Superintendent Series: Josh Mahar on Wild Horse and Sand Hills

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Toro. For more than a century with cutting edge turf equipment and irrigation solutions, Toro has had your front nine covered and your back nine to two. In fact, Toro's always had your back period. Toro is as committed to your long term success as tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down to top notch customer support from Toro and its dedicated local distributors, both of whom are passionate about delivering turf equipment and irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor today. Today's episode is with Wildhorse Golf Superintendent Josh Maher. Wildhorse is a public golf course in Gothenburg, Nebraska, on the edge of the Sand Hills. It is phenomenal. I went there a couple weeks ago and definitely one of the best public golf experiences in the country. You gotta go. Josh has been there since day one. He's got a lot of interesting insight and growing grass in the sand Hills and he was also involved with sand Hills growing, so he was a It was a great conversation, awesome guest, And without further ado, here is Josh I.

00:01:22
Speaker 2: Miss the green. For example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find my ball in a.

00:01:28
Speaker 3: Fried egg Friday egg the dread and Frida egg Frida egg, Frida egg egg Frida egg brid egg.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.

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Speaker 1: Is uh, there's we always my other podcast talk about this. Uh. You know there's a guy that put on his bucket list deer hunting in Iowa on the PGA tour. Is that really that big deer hunting in Iowa?

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Speaker 4: The white tail hunting in Iowa. Yeah, that's where they grow the monsters. So yeah, that'd be bucket list for a lot of hunters. If you're a white tail guy, that would be Yeah, that would be pretty top notch.

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Speaker 1: But they're really strict about who can go.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's hard to get it's hard to get a tag for sure.

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Speaker 1: You're you like your big hunter and fisher, right, that's why everybody tells me.

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Speaker 2: A reputation precedes me. I guess.

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Speaker 1: So when you're not taking care of golf course or with your family, you're you're hunting and fishing.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Probably more of that than I should do, but that's what I like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you go? Is it around you or where do you do? You go? All over?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Mostly, you know, mostly around here, but I go all over. I go to Colorado over Wyoming to go l hunting and and uh yeah, make a trip or two out there to do some other hunting, but mostly around here.

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Speaker 1: Where are you from?

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Speaker 4: Originally I'm from Chapel, which is just down I eighty to the west, two hours so back towards at Denver, where you came from the first time going to sand Hills.

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Speaker 2: So yet just two hours west of here.

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Speaker 1: It was so closer to sand Hills.

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Speaker 2: Actually, this is closer to sand Hills. Yeah, this is a little closer.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, straight west from here, but it's not too far from sand Hills. Yeah, so yep, Western Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: Boy, how did you get into a turf in the first place?

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Speaker 4: Like a lot of people, I don't think that was my first choice. I started, like a lot of guys, I think, did I did it as a summer job because I liked the golf and so I thought I needed a job, so I'll hang out there and work and then play golf in the afternoon or whatever. So started when I was whatever sophomore or junior, sixteen year old kid in Chapel with the local mind hooler.

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Speaker 2: That's how I got into it. So then when I went to college, I didn't have any intention to do on the golf course thing.

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Speaker 4: I was going to be a biology something.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really know what I wanted.

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Speaker 4: I like the biology part of things, so I was in that for a while. Then I was going to teach, decided I didn't want to do that. I was still working at the golf course in the summers, going back to Chapel, and I don't know, one evening I must have had kind of epiphany.

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Speaker 2: I went out there some evening. I can remember I standing on the third t.

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Speaker 4: Just looking around, and I thought, this is something that's really kind of cool. It might be something I wanted to do. And so that next fall I changed semesters and got into the horticulture turf program, and that's how it went from there.

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Speaker 1: I guess what school did you go to.

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Speaker 2: Then I went to the University of Nebraska Lincoln.

00:04:49
Speaker 1: Okay, yep, it's the Huskers. They're back at action.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, finally we had to wait till everybody's half done before we get to play football.

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Speaker 2: But we're back, I guess.

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Speaker 4: So, so yeah, I lived through the glory days of of Husker football.

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Speaker 2: I was in school for all three.

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Speaker 4: Of those, well two of the two, and I just graduated when the third national championship occurred. So yeah, it was there, Eric Crouch, that would have been the Tommy Fraser years.

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Speaker 2: Yea, Eric Crouch was a little later.

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Speaker 4: That's yeah, Tommy Fraser years, Scott Frost years. So yep, that was the glory days of Husker football. So once I left, it was all downhill.

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Speaker 1: I guess some way I feel about my Alnai's basketball program. My freshman year was the year that they almost went undefeated and they got to the national championship, and then it's basically been downhill since we're on that we're at it. I guess this year, you know, last year we were, we were pretty good. In this year, hopefully we're as good as everybody expects us to be. So I feel I feel you that that sense you're still waiting for Husker football to come back.

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Speaker 2: We are. One of these days, hopefully we'll be back, and I don't know when that's gonna be. I might be dead by then. The way it's going, it's a slow process. So we still we still left Oscar football.

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Speaker 4: You know, as we're rabid fans, so that's we live and die by that.

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Speaker 1: What uh, You were part of sand Hill's growing construction team. What where in your career were you at this point? At that point in ninety five, it had you had to be pretty recently out of college.

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Speaker 4: Right, Actually, I was still in college and I was working. I was working in the greenhouse for one of the church professors, doing some of his research there. And so one day I walked in to talk to him about doing whatever I need to do that day for his for work, and there happened to be a flyer posted on his door, and I said something to him about it. It was sand Hills was just looking for anybody I think that'd come out to Mulling, Nebraska at that point. So I saw it and I asked him something about it. Said I didn't really know much about it, but I know they're doing this golf course. Of course, I'd heard of it, and you know, it sounded like it was gonna be pretty special. So I thought about it for a day or two and then decided it's not It's not like me to get out of.

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Speaker 2: My comfort zone.

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Speaker 4: But I thought, well, that'd probably be a good way to explore golf course management more than just a little nine holder and chapel. So I thought, well, let's go for it. A guy we've now become good friends at Corey crandall. I didn't even know him at the time. He was in the turf program too, but he was a year ahead of.

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Speaker 2: Me, so I didn't even know him.

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Speaker 4: But somehow he was interested, and our advisor hooked us up together, and so we both decided to be a good opportunity to go out there and made the call and they said come on out. So that's kind of how we got our journey out to sand Hills. So we went out there and when was that ninety three or ninety four, I can't remember that summer, and that's when they did the whole pretty much well, they had grown in some of the fairways the year before, but pretty much all Green's Teas and most of the fairways were done that year when I was out there as a quote untorn intern, I guess, so that's how I got to know, you know, Prairie golf for Sanduel's golf type stuff.

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Speaker 1: So being somebody from western Nebraska, you know, obviously stand Till's was being built, what was the you know, you said you had heard of it, what was the you know, what had you heard? And you know what was you know, what was the word on the street, so to say, yeah.

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Speaker 4: You know when when it was going on, everybody, you know, I think there was two schools of thought.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was like, well, you know they'd.

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Speaker 4: Heard the big names that had been thrown around, you know, the Bill you know, Bill Koor and Ben Crenshaw and and you know obviously Ben Crenscha. I'm most everybody who knew golf knows Ben at that point. So you know, that probably run more true with a lot of the layman people than Bill. Bill's name did, But on the golf circles, obviously Bill's well known, so you know that that kind of thing. You know, everybody's like, oh wow, that's really going to be quite a golf course. And you know, for western Nebraska, that was you know, unheard of to have something of prominence like that in the golf world. You know, we're just not known for that, or we weren't known for that at that time. And then of course you had the other side that was full of pessimism, was like, what in the world are they thinking plopping a golf course out in the middle of nowhere. No one will ever come see it, No one will I mean, that's gonna they'll build it and they'll close up shop in two years because they won't have any money.

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Speaker 2: So I think he had both sides of that, you know, going a little bit. So definitely it was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's probably a lot more people thought it was a crazy, crazy idea than they thought was ever gonna work.

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Speaker 1: Most of most of the best ideas are most people would think are see.

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Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I suppose letters a lot of crazy ideas that failed. But you know, sometimes the crazy ideas work too.

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Speaker 1: So I've worked for this company. We had a guy that invested in it that was a you know, one of the most prominent investors, and he told me, they don't invest in anything unless one of their partners thinks it's the worst idea ever because if it's generally like a great, widely accepted idea, somebody's already tried it and failed. You know, like if everybody thinks this great idea, then somebody there's a reason it hasn't happened yet. So Sandhill's golf was Sandel's golf, perfect example. Like half the people thought it was absolutely ludicrously stupid what Dick youngs Cap did. So being being a western Nebraska what what were your first impressions when you got out there and saw what was going on.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it was I think this, you know, the scale of place.

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Speaker 4: I'd been familiar with the Sanduels, but you know, the scale of it was.

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Speaker 2: Was pretty grand and still is.

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Speaker 4: I was pretty I mean, I think I was pretty naive, and you know, I'm just a twenty year old dumb kid going out there.

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Speaker 2: And and you.

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Speaker 4: Know, I remember Keith Nordick said that he was a superintendent at the time. First day I got there, he said, walk out on the back nine and start flagging out heads. And I started walking out there, and I was like, wow, I'm just really out here in nothing land. And you know, granted I'm from a small town, and that's you know, Chapel was a thousand people, and so I know small town culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what western Nebraska.

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Speaker 4: Is, but it's it's I always say about Mullen When people ask me about it, I said, you know, they're like, wow, it's really a small town. I said, yeah, it's a small town, but it's not like the small town I was used to. The isolation out there is different then you get in other small towns. You met other you know, the small town atmosphere, but the isolation there makes it a different kind of a small town.

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Speaker 2: Feel, I guess.

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Speaker 4: So I think that was maybe the one thing that struck me the most, was just the you know, the isolation of it all. And then as far as the golf course, you know, as we got into it again, I think I was just naive a little bit and just you know, I was just put my head down and did what they told me to do. But you know, as a time went on, you started to realize what it was going to be.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: So that's your real lik you outside of just your hometown course, your real first exposure. What do you what do you look back on it? Do you ever think about, like think, God, I was so lucky because I learned, like, what are there any things that you look back on and think like really shaped your career going forward from that project?

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Speaker 4: Oh, most definitely it was I mean that one decision that I made, you know, and I didn't even really know it was what I was getting into, you know, like say when I saw the flyer on the door and I said, well let's try that. I mean, that was I mean, that changed my whole I mean, my whole career path. I mean, if I hadn't have done that, I would have been, you know, totally different. I would have never ended up here for sure. So that that just one decision changed my whole career, my whole life journey really by doing that. So you know, once I got out there and you know, the people that I met, and Dave Axelent and Dan Proker were both out there at the time, and obviously they came down here and did wild hoorse and got to know them, and uh, you know, without without going out there, that would.

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Speaker 2: Have never happened.

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Speaker 4: So that, you know, that one decision, just as a twenty year old, pretty much changed my whole whole life, which is kind of weird.

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Speaker 2: When I think back about it day to.

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Speaker 1: Day obviously, you know day to day superintendent most of your career now, but you know also grew in Wildhorse What what are your favorite aspects of being a row in superintendent versus the day to day superintendent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll say I did learn a ton by going to sand Hills and watching the grow in there. I mean, I don't think if you haven't been around to grow in before doing your own grow in, I think you're really really going to struggle. Maybe maybe not, I know, I maybe maybe there's people that are smarter than me that wouldn't do that, but I know I would have struggled.

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Speaker 2: Just seeing that helped a lot. You know.

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Speaker 4: I think that the other thing that was unique about sand Hills a little bit about wild Horst was you know, the whole this was the first time anybody built in the sand Hills of Nebraska. So you know, that's that's a lot different than doing it you know, in Lincoln or Illinois or Kansas or you.

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Speaker 2: Know, wherever else. I mean, it's kind of a unique environment.

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Speaker 4: And not to say that there aren't unique environments that other people, you know, have golf courses on, but you know, that was the first time anybody had been out.

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Speaker 1: There, so that it was kind of uncharted territory, no.

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Speaker 2: Doubt.

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Speaker 4: So we I mean we we made a lot of mistakes at sand Hills, and obviously those helped me. And when it came down here, I didn't make those same mistakes. We probably made some, but we didn't make those same mistakes again. But yeah, that was a huge, huge learning curve there.

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Speaker 1: What's the example of just say, like a mistake that was made obviously based.

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Speaker 4: I think we just misjudged the you know, and I'm from West Nebraska, so I know the weather out here, but I think we misjudged, you know, how difficult that could be during to grow in with the wind and the sand moving, and you know, it was just you know, I think it's just a learning curve on you know, how to deal with some of that stuff and how to keep young grass moist and alive and keep it from getting beat on by the by the sand when the wind did blow. So I think, you know, just being more conscious of that. I mean, they were real conscious about not tearing stuff up, you know, not you know, not disturbing anything that didn't need to be disturbed. At sand Hills, because they knew the sand would move, So I think that was critical. They were pretty smart about that. But you know, the stuff you did tear up, you had to learn how to get grass on it back quickly, and so that was Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we just did things. Yeah, I think we I just think we learned a lot about how to water, how to fertilize, you know, how to grow grass in that kind of environment when it's.

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Speaker 4: You know, real young like it is. And when we were up there, it was about the first we just started putting seed down on one green and two green up there at sand Hills and the Fairway, and we hit a spell of weather of thirty mile an hour winds constant and they didn't go down at night, and so it was just it was at a week and even people that are familiar with the weather out here remember that.

00:17:04
Speaker 2: Week as being you know, sustained winds and just.

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Speaker 4: Hot and dry, and and you know, we had hay bales up there trying to keep the sand from blowing across one green. We just had we'd stationed one person out there day and night, just trying to get some water to you know, keep the sand from blowingmore and anything and keep the you know, and I think that at that point Dick Young's cap was about ready to pull the plug and thought maybe his crazy idea that we talked about was too crazy because it was a tough week.

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Speaker 2: But once we got through that.

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Speaker 4: We've kind of you know, settled into I think that taught us a lot about how we were going to have to go about things from there on. And we kind of settled into you know, being able to do things well and got the rest of the greens and tease playing, which is, you know, a pretty ambitious project for you know, for three four short months. So but yeah, the experience up there definitely.

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Speaker 2: Helped me down here. I mean, without a doubt that.

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Speaker 4: Was you know, it was still pretty young kid when they came down here, and that helped a lot knowing knowing how to deal with those types of situations.

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Speaker 1: Gothenburg is right on the very edge of the sand Hills versus Mullins, like right in the middle of it. Is there was there anything different about the challenges at wild Horse Is in the site and just the weather in general versus going an hour and a half west to Mullen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is it is different. You know, it's similar, but it's still quite a bit different.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: The sands down here are a lot dirtier, I guess, I'd say, you know, a lot more clay and silt in there, and this is still sand makes up the majority of the of the texture, but it's a finer sand than what you have up and up in sand hills. So you know, that changes your management a little bit, you know, because you do have more water holing capacity then up there, which is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but it's you know, the soil down here is, although it's still sandy, is quite a bit different from up there.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is as you get down here, you get closer. You know, you're in the valley.

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Speaker 4: You have a lot of corn. So as far as growing seasoned conditions, you know, once the course was established, you know, we have a lot more humidity than they probably do up there. Not so much that we have a lot of disease pressure like you say would have an eastern Nebraska, but it does change, you know, the weather pattern is a little bit different. As far as the humidity, I'd say it's just a generally a drier climate up there. So combine the drier climate and the coarseness of the sand up there makes it quite a bit different than down here, I guess as far as growing conditions are concerned.

00:19:55
Speaker 1: You said you worked with Corey. He built a golf course out there, right, He.

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Speaker 4: Bought a golf course, and he's yeah, he's a golf course owner. So he's moved up in the ranks. No longer just a lowly superintendent. But yeah, he bought when he left sand Hills. He was superintendent at sand Hills for six, seven, eight years, I don't really remember exactly how long. And he decided he wouldn't to buy a golf course in Ogohola, which is just west to Hear, about an hour and a half. So he bought bought that golf course. So yeah, he's a golf course owner. So Corey is one of the Yeah, one of my really good friends. Like say, we went out there together to sand Hills, the two of us, not really knowing what we got into. And I remember a couple of times, Yeah, we went back to the trailer house that was parked, you know, ten feet from the railroad tracks, and the three would blare by at night and we were like, what in the world have we gotten ourselves?

00:20:52
Speaker 2: Into out here. But so we you know, we live.

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Speaker 4: We when we did that, I think that built a bond between us. We didn't even know even though we were in the tour program at at Lincoln together. We didn't know each other until we until we met out there and started working at sand Hills.

00:21:10
Speaker 2: So we developed a good bond there.

00:21:11
Speaker 4: And yeah, he's he's doing well with that out there at all.

00:21:15
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting to be all the golf courses that kind of popped up after sand Hills out there, even just small ones that where you know, they had nine holes in an otter box and the golf holes are built by you know, uh Dan and and Dave and in cases where you've got this nine hole course that's you know, built by some world class architects and uh, you know nobody even Vans the pro shop.

00:21:42
Speaker 2: Yep. That is interesting.

00:21:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right now that you say that Corey helped with some design at I believe it's Stapleton and Thedford both, which is you know a couple of little course courses that you yeah, you mentioned that popped up, and then there's one that hyanas Pelican Beach, and yeah, some others that you know that was you know, it goes kind of.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Harkens back to the old old sand greens.

00:22:06
Speaker 4: Courses that some of these places kind of had and they didn't really realize that they were built on pretty good ground for golf courses. So yeah, that's interesting that now that the big guys have.

00:22:17
Speaker 2: Come out here that have kind of embraced their own little mind.

00:22:20
Speaker 1: Hooleer now again, yeah this hopefully next year. I want to do just to I want to play every golf course at the sand Hills. It just see them all sand greens on and said, what's it like playing on sand greens?

00:22:34
Speaker 4: And obviously I've never actually played on sand greens.

00:22:39
Speaker 2: You know, there were some of those around when we were in high school still, but we never played on them. So yeah, I don't. I have never played on a sand green.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: Actually, And yeah, I was talking to you probably don't like code it. Well he was tell me you gotta go play this place because the sand greens and see the sand greens.

00:22:59
Speaker 2: I don't know, like I know of him, but I do not know him, but yeah, it would be an interesting experience for sure.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: Yeah. So with with wild Horse, how did you get involved with the the growing and working there. Ivan. It's got a unique story with you know, the group of farmers wanting to build it. But how how did you get involved in Ivy. I think there's a you know, I've heard different stories about how you know, Dan Proctor and Dave Axelon got involved also, Yeah.

00:23:34
Speaker 4: I mean my involvement stems Dertnell directly from Dave and Dan and them knowing me at sand Hills. They I think that the group that got together to build a new course here at Gothenburg.

00:23:48
Speaker 2: I think they had almost all but hired.

00:23:51
Speaker 4: Uh, Marty Johnson to do, you know, who had done quite a few courses around Nebraska. And then uh, I believe it was Terry Healy was a.

00:24:07
Speaker 2: Fraternity brother Dick Young's Cap, and so they.

00:24:12
Speaker 4: You know, Chris Heally was one of the prominent members and trying to get this thing started. And so the connection there was to get Young's Cap involved, and so I.

00:24:22
Speaker 2: Think he I think he actually came.

00:24:24
Speaker 4: Down and visited the property and said you don't need Marty, you need Dave and Dan. And he got on the phone with Dave and Dan and said you need to do this and got them here and they said, well, this is this is what we'd like to do, and the and yeah, the group of people that were in charge here said all right and hired them. And like I said, once they were once they were on board, I don't know. The contacted me and I was up at sand Hills being an assistant then and thought this would be a good chance to become a superintendent, and came down and I was, you know, was happy to work with Dave and Dan. I mean without what they you know, they pretty much have given me everything in my career.

00:25:10
Speaker 2: I mean, that was a great chance and.

00:25:13
Speaker 4: I'm glad they took a took a risk on me and two guys that are really great guys.

00:25:19
Speaker 2: And I hope we've you know, kind of.

00:25:24
Speaker 4: You know, enhanced what they've once they did what they've done here and have taken care of their property.

00:25:30
Speaker 1: It seemed like you have. From my experience, I've never played, even even recently verified greeds that were so firm and putted so well. If you it was that, it was incredible. I was blown away by the golf course. But one thing I I read a little bit about is the kind of community aspect of the whole construction process, where where the town really embraced it and became a part of it. Was that it was that true. It was a big help and talk about you know kind of how how that went, you know, the different things that they did.

00:26:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was you know, it was a community project.

00:26:12
Speaker 4: And you know the interesting thing about Wildhorse, you know, we've it's evolved into you know, something that's you know, I guess kind of nationally known and even you know, worldly known because we get a lot of people from you know, we'll have forty to forty five states represented every year of people that come here.

00:26:30
Speaker 2: I guess what's I found interesting about the community thing was, you know, they just had a.

00:26:35
Speaker 4: Nine hole golf course that was in the floodplain, and and they just talk about when it would rain, they couldn't play golf for four days because it was too soggy. So their idea was, well, let's go up on the hill here and get out of the floodplaine and build themselves a golf course. I mean that was the humble beginnings that they had.

00:26:56
Speaker 1: I mean they had no extremely simple you know, like our golf course, floods we need, we don't can't play golf for a couple of days. I mean, that's brilliant.

00:27:08
Speaker 4: So I mean that, you know that, I think that's I think that's one of the greatest things about this whole project was, you know, most most golf courses that are getting set to be built, and there's not so many being built nowadays, but you know, that was always the saying, well, we're going to build the next top hundred course, or this is going to be better than that course.

00:27:28
Speaker 2: Or you know, the next risk is going to be the next great thing.

00:27:32
Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of that thrown around with a lot of golf courses that were built, and this, you know, this was project had none of that pretense at all.

00:27:39
Speaker 2: It was just like, we need to find a better place to golf, so and you know, nothing new, you know.

00:27:46
Speaker 4: I think if they would have hired Marty, I mean I think they would have had a golf course, I don't think, you know, it would have been the same that Dave and Dan could do.

00:27:55
Speaker 2: And I think they got lucky to.

00:27:56
Speaker 4: Get them down here that you know, to take advantage of the property and you know, make the most of it, so you know, once uh, you know, I think it was it's just that idea that they just wanted something better than what they had, and you know it's kind of grown into this.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: Whole you know, like say world renown. We know that World Renown, but naturally no golf.

00:28:16
Speaker 4: And and so you know, and so when they started, you know, it was kind of humble beginnings, and they generated money from the local people for the stock offering through stock offering and uh a lot sales to you know, to get the project off the ground. So most of that money, you know, is from you know, the local people, either golfers or golf or non golfers like and then uh, you know when we started, when we started building, you know, started tilling up or mowing out fairway lines and tilling up fairways, you know, for seating. They would just Dave and Dan would find a local farmer that was down the road that could come, you know, bring their disc over and disc up the you know, the the fairway lines for us. And and you know that's how you know, that's how they kind of got involved and stayed stayed involved with the with the project. Was you know, helping through that because you know, obviously it's a big farming community. So if if one guy couldn't do it, we'd get the next guy down the road to bring his disc over to help disc up five Fairway or whatever. So so you know, I think there was but you know, they did. They they helped the project along, you know, obviously financially because that's where all the money came from, was from local town people.

00:29:36
Speaker 2: But they also did you know, some of the work on the course.

00:29:40
Speaker 4: And also you know, when we're putting up the clubhouse, they had you know, they would help raise the you know, rafters and do all that and and put some time in the construction of the clubhouse too. So so yeah, it was and I think you know, now obviously you know, there was probably some naysayers then that was like well I don't know if that's going to work up there, But you know, I think the community realizes, you know, what a benefit it is to you know, to the to the town now, you know, financially, you know, we get a lot of people through here, you know, staying, eating and whatever. So I think, you know, people really have a lot of pride in it, you know, and being reckoned, you know, it helps being recognized, you know by some of the golf magazines and such. I think that really cut people's attention, like Wow, that's really something special out there.

00:30:26
Speaker 2: So you know that was It's good.

00:30:28
Speaker 4: To see the hard work that they put into you know, you know, pay off and now it's a real source of pride.

00:30:35
Speaker 1: Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Toro top notch custom fit technology helps tour pros feather and iron to tight front pin. Now, using the technology on Toro's new greens Master Flex series walk greens mower, superintendents can dial in that same exceptional precise feel of operator performance on even the most contour Greens. The greens Master's bail feathering feature that's the operation slow down or speed up by putting more or less pressure on the bail and stay hands on even through the tightest turns. The melding of the operator machine continues with the telescoping handle that ensures perfect harmony between mower and operator. Tall or short, and the handle's rubber mounts have just enough cushion to prevent any hand movement from influencing the cut for putting surfaces so pure they'll make a tour pro tip their cap. Trust the Toro greens Master, Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local distributor to schedule a demo. Now back to Josh Maher. Obviously, land is relatively inexpensive, and the you know, the cost of maintaining golf course in the sand Hills keeps it down. But I was astounded by the all in construction land number. Could you share that on the pod?

00:32:00
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:32:00
Speaker 4: I think I think really when you break it down, it was probably eight or nine hundred thousand, and then clubhouse costs would be on top of that, you know, another three four hundred thousand. So yeah, I mean the one one to one three number gets thrown around for the whole project, including the clubhouse. But yeah, I would guess the you know, the course construction was definitely under a million, and you know, that was at a time when irrigation costs were still you know, there's kind of a time frame shortly thereafter where irrigation costs went up pretty substantially, both you know, in terms of supply and then also in terms of actual actual installation. So we kind of got in just before some of those costs went up a lot, which you know, in this case is really the you know, the majority the cost. I think that was six hundred thousand if I remember right, or Somewhere in that range was the irrigation, you know, and and Dave and Dan they always like to say we work cheap, and that's what that's what they did. I mean, they were just making a you know, there's no designer fee. It was just you know, pay pay us for the hours we're out there for the work pretty much. So you know, they they really got they should have got paid more than they did. But I mean think they think they were glad to do it.

00:33:30
Speaker 2: So obviously.

00:33:30
Speaker 4: You know, there's no no million dollar design fee or anything like that, like say, it was just us working out here. And then you know, the construction is as simple as could be. You know, there's no d nine cats run around here. You got a four tractor and a and a tiller, you know, a five foot tiller. You know, after the after the farmers disc it up, we'd till up the rest of it and you know, break up the sod and then you know the rest of the most of the construction on the greens was you know sand pro and you know a dump truck full of sand here there. So you know, it was it was relatively cheap. Like I say, the irrigation was a huge cost So there's.

00:34:12
Speaker 1: Like a Mike mccarton who works for Tom Doak. I had a great quote with me. He said something, he said, good architecture doesn't cost any more than bad architecture. But the more I've thought about that quote, I have started to kind of fall under the line of good architecture actually costs less than bad architecture. From a maintenance standpoint, both sand Hills and Wildhorse very little of the land's been disrupted. What advantages of how that construction process went helps you maintain the golf course for less well?

00:34:52
Speaker 4: And you know, it's kind of like when you work with the land, you don't end up creating features that aren't maintainable. You know, that's kind of the land is already. You know, Mother nature kind of maintains it in a way. So you know, if you try to you know, steep steep, flash faced bunkers, you know that that's you know, when it rains, those are going to wash out.

00:35:15
Speaker 2: I mean mother nature didn't. You know, you don't see those around in mother nature.

00:35:20
Speaker 4: So you know, I think those kind of things, you know, just lend itself to it, you know, just lend yourself not to have to do extra work. And obviously the climate, the climate and the soil that that lends itself to cheat you know, I say cheap maintenance because you know, you don't have a lot of fun side the grass. You know, the grass loves the growing medium once it's established. You know, getting to establish can be a little bit difficult. But you know, we're we grow grass out here in Nebraska. I mean, look around the sand tills. What's growing out in the dunes there. It's it's native. So the grass is you know, grasses in general like sand and you know, good good water quality and good fresh air. I mean that so that part of it, you know, makes growing grass in some regards a little bit easier than other places.

00:36:15
Speaker 2: In some regards it can be a little tougher because of the harsh environment. But in general I think that just you you don't need as many inputs. It just naturally grass wants to grow there. And and the features.

00:36:26
Speaker 4: You have you don't have a lot of you know, you don't have a lot of extras. You don't have flower beds, you don't have trees, you need trim and or leaves to be rached, and you know, so all those kind of things start to add up and costs and you know as far as maintaining and more work and so you know, it just it just leads to a simpler way of maintaining the golf course just by you know, the natural you know, topography that you're dealt with.

00:36:51
Speaker 1: I guess from the construction standpoint, Are there any any story any holes out there in particular where you kind of were scratch your head with they said they wanted to do something or otherwise you know, turned out better than you ever imagine them turning out.

00:37:07
Speaker 4: I can't think of any right off hand. You know, there were you know, they pretty much that they were pretty at least when I came down here, they had pretty much determined the routing and there was only that I can even remember. There was only one or two one one spot where they changed a little bit. They were going to go from seven to t over towards eight Green as a part three, but then they ended up going back, and so a lot of those things they kind of decided on. You know, you hear about the different Matt constellation map at Sandals, and I'm sure Dan and Dave had some of those in their mind different holes, But uh, I.

00:37:47
Speaker 2: Can't think of anything.

00:37:48
Speaker 4: I can't think of anything right off hand actually, and then they ended up making the ninth toll that comes right back towards the clubhouse, and I actually can kind of think that far three works out pretty good there, be better.

00:38:00
Speaker 2: Than I thought it was gonna But uh.

00:38:03
Speaker 1: It's a neat green. It's that's a cool part three. It's just uh, it's you know, people will people probably might say it's just oh, they just needed to get back to the clubhouse and they just plopped it there. But that much like Crystal Downs to nyth it it works so perfectly because it's just you know, it's right there, you're right next to the clubhouse already, but it's the green is so incredible there. It just all falls off on the right side.

00:38:30
Speaker 2: Yep, it's a yeah, it's a real sucker.

00:38:32
Speaker 4: And you know, I ever see a lot of balls down there in the bottom because you know that left hand bunker, you know, scares people over there the right and if you get over right too far, then yeah.

00:38:42
Speaker 2: It's it's just a yeah, it's it's a good hole.

00:38:45
Speaker 4: So and then you fall off into the Valley of Sin over there. So yeah, it's a pretty neat little part for three So.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: What uh what being there since? Growing? How's the course evolved since nineteen ninety nine.

00:39:00
Speaker 4: I think from a maintenance standpoint is you know, when we first started, we were still under the premise of, you know, this is going to be just for the local folk that are going to come out here and play golf, and you know, we're not going to really have a whole lot of revenue to work with. So you know, maintenance was, you know, really minimal. I mean, you know, it.

00:39:23
Speaker 2: Was just do what you can with what you got kind of thing. You know.

00:39:28
Speaker 4: Obviously, as we revenue has been you know, generated, we you know, we're a lot more refined than our maintenance approach now. I don't think, you know, by no means or we you know, we have a small staff and we're not doing a lot of extras, but it is it's afforded us the ability to do things that I wasn't sure we'd be able to do, you know, maybe fifteen years ago, just because of the revenue. And I don't know how that affects the golf course. I suppose over time, I think it makes you better, you know, I think just what were the equipment we use and you know, the chemical inputs and fertilizer inputs, all those.

00:40:07
Speaker 2: You know, I think we're we're able to do what we want when we want, and you know.

00:40:11
Speaker 4: I think that helps as far as a maintenance is is involved.

00:40:17
Speaker 2: As far as the golf course is concerned.

00:40:19
Speaker 4: You know, we haven't done hardly any changes at all, which I think is a testament to Dave and Dan and the routing and the finished work that they did to begin with. You know, I get, I get that question pretty regular, well we're gonna do different.

00:40:36
Speaker 2: We are you gonna?

00:40:36
Speaker 4: You're get I'm like, well, I don't think there there's no need to, you know, change the screen or redo this bunker. You know, we've added a couple of teas here there just for length, but those don't really get used that much. So you know, I think I think it's a real testament to what they did. Is I think they just got it right the first time, and we haven't had to do much as far as that's con or.

00:41:00
Speaker 2: You know, we've we've tweaked.

00:41:02
Speaker 4: Irrigation, you know, because of irrigation at that time. We put in the irrigation and then they kind of were the grass lines and that sort of thing, you know, weren't even established because they were still a little bit you know, working those out when some of the irrigation went in. So, I mean that's been the biggest change as far as that is concerned on the you know, the maintenance side or you know, the design side is tweaking some grass lines and getting the irrigation lines.

00:41:29
Speaker 2: To fit those.

00:41:30
Speaker 4: But like, I think it's just they did things right the first time around, and so we haven't had to do a lot of changes, you know, otherwise.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: With the you know, everybody always says, oh, sand Hills, you know, greatest place to grow you know grass. What what are some of the toughest aspects of your job on a day to day basis or you know, an annual basis in the sand Hills? What are the unique constraints of a superintendent there?

00:42:01
Speaker 4: I will say, you know, like I say, grass really during the season, the grass growing is it's pretty easy.

00:42:09
Speaker 2: Don't don't tell don't tell.

00:42:11
Speaker 4: My bosses that, but that you know, it's it does grow good grass. But that's I mean, I like to think that, you know, we're able to take it to the you know, very top level. You know, as far as surfaces are concerned because you know, the climate and the in the grass or in the soil conditions, the water are all good. So you know, we can take it to the very top level, I think during the season, which is which is nice to you know, try and you know, get it to the be the very best her for round, you know. And I think if you listen to any of the sand Hills superintendents, they'll all say the same thing. And or any Western Nebraska doesn't even have to be the sand Hills, of course, was Western Nebraska, Eastern Colorado, Western Cans as any of those places in this beld along here.

00:43:01
Speaker 2: You know, it's the dry winters that we worry about and.

00:43:04
Speaker 4: The desiccation issues that you can have during the off season. That's you know, that's when you know turf can suffer the worst. And and that's so that's you know, easily the most concerning time is the winter. You know, we hope for snow and and you know we do winter watering, top dressing, anything to you know, to reduce the desiccation issues we might have in the in the winter.

00:43:30
Speaker 2: And you know, some winters we get plenty of moisture. It's fine. Some winners we have to work out a little bit more.

00:43:34
Speaker 4: But but as far as the season goes, it's you know, really pretty good.

00:43:40
Speaker 1: So like an ideal late fall is a rainy one, right, because you want to get as much moisture into the water because if it because that when it goes to bed, when it gets obviously you have very harsh winters. Explain that a little bit.

00:43:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, when you you know, we want to go in as well as possible, you know, and lot most of the time the falls are pretty dry here to fall in winter's dry spring and summers wet around here. That's just the natural cycle of the rainfall. So normally falls are pretty dry. And so we you know, when we get ready to put it to bed, which will be you know, easily blow out just before Thanksgiving. As far as irrigation, so that last week we pretty much just water the heck out of it, get it as wet as we can, and yep, then just wait for mother nature. Hope she gives us some moisture through the winter, which which which you really don't need a whole lot, but you just need, you know, some to kind of keep that crown moist. And you know, obviously you know, snow cover helps a lot, keeps the wind off of the off of the crown and the and the turf.

00:44:51
Speaker 2: So yep, it's just kind of a you never know what you're gonna.

00:44:54
Speaker 4: Get with a winter out here, Like say, some winters can be good were good for turf, which is you know, cold and snow and the snow stays on the ground. You can get others where it's you know, dry and windy and warm and fifty degrees every day, So you never know what you're gonna get.

00:45:09
Speaker 1: Do you have any I just imagined winter wateringg like standing out there with you know, this is just my mind, my mind standing out there with like, ah, you know, water and stuff, and it'd be like, you know, be in my like my snow jacket, like standing out there. Do you have any any story about winter watering? Is that? Is that like the the the thing you want to do? Least it seems like to me it would be the worst job in the world.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: It is.

00:45:38
Speaker 4: It is the worst, and it is the worst job in the world just because you're like, why why am I having the water this grass during the winter?

00:45:44
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean.

00:45:45
Speaker 4: Maybe it's just because you get lazy and you think, oh, winter's my downtime.

00:45:49
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to work as hard.

00:45:51
Speaker 4: But and there's some place we're we're we were you know, smart enough to put in a frost free line, so we have a hydrant teach green so we can run water, you know, with a hose, basic garden hose off a hydrant to those to those greens, which makes winter watering even easier than standing out. You know, there are some places where they have to truck water where they have a big tank and actually stand there and hold.

00:46:14
Speaker 2: The hose in the water, which would.

00:46:16
Speaker 4: Suck even more than just dragging a hose around a hydrant and starting the water.

00:46:22
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it can be.

00:46:25
Speaker 4: It just yeah, it is one of the you you nailed it exactly right, It's one of the jobs. And you're like, this is just sucks. I don't know why it sucks, but it sucks.

00:46:34
Speaker 1: So what's like the coldest weather he put out winter watering?

00:46:39
Speaker 4: Well, usually usually it's the thing is when it's uh, when you do winter water, most of the time, it's you know, fairly mild for the winter.

00:46:46
Speaker 2: So you know, usually you know, most.

00:46:49
Speaker 4: Of those days when you're winter water you'll have a stretch of weather where you're like, oh, we.

00:46:52
Speaker 2: Can get some good water down.

00:46:53
Speaker 4: So a lot of times it will be you know, forty five fifty five degrees, so it's not too bad. We started to try. We've well, we bought a We decided we were gonna get smart. We were gonna try to make snow to cover our greens. After we you know, about three years ago, we had another pretty tough winter where we lost some grass. But so my bride idea was to get a snowmaker and try and make snow so you know, to supplement the winter watering and cover the grass a little bit more so, and that can be you know, obviously, to make snow, it's got to be cold.

00:47:28
Speaker 2: So when you're not like.

00:47:29
Speaker 1: A machine that like a ski resort.

00:47:32
Speaker 2: Well it's yeah, to get into that level. We're not to that level yet.

00:47:36
Speaker 4: We're just like in the little, you know, backyard home snowmaking mode right now with a little mister thing and you get your air and your water and you mix the ear and water gother to make snow. You know, you probably have seen it. People do it in their backyard. So that's the level where we're at now. So and actually I was investigated the snowmaking from a from you know, from the ski resorts and how they do that, and that's actually quite a bit more involved process than people would think. So that's probably not gonna happen here. So but I figured we bought the snow maker, and we haven't had to make snow yet. So we've had a couple of pretty pretty good winters as far as turfif goes. So but yeah, when you do that, it's got to be cold and that yeah, cold, cold and wet, cold and wet and wind.

00:48:24
Speaker 2: That that makes for you know, pretty chilly hands.

00:48:27
Speaker 4: So so hopefully I don't have to do that this winter.

00:48:31
Speaker 1: So you got to hire like an intern for that.

00:48:33
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, that's right.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: So you you haven't had to make the snow yet, you haven't.

00:48:42
Speaker 2: It's oh, you know, we we've experimented.

00:48:44
Speaker 4: Obviously, we've done it, but we haven't had to do it on a you know, a large scale because about the time we got making snow, the first year it you know, it actually snowed on its own, and then yeah, the last couple of years. So since I guess it's been a good investments because we bought the snowmaker and we've got you know that that did it for us. We got snow the last couple of years, so we haven't had to.

00:49:06
Speaker 1: Work out how do you like, I'm just curious, had you heard from somebody else that made snow and it had it work or how did you just or was it like, oh, we could just make snow.

00:49:18
Speaker 4: Well, well, you know, obviously there's people that you know, there are people that cover greens. You know, then that's been you know, standard practice in a lot of places, and like sand Hills, they cover all their greens. And I've never really been a huge fan of greens of greens covers because it's hard to see what's.

00:49:39
Speaker 2: Going on underneath there.

00:49:41
Speaker 4: And I know they've had good success at sand Hills, and so we've started covering some of our most exposed spots, you know, just here and there. But one, obviously greens covers are pretty expensive, and two, I don't hardly have a staff in the fall to get them on there, you know, in a timely manner. So I just got I don't know, I was thinking, what's you know, I've always thought, well, when when does my turf come out the best? It's when it's under the snow cover. So I got to thinking, well, why not.

00:50:12
Speaker 2: Just make snow.

00:50:13
Speaker 4: That just seems logical if that's the best time your grass is is under the snow. And you know, I thought, well, we'll do two things that obviously insulate the greens, and then you know, when it does get warm, instead of having that greens cover on there.

00:50:30
Speaker 2: Which you know, can it can heat up.

00:50:32
Speaker 4: You know, we get a lot of warm sunny days in the in the winter actually, and you know can heat up under that cover, which I you know, is kind of what I don't like about the greens covers. I thought, well, when it gets warm, that would just melt the snow and you know, we'll have we'll have the moisture available to the plant then.

00:50:49
Speaker 2: So I guess that's kind of how it evolved. But I hadn't heard of anybody trying it.

00:50:53
Speaker 4: And I mean I've been known to try some pretty pretty dumb things.

00:50:57
Speaker 2: Most of them don't work, and this will not.

00:50:59
Speaker 1: Give I'm another example this one.

00:51:01
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if this one's gonna work either. But well, I mean, like I say, I haven't really got to try it much. When when we have done it, it makes it and it works right, it It makes nice snow. But if you if you think standing out there watering greens is a pain in the butt, snowmaking on a five thousand, the green takes quite a while lot longer thought of that.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: Man, what have I gotten myself into? So I don't know.

00:51:27
Speaker 4: I thought, I think I've created more work for myself by doing that. So hopefully the snowmaker just stays in the shop. It might be one of those crazy ideas and never never really gets off the ground.

00:51:38
Speaker 1: So yeah, I hope for snow, but part of me just wants to know, you know, if if you don't get snow and you make the snow and it just turns out like you could be on a whole Western you know that that Eastern Colorado, Western Nebraska, Western you could completely revolutionize how they how they go into winter.

00:51:58
Speaker 2: And yeah, I say, I don't think anybody wants to put that much work into it.

00:52:04
Speaker 1: What are some ideas. One of my favorite things about you guys as superintendents is like all the little tests and little things that you're doing that you know, nobody at the golf course even really knows about. Like I was down at Prairie Dudes last week and they've been tested out bermuda a little bit. You know, what are some things that you've tried, you've alluded to it that maybe didn't work or have worked, and that you've instituted.

00:52:35
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess.

00:52:38
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if I've got any that I can say work really good, but I've tried.

00:52:43
Speaker 2: I'd like to try a lot of different.

00:52:44
Speaker 4: Things just to just to see what they do.

00:52:47
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times we get into.

00:52:48
Speaker 4: The same old what We're going to do it this way, and that's all we do thing, which I gotta admit I'm kind of that way.

00:52:54
Speaker 2: I get into my comfort zone.

00:52:55
Speaker 4: But it's always easy to find a spot here there to you know, try a new chemical or you know anything. At one time, I kind of thought round up was going to be the way to kill the poem. And I've experimented with roundup in different rates and different timing and a lot of that, and people thought I was crazy for spraying round up on turf, which in the end they might they might be right.

00:53:21
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:53:21
Speaker 4: I thought I thought I'd kind of figured out what was going to work, but in the end it really didn't. So I think there's maybe a potential for someone smarter than me to figure out how to use it and eliminate your poe problem. But that's probably one of the you know, one of the ones that I when I tell people that, they look at me like I'm crazy. But uh, I can't think of any others right off hand that, Like I say, I'm always trying this or that or different combinations of things to see if they'd work, I guess in small doses.

00:53:57
Speaker 1: So what's for people that might want to visit it out there? What's the best what's in your opinion, the best time of year to go play wild Horse.

00:54:06
Speaker 4: Without a doubt, September year, and that's easily the best. The turfs you know had all if we you know, had all year to groom it to the best it can be. The community starts to drop off. It's not as hot. Generally, you're gonna have pretty consistent weather. Then you're not gonna have so many ups and downs, so as you can run into September. You can get some pretty breezy days, especially towards the end of September, but you know, breezy is supposed to be link skull, so that makes it more interesting.

00:54:41
Speaker 2: But then obviously the native grass is.

00:54:44
Speaker 4: That it's you know, is the prettiest, you know, the contrast between that and the green fairways.

00:54:49
Speaker 2: So yeah, without a doubt. September is ye as good as it gets.

00:54:55
Speaker 1: Early October was was great for me last week, you.

00:54:58
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah October October still can be good.

00:55:02
Speaker 4: You just run into a few more iffy days. Especially the first first week or two. October is usually pretty good. And then you know, we usually you know, I think.

00:55:12
Speaker 2: You're here, Well we just aerated, you know.

00:55:15
Speaker 4: Usually about the tenth October we kind of quit doing you know, quit doing maintenance so to speak. You know, it's kind of it's just on its own then right now, don't know daily knowing, you know, so conditions you know, probably aren't mid season form by then. But yeah, October, first part October can be can be pretty good too. You know, I guess a close second would probably be oh maybe mid June. But you know, it changes, you know, it kind of changes through the season and how the golf course plays a little bit, you know, April and May it can be a little turf can be a little spotty, just you know, depending on the winner.

00:55:55
Speaker 2: But you know, and you get a lot of win that time.

00:55:59
Speaker 4: Of year, so that you know, that makes a golf course play different than once you get into July, it gets to be pretty calm, humid, sticky, normal Midwest type weather. Even you know here, like I said, it's a little different than as you get further west, a little bit the humidity can be Can you know, just change the way the golf course plays, you know, just plays softer and you know, less wind, so it seems seems even to play softer because you don't have the wind bounce in your ball around too so and then you get back into the fall and you you know, that gets to be a little bit drier, a little more bouncy type of game. So you know, it kind of changes through the year, is how the golf course plays.

00:56:43
Speaker 1: Uh, if you could take one of the let's just say, one of the greens and throw it in your backyard, which one would would you? Would you pick?

00:56:54
Speaker 2: Just the green itself? Probably? Yeah? Ten?

00:57:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, ten greens, stataip green, Yeah, potato chip green. I'd say, kind.

00:57:07
Speaker 1: Of lots of potato chip greens out there.

00:57:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are kind of you know, they're they're modeled after I think Dave and Dan have a you know, definite affinity for prairie dunes. I think a lot of them are similar to that with the roles, you know, lots of internal humps and rolls like like prairie dunes has. There's a little bit of tilt to these greens, but not to the extent that sand Hills probably has. But these probably have more internal internal roles.

00:57:43
Speaker 2: More so than sand Hills. If he was going to compare to the two.

00:57:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have a they're a little bit more trying to little a little more. Uh, they aren't as understated as sand Hills. They have a little bit more I would say, a little a little more character. Sandhell's screens are great. I'm not I think that wild horses greens are almost maybe it might be better.

00:58:10
Speaker 2: So the greens here. I agree this. I think this is some of the best work on greens.

00:58:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're they're good because it I think, I guess what you're I always say, I'm talking about sand Hills and these greens. Sand Hills, like I say, these greens have a little bit of tilt to them, but not so much. Sand Hills gets a lot of their movement out of their tilt of their green with a you know, probably less internal contours in sand Hills greens, you know, as far as the you know, little mounds and and bumps in them. I think we have more of that here than sand Hills does, where sand Hills gets more from their tent or their tilt.

00:58:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would agree, you know, I think.

00:58:54
Speaker 4: That's now I've only been to Prairie Deans once, but that's kind of what I remember from Prairie Dans was the role holiness of their of their greens. So yeah, I think, yeah, they're they're really good greens. I mean, they did they did not show.

00:59:10
Speaker 1: They're awesome greens. I I the golf course is awesome. It's I should be on everybody's bucket list. You got a favorite stretch of holes out there. They're you know, a three or four hole stretch that every time you get on it, you're just kind of.

00:59:26
Speaker 3: Like, you know, yeah, you know, I really like uh yeah, I mean, if i.

00:59:37
Speaker 1: I've gotta have I'm having you pick your pick your favorite kid here.

00:59:41
Speaker 4: Fifteen is probably my favorite hole, so and that fourteen before that. You know, I mean it's a pretty easy par five, but uh, I mean I might I might go fifteen sixteen seventeen because I think seventeen is a really good par five that makes you, you know, your second shot, makes you think a lot about what you're gonna do there.

01:00:04
Speaker 2: So and obviously the fifteen is the short part four which you can you know, short power four has a raise fun and that that one's a good one.

01:00:11
Speaker 4: Then sandwiched in between there is just a ballbuster on sixteen with a you know, usually get long four against the wind with a perch green, So that one's that one tests your metal there, so awesome.

01:00:23
Speaker 2: Definitely, fifteen sixteen seventeen is the way to go.

01:00:27
Speaker 1: That might be the you're gonna play three holes. Sixteen might be the toughest screen on the course.

01:00:34
Speaker 4: It is, and it is, and we we've had people that want to, yeah, bulldoze that and make it easier, a couple of our members, so so yeah, that's yeah, that one gets to them. It is kind of a false front perched up high, catches a lot of wind, so yeah, it's a tough one.

01:00:54
Speaker 1: All right. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming out. Did just a wonderful job out there. It's uh, it's an amazing place and like I said, everybody should go see it. Even you know, like I I was talking to Kyle, who is obviously the biggest sand Hills fan, but I told him, you know'd I'd be stopping here every time I went to sand Hills without a doubt, and you know, I'd play a good chunk of routes there versus sand Hill's that if you gave me ten and uh, it's it's an amazing, amazing place that everybody's got us to go see.

01:01:29
Speaker 2: Well, sure appreciate it. I'm glad you were able to stop by. So yeah, we'll be back. It's been a lot of fun here for twenty three years.

01:01:37
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's uh, yeah, we liked it. We we like it because you know, everybody can come play. Some people aren't gonna make it the you know, sand Hills obviously, but everybody can come out here and hopefully enjoy what we you don't think is pretty good prairie golf. So yeah, it's it's nice to cater to that sort of crowd that every man can come out and play. So yeah, and we've been been supported by a lot of those people, so that's been good.

01:02:04
Speaker 1: M It's accessible to everybody, you know, from from price point to you know, you could go play it any day of the week, all right, exactly, so, thanks so much.

01:02:16
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

01:02:19
Speaker 1: I hope I didn't ask any stupid question.