech makes him have more ability to politically be
[SPEAKER_02]: powerful in his current empire he knows over he's learning his knowledge of how how do I make this happen how do I make this large Empire exist well because these keeps giving me more and more ability to to manipulate my own because he because he and what happens with what these chaos got to doing it's not just they want
[SPEAKER_01]: you to do the action.
[SPEAKER_01]: They want people around you to do the action, because the more that are doing the action, the better they may, and they may even reward some of them a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to reward you the first, because they're trying to make you their champion.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other example I was going to, you know, I couldn't figure out one for slenesh, or like for a knurkel, for slenesh, for the safety of us keeping a good rating on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go with British baking championship.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, Nash is the same thing where you know, but slenash is as much as we talk about the pleasure called to these.
[SPEAKER_01]: You won first slenash a lot of actually early success and perfection.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the idea was if you want, you're a composer, you are an artist, you are a cook.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's, I actually, the more I wrote this, the more I realized that any of you ever worked in a kitchen, slenash.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also, it's the artist thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's slenish is a patron of the arts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though it's heresy, like the horse heresy novels, but the big tapestry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really great story.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, is that you didn't turn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Screw it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The emperors children didn't get turned because they wanted to be a pleasure call.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got turned because of perfection of that the emperors children was known for perfection.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when they strove for, but in striving for perfection, you strive for excess.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's how they got them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you gain vanity, which creates, and that what all these gods have is they also have an exploitation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Corn is exploiting fear of failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurgle exploits your fear of death.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeanj exploits your fear of unfeeling fear.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to fear of fear and slash exploits your fear of failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what these guys want.
[SPEAKER_01]: Slash is biggest one is that you put all this effort into being perfect and you're not perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be you're going to be chastised.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be you're going to be seen as lesser.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can, and these are just, these are all such raw emotions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where the GW may be correct in their writing that the humanity feels these raw emotions a lot more.
[SPEAKER_01]: And given the humanity has a much shorter lifespan than an elder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you wouldn't theory get more stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's, let's see, is that elder may feel it stronger, but humanity is so much more willing to make a deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because
[SPEAKER_02]: Eldar in their unlimited vanity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they broke the sky and they made Selenash.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about that in a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can't offer them a deal when they go, I'll just make reality what I want it to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, my guess is, Zeanche, I do think probably had some effect in Eldar, the more the Zeanche and the Black Lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they were conniving on the... Because Zeanche has his own version of the Black Lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what is why I'm saying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, they kind of lined up a real shout, but the rest of them...
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like again, Nurgle and he should negate Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Slanesh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm moving for the slanesh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, it was a big piece of a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, slanesh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: But outside of slanesh, I would do slanesh, then zinesh probably distant than corn, Nurgle, as far as it is just corn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's my point because they had their own versions of it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They had their own versions of each God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't matter for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had their own thing, which sets a little laughing guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do another thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really fun cast and just we'll have to cast just on Eldar Gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just laughing guys, boss mobile, but continue.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the biggest thing is is that the gods are effectively getting what they want humans more than they've ever gotten from anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is creating an exponential growth of the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: We awaited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of a nice linear line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, main lords get your stalks meme out for me because that's what's happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to be old and do inflation in Greece in
[SPEAKER_02]: Stokes is where we want to go John.
[SPEAKER_01]: We should go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Stokes is much better.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know who's got their pulse on what's hip?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then fifty-two year old man.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, by the time half the people, listen to this, I'll be fifty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're both.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll be, I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be forty-three
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, usually I love that you're like, whoa, slow your roll.
[SPEAKER_01]: I roll that bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not plan that as far out for you, Rick.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would probably, are you gonna get home today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's, let's focus on episode two hundred, not episode two thousand.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm split up getting, you know, like, I love you to death, buddy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I think it doesn't have you live with that lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the odds are not great on, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was,
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[SPEAKER_02]: Pist is off pretty much everybody except for normal who just doesn't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Nurgle, things like that just cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because Lanesh changes the topography of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the, let's go to pre-slinish.
[SPEAKER_01]: So pre-slinish, these gods all burst.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the order is corn comes first followed by Zeech and then Nurgle, which I still think you should have been corn, Nurgle Zeech.
[SPEAKER_01]: That just me personally because I think Nurgle had a lot more of
[SPEAKER_02]: to talk about humanity having a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: The black plague was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I think plague, pastula and so rebirth is more common than knowledge, but I wasn't looking for hit knowledge while I was dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I but whatever, I'll let them do their thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They wrote it not me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they burst and now they take the now take form.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of a sudden, like we can actually describe what corn looks like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeem to the tricky one and we'll get to that later.
[SPEAKER_01]: What Nurgo looks like, by the way, it's a great unclean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a big, it's great unclean when you've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're trying to say what Zeem's looks like, you mean, the Lord of change doesn't maintain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: For some reason, it's got a weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't maintain a static form.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was slap you from here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, the warp actually now takes form.
[SPEAKER_01]: The warp fragment, even though it's infinite, we do get like regions within the warp that have shape, function, buildings, et cetera, which are also always shifting and changing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is, it's, it's, and then eventually still national joins the party, which the other guys, by the way, wrecks everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Super not happy about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And each of these regions that they've got are there to serve their purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got servants.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got entertainment.
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually wage war against each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they don't just wage war in the physical sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't wage war as I'm going to hit you with my sword.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they wage war.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like the devil on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They wage war on a emotional for your soul.
[SPEAKER_01]: They they actually wage war in the work.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm saying there are even invasions on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are a lot of times on in another emotional thing where they're trying to convince and make people do things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because again, thought is manifest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Emotion is manifest in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just I will punch you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's I will unmake you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will, I will basically corrupt NERGLE.
[SPEAKER_02]: NERGLE just tries to corrupt Realms sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who's gets bored?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I lost every fight we've ever had.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, everyone that fought me is sick now, so I'm gonna let me have this a real thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a nice realized where half I went to the cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we should describe the four gods.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're gonna be nitpicking about stuff, John.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there are four gods.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get to talk about the explosion of the warpan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine, there's technically a fifth, which we're not gonna cover because it just got red condotted.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also, there's possibly a sixth stammer.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, and also, you get to talk about the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the new book, yeah, that's, that would be.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also a towel, God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Possibly.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a towel, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just hate towels so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a towel, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there's nothing could love the towel.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's gonna talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: So hard for.
[SPEAKER_02]: But first off, Slash, before we go into the describing him, Slash explodes because Eldar have issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: Slash is the vain of the Eldar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Slash, through everybody on this, Slash is an Eldar God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Period.
[SPEAKER_02]: It might not be a good Eldar God, but it is an Eldar God.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do all of our souls go when they die?
[SPEAKER_01]: They do, but I don't think I would argue with here, but you hear because you should still alive and E-sik can't touch humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: In slow-nash can touch humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only reason I'd argue with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that one is that slow-nash.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna talk about the gods now.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll let Discord tell me about what my thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually please give your opinion here because I think we'll be doing people think about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of where I'm drawing the line is I think that the elder gods
[SPEAKER_01]: There are there's a couple random stories than touchy humanity, but for the most part they don't But the chaos gods do they touch a lot of touchy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's it's touchy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's talk about the cats.
[SPEAKER_02]: So corn is the god.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, got a war the easiest to understand the easiest to go
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but let me say war though.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's not just war.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's and it's violence is brutality, but with but also strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is corn.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, scorn doesn't scorn does not like strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Corn likes bloodshed, my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I'd say maybe strikes on one would conquest is actually by the better one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the god of coyote.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that strategy?
[SPEAKER_01]: He hates strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He likes conquest.
[SPEAKER_01]: He likes victory.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not even just he likes victory.
[SPEAKER_02]: Corn likes from the fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Corn likes war because you think about it when you summon blood for the blood God doesn't mean your enemy's blood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Blood for the blood God means any one was blood and on that note, corn doesn't like like, um, where we called defenseless slaughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: That likes he wants real war.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're going to talk about slenesh, reason corn hates slenesh as we talked about at the the siege of terror.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the emperor's children just effed off and went went to go just raid the gap and murder everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not corn.
[SPEAKER_01]: just sees that as like you're just attacking innocent civilians who are unarmed, who are not because they're innocent because they're unarmed.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why it doesn't like power.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of corn wants the fight in the fight for for the fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, corn actually might reward you more.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you fought and got killed in the fight, he's more likely that to raise you, give you more power so you can try it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you at least, me, if you're a person,
[SPEAKER_01]: who gets in a bar fight with say, ten other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that you're already at me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's been like thirty years as you get this by life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where I hell of a time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that thirty years doesn't actually put me in the eighties.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're a fun side note, I was at Costco earlier, and I was buying something in the person that they saw me, they put it in a birthday, it was buying wine, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the birthday they put it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it
[SPEAKER_01]: the level of difference between that date and the date.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was born.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm adding to this because you can edit it out if you're well, but I think people like this story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just at a tournament and there were three people at the table and the waitress asked for IDs and I looked at her like with a quizzical look and she goes, not you.
[SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a real story that's just to have it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, no, well, obviously not.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Zeech is the god of knowledge, sort of.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is the god of knowledge, but it's actually also the god of deception as a result of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The best part about Zeech for me is Zeech overlaps with the corn so well, because he's the one driving these battles, these conquest, because you want power, you want knowledge, you'll get that by doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: How am I going to go about this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I would argue, Zinch makes more wars happen than cornmix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, very much so cornmix conquests.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zinch makes wars.
[SPEAKER_01]: The galaxy shifts because of Zinch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Corn just corn planets shift because of that's the how I would describe it to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zinch is also
[SPEAKER_01]: is a trickster.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to just like to mess with things for the sake of messing with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: To the point, it will cover us in our siege cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one's really sure what siege is play is because it's so heavily layered with deception and deception.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but also Zeanx is planning for forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're like, hey, you, it looks like Zeanx took a big out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, well, not really because a hundred thousand years from now, Zeanx's plan is going to come from fruition.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what does that have to do with me?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, oh, god, nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just this is a Zeanx.
[SPEAKER_02]: I live forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I give any shit about what happened today?
[SPEAKER_01]: NERGLE is the next one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Papad NERGLE grant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Papad NERGLE's actually thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, of the, of the chaos gods, Zeanj and NERGLE, I kind of bounce between which when I like the most, depending on the stories, I enjoy NERGLE because NERGLE is entropy.
[SPEAKER_01]: NERGLE is, so he's known as the god of playing into K.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's more than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurgle is also the god of rebirth because what Nurgle knows is everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Effectively, if you break down chemistry to its lowest level, there are a set amount of atoms available in the universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are ever expanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: They come back as something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a set number.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in order to make something new, something has to be broken down.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is what Nurgle does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Nurgle is inevitable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the term that we use for Nurgle like?
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurgle's viewpoint is, is it a little bit gross?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's pretty smelly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's pretty smelly.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've ever had, if you've eaten bad oysters.
[SPEAKER_02]: After I ruined stuff, well, I mean, something will grow out of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, if you, if you, if you get violent diarrhea, no somewhere that violent diarrhea, those carbons are getting broken down and it's going to be turned into something.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be my defile attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what Nergal does.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Nergal doesn't do it like they like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy, happy, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of, a lot of fiber bowel movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not Nergal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nergal's team, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the destroyer boxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Nergal's grip the sides of that porcelain throne and let it rip.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a Nergal maneuver right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back after a quick break.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Nergal's really cool because that cause he, Nergal plays of all of them, he actually plays the longest game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas, you know, we talk about zeem.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's trying to always trickster things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurgles just inevitable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what makes Nurgle kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his followers all know it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of also doesn't give a shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Nurgles, the least the least shit giving a ball of luck.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the happiest of all of them, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't follow the Nurgle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't follow
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about Beast Noodle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you might die because of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You won't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You won't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You won't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: A hundred percent will die because of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they do want to play.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, your girl armies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually the demon army.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is the most fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to talk about this in that cast, but spoil-pock-scrivener.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Slimex.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's slimex.
[SPEAKER_01]: I honestly just like, he just like nerdlings.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's riding a snail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nerdlings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just like nerdlings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't they take an objective because they're untrustworthy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was their old special role.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they got rid of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the last one, though, is the course is slenesh.
[SPEAKER_01]: So slenesh is the god of, it's really the god of, they call it the god of excess, but Brad said it really well, or they're going to go back to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the god of perfection because in, in the pursuit of perfection, you will get excess.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really, I think you said it like that's a really good way.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's literally a patreon of the arts, and that is literally where I actually was correct for a change when I said literally.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he is, it always goes bad in the end, but in the beginning, your bones from slenash make you a better artist musician.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever your artists and skills are, Mason, you get your bones from slenash and they do make you better and in the end,
[SPEAKER_02]: The floor is going to always fall out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: Read every single story about doing a deal with the devil.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's Linesh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Monkey Paul deal with devil.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Slimesh, what Slimesh does is slash feeds off of your desire for perfection.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it is just you need it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why he grew so fast though, because it was the easiest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, very much so the easiest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,
[SPEAKER_01]: As we've discussed all of them, one thing to note, and we've been hinting at it, but let's dive in more of you as these gods hate each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some more than others, but I can't put enough ages on the hate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so capitalized.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where I also cast hasn't just wrecked shop through the galaxy, because every single time that Brad worshiped corn,
[SPEAKER_02]: and John were some exchange and we're about to raid the final floor of the main boss.
[SPEAKER_02]: We immediately attacked each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, we're about to win.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're about to make the final level beat the final boss.
[SPEAKER_01]: They say not shared glory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Never, never, ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is referred to in the care and the warp as the great game.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are costly trying to, and the truth is when you read about the great game, it sounds like they're trying to kill each other, but it's not really likely that these guys can even kill each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more they're just trying to undermine each other and create embarrassments.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like a Joker thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I don't want to kill you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that if any of the guns could actually kill the other guy, they would be, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that I couldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: battle against you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I want to do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would I bother with that?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's a talk for a different day on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one exception to this, though, was the Horace Harrison.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been service fantasy players.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had an arc.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a forty key, Lord cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I have more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our fantasy, uh, Lord cast, which spoiler alert, the game died.
[SPEAKER_01]: The unique exception was the horse heresy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is only because as we discussed, the emperor at one point with Malkador did a little walk about into the.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the emperor's a dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: got from the the chaos got the secrets of how to make the primarks told you he do something in return did not do it and the chaos got to it by the way super did that do it to the ever went hey man can I have this knowledge and they're like for this knowledge you have to do A through Z in the upper went I will one hundred percent do every one of these and then immediately left the cascades went
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he's going to do anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not going back.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not going back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel like he's not even going to start with a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he did not.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, none of the Emperor not do the things that he's doing the opposite.
[SPEAKER_02]: He took the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he actually took everything they asked for and made a plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: The counter.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Emperor went to the chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: God's amazing deal with them to make them more powerful than ever before.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like the hit we've gotten from the Lord.
[SPEAKER_01]: And instead endeavored to make them no longer exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a long plan of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which he probably could have told his sons.
[SPEAKER_01]: We won't get into that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just I pretty stand should have probably just talked for eight seconds about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We wouldn't have held Nalkador and don't don't kill him who knows anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these guys, chaos gods did align for a little bit and this is how they were able to be so successful in the early parts of the horse heresy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Horace was not corrupted by a chaos guy is corrupted by all the chaos guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, different primarks, not as successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we kind of saw over time, we, this, that fracture started to fall apart and where to fall apart at the moment of glory as we get closer and closer to the actual time of
[SPEAKER_02]: Horace was about to win.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the gods went, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want all of my guys to win.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they lost.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as soon as members, as soon as Horace has gone, there was zero.
[SPEAKER_02]: They went from zero to here or here of the zero, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: on that because as soon as Horace has gone, it's almost a shockwave.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're instantly back to no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I mean, all of the, the, the trailer is all turned on each other as soon as Horace goes instantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Done and right, we're attacking killing each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: with no care for the fact that you guys are still fighting these guys don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were attacking me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're work.
[SPEAKER_01]: He asked lesions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Trader became just like we're attacking each other in front of Loyalist lately.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jens are like, so do we.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who are we shooting at?
[SPEAKER_01]: We can just see the money Python and life of Brian where all the rebels that the Romans are standing watching them all stand each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'll just arrest Brian.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a big deal in that and the thing is is that that's why and it's the same thing, you know, evil corrupts and that's why evil has the one is because evil always turns on itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is is that has been the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think from the end of the horrors,
[SPEAKER_01]: the God's power explodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because... Oh, bonkers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because as I was talking earlier, the elder had conquered the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that wasn't enough to really move the gods, but one small planet in the middle of the Milky Way, not only in a quarter of the Milky Way, with over fifty million people, birthed three chaos gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take that one planet.
[SPEAKER_01]: and make it millions, because it's over a million systems.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now it's millions.
[SPEAKER_01]: The population, we thought, don't unhyves it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which are also weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wildly more populist than the elder.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a thousand, it could be, I don't even know the number.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably, it's probably million, million times more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the truth is that you're looking at the, if a hive, because they were a low birth rate civil civil society.
[SPEAKER_01]: The hive city can have twenty billion people in a single hive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a planet could have a hundred billion to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, elders, planet, like any other planet was a joke compared to a hive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the humanity and every one of these souls,
[SPEAKER_01]: does reach into the work in one way or another.
[SPEAKER_02]: So by and so many of them are willing to make a deal at a moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is where kind which elder never went.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is why at the, you know, we're right now, we're the forty second millennium.
[SPEAKER_01]: The gods are actually more powerful than they've ever been in history.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, also the Don did make that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I've a done.
[SPEAKER_02]: He did, I've a done did make make
[SPEAKER_01]: Walmarted up the the imperium.
[SPEAKER_02]: He did help it out a little bit because he got the galaxy and you said helped it out a little bit like he was a he was a greeter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: He cut the galaxy in half and spilled the emitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, into the material.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's from the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cause of the stage are more powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've ever been and have more access to the material than they've ever had.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you, you're okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to go over there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll like, you'll have to go through the warp.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the dude broke the sky for the second time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, the first one was kind of a little, if we're being honest, the elder didn't really break the sky that badly when you compare it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_02]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put a hole in the sky.
[UNKNOWN]: They put a hole
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could have did could have plugged the whole.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they mean the Necrots had a plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's a plan to plug the whole.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the band-in-ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, from here, in the next few casts, we're going to get into, whether you two casts, doing the four gods, splitting them up two and two.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what we wanted to do is spend some time on kind of generic forces of chaos, because one of the things that, the certain things that all the chaos gods have in common, so we wanted to dive away with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's called this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's,
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have to talk to check the notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just cultists.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have to keep it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cultists and demons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, but we have to talk about cultists and why because everybody goes, why would you ever follow a dark guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know why you're going to follow a dark cod?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the Imperium is how we already did cast on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just sucks so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every part of life in the Imperian is hell.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, why are you a cultist?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because yes, that's why I'm a cultist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone offered me anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, hey man, I was going to make your day not putting nails in your eyeballs.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, yeah, I'd like to not do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, you could probably lose your soul.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, yeah, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: it all right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but we'll go back to the, the, the cultists actually were entering as cultists predate, Horace Harris.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the cultists have been around and the, we don't have, the Imperial history doesn't give us enough detail on this, but what we do know is that a lot of the worlds that were discovered during the Great Crusade were corrupted were corrupted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's going in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: The, all of the interestingly, none of the new, the God that they are worshipping, like, Cold Jesus, one of these, whatever, Katie, it was called originally, they all
[SPEAKER_01]: They just worship a chaos guy and work sure what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because this was a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the thing is, is that right after the dark age of technology, which was literally the golden age of having a game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was the golden age until.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was this nice little inflection point of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I am sure sky net was awesome up until it wasn't true.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, sky that would bend after they clicked it on, but whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, those eight seconds were worth that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can, we're going to defeat the Russians.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to overplay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but the thing is, is that we had these disconnected planets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, the Imperium has worlds that aren't self-sufficient.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're in a non-self-sufficient world, and all of a sudden you were cut off,
[SPEAKER_02]: because exactly, so you start worshiping whoever will help you out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what happened on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a world here and there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was thousands, more tens of thousands of worlds.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is we talk about the great crusade, and especially we did the cast on Dark Angels about the First Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they had to eliminate an entire planet, every single living species.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they were all kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're all crooked cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of those people didn't even know they were corrupted by cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just knew that I'm doing what we have to do because everybody was going to do because I've been worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been doing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been doing it for a thousand years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, remember, we've had what where was the dark age of technology?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Big time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big time line, but yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll be tens of thousands of years.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You work really cut off.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the forty-second millennia, though, there's even more of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just... Yes, because the Imperium's a trash wire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is why Bobby G woke back up and went, come on, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to remake the Imperium for the second time.
[SPEAKER_02]: When Beloved just shows up with the pizzas and goes...
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, let's go another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what you're seeing, what happens in the forty-second millennia is exactly this.
[SPEAKER_01]: The man kind of, a chaos cultist, they came actually, usually from not even a bad place.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just someone gets a little bit of joy from doing something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's actually chaos guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they tell everyone, oh, hey, I started doing this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you should all do it with me too, and then we're all, and we're happy, or it starts off on like a bad, mitten club, or whatever, it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually they're carving symbols in their chest.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's go on that, though, because if that's the thing, it's just like, people go, how would, I've had a lot of people actually talk about this, because I'm willing to start a nerd conversation up in a moment, so that's by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I've talked about this and they go, well, how would everybody ever go into a cascode?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what's going to happen?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, the Imperium puts down any knowledge of chaos and no one's aware of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not coming up to you with your worshiping a cascode.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're saying, I can make your life slightly less
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go back to something we talked about, maybe twenty minutes ago, where the chaos gods are infusing a person.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Zeanch, Nurgos, Lanesh, Corn, they're infusing a person, they're infusing a leader with greater power.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're looking, you could be something as simple as like, you want to rise up against, you know, you're in the body, you're in an underside, an under-hive.
[SPEAKER_01]: right, you want to rise up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this one gang seems to win all their battles.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go join them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't realize they're a corn, you know, warband because they don't know they're a corn warband yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the most of the time in the Imperium, you find out
[SPEAKER_02]: so far down the road what is actually happening that it's wildly too late because all you were trying to do is go everything sucks can it suck less not gonna not suck just gonna suck a little bit less
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the Imperium is again a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, Imperium friends, but like it is a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one wants to be the period for the regular people.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you're a super soldier, shit's on point.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like if you're Brad in the forty-second millennium,
[SPEAKER_02]: Stuff's not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stuff's really not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, and this is where like these gods would be, and so kind of just go for the, the corruptions that you'd have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nurgle, you're gonna get plagues.
[SPEAKER_01]: People go to Nurgle to get relief from the plague.
[SPEAKER_01]: How he gets the relief.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, come on later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even just relief.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want, this is the, the mistake, every, the, more terrier made this mistake.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to die.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Nurgle goes, finger guns.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, cut it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You won't die.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, you're like, so I'm still horribly injured.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, yeah, but you won't die.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I should have read the fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should have definitely not just clicked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a corn war band is easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeans the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're an inventor, you're an artist.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just trying to break through.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeans will do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you join this cult of people who all worship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you did again all of your noise and were you producing the best art, the best music anyone's ever seen?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because it's literally magically.
[SPEAKER_02]: I lost because my art wasn't magic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get into later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the stuff Slenej does there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, your paintings probably always going to win when it's interactive with your audience.
[SPEAKER_02]: I lost why my painting wasn't magic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, even Zeanch, Zeanch is one of my favorites where people are just trying to gain a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to invent something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just politicians.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually not to be fair with your at Zeanch really is it's psychers.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a psycher who's got some psychic powers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm saying from the regular folk, he has every politician in his bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeanch, we're going to call me Paul.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need knowledge and power.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to cover Zeanch and a little bit of a Zeanch just
[SPEAKER_01]: teaser for that episode, because actually it's the next episode we're going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zeanch has represents the least amount of cults in the Imperium, and he's the most feared by the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, what are the two worst things?
[SPEAKER_01]: Them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the cultist, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other commonality throughout are of course demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about, you know, chaos gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're probably going to have to talk about demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demons fall into kind of three categories, lesser, greater, and prints.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we can't even do it in those order, because like the greater, the greater demons would be mad that you just compare them to demon princess.
[SPEAKER_01]: The imprints is a more powerful wordings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's this.
[SPEAKER_02]: These imprints are demon princes are people that have an elevated demon prince.
[SPEAKER_02]: Greater demons are the most manifest of the real of the gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sort of a changeling is a lesser demon.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a thought change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like one of them is a lesser demon.
[SPEAKER_02]: True.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's more powerful than I'm just saying that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna cover it, don't worry, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a weird little name to create your demons.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're gonna be like, hey, you just set a demon prince when you talk to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore.
[SPEAKER_02]: When Rada gets shows up, he's like, who's the demon prince that said was talking shit, basically?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Scarbren?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, Scarbren, we probably have an opinion.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the Scarbren versus Angron.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they probably wouldn't debate it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a lot of, lot of hitting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think a lot of like, I have this power point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I, can I walk you through my, like, my essay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cited my sources.
[SPEAKER_01]: Source number one is chain sword.
[SPEAKER_01]: Source number two is ax.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll start with kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: Demons and their forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demons at their core exists to serve the chaos gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are their manifestation of will by the chaos gods.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are formless until they have to do a function.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they gain and then they gain.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a real thing though because they do not lesser demons are nothing until they have to do something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the lowest form of these ones, we're kind of going order of basically size, which can do size because power varies as bread and we're just kind of messing around with.
[SPEAKER_01]: The power of these guys swings around a lot because you get some small guys who are light, you're as powerful and some big guys who are just pointless.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the smallest are demonic beasts, dogs, horses, bulls, manteras, you know, whatever it is, whatever the God wants to manifest as an animal that just kind of does its will.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these are getting the way kind of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have no real, I guess it's intelligence.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just, it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just, they are bound by will, but they kind of act on whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most basal desire that that God, that that God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the exception of nerglings who are a little bit weird because nerglings have, nerglings are a giant higher form because nerglings are awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, nerglings are mini, mini, mini, mini nerglings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they have smallest version of those are free.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because they do whatever, nerglings do what nerglings going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but do they have free will or do they just have a lot of trash where they have poor impulse control, but they have one impulse that is to do nergling things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they want, they're basically criminals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, their, their, their things are awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: They really are awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the models cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the, the beasts of chaos and their things, they're just the, the basal level.
[SPEAKER_01]: The next one are the lesser demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And these have the most awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the majority of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also the, it's what the gods are known for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about your blood letters.
[SPEAKER_01]: blood letters.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about your play bears, your blood letters, your Damon ads, you know, your horrors that the in forty-cate, the battle line guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are the things that are most populous and they are the soldiers there and they are dumped out in what could be infinite numbers if you could project the emotion enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: They will never stop coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: They will exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you could give enough battle, you could have a never ending search of bloodletters.
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is is that you can only fight for so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, eventually, everything dies.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have a kind of a basic level of intelligence, although this does shift a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem with lesser demons is there are a couple lesser demons who are incredibly powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the thing is, is that if you give a named, because we're going to do that a lot of actually named.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Named ones are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Named ones leading.
[SPEAKER_02]: Other ones can make this have way more tactics, way more
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could be having this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm not mistaken, I don't think you graduate up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you start as a beast of chaos and then become a lesser demon and then become a greater demon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the God manifests them individually with different levels of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they grow inside of that though.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I'm getting as I think that you don't have like, it's not like demons and deity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they don't grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just they are.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, from larvae to last year to greater when a great unclean one is just something that that neural creates from it's core.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of a great unclean ones will jump to greater demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: greater than lesser.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of that's you know what I'm going to end the cast with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is all the knowledge you need.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are they are a larger version of a demon who are more in there now.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a wild understatement.
[SPEAKER_02]: My bicycle is slightly smaller than a Sherman tank.
[SPEAKER_02]: Both provide transportation.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just gave me fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Greater demons are massively powerful and they're also massively intelligent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sources of their gods power.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they actually can act.
[SPEAKER_01]: in as the God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they can they act independently.
[SPEAKER_02]: They can they can start system wide multi system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why wars and coercion lords of change are known for the action more often than not when we see a zinch infection or chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually not from zinch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from a lord of change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the same with like greatly more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, scheming there.
[SPEAKER_02]: The shit is going down when you actually see these guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Shit is at the fan either.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't show up by themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're sure up with an entire army.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had them because they also have to have again for demons to be made manifest.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to have an over abundance of there.
[SPEAKER_02]: emotion, they're feeling their war, they're lost, they're excess.
[SPEAKER_02]: The whatever it is, you have to have a shit ton of it, and chat these guys show up, which is a big deal on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're really, and what they are, what's interesting about them is that when you kind of start reading more and more the lore around them, you'll discover that they end up actually becoming
[SPEAKER_01]: the hand of the God more often but there's brother, but they act independently.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just but they because they're a manifestation of the God though.
[SPEAKER_01]: They rarely go against the God.
[SPEAKER_02]: They really can't because of the fact that they're made up of the essence of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Friends, the only one is because he happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: He got, he got Jack by saying to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then punched corn.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now he's just, I mean, sometimes you got to get thrown for eight days and then your wings get ripped off.
[SPEAKER_02]: because Zeanch told you, you could definitely take corn on, which was basically like an infant attacking a type, but whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last one is a little bit, and Brad never had Brad hinted on it really well earlier, Demon Princess, who are both more powerful and less powerful than we thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be really proud.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is such a wild scale, because you have Demon Prince Ted, who beat up five guardsmen,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he's a demon prince, and then you have more Terrian.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, those are not the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it means lords give me this and the what these are not the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mortarian versus a great unclean one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Mortarian kills it.
[SPEAKER_02]: a great unclean one verse that the imprints of nargal just giggles and he's not even sure he accidentally goes oh I'm sorry were you I thought you were just you were talking to me yeah I'm so sorry I accidentally killed you yeah I just miss moving on my day yeah like my bad I was reaching for my coffee and I punched a hole through your face
[SPEAKER_01]: The only next human prince is important is that a lot of human princes are one of a few pieces of chaos that can manifest easily inside the material because a lot of them because they're more than before.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were mortal before because of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They serve a really key role for the chaos gods because they are like the eye of terror before it was the rift, I guess, of terror.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one ever talked about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the, I don't know what we call anymore, it's just the rift, but the thing is is that
[SPEAKER_02]: Demon princes are staging points for incursions because they exist in both.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they have one foot in one foot out and there are a lot of times more important to the gods than the greater demons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, they're always actually more important.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're more important because they can do that one piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're close.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're key pieces.
[SPEAKER_01]: It allows them to actually, whereas the greater demons allow them to affect the material, the deeper it's allowing them to enter it, which is more important.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the last little kind of piece on them that we should talk about is they are all immortal.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you give your soul to a chaos God, you become effectively immortal.
[SPEAKER_01]: That soul always belongs to that God.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's a huge boon and a huge suck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, well, you're a mortal.
[SPEAKER_02]: For those of us that are trying to stay alive, that sounds awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this isn't a mortal like a vampire.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a, so I have to do your bidding in all times.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you're bidding sucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And every time I die, quotation marks, I come right back to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And immediately have to go do whatever that all you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a reincarnated immortality.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not immune to harm, you're not immune to death.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just die and your soul is owned by the God who then just re-manifest you to do the thing you're supposed to in the first place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes that thing sucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: The actually most of the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and ever, ever, ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is a weird deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last one, let's just let's just also touch on because because we're, if we're going to cover the four gods individually, I want to spend a little bit of time just briefly on chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can't survive it's so weird though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's a, it's a really
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because the reason I want to do this is because I don't want to throw people the wrong direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want people thinking that chaos is only one of four choices.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is another choice and that choice is chaos undivided, where multiple forces of chaos get together and fight together for a common goal, like horse heresy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, it's not just cats and divided isn't, I appreciate all the gods.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it's, I don't care about any of the gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just touched by cats and now I need power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's others that don't know any better and just,
[SPEAKER_02]: There, they just no cast exists.
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't given themselves over to an individual god.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's, I don't perterabble.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who?
[SPEAKER_01]: There, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even care about cast, but I just wanted to kill Robert Dorne.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and apparently I'm here now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how's this work?
[SPEAKER_02]: And or people like, I'm crazy, like Conrad Cruz and the Nightlords, which like, I was real busy being a serial killer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to be that me be better at doing that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Conrad's interesting because Conrad really is Slonesh and Corn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to be the best night murderer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's also zane.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also z- And because he can see into the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's real jacked up.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could just be accidentally by neural.
[SPEAKER_01]: This true, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that, it's that piece of suitcase when divided is Abonon's black legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, that's chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's another one who is very prevalent.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you play the table top and the model's freaking incredible, bonkersville.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's Bellicore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore, first off, if you want to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was the first team in Prince is actually one of the oldest models in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the few models that actually crosses over into fantasy and forty-k.
[SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, Lord, he's the first team in Prince and both.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I'm saying, but if I'm correct, if I'm wrong here, he's in forty-k.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in Sigma, and he wasn't fantasy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, I don't, there's only a few that actually have that, that have that distinction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he has almost the same Lord and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a Bellacore is the first ever demon Prince.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one knows where he came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the Black Library of the Elder have no idea where Bellicork came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just our whispers in the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's also forced semi to be the gatekeeper for the new chosen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: which he hates with a passion of a thousands of songs.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of my favorite stories, and this is fantasy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Barkey on was going through his trials.
[SPEAKER_02]: Abadon did a very similar thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Belikor was forced to go, here's your boot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you die.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if it's not today, I hope it's tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Bellachore's name and I want to do more in Bellachore, but it's just not as much we can do yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more because of the demon codex coming eventually that I'll give us a bit more on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Bellachore's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the most he is for those who know and are aware of the forces of chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellachore is the most feared element of chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's also a master manipulator.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why because he is a bellicore, we talk about Abidans ability to manipulate the dark gods in which Abidans able to get these boons from the dark gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Abidans is juiced up and he's got all the powers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Abidans have been doing that for ten thousand years.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been in the warp, but ten thousand years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that was first, but doing that for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, since the warp started.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, who knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore has endless amounts of.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't even know what he is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like his original whatever he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just a giant.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's clear that he was a Necrontia.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see, Tan.
[SPEAKER_01]: What else?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a, that's a, that's a bellicores incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what, what, what, what he does really well is so a bellicores will wage wars with multiple factions of chaos at his side.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's one of the few who's been able to pull this off.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he really, one of the best parts of how many does this is bellicore isn't trying to get momentary glory.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bellicore has
[SPEAKER_02]: plans upon plans.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why Bellicore is so interesting today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same reason, Evidence is extremely, because he's not looking for, we'll go to the scene in that regard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore, Abidon is trying to break the imperial and conquer the imperial and tear it down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore is trying to conquer the galaxy, you know, for the forces of chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is, but it's interesting because both of them would happily kill all four chaos gods if given the opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no, they have no loyalty to those, which is why they probably will never win because at a moment of, they think that any of them have weakness that they could kill them, they would kill them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, corn is very aware of what Bellicor is trying to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's just like new, like I'm going to hit you with a hammer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I will supply you at a moment notice.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Delacore with when Bellacore shows up, what makes him so terrifying is that Bellacore will not show up with one set of demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: He set this up with all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can even show with multiple, he's the only time from a lower standpoint that our table top, you would see competing greater demons.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only scenario is if Bellacore is present because he is powerful enough to actually bring them all together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because he has convinced the chaos gods behind them that he is going to win this battle for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and for them, and they would rather share the glory of other victory than have no glory of individual defeats.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Bellicore, this is chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see Bellicore, that's who he is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bellicore is chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Abadon is Abadon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore is chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore is chaos undivided.
[SPEAKER_01]: My point is that Abadon with the Black Legion, the Black Legion, I'm saying this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's kind of, but I'm saying, Abadhan is your point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Abadhan is Abadhan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Abadhan is more his personality, Bellicore embodies chaos and divided, because he's also sold out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what is cool about Bellicore's?
[SPEAKER_01]: Bellicore's the only one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no, there are no lesser demons of chaos and divided.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no.
[SPEAKER_02]: In a lot of the stories, you can look into there's less of
[SPEAKER_02]: some cool fan faction, but whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bill occurs also made that a thing because he's pretty jealous about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he kind of he's incredibly jealous.
[SPEAKER_02]: He shows up and you're like, Hey, I was worse than we can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody's like, well, not now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not how I was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can either die.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're just going to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll let me look down my list of options.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's just died.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you can spam it because that's the only button you're going to be on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: From there, we're going to come to the end of this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: On our next episode, we're going to dive into the first of our two chaos gods, which is going to be corn and zinc.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing this because we decided to pick the gods who hated each other the least.
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of start that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So corn and zinc, hate each other the least.
[SPEAKER_01]: From there, the one after that will go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to die a bit more into the gods themselves, you know, their lucky numbers, so to speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're followers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's a really, and they actually also wear their home, like what their home world looks like or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about what their portion of the warp looks like and how it kind of fits.
[SPEAKER_02]: It smells.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: And most importantly, how they interact with the Imperium and what the Imperium's viewpoint of each of them is because it is kind of a cool, it's a thing like
[SPEAKER_01]: horn in the Imperium aren't necessarily always at odds.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of, there's some moments where there's some people to think they're very loyal to the Emperor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're hardcore.
[SPEAKER_01]: The hardcore one worshipers, but the Emperor and the Imperium are kind of like, so they just keep winning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, like we'll deal with it later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Harris, he's only here to see if you suck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: With that, though, please again, as we said in the beginning, like and subscribe, join Discord, the links, obviously, in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's growing rapidly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really do, I love the interaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting out of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a warm bread in my heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time someone says something nice about us, because we're both old people who just want to gentle touch every now and then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me I'm still alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please just just a soft tap on the shoulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be relevant.
[SPEAKER_01]: But more importantly, it really is great for us to kind of hear from you all.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does help us steer the cast one of the challenges you have in a forty-gay Lord cast is there is.
[SPEAKER_01]: few hundreds of thousands of hours of content we could do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's nice to just have people say, hey, I really want to know more about this, because it then sends us off onto a weird tangent that we then get to enjoy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: But with that, this is John Barsani and Brad Jester.
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: See you guys next week.
[UNKNOWN]: you