TJ Watt's Future and Ideal 3 Round Draft

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're still on island time. I'm Greg Rosenthal in the Chris Westling podcast studio with a pair of a surprising pair of guests, Jordan Rodrigue of The Athletic and Ross Tucker of a Million Ross Tucker named podcasts.

00:00:21
Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome, Ross.

00:00:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is awesome. I'm out here for the They used to call it the broadcast Bootcamp.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: I thought they still did.

00:00:28
Speaker 3: They don't know, that's the Broadcasting and Media Workshop. So it's something bay change. I actually went. I went to the first one they ever had, two thousand and seven NFL films while I was still a player. I did a million terrible things. Yet I still have a career in the media, which is nice. And I'm a huge fan of Jordan and the work that she does, so it's very cool to be all with her.

00:00:51
Speaker 4: So I think we made Greg feel really left out.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: Ross.

00:00:54
Speaker 4: We might have to apologize him because Ross and I spent the first five minutes of studio time, as you were, like busy trying to put a show together, fangirling over each other.

00:01:04
Speaker 1: So I love it, and I love I love like the instant pressure that this podcast has because We're taping this during broadcast boot camps lunch break, which like started a little late, so we are on the clock here that we have to finish this show quickly, and yet we have three of the biggest honkers that I've ever seen who just like like to talk a lot. I know that because you know, Ross and I go way back. I believe we were once on like a Yes Network show together, like one or two that I that I was on where I was a fantasy football guy. We were definitely on some NBC Sports Channel shows together, and that network doesn't even exist anymore. And Ross had such a signature time at our friend Matt Casey's wedding that whenever my wife Amica hears his voice doing a game on TV, she's like, oh, I recognize that voice.

00:01:56
Speaker 2: I recognize that voice from the wedding. That's awesome.

00:02:00
Speaker 1: And Jordan, I appreciate that you looked happy to see me when we said, jother, it's spend a couple weeks, which is actually the longest I believe we haven't seen each other since you've started here at NFL Daily. But I have to be real with the audience and we're going to get going. I took a vacation this week. I was gone from Friday to Wednesday. We put up some shows that were in the can. So to me, I'm such a news person, I feel weird about it. So we are going to like try to catch up on a little bit of news and then I'm going to hear what we're calling your ideal draft where you go first round, second round, third round, and we're going to do this all in a quick amount of time.

00:02:30
Speaker 2: Let's start. So he says, yeah, we don't have any options.

00:02:33
Speaker 1: Ross literally has to teach like the future great broadcasters of America. And I told Ross this separately, but broadcaster like Ross has always been great and he fills a lot of different roles. But I really love seeing like his development as like a color guy on these big games because I think he is better now. He's just hitting his broadcasting prime right now.

00:02:52
Speaker 3: Well, I'll just say every time they announced that, I'm like getting a bump up at CBS or whatever I'm doing. You always either text me or send a tweet. And I know that you watch every game, So it means a lot when people that I know that actually watch the games appreciate what I do to it. It means more than you know that someone that I know that. It's not like my mom My, mom doesn't.

00:03:13
Speaker 2: Even watch you were so good, Ross, Like.

00:03:16
Speaker 3: Mom, you didn't even watch. You just watched the first thirty seconds when I'm on camera and then he turned to a Lifetime movie. You don't even watch me like Greg at least watches.

00:03:25
Speaker 4: Greg's like parsing your cadence and every breath that you take.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: No I studies these I learned things from Ross and that's the important thing. You can tell. He really does the work.

00:03:34
Speaker 1: And yeah, you should check out the Ross Tucker football program every day Ross Tucker Daily. He was first in the Daily Game, essentially the podcast during the season. Let's talk news, though, let's talk this is just I don't even know if I want to call this news, but it's the most recent thing that I saw pop up, and it was TJ Watches throwing up a peace sign on Instagram. And there's no reporting around it yet, but it does show potentially to me, Ross, I don't even know if you know about this one that like there's something going on there between his contract situation with the Steelers. I would be a little stunned if anything popped up. But if you just took a step back, it actually wouldn't be that crazy to me for the Steelers to entertain the idea of trading TJ.

00:04:13
Speaker 3: Watt.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: But we can't be given that good content, can't we?

00:04:15
Speaker 3: All right, hold on a second, two things. Number one, this is one of the issues when you elect to trade for DK Metcalf and give him that much money, and you're paying a guy that much that's never done anything for your organization. Whereas TJ. Watt, he's been your best player pretty much since day one, and he's done the last year of his deal, and he is seeing what Miles Garrett and these other guys are getting Max Crosby, and he said, wait minute, Miles Garrett had a couple of years left on his deal. Max Crosby had a couple of years left. This is my last year. What about me? So that's someone and Greg, I actually totally agree with you there. It's not going to happen because it's not the Steeler way. But there is a universe where the Steelers recognize they're not really going anywhere unless they have a legitimate quarterback, especially in the AFC, and they trade TJ. Watt for something. I don't know if that's a quarterback or picks or whatever, but they decide we're not even if they get Aaron Rodgers this year, like what's the upside one playoff win? Maybe like they win a playoff game. There is a scenario where people realize, let's not get Rogers, Let's go with Mason Rudolph or a rookie. Let's trade TJ. Watt, and let's try to rebuild this thing from the ground up. It's just not the Steeler away.

00:05:37
Speaker 4: But I think too the duality of these scenarios here, we have to factor in the time. Right the time of this post off season programming is starting for some teams with new coaches, and we'll be starting for other teams very soon. If you are going to say potentially hold out of that programming, that's when you start posting things to your social media accounts making it clear where you stand. There are two scenarios here that I think are very plausible that the Steelers probably are and should be thinking about. If you bring in Rogers, you're like, okay, maybe we adjust TJ. Watt's steal. You play on that twenty twenty five deal, we revisit the conversation after that, because we maybe get one good year out of Rogers at it yet to be determined number. So then once you have that number in your building, you know what you can do with TJ. Watt to sort of say, like, we're going to go all in for this season on the last year of your contract. Revisit it after or as you're saying, which I know is not the steal away, but you don't get Rogers and now you're going to go with a rookie or a Mason Rudolph And now you think, okay, we got a clean house on some of the older players on their defensive side.

00:06:35
Speaker 1: It's not what they do. But he's he's thirty years old, which kind of snuck up on me. There was like a sort of a hipster tape watching group last year that was like, well, if you think about it, like by the numbers and maybe why what you see you could argue that TJ. Watt was the fourth best pass rusher on the Steelers last year.

00:06:53
Speaker 2: That on a personap basis.

00:06:55
Speaker 4: You did argue that Nick KRBCT well it was just like.

00:06:58
Speaker 1: The I am the hipster Nick Herbig, who was awesome, and Alex High Smith, who was awesome, and then obviously Cam Hayward who plays a different position but well.

00:07:07
Speaker 3: Also, by the way, Cam had a contract situation last year and he was vocal about it and he wasn't happy and they ended up getting that done.

00:07:16
Speaker 2: I think they get it done.

00:07:18
Speaker 1: But it is interesting that he is at the point of his career that you could you could get a lot for him. And I don't know, They're an interesting team to watch over draft weekend because we've been talking about how George Pickens I still not totally convinced is on this team in twenty twenty five, and so we will see just just a situation to watch, and it reminds me a little bit of his brother, JJ Watt, who was not above really was sort of an original guy to use social media occasionally to send messages either to teams or just about himself or whatever. And so why not have TJ Watt act like a wide receiver. Jack Jones cut by the Raiders. We're catching up, so, like I said, we haven't done news on the show each so we'll fly through the quick but I just wanted to kind of mention that Jack Jones was cut by the Raiders, who was a starting cornerback for them, and then we did kind of close a circle on the Geno contract, which people made a big deal out of, really wasn't that much better over two years than Sam Darnold. But the main thing is it guaranteed him fifty eight million dollars. He makes forty million in year one, and he's with Pete Carroll and he's with Pete Carroll eighteen guarantees him eighteen million dollars in year tease, So that was a difference between him and the Raiders and what Seattle was going to do. But it is crazy ross like in an era where money and all this stuff. It really sounds like the personal connection between Gino and Pete Carroll is a big reason why they didn't really negotiate much with the Seahawks. He said, Pete Carroll was calling him on a weekly basis. They were talking during last season and like coaching him up and like putting him in a better headspace because he was all messed up about his money and the lack of a contract he was getting from Seattle, and like Pete Carroll was essentially helping out the Seahawks getting his mind right to play better for the Seahawks while he wasn't even the Seahawks coach.

00:08:59
Speaker 3: Are you sure about that? Because when I read that story and when I heard Geno talking about how they talk all the time and Pete Carroll was there for him, Pete Carroll's not happy that the Seahawks moved on from him. Pete Carroll wanted to continue to coach the Seahawks. So I'm picturing Pete Carroll saying that is disrespectful, not knowing, not knowing he was going to go to the Raiders, but saying, how could they treat you like this? You're the reason why they got to the playoffs. They're not. They don't want to guarantee any money in the second year. I wouldn't even negotiate because Gino said that the Seahawks offered a contract and his agent didn't even counter. Yeah, Like he wanted to go, He wanted to leave and go somewhere else.

00:09:43
Speaker 2: He wanted to go to Pete. He wanted to go to Pete Carroll.

00:09:45
Speaker 3: Tired of the year to year right, so at least he feels about secure about his second year with the Raiders, whereas the Seahawks very clearly want to do this one year at a time at quarterback.

00:09:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, my colleague Michael Sean Jugar has a book coming out about the Legion of Era Seattle Seahawks. Very excited about that. But he's outlined some of this to me, whether he was there seeing it firsthand or also just talking to me about it over time. Pete Carroll is the one that had the relationships in the building, not John Schneider. And John Schneider has done some great things as a GM and has done some questionable things, particularly upfront as a GM, but also the players they connect with Pete Carroll. If there are no ties left really for you in that building, from the coaching staff to the front office, and those ties exist somewhere else, absolutely, I can see why this domino effect happens.

00:10:37
Speaker 1: Right, And I mean there are ties with the players, and he rebuilt his career there and he said he enjoyed playing under Mike McDonald. I think just this everything coming together with him having this opportunity with Pete Carroll gives me a new team to root for. Tree McBride got big money since we last like taped the live show. That was like literally as we were walking out the building last time, forty three million dollars guaranteed four years, sixty seventy six million dollars overall. I still remember him as this kind of lost sort of rookie on the all or Nothing series that only I watched. I think that was the last dollar nothing series of the Arizona Cardinal, and he was just like this fish out of water who really wasn't doing anything in his career at that point and now one of the best tight ends in the league. The Jaguars picked up the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker. I thought that was interesting that they did that, but they didn't do it for linebacker Devin Lloyd.

00:11:24
Speaker 3: Give it.

00:11:24
Speaker 1: I just want to test Ross here. What does your Devin Lloyd take see with no preparation? Do you have an opinion about Devin Lloyd?

00:11:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that he's probably been disappointing. I think Trayvon Walker on some level has been I think I think they've both been fine. But there's a reason why the GM's not there anymore that you clearly have people to compare them to, Like they could have taken Aiden Hutchinson and they went Trayvon Walk. I'll I'll say this, Trayvon quietly has been pretty good to lack gotten better and better he's got and which is what the hope was with his physical ability. I think linebacker's tough for the fifth year option because of the number involved, and I think they'd rather take their chance to see. My favorite thing about it is I think the quote was because there's a new GM and head coach in Jacksonville, we want to get to know him better, Like the day after they do the fifth year option for Trayvon Walker, the Devin Lloyd is we want to get to know him. Like, wait, I don't understand, like the new GM and head coach don't need to get to know Trayvon Walker better.

00:12:30
Speaker 1: Also, you only have two more weeks to get to know him before you have to make this fifth It's a nice way of saying we're not going to do it. See that's why if people that were attending the broadcast boot camp should pay attention to Ross what he did right there. I put him on the spot with a tough question number one. He answered it, but then he answered what would have been a better question, which is about Trayvon Walker, a more interesting question, and then he made a point about the linebacker money which is not exactly answering that question, but it's more interesting than anything I asked in the first place.

00:12:58
Speaker 2: And that's why he's a pro.

00:13:00
Speaker 4: Somehow, it still came back to you in the ES.

00:13:02
Speaker 2: Well, they all do.

00:13:04
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a couple of just quick retirements. Toron Armstead retired from the Miami Dolphins. We thought this might be coming. It puts them in a little bit of a tough spot. They are an an organization.

00:13:16
Speaker 4: You know what they are. They don't know what they are.

00:13:18
Speaker 2: What do you think they are?

00:13:19
Speaker 4: I think there are two people on the hot seat entering this season who have to start drafting and identifying talent that could potentially be an escape patch, a backup plan. You have to show Stephen Ross that you have a Plan B this time around if things go haywire with your Plan A, as it has multiple seasons in a row, and you.

00:13:38
Speaker 3: Really can't say anything Stephen Ross because he gets eight pluses across the board from the NFLPA report card, Like, it's not meris career, it's you.

00:13:47
Speaker 1: I always say something if you're a Dolphins fan, which is that the Stephen Ross era has been largely disappointing.

00:13:53
Speaker 3: It's been.

00:13:54
Speaker 1: It's been a lot of seven and nine, seven and tens. Now it hasn't been you know, including any playoff wins. That's pretty disappointed.

00:14:00
Speaker 3: I always have a theory about like the Dolphins and the Chargers, especially when they were in San Diego. Those teams are always like talented but they're oft injured. There's something about being in these incredible weather locations. I don't know what it is, but they always fall short of expectations. They're always talented, but disappointing and oft injured. I don't know San Diego Chargers and Miami Dolphins. Now it's the LA Chargers. They're like the same team to me.

00:14:29
Speaker 2: They that is a great point.

00:14:30
Speaker 1: I do want to give some love to Toronto Armstead, who surprisingly to me, actually didn't make as many like all pro teams as I expected. But that was because of the injuries throughout his career that he couldn't stay on the field. But when he was on the field, you know, one of the best at what he did change that Saints team for a long time and the Dolphins team. You could see very clear ab testing when Armstead was on the field the last handful of years, they were a different offense than when he wasn't. So he's a big guy to replace, but happy trails to him, Happy trails to Julio Jones, who also officially retired your sign.

00:15:02
Speaker 4: I have a great Hulu Jones story. He has changed the way that a lot of young assistants who have come through the Shanahan coaching tree actually coach receivers, like his existence changed the way that they communicate their techniques, the way that they communicate their offensive scripts, their offensive plans, how they install things. Because he was so like cerebrally elite at speaking this language that translated across the entire offense. And so Micha Lafleur told me this story once where he was coaching in Atlanta, and you know, he's trying to explain this offense and like how many yards downfield he wants the receivers to run before they break inward, and he's explaining it in these terms that he had come up with, that he had coached with before, that were like the hard and fast methods that this is how you say it, and this is you don't explain why, and this is what you say. And Julio was sort of in the mix being like not really doing the thing that Mike was saying, very specifically in Mike's own mind, and Mike was like, I'm I have to be wrong here, Like I'm wrong because if this guy, this absolutely elite player who is so gifted and actually could translate any concept to either any side of the ball, to anybody, if he's doing it this way, then I can't be doing it this way. I have to do it a completely different way, and I have to change the way that I speak and the way that I think, and that has a trickle out effect to a lot of other people that were sort of in the orbit of those buildings at the time. And I just think that's fast, like the ripple effect that one person, one player can have, not just in the league's history, but in the way things are taught and explained within the league's history.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: Real quick. I just love that you brought up those two guys. A pet peeve of mine is like, I don't know why Julio did it on something I've never heard of on a Friday afternoon.

00:16:59
Speaker 2: And Toronto Julio Jones, Yeah, and Toronto.

00:17:02
Speaker 3: A Saturday night at a party. We just move on, Like those guys had unbelievable careers, right, you played double digit ears. They both made well over one hundred million dollars. They both went to a bunch of Pro Bowls. Yet the way we are is like, oh okay, and you just move on, right, Like, I am glad even though it's like a week later or whatever it is now, I'm glad that we are giving those guys their due because they deserve.

00:17:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things.

00:17:29
Speaker 1: Julio Jones one of the best wide receivers I've ever seen at his peak, and he had a six year run where he had at least fourteen hundred yards in every one of those seas. They're actually the sixth year he had thirteen hundred and ninety four, led the league and receiving with eighteen hundred and seventy one yards one year, and led the league with sixteen hundred yards another year, like five straight where he's on an All Pro team. He is an all timer. And that catch he made in the Super Bowl to put them in field goal range from Matt Ryan. As great a throw as it was from Matt Ryan, it was an even better catch and it should have been one of the all time moments that any receiver has ever had in a Super Bowl.

00:18:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, then what happened.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: It didn't work out.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: But that's the thing, that's why it sucks being a receiver because it has nothing to do with Julio Jones like he did it. Forget David Tyree. I mean, you couldn't do that again. Julio Jones was all skill like that was the best player at his position, making the biggest play in the biggest of moments, and because the rest of the team couldn't finish it out, like, it doesn't get remembered that way, but it gets remembered by me who he was the man. So I'm glad you pointed that out because I did want to mention that quickly. Just a couple other items, then we're going to take a break. The Chargers sign Trey Lance. Just thought that was interesting. So he's not going to the UFL. I can fix him, yes, but he'll be the third quarterback there behind Taylor Heineke and Justin Herbert Allen Lazard is staying with the Jets on less money. On Thursday, the Colts released Matt Gay, who was the highest paid kicker in the at one point.

00:19:00
Speaker 4: World champion Matt Gay that's absolutely right.

00:19:04
Speaker 1: My daughter's favorite player for a long time. That Gase still drafts.

00:19:08
Speaker 4: Sean McVay never actually knew his name. He just referred to him as jacked kicker.

00:19:12
Speaker 1: That's rude, h And you mentioned it. The off season program has started around the league. Like there are players lifting weights. I get football is back.

00:19:23
Speaker 3: I used to love the off season program. Why because after a couple months back living in my parents' house in Pennsylvania. Okay, and as much as I love that, you know, I'm twenty two to twenty eight, I go back to Pennsylvania. I was ready to get to the city.

00:19:37
Speaker 2: You could afford an apartment though I.

00:19:39
Speaker 3: Could, but nobody stays around, like after those couple months after the season, It's like the facility's a dead zone. Right, So I'd go home. It was great. My mom would make me meals and I'd go out and whatever. Right, So then I'd go back. And first of all, you get like one hundred and eighty bucks a day or whatever it is. I know that sounds like nothing, but when you're in your twenties, I would think about all my buddies were paying fifty bucks to go to Gold's gym. I'm getting one hundred and eighty dollars to do what I have to do anyway, which is work out for lifting for football. And I would go there and have breakfast, I would have lunch. I would pack up whatever lunch I didn't have, I would pack up something else. That would be my dinner. So three delicious, three delicious healthy meals getting for that.

00:20:29
Speaker 2: I remember you were with the Cardinals and they would yes, I remember.

00:20:35
Speaker 3: So, Greg, You guys appreciate this real quick. When I resigned with New England one year deal two thousand and six, Okay, my wife and I had just gotten married, so we're both like twenty six. So she moves up. They have some apartment complex and Cumberland, Rhode Island. So my wife, who's very much a working woman, for that year, she says she was a real housewife of Cumberlin, Rhode Island. Right, all you do is lyft weight, It's Mondays, your Thursday, that's it every week. And Cape Cod Martha's Vineyard. Hell, yeah, Nantucket, Newport. We're like, we're both in Pennsylvania. We're like we're never living here again. It was unbelievable, like it was. It was like the whole off season. It was one of the greatest six months. Stretches of money, Lift Weights, Money to Thursday and then have incredible weekends. We're on Martha's vineyard. My sister had just had my niece Caroline. We're singing Sweet Caroline karaoke. The place is going crazy. We had no idea that was the Red Sox theme song. My wife and I so we're looking at each other like we are awesome. He love us, We're the greatest thing. We had no idea it's the Red Sox like seventh Inning stretch song or something.

00:21:42
Speaker 4: I wonder if Ross ever voyage to your restaurant where you the.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: Cea shanty where I was a waiter and did in Martha's Vineyards from like two thousands.

00:21:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:21:55
Speaker 1: I don't like to repeat that story too often here, but I yes, I did catch myself like staring out into the boats on the water, and then another waiter was like, dude, you've been staring at for like thirty seconds.

00:22:09
Speaker 4: Maybe during that time Ross came in and ate and then.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: Last you brought fire.

00:22:12
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: I was a little bit before Ross was there. I'm a little I'm a little older than Ross's and it was a choice. Ross, by the way, for you to still be living at your parents. I don't cast any aspersions on it, but you didn't have to do that.

00:22:25
Speaker 3: No, So when I was twenty two with the Redskins Washington Now, the week after the season ended, I went into lift weights. I thought it was like college. The lights were too off, no coaches were there. I didn't I didn't know that you didn't stay. Nobody told me that you leave until the off season program starts. I couldn't even get anybody who spot me. I was like, Okay, I guess I'm going back to Pennsylvania because I still had the apartment in Virginia. But what am I going to do by myself there?

00:22:57
Speaker 2: I know it's absolutely fair. I don't really know what what that's like. Lifting weights went.

00:23:01
Speaker 1: And hell they're doing they're doing meetings and stuff now too.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: So we got Ben Johnson in the room with Caleb Williams. They're doing meetings. All right, we're gonna take a quick break.

00:23:09
Speaker 1: We're gonna come back, and we're gonna do a little exercise to find out some of Ross and Jordan's favorite players.

00:23:15
Speaker 2: Right after this.

00:23:23
Speaker 1: All right back on NFL Daily here with a wild tandem, Ross Tucker, Jordan Rod works.

00:23:30
Speaker 2: It absolutely works.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite things about doing this show is just seeing the different combinations and bringing together smart football people. And that's why I had an exercise that I gave you two, which is that we're gonna do an ideal draft. So it's it's a mock draft. It's really Jordan's idea. And I can see the look that she's giving me now.

00:23:52
Speaker 4: Just was trying to, like, say, the idea that Greg opted out of.

00:23:55
Speaker 2: I am opting out of this.

00:23:57
Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't feel like I had good interest and I and there's not a lot of time here, and so I thought I would just listen to you guys.

00:24:04
Speaker 2: You explain it.

00:24:05
Speaker 4: Then, Yeah, this is an ideal draft for a team about whom you can describe the circumstances within which they enter the draft.

00:24:14
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I found Greig had told me it was a generic team.

00:24:18
Speaker 2: It could be just generic.

00:24:19
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, Okay, that's what I did. I did a generic, a generic, anonymous team. I just put a couple of different parameters around it because I wanted to highlight the people that I most like. Yes, yeah, so truly a selfish extra. Okay, so I'm learning very well from you, honestly. But yes, and so we only wanted to go rounds one through three. Yeah, so why don't we kick it off with you Ross?

00:24:42
Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, I'm going cam Ward ab Dual Carter, Travis Hunter. It's the best. Now, I was like that, people are shocked.

00:24:53
Speaker 4: Lost the threat of communications.

00:24:54
Speaker 3: People were shocked at ab Dul Carter was still there in my mock draft.

00:24:59
Speaker 1: And now it is tricky. You have to like think where am I drafting round two round for you? But just somewhat realist.

00:25:04
Speaker 3: All right, So what I will say is the two guys that jumped out to me in the first round that I couldn't possibly be higher on, and I know they already get talked about a lot, right, I still don't think we talk about Travis Hunter as much as we should, thank you. Okay, you know I had Fran Duffy, who you know, Greg? He came on one of my shows this week, the Rosstucker Podcast. He in his database evaluated two different players, Travis Hunter offensive player, Travis Hunter defensive player. Both of them were among his top five prospects. If he was two different human beings. Okay, Todd McShay, who came on Rosstucker Podcast this week, has him as the number one receiver, number one corner. I just can't emphasize enough how nuts that is. Okay, I did Colorado. I called Colorado Colorado State this past year.

00:26:03
Speaker 4: Fun game it was.

00:26:05
Speaker 3: And you know, going to Boulder for his practice. You ever see like a center fielder that when there's like a line driver a fly ball, just the way, the graceful way that they make the catch, or like an NBA player that like when they get to the rim for a layup or a finger roll, It just it just looks beautiful floats. He might have done that four or five times in one practice where he's like double covered and jumps earlier than the two dbs or jump. I just thought this guy's unbelievable. I do think he'll play both ways in the NFL. I think he has to be in every defensive back meeting. I would say, after offensive line, communication is the second most important in the secondary. You have to be in those meetings, right he had, so he'd be a full time corner now. Because it's interesting because I've heard people say, well, if the Browns take him, maybe he'd be they need him at receiver, or if the Patriots take him, they need him at receiver. That's really interesting because then you can't really put him on defense, but people think that he might be more ready to contribute offense. My point is, I know he gets talked about a lot. I know I won the Heisman. The guy was playing like one hundred and sixty snaps a game. The guy can't possibly be in every meeting. I don't even we've never seen this before or even close to it. I would say I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I live right near Penn State. I think Abdul Carter's fantastic. In my mind, you cannot take Abdul Carter over Travis Hunter. You cannot. You cannot do it because of his ability to affect both sides of the ball.

00:27:47
Speaker 1: It's I've never believed that he was somehow going to get the four at the Patriots.

00:27:51
Speaker 2: It's just no way. Just was never.

00:27:53
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a two person draft at that level, and cam Ward is thrown in there because he's the core, so they're picking forth in like a three person draft essentially, But just never make any sense that he would fall past multiple teams, and I still wouldn't be surprised if the Browns took him at too.

00:28:09
Speaker 4: My biggest fear for Travis Hunter has nothing to do with the caliber quality of a prospector player. He is, by the way, also half of those games at altitude, which also people don't talk about conditioning all of those snaps, and that's hard. The air is quite thin.

00:28:25
Speaker 3: I never thought of that. I'm gonna steal that from now on.

00:28:27
Speaker 4: Yours.

00:28:28
Speaker 2: It's yours.

00:28:29
Speaker 4: But my biggest concern is that an NFL team, particularly the ones that frequently pick in the top ten, top twelve of the draft, that team, I worry, will fail Travis Hunter because they will not have designed the appropriate and correct infrastructure internally where he's going to spend his time and meetings, how he's going to onboard twice as much information in half the time so that he can go out and execute and play on the same cadence and schedule as everybody else. I worry about the organizational like clarity and infrastructure for a player of his quality and caliber. I want him. I don't want him to drop. I just selfishly want to see him go to a place that's got it, stuff together it.

00:29:14
Speaker 1: It needs to be with an organization that has a multi year plan. So you're talking about and I've heard this a lot, and it makes sense, like the amount of meeting time that he is going to need to truly master either position, but especially for cornerbacking.

00:29:26
Speaker 4: About how you teach it in a different way, I'm not saying go and set.

00:29:29
Speaker 1: It also could be like here's our plan for year one. We're going to have you focus on getting better and better at this and you have the meeting. Year two, you're not going to have all that experience, and you're going to have a longer offseason because you're not preparing for the draft to okay, and then we're going to add this part to your game into year two and like and convince him and have a multi and that can only happen with an organization that has stability.

00:29:50
Speaker 3: And to Jordan's point, whether it's the Browns at two or the Giants at three, they don't care at all about twenty twenty six. I can assure you those guys need to win in twenty twenty f So Honorable mentioned My other first round guy would have been Tyler Warren from Penn State. I watched his high school video because I was doing some Penn State media at the time, to watch him at quarterback and then they would like get near the red zone, they'd put the backup quarterback in. They would put Tyler at receiver and throw them fade balls like he wears Umber forty four because his dad told him too, because of John Riggins, Like I couldn't love Tyler Warren Moore like you had me at John Riggins, you know what I mean. Okay, So it was my first round pick. The two guys on in the second round, believe it or not, DB's okay. Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame. I've had multiple people tell me he's the best corner they've ever seen it. Nerdame best corner at least in the last twenty five years. Nor Dame got hurt this past year. Now he hasn't even worked out. He's you know, work out like two days before the draft because of the injury. But if you can get a guy mid second round that people thought was a first pick and is the best corner nerd name in twenty five years, that says something to me. The other guy I liked there would be the safety out of Texas Andrew mccooba. I'm a huge fan of guys that a take the ball away like he did not do it, Clem, somebody did do a Texas. But also the safety nickel versatility, think Gardner Johnson. I've seen that first hand in Philly, the value of having a guy that has corner like Nickel, corner like skills but can play safety. So those are my two second round guys. In the third round, I like two Jacks. Okay, okay. The first guy, Jack Besh, the receiver. I'm calling this right now. Okay, Jack Besh, First of all, we all know his older brother, Tiger Princeton football player like me, passed away tragically. I'm calling my shot right now. The La Rams, Jordan rod Rieg's La Ram are drafting Jack Besh and he's gonna win the third Annual Cooper Cup. Puka Nikoua, how did he fall to the third round and how did Sean McVeigh get him? I watch him and I'm like, this guy is gonna be like Poka ni cool, like he's gonna go to the Rams.

00:32:17
Speaker 1: I don't understand why he's gonna fall that far. And you're right that that is sort of where he's getting pre third round and I think the more people watch him, the takeaway from the tape is all what you said, and that's it's typical of this draft. And that's why I think you can credibly say that's your ideal third round pick, because he's a believable third round pick, because that's where the strength of this receiver class is that there's so many that some of them aren't gonna get taken in the top fifty to fifty five picks even though it seems like they deserve it. So that might push the first round wide receivers down because teams are just gonna wait until round two three.

00:32:52
Speaker 3: The other Jacks are the other Jack is just Jack Sawyer. Those guys make it in the NFL. And I know the Sam Hubbard thing has gone a million times. He reminds you of Sam Howard, but he does like guys like that, He's going to find a way to be an above average starter in the NFL.

00:33:09
Speaker 1: Jack Sawyer a lot of disagreement on those. There are some people that watch Jack Sawyer statement just say that is not an NFL player. That is like a that is a late Day three undrafted type of pick that's getting this.

00:33:22
Speaker 4: It's his ideal college, it's his ideal pick.

00:33:24
Speaker 2: I'm just so interested on that out there.

00:33:25
Speaker 3: He was like a top five high school project.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, all right, Well two years we have to run out here.

00:33:30
Speaker 4: We've got to let Ross go, I think. But I want to make sure to rip through mine too. So mine was for a team with a late career veteran quarterback on the roster. Wow, who could that be? Picking outside of the top ten Round one Matthew Golden from Texas. He has been in a couple of different schemes which I like. He also knows how to He's like the perfect player to exploit horizontal and vertical space on the field because he's used as a motion player. He often was the Z but he can do a lot of different things on the perimeter as well. And I know the knock on him is his size, but I think speed helps with size deficiencies in some ways. I think if you are looking at potentially replacing your quarterback in the next couple of years, which the team I'm talking about is, then you want to make sure that you're maximizing the veteran years of that quarterback while also building a foundation for the younger player. So round two, I've got Tyler Schuck from I think he's a really gifted.

00:34:27
Speaker 3: Quote unquote younger player.

00:34:30
Speaker 4: Well, so I don't care about the old thing.

00:34:32
Speaker 2: That's the thing.

00:34:33
Speaker 4: That's the thing. I wrote this out so like, and I was thinking about this. I was getting really fired up when I was doing my notes on this, probably because I've spent too much time with the RAM scouting department, because they do not care about old players or short arms. So he throws well on the move, and I know he could be twenty six or twenty seven by the time he starts. I don't care he I like he's seen a ton of football. I like that he's only started, you know, eight or less games until the final year of his college career, which is not the same type of wear and tear on the body.

00:35:04
Speaker 2: That acordad right, because he's always hurt.

00:35:06
Speaker 4: Playing a ton of a ton of time. I think if you can get the medicals cleared and you can, you have a player who's not going to take the type of abuse that we sometimes do get worried about with with older prospects. Like, I think that that's a fit. I like that he's seen stuff. I like that he understands multiple schemes and multiple things, and so I think that the right team with a two year plan, maybe with their current starter, is going to gravitate toward him. And for that reason, also if you're looking at a long term replacement, one of my draft crushes is in the third round Boston College offensive tackle Ozzie Trapilo. Oh. He's a gap scheme guy and his own scheme guy. He's a fit, he's a starter. He also is super disciplined. No penalties in his three years as a starter. I know you gotta love that. I feel like you've got and he's on the right right tackle.

00:35:54
Speaker 3: You know what that reminds me of. That's like someone that has a four point zero gpm, like you might have been studying a little bit too much, Like do you really want a four point zero gpa and college? Do you really want to never have one penalty? Give me one unnecessary run, like.

00:36:05
Speaker 1: If anything, not getting enough fouls and like a youth basketball game, you're doing it wrong.

00:36:09
Speaker 4: That's why you got to get him and sit him as a swing guy behind somebody who's already playing, and you got to make him mean a little bit meaner.

00:36:16
Speaker 1: You gotta a little bit, a little bit, I'm feeling mean right now because we got to end this thing.

00:36:19
Speaker 2: Ross has gotta go. We gotta get out of here. That's it for this show.

00:36:23
Speaker 1: I loved having you guys in and I love the the intensity with which happened with just having a deadline on here.

00:36:30
Speaker 2: But they're saying, like, we gotta.

00:36:31
Speaker 1: Get the important part people, Let's do it. That was it for today's show. Just a little extra for you. We will be back on Monday. We're going to be talking defensive draft prospects with Ali Connelly. I think he likes some of the same guys that Ross does, including the Macouba. And yes, when teams are back in the building lifting weights again, I believe that's the original football is back.