#4 Tony

Pushkin, did you ever come outside? 0:00:22.410 --> 0:00:24.169 We have to leave it a Hi. 0:00:24.570 --> 0:00:27.930 This is Khalila from Gimblet Media. Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein. 0:00:29.130 --> 0:00:29.490 I'm sorry. 0:00:29.530 --> 0:00:31.610 Who is this Khalila from Gimlet Media. 0:00:31.650 --> 0:00:33.450 Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein. 0:00:34.090 --> 0:00:55.929 Please hold? Yeah, Wow, hello, Hello. How nice of you 0:00:55.970 --> 0:01:00.410 to take the call from yourself. O. Hey, Jackie, you 0:01:00.490 --> 0:01:02.090 seem surprised that you called me. 0:01:02.330 --> 0:01:03.329 So nice to hear from you. 0:01:03.370 --> 0:01:04.090 I didn't call you. 0:01:04.170 --> 0:01:06.130 I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar. 0:01:06.290 --> 0:01:08.890 But this is great. How are you doing. It's been 0:01:08.930 --> 0:01:11.330 so busy. It's nice to like decompress and have a 0:01:11.370 --> 0:01:21.050 normal conversation. How's it going? From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan 0:01:21.090 --> 0:01:28.250 Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode, Tony. 0:01:36.930 --> 0:01:39.850 Paul, how are you very good? 0:01:39.850 --> 0:01:40.650 Thanks? 0:01:41.970 --> 0:01:44.410 I was wondering if you would be up for meeting 0:01:44.410 --> 0:01:48.690 me for an hour? Okay, what about I was absent 0:01:48.770 --> 0:01:52.450 for most of your life, and you know I've always 0:01:52.490 --> 0:01:53.290 felt bad about it. 0:01:54.370 --> 0:01:57.930 Here's something you don't hear every day. A godfather awkwardly 0:01:58.010 --> 0:02:01.170 asking out his thirty one year old godson on a 0:02:01.210 --> 0:02:01.770 god date. 0:02:02.490 --> 0:02:05.250 I know you're busy. I know your busy as life 0:02:05.250 --> 0:02:08.250 mouth father who and but I think you spare an 0:02:08.250 --> 0:02:10.570 hour like Monday or to the night. 0:02:11.130 --> 0:02:11.290 You know. 0:02:12.370 --> 0:02:14.810 Unfortunately, a week in advance, not the I don't know 0:02:14.810 --> 0:02:15.450 what the hellse going on. 0:02:16.450 --> 0:02:19.730 The Godfather being blown off as my friend Tony, the 0:02:19.770 --> 0:02:22.970 realization that he needed to be a better godfather came suddenly. 0:02:23.530 --> 0:02:26.049 It was like if Vido Corleone woke up one morning 0:02:26.090 --> 0:02:29.210 and thought, you know, godfathering should be more than just 0:02:29.250 --> 0:02:33.010 decapitating horses, and then picked up a rotary phone and 0:02:33.050 --> 0:02:36.730 asked Johnny Fontaine out on an ice cream date. But 0:02:36.810 --> 0:02:39.410 to explain how Tony got to this point, let's go 0:02:39.490 --> 0:02:42.730 back to the beginning. It all started when Tony and 0:02:42.770 --> 0:02:47.810 I were catching up and regarding work. How is that 0:02:47.890 --> 0:02:49.050 going good? 0:02:49.250 --> 0:02:50.050 It's really great. 0:02:50.170 --> 0:02:54.250 I've like, I'm actually enjoying the process I'm making this film, 0:02:54.290 --> 0:02:57.890 which is I think the really amazing thing about the 0:02:57.930 --> 0:02:58.810 past year. 0:03:00.130 --> 0:03:02.490 This past year has been a hard one for Tony. 0:03:02.530 --> 0:03:07.010 He's recently divorced and still adjusting the house that has 0:03:07.050 --> 0:03:07.650 been settled. 0:03:08.730 --> 0:03:15.250 Everything settled, Everything is settled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:03:15.370 --> 0:03:17.490 I first met Tony in college when he was a 0:03:17.530 --> 0:03:21.450 young film student with manic energy. Jean Shallott curly black 0:03:21.490 --> 0:03:24.650 hair and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food. 0:03:25.490 --> 0:03:28.970 After college, we became roommates and on the weekend his 0:03:29.090 --> 0:03:33.489 mother would visit. She referred to me as gatzo'meli's mano everyaki, 0:03:33.890 --> 0:03:37.210 which I think translates loosely as the alley cat haired 0:03:37.290 --> 0:03:41.010 little jew. But I didn't mind, because whenever she showed 0:03:41.090 --> 0:03:45.610 up she brought homemates Benicopita and Terra Mussolada. Tony would 0:03:45.690 --> 0:03:48.970 wash down these Grecian delights with copious amounts of booze. 0:03:49.490 --> 0:03:58.370 Pretty soon he started washing everything down with booze. There's 0:03:58.410 --> 0:04:01.050 an image from that time that stuck with me. Tony 0:04:01.090 --> 0:04:03.370 had decided to join me at the gym after downing 0:04:03.410 --> 0:04:06.450 a half bottle of vodka. I remember him wailing on 0:04:06.490 --> 0:04:09.610 the heavy bag in his undershirt and gray jeans, looking 0:04:09.610 --> 0:04:12.210 a little like a kid, pounding on the floor, fed 0:04:12.290 --> 0:04:17.050 up with everything. Eventually, Tony turned to harder drugs like heroin, 0:04:17.849 --> 0:04:24.730 and soon after that we stopped being roommates. Tony went 0:04:24.770 --> 0:04:27.449 to rehab and after he got out, spent some years 0:04:27.450 --> 0:04:30.609 putting his life back together. He had a few relationships 0:04:30.849 --> 0:04:34.890 and then he met Natalie. Natalie was smart and loved 0:04:34.890 --> 0:04:37.849 to write, and when Tony hugged her, she disappeared into 0:04:37.849 --> 0:04:40.809 his body. Tony's a big guy, with a thick black 0:04:40.849 --> 0:04:44.609 beard covering his boyish face, and Natalie was apple cheeked 0:04:44.650 --> 0:04:48.770 and glamorous. I liked being around them. One time, while 0:04:48.770 --> 0:04:52.369 walking by a curiosity shop, I saw a comically small 0:04:52.409 --> 0:04:55.809 ping pong table in the window. Immediately I thought of 0:04:55.849 --> 0:04:58.450 Tony and Natalie. I imagined the two of them in 0:04:58.489 --> 0:05:01.210 their kitchen, smacking the little ball back and forth together 0:05:01.570 --> 0:05:06.129 and laughing. During their wedding vows, Natalie said, I vowed 0:05:06.130 --> 0:05:08.569 to grow old with you, but most of all, to 0:05:08.609 --> 0:05:12.009 grow young with you, and Tony interrupted her right in 0:05:12.049 --> 0:05:16.290 the middle, eyes welling up to say me too. It 0:05:16.409 --> 0:05:19.210 was like he'd blown his youth but was getting another chance. 0:05:20.369 --> 0:05:23.010 But then, at some point, around three years in things 0:05:23.049 --> 0:05:26.049 started to get tougher. Tony spent a lot of time 0:05:26.130 --> 0:05:29.609 locked in his studio, working obsessively on his movies, and 0:05:29.690 --> 0:05:33.809 Natalie started to feel hamstrung by montreal, its smallness, the 0:05:33.890 --> 0:05:37.569 lack of opportunities. They wanted a baby but were having 0:05:37.570 --> 0:05:41.049 a hard time with it. And then Tony's dad died, 0:05:41.450 --> 0:05:44.330 making him the sole caretaker of his mother, a woman 0:05:44.369 --> 0:05:47.529 who didn't shy away from espousing strong opinions about her 0:05:47.570 --> 0:05:50.810 son's personal life. All of this was hard on him 0:05:50.849 --> 0:05:52.369 and Natalie. 0:05:52.529 --> 0:05:54.569 She was not happy. She was not happy. She was 0:05:54.609 --> 0:05:57.089 not happy. She just didn't want to be here. 0:05:58.049 --> 0:06:00.409 Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place, 0:06:00.690 --> 0:06:03.249 but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one, and 0:06:03.289 --> 0:06:06.130 he couldn't leave his mother all alone. So when Natalie 0:06:06.169 --> 0:06:09.049 decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her. 0:06:09.609 --> 0:06:12.010 Was there ever a conversation in which you were both 0:06:12.010 --> 0:06:14.049 trying to envision a way in which you could leave 0:06:14.049 --> 0:06:14.489 the city. 0:06:14.929 --> 0:06:18.210 No, because there was no way, like even with. 0:06:18.130 --> 0:06:24.409 Your mother, to go with you. Why is that no? 0:06:27.049 --> 0:06:29.729 Tony's mother is an eighty four year old Greek woman 0:06:29.810 --> 0:06:33.210 with little English, whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her 0:06:33.210 --> 0:06:37.330 toaster of and wringing her hands while frowning and so 0:06:37.409 --> 0:06:40.609 in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem. Before 0:06:40.609 --> 0:06:43.409 they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby, 0:06:43.890 --> 0:06:47.450 and now he finds himself alone, middle aged, and worried 0:06:47.489 --> 0:06:49.849 he's missed his last chance to have a kid. 0:06:50.650 --> 0:06:54.089 I don't think there's a point to anything if you 0:06:54.089 --> 0:06:56.129 don't have a relationship with a young person, How do 0:06:56.169 --> 0:06:58.449 you mean if I sit here in the dark thinking 0:06:58.450 --> 0:07:00.529 about it and realizing, you know, I'm forty six years 0:07:00.570 --> 0:07:03.370 old and I live alone and I'm not, you know, 0:07:03.450 --> 0:07:05.289 probably not going to have kids, and who the fuck 0:07:05.330 --> 0:07:09.490 gives a shit if I live or die side from 0:07:09.489 --> 0:07:13.250 my mother and a few friends. But really, who gives 0:07:13.250 --> 0:07:17.570 a shit? You know, who's going to feel a loss? 0:07:18.450 --> 0:07:20.850 I'm not saying that in a negotistical way, But who 0:07:20.850 --> 0:07:24.090 do I mean something to? Whose life have I enriched? Like, 0:07:24.130 --> 0:07:28.090 I don't think I don't understand what there is to 0:07:28.170 --> 0:07:31.929 do here if you're not somehow helping or being connected 0:07:31.970 --> 0:07:32.770 to a younger person. 0:07:40.810 --> 0:07:43.610 Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had 0:07:43.650 --> 0:07:48.650 been connected to, his estranged godchildren. Tony admits to screwing 0:07:48.730 --> 0:07:51.970 up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in his 0:07:52.050 --> 0:07:57.610 life drug addiction, rehab, and divorce. What if you were 0:07:57.650 --> 0:08:00.130 to try to get them back in your life? 0:08:00.890 --> 0:08:05.370 I'm not sure what difference I can make. And somebody's 0:08:05.369 --> 0:08:07.730 like it's kind of like, hey, yeah, here I am now, 0:08:07.770 --> 0:08:09.570 I'm ready for you, Like I haven't been here all 0:08:09.610 --> 0:08:11.450 these years? But hey, here I am now, you know. 0:08:11.850 --> 0:08:14.290 Not hearing my friend give up on himself so easily, 0:08:14.730 --> 0:08:18.210 I decided to suggest something bold. Why not try reaching 0:08:18.210 --> 0:08:19.650 out to the god kids he lost? 0:08:20.010 --> 0:08:25.730 Now, I mean, I actually do want to have a relationship. 0:08:26.330 --> 0:08:29.650 I do. You don't know until you at least try. 0:08:29.410 --> 0:08:33.610 Right, I'm I'm, I'm open to anything. 0:08:34.090 --> 0:08:39.530 And do you have their phone numbers? I get him 0:08:39.530 --> 0:08:43.650 to tell me about them. Beginning with the first Paul. 0:08:43.450 --> 0:08:46.530 I was sixteen years old. It was very formal. 0:08:47.170 --> 0:08:50.730 I held this kid in a Greek Orthodox baptism ceremony 0:08:50.970 --> 0:08:51.490 for an hour. 0:08:51.570 --> 0:08:52.850 My arm almost fell off. 0:08:53.050 --> 0:08:55.010 Babies are really heavy, especially when you have one arm 0:08:55.050 --> 0:08:57.010 to hold onto them and have a candle in the other. 0:08:57.250 --> 0:08:58.650 Yeah, but it was cute. You know. 0:08:58.690 --> 0:09:03.610 I was really young, and I was close to their family, 0:09:04.410 --> 0:09:07.250 but I was sixteen. Within like two years, I was 0:09:07.290 --> 0:09:14.490 a raving, lunatic, alcoholic drug addict. I didn't see much 0:09:14.490 --> 0:09:18.410 of him or anybody at all from the family for 0:09:18.530 --> 0:09:21.530 quite a few years, and I didn't think about it much, 0:09:22.250 --> 0:09:23.170 that's for sure. 0:09:23.970 --> 0:09:26.810 And this god kid what's his name? His name is Paul, 0:09:27.170 --> 0:09:28.930 and Paul would be about thirty years old. 0:09:28.970 --> 0:09:32.770 Now, uh, yeah, he's thirty one. 0:09:33.450 --> 0:09:34.130 And here's the thing. 0:09:34.450 --> 0:09:36.530 I've never actually talked to him about about how he 0:09:36.530 --> 0:09:40.010 felt having an absencee godfather. But he beat me at 0:09:40.010 --> 0:09:42.290 an arm wrestle, and he I think he really enjoyed that. 0:09:43.090 --> 0:09:45.090 And when you say he enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging 0:09:45.170 --> 0:09:47.010 out and spending time with you, or he enjoyed beating 0:09:47.090 --> 0:09:51.490 you enjoyed beating me for being such a crappy godfather. 0:09:51.930 --> 0:09:52.610 That's what I'm saying. 0:09:52.690 --> 0:09:56.290 Yeah, is there a particular question that you would want 0:09:56.330 --> 0:10:00.090 to pose to him or to all of them? 0:10:02.370 --> 0:10:03.010 Do you hate me? 0:10:04.610 --> 0:10:04.690 Like? 0:10:04.770 --> 0:10:08.690 Does it mean anything that I'm somebody's godfather because I 0:10:08.730 --> 0:10:11.010 said so or somebody said so, or we did something 0:10:11.130 --> 0:10:14.890 a long time ago. It can mean nothing or it 0:10:14.890 --> 0:10:18.410 can mean something. You know, Godfather's a big fucking deal 0:10:18.490 --> 0:10:21.770 if you think about it. It has this spiritual implication 0:10:21.890 --> 0:10:24.930 God right, it's not toilet father. 0:10:31.970 --> 0:10:34.690 And so, with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone 0:10:34.850 --> 0:10:37.530 and reached out to Paul, which brings us back to 0:10:37.570 --> 0:10:41.290 the phone call you heard earlier on Saturday. Yeah, I 0:10:41.290 --> 0:10:43.010 think that's that'll be easiest. 0:10:43.250 --> 0:10:45.850 Okay, are you are you up to this? You don't 0:10:45.850 --> 0:10:47.330 feel like I don't want to impose on. 0:10:47.290 --> 0:10:49.810 You like and you said, you know you feel bad. 0:10:49.890 --> 0:10:53.330 I don't think you should. There's nothing to feel bad about. 0:10:55.210 --> 0:10:57.730 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, give me a call the weekend 0:10:57.770 --> 0:11:00.809 and we'll try to figure something out. Okay, great, and 0:11:00.890 --> 0:11:04.970 I'll call you perfect. Right, sounds good. 0:11:09.170 --> 0:11:12.850 On Saturday, Tony called with no response. He reached out 0:11:12.850 --> 0:11:18.450 again and again. Eventually he gave up. Tony and Paul 0:11:18.770 --> 0:11:25.970 never got together. Tony and I reconvened, and I tried 0:11:26.010 --> 0:11:29.610 to bolster his spirits. Maybe things would go better with godchild. 0:11:29.650 --> 0:11:31.090 The second Zoe. 0:11:31.930 --> 0:11:35.570 She is the daughter of a rehab buddy who was 0:11:35.610 --> 0:11:37.810 actually also a drug dealer here in Montreal when I 0:11:37.890 --> 0:11:42.570 was dealing in Montreal, and we met in rehab in Ottawa, 0:11:43.210 --> 0:11:46.850 and he asked me, do you want to be her godfather? 0:11:46.930 --> 0:11:49.330 I said sure, I said you guys in baptizer. I said, no, 0:11:49.450 --> 0:11:53.330 be her godfather? Okay, great, And so it was just 0:11:53.490 --> 0:11:58.090 like that. That was easy, yeah, but it was meaningful. 0:11:58.970 --> 0:12:00.929 I was happy to do whatever was going to be 0:12:00.970 --> 0:12:04.250 required of me. And I did see the kid, you know, 0:12:04.290 --> 0:12:09.010 when she was young, and then I moved to Montreal, 0:12:09.770 --> 0:12:11.850 and so she basically grew up without me. 0:12:12.690 --> 0:12:15.890 In the intervening years, Tony's only seen Zoe a couple times. 0:12:16.490 --> 0:12:18.810 When she comes to town. She doesn't bother looking him 0:12:18.890 --> 0:12:19.970 up because. 0:12:19.770 --> 0:12:22.210 I remember how I used to see people that were like, 0:12:22.650 --> 0:12:27.730 never mind forties, Yeah, like people in their thirties were crusty, 0:12:28.730 --> 0:12:32.810 you know, a yellow Tony ailed, you know, old people. 0:12:32.850 --> 0:12:35.730 And occasionally, you know, I get like she likes something 0:12:35.730 --> 0:12:41.850 on my Facebook page and I'll be like, ooh. 0:12:39.570 --> 0:12:42.330 But Tony wants more than that. Since Zoe still lives 0:12:42.370 --> 0:12:45.210 in Ottawa, just a two hour drive away, I suggest 0:12:45.290 --> 0:12:48.290 to go visit her. Maybe it isn't too late. But 0:12:48.370 --> 0:12:51.330 after his failed attempt with Paul, he isn't sure she'll 0:12:51.370 --> 0:12:53.730 even want to see him, so I offered a road 0:12:53.730 --> 0:12:56.090 trip down with him for emotional support. 0:12:57.410 --> 0:12:58.650 My god, O late. 0:12:59.130 --> 0:13:01.010 You know, the whole purpose of this thing is for 0:13:01.090 --> 0:13:02.930 you not to be a dead meat god Dad. 0:13:03.210 --> 0:13:04.970 I know. I feel really bad. It's my fault. 0:13:05.450 --> 0:13:08.090 It's Zoe's last week of high school and Tony's arranged 0:13:08.090 --> 0:13:10.250 to pick her up after her day of finals. 0:13:10.770 --> 0:13:13.250 You don't mind driving a little faster to you don't 0:13:13.330 --> 0:13:14.929 go like snail past grandma style. 0:13:15.370 --> 0:13:16.850 That's my style. No grandma style. 0:13:16.890 --> 0:13:17.410 Don't do that. 0:13:18.250 --> 0:13:20.690 When we get to the school, Zoe's waiting outside. 0:13:21.170 --> 0:13:23.890 All right, here we go. You're feeling good. I'm feeling good. 0:13:25.290 --> 0:13:26.290 There we get here we go? 0:13:27.290 --> 0:13:27.930 Here were god? 0:13:29.130 --> 0:13:31.010 Hello? Hello? 0:13:31.410 --> 0:13:34.450 Zoe is eighteen. She's wearing a Yin and Yang choker 0:13:34.530 --> 0:13:37.050 around her neck and a pink scrunchy in her hair. 0:13:37.770 --> 0:13:38.490 So how's everything? 0:13:38.530 --> 0:13:40.010 How are you really good? 0:13:40.570 --> 0:13:41.250 Almost done? 0:13:41.810 --> 0:13:42.370 High school? 0:13:43.130 --> 0:13:44.090 The final frontier? 0:13:45.130 --> 0:13:46.810 So go to the park. 0:13:50.810 --> 0:13:55.770 Would you like some candy? Tom Zooe. As Tony's emotional 0:13:55.810 --> 0:13:59.170 support system, I thought it might be helpful to bring refreshments. 0:13:59.690 --> 0:14:09.090 We drive along, chewing in silence, and then Tony decides 0:14:09.170 --> 0:14:10.130 it's to break the ice. 0:14:10.610 --> 0:14:12.490 I have a really disgusting story to tell you. 0:14:14.970 --> 0:14:16.690 Well, can you contextualize what discussions? 0:14:16.730 --> 0:14:18.890 Oh my god, I'm only thinking about it because it 0:14:18.930 --> 0:14:19.850 happened right around here. 0:14:20.010 --> 0:14:21.610 Oh no, I don't like where this is going. 0:14:23.250 --> 0:14:26.610 A friend of mine has been collecting his vomit for 0:14:26.650 --> 0:14:29.810 the past twenty years in a gigantic tin like a 0:14:29.890 --> 0:14:31.810 gigantic metal drama in the basement. 0:14:32.650 --> 0:14:39.130 Oh my god, what heck? I wasn't expecting that either. 0:14:40.930 --> 0:14:41.890 That's so terrible. 0:14:41.890 --> 0:14:42.410 Why would you? 0:14:42.490 --> 0:14:46.250 Why would you bring something like that up right now? 0:14:46.930 --> 0:14:50.090 So like, how did you find out about that? So 0:14:50.170 --> 0:14:54.770 many questions and fun fact, the Vomit House is on 0:14:54.930 --> 0:14:58.610 Ralph Street. Google map it. It's right there next to 0:14:58.650 --> 0:15:01.210 Brown's inlet the park we're on our way to. 0:15:10.970 --> 0:15:13.810 I've only been to this park once before, and that 0:15:13.930 --> 0:15:18.250 was a weird day. I started dating this guy and 0:15:18.930 --> 0:15:20.810 like the first time we ever hung out outside of 0:15:20.810 --> 0:15:23.530 school was in this park. We were on those swings 0:15:23.610 --> 0:15:26.250 and I just remember being like, wow, this is really weird, 0:15:26.330 --> 0:15:27.730 like this is a date. 0:15:28.410 --> 0:15:31.170 So I guess that was like my first date. We 0:15:31.250 --> 0:15:34.050 find a picnic table beside the playground where young mothers 0:15:34.090 --> 0:15:36.890 are playing with their babies. Tony and Zoe sit side 0:15:36.890 --> 0:15:40.090 by side, she fiddling with a strand of hair and 0:15:40.130 --> 0:15:43.250 he's staring at the table, sweeping pebbles of sand back 0:15:43.290 --> 0:15:46.370 and forth. The two of them catch up. It turns 0:15:46.410 --> 0:15:50.330 out Zoe's taking improv classes and Tony's taken improv classes too, 0:15:50.850 --> 0:15:51.370 back and forth. 0:15:51.570 --> 0:15:53.450 I'd love to see that. I'd love to see that. 0:15:53.570 --> 0:15:55.850 You'd like my troop. I think you'd like those guys 0:15:55.850 --> 0:15:56.130 a lot. 0:15:56.810 --> 0:15:59.410 Being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding as 0:15:59.450 --> 0:16:02.090 well as a lover of show business. I ask if 0:16:02.090 --> 0:16:03.690 they might improvise a scene or two. 0:16:05.450 --> 0:16:06.610 This is my favorite bench. 0:16:07.530 --> 0:16:09.730 It's funny because it's also my favor revenge, and I've 0:16:09.770 --> 0:16:11.210 actually never seen you sitting here. 0:16:11.290 --> 0:16:13.890 But instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for, I 0:16:13.930 --> 0:16:17.410 get a sluggish five minute piece of Samuel Bickhetti in theater. 0:16:17.770 --> 0:16:20.210 So I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have 0:16:20.290 --> 0:16:22.970 to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his. 0:16:23.970 --> 0:16:27.290 And scene I thought, like, I'm probably was supposed to 0:16:27.330 --> 0:16:28.650 be like funny well, because he. 0:16:28.650 --> 0:16:29.410 Usually his energy. 0:16:29.450 --> 0:16:31.690 And you're on stage and you're like, you're doing stupid 0:16:31.730 --> 0:16:34.330 shit and people are laughing, You're not laughing, and. 0:16:34.490 --> 0:16:38.170 In my heart it feels like Christmas morning on Ralph Street. 0:16:38.410 --> 0:16:40.850 As Tony and Zoe begin to bond. 0:16:41.050 --> 0:16:46.170 Yeah, so I'm playing. 0:16:45.450 --> 0:16:57.010 They're having fun, but Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood. Tentatively, 0:16:57.450 --> 0:16:58.250 he brings it up. 0:16:58.850 --> 0:17:00.770 I the godfather. 0:17:01.330 --> 0:17:05.770 Traditionally, that's well, godfather's supposed to to write spiritual instruction. 0:17:06.450 --> 0:17:12.050 And I wasn't there when you were really young, when 0:17:12.050 --> 0:17:14.409 you were told when you were young, this is Tony, 0:17:14.449 --> 0:17:15.170 He's your godfather. 0:17:15.770 --> 0:17:16.609 Do you remember that. 0:17:19.090 --> 0:17:20.290 I always knew that you would. 0:17:20.449 --> 0:17:22.090 You had this like connection to my parents that was 0:17:22.129 --> 0:17:24.850 really valuable, So by extensionally you'd be valuable to me 0:17:25.290 --> 0:17:26.530 even though I didn't know you that. 0:17:26.530 --> 0:17:29.730 Well, Yeah, what do you What can I offer you 0:17:29.889 --> 0:17:32.410 at this point? From this point onward in. 0:17:32.369 --> 0:17:36.689 A formal fashion, I don't know what you hope for 0:17:36.810 --> 0:17:38.969 me to provide for you is like to provide for me? 0:17:39.129 --> 0:17:41.409 Yeah, oh, I mean it's a two way street. I 0:17:41.449 --> 0:17:43.290 mean I can't just like take so much and not 0:17:43.409 --> 0:17:44.129 give anything to you. 0:17:44.169 --> 0:17:48.369 So that's the point. The point you don't you know, 0:17:48.449 --> 0:17:49.729 that's the point is that I'm here for you. 0:17:53.889 --> 0:17:57.129 That is the point with a God child, not so 0:17:57.250 --> 0:18:00.330 much with a God adult. The children's book is called 0:18:00.409 --> 0:18:04.529 The Giving Tree, not the Giving and Taking Tree. Children 0:18:04.570 --> 0:18:07.369 aren't self conscious. They don't find it weird to take 0:18:07.449 --> 0:18:11.929 without giving anything in return, but adults do. I'm begetting 0:18:11.970 --> 0:18:14.810 to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his godchildren 0:18:15.090 --> 0:18:18.770 might have been Foolhardy. Tony can't just insert himself into 0:18:18.810 --> 0:18:21.569 a past he missed out on. And as for the future, 0:18:22.250 --> 0:18:25.170 Zoe's getting ready to go off to college. She's at 0:18:25.169 --> 0:18:27.729 the point in life when actual parents see less and 0:18:27.810 --> 0:18:30.730 less of their kids, never mind godparents. 0:18:31.649 --> 0:18:32.929 She was a little bit country and he was a 0:18:32.970 --> 0:18:33.729 little bit rock and roll. 0:18:33.810 --> 0:18:37.689 That was a song, I'm a little bit country reverse, 0:18:37.850 --> 0:18:38.490 I'm a little bit. 0:18:39.810 --> 0:18:42.770 As Tony sings both parts of Adannie and Marie Duet, 0:18:43.209 --> 0:18:45.689 Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face. 0:18:46.209 --> 0:18:49.050 It's clear they really enjoy each other and the afternoon 0:18:49.090 --> 0:18:52.249 goes well. But as far as the god parental relationship 0:18:52.290 --> 0:18:55.090 Tony wants, it feels like it just might be too late. 0:18:57.169 --> 0:18:58.090 I'm really impressed. 0:18:58.889 --> 0:19:03.010 I think you've got a pretty fucking firm all on things. Well. 0:19:03.050 --> 0:19:06.289 I mean, if you're ever in dire need for like 0:19:06.290 --> 0:19:09.609 a caregiver when you're old and can't go the bathroom 0:19:09.730 --> 0:19:10.450 or something. 0:19:10.209 --> 0:19:17.850 Like, I could help you. Only one godchild to go, 0:19:18.209 --> 0:19:21.409 Will Tony be a godfather or a toilet father? Is 0:19:21.409 --> 0:19:23.970 the cat still in the cradle? And if so, will 0:19:23.970 --> 0:19:27.690 he scratch Tony's eyes out when roused from his godfatherless slumber. 0:19:28.409 --> 0:19:32.490 We'll find out after these important messages from our sponsors. 0:19:40.689 --> 0:19:44.689 Tony's first godchild, Paul, didn't have the time for a relationship, 0:19:45.129 --> 0:19:48.649 and his second godchild, Zoe, had outgrown the whole godfather 0:19:48.770 --> 0:19:52.850 goddaughter thing that left him one last chance, nine year 0:19:52.889 --> 0:19:54.770 old Nicholas godchild. 0:19:54.850 --> 0:19:58.810 The third Nicholas godchild number three is Nicholas, the son 0:19:58.850 --> 0:19:59.810 of my cousin. 0:20:00.409 --> 0:20:03.530 This one is especially challenging for Tony because, unlike with 0:20:03.649 --> 0:20:06.729 Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture. 0:20:07.490 --> 0:20:11.449 Tony's ex wife, Natalie was and likable when they started dating. 0:20:11.570 --> 0:20:14.609 She helped him reconnect with his family so much so, 0:20:14.929 --> 0:20:18.129 though when Nicholas was born, his mom, a cousin Tony 0:20:18.169 --> 0:20:21.050 wasn't even especially close to, asked them both to be 0:20:21.090 --> 0:20:25.129 as godparents. Tony and Natalie were together at Nicholas's baptism. 0:20:25.530 --> 0:20:29.609 I was holding him and he was really was he 0:20:29.649 --> 0:20:33.169 was really upset until I took him, and he was 0:20:33.250 --> 0:20:36.370 quiet the whole time, And everybody was kind of spooked 0:20:36.409 --> 0:20:37.690 by the fact that he was suddenly so. 0:20:37.730 --> 0:20:41.569 Quiet mm hm when I was holding him. So there 0:20:41.609 --> 0:20:43.050 was this whole kind of energy. 0:20:42.730 --> 0:20:46.490 Around, like, oh, why is this power Tony has over Nicholas, 0:20:46.530 --> 0:20:49.570 or why is he so quiet? And everybody seemed to 0:20:49.570 --> 0:20:51.729 make a kind of a strange impression on people, And 0:20:51.770 --> 0:20:54.850 it felt good to sort of be I guess for whatever. 0:20:54.570 --> 0:20:55.649 Reason that nothing to do with me. 0:20:57.090 --> 0:21:03.810 Somehow this kid felt soothed or calm by me, and 0:21:04.810 --> 0:21:06.729 we baptized the kid. We had a big party, and 0:21:06.770 --> 0:21:10.010 then we started. We were there every year, like thirty 0:21:10.010 --> 0:21:13.449 four times a year, which is pretty good. But it 0:21:13.490 --> 0:21:17.530 was all good, But it was all about being with Natalie. 0:21:19.970 --> 0:21:22.530 Natalie was the initiator. She's the one who planned the 0:21:22.530 --> 0:21:25.489 Godparents stuff, like trips with Nicholas to the movies in 0:21:25.530 --> 0:21:28.969 the museum. Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and 0:21:29.010 --> 0:21:31.810 Tony as a unit. So when that unit split up, 0:21:32.090 --> 0:21:35.169 Tony couldn't bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom. 0:21:35.570 --> 0:21:37.930 It reminded him too much of Natalie. 0:21:38.609 --> 0:21:41.929 I didn't feel like seeing them. I didn't feel like 0:21:41.970 --> 0:21:44.449 going to her house because I always went there with Natalie. 0:21:46.409 --> 0:21:50.129 But Nicholas's mother continued to reach out. Nicholas really misses you, 0:21:50.250 --> 0:21:53.810 she'd write. Eventually, she suggested they all get together on 0:21:53.889 --> 0:21:56.409 neutral ground, her sister's house. 0:21:56.810 --> 0:21:57.730 So we did. 0:21:58.889 --> 0:22:00.850 We set up a surprise dinner, which was about two 0:22:00.889 --> 0:22:07.570 months ago, and I went over and they were really 0:22:07.570 --> 0:22:10.289 happy to see me. But at the same time, I 0:22:10.369 --> 0:22:13.609 noticed Nicholas's first reaction. He was, he was, he was 0:22:13.889 --> 0:22:17.889 kind of shocked, and I could see that all this 0:22:17.929 --> 0:22:19.769 stuff went through his eyes, and then he put on 0:22:19.850 --> 0:22:21.530 this kind of smiley, happy guy thing. 0:22:22.570 --> 0:22:24.449 I could read it all in his face right away. 0:22:25.570 --> 0:22:28.010 And you think that was because Natalie wasn't there. 0:22:28.730 --> 0:22:29.929 Yeah. Yeah. 0:22:30.889 --> 0:22:33.609 Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him 0:22:33.649 --> 0:22:36.570 that doesn't include Natalie, Afraid that maybe he's not the 0:22:36.609 --> 0:22:39.609 godparent that Nicholas wants. But he also doesn't want to 0:22:39.609 --> 0:22:42.690 repeat the same mistakes, so he screws up his courage 0:22:42.810 --> 0:22:45.810 and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas 0:22:45.810 --> 0:22:51.129 can connect again. But before Tony gets a chance to 0:22:51.169 --> 0:22:54.489 sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas's mouth. 0:22:58.409 --> 0:23:03.250 Naldie, She's She's okay. 0:23:03.369 --> 0:23:05.490 If he just couldn't get back with her, that would 0:23:05.530 --> 0:23:06.090 be relief. 0:23:08.010 --> 0:23:09.250 Why would that be a relief. 0:23:10.290 --> 0:23:12.209 I want to see her again. I never get to 0:23:12.209 --> 0:23:12.609 see her. 0:23:12.889 --> 0:23:16.369 Yeah, that's true. 0:23:18.649 --> 0:23:21.649 I only see you, and. 0:23:21.530 --> 0:23:28.369 That's not enough. You will see her again. Then she says, hi, 0:23:28.889 --> 0:23:31.730 because she's in Australia. Actually she's in New Zealand. 0:23:32.929 --> 0:23:34.649 You don't want to be in the place as she is. 0:23:34.770 --> 0:23:36.449 Right, Well, I don't want. 0:23:36.330 --> 0:23:37.810 To be in New Zealand because it's far away from 0:23:37.810 --> 0:23:38.609 everything that I do. 0:23:39.530 --> 0:23:40.410 My mother is here. 0:23:40.449 --> 0:23:42.690 My mother's an old lady, she's eighty five years old 0:23:42.730 --> 0:23:45.969 and she needs me. She can't live alone, so I 0:23:45.970 --> 0:23:50.289 can't go anywhere. So it's finally he doesn't want to 0:23:50.290 --> 0:23:50.729 be here. 0:23:51.530 --> 0:23:56.369 It's over for Yeah, it's over for y out sausage. 0:23:59.490 --> 0:24:05.129 It looks like that, but you never know. I'm not 0:24:05.209 --> 0:24:06.369 in love with anybody else. 0:24:07.929 --> 0:24:10.249 They sit down on the cow and Tony faces the 0:24:10.290 --> 0:24:13.530 thing that's hardest for him to talk about, even with adults, 0:24:14.050 --> 0:24:14.929 let alone a child. 0:24:15.609 --> 0:24:16.969 So are you going to be sad if if you 0:24:16.970 --> 0:24:20.570 don't see her again? A bit? I can't? 0:24:20.609 --> 0:24:21.409 Just kidding a lot? 0:24:25.770 --> 0:24:28.489 Is there anything that you want to ask me or 0:24:28.490 --> 0:24:29.569 about not leave or anything? 0:24:30.290 --> 0:24:30.690 Mm hmm. 0:24:32.689 --> 0:24:35.129 Did a part of did you feel like a part 0:24:35.169 --> 0:24:38.970 of your heart broke up to pieces? 0:24:39.970 --> 0:24:47.850 Yeah? He did, yeah, very much? A lot. 0:24:48.770 --> 0:24:49.850 Do you miss her a lot? 0:24:50.609 --> 0:24:52.290 Yeah? I do? 0:24:53.250 --> 0:24:58.530 Well, you should have you should have said this, come 0:24:58.570 --> 0:25:02.609 back whenever you come. You could come back whenever you want, 0:25:03.250 --> 0:25:08.209 or just say or just say sorry or something. 0:25:09.169 --> 0:25:15.249 Yeah I did, Okay, I said sorry, and so did she? 0:25:16.129 --> 0:25:18.410 She had things to be sorry about too, And then 0:25:18.649 --> 0:25:20.409 I said come back for a long time. I said, 0:25:20.449 --> 0:25:26.530 come back whenever you want. And I think I think 0:25:26.570 --> 0:25:30.490 she's decided not to. I think she's decided. 0:25:31.369 --> 0:25:34.449 Maybe it's because Post Canada takes a long time to 0:25:34.570 --> 0:25:36.570 get a note, really long. 0:25:36.810 --> 0:25:38.330 No, but I read her on the internet. 0:25:39.409 --> 0:25:42.530 Oh Internet, Oh that makes more sense, I thought, you 0:25:43.010 --> 0:25:44.290 Brian from Postcarada. 0:25:46.290 --> 0:25:49.409 Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas's, 0:25:50.010 --> 0:25:53.530 which is a very godfatherly thing to do. And Nicholas, 0:25:53.530 --> 0:25:56.090 for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional 0:25:56.169 --> 0:26:00.090 tiptoes to try to reach Tony, and together they meet 0:26:00.090 --> 0:26:00.889 somewhere in the middle. 0:26:02.369 --> 0:26:05.490 Do you remember when I, you know, I baptized you right, yeah, 0:26:06.369 --> 0:26:08.009 and you were crying, you were really upset. 0:26:08.490 --> 0:26:09.490 I had to pick you up. 0:26:09.609 --> 0:26:13.369 When I picked you up, if you went totally quiet, 0:26:14.250 --> 0:26:18.769 and everybody was like, he's so quiet, and and everybody 0:26:18.850 --> 0:26:22.729 said you you made him calm, And I thought that's cool. 0:26:22.850 --> 0:26:26.090 Maybe that's what godfathers are supposed to do. They're supposed 0:26:26.129 --> 0:26:30.010 to make people calm and be like everything's okay, don't 0:26:30.050 --> 0:26:36.489 worry about it, you know, but let me ask you something, Yeah, 0:26:37.129 --> 0:26:38.889 what kind of godfather do you want me to be? 0:26:40.649 --> 0:26:42.570 I wanted you to be the same thing as you 0:26:42.609 --> 0:26:47.729 are right now, which is what You're a really good godfather. 0:26:48.369 --> 0:26:54.609 I am. You're pretty good, thanks man. I appreciate that. 0:26:54.609 --> 0:26:55.410 That's very nice. 0:26:55.490 --> 0:26:57.490 You're really good. 0:26:57.889 --> 0:27:03.290 Good your godfather you that's awesome, cool man. 0:27:11.209 --> 0:27:15.330 And with that, Tony was a godfather, because when your 0:27:15.330 --> 0:27:30.170 godchild tells you you're a godfather, you're a godfather. When 0:27:30.209 --> 0:27:32.249 I talked to Tony a couple of weeks later, he 0:27:32.290 --> 0:27:35.490 had already seen Nicholas again. They went to visit Tony's mom. 0:27:36.010 --> 0:27:38.729 He says she liked having a kid around to wait on, 0:27:39.330 --> 0:27:43.810 to serve spin a coopita. 0:27:44.490 --> 0:27:45.369 She's laughing in her heart. 0:27:47.330 --> 0:27:49.290 This is the best day that I ever had. 0:27:52.290 --> 0:28:03.970 And it's only just begun. 0:28:20.649 --> 0:28:30.410 Now that the furnitures return to its goodwill home, now that. 0:28:30.530 --> 0:28:35.129 The last month's rent is skeeding with the damage. To 0:28:36.209 --> 0:28:38.489 take this moment to the sew. 0:28:40.850 --> 0:28:42.330 If we meant it, if. 0:28:42.130 --> 0:28:47.370 We tried, we felt around for far too. 0:28:49.690 --> 0:28:57.650 From things that accidentally. Heavyweight is hosted and produced by 0:28:57.650 --> 0:29:00.890 me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Chris Neary and Khalila Holt. 0:29:01.050 --> 0:29:04.930 The senior producer is Wendy Dore, Editing by Alex Bloomberg 0:29:05.010 --> 0:29:08.450 and Jorge Just special thanks to Emily Condon, Anna as 0:29:08.450 --> 0:29:12.770 a Macappola, and my delightful pal Jackie Cohen. The show 0:29:12.850 --> 0:29:16.690 was mixed by Hailey Shaw, music by Christine Fellows. Additional 0:29:16.770 --> 0:29:19.049 music credits for this episode can be found on our 0:29:19.090 --> 0:29:23.489 website Gimbletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is 0:29:23.490 --> 0:29:26.650 by the Weaker Than's courtesy of Epitaph Records, and their 0:29:26.730 --> 0:29:29.890 ad music is by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter 0:29:29.930 --> 0:29:33.970 at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight at gimbletmedia dot com. 0:29:34.290 --> 0:29:36.569 We'll have a new episode in two weeks. 0:29:52.170 --> 0:29:55.610 The only thing that's the most important is just to 0:29:55.730 --> 0:29:59.090 have have a good life. 0:29:59.490 --> 0:30:01.010 What's a good life for you? 0:30:01.050 --> 0:30:07.170 Just to have some stuff, food, have friends, but not 0:30:07.290 --> 0:30:09.770 to be rich and a offt. 0:30:09.730 --> 0:30:11.810 Or something that's very true. 0:30:12.209 --> 0:30:14.450 How do you know that I just made it up? 0:30:14.810 --> 0:30:16.730 This is true. I think what you're saying is true. 0:30:17.090 --> 0:30:18.170 I just made that up.