#57 The Budget Motel

A word of warning that today's episode contains descriptions of violence. 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:06.000 Please take care when listening. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:11.520 Hi, how are you doing good? 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:13.760 I left you like four or five messages? 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.520 Busy day, busy day. 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:18.599 Do you remember on the Dukes of Hazzard there was 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.280 the sheriff. Do you remember what his name was? Roscoe P. Coltrane. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:22.840 Oh? 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.639 I remember it was Roscoe. Do you remember what the 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:25.439 peace stood for? 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:26.400 No? 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.920 Was it Philip? Oh? My god, no, she's not. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.199 How do you know I was lying? How did you 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:38.080 know why I was lying? 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:39.920 You sounded too loving. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:52.839 I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is heavyweight today's episode the 0:00:52.880 --> 0:01:09.960 Budget Motel. Right after the break, Nick tells me he 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.119 doesn't consider himself to be a writer. He works as 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.720 a landscaper, but several years ago he felt compelled to 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.360 write about an event that derailed his life. The story's 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:27.039 title What It's Like to Be Shot. Thirty years ago, 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.800 Nick was shot in the stomach by a coworker, a 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.679 guy named Andy. Nick was twenty one years old, and 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.600 ever since that day he's continued to tell versions of 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.679 what happened. In his twenties, it was a good story 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:40.600 to tell in a bar. 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.800 Packaged in a way to impress girls. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.160 In his thirties, it became a kind of flex, something 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.960 to give him that tough guy quality he lacked compared 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.000 to the hunters and brawlers he grew up with in Idaho. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.280 In his forties, he honed the story to the written version. 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.680 I like Nick's writing so much, asked him if he'd 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.040 read the story aloud. 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.280 To me, Would you mind reading it? 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.840 You want me to just start from the beginning, could you? Yeah? 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.080 It all begins with Nick and his coworker Andy and Burley, Idaho. 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.840 They were there for an out of town irrigation contract. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.720 Andy was originally from Burley, and so we invited some 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.160 high school friends over to drink beer in the room 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.560 he and Nick were sharing at the budget motel. I'll 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:24.760 let Nick take it from here. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.160 The guys had brought in a nine millimeter automatic for 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.880 show and tell. I wouldn't have been surprised if it 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.920 was in fact stolen or purchased illegally. I wasn't particularly 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.920 curious about the weapon, having had my share of firearms 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.400 fund growing up in Pocatel. We littered the sagebrush hills 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.760 with spent casings. I remember sitting on the edge of 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.400 the motel bed across Andy. Andy's eyes were on the gun, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.560 but not downrange. I was downrange. Andy dropped the magazine, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.680 charged the slider. It's cool to charge a handgun. It 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.400 makes a cool sound and it feels good, and about 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.400 to dry fire, but had not checked the chamber. I 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.480 leaned to the left, about to say, dude, don't point 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:15.160 that thing at me. Dude, damn. My first thought was, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.480 damn it. We were so fired. The gun has gone 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.480 off in our room. I looked down toward my lap 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.640 and noticed the whistle of smoke coming from the torn 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.240 hole in the belt line of my pants. I reached 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.280 around with my left hand and felt a wet spot 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.600 in the small on my back. Holy fucking shit, I've 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.680 just been shot in and out right fucking through me. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.960 Holy shit. Noting the proximity of the wet spot to 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.840 my spine, I quickly stood up to see if my 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.680 legs worked. They did, and he rushed the gun over 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.480 to Israel, who had brought it. Say you did it, man. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.680 Israel quickly took a knee in front of me, trying 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.400 to get me to hold the weapon. Dude, say you 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.800 shot yourself. Fucking Call nine one. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:56.200 One. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.480 The police report, written by one of what Burly considered 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.440 their finest, says that I reported the wound accidentally self 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.520 inflicted upon his arrival. I remember saying I've been shot. 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.240 It was an accident, as the cop casually strolled in 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.360 with a stupid board look on his face. A lot 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.760 of the actual agony is beyond memory. I can remember 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.800 what the pain led me to think, Okay, if this 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.839 is the end, let's get it over already. Bring on 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.360 the dark fade or the bright light. There was no 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:35.159 fear of death, only the impatient anticipation of relief. I 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.839 was bawling and blubbering, like a toddler that had fallen 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.279 off a swing. Every story I'd read of soldiers slowly 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.159 dying on battlefields crying out for their mothers made sense. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.480 There is a very real need for mommy that supersedes 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:55.159 any macho imprinting. At this level of helplessness, my pleas 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.400 for morphine were denied. Instead, I was impaled with a 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.520 catheter in my urethra and an NG tube into my 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.680 nose and down my throat. Somewhere I found in myself 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.279 a cooperative attitude toward these brutes. I even reported the 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.560 fact I was wearing contact lenses. As they rubbed the 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.760 orange gue on my belly and shaved my pubic hair. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.520 They plucked out the lenses before I got wheeled into 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:21.400 the or. Everything suddenly got calmer there. My only company 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.880 was a gentle voice man who said, I'm doctor Lowell Feinstein. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:35.000 I'll be your nfcesiologist. Just breathe into this. The nurses 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.119 in ICU took an icy tone with me. They weren't 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.480 going to mommy, some young man and with gunshot wounds 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.320 who probably had a coming. I did get a sarcastic ah, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.920 poor baby when I cried during my first wound. A breadment. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.320 That was the daily routine of stuffing ribbons of cotton 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.120 gauze into the boltholes with a long swab. Twice a day. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.000 They'd pull out the gauze along with all the dead 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.120 tissue dried to it, then stuff new gauze in and 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.360 I got used to it and it became less painful. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.800 As with most gross things about your body, you eventually 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.039 come to enjoy it, kind of like picking your nose. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.960 The first visitor was a blurry image, not because of 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.440 the meds, but because of the earlier foolishness of having 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.360 my contacts removed before surgery. It's my dad who is here. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.599 I make a crack to bring levity to the ICU, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.200 something quick from a Western Maybe they got me pa. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:33.120 There are only tears, and here with his father's tears. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.200 Is how Nick has always ended the story, a cut 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.000 down hero being wept over by his dad. But now 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.680 that he's in his fifties, Nick doesn't see himself as 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.320 the hero of this story at all. Instead, he sees 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.599 someone else as the true hero of that day. It's 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.799 not Andy or his friend Israel. They mostly seemed concerned 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.120 with not getting in trouble, and I didn't hear a 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.800 word from them since that day. You know, there was 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.000 no visit in the hospital. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.120 No, if I had accidentally shot somebody, I would have 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.880 been beside myself with apology and just begging forgiveness. But 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.560 I didn't hear a thing from those guys. I didn't 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.000 hear a thing from those guys either. I reached out 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.120 to both Andy and Israel to get their version of 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.680 the story, but never heard back. The cops were indifferent, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.800 the hospital workers coldly efficient. Nick felt alone and angry 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.720 he'd been blamed for his own injury and then abandoned. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.520 No one actually cared about what he was going through 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:34.320 at all, with the exception of one person, a friend 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.440 of Andy's whose name Nick never even caught, but who 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.200 he refers to as the kid. I didn't know this kid. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.280 He was just in the periphery of everybody that was 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.480 hanging out. So all of a sudden, I'm shot. I 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.840 can just see this kid's face and he's crying, and 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.200 he's looking down at me, and he's asking if there's 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.720 anything he can do, like get me a towel or something. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.640 The looks on other people's faces was one of detachment 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.640 and coal, like they were looking at a squirrel hitting 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.280 the road or something. And he was the one that 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:10.400 you could just tell he was legitimately scared, not about 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:11.680 getting in trouble, but for me. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.080 And you're able to in that moment, you were able 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:21.280 to read all of that. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.080 Yeah, oh yeah, I don't know. I think everything slows 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.800 down to where, you know, some things are sparkling clear. Yeah, 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.079 Like if you've ever been in a car accident or whatever, 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.679 everything seems to go in slow motion. And I just 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:44.120 that's the thing that still sticks with me, is somebody 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:46.480 you know, just as scared as I was. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.839 A kind look a towel, not exactly Superman level of heroism, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.240 but Nick consists that because the gestures came at one 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.000 of the scariest moments of his life, and because everyone 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.600 else was offering nothing, this is something, even though it 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.200 was a small something, felt like a lot. 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:10.640 And so in that moment, him and I were not strangers. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.920 It's a feeling like I don't want to die alone, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.720 and here's one person that's not a stranger. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.960 And so thirty years later, what Nick wants is to 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.400 find that kid, that sympathetic kid who cried and offered 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.920 him a towel, and simply thank him. But where the 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.080 search takes us is somewhere neither Nick nor I could 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:38.280 have anticipated. So we're going to do it. Okay, wow, yeah, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:39.920 we're going to try to find this kid. I think 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:59.640 after the break, we try to find this kid. I think, Hello, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.720 do you hear me? I can now more importantly, can 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:03.199 you see me? 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:04.800 I can't see you? 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.840 Okay, it's not more important. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.800 Really, I asked Nick to check in over video because 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.400 I have some news. In order to get the name 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.960 of the sympathetic kid, I contacted the Sheriff's Department and 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.560 got the police report from the day Nick was shot. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.480 Oh wow, yeah, so I wanted to share it with you. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.760 Nick's not seen the report since the shooting happened thirty 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.199 years ago. I send it over and once again, Nick 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.000 reads an account of the day, but this time from 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.720 the perspective of the police officer on duty. 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.040 On the above date, I was sent to the Budget 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.000 motel room for thirty seven in reference to a subject 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.240 being shot in the stomach. I asked Nick what had happened. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.280 He stated that he has shot himself while looking at 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:44.760 a gun. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.520 When the cops interrogated Andy, he also blamed Nick, who, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:49.760 when pressed, came clean. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.400 He stated that he didn't intend for it to go on. 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.080 Then there are the accounts of everyone else who'd been 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.720 in the room that day. There's Andy's friend Israel. 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.719 Israel heard Andy klick the gun, wasn't sure what had happened. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.280 And two other guys, someone named Jason he then. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.480 Saw the gun in Andy's hand with an expression like 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:07.760 he didn't expect. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.280 It to go off, and someone named Jared. 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:11.760 He told me that Nick had a very surprised look 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.880 on his face and that no one really knew what 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:20.600 had happened. We feel with the information that we received 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.680 that there was no intention on hurting anyone and that 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.960 the shooting was an accidental shooting. The subjects were released 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:34.440 after obtaining statements. Well, Nick had a very surprised look 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.800 on his face. Sure, I did. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.920 The names Jason and Jared are both unfamiliar to Nick, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.680 so to our search for the sympathetic kid. 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:52.240 It's got to be one of those two guys. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.320 So what's going on? 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.840 Well, the following week, Nick and I talk again. This 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.600 time though Nick has reached out to me because he 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:01.679 has some news to share. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.880 It's been five days or whatever since I contacted Jared. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.320 After I sent Nick the police report, he spent the 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.280 rest of the day obsessing he was so close to 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.960 finding the person he'd thought about for so long that 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.920 he decided to take matters into his own hands and 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.880 do some digging. Well, Jason's last name was incredibly common, 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.400 Jared's last name was unique, So Nick typed it into 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.440 Facebook and it Jared popped up who was living in 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:30.800 that same part of Idaho. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.240 And it looks like he's got a teenage son that 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.160 looks exactly like my memory of what he looked like 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.840 I sent him this very generic message to throw the 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:53.199 line out there, like I was trying to net a butterfly. Hi, Jared, 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.080 you may not know me at all. That I'm trying 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.400 to find someone with your name that lived in Barely 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.040 back in nineteen ninety three, might be someone who showed 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.200 me a great deal of kindness during an accident that 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:04.319 happened at the budget. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.320 Jared's profile didn't seem all that active, so Nick tried 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.560 sending a message to his wife as well, and she responded. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.560 She says, oh, wow, I think he's told me that story. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.400 I'll let him know and tell him to message. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.000 You, And a couple days later, Jared did. 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.920 Yeah, it's me. I have a lot of memories of 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.960 that day, not all good. Then I say, me too, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.839 I know this is a lot to hit you with 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.600 out of the blue. I think you were the one 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.440 most worried about me. You asked if I needed a tell? 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.520 Was that you? And he responds yes, I remember getting 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.800 a towel for your back, making sure the exit wind 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.480 was clean. I remember staying there till the EMT's got there. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.040 It's like it happened yesterday. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:49.040 Wow. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.160 And then I said I've been waiting three decades to 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.320 thank you for that and the chaos. Your kindness remains 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.520 with me. You don't know what people are made of 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.480 until something like that happens. You are a good soul, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.679 and he says, thank you. But even though where it 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.680 shit happens, a life is a life, your kind words 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:10.680 mean a lot. I did have some flashbacks to that day. Honestly, 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.480 I didn't remember your name because that chaos started thirty 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:23.240 seconds after I met you. I can still see the 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.880 fear in your eyes. I only did what I hope 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.520 someone would do for me. Then I said, I'm glad 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.920 to be alive. I'm now fifty one. Jared says, I'm 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.040 glad you are doing good. I will message you tomorrow. 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.640 Just got off work and doing the dinner thing. Thank 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.080 you for your kind words. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.360 But the next day, when Nick raised the prospect of 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.480 actually speaking on the phone, Jared stopped answering. Eventually, Nick 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.160 got another message from Jared's wife, Good morning, Nick. Jared 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.720 knows it was a terrible experience for you and has 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.320 no doubt you went through hell as a result, but 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.320 it was traumatic for him as well. Over the last 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.520 thirty years, he's dealt with it in his own way, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.640 and he wants it to remain in his past. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:06.840 Again. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.160 Thank you for your kindness and for thanking him after 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.960 all these years. On the one hand, Nick is glad 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.040 to have finally found Jared and been able to thank him, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.440 But on the other hand, he's a little disappointed their 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.440 exchange was so brief. Whatever Nick was looking for, it 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:31.920 seems like he hasn't found it, and for the next 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.560 couple months that's where it sits. But all the while, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.080 as it turns out, just as Nick had been wanting 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.040 to speak with Jared, there's been someone badly wanting to 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.440 speak with him, someone who's always hovered just outside the 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.200 story's frame. Her name doesn't appear in Nick's written account, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.080 nor does it show up in the police report this, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.960 although she was present at the time of the shooting, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.480 if only as a voice on the other end of 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:57.240 a phone line. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.520 The phone rang and someone answers, and what I hear? 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.280 As I hear A good shot. 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.920 At the time Nick was shot, he had a girlfriend, Maggie. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.320 Nickott suggested I reach out to Maggie as a way 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.240 of getting more background on that time, but over the 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.960 course of talking with Maggie, it became clear that she 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:35.280 had more to offer than just background. Nick Att first 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.400 met Maggie back when she was thirteen and he was fifteen. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.720 He noticed her at a friend's house, a spiky haired 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.000 punk girl hunched over a Wiji board trying to summon 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.320 the spirit of Nancy Spongeen. Maggie thought Nick was funny 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.480 and a quote champion grade dork. The two became friends, 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.920 and several years later, when Maggie was nineteen, she and 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.400 Nick started dating. To save money, they moved in together. 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.560 It wasn't long after that that Nick set off on 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:10.600 his ill fated trip to Burley. On the evening of 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.160 June third, nineteen ninety three, Maggie picked up the phone 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.760 and called Nick at his room in the Budget motel, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.879 and she happened to call at the exact moment the 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:20.800 shot was fired. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.920 The phone rang and someone answers, and I say, is Nick? 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.239 There is Nick available? And what I hear before this 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.679 person responds, is I hear, Oh my god, I've been shot. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.400 Call nine one one. I've been shot. Like by moments 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.840 I missed the you know the capal so in my 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.240 mind's I I have no context for this. It doesn't 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.880 occur to me that someone in the room has actually 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.000 been shot. I thought, well, maybe someone in the room 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.920 was like recounting that, you know, like a cop show 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.240 that something like that, and they just said, like, na, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.160 he can't come to the phone right now. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.760 Not only was Maggie there sort of at the budget motel, 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.600 but she was also there beyond the point where Nick 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.600 ends his story. She was there for his long recovery 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.920 process in the months afterwards. Yes, and so you ended 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.920 up kind of becoming the de facto caregiver. 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:14.760 Yes, that's correct. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.040 I mean you were just nineteen. That's a lot to 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:17.439 take on. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.960 Yeah, that was a really it was a tumultuous It 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.240 was a challenging time, and I Nick had a lot 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:32.000 of emotions. He was really really fucking angry and depressed. 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.359 He took a lot of it out on me and 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:43.080 was not very kind to me at all at all. 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.960 So, while Nick was dealing with the trauma of being shot, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.200 Maggie was dealing with the trauma of dealing with Nick. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.679 She was the one to stand by him in the 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.879 months to come. If anyone was truly sympathetic, truly a 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.320 good soul, he was Maggie Maggie and Nick broke not 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.320 long after the accident, but they've remained friends for all 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.320 these years. Even so, over the last three decades, they've 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.879 never talked about that time. Nick says it's easier not to. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.600 He wasn't the best version of himself. That makes a 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.600 conversation with Maggie a harder one to have than the 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:20.560 one with Jared, but it potentially makes it a more 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.400 valuable conversation too. And Maggie says there's a lot she's 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.120 never said to Nick, that she's now finally ready to. 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:35.440 Say, hello, my old friend, come on in. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.080 And so we all meet up one summer afternoon at 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:40.159 Maggie's townhouse. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.160 How are you feeling? 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.800 We head upstairs to Maggie's living room. Her place feels 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.560 cozy and inviting. The walls are full of art. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:54.760 So I'm gonna I'm gonna pour myself a glass of 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:55.840 wine because I'm nervous. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.400 Good for you, So, Nick, do you want to be beer? 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.159 I was like fantasizing that you would ask me. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.560 That Maggie and Nick sit beside each other on the couch, 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.480 and Maggie begins the story of that day from her perspective. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.320 What I remember was that I called. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.400 When Maggie called the Budget motel that day, she heard 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.040 the chaos in the background, Maggie, but it wasn't until 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.520 later that night that she understood what had happened. Nick's 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.760 boss called to tell her that Nick was in surgery 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.399 for a gunshot wound. I remember Maggie got in the 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.679 car to drive the several hours to see him in 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:29.320 the hospital. 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.080 There was thunder and lightning, storms raging, and the windshield 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.280 wipers and the visibility was terrible, and I was blasting 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:42.359 social distortion. It's the high planes in Idaho, you know, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.320 So it's like that sage brushy and not knowing. I 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.240 remember driving not knowing if you were going to be 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:49.640 alive or dead when I got there. 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.440 In the immediate aftermath, there was a rush of family 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.080 that arrived to visit Nick in the hospital. Receded into 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:02.400 the background. 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.199 In a way. It was like everyone shows up, you know, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.840 like while there's all of this fanfare, and then the 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.280 day to day, everyone fucking dissipates. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.320 And that's what we're here to talk about the time 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.320 after everyone else had dissipated and it was just Nick 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.360 and Maggie. 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.240 For a while. Nick was unable to leave the house. 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.919 His dad was a pretty big stoner, and so he 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.399 gifted Nick a huge bag of weed to help in 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:26.080 his recovery. 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.280 Every morning androlla dooby and watch the cartoon version of 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.720 Beetlejuice or whatever, and the rest of the day just 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.400 kind of had a nice float to it. It was helpful, 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.600 but I also think I was kind of going stir crazy. 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.800 As a part of his recovery, Nick was forced to 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.400 wear a colostomy bag, an inflatable sack attached to his stomach. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.879 It was uncomfortable and cumbersome and made him feel old 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.119 before his time. Nick had to lean on Maggie for help. 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.840 I apologize for that, for having a cost to me. Yeah, 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.800 like the cost to me was secondary. On the one hand, yacht, 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.359 it was really hard to wake up covered and shit sometimes. 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.480 But like also what made it hard is then that 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.879 you would be really mad. I'm trying to manage your anger. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:14.680 I'm trying to get me cleaned up. I've got to 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.080 get to like I start at seven am. 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.040 It turns out that at the time, Maggie was in 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.119 nursing school, so aside from the full time job of 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.919 taking care of Nick, she also had an internship at 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.960 the hospital and was taking an overwhelming course load. 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:30.399 It was a lot. 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.119 Thanks for taking care of me. I'm sorry it sucked 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:34.560 so man. 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.679 Although Nick says the words he's supposed to, thank you, 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.280 I'm sorry, he still doesn't fully understand what he's saying, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.520 thank you and sorry for so. Maggie tries to tell. 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.720 Him it was really shitty. You were really awful to me. 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:52.920 I believe that. 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.680 I'm feeling a lot of emotion. That was hard, dear. 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.080 I was, you know, in awe of you for being 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:08.760 so focused and driven and organized, and also sort of 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.439 felt like this person is sort of out of my 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.600 leg because you were just I couldn't really. 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:15.960 You were mad at me about it. 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:21.000 Yeah, that's probably true. 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.159 Maggie sits with her legs tucked up on the couch, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.200 looking right at Nick Nick stairs ahead at the wall. 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:28.560 You know, like you were smoking weed in that back 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.919 room all day, watching TV, and you like you wouldn't 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:34.040 even open the blinds. You'd sit there in the dark 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.480 like it'd be you know, like sunny. We weren't compatible, 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:47.280 but we were stuck. You were sick. You were so 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:51.159 fucking depressed and angry at the world. 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:54.800 Nick was angry at Andy and Israel for abandoning him. 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.480 He was angry at himself for taking the blame with 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.680 the Cobs. He was angry that he was in this 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.439 city situation at all, bedridden and confronting his mortality at 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.560 twenty one. He directed all of that at Maggie. 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:11.880 I wasn't such a great person as far as I think. 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:13.359 There was a lot of rage. 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:18.400 Yeah, do you remember what you would say? 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:22.760 I don't remember the exact things I would say, but 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:26.879 I can just kind of imagine being in blind rage 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:28.359 and just saying awful shit. 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:34.879 I feel really self conscious even saying it like out loud. Yeah, 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:37.720 sometimes you would talk A would say how you fantasized 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:43.119 killing me? Really, I remember what. I don't remember if 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:47.359 it was your birthday or if there was something something 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:49.159 that was good. And I remember I made you a 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.480 bunch of cupcakes and you were so fucking mad. I 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.879 made you goddamn cupcakes, Like, why would you want cupcakes? 0:24:57.960 --> 0:24:59.440 You fucking smashed them? 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:04.560 Really, I don't remember that. 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:08.720 The first time I read Nick's account of that day, 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:11.440 I was struck by his ability to recall the minutia, 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.080 given that it's surprising to hear what he doesn't remember. 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:18.320 I didn't think you would ever do anything on it, 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.720 But I also lived with just a lot of fucking 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:27.720 rage and hate in my direction, and like, oddly I understood, 0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:31.480 like how and why you were so mad. It's on 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.040 my own fucked up way, like I gave it a pass. 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:38.639 Nick might have forgotten some of the painful details, but 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:40.720 he does remember the moment he crossed the line. 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:42.520 Do you remember what that was? 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:42.840 I do? 0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:44.560 Oh, tell me about that. 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:48.359 We were in a fight and it was a raging moment. 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.000 I don't know what the fuck it was about. But 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:53.280 I pushed you up against the wall and I had 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:54.919 my hand sort of around your throat. 0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:57.879 Oh, yeah, you remember this, I do know. 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:02.879 For the first time, Maggie breaks eye contact, she covers 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:04.080 her face with her hands. 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:06.639 Why did I hello this shit? 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:10.600 Well, he said get the fuck out right now, I 0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:13.000 think is what you said, and I agreed with you. 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:15.600 It reads like domestic violence. 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:16.040 I know. 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:20.760 It dawned on me like, wow, this is really fucked up. 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:23.760 What am I doing? And you were looking at me like, yeah, 0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:26.119 what the fuck are you doing? Can you remember that? 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.040 And I had so much empathy for what you were 0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:38.240 going through and as I sit here hearing that, no, 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.600 it's like, where was I my fucking empathy for myself? 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.800 Who looked out for me? And why wasn't I looking 0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:51.520 out for me? That's this fucking recurring pattern that just 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:53.800 like lived out, and I think that's why I'm feeling 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:56.120 all the things that I'm feeling that It's like, holy fuck, 0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:59.639 this is just another iteration of something that was a 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:01.760 part of that's my own story. 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:11.959 For years, Maggie, I'm sorry, I don't know. 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:17.760 I just I'm honest when I say that, you know, 0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:22.160 reflecting as much as I cared to over the years, 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:26.320 it dawned on me more and more the load of 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:33.120 shit that you dealt with. But that said, it wasn't 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:37.120 just till a few minutes ago that I realized how 0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:42.800 fucking happy that was. So it was hard to hear, 0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:48.920 but necessary, and I can't. I'm not defensive because it's true. 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:49.359 I know. 0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:53.000 I know that for a fact it was true. I 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.399 don't want to remember myself that way about ugly I became. 0:27:57.119 --> 0:27:59.280 I really want to flip this story around to where 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:01.960 I'm a better person than I was. 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:05.679 The way Nick has always framed the story around that 0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:07.040 day at the budget motel. 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:08.400 He was the victim. 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.040 A horrible, painful thing happened to him through no fault 0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.880 of his own. He could have been paralyzed, he could 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:18.439 have died. But when you widen the story's frame beyond 0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.280 the motel room, to include Nick's recovery, to include Maggie, 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.400 it isn't so simple. I. 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:27.760 On some level knew I was just in proximity and 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.080 I was the safest person, and I cared about you. 0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:37.720 I still care about you. Well, I care about it. 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:44.400 Yeah, Yeah, you were so angry. 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:48.960 I still am. It's not just the nineteen ninety three 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:52.800 gunshot that made me pissed off about everything. It's just 0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:59.480 everything going back to nineteen seventy three. 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:04.720 I remember, even before we were in a relationship, you 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:06.640 so wanted to connect with your dad. 0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:11.360 Throughout Nick's childhood, his father was a largely absent figure. 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.200 He looked at Nick as an impediment of the things 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.880 he really wanted to do. Party, drink, have a good time. 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:20.560 You would talk about how like your dad would be 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:22.480 in the bar and you were a little kid and 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:24.640 so like, and it's your time to be with your dad, 0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:28.520 and so you'd be sitting in the van for hours. 0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:32.040 Just wait for me in the car. If you see 0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:34.240 a cop or whatever with a flashlight or something, don't 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:38.680 be crying. Don't be crying, Okay, Dad, I promised, I 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:42.120 won't be crying if a cop like shine the flashlight 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.520 in here, wondering what I'm doing alone and waiting outside. 0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:50.920 Of for okay. So fast forward to being shot and 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:53.480 not letting the cops know what's like. 0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.719 Just sucking it up. That's a lesson I learned early on. 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:03.160 Nick had been taught early on, had a shield others 0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.959 from blame. It makes sense that he, of all people, 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.640 would have been quick to tell the police he shot himself. 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:11.560 I was just doing what you told me to you, Dad. 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:16.160 It's hard to get someone who's ignoring you to even 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.680 notice your anger, whether it's the guy who shot you 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.000 in a motel room or the man who was supposed 0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:23.800 to be raising you. And so you vent your anger 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:26.080 on the people you think might actually be able to 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:29.200 absorb it, even if they're not the ones who deserve it. 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:39.840 That's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. When Nick 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:42.560 first reached out for my help in finding Jared, his 0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:46.040 dad had died only a few weeks earlier. Hearing all this, 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:49.160 that timing starts to feel like more than just a coincidence. 0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:52.560 Nick's relationship with his dad is tied up with that day. 0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:55.840 Nick brings up that memory of his dad showing up 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:57.920 at the hospital right after he was shot. 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:00.840 I think you had called him or whatever. So he drank. 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:02.080 I got a whold of him at the bar. 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:03.240 Wow. 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:08.600 So he drove, you know, to drunk, probably two hours. 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:12.320 And there's a couple of moments in my life with 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.120 dad where I felt like we were locked in and 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.560 it wasn't just me waiting around to get his attention. 0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:22.640 And that was one of those moments. 0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:23.800 When you got his attention. 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:27.080 Yeah, And I could tell he was crying. 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:29.360 He was so upset. 0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:37.280 So that's just like one of those one time is 0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:40.840 where I was the focus of his attention. 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:50.320 You're one of the very few people from that time 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:53.960 in my life where I kept a thread any kind 0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:57.440 of friend. It were somebody else, we wouldn't be sitting 0:31:57.480 --> 0:31:59.120 here in my living room. 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:04.080 I'm so honored by that. Thank you, because I don't 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:08.440 know if I deserve it. Thank you are the hero 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:10.320 of this story. 0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:19.360 The work of being a person is to recognize patterns 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:21.840 in ourselves, to see the things we do over and 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.000 over and to try to create new patterns, cast ourselves 0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:28.960 in new roles and not just the role of hero. Nick, 0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:31.240 for his part, is working to be more aware of 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:32.920 his anger, shielding. 0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:34.760 My loved ones from it. How do I channel it 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:39.440 without hurting people near me? What I don't often realize 0:32:39.480 --> 0:32:43.360 is how much it radiates and fucking penetrates other people. 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:47.280 As for Maggie, she wants to protect herself, to set 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:49.200 up her life so that she's the priority. 0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:53.760 I'm trying to Yeah, I'm almost fifty. For the first 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:55.480 time in my life, I'm trying to. 0:32:55.520 --> 0:33:02.239 Yeah, Yeah, this is the story of a man who 0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:05.800 was shot. I've just told you one version, a different 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.560 one than if Nick were telling it himself, a different 0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:10.120 one than if he tried to lay it all out 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:14.360 again twenty years down the road. But for now, Nick 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.240 and Maggie hug and while I pack up to head 0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:19.760 back to my hotel, the two of them go out 0:33:19.760 --> 0:33:22.600 to sit on Maggie's balcony to enjoy the rest of 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:25.880 the day, to soak in what they can before the 0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:26.720 sun goes down. 0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:02.800 Now that the fernures ripped, turning to it's goodwill home. 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:10.640 Now that the last month's rant is scheming. 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:14.800 With the damage to Gossle, take this moment to deserve. 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:17.799 If we meant it. 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:26.040 If we took but felt around for far too from 0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:28.239 things Accidentally to. 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:30.160 Zero. 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:36.240 This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila 0:34:36.320 --> 0:34:40.080 Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:44.400 supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistance by Mohemiy mcgouger, 0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:48.480 editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Annie Minoff, 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:52.439 Laura Morris, Lauren Silverman, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:55.800 the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, 0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:59.880 Michael Hurst, Katie Condon, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.360 Additional music credits can be found on our website Gimletmedia 0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:06.520 dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The 0:35:06.560 --> 0:35:10.520 Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Heavyweight is a Spotify 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:13.680 original podcast. I'd also like to give a shout out 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:16.279 to another Spotify podcast that we love around here. On 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:19.880 the show, it's called Science Versus. The host, Wendy Zuckerman 0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:21.920 is so much fun to listen to and I always 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:24.920 end up learning so much. Each episode she tackles a 0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:29.440 different myth or fad like vaping or hypnosis, alternative milks, 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:33.080 and she dives into the science to deliver up the facts. 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:36.560 Science Versus is available anywhere you listen to podcasts, and 0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:37.440 you really should. 0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:37.759 Check it out. 0:35:38.360 --> 0:35:40.719 You should also follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight, on 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.600 Instagram at Heavyweight podcast, or email us at Heavyweight at. 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:45.880 Gimletmedia dot com. 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:48.440 You can also follow our show on Spotify and tap 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:52.560 the bell to receive notifications when new episodes drop. We'll 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:56.000 be right back with a new episode just after Thanksgiving. 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:02.360 Happy Toyky Day. 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:04.120 The bott