Judge Kim Taylor:A Judge's Journey with Autism

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, Broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Humanity over Handcuffed the Silent Crisis special event. Today we
have a pleasure of hosting Judge Kim Taylor. She began
her career in private practice before running for a judicial position. Notably,
she was the first woman to run for that position.
After believing that she had lost the election, she discovered
the next day she had won the election by a
mere seventy five votes over four counties. As a mother
of an autistic son, Judge Taylor is a passionate advocate
for autism support. It's an honor to have her share
her inspiring story with us. I appreciate you coming on.
Can you tell us how you came to help autistic
people when they came in front of you? During your
sessions at court Well.
I was elected mister Court Judge in Alexander, Ardldavia, Davidson
Counties in nineteen eighty six. At that time I had
one child who did not have autism. In nineteen eighty seven,
my second child was born to named the Parriott, and
he was born in April of eighty seven. Heard much
about what autism was at that point, so we're trying
to find resources and trying to figure out what help
he needed and how he was going to be if
he grew older. We did the hearing test, neurological tests
and such, and eventually an organization called Teach It's TEAC,
which is the part of the University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill, did testing.
And tell us that he had autism. And of course
this is around age three.
So at that point when we tried to get some
school resources in place, there weren't any resources in Alexander County,
North Carolina at im. But I have a sister in
law who was director in sexual children's programs and she
was able to get some things in place. Now, of course,
we have a lot more people on the spectrum and
they have classroom for people with autism. As he grew older,
he became eventually telf injurious. Around the age of eleven,
he started heading in the south, hurting himself a lot.
I would be called from the bench and you've got
to come.
Get him from school hitting himself, and you know, it
was just pretty terrible opinion on a bench.
You can't recall if I was in superior district.
I think I was a supure court judge at the
time that my husband was working as a deputy sheriff
in Idole County and told me after his workshifts that
he believed someone had with autism had died in police custody.
Wow, that's pretty serious. What'd you find out?
We were very concerned, upset about it, and we got
the detail of what happened.
His name was Sidney Templeton.
He was in his early twenties and had a caregiver
in Stateful, North Carolina, and apparently he had a melt
down with the caregiver because they thought because his medication
has been changed or something had happened in his environment
that caused him to have a meltdown.
She called nine one one officers went out. Didn't understand.
She told them we believe at the scene she told
him that he was authistic and couldn't be but they.
Didn't know what autism was.
They thought, in fact, somebody told us that they thought
she said artistic.
We thought, then, well, we've got to do.
Something at de Versus Finner's law enforcement, you know, people
that might run into our kids and not know what's
going on with them. So we were able to get
task force together involved in law enforcement.
We had people from the Autoo Society, we had.
District attorney, We had a broad range of people really
that were willing to work with us, and we were
able to get a joint task force with the North
Carolina Legislature who we met periodically, you know, and had
presentations of various interested parties and were able to develop
some plans and some changes that we can make. We
were able to get basic law enforcement training to make
it mandatory that people going into law enforcement would get
training about autism. And it's my understanding that they still
have to have annual training clashes. I'm not sure that
they're as good as we would like them to be,
but they do have some training at least and recognize
what the word is and how somebody might act we
were able to do in video. It's called autism the
criminal justice system through down at the Ball, which is
his company is Legacy Production and the video is available
through him although the statement North Carolina paid the production video,
but he can he sells the ced.
That sounds great. What does it cover?
Uh, yeah, and it's about an autistic We had a
real autistic person who was charged with some sort of
online pornography or distributing pornography, which is kind of a
typical event as autistic male.
They're only get older and they think that something that's
on TV or comes on the.
Internet is okay to watch, and so they don't really
understand that it feel legal to be to be watching
that stuff or sending it or anything. So we did
the video and basically went through some explanation how someone
on spectrum might act and that they have difficulty with
eye contact, some difficulty with understanding instruction and can even
get you know, defensive or aggressive at times, you know,
when they.
Feel their threat.
We continue to try to educate law enforcement and still
have some pretty bad incident happening.
Hopefully we've made some difference.
But one of the things that we did and we
expanded this group to YUK, to the Society of America
and it became a committee called Safe and Sound Who's
offered in Sidey of America. And we had representatives all
over the country working with US Safe and Sound and
going around doing training and developing training materials and such.
And a lot of these people are still out there,
is my understanding, still out there working.
That's good to hear. Are the first responders the ones
that still seem to be out there.
Yeah, a lot of these folks are first responder to
law enforcement, who have kids on the spectrum and who.
Kind of made it their life purpose, you know, to
try to help.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, it is great.
But I wish we had I wish we had more
resource food, and I wish we had a more national
lediflation that makes sense, because it's spotty. It's here and there,
and Virginia is trying to do stuff, and you know,
everybody's trying to do their own thing, and I wish
we had something more uniform.
And yeah, I agree. I've spoken with two former House
of Representatives. They say national legislation is needed.
Yeah. Good.
I think there's a state center in Florida that's trying
to get some local legislation as well. I do agree
with you, though, we need more national legislation so that
way it's not just local spots around the country.
Right, all right.
The thing about it is to say there's a bad
incidite and somebody with autism is heard or killed and
a law enforcement custody or you know, with any first responder,
it hurts the family of that person. The law enforce
and author or whoever the individual is that you know
is involved with the scenario is usually damaged by Yeah.
Absolutely, So we're not.
Trying to punish anybody.
We're just trying to educate you so that you don't
run into a situation don't know.
What to do.
Yeah, that's what the podcast is about. It's about talking
with people like yourself, judges, lawyers, and anyone that works
within the legal system. It's not about pointing fingers at anyone,
just trying to give information so it can be better
for everyone and make the system work that much smoother, right.
Right, And that's a wonderful thing.
And one of the first things I think I would
tell anybody your nine one one fist of emergency communications
if they have information that tells you, or there's someone
went in that household that they have autism, they whoever
goes needs to know that right up front so that
when they got they know what to expect and you
know that the person they have women to eye contact
and verbal ability in But I think we got that
in place pretty much around most of North Carolina.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good thing. The more people know,
the better things are. Right right, So are you still active?
I know that you're an emergency judge. Still are you
still involved with all these agencies that you was working
with to help the autistic people?
Well, I here what happened. I've become I guess it's
probably happens to a lot of parents.
As your child gets older and they don't go to school,
somebody has to be with when at least with my son, sure,
And so I've had to back off a lot of
the outside.
Things I do because I'm taking care of him a lot.
But I do you know, you still try to stay
involved and that has helped a lot with that be
Whau's just getting me, making me do things, And you know,
I think he's doing a whole lot, you know, for
at least in North Carolina and nationally, so I'm working
at some with him, and then I have taken emails
and college from parents, trying to help them with resources inside.
So I'm not traveling around like.
I used to to do training, although if the Internet
was there or maybe I could.
Yeah, the Internet has definitely made the world a lot smaller.
Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's not so good. But as
they say, it's better than nothing.
Well, yeah, if you got to communicate, you know, with
someone and say.
England, Yeah, I talk with a lot of people across
the pond.
You don't necessarily have to go there. You could actually,
you know, join some sort.
Of a website or or a meeting, the meeting or something,
So that does help with that.
And the funny thing is, I don't know if you've
seen this, but everybody's got the same problem. If you
talk to parents, say in Australia, their problems are the
same as ours. Kind of a universal thing that's happening
in larger and larger numbers.
Yes, I get a chance to talk with people from
all around the world. I had a lady ask me
just the other day, of all the people that I
talk with, what do I find that's different from country
to country. My answer was pretty much nothing. Everyone has
about the same story. The only differences in the place
that they live and how their countries or areas support autism.
I think that's wonderful that you're getting ideas from other
parts of the world, because sometimes we feel out here
in North Carolina, we don't feel that we're getting all
that information.
So it's great that you're doing it.
Yeah, this podcast has worked out well now since you
started as a judge up until now. What are some
of the things that you see different in how people
are handling autism.
Well, you have the crisis intervention teams, which is great,
and some of the larger towns and cities have very
well to try to divert someone with specially into help
rather than jail a prison. I was a member of
the board of the Disability Rights of North Carolina, which
is a federal organization, and one of the primary goals
that group is to see how many people with disabilities
are being incarcerated and wrongfully being incarcerated because whatever they
did was related to their disability, not due to any
mental intention of hurt anybody. So I worked with them
for larger with years, also saying that people of the
autism are getting a whole lot better resources at an
early age, and I think that really helps, you know,
for them to become.
Verbal and you know, going to school.
And I had one client I represented them all That
young man graduated from college recently and it is doing great
and he's going to be a beneficial person for everybody.
Yeah, now you had compassion as a judge because you
lived it. How do you think we can get across
to other judges, district attorneys, adyas so that we can
show them that this is not just a black or
white situation. There's a lot of gray air. You're in
the middle, and they need to help figure this thing
out for everyone.
Well, and that's a great question. It's very difficult. At
least I would also head of the education committee for
this report. Judges and people are fighting for a little
bit of time to come to the judges and make presentations. Besides,
we only have conferences every well twice a year. So
the best thing we could do, I think, as far
as the education would be developed something that goes out
that people will watch, that's on point with their job,
that they think is relevant and that well, sometimes you
got to make people watch stuff sadly, but I think
you give me these professionals from those parts, the judges
that I know. I guess you can become really mean
and angry. But a lot of people at LASS going
into judicial system because they want to help people. And
if you could show them this is helping and this
is not you know, somebody just made up this diagnosis
so they can get out out of something. Because I
think that's what There are a lot of steps to
see them out there.
You know you've got autism, right, right, I've heard that before.
There's a judge down in Miami, he just retired. He
works with a facility. It just happens to be very large.
His opinion is if you can take and put them
in a facility where they can get treatment, the chances
of that same person showing up in front of a
judge again is rare. So he believes that this is
the best way to work the system is by helping
them and diverting them to care facilities.
Right, And that's true of a lot of different diagnosis
and even you know, people with addiction problem.
So yeah, actually I certainly agree with that.
And you know, if you stick somebody in prison here
North Carolina. They might not get any kind of help
for years and then they come out and they're nothing
has called them not to do what it.
Was they did before.
Do you see or have you seen the judges in
your area starting to see what's going on and want
to help some of these people that need the help,
such as autistic people and those with mental health issues.
I have seen more open minded us about it because
a lot of people have somebody or known somebody to
have autage. It's so prevalent now, and you know, I
can go in and speak to a room full of lawyers
and judges and usually I can ask them, you know,
it'll raise your hand if you know somebody on the
autism spectrum or have a relativeory you know, and have
three fourth room will raise their hand, right. But I
think in that sense people are more understanding when it
hits them at home.
Do you deserve just like any other people?
Yeah?
Absolutely, Lawyers and judges are just like any other group
of people.
And I go to show them.
I think that this is going to help not only
your profession, but also that people who are affected biotism
and their family. As you say, if you're concerned about resources,
it certainly helps to divert people from the jailed imprisions.
Yeah, exactly what do you see happening now? You've been
on the bench, you still are on the bench even
though it's an emergency judge. You see all these things
that are happening in the country with autism and mental health.
What do you think actually needs to happen for everything
to take a turn and start to change.
Well, the situation in our country right now, to me
is pretty scary because it seems to me that compassion
people are not doing anything based on compassion, are tempting
to help other people.
And I don't know what you do other.
Than try to elect somebody that does have those qualities,
because right now it seems that a lot of the
folks that we're putting into government are just concerned about
promoting themselves or some monetary issue.
Seeh I agree compassion is something that's needed.
Yeah, I'm not seeing much of it.
How do you see making the legal system a little
more tolerant? You've been tolerant, you know judges that have
been tolerant. How do we expand that.
Buses are elected here? They're elected you know part of
an elections. We used to have nonpartisans. But part of
an elections, what you've got to do is make it
part of their platform. And part of the way you
get elected is to show people that you have the
ability to understand what's the difference between right and wrong.
You know what's going to make your society safer, what's
going to save your society resources. You know it's going
to keep people from coming back to the courthouse and courtroom.
Over and over.
Because I can tell you I have sent it to people.
I've done it for so long. I've sent it to
people and then sen it's the grandparents and their grandchildren.
It's sad that you see this. I guess a lot
of it depends on where you are geographically also, because
if you grew up in a metropolitan area, like for example,
I grew up in the triangle which is Raleigh, Durham,
Capitol Hill, and you know, there are a lot of
different folks there. You know, it's a lot of university people,
educated people, people of all different walks of society.
And I grew up with that.
Kind of environment that somebody grows up saying rural North
Carolina or maybe Rule Tenantee. It doesn't see anybody except
the people that are like them. You know. They only
see the people that look like creon talk like they do,
you know, and they don't expand their beliefs and they
don't expand their horizons to understand why other people do
things the way they do. Yeah.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It's the world has
become smaller, you know, so so it's one of those
things where where we have to take and learn from
other people.
Yeah, we do, we do.
I'm not lost hope because, as I say, when we
even when we did this thing back in two thousand
and five with the legislature we had, I had these
attorneys and law enforcement, all these that were wanting to
help and we want to be a part of our
educational efforts.
So it wasn't it wasn't as bad as you might think.
It seems to me once you get people on an
individual basis to care versus a large group of people.
That I don't care, don't wrong, you know, Yeah, I agree.
That comes a lot from understanding. I think more that
we put out there so that people can understand, hopefully,
the more people will change their attitude and be willing
to help.
That's true. That's true. And judges and on va.
You know, we focus so much on consequences, but let's
focus some on preventive measures.
You know, what can we do divert this from the
court system.
What would you like to tell people that they need
to hear about autism, about the legal system, Some of
the things that you think are real important that you've
done or others have done, that people should hear.
I think probably the most important thing is to open
your mind two different citizen among people. And if you're
going to be working with a public and especially in
the court system where you're making life, we're changing decisions
for people and for families, you need to understand what
these terms mean. If you hear the word, you know, autism,
you need to know that it's a developmental disability that
people won't get cured of it. They can again do
better and function better, but they're not going to be cured.
And if they actually have a diagnosis, there are certain
things similar. I'm a pokeson this factorum and from your
mind to possibility. I think that this is true back
five or six years ago, maybe still true.
We had the University of North Carolina have.
A program to diagnose and try to train classroom teachers,
for example, about how to deal with my inspectrum. And
so the military started offending people with family with somewhat
on spectrums in North Carolina, and we just had a
large influx of people coming here, you know, that needed
these resources. I've been told, and I'm not sure it's true,
but I've been told the other states now or event
over North Carolina.
Al how do you make people hav incented the care?
I don't know how you did that.
Unfortunately, we are a country. It's not a problem until
it's a problem for our family, exactly. Unfortunately, that's the
way a lot of people think. We just have to
find a way to get them out of that mindset.
I don't give you an example of that, because I
have seen it personally.
Somebody, you know, you talk to people out driving along pair, Oh,
put them in jail, shoot them blah blah blah, and
then if their sean or their uncle or somebody in
their family.
Oh, but here're nice guys, And you're exactly right.
Nobody cares until it's effect their family or their lives.
And autism can happen in anybody's family.
Absolutely, Autism can happen to anyone's family. It can be rich,
it can be poor. It doesn't choose.
That's fine.
Before we close this out, I'm curious on how you
actually got involved in a legal system.
Well, I went to undergradded that Duke and I wanted
to go to medical school. My mom is a registered
nurse and my dad was a scientist.
Didn't really like the chemistry.
And when I got out of school, I went and
worked for a fust chery disability.
They have the worst job ever. I did that for
a year in.
A cubicle where you have to tell people they can't
get disability, and I try to convince you to turn
them down.
So then I decided I'm gonna get law school. I
loved law school.
A lot of people didn't like it, but I loved it.
I was there with the people that understood me and
how I thought. I really loved it, and still like
association was most attorney.
They're not bad people.
When you graduated law school, did you go directly into
the court system or did you start a private practice.
When I got a law school, I married the guy
from up here in Alexander County and we still a
law practice together, and.
I did just about everything.
In a solo law practice or small practice like that,
you can't really specialize. So I was doing criminal defense,
family law do I would do idle thirties.
And deep and such. Learned a lot. And that was
when I was twenty five.
And then when I was thirty, I ran through just
a court judge position that was open up here, and
no woman had ever run before up here.
The guy that was.
Running against me, he came to me and said, well,
was this really not your turn? You're only thirty years old,
you know, you know it's really you know.
You need to wait. And I said, nah, I'm gonna
do quick.
And I won by seventy five, but with four counties,
and the night of the election the newspaper published that
my opponent had won. I went to bed.
Thinking that he won.
And then the next morning one precinct in Ardole County,
but she had broken and they came through with her and
I won.
Yeah, so wow, that's a great story.
Well, it was amazing.
I saw all the first female job up here in
either district or divers peer court. There are a lot
of them now, and I'm glad about it because I
think sometimes you know it helps it that women have
had experience and discrimination and such.
Yeah. Absolutely, Plus you have an autistic son that gives
you actual insight on what people go through on a
daily basis. Yeah.
And I don't know how you really educate people about
what's going to be happening.
I probably don't say that very well.
But if you live in a large city, you might
have a place where your adult son can go to
some sort of work job and some sort of you know,
place for their safe that there other people. There's nothing
much up here in ours and it seems.
Like there's less now or know why.
This has been great, great conversation, great information. I really
appreciate you taking the time to come on.
Yeah, I enjoy it.
Thank you for asking me in. Thank you for doing
what you're doing. I think it's going to be wonderful.
And maybe you can write a book or if you're
your books about.
It, well, you never know about that. Thanks again, Thanks
for taking the time out of your busy schedule to
listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed
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