Fair Territory: Big Framber Valdez splash for Tigers, Yankees/Phillies running it back, Best AL rotations, Skubal’s arbitration

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the Thursday edition of Fair Territory. I'm Ken rose Dahl here with Alana Rizzo. Big news last night, and really we are down to only a handful of free agents. The best remaining free agent at this point probably Zach Gallen. But Alana, we're not going to be talking much about Zach Gallen this week.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: Now.

00:00:20
Speaker 3: It's more about from Barvaldez. Great to be with you, Ken, in the Fair Territory crowd. Yesterday we thought, hey, you know what, maybe the Pirates are going to get from Barvaldez and put him into that rotation. However, Ken, as you know best, another team has emerged from Barvaldez appears to be off the board.

00:00:37
Speaker 1: He is definitely off the board, and he is pending a physical with the Detroit Tigers. Three years, one hundred and fifteen million. And Alana, it's so interesting that one move, just one can change the entire perception of an offseason or of a team. You go back last year to last April actually with the Blue Jays and Vladimir Guerrero Junior. That's signing. It was for five hundred million, but that signing changed a whole vibe around the Blue Jays and kind of took the heat off of the team and off the players. They didn't have to answer those questions anymore, didn't have to worry about lad being a long term Blue Jay this offseason. Chicago Cubs last year did not get Alex Bregman, in fact, finished fourth for Alex Bregman. And this year they get him, and people say, whoa good move that with Edward Cabrera and some other things. Okay, the Cubs go, And now with the agreement with Fromer Valdez, the Tigers are in a similar position. When we entered yesterday, they were going into a hearing with Trek Scruble, the two time back to back Cy Young Winner. They were looking at the loss and are still looking at the loss of Schooble as a free agent at the end of the season, with really no ace beyond that. Jackson Joe will be coming off Tommy John surgery in twenty seven, but he's still a young pitcher and it'll be coming off of surgery. So with this move, what do the Tigers accomplish. They put an ace in place, a coace in place with schoobl for this season and protect themselves if Schooble leaves because they have Fromberg for at least next season. He hasn't opt out after two years in this three year deal. You can see it right there. There are some deferrals as well. So for the Tigers, this kind of takes the heat off in a lot of ways. And as I wrote today, after talking with a person who was briefed on their intentions on their plans, that person said, we are not trading Trek Schouble. Our intention is to win. It's been their intention all off season. They signed Kenley Jansen, they signed Kyle Finnegan, signed Drew Anderson. They haven't done a whole lot labora Torres took the qualifying off for Jack Flowherdy opting in, but they've been mostly quiet until now. And now you look at the Tigers and you look at them in a much different way than we did twenty four hours ago.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: And he's reuniting with AJ Hinch.

00:03:02
Speaker 3: Obviously, with the time with the Houston Astros, it wasn't not a huge reunion, Ken because as you were stating in our production meeting, Fromber wasn't there for very long while.

00:03:11
Speaker 2: Aj was there.

00:03:12
Speaker 3: But that's God means something in terms of the familiarity not only for the manager but for the player.

00:03:18
Speaker 1: No question. Alana and from ber Valdez was first with the Astros in twenty eighteen, kind of a cup of coffee type situation. Then twenty nineteen he wasn't even a full time starter then, So that was aj Hinch's experience with him. But clearly aj Hinch is tied into members of the Astros organization. Over the years, has I'm sure talked to members of the Astros organization about from ber Valdez, and clearly in this case gave the go ahead, said yes, let's do this, we can make this work. Yes, there have been questions about fromer Valdez's makeup, but now he goes with the manager with whom he is familiar, a manager who is familiar with him. It can only help. So this the Tigers is a transformative move. As we said, they have the outcome of the Schooble hearing. They will expect to learn today that should happen. We should hear this at some point today. Whether Schooble gets thirty two million or whether he gets nineteen million, it's one or the other. In arbitration and the feeling among many was, and I had heard this myself. Turned out not to be true, but I had heard that if they lost took a thirteen million dollar hit thirty two versus nineteen, then perhaps they would not have pursued another starter. The Tigers essentially by doing this, said the heck with that, we're going to get a starter, We're going to pay him big, and we're going to have ourselves a great one two combination for this season and from Bervaldez for at least next season as well.

00:04:44
Speaker 3: You mentioned the one two tandem at the top of the Tiger's rotation.

00:04:47
Speaker 2: It is a good.

00:04:48
Speaker 3: One, of course, with te Scoobel and now from Bervaldez. But what about the depth of this starting staff? Can Are the Tigers now one of the best rotations in the American League?

00:04:59
Speaker 1: I would say with that one, they're in the conversation. Beyond that, it's Jack Flaherty, Casey Myiz and riees Olsen. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination. Pretty good actually. Is it as good as the Red Sox rotation with Crochet and Gray and Oviedo and of course Rangers Suarez and whoever else they put in there. Maybe one of the kids. I'm not sure will it be as good as the Blue Jays rotation headed by Dylan Cees and Kevin Gossman with trey Ya Savage having his first full season coming up? Will it be good as good as the Yankees once the Yankees, if they get healthy, have Garrett Cole, Max Fried, and Louis Hill. I don't know the answer to that, but certainly this puts the Tigers in the conversation, and as I wrote it, positions them playing in the feeble Al Central to at least be the kind of team you can dream on for being this year's Blue Jays. They're not quite there. Offensively, they're not quite there, but they have a couple of top prospects Kevin McGonagall and Max Clark, that they expect to incorporate into the mix this season. And if they need offense at the deadline, then they can go get offense at the deadline. So I kind of like where the Tigers are. And if they go into a playoff series with Scooble and Valdez healthy, that's pretty.

00:06:14
Speaker 2: Good, I tell you. And I like their road chaser the excuse me.

00:06:17
Speaker 3: I like their bullpen too, especially the back end of that bullpen with the addition of Kenley Jansen. You have Kyle Finnegan over there as well. I mean they have three guys in that bullpen. Can that have at least twenty saves last year? I want to go back to the money piece for just a second. Three years one hundred and fifteen million is a lot of money, and good for from ber Valdez to get that. But the comparison with the Trek Scooble arbitration stuff, and perhaps from Bervaldez's contract, we're not comparing apples to apples here. You yourself just said that even if they lost the arbitration case to Scoogle, that it wasn't true that they were going to.

00:06:50
Speaker 2: Not go after a starter.

00:06:52
Speaker 3: So talk a little bit more about the money piece and what we should be looking at here.

00:06:56
Speaker 1: Glad you asked Aalana, because there seems to be a lot of confusion among fans, understandably perhaps about the difference here. Arbitration is not the same as free agency arbitration. You're dealing with one team free agency. You're dealing in an open market situation. Arbitration is a system based on precedent. The whole argument in the schoobl case is whether he deserves to be paid more than David Price was in twenty fifteen in arbitration, that's eleven years ago. Price holds the record for a pitcher nineteen point seventy five million, or should he be paid more like some of the better free agent pitchers today. And actually what he's asking for is not even at that level, because while he's asking for a record for an arbitration player, Wan Soto holds that record at thirty one million. He is not going to go to forty. But in this situation that he is in or was in, as a player with five plus years of service, he can compare himself to free agents. So it's relevant in that sense. But when you talking about his ask, which was thirty two million, it was never going to be more than thirty eight that from Arvaldez just got because he is, in his case, trying to establish a precedent in a big way. He's trying to go thirteen million above the previous high for a pitcher. He wasn't gonna go twenty million above. And the whole argument that MLB and the Detroit Tigers made yesterday, I am quite certain is this is too much, it would break precedent. Where he should be is closer to price. Now we'll see what the outcome is of all that. But when you compare the two and you say, hey, wait, how can the Tigers pay from for Valdez more than they're paying Tarrek Scoobel, It's two entirely different branches of the salary tree. So that is where the confusion might come in. But that should give you some clarity. We're talking about two different things again, the comparison. Schoobl could make an arbitration, Yes, he could have compared himself to Valdez if you knew that salary was on the board yesterday. But it seems to me, and I have to talk to some other people about this, but it seems to me that Terrek Scooble didn't need Frobervaldez's contract to make his case. He had a pretty good case as it stood.

00:09:11
Speaker 3: I would just take both of my Sigh Young Awards in there. I would set them on the table in front of Scott Harrison and everybody there in the front office, and I'd say, please, sir, pay me thirty two million dollars.

00:09:20
Speaker 2: Enough said, I tell you what Ken.

00:09:22
Speaker 3: It's a great week to subscribe to Tiger Territory. Kieran Steckley and Cody Stavenhagen had manager at Tiger's manager A. J. Hinch on earlier this week, and you know they are the place to go for all things on the Fromberveldes signing subscribe on YouTube and shared Tiger Territory with your circle of course, part of the Foul Territory network. Okay, moving on here on fair Territory before we take our first break, smart or silly of these teams can to run it back in twenty twenty six, and what I mean by that is basically running it back with the same exact personnel.

00:09:55
Speaker 2: We will start with the New York Yankees.

00:09:57
Speaker 3: Not a ton of difference in terms of additions, but they will get Garrett Cole and Luis heel Back.

00:10:05
Speaker 1: Yes, and maybe Clark Schmidt as well. And people forget And I don't want to be a Yankees' apologist here, I'm not trying to be a Yankee's apologists. But they did win ninety four games last year. They did lose to the team that came within two outs of winning the World Series in the playoffs. Of talking of course, about the Toronto Blue Jays. They did not have a bad year. No, they didn't win the World Series, but they had a really good year. So to come back with essentially the same cast, and that's what this is for the most part. Okay, but they made some moves to the deadline to supplement their bullpen. Those guys will be back this year, Bednar and Doval. Those were off season moves as well, and I am comfortable with them with where they are. Could they be better, sure, and certainly once Cole and Heal and possibly Schmid get back, they could be a lot better because they didn't have Cole for much of last year. So we'll see how it goes with them. But I did not hate their offseason. Once they got Bellinger back in the fold, they're okay. They're not going to be maybe the most dominant team, but they're certainly in the mix to be a World Series contender. I don't know that there's much question about that.

00:11:16
Speaker 3: I misspoke. Carlos Rodin obviously is who I'm talking about. To go with Derreck Cole and I started, yes, yes, sorry about that.

00:11:23
Speaker 2: That's my bad.

00:11:24
Speaker 3: All right, I'm to the Philadelphia Phillies now. I will say this though, before we stomp on them a little bit. They were close. At least they did do their due diligence and try to get Bobaschett. They did not get him. But are the Phillies smart or silly to try to run it back with that personnel?

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Ideally they would have wanted to change the mix a little bit. They've been talking about doing that for quite some time now, and Bobachett would have done that, would have accomplished, that would have given him another right handed hitter, would have enabled them to trade Alec Bohm, which they certainly could do anyway, but they don't have a replacement without Bashett. I liked that the move for them in that sense, what they're doing obviously is essentially running it back. They've changed out some pieces in the bullpen Keller for Matt Strom, They've re signed Kyle Schwarber and JT. Real Muto. They're still good. They're going to be good. The question is are they now getting to the point where they're older a little bit. They're a year older than last year. Obviously Yankees, you can make this case with two and do they start to maybe diminish a little bit? And that's possible. It's certainly possible. But at the same time, they too are going to be quite competitive. They were quite competitive last year against the Dodgers in the Division Series. They could have won that series relatively easily, So again I'm not going to condemn them. Would you've liked to have seen a fresher mixed same with the Yankees, Yes, you'd always like to see that because new players bring in new motivations, just kind of a fresh energy. But I don't think they're a bad team by any stretch of the imagination.

00:12:57
Speaker 3: And while he's not a new face or new player by any stretch of the imagination, Ken, I'm so grateful that the Phillies were smart enough to get Kyle Schwarber back in that mix. I can't imagine Kyle Schwarber playing anybody else at this point, or for anybody else at this point. Then the Philadelphia Phillies much more to come here on fair Territory with Ken Rosenthal. Get those questions in. We are back with Grill and Ken right after this, all right, we welcome you in the Grill and Ken. Time to ask Ken Rosenthal some questions, and I'm going to start it off with another team Ken whether it's silly or smart to run it back, which essentially the same personnel. However, fromber Valdez is gone. The Houston Astros, what are they doing.

00:13:42
Speaker 1: They did bring in Amai to replace Valdez in the rotation, so they're in a good place there, and other than that, they have not done much. They talked about trading Jake Myers didn't happen. They've talked about trading Paradies or Walker hasn't happened. In my opinion, one of those guys has to go. They have one too many infielders right now. There's no question about it. Parade is more value. Walker's coming off a bad year, But Parades they see as a guy who could really help them. So yes, they are perhaps in danger of the run it back syndrome. And certainly with what Seattle has done in adding Donovan now and of course resigning Josh Naylor, they're going to be the easy pick in the Al West. But it's the same thing with the Astros. I can't condemn them, but at the same time, would you've liked to have seen a little bit more out of them? Would you've liked to see than Maybe and could still happen, of course, trade parades for pitching whatever they might want.

00:14:40
Speaker 3: Yes, it'll be interesting to see where parades ends up. A lot of folks think, and perhaps the Boston Red Sox on a short term deal. Can I never thought that, sitting here on February fifth, we would be talking about Zach Gallon still without a home. I certainly thought he would go before Fromberveldez. Not apples to apples there, certainly when you're talking about those two start. But what is going on in terms of Zach Gallen. Do the o's now pivot to him? What's your thought there?

00:15:09
Speaker 1: Not exactly sure, Alana, and I will caution, as I always do, we don't always know what's going on. I don't know that the Detroit Tigers were seen as the team is going to jump out for from ber Valdez. John Hayman had mentioned that a couple of weeks ago as a possibility, but it wasn't seen as a particularly strong possibility, particularly with the schoolbal arbitration looming over them. So things are happening behind the scenes that we, of course do not know about. Now. Gallen has been talking to the Arizona Diamondbacks and in some ways, a short term deal there with opt outs makes the most sense. The Diamondbacks would not have to lose a draft pick to resign Zach Gallen. They wouldn't gain one, but they wouldn't lose one. And because Gallon is the last of the remaining qualifying offer players, the guy tied to draft pick compensation, who is still out there. It is affecting his man. It always does when a player is not coming off his best year or his perhaps scene is not quite the same quality of free agent. That's why you sold four guys accept the qualifying offer this year. They didn't want to run into the situation that Gallen is in right now, so I can see him going back to the Diamondbacks. The Oriols would lose their third highest pick. It's a relatively low pick if they signed him. But there are other pitchers out there that they might consider as well. Chris Bassett, Lucas Gildo, Zach Lttel, all of these guys maybe not as good as Gallan, but he probably would cost more than them as well.

00:16:35
Speaker 3: Another silly or surprise team or smart team rather in terms of running it back, Kenneth Crawley Junior wants to know what about the Guardians. Is it silly or smart to run it back for them in this upcoming season.

00:16:46
Speaker 1: They have a lot of young players that they want to incorporate into their mix. Now, their payroll, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm almost positive about this, is lower than it was at the end of last year when they, yes, made the playoffs, But you would expect you make the playoffs, you could spend a little bit more money. They for the most part, have not done that. So I understand where they are low revenue team that wants to take a look at some younger guys and maybe those young guys will pop and they'll be really good. But at the same time, should the Guardians have added would you be more inclined to like them in the Al Central if they had added. The answers to that are yes.

00:17:26
Speaker 3: Last question here on Grill and Ken. Are the Red Sox done with their infield ken after signing Isaiah Kiner Fileffa.

00:17:35
Speaker 1: The answer is no. Jem McCaffrey wrote about this in The Athletic. They still want to add an infielder who will give them more offense. Now Ikf is an elite defender, he protects them at various infield spots, enables them some flexibility late in games, perhaps if they want to insert him for defense. So he also gives them the ability to rest a Trevor's story on occasion and whatever they end up doing it second in third base. He can be an alternative. But I still believe and they still are looking for a guy like Iszac Parades who is under control, I believe, for three more years and would cost them certainly, because hey, a guy who's under control always is costly. But I'd have a hard time believing they're going to go into the season with this group and this group alone. They do need one more. They seem to be aware of that.

00:18:27
Speaker 3: Okay, somebody else asked if it was kind of a panic move on the Boston Red Sox to sign Isaiah Kiner Philippa. I don't believe that to be the case. All right, much more coming up on Fair Territory with Ken Rosenthal. We will be back with our Dude and Dork of the Week right after this bet.

00:18:43
Speaker 4: I'm JM account holders today. How about in any sport parlay boost token you can score a bigger payout if your wager with that token hits tokens can be used on parlays and on same game parlays. Gambling problem or concerned, there's help called one eight hundred gambler. Dude, dude, do.

00:19:06
Speaker 2: All right, Ken, who is your Dude of the week.

00:19:10
Speaker 1: It is going to be the Seattle Mariners with an assist from the Tampa Bay Rays. And I'm talking about the three team trade that brought Brendan Donovan to Seattle, and it was facilitated by the Rays, if not for the Rays taking Ben Williamson in this trade and then giving the Cardinals some additional talent to supplement what Seattle was offering, and this deal doesn't happen. So the Mariners are dudes of the week because they hung in there all off season trying to get this guy who they consider an ideal fit for them, and the Rays because they are perpetually involving themselves in three team deals facilitating the processes. Both of them dudes of the week.

00:19:49
Speaker 3: All right, mind, Dude of the week a couple of people as well. It goes to Matt Gelb, of course, who did a great job of writing the article, but it also goes to Brad Lynche and Orian Kirkering of the Philadelphia Phillias. Matt Gilb if you haven't read it yet, guys in the Athletic does a great job of kind of explaining the situation with Orion Kirkering of the Phillies, of course, and you know what was the season ending error for him. Now he's embracing the challenges of head and for him to be able to like go through what he went through and obviously heavy on his mind throughout the you know, he wanted to stay there in the off season. I mean, Matt Gilb gets really into the article. It's it's much better if you read it then you take my word for it. But Ken, I'm interested in your thoughts about this as well, because obviously Matt Gilb is a colleague of yours with the Athletic. But you know, we sometimes forget, Ken, that these guys are people before their players, and for Orian Kirkering to have to wear that and a city is passionate about their sports as Philadelphia, and kind of how he's embracing that is interesting.

00:20:53
Speaker 2: What was your thought on it?

00:20:54
Speaker 1: Well, Matt Gilb is one of our superstars, that's first of all. And the story is amazing, highly recommended to everyone, and yes, Philly is a tough town. And what happened to Kirkering, as he says in the article, we'll stay with him probably forever. But it seems to me that in recent years the fans in Philly have been pretty forgiving, if that's the right word. If you remember the trade Turner slump, and then gave him the standing ovation, And I expect Kirkering to be warmly received opening day now. If he struggles, different story, but that would be the case for any struggling player. But to see Brad Lidge, who was one of the class acts of the game when he was playing, and of course remains that way, reach out to Kirkering having been there in some respects comparably with the Pooholes home run in the two thousand and five NLCS, Well, that just shows class, and it shows that the guys, the players, they're a family and they know better than anyone what they go through in situations like this. And props to all.

00:21:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, props to Brad Lidge, Props to Matt Gelban, props certainly to Oriyan Kirkering. All right, time now for our work of the week. Ken, as always, you have the honors. Who are you putting your finger at this week.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: Thank you, Alana. Let's go with the Minnesota Twins. Okay. Now, not only did they have a mutual parting with their president of operations, Derek Falvey shortly before spring training, that's unusual as well, but beyond that, they replaced Joe Polad with Tom Polad as their lead guy, and Tom Polad in taking over saying, hey, we're gonna compete, We're gonna be good. Well, if you want to compete, you probably have to spend a little bit more money. It's been a sticking point with these guys for several years now, and they have new investors. You can understand why the change was made with Faalve. Tom Polad's knew the investors are new, they are a different group, and he obviously decided I've had enough this. But if you're going to sell yourselves as a competitive team, act like a competitive team. And until then, the Twins, well, their dorks are the weak, but there were remaining dorks until we see a little bit more proactive action from them.

00:23:14
Speaker 3: I could not wait until my dork of the week because this is just comical. You have lived on the East Coast for a long time, you're no longer on the East Coast, but I am currently residing in the East Coast and we're buried here. We are buried under snow. It's cold, it's awful. But the Atlanta Braves can they're not used to this weather in the South, and they decided to cancel Braves beest because of the thread of snow. Well then the Northern National Weather Service in Atlanta wanted folks to send them pictures of the amount of snow that they got.

00:23:43
Speaker 1: There.

00:23:44
Speaker 3: You go, Ken, there's a little sprinkling. I think that's someone's roof there on their car. And peach tree. Look at to cater Decatur just got slammed. Can look at that grill cover? Mind goodness, how could they hope? Oh wow? Not even an inch of snow. And of course they made it a big deal. I understand you're not used to it, but coming from someone that lives on the East Coast, that's embarrassing Georgia. That is embarrassing the Atlanta Braves canceling Braves best fans going nuts. I think they're gonna survive, Ken, I think they're gonna be okay with that snowfall.

00:24:16
Speaker 2: The what do you think.

00:24:17
Speaker 1: They'll probably be okay. But I do understand the Braves because once this happens, and I lived in Baltimore for a long time. Atlanta, granted is further south in Baltimore, even but once it happens in a place like that that is not accustomed to it, it gets paralyzed. So the Braves probably did what they had to do. But come on, that wasn't a whole lot of snow. There wasn't a lot of action there.

00:24:39
Speaker 2: And I understand too.

00:24:40
Speaker 3: I lived in Los Angeles for seven years, and when it rains there, people act. They don't know how to they lose their minds, they don't have any idea how to drive.

00:24:47
Speaker 2: Like I get it.

00:24:48
Speaker 3: I understand, but I had to poke fun of it because we're literally buried under two feet of snow in New England. How the Mariners found out that Brandon Donovan was THEIRS, I didn't. I didn't hear about this, So tell me a little bit more.

00:25:02
Speaker 1: I wrote about this the other day, the day after the trade. And I love a lot of crazy trade stories. I love covering this stuff in every way, but crazy trade stories, crazy free agent stories, those are my favorites. And this one was right up there. So the Mariners were visiting the Washington State Capitol in Olympia, Washington, because the state Senate there was reading a proclamation adopting a proclamation that day in honor of their season and in honor of cal Raley's historic campaign, and their general manager, Justin Hollander, was standing in the gallery kind of the balcony of the State House as this was going on. When on a group text with Heim Bloom of the Cardinals and Eric Neander of the Rays, and of course Jerry Depoto of the Mariners, he got word from Bloom, you're good to go. We have a deal. Start the medicals, which meant start the medical review process, which is the last step toward finalizing a trade. At that point he bolted out there there was a door that was locked. You had to get it unlocked. Contacted the Mariners medical people said, okay, let's start the review on Donovan. Let's go, and that is how the Mariners found out that they were getting Brendan Donovan after all this time. And the funny part, well, one of the many funny parts of this story is that after Hollander got back and the ceremony was over, different aids and senators were gathered around to Poto and Hollander and Rick Riz was there. They're broadcaster Dan Wilson, their manager, and a lot of people were saying, man, it would be great if we could get Brendan Donovan, and Justin Hollanders said, we're working on it. They not only were working on it, they had them.

00:26:41
Speaker 3: That's great. That is a good story. That's a fun one that ends in a good way. And Rick Riz, congratulations, it says last year calling Mariners baseball, So enjoy your retirement year one of the best in the business. Well, thanks everybody for watching and listening. Foul Territory is next. Ag appears in. Eric and Scott Braun are going to welcome in Bob Nightingale brock Stewart and J. P.

00:27:04
Speaker 2: Sears. Fair is back on Monday with Ken Talk to you then,