Jessica Ferguson : Brother in Crisis: A Family's Desperate Fight for Mental Health Support

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, Broadcasting from Music City USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hey,
I'm Tony Mantur. Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Humanity over Handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event Today, rejoin
by Jessica Ferguson, who will share the deeply personal story
of her brother's struggle with mental illness. She'll take us
through the challenges of supporting him, the events in circumstances
that ultimately led to his incarceration, and the family's ongoing
efforts to advocate for mental health awareness and reform. Thanks
for coming on, Yeah, no problem, No problem. Can you
give us a little background and what led your journey
to supporting mental illness? So?
I have a sibling who has severe mental illness and
at the beginning of twenty twenty three, he's been very
it's been with his treatment for the last he's had
it for twenty years, but I mean for the last
ten years he's been stable and fine. In the beginning
of twenty twenty three, we started to notice some changes
going on. He was not quite himself, and then just
kind of navigating the system and you know, trying to
get him help, you know, the next three to four
or five months or so, and just constantly being you know,
involuntary hospitalizations for seventy two hours and then left back
out without any kind of involvement of the family or
any care plan put in place, even though we're begging
please keep him.
He's just not right. And truthfully, you know, we.
Were like they question Massachusetts as always are they harmed
to themselves or others? And of course at the time,
I'm like, of course, I'm going to answer honestly, like, no,
I'm not afraid of him or anything. I mean, if anything,
at that time, I was probably more afraid something was
going to happen to him, like he was hit by
a car or something like that, Like he wouldn't be
paying attention, and he had odd behaviors.
At that point.
He was walking around barefoot, so like I was fearing,
like is he going to step on a nail or
something like that.
I don't know. But anyways, so goes.
Through that whole process, back and forth, back and forth,
gets let out ten day after his third hospitalization in
three or four months.
He's being accused of a triple homicide.
Wow, so what's happening now moving forward?
I couldn't tell you what happened that day, if he
did it or not, or all I can say or
at this point is that he is a cute use
of it.
The silver lining is now they've given him help the
past year.
So if they maybe they'd done all of that back
when we were screaming for them to do it, he
wouldn't have even been in a position, meaning he would
have been like in a hospital to be accused of anything.
So I think that, you know, it's like Massachusetts, and
again I can only speak for massa Chusetts. Almost the
only way to get them help is for them to
get caught doing something or in trouble for doing something.
Then they're fine, like, oh, well, yes he needs to
be hospitalized. Well, yes, he actually needed that months ago.
And when I told you that, he didn't want to listen.
So that's kind of the short version of my story.
That's a very tough situation to be in with a sibling.
Just looking back on everything, I mean, there's just so
much at leading up to it.
Like I honestly I didn't know, like I'm.
The older sister. I mean some people, some family members
are like the parents and they've been in it forever.
Like my relationship with my sibling was I was his sibling.
Seven years ago my mother passed away, So I'm the
oldest sibling.
So I guess I'm.
Taking on that role. And I was just learning as
I go. First hospitalization, I think I thought, oh, they
let him out. Doctors are the experts, so he must
be fine. He's good, Like, of course they wouldn't let
him out. You know, he called me on a Wednesday
in the middle of the day, come pick me up.
Oh okay, they're just letting you out. That's I guess
that's how it works, because that was my experience with
hospitals at that point. I mean, I've gotten colonoscopies before,
and they won't let me drive myself home or let
alone leave the office without someone physically coming up. You
cannot take a taxi, you cannot take an uberg. They're
letting my brother out. Okay, they know they're doctors, are
the experts, right, And that's when I started to realize.
You know, he gets home and my sister she's like, yeah,
he's not.
Okay, so what's his age? Now?
Uh?
He is?
Make me do some math? Yeah for to this right now?
Okay, forty two. So when did this all start?
This happened in twenty twenty three, so he was forty one.
What were some of the events and developments that led
you to believe that he needed help?
The words my sister and I wanted to another, he's
just off and like the final catalyst for us to
call our mobile crisis unit was she called me at
like seven am on a Saturday morning. It was like
he's taken everything out of his room many years ago.
He's had other episodes, you know, again this point, it'd
been about a decade ago. He kind of gone through
this like purging of all of his things, perfectly good thing,
there's nothing wrong with them. And so he completely emptied
out his entire bedroom and was, you know, taking mattresses
outside and just desks everything out out of his room.
And when we asked him what he's doing, He's on
winter cleaning. That point, I said, he was still at
a point where he was agreeable. I said, you know,
why don't we call your care team and see just
have someone come out and talk to you. And he
was fine with that, and Master used to get the
mobile crist ues to come out.
The patient has to agree to it.
Everything a Master steys is very voluntary, like they won't
let you. There's not a whole lot of like involuntary,
so you have to have their buy in so that
point sure they can come Like, you know, he's very
agreeable at this point, and the mobile crisis unit clinician
came out. At that point. It wasn't like take him away,
or I wasn't saying take him away. I was like,
someone just evaluate him. So they were going to evaluate him. Well,
when the clinician got there, he kind of was like,
I'm not ready to talk to them. Took his time,
and then we kind of left him out, gave him
some space, left him outside for about five minutes, and
once we went outside to go get him, he was gone.
And so then it turned into this like, well where
is he?
Where is he?
When the clinician saw that behavior, the clinician made the
determination like he needs to go to based on what
I'm seeing, the little I've seen, he needs to go
and be hospitalized. So the clinician is the person that
pink slipped him. That's what started it. And then even
after that first hospitalization, he was still at a point
mentally where he was agreeable or at least playing the game.
And you know, he allowed us to be part of
the conversations with his clinician and his prescriber. We got
on zoom calls with him and his prescriber, and he was,
you know, willing for us to have this be part
of the conversation. Meanwhile, I'm also emailing the clinician because
they're seeing him for forty five minutes on a Tuesday
and where I'm seeing him all week, and so I'm
emailing them and being like, just so you know, this
is what we're seeing. We're still concerned. We don't think
something's right, and they were kind of like okay, yeah, okay.
And then it got to the point by March that
he had determined. My brother had said, must have told
the conditions. You can no longer speak to them. So
then they were like, we hear you. But unfortunately I
am not able to speak to you about him any longer.
So at that point he kind of cut us off.
And that's when it was sety to climb down.
So after that happened, when did you get involved again
and trying to get some say on what needed to
be done moving forward? You know?
March I kind of like backed off, and my younger
sister was saying, you know, he's annoyed at you being
pestering and you know, meddling, So I kind of backed off.
I was like, all right, I'm gonna give him some space.
Like and again, I'm not a medical mental health expert.
I had no idea how to like handle this. I'm
just trying to take my best guess at things I'm calling.
We have a behavioral health line that I'm calling them,
and they're telling me, oh, take him to this walk
in clinic they can observe him.
I'm like, I don't think he's gonna go for that.
At this point. He's like turned off by anything that
I have to say. Like I'm just a thorn in
his side. I suggested to him as suspected no, a
friend of his suggested to him no, So he kind
of just I would say by April May were like
just kind of like standing by, being like, somebody pick
him up and take him to the hospital.
Again, Like I don't know what else to do.
Because it is hard to be like the one to
pick up the phone and be like take my brother
to the hospital.
I mean, you don't want to be the bad guy
or anything like that.
And at that point, like also like I had no
idea what a Rogers guardianship was or what kind of
options there were other than this eight hundred behavioral health
line that I've heard about and this mobile crisis unit.
Then I had already called once before, and at this
point they had told me that he needs to agree
to it. So I'm like, he's not going to agree
to it, so why am I going to bother calling
them again? So and May the police ended up picking
him up and taking him to the hospital.
In the realms, I don't know exactly what happened.
But there was some incident. We were like, oh thank god,
and it was I'm a near Memorial Day weekend or so.
He was there a little bit longer than just the
three days, and I think it had to do with
like weekends don't count. And then you had a holiday
in there. I think something to that effect. Again, I'm
not exactly sure. So I ended up being there a
little bit longer. I didn't have any direct conversations with
anyone at that hospital stay. Again, at that point, I
was kind of like, I don't know what to do,
Like he's bothered by me. His friend and my sister
were probably more a little bit more involved with that
hospital stay. And by a little bit more, I mean
maybe there was like a phone call, but again, they
released him, sent him a home in an Uber. My
sister had talked to them, but they didn't tell her like, oh,
this is the care plan.
Oh do you want to come pick him up? There
was nothing.
It was just like here's your you know, voucher for
an uber ride to wherever you want by So.
What happened at that at that point, was there any change?
Again, he comes home and we're all we're all like, yeah,
he's not okay, Like no, And at this point he's
quit his job. He had a full time job and
then had also worked part time. After his first hospitalization,
he quit his full time job sometime in the end
in May, so probably after the second hospitalization, he quit
his part time job.
So he's not working.
He has no money because at this point, like any
money he could get his hands on, it was spent
within before he even hit his pocket. And so by
June eleven, I was driving by his house and his
stuff is outside again.
He brought everything outside of his room after the first time.
I went, like, retrieved everything, you know, out from the
garage he put it in wherever he'd put it around
the house. I'd retrieved it all. He had taken his
mattress back outside. So my belongings are outside, and I'm
like one irritated that myself's outside and like what is
he doing?
And I was like that's it.
I'm calling, like this is ridiculous. I called nine to
one one and told him like listen, please.
Come because again that's what I thought you did. I
didn't know. I was ee the mobile crisis or the police,
I don't know.
So they came, he disappeared, They looked for him, and
they got him again and they brought him back to
the same hospital he went to the second time. Again.
There was very little communication with the family, and then
we hadn't heard anything, and so I called like, hey,
I'm just called to see what's going on, I haven't
heard anything, and they're like, yeah, we're releasing him today.
I'm like I'm sorry, what, Like, yeah, we're releasing him.
I was like, no, no, this is and I go
into this hole spiel about this is the third time,
you know whatever months we've already done this devni two
hour hold that he needs to stay longer, like blah
blah blah blah, and they're like, yeah, well, this is
only his second time here at this hospital, so we
can't keep him longer. And I was like, but this
is a third time in a hospital, like I don't understand,
and they're like, well, let me see what we can do.
And I think, you know, listen, I've worked at customer service.
They're just trying to talk me off the ledge. So
they got me off the phone for five minutes. Call
me back and they're like, yeah, we talked to the doctor.
There's unfortunately, we can't can't do anything if you want
to go to and now me mind you, this is
the middle of my work day. I'm sitting in my
callar like talking to them. They're like, if you know,
if you want to file with the courts, you can,
but you have to get a lawyer, I don't know
anything about this, and you're telling me this at the
final hour, that this is my option, Like.
Okay, thanks for nothing. I don't know.
So I was like, I don't even know what to
do with it. I don't even know what you're what
you're saying means.
So with all this happening, not knowing what to do,
what were the next steps for you?
And so then my sister calls My sister lives with
him with her child who's young elementary school age, begging
them please, like don't bring him home? Of course, is
he a danger to himself for others? And she's like,
I mean, he's doing things that could be dangerous.
You know, he's bringing tiki torches into our house.
He's leaving pots on our stove and just forgetting about
them and you know they're burning. Like so, yes, something
could happen. They're like, yeah, no, that there's nothing we
can do.
We're so sorry.
Well, so this is the third time that he's been
in this type of situation. What were some of the
next steps that you took to try and help him.
I think I was just kind of calling this behavior helpline.
All they were telling me was to go to these clinics.
I was like, well, that's not an option, and I
think that I just was.
At a loss.
I didn't know what to do at this point, hadn't
really been connected. I tried calling out some point Nammy
heard they had a family and to family class. But
I had missed the start of it because I didn't
it started in March, so I didn't get any information
that way, and I really didn't hadn't dug into Nammy
and all the different resources that they do have. Again,
I'm learning this like mid crisis, in the midst of everything.
I'm working full time, I have my own life, Like
I don't know. So was I doing anything profound at
that point? Probably not. But again I didn't necessarily think that,
Like I wasn't afraid that he was going to hurt himself,
like I said, more of a had odd behavior, you know,
like again walking around barefoot or you know, going to
open houses for million dollar homes. He doesn't have a
penny to his name like that, but telling me he's
but then telling me, Jeff, I think I found the one.
This is the house, this is going to be the house.
And I'm like, just you know, obviously not in reality.
So when he got out and ultimately he was accused,
So what happened then, Now you're dealing with the legal system.
That's a completely different system than dealing with the hospitals.
After being accused.
I mean, we're in the midst of it now. The
system is a mess. It's a complete mess.
He sent to the State Psychiatric Hospital when he was accused.
Police took them to the hospital because they were like, oh,
he needs to be hospitalized.
And from the hospital, he was not there for seventy
two hours.
They took him to jail, and then from jail he
was acting psychotic and you're like, we can't do that,
but this is not us with in twenty four to
forty hours being in jail, he's sent to the State
Psychiatric Hospital, which for men, is run by the Department
of Corrections.
It's not run by our Department of mental Health.
The Department of Corrections hires a contractor to handle the
medical needs.
So he was sent there and he.
Was there for eleven almost twelve months. He was found
not confident to stand trial for the first eleven or
so months, so he was receiving care. I mean, he
was medical compliant, like he was, you know, not confident
to stand trials. It doesn't really mean like are you
acting crazy? Just can you aid in your defense? He
was found not competent, but at this point we're able
to visit with him. We'll have meals with him, like
a visitation. Over time, got much more closer to his baseline,
much more recognizable as who we know.
That sounds a little better. So how did that work
out and what was the journey like from that point?
He was then found confidence stand trial, which then means, oh,
back to jail for you.
While they claim.
There's mental health care there. The mental health care for
him consisted of once a week a clinician stopped by
his cell for ten to fifteen minutes and that was it,
and he got his medication every day he came in.
There's intake unit that you go into the intake unit
for seventy two hours so they can observe you, especially
when you're coming from the psychiatric hospital. So he was
in a cell by himself for the first seventy two hours.
It was very difficult to understand. Like the prison, the
actual jail operates completely different than the psychiatric hospital. The
psychiatric hospital again is overseen by the Department of Corrections.
The jail is overseen by the County sheriff department. So
figure out this whole new system, how things work.
All these things.
The clinician talks to him and says, you know, here
are your options of where to go from this intake unit.
We have a mental health unit that you can go to.
The mental health unit is dorm style, one big.
Room, forty some odd beds, everyone living in the same space.
So how did that work out from there?
Depending on your personality, that sounds wonderful or that sounds awful.
For his personality, that sounds awful, He's like, Noah, our
personalities are very different and that sounds awful to me.
So it was either that or stay where he's at
in this room by himself. So he was like, I'm
all set, I'm gonna stay by myself, which meant he
was very isolated, very like not healthy for anybody, any
human being, Like he didn't have interactions with anyone. He
was in the cell by himself essentially twenty four hours
a day, whereas before at the stick at to hospital
he could walk around, there was TV. Could he had
a TV in his room. This place he wasn't allowed
to have a TV in his room. He had a
little tablet that he could get movies on, but for
some reason, his tablet never worked for movies. He ate
all of his meals in his cell by himself. He
didn't even get to go to the cafeteria. It was
just awful, awful in my eyes. The alternative also sounds
awful to me. So I don't know the luster of
the well after four months there, I don't really know
how it happened. If he must have raised his hand
and said I want to be reevaluated for competency. And
again this also this time like I'm advocating more and
like talking to his lawyer and saying, I begged them not.
To move him from the psychiatric hospital. I begged them.
I said, it's not right.
This is where he's gotten well, he's about to go
through a very stressful time.
He needs support. Those supports are not going to be
in the jails.
You know.
I was on the phone with the director of Clinical Services.
I was on the phone with the state hospital. I
was just talking to anyone I could talk to. Biit
hot because I know that some people have been able
to stay at the psychiatric hospital.
But I don't know what the magic button is.
No one is telling me what the magic button is.
I know he was unhappy he when he got to
the jail.
He asked me, please just don't meddle too much because
this is jail and I don't want to be like
retaliated against because you're being you know, pop Pop, Pope, Pope, Pope, Pope, Pope.
I respect his wishes and I really like laid off
the family and gate person at the jail just kind
of irked me within the first week. Anyways, when I
emailed or asking her a question, she flat out told me,
please don't email me this much. I am only one person,
just call me. And I was like, can you say that, like,
don't email you? So I talked to the director of
medical services at the jail once.
She was very nice, but didn't really get anywhere with it.
So he must have raised his hand and got reevaluated,
which meant that he was sent back to Bridgewater and September,
they took about I think forty days to evaluate him
and then he was deemed not competent again. So he
is committed to Bridgewater again for up to six months.
So he's there now. I guess he's better.
I guess, but it's hard to stay like hopeful in
these situations.
I mean, his life has been on hold for over
a year and a half, and it's like, you know,
you don't have any end in sight. The possibilities of
what could happen are terrifying. So is he in a
good place mentally? Hobly not?
Who would be?
What's the legal end look for you? Now? What type
of lawyer do you have? Is it a specialty lawyer,
public defender? What kind of lawyer is helping you through this?
Just a public defender.
I'm not sold on him, but I don't really know
what other choice we have. I mean, obviously he has
gone through whatever hoops he needs to go through because
he's a private lawyer that I guess. You know, Master's
contracts out their public defenders. I guess, so he's gone
through whatever hoops he has to go through to have
cases of this caliber. So it's not that I don't
think that he's not knowledgeable in law.
I'm just not.
Convinced he's truly truly knowledgeable in what mental health means
and serious mental illness means.
I think that you know when we.
Ask him, he's like, well, every homicide case basically involves
mental health. And I'm like, okay, sure, you're probably right,
but I don't get the imprest that he's going to
bat for him like one hundred and fifty percent, Like
why is he not fighting to keep him at Bridgewater
and raise his hand and explain why.
And I think he just doesn't truly get it. He
will just read when.
I bring it up. He just regurgitates the law to me.
And I was like, you're not understanding me, like the
supports are not there, and he's just like, well, the
jail has been deemed acceptable, and I'm like, okay, hear you.
I hear you. So I've had some conversations with him.
I feel like I'm in an odd place, like I
try not to meddle too much and I'm trying to
still get my brothers buying because I can be part
of the conversations with him and the lawyer. I think
my brother at this point hasn't wanted me to be
and I think don't know if it's because there are
things that he doesn't want me to see or hear
or whatever. And I'm not saying I need to be
part of, like the what happened conversations, but like maybe
some of the strategy conversations I could be part of,
or like, even if he's deemed competent, can a request
be made into the judge for him to remain where
he's at while he's awaiting trial. I think that I'm
I'm more outspoken than my brother, But he also doesn't
know anything. I mean, he's been all this happening, he's
been thrown in this hole. He doesn't have access to Google.
He doesn't know like what his options are. He's just
knows what he knows, and which isn't a whole lot
because this is in our world.
So I'm still.
Trying to convince him that, like I at least should
be part of those conversations.
Sure, that makes perfect sense. It's always good to have
an advocate on the outside. Now, what about your sister?
Is she part of the conversations as well?
She is to an extent, but I mean she has
a kid, and I feel like I just have a
little bit more time on my hands to deal with this,
and so I think she plays the younger sibling role
very well. Like somebody else will take care of that.
I'm just so farther down the road than she is.
You know, if she wants to know something, she'll ask.
Otherwise she just kind of stays out of it. Of course,
she keeps in touch with him and talks on the
phone and writes some letters and that sort of thing,
but like in terms of the advocacy and figuring it
out and all of that, that's not really her.
Now, how is he compared to when he first went
into the hospitals and kass the jails system. Is he
better worse? How is his mindset now?
Yes? Yes, yes, yes, I think that they have helped him. However,
I will say that the State hospital he's at.
What issue I will say we're.
Seeing is that you know, he's had this illness for
twenty plus years, so he's been through lots of therapy
and lots of whatever. So I kind of liken it
to a school system like he done kindergarten level work.
He's done for st grade level work, and I feel.
Like the state hospital really only goes up to like
grade three, and he's more like a seventh eighth grade level.
So in terms of the therapy there, he's quite frankly bored.
It's hard for him.
To engage with it because and I guess you know,
they played to the lowest common denominator and so some
of the denominators are pretty low to a certain extent,
they aren't able to service at the level that I
think he probably needs to be serviced at at this point.
But it's far better than what he would get a jail,
which would be nothing.
So well, at least that's a good thing. Now, what
would you like to tell our listeners that you think
is very important that they need to know about the
situations you're going through, so if anyone else is going
through the same situation, it could help them a little.
Well, I mean, I think in hindsight, I wish that
I kind of knew all this before you're in the
middle of the crisis. So learn everything you can before
there's a crisis happening, because it's really hard to learn
on the go. In Massachusetts specifically, we're missing a key
tool in our toolbox, which is AOT, the assistant outpatient Therapy,
which would allow for more involuntary and the courts to
be involved in more treatment plans that are followed by
the courts because having these people go to these hospitals,
whether even if it's for three days, two weeks or whatever.
I mean, I think he got released with a thirty
day supply of medication.
Was like told good luck. I mean, that's not going
to help anybody.
There needs to be a better systematic care plans in place.
So I guess to other family members, I would say,
you know, just educate yourself as much as you can,
because you never.
Know when you're gonna might need that need to know
what to do.
Like those behavioral helplines, while they are certainly a tool
in the toolbox when you're dealing with someone who's in
psychosis and well past understanding that they're sick, you know,
our senators and lawyers need to realize, like those helplines
fit a certain segment, there's another segment afterwards that still
needs help, and they need help just like somebody with Alzheimer's.
You know, you find your grandma walking outside and her
pajamas and no slippers on, You're gonna do something. You're
gonna tell them you cannot be outside. You're going to
involuntarily take them inside. The same should be true as
someone that's in psychosist their human beings, you know, and
their their brains are flexing and not not flexing correctly,
and they just need some support and not to be
left like good luck. You know.
Hope it works out for you.
Yes, absolutely, And when you get thrown into it, sometimes
it can seem like it just happened overnight when it didn't.
But it can be the big unknown and you just
don't know what to do. It can be so overwhelming
to the families and the loved ones that's trying to
help them.
Yes, agreed, very overwhelming, very very overwhelming.
I don't know if he would have agreed, but maybe
before all this had happened, just having you know, myself
or my sister be healthcare proxy because most doctors in
hospitals protect themselves by hip hop. Sorry hip hop, I
can't do it, and they hide behind the hippocurtain. So
HIPPA needs to be rewritten, and I've heard that it
has been. I guess we're gonna probably need to educate
everyone that has been rewritten or rewarded a little bit
to better help people in situations like my own. So
if someone's in psychosis or not mentally well, then yes,
you can talk to family member or the appropriate person
regarding their care. Then really the families are the ones
on the front lines. These doctors need to partner with
us and realize that, like we know our loved ones best,
we're not just saying these things to be you know, annoying,
like we know them better than anyone. So just partner
with them and helping them, because together we can get
this person on right path. People with seriousnes on us
are able to live normal lives. They just need help
getting up when they fall. That's all.
Yeah, absolutely, well, this has been great, good conversation, good information.
Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no problem.
I appreciate you talking to me, and thanks for getting
the word out.
Absolutely, it's been a pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking
the time out of your busy schedule to listen to
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send them to tonymantor dot com contact then they can
give us their information so one day they may be
a guest on our show. One more thing we ask
tell everyone everywhere about why not me, the world, the
conversations we're having, and the inspiration our guests give to
everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.