Citizen Kane vs. Casablanca and '40s Madness Final | #1061

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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys.

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Speaker 2: Putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 3: No, look, we're going to do this thing.

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Speaker 1: We're going to have a.

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Speaker 2: Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar and I'm Josh Larson.

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Speaker 3: And that plane leaves the ground and you're not with him, you regretted. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon into the rest of your life. What about us? We'll always have Patterson.

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Speaker 4: Is Casablanca the best film of the nineteen forties? Before you answer, consider one of the competitors for the Crown, Citizen.

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Speaker 2: Kane Ugh Cain versus Casablanca is our subject this week plus the forties Madness Final ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to film Spotting, No big deal, Josh. This week we are going to determine the best film of the nineteen four and as you suggested last week, maybe the best film of all time.

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Speaker 4: It's possible, And yeah, why not take this goofiness that is film spotting madness and just bring it full on into the shows, review segments and dig into it from a critical perspective as well. Just blow it out, blow madness all the way out.

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Speaker 2: And our listeners. Then we'll have a few days to decide. If we're correct, they'll get to vote in the Forties Madness Final. Because the championship round of nineteen Forties Madness is live and our listeners can vote Kane or Casablanca at film Spotting Madness dot com or at filmspotting dot Net. Later in the show, we'll talk through how we got to that final matchup. A quick reminder, Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast. You can find us at YouTube dot com slash film Spotting, or find all of our episodes at film spotting dot net slash episodes.

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Speaker 4: But first, Caine Versus Casablanca.

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Speaker 1: Were the coming of the Second World World War, many eyes and imprisoned Europe turned hopefully more desperately toward the freedom of the Americas. Lisbon became the great embarkation point, but not everybody could get to Lisbon directly.

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Speaker 4: A little historical context adam to set up our discussion of Citizen Kane and Casablanca, the two films currently facing each other in the final round of film Spotting Madness Best to the nineteen forties Casablanca set in nineteen forty one, Morocco, which was occupied at the time by the French and facing an increasingly controlling German presence. Casablanca, the movie, premiered in November nineteen forty two, in the midst of the actual World War II. Citizen Kane Kane was released earlier in May of nineteen forty one, some six months before the United States entered World War II in December of that year. Now, one way to compare these two legendary films with which is our silly endeavor here Adam, is to consider this historical context, in particular from their shared nineteen forties vantage point. What did both films say about the United States of America? The working title for the Caine screenplay, after all, was simply American. What did such a designation mean for Casablanca, which traces a few weeks in the life of Humphrey Bogart's expat nightclub owner Rick, who is negotiating geopolitical tensions and an unexpected reunion with a woman who left him behind in Paris. Ingrid Bergman's ilsa, what does American mean to Caine, which lays out the entire life of Orson Wells's title character, a colossally wealthy business mogul. These are two massive movies in the history of cinema, Adams, so it's only fitting that I throw you a big question for the start of our conversation. What vision of America does each film offer? And maybe more importantly, how do they differ?

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Speaker 2: Wow, I would be overwhelmed by this question. But as it turns out, Josh, somehow, having no idea where you would go with this setup, it turns out my biggest revelations on this viewing, at least as it relates to Casablanca anyway. And when I say revelations I am going lower case are Let's be clear, lowercase are revelations new to me, revelations not new to the world necessarily. And some of what I'm about to say is a matter of degree too. How much attention I paid to it on this viewing were actually related to this very question, And you talked about the historical context, something I really never paid much attention to with Casablanca. I was always just so caught up in Rick and Ilsa and how incredible Ingrid Bergmann looked under that lighting, and all of the great lines of dialogue, you know, all those memorable quotes I was I was falling under the spell of Casablanca and not paying attention at all to some of the things that you're alluding to and that I'm going to get into. And you said it, this is a movie that was shot basically in the summer of forty two, released in the fall of forty two, set when this is the first time and I think I've only seen Casablanca now maybe four times. It could have been only my third viewing, But now it finally really clicked with me that it's explicitly set in December nineteen forty one. Pearl Harbor is never mentioned, which also tells you that it has to be pre December seventh. We do also know it's pre December seventh because when Rick signs something earlier, he writes to December. So this is a very clear choice by the Epsteins, by Howard Kotch, the screenwriters to set it in those final fleeting moments. Right of American isolationism yeap and neutrality hmmm, isolationism, neutrality. Who else do those words apply to and who's description does that match? Those words are actually used to describe Rick Blaine. We hear Renault, I think talk about him as an isolationist or isolationism. I think he says a wise foreign policy, and I think the phrase he says at one point is you stick your neck out for nobody, and then he says about himself, I stick my neck out for nobody.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: I do want I want to come back to the timing and the agenda of the film in a moment, because when you ask about a vision of America, I think, I think this is really the key for me. In our twenty seventeen conversation that we recently republished in the Feed, the one, the one I had with Michael Phillips, I talked about the film then feeling like it had this modern resonance with the talk of refugees and travel permits and people being detained and questioned question it and the talk of resistance to tyranny, and that's all still there obviously, maybe even more so. But I also talked about it in terms of how you can watch it and come away with this question, this internal question of whether you want to be a Rick or a Renault in the world. You can accept that this is the way the world works and make it through it the best way you can, perhaps cynically even exploit it for your own gain or are you going to stick your neck out for somebody? And my thought then, what I posited on that show was that any generation revisiting or visiting Casablanca could find their corollary for that question. Man, I was so hopeful in naive in twenty seventeen and watching it Casablanca made me hopeful. And now almost ten years later, forget Rick. I guess I'm the jaded one, Josh, because where this all really clicked for me, this new reaction to it. My new response was when, And to answer your question, really, it was when Strasser, the Nazi lays out Rick's dossier at the table, and what does he say about him? What do we learn about Rick is that he ran guns to Ethiopia during its war with Italy. He fought on the loyalist side of the Spanish Civil War. And Rick of course counters with immediately counters with yeah, and I was paid handsomely to do it. But Strasso says, the other side would have paid you even more so then as he is now. You know, Rick is this fighter for the underdog, no matter how much of a capitalist he portrayed. This ruthless capitalist that he likes to portray himself as he fights for the underdog, because America continually sees itself as the scrapy underdog that can overcome any challenge, no matter how formidable the adversary, through sheer, grit and determination. If there's a bully out there in the world, by golly, America has the ideals and values and is going to stand up to it. And that gets us. That gets us to the runway at the end, and a line I somehow always ignored, I think, Josh, because I was so eager to get to say it. Say here's looking at you, kid, and say we'll always have Paris, and say maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon for the rest of your life, and say, Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. And I ignored the part where Victor Laslow says, thanks, I appreciate it. Welcome back to the fight. This time, I know our side will win. I think it's ironic that maybe we're comparing two movies. One is this cynical, unflinching story of a newspaper magnet who effectively printed propaganda. The other is a gussied up romantic drama that's really wartime propaganda meant to reassure American audiences that the sacrifices they're making because they intervened in the war are completely justified. And I want to dig into this a bit more, but of course I want to now turn it over to you and get your thoughts. I'll just close by saying all of this is one of the reasons why, in this arbitrary, completely silly matchup that we've given ourselves this contest, I'm giving the advantage to Kane, though maybe, like Rick and Renault, you shouldn't trust me. They had tenthous and francs writing on weather laslow Escapes, and I've got a top ten film spotting Madness Finish writing on whether Caine beats Casablanca. So it's true, this is true. Yeah, that's somewhere in the mix here, isn't it. I think that was so well said, and you covered Casablanca quite extensively, so I'll dip in on that briefly. I agree with everything you said, and then i'll share maybe a little more on Cane, which then you can give some more of your thoughts on that end, and how it speaks to this American question. For me, it fell down into a very clear distinction between the two on what American means, which is why I was glad we watched them together as a pair. I think for Casablanca, again, much of what you said I would agree with sees America and to be an American, it's a Maverick country, but one that will ultimately come.

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Speaker 4: Through for the world. Okay, So Casablanca has this propagandistic you could say, or you could call it a romantic picture. Right. Cain views America as a cursed place, and precisely because the promise of individualism, the Maverick promise, is a trap. And so you can say that Casablanca is romantic, then you'd say Citizen Kane is cynical. The one thing I'd add, a detail I'd add to the Casablanca thing beyond you know, all the great lines you called out and the nice ways of supporting this reading is Dooley Wilson as Sam, because not only is is he just such a you know, beloved character and woven so well into the story, Sam has different relationships and that come to the fore, and he's just not a plot device. You know, he's the emotional connector between Rick and Ilsa. That's where as Time Goes By comes in. But Sam also as the musician Rick's Nightclub, represents the promise of America in music to the refugees. Think about the song knock on Wood, which was written for the film, the line when you've got trouble, knock on wood, and how that becomes this communal almost, you know, in a less stirring way, but equally vital way as the dueling national anthems we get later between the French and the German national anthem. You get Sam earlier doing something similar where he's recognizing everyone in this room has trouble of some kind, but we're all here together knock on wood, and why because we know from this story America is going to pull you through. America is the land of promise. You get there, it'll be all right. Think about how Michael Curtiz even shoots that sequence. The director here puts the spotlight on Sam and then emphasizes in wider shots the entire crowd knocking on their tables along with him. And I do think Sam being a black man is key here because in terms of that American promise. It just expands in these people's minds. The couple from I think Bulgaria, right, who maybe don't fit the ethnic profile that is otherwise being privileged here in Ricks, maybe they don't entirely fit it, but they see someone like Sam who, let's not forget how about the little detail when Rick is negotiating the sale of the cafe and Sam's going to stay around. We understand we hear that, Oh Sam gets a cut of the profits from Rix. Okay, so he's a businessman, He's just he's not just the hired help. So I did like the way the role of Sam, played by Dooley Wilson here plays into this whole idea. Cain, I'll just say to go back to this idea of the US as a cursed place. You know, this is a country ostensibly designed in its founding so that anyone can become rich.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's the American dream, right?

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Speaker 4: Yes, But then what happens, we hear it from Kine himself. If I hadn't been a very rich man, I think I might have been a very great man, a great man, And this is what comes. This is what Rosland is all about. The other line that I don't think I've noticed quite as starkly in Cain is very early his missus Kane is giving him away to thatcher and she tells him you won't be lonely, Charles, and that's precisely what the rest of his life is. And how many talk about relevance, Adam, How many lonely, miserable canes do we have running our world right now? I mean we've got I don't know these guys personally, but they don't seem happy bezos, musk even someone like Gates. I think this is a key question for our time.

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Speaker 2: What's that in their Xanadu's.

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Speaker 4: Exactly? Yeah, what responsibility comes with wealth? You know, it's it's being handled, even in a way differently than someone fictitious like Citizen Kane handled his wealth, which was for whatever you say about it, like he appreciated art, and there were times where he, you know, made gestures for the common people. And that seems to be even gone now. So yeah, I think that's the key distinction. Now to your point, does it lead me to choose one film over the other? If we are going to be pitying these are you a cynical person or are you a romantic person. I think I'm on rest have the answer leaning cynical, and so I do think, you know, if you have to find a way to pick a film as greater, whatever that means. The cynicism of Caine has a truth, a bitter truth to it about this country that still needs to be reckoned with.

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Speaker 2: Girls delightful and Cuba.

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Speaker 1: Stop could send you prose poems about scenery, but don't feel like spending your money.

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Speaker 4: Stopped.

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Speaker 1: There is no war in Cuba, signed yees deal Wheela.

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Speaker 3: You'll provide the prose poems, I'll provide the war.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, That's.

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Speaker 2: It's the bitter truth. And it also comes back to perhaps the greatness and the filmmaking that we're going to get to as well. I can't sometimes I can't overlook that. But you're talking about the Bulgarian couple, but even the older couple that we meet at the beginning, and we come back to a few times, what are they doing? They're practicing their English. America. We never see America here, but America is more of a character in Casablanca than Casablanca is. We feel like we can visualize America as a real place, a tangible place than Casablanca, even though we see shots ostensibly of this location. And that's because the word America must be said more than any other word in the screenplay. It's it's this place of hope in vision, or it's envisioned as this place of hope that everybody is trying to get to. It's the aspiration. It's the the place where all of your hopes and dreams will come true. And as long as that is the case, it is this reassurance to any audience member. And I'm going to come back to that that word reassurance here in a moment. But I also, Josh, want to touch on something you said about the music, because this is another thing I noticed this time. Was just thinking about how interesting it is to me the way music is used that that La Marseillaie scene is still it's still a stunner, you know, it's still just an incredible scene, but it's so it's so fascinating how Laslow uses music there as a weapon. He wields a song as a dagger to hurt the Nazis, and it it hurts them there in the in the way the only way that he can hurt them physically effectively. Hurt the Nazis. He wounds them there, and Rick similarly wields as time goes by, he uses music as a weapon to wield personal weapon as a personal weapon earlier in the film as well. But I want to try to paint this dichotomy between Casablanca and Citizen Kane, maybe even even Starker, and then we can transition perhaps into Kine specifically. And I also do want to be clear as I say this, I also love Casablanca. I think it's an incredible film, and I loved watching it again. And when I say, as I'm about to that it's comfort food, I am comforted watching it. I could put it in right now and enjoy every second of watching it. But it did especially watching it this time, noticing some things I had never noticed before, and then watching Citizen Kane twenty four hours after it, I really noticed the extent to which it was comfort food, and the feeling I had that it is so reassuring that it reassures us that the moral math works out, that it all comes out in the end. The good guy wins, the Nazis lose, the underdog prevails, America enters the fight, and it was right to do so, and we have the benefit of hindsight that the audiences didn't then, right of course, but we do now. And it tells us too that we could have it both ways, Josh, that Bogart can get the girl and give up the girl. What a sacrifice. The sacrifice feels noble. And it's quotes, like I said earlier, are so comforting. They're endlessly repeatable, and we get to go back and relive them and enjoy hearing them said and quoting along with them. Even the lighting, the staging, the continuity, editing. It's so easily digestible. The worldview that's being presented to us, the view of America like we're talking about, is so. It has gestures towards cynicism, like Rick gestures towards cynicism. But the worldview is ultimately soothing, and it tells us that it's right to fight for and believe in ideals, and it tells you that in the end it will work out. And to your point about Citizen Kan, it offers no comfort. It confounds us. It poses these impossible questions about America, about identity, about love and refuses to answer them. It treats love as I think unknowable, unattainable. It treats power as like completely hollow. It treats America, and I think America ns as fickle, you know, capable of elevating a man like Cain to the status of a god, and then completely Americans are completely comfortable to dismantle him the next moment. And you take the quotes you've got, all those lines from Casablanca, compare them to Caine, and its most famous line is that single word rosebud. And it doesn't it doesn't give us any answers. It it doesn't let us in on really any truly any secret. It actually correctly tells us that it doesn't let us in on the insight. It is just one piece of a puzzle that doesn't really reveal the answers that we are looking for. And Casablanca takes this real world, this pretty stark real world scenario, and turns it into Hollywood myth. And Caine has this this dark snow globe fantasy, oken snow globe fantasy, with its expressionistic angles and those oppressive ceilings and the depth of field, which we may talk about more right, that's all psychologically charged, and none of that leaves you feeling warm doesn't leave you feeling good. And I even was struck by Josh how at the end of Casablanca, you've closed one story, one narrative, and that last line is the beginning of a beautiful friendship, like you're you're going off, and another new story is about to begin, and that one's probably gonna end wonderfully as well. And Citizen Kane ends with this piece of the puzzle that's burning in a furnace, as if all inquiry has just been closed, right, and we're just we're completely dejected in a way as viewers, as if we feel like we know nothing. We're no smarter about this narrative than we were ultimately at the beginning. We ultimately feel like we have no more answers, and we certainly don't feel any more reassured about our sense of the world and what it means to be an American than we felt at the beginning.

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Speaker 4: I think that contrast overall plays out. Yes, I would agree with it. I do think it's underselling a bit by stressing the comfort about Casablanca, underselling the romantic dynamic and the loss that's really felt there. Because if it was as comforting as simple as you're describing, I don't think we'd remember Casablanca the way we do. I think we remember it because Rick and ILSA's separation feels like a real loss to your point, as you started, Adam, like, I think most people I had the same experience. I as many times as I watch Casablanca, I don't really sit down and think about the historical t I mean, or context, and I think that's probably common for most people who have seen it from nineteen fifty five onwards or something like that. So why does it stick then, if it doesn't have this political relevance anymore? I think it sticks because the story doesn't tie up that neatly. It may in all the ways you describe on a plot level, and perhaps on a political level, perhaps even yes, on a moral level, but it sticks in our gut because a good percentage of us, maybe more than fifty percent, still wants Rick and Ilsa to be together. So I would just throw that in there as like a slight defense as to Casablanca's has a certain messiness to it. Now, is it to the degree that Kane does, No, not at all? I mean everything else you're describing as Kane having I would agree with, and I would add one thing also about seeing these two together and if listeners are going through this process that we're forcing them to, I got to pick one. Which am I going to pick? Here's something to keep in mind that struck me watching them back to back, and it relates to a comment when I logged Casablanca. Gary Angelo wrote this as a comment interesting final two head versus heart. I know which one I would pick, and it is not close. Gary doesn't go on to say which one he would pick, but I think that is the common perception of Cain and Casablanca, right. Caine's the head, Casablanca is the heart. And I think overall is we've laid out that that's true. That makes sense to me. But my main takeaway from watching these back to back is that that's maybe not flipped, but a little closer than we think. Because Casablanca I found, as we've laid out, way more serious or even quote unquote important than its reputation, while Cain and here's maybe where we'll get to the filmmaking way more fun then its reputation. And anyone who watches Kine regularly knows this, but it is a reminder of just how fleet this movie is, how quickly it moves, and the filmmaking choices are part of that, the snappy writing by Wells and herman J. Mankowitz. I mean, we talk about the lines in Casablanca, there's maybe just as many quotable lines in Cain. There's things like the vaudeville section they have where mister Carter, the editor newspaper, when Cain comes in and meets him for the first time, and it goes on for three minutes of you know, Jedediah and Cain circling mister Carter and the dialogue overlapping. That's pure comedy. I think Well's performance is of high tragedy and low comedy. He goes from one to the other when appropriate, and it is a feat and it's part of the fun. I think that's part of the fun. And yeah, let's get into the filmmaking all the things you mentioned, but even Adam a little choice like the twenty year edit, the cut from Merry Christmas to Caine as a boy to and a Happy New Year, someone saying it to Caine as an adult. Stuff like that, I'm sorry, is just fun. I mean, Cain is a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: I do have to just close one loop on Costablanca and say, yeah, the head versus the heart argument is way too simple. And I hope through the first whatever it is, twenty to thirty minutes of this conversation, we've made that clear. There's a lot of nuance here to that, and if you're going to paint a dichotomy, it's way more complicated than that. And I understand your point, Josh, though I will say that I agreed. The sacrifice has to feel real. That's what it is for me, meaning the relationship and what's being given up that has to feel real. I think in order for the allegory of Rick as America to work ultimately, it has to feel like something is really being sacrificed for us as Americans, especially at the time, to see ourselves in Rick, that that is really crucial. Now, you said something about us as viewers wanting to or coming away still thinking that she should end up with him, and and I get that, and I do think that's the reaction that most viewers have and would have to the movie. But that's where I think the movie has it both ways at the same time, to its credit, and I think I said this back in twenty seventeen. I do respect the movie in the screenplay a lot for not painting Laslow, for making Laslow truly a heroic figure and someone that Rick clearly really respects, and they don't make him a pushover in any way, or someone that they don't stack the deck against him in order to make it easier to root for Rick.

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Speaker 4: I had a quick note just on that as well. Paul henried very good here, you know, not pushing it too far, and even that moment where Ilsa reminds him as Victor of all the times he could have left her and didn't. Yes, he is. He's not only a political figure, he's a romantic figure in this movie. Yes, you know, And so yeah, I agree with you. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Though I will just add that I had never been so aware of feeling like she should end up with Victor Laslow as I did this time watching the film. And I'm going to completely contradict something I said back in twenty seventeen. I looked at my notes and I said that I loved Bogie's vulnerability and that it was one of the all time great playing drunk scenes. This time, Josh, here again, I've gotten really jaded in the past ten years. This time, I was writing in my notes when did Rick become such a baby At the exact same time, Sarah said out loud, he's so melodramatic. It was jarring. It was jarring, honestly, and many of many of Bogart's biggest roles are still ahead. But this is Sam Spade weeping into his folded arms because the Dame broke his heart. It was it was jarring. But here's the larger point I'm making, Josh, is that this character has still Ultimately I get it. I'm sympathetic that she broke his heart. I am, But he's spent the last few years in relative luxury. Victor Laslow escaped a concentration camp and continues to put his life at risk to fight against the Nazis. I'm sorry, I don't have as much sympathy.

00:31:44
Speaker 3: Ask only one thing. He won't give me the Letters of Transit all right, but I want my wife to be safe. I ask you as a favor to use the letters to take it away from Casablanca. You love her that much, Parentley, you think of me only as a leader of a cause. Well, I'm also a human being, Yes, I love that much.

00:32:06
Speaker 4: We get it. We know that's where she should have. God it doesn't what our heart wants.

00:32:11
Speaker 2: Okay, well here is where it wh I'm thinking with my head this time watching the movie. But you're you're so right about about kin and the filmmaking, and I think it's possible, Josh, that I have not seen Citizen Kane. Shout out to my tenth grade English teacher who made us watch it in class, and I say made us exposed us to the brilliance of works like this literature and film media. It was a media class in tenth grade, mister prawl, God bless you made us watch this, and I'm sure I had to watch at least scenes from it as a film student. But I don't remember the last time I watched Citizen Kane all the way through. And so I'll go back to that lowercase R revelation again, watching the filmmaking, watching those the techniques that it's a lauded for. Seeing them again was absolutely stunning, and you've mentioned a few of them, Josh, But even just right from the opening I mentioned, you know, this expressionistic approach that that opening. Did you notice how those different angles and the different views of Xanadu and the darkness of it and how ominous it looks. And yet that little light from his room is always in the exact same spot in the frame, which I love, But that you know.

00:33:42
Speaker 4: Why, I noticed that the one shot of the where you see Xanadu's reflection in a pond.

00:33:48
Speaker 2: In the pond, you're still there.

00:33:49
Speaker 4: Oh, I see what they're doing here?

00:33:51
Speaker 2: How do they how do they pull that off? How does Wells and Greg Tolan, how do they not only pull that off? But in vision that the snow globe lends the dark fantasy? And I said, you have to wonder just that shot of the distortion of reality, how skewed is this entire vision that we're going to see played out? But then going into news on the march, and I was aware too that Casablanca famously with Holds. We talk about Rick and talk about Rick. It builds up such suspense before we even meet him, right, Well, charristerbe talks about Kin so long before we ever really get a full full glimpse of him. As well. The tracking shot, that famous tracking shot Josh that pulls back the unbroken take, the single most important emotional moment of the film. Ultimately that establishes all of the stakes of the film, and the key Rosebud moment pulling back through the through the pane of glass, when his mom signs the bank note and sends him off with mister Thatcher, that whole thing playing out in real time, the conversation between the mother and father and Thatcher with young young Charlie playing in the background the entire time. But the innovation of and you feel it. You don't have to be aware of whether or not how new this was or how often it had been done before, of sets not typically having being fully built, and so cinematographers rarely showed full ceilings in shots the way Tolin and Wells so frequently used low angle shots to emphasize ceilings in shots, so that even with his stature and those low angle shots emphasize his stature, and Wells seems like a pretty big guy, and Kane has that presence. Nevertheless, those ceilings are right on top of him and feel like they are just deppressing him down all the time. There is a containment to it, and that adds to this psychological feeling that you get as a viewer the whole time that that something is just always a little bit off the scale of it. Josh is incredible, and those depth of field shots like when he's watching Susan Alexander at the opera, the over the shoulder shot where he's in the foreground and she's down below, or the key one. I'll stop here and let you jump in. Though there's others that I want to mention. The shot that actually might be my favorite is when he is finishing Leland's review of Susan Alexander and that depth of field, the focus getting in that shot in the foreground, Wells's face as he types. Leland is in the mid ground in focus, and in the back in the shadows, Bernstein is still there as well. Getting all three of those characters, all three of them having a different point of view on this scenario. It's that that is incredible filmmaking in the camera itself isn't doing anything flashy. It's planted. It's all about it's all about focus, and yet it's it's so crucial in terms of what it's imparting to us as audience members.

00:37:13
Speaker 4: You covered so much good filmmaking stuff there. I'll just I'll just add to two points, and one is related to your description of that opening montage his death where he drops the snow globe in his hand and it rolls away. There are you know, that's almost avant garde in the fact that there's there are shots of inside the mansion in his bedroom. I think it is where there are snowflakes on the screen, so clearly it's not snowing. And I think this might be before we even see the snow globe, so it's clearly not snowing this in this room and you're just wondering what is going on here? And then yes, the lens of the snow globe where we see the nurse coming in and think about when this is brought back at his death near the end of the movie, which begins with this screaming Macaw's superimposed over the screen. Yes, and then we get that. Maybe my favorite shot is the one of all the doorways in Xanadu just going on forever, which we see, I believe, when they open up to go into his bedroom. So that stuff, I'm thinking like, this is like something out of Elaine Rene's last year at Marionbad, which would come what twenty years later.

00:38:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, we find TONI Yeah, Yeah, it's It's.

00:38:26
Speaker 4: Just incredible what they were doing here. So that's the first thing is the avant garden nature, and the other thing is related to the deep focus cinematography you've touched on. And this is my favorite shot actually because it does employ this. It's that same moment we've been talking about where Missus Kane is signing the papers to send him away with thatcher. She and Thatcher are in the foreground here where I'm thinking of signing the papers. We see mister Kane behind and then behind him out the window, playing in the yard in the snow, we see the young Kane. So the again the layers of characters in the blocking, but also what this moment means. And it occurred to me too just maybe had a particularly good, you know, not projection I watched this at home, but a clear presentation of the movie. But this deep focus technique throughout does work like a snow globe works. It's almost like the clarity in a good clean snow globe you get with quality glass, the clarity of the glass that somehow also magnifies and deepens the three dimension dimensionality of the object in a snow globe. That's what watching a lot of Cane feels like it's like the deep focus just makes it no longer a flat experience, but one that's magnified and enriched, like figures in a snow globe.

00:39:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well said. There there are a few more. I have to mention, just because, like you said, it's so fun. It's exhilarating to watch. And that's the thing, Josh. I think there are some people, and I hope they're not the pe people voting in film Spotting Madness in this final match. I hope they're not the people who have only seen Citizen Kane once and maybe it was in high school and they were forced to watch it, or maybe it was one time in college and it's the only time they've seen it. You watch these decisions, these choices that Well's made. I don't care if he's twenty five or eighty five when he made these choices. I don't care if it was his first film or his fourteenth film. I don't care if it was common in Hollywood to do or it was innovative at the time. It is remarkable to see choices, Like when they're doing the news reel, I think it's part of the newsreel don't They show the handheld footage that sort of sneaky, almost like bigfoot footage, like they're capturing of him behind the scenes. They have footage behind hedges that are here he is now. They just raw stalks, the road stocks, the walkways and the tennis courts of Xanadu, And it looks like something we're so used to seeing now. But I do wonder how common footage like that was. That sort of cinema verita approach was at that time the one that honestly took my breath away the most that I had no recollection of at all. Josh is when he's looking at Kin is looking at the picture on the wall of the Chronicle newspaper men, and he's talking about how great they are. Apparently they're the best newspaper men in the business at the rival newspaper, the Chronicle. And then the next shot is him having poached all of them to work for the Inquirer. And the way that's edited is with a single shot. He's now standing in front of them. Yeah right, but now they're taking a picture of them all posed the exact same way that they were in the previous shot in the frame, except now he's standing in front of them, he's he's poached them. They're taking a picture now, having all been hired to work for him.

00:42:12
Speaker 4: It's live action, it turns into we think it's live action.

00:42:17
Speaker 2: From photo to live action, that kind of vision there again, what about the choice Josh to show.

00:42:24
Speaker 4: That's another Adam just real quick. That's another instance of a lighting time, so collecting and entertainingly because we go from him being jealous of that staff with a struggling newspaper to employing that staff with a thriving soon to be thriving newspaper. We've jumped.

00:42:40
Speaker 3: That's it.

00:42:41
Speaker 4: I forget how many years. But in again, in not even a cut, but a clever use of still photography to live action.

00:42:49
Speaker 2: And that speaks to something else you said. I'm so glad you said it, because I think you might have even used the same phrase or very close that I have in my notes. I was so struck it just how this movie moves, how fast this movie moves. And I don't necessarily even mean the piecing of it in terms of how fast an hour and fifty nine minutes moves. I just mean in terms of the editing, how quickly we go from moment to moment from the camera work and that editing, it almost feels less constructed based on scenes and more more operatic. It feels more like it's cut on emotion or on feeling. It's just it's this fast paced tempo. And that's an example of it. You know what. Another incredible example of it is, how about encapsulating another one I didn't remember at all, the choice to encapsulate the entire dissolve of his first marriage in a breakfast montage. Sure, Josh, that might be one of the most evocative, most accurate for some encapsulations of a dissolving marriage. And it all just takes place with a few shots and a few edits, and it's all done also as well with costuming, with hair and makeup, showing how his wife has changed, how he has changed, how he's aged, how they've aged, how her hairstyle has changed, and just the way they talk to each other, the way they look at each other differently, how their tone changes with each other. And by the end of the conversation, she's reading the chronicle, the rival newspaper. There could be more of a dagger to use against your husband than reading the rival newspaper. It covers everything. The whole sequence can't take more than thirty seconds, and it covers everything you need to know about how they feel each other about each other.

00:44:44
Speaker 4: And we should just know because we've called out the editing so so much. The editor on Citizen Kane, Robert Wise, who you know, would go on to yes, sound of music, West Side story story. But yeah, here, very early in his career, editing a masterpiece masterfully one.

00:45:01
Speaker 2: Hundred percent, the last one going up to the rigging, the guys working up in the rigging to get their negative reaction to see now those guys, how about the ambition of that just to get them even those guys know she can't sing.

00:45:16
Speaker 4: It's it's also economic, Adam, because like someone like me who has no tune, like I don't know, maybe she's good, but all you need is just that shot of the one guy turning to the other and holding his nose, and you're like, oh, okay, so she's really bad.

00:45:31
Speaker 2: That's it. Any closing thoughts or have we done the work to the best of our abilities?

00:45:36
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, I have copious notes we haven't touched on, but I think we've at least set the framework for thinking about these two together, which was our main goal. And I don't know, I'm sure if we need a bonus show for Film Spotting Family members at some point, maybe dumping our Cane Casablanca notes could be could be a bonus show.

00:45:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think could we could do that. There's definitely more to touch on, but we got to the heart. We got to the heart in the head of what we needed to get out there about Cain and Casablanca. We would love to hear your thoughts about these two masterpieces. You can email us feedback at film spotting dot Net.

00:46:24
Speaker 3: Is looking at you, kid.

00:46:29
Speaker 4: So I just mentioned the Film Spotting Family and yeah, bonus episodes. That's one of the reasons you should consider joining the Film Spotting Family. For only four ninety nine a month, you are going to get those bonus shows. You'll also have the benefit of ad free listening, access to the Film Spotting Family discord, our weekly newsletter which Sam puts together and then pre sales and discounts. Of course, that four ninety nine a month tag that is discounted if you decide to pay annually.

00:47:00
Speaker 2: That's right even cheaper if you buy that annual membership, learn everything you need to know at film spottingfamily dot com and worth mentioning not a surprise both Casablanca and Citizen Kane in the film Spotting Pantheon. You can learn more about that at filmspotting dot net slash Pantheon. We have a few family members we want to thank this week, Josh.

00:47:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. We want to thank Amanda, Marbae. I'm going to go with Marbay right here in Chicago. Thank you, Amanda, and thank you Travis in Montreal. Amanda writes that a friend recommended the show and she first listened not that long ago. Actually it was the Shawshank redemption at thirty episodes, so that was episode nine eighty three, which we did in September of twenty twenty four. Travis is a recent listener as well. He says that his favorite segment was our Top five Whodunnits. That one happened to be the episode that directly followed that Shawshank revisit, episode nine eighty four. Travis wrote this, I was never much of a podcast person before, but you guys hooked me. The Top five who done It's episode hit A bunch of specific niche interests of mine, all at once and I had a great time listening to talk about so many movies that I love so much. So Yeah, we gave some love there to usual Suspects, Knives Out, Rope, the Thin Man Clue got attention, and then I think this was a pick of years at him the last Yeah of Sheila Yeah, one of the biggest influences on Ryan Johnson for the second Knives Out installment. Amanda writes that despite being a relatively new listener, she has many favorite segments that's good to hear. But I listened to six seventy four Isle of Dogs top Wes Anderson scenes with my eight year old son. He loved Isle of Dogs and it was a good bonding moment for us. It fueled his interest in sharing and discussing films.

00:48:48
Speaker 2: How about that, Josh a random film Travis loves. Don't revoke my cinophile card, but I've watched I've rewatched Pitch Perfect probably twice a year since it came out. Now, Travis, apparently you don't You don't know enough about me.

00:49:02
Speaker 4: He is not only listener.

00:49:05
Speaker 2: Not only will I not revoke your Cinophile card, I might boost your membership into the Film Spotting Advisory Board it. It probably needs to be in my my four favorites on letterboxed. I love pitch Perfect that much, so now you're one of my favorites.

00:49:22
Speaker 4: Now, can Travis go back in the archives and here I forget? Is there an original pitch Perfect interview where you attest to this love or you just.

00:49:31
Speaker 2: Know No, we never reviewed the original pitch Perfect, only pitch Perfect two, but not pitch Perfect one. That needs to be a bonus segment or something. A sacred whow definitely a sacred.

00:49:42
Speaker 4: Cow, you know why? It could be? It could be a blind cow. Still it adam Still, I'm.

00:49:49
Speaker 2: Going to save it for next year's campaign Project Pantheon Project nomination. It's gonna be my wild card.

00:49:55
Speaker 4: Finally, a book about movies or movie making, Travis recommends Imagine Illustrated. The Jim Henson Journal fills me with a sense of creativity and whimsy like nothing else can. That sounds amazing. Travis and Amanda has a good one for us here, Pauline Kale's Deeper into Movies.

00:50:13
Speaker 2: Thank you Travis and Amanda for being family members. You can follow Travis on letterbox Dot muppet kin That's exactly how it sounds, Kin ki N and Amanda. If you're on Letterbox, let us know. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, membership comes with perks like you do. Get to listen early in ad free, you get that weekly newsletter the Josh mentioned, You get to be part of the Film Spotting Family discord, and you'll get our April Bonus show, which we just taped with Sam earlier today. Ask us anything. We think it's a pretty good one. You'll get that in your feeds soon. Learn more at film Spottingfamily dot com and you can drop a new five star review. We love it. It makes us feel good. Do that at Apple Podcasts or over on Spotify.

00:51:00
Speaker 4: I haven't seen her and I over ten years.

00:51:06
Speaker 3: I could tell she has come in from one thousand miles away.

00:51:12
Speaker 2: Expanding this weekend, Josh, after opening in limited release last week, is David Lowry's Mother Mary. We thought we might get to it this week. You are now able to see that one playing near you. I'm going to get to it as well. We'll see what's going on with Anne Hathaway as an iconic pop star who goes by the name Mother Mary. MICHAELA. Cole is her estranged best friend, and former costume designer. We like David Lowry. We were high on the Green Night and a ghost story especially, so we're intrigued.

00:51:45
Speaker 4: This is going to be an Anne Hathaway week for me. I just rewatched Devilwaar's Prada Adam really looking ahead to the sequel and now, yeah, Mother Mary, I expect to be a little bit of a different vibe than Devilware's Pradust, So looking forward to seeing that one.

00:51:59
Speaker 2: That does seem fair. You can look for that review in the Film Spotting Feed next week. Also next week, on Tuesday, the newly resurrected Film Spotting streaming video unit will have a review of Netflix's Apex with Charlie's Farren. They'll also bring you related streaming suggestions, new streaming releases, and more.

00:52:20
Speaker 4: Also on Tuesdays, you can look for The Next Picture Show, our sister podcast looking at Cinema's present via its past. This week it's part two of their Past Imperfect Pairing. So they're arguing. I'm sure they're arguing about the drama and of course talking about it in the context of David Cronenberg's A History of Violence. New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday, and you can find those wherever you get your podcasts.

00:52:46
Speaker 2: It's going to be a busy week, a lot of movies to watch, a lot of conversation. We are also planning to embark on our Dissident Cinema Marathon. You can find all the details and find the lineup over at filmspotting dot nets Marathons. The first film up is Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator. This is one I've seen but not seen since college, so I effectively don't remember a thing about it. It will be like watching it for the first time. And maybe we're getting off with this marathon on a lighter, lighter note, Josh, and that's not a bad thing.

00:53:22
Speaker 4: Maybe we'll see first time for me, So I have no context beyond what I vaguely have heard about The Great Dictator, one of the big reasons I wanted to do this marathon. So very excited about watching this for the first time.

00:53:37
Speaker 2: And then Friday, in our big show, we will have our summer movie preview and we will officially crown the forties Madness Champion. You can find the film spotting schedule at filmspotting dot Net. Slash episodes a bit more housekeeping. Today is the big day. Tickets are on sale, or depending on when you're listening to this, they're on sale or they will be on sale very soon because noon is the time. Here Friday, April twenty fourth, Film spotting Fest two Fest two Film spotting It's coming up June twenty seventh and twenty eighth in Chicago. You can learn everything you need to know at Filmspottingfest dot com. That's where you can click the links to buy the tickets. The point of sale will be on the Athenaeum and Music Box Theater website, so you can also go there if you'd like. But again, the hub with everything you need is film Spottingfest dot com. We remind you that, as always, our guests are subject to change because schedules can get very wonky. But Josh, we're really excited to share this lineup and the guests with our audience, which we did. We unveiled it officially last week, but we'll remind our listeners about it again this week.

00:54:53
Speaker 4: Kicking things off with Cleo from five to seven, the Great Agnes Varda film, and yeah, we'll have someone join us, probably one of our critic friends, to have a Q and A. After that film, we will have the director of the next film joining us, Kresha that was made by Trey Edward Schultz, who is scheduled to appear and have a talk about that after our Kresha screen And then that night, this is Saturday night, we're going to close out with Wet, Hot American Summer. I'm sure a full house laughing hysterically, and maybe we'll do more of that with Marguerite Moreau, one of the stars of the film, who is scheduled to attend and do a Q and A as well. And then yeah, I think I think this guy people are familiar with Michael Phillips. On Sunday, he'll be joining us. He has committed. We've talked him into it for the Royal Tenenbaums, a matinee screening Sunday of the Royal Tenenbaumbs to close out two fest to Film Spotting.

00:55:52
Speaker 2: And I was afraid of this. I should go ahead and note it now. Last year, of course, it was important to us to have Michael Phillips involved with Film Spotting's twentieth anniversary and finding a date that works for venues and for all of us and different people is always very hard, and we end up landing on a date where Michael has a prior commitment, so he couldn't be part of the festivities. This year we get Michael, Unfortunately we don't have Mariah Gates. Mariah has a previous family commitment, so you won't get to see Mariah there. We were hoping to have her as part of that cleo from five to seven fun, but we will have another guest involved, and we're sorry to miss Mariah, and we know that she's a favorite of many Film Spotting listeners, so wanted to go ahead and point that out. We did invite her, but unfortunately she will not be around family members. Reminding you that you get a discount on your tickets on that Saturday Festival pass especially and you have been sent all the details multiple times on your special code. If for some reason you have and received that, then you should definitely reach out to us feedback at filmspotting dot net. Your pre sale opportunity was earlier this week. Tickets went on sale on Wednesday, and you do get to participate in a special meet and greet opportunity before Saturday night screening of Wet Hot American Summer. We cannot wait for Film Spotting Fest two and hope that many of you will decide to come to Chicago in the summertime and see some great movies and hang out with film Spotting listeners.

00:57:32
Speaker 4: I also wanted to share a very quick reminder about the Edinburgh meetup coming up that I'm hosting. This is going to be Saturday, May two, and yeah, we'll be the last one that I've been able to have here in Scotland or while traveling around. It's been so great catching up with listeners from all over, and this one will be in Edinburgh. Thinking of maybe more of a longer open house type thing. There is an absolutely fantastic place for great beer that I've found in Edinburgh that I wouldn't mind spending a couple hours in. So more details about that, specific times and location will be forthcoming. Do let me know if May two works for you, though emailing us feedback at filmspotting dot Net are reaching out to me Larsen on film and Social so I get an idea of the head count and can send those details out.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: I can't wait till it's revealed that you've really been setting up fight clubs all around the world.

00:58:27
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. That has been my plan all along in underground Ring Adam. We're going to take it public later this summer.

00:58:35
Speaker 2: Okay, good stuff. Some other big news we're going to add or we're going to try to add to the film spotting stable. Here. We need some more assistance, Josh to We need to make this thing bigger. I put together a job description over the weekend. We have an opportunity for some part time help. Hourly part time help for a social media assistant. We have channels and we have content, but we don't have content on those channels. Do you see the problem. There's just one thing missing, one thing missing, and you could be the thing that bridges that gap. So if you go to film Spotting dot net slash social, you'll see all the details about how to submit an application. We are looking It probably stands to reason we're looking for someone with social media experience, someone who is published for channels. Before you can see a lot more details about what we're looking for and decide if you're the right fit. If you want to apply film Spotting dot net slash social, nobody else has ever danced the red shoes since you left.

00:59:48
Speaker 3: Nobody else ever shall.

00:59:49
Speaker 4: Like I probably should have told you this before.

00:59:51
Speaker 1: But you see, well, insanity runs in my family.

00:59:56
Speaker 3: If I could only get inside that brain of yours and understand what makes you release crazy twisted things. Put on the red shoes, Viki.

01:00:06
Speaker 2: And dance for us again. Spot no suspense here. We have already spoiled the final matchup. It is Citizen Kane the Casablanca. We knew this already though, when the selection committee put Casablanca one in Citizen Kane two. That means we at least had some suspicion that it might end up this way. And we're going to tell you a little bit about how we got here. The Championship Round of forties Madness is live. First, we have to tell you that film Spotting got Net Orfilmspotting Madness dot com. The poll will close Monday at eleven fifty nine pm Central time, So that's Monday, April twenty seventh, eleven fifty nine pm Central time, and we will announce the champion on next week's show. Also say has in question marks here in our notes? Will we announce the subject of next year's Madness.

01:01:04
Speaker 4: Oh?

01:01:05
Speaker 2: I think I tease this recently that we have we have something in store for next year's madness that is going to be potentially incredible. But now between myself and Sam, we've we've maybe thrown a wrench into it. We could ruin our great idea because we do have a good we have a good idea, another good idea that could that could force us to be complete, us more complete us about this decade thing. And we're gonna have to think about it a little bit more, and we may have to bring it to the people, Josh, we may have to bring it to the people and get a vote and see what what folks say.

01:01:44
Speaker 4: So I think that's always smart. And yeah, I thought you were leaning in one direction. So so this is exciting. There's a little, a little last minute turmoil.

01:01:55
Speaker 2: Yeah I might have I might I might be going against my own better judgment.

01:02:01
Speaker 4: We will see.

01:02:03
Speaker 2: Let's get into the final four results and quick disclaimer, even though I don't think it's going to matter at all, this is another show where we are recording a little bit ahead of schedule or ahead of our usual schedule, and the polls haven't officially closed. So if things are off by one percent or so, you understand why. But you also can understand why here in a second, why it's not going to matter because neither of these contests were at all close. Josh, Casablanca versus The four Seed one versus four Casablanca versus Double Indemnity. How did it come out?

01:02:41
Speaker 4: How badly did Casablanca beat Double Indemnity? Well? It won by seventy percent of the vote.

01:02:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, seventy to thirty pretty easy, right, Citizen Kane over right, Yeah, Citizen kan over It's a Wonderful Life almost as bad sixty one percent to thirty nine percent. Jack Becker says, this is brutal. Kine was one of the first movies I watched as I began my film watching journey, and is one of only a couple movies I have ever considered the greatest of all time, but I've also only seen it maybe twice. Wonderful Life, on the other hand, is an annual watch for me. Yes, is a Christmas classic, but ultimately I find it deeply relatable in a way I've not experienced in any other film. If incinerator rules apply, then I want my favorite, not the greatest. Save the Old Bank and Loan, Save George Bailey or whatever is it? The Bank and loan something like that. That sounds right, the savings alone. Yeah, George Bailey.

01:03:36
Speaker 4: Jack getting personal there. All right, here's Maria from Kent, UK. Who who I think is? I think she's coming to that Edinburgh meet up. Actually nice memory serves all right? Maria weighed in with this. I know, I know it is totally foolish and futile to vote for George Bailey against Kane. But in this day and age where Cain like people dominate all the headlines, wouldn't it be nice to think that there is still some hope for humanity, that out there George Bailey like people to exist, and that there is still some good in this world. A vote for It's a Wonderful Life is a vote for hope and a better future. A vote for Citizen Kane is a vote for doom and despair. We cannot throw hope in the incinerator. Wow, that that feels like Maria is just throwing in that battle of the national anthems from Casablanca, stirring us up.

01:04:27
Speaker 2: See, that's that's not fair, because Maria, it's it's drawing our attention to these kinds of figures. It's trying to make us it's trying to sturdy us against the doom and despair. Wo Nick Jerebias, who says this to me, is the real championship matchup? One film about the disease that plagues our current moment and the other about the antidote. I voted for the cure.

01:04:52
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, Nick. Here is Joel, both five star masterpieces. It's a Wonderful Life is a cloud nay, perfect film that never fails in turning me into a puddle of tears every Christmas. But come on, people, this is Citizen Kane we're talking about here, some of the finest imagery ever put to screen. Don't be foolish, you know what is right?

01:05:14
Speaker 2: Okay, We're going to close with Ben Factory, and this is really the message I want people to take away as they remember what I said during our review and also what I said when I noted that my winning rests on Citizen Kane winning. Ben comments Citizen Kane is the Citizen Kane of movies.

01:05:36
Speaker 4: Are you feeling I sense you're feeling a little worried about about I think it's I think it's sunk. I think I'm dead. I think, yeah, there's any doubt about it. A lot of lobbying going on here on this show.

01:05:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tried my best in the bracket prediction contest. With Cain and Casablanca moving on, nothing's going to change. At the top of the leaderboard, Lewis raising Kine, that is his own challen nickname Lewis raising Kane Hill is at the top fifty nine out of sixty through the turn. He far his only miss. Yeah, in round one he does have Caine taking it all though. If it's Kane, Lewis wins. But if it's Casa Blanca, our current third place finisher who is in third place, Samuel too many hitchcocks Maxton will win.

01:06:24
Speaker 3: Now.

01:06:24
Speaker 2: I feel like we got to call out our second place person so far, Jim McMahon, I'm guessing not the former Punky QB for the Chicago Bears, who has a great name. Shocked shocked to find brackets being made very good in second not going to win because Jim also has Citizen Kane ironically went with the Casa Blanca quote, but has Caine beating Casa Blanca in second place. Doesn't have a shot at victory, but put up a great fight. Did have two misses Children Paradise over Mildred p Here and in the next round went Late Spring over the Big Sleep. Jim unfortunately went cinophile snobbery. Thought I thought that would win out with our audience and didn't take it.

01:07:12
Speaker 4: That sounds like the punky QB. He would go that route, Yes, exactly. So we will see whether whether it is Lewis or whether it is Samuel who ends up being our winner next week, and we'll find out who does end up winning our internal bracket challenge. Right now, I am still in first place. I'm in ninth overall. Wow, I mean crazy. I've been wondering why these last couple of recordings you've you've just you've been beating, you've had you've had such great color and it has the sun come out? Is it early in Iowa City?

01:07:47
Speaker 2: And no, No, you're just still a gray congression. It is all about my finish so far, how I'm doing in Film Spotting Madness. It does put a little spring in my step. I'm ninth overall. Well, Sam is well, he's second in our contest. He's fiftieth overall. Mike, the Godfather of Film Spotting Madness, is third, He's seventy first overall, Josh, you are now. We didn't have a chance. We did not have a chance to update these yet because the polls are still open as of our recording, so we don't know. We don't know how the actual standings are. We just know that our standings haven't changed your fourth. I don't know, Josh, whether or not you moved up from your two hundredth spot overall or not, or if you sunk even lower. We'll have to.

01:08:30
Speaker 4: Find out there there there is hope, there's always hope. As Maria pointed out.

01:08:36
Speaker 2: That's right. But I think it's entirely possible. I haven't done the math here, but if Casablanca wins, maybe I drop into fourth. I might lose if Casablanca wins, because that's a lot of points for you guys who all chose Casablanca that I don't get. Only dream all of a sudden me being in ninth overall. It it doesn't amount to a hill of means.

01:09:00
Speaker 4: Josh, you'll show up ashen and pasty.

01:09:03
Speaker 2: I will. It'll be brutal next week. So we remind you that the final voting is open. It is Casablanca versus Citizen Kane. Even though I don't fully believe it. I guess you can vote with your heart or your head right now film spotting Madness dot com. The polls will close on the twenty seventh at eleven fifty nine PM, and we will announce the winner on next week's show along with we are expecting to announce next year's Madness theme. That that tells me there's just going to be a lot of furious slacking ahead of me this weekend.

01:09:43
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you're gonna have to upgrade to the next tier of slack maybe to manage your letting gaga by messages.

01:09:51
Speaker 2: Yes, film spotting Madness dot com and film spotting dot Net is where you can find all things show related. We would love your comments about our show, feedback of film spotting dot net. Enough web addresses in URLs, Josh, because that is our show.

01:10:08
Speaker 4: If you would like to connect with us on social media, and it sounds like you might want to do that pretty soon, because we're actually going to be putting a lot out there. You can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterboxed in YouTube just look for film Spotting. You can find me at those places as Larsen on film we are independently produced and listener supported. You can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family at film spottingfamily dot com. That way, you can listen early and ad free. You'll also get monthly bonus episodes, a weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. For show t shirts and other merch go to film spotting dot net slash shop.

01:10:48
Speaker 2: Out streaming now, you can see Apex on Netflix, starring Charlie's Thearren. She's a grieving woman on a solo adventure in the Australian wild. That Josh, here's the added little wrinkle. She's also being hunted by I mad Man, tarn Edgerton Aha, Okay okay. In limited release, There's I Swear. Robert Rameo won the Best Leading Actor Award this year's Baftist for his performance as UK Tourette syndrome advocate John Davidson in this biopic. Seem to remember some controversy about that at the Baptist mad bills to pay Robert Daniels. Our friend caught this at Sundance earlier this year and wrote a handsomely shot and a surely executed debut film, Who's Startling Profundities recalled John Cassavettes and Bob Rafelson, And when you're throwing around words like a suredly executed debut film, phrases like that and Cassavettes and Rafelson. The film Spotting Brick Siren goes off d Yeah one week to math Yeah, paying attention to in wide release you can see the new one from Hell or high Water director David McKenzie. That is called Fuse. Yes, it is about bombs, World War two era. It's called fus. That's u ze Antoine Fuo Quad directs the Michael Jackson biopic Michael Jason Siegel and Samara Weaving head to a remote cabin, each with secret intentions to kill each other, directed by Jorma Tacone who did Pop Star and mcgruber.

01:12:13
Speaker 4: So I'm in Yeah, I didn't see it going that way, but okay, sure, I'm suddenly more intrigued.

01:12:21
Speaker 2: And Yes, expanding is David Lowry's mother Mary, which we plan to get to and review for you next week in the film Spotting Feed. Film Spotting SVU will tell us if Apex is any good, We've got another archive drop for you. We'll tell you about the Great Dictator, part of our Dissident Cinema Marathon, the first film in that marathon, and then we'll have your summer movie preview.

01:12:45
Speaker 4: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempenar Special thanks to everyone at WB easy Chicago. More information is available at wb easy dot org. For Film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson and.

01:13:03
Speaker 2: I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

01:13:05
Speaker 1: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore, but Barne