Dusty Baker's 50-year Baseball Odyssey

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to All the Smoke Baseball. This is a very special and exciting interview for me. I'm glad we finally got a chance to do it someone that is from the same high school. I went to the same high school as as this legend did. And uh, you know, I used to hear a bunch of stories about him when I was in high school. And then obviously, you know, I had a terrific nineteen year playing career. One of the greatest managers of all the time. Uh, people call him the Forrest Gump of baseball. You just got a very interesting year round for a lot of amazing situations and people. Welcome to the show. Dusty Baker's thank you, thank you, thank you for spending some time. You were just in town for the Michael premiere.

00:00:46
Speaker 2: Like that, it's great. It's one of the best I've ever seen. Plus plus, you know Graham King, you know he's a possed my car when I was.

00:00:54
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember you're telling me the yeah yeah.

00:00:56
Speaker 2: So now he's a you know, fans producer. And I tell people all the time that I brag on you because, like, you know, you broke my records.

00:01:05
Speaker 1: In high school. I came through and got all Dusty well and football faseball. Yeah, not the baseball stide, but the basketball football stuff. Do you remember, And I don't know if you do. So you came to our school one day for an assembly and I'll suspended. I remember that was for the fight with the KK that the kid that was called racially harassing my sister and I beat him up and I got suspended. And then Dusty comes and speaks at our school and they said, like, where's the kid that's breaking all my records? And they will started laughing because I was at home suspended.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like you know, we're in a Giants caravan, okay, And so I was like, man, who's this little little dude around there breaking all my records?

00:01:40
Speaker 3: And somebody yells at it.

00:01:41
Speaker 2: He suspended and see and see I'm lucky I didn't get suspended because see, you know when I went to Saying High School, you went to my family's only black family round.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: There's probably about seven of us when I was there.

00:01:54
Speaker 2: Well there's two me and my brother. Wow, and so like, you.

00:01:57
Speaker 1: Know, how did you navigate that?

00:01:59
Speaker 2: I was fighting too?

00:02:01
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:02:01
Speaker 2: I know? And uh, you know, my dad used to always tell me, hey man, you know, what would Jackie Robinson do?

00:02:06
Speaker 3: I got tired of hearing that. But I it taught me.

00:02:08
Speaker 2: How to deal, uh, you know, with society, and it taught me how to deal you know, you know, with white people on a daily basis. And you know, I learned some valuable less. It was tough. It was actually tougher on my on my sisters. Socially, I think that it was on me and my brothers. And uh, but the fact that see I came there my junior year, you know, from Riverside. Yeah, and see my dad was Bobby Bon's little league coach, and uh, you know, like I followed Bobby around. And the reason why I played every sport because I was trying to be Bobby Bonce. I was the baddest dude you know that I you know, you know, can think of. Plus he went to the state track meet. He had the state you know, wrecking the long jump. So I tried to go, you know, do the same thing. I went to state track meet, but I took like eighth and ninth.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: Bobby had to how much older it was Bobby than you.

00:03:03
Speaker 2: Bobby is four years older, okay. And so I was with Bobby all the time. And uh, you know Bobby's mama, you know, baby sat me and his sister Rosie. You know, like she baby sat me. Rosie was was was batter than Bobby Man. She was on the Yeah she's on the Olympic team, you know, with Wilma Rudolph and all that kind.

00:03:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was cold man.

00:03:27
Speaker 2: And uh, like I said, you know, I had some great role models growing up, and especially in the town of Riverside, uh, because the whole town is about fifty thousand that time, and so everybody played ball against each other all the time. You know, whether he liked the guy or not, or whether he's the same neighborhood as you, you're gonna play against him, you know, sooner or later. So how's life.

00:03:52
Speaker 1: You've been on the road a little bit, and thank you for making some time for us. You said you got to stop by San Francisco before you get back to Sack. How's how's the special going for the Giants? A little less stressful?

00:04:02
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I mean it's going pretty good. I mean, I mean, you know, think about it is. I didn't mind the stress of the games. Okay, you know, the game's fun. You know where the stress comes in is is you know, when you're dealing you know with upper management. Sometime when you're in middle manage, people thank you in charge, but you know, everybody.

00:04:23
Speaker 3: Got to serve.

00:04:24
Speaker 2: Somebody got a balls and you know, and then playing verbal dodgeball, you know, with the media every day, and especially in baseball, you do it every day. I mean you're doing twenty five thirty you know, interviews a day, times one hundred and sixty two games, times spring training, you know, and so therefore, you know, one day you make a mistake and say something, or you tell the truth and say something, and then boom, it's all over you know, America and the whole world right now. So that's where you know, that's what a stress about.

00:05:01
Speaker 3: You know.

00:05:02
Speaker 2: Once the national anthem was sung, that was the greatest time of the day for me because I was in charge that I didn't have to you know, justify anything that I did, uh, you know until the three hours of the games, and then it gave me a little tight to make up something in case something.

00:05:18
Speaker 1: Didn't work in your element.

00:05:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, baseball has a real.

00:05:23
Speaker 1: Momentum right now, fan interested survey surging. You've seen the highs and lows across six decades. What would you make of this era right now that we're watching today.

00:05:34
Speaker 2: Well, the air today, you know, it's a good air. Baseball's popular, it's very popular. The only thing that I really kind of dislike is the fact that, you know, most of the former players that played can't get jobs interesting and so therefore, you know, the instruction isn't what it should be, uh, you know, because like you know, kind of like you probably you'd rather have a guy tell you, you know, what to do or how to think, or how to react if you blew a lay up at the end of the game than some guy that never played exactly. And that's the same way in baseball. And you know, there were times, you know that I can remember when I was a hero. There's a time between the ball, you know, went between my legs. Is the time I struck out at the end of the game or time I hit a home run. And guys have come to me, and what helps me as a manager. They'd come to me and say, Dusty, how do I deal you know with this or that? And as a manager or a guy that's played, I realized how hard the game is to play. I mean, this is a tough game and to play it every day, just that these guys make it look easy, you know. I mean in the stands, you've probably been up there, like, man, I could hit that guy. He ain't throwing nothing, you know, and so it's like it's a situation.

00:06:57
Speaker 3: I would just.

00:06:59
Speaker 2: Like for baseball to hire the guys that have played the game, because if you played this game to any level, you've left some knees, some elbows, some shoulders or something on that field out there. If you dig that field up, there's some bones out there, no question. And if you haven't left any bones out there, you know, it makes you more of a taker than a giver.

00:07:22
Speaker 1: And I think it's hard to respect that side too. Obviously, you know, you want to give everyone respect, But to your point earlier, someone who's done it. To me, that voice is a lot heavier and understanding. You'll run through a wall for a guy that's been out there and done it. One topic that's been brought up, you know, since we kind of launched this baseball side, is the lack and the decline of the black baseball player. When I grew up, you know, I started kind of watching baseball right right as you were finishing up with those young a's teams. And but you saw a lot of black stars that you could look up to and and made me want to play baseball. Why do you feel like there's such a decline over the last twenty to thirty years in the black baseball player.

00:08:02
Speaker 2: Well, you know when I first came up, well as a kid, you know the reason I we're number twelve is because of Tommy Davis. I grew up wanted to be Tommy Davis. I had heroes in every sport. I had Elton Baylor and basketball. I had Gail Slayers and football. I had Tommy Davison baseball. I had Bob Hayes and track. You know, I was always somebody other than me, and you know, they they motivated me. And you know, my dad had us all, you know, my brothers and I watching all the Jackie Robinson movies and stuff. And you know there was a time when we took CPA Ebony Pittsburgh Carrier all black magazines and papers, and every year they would have the amount of black players that were on each team, and so and so I always, you know, really liked the Giants, Cleveland Pirates. You know, because they always had the most black players. But you know, since I think since college has baseball has become so popular and they're giving away scholarships. You know, they're kind of using college as a as a minor league.

00:09:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, as a minor league.

00:09:13
Speaker 2: So you know for players, and I mean, let's face it, I mean it's it's better now than it was a few years ago. But most of the time the scholarships, you know, for black players or athletes went to football or basketball. You know, they didn't go to baseball. And I think it's going to help now, especially that they have the ability, whether they give it or not. I think they can give thirty full scholarships now in baseball, where before I think it was twelve and a half scholarships. So you know, if you're going to UCLA or let's see, one of these big schools, you know, you're getting a partial scholarship, and then you know, somebody got to you know, somebody got picked up. Most people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:09:55
Speaker 1: You broke into the major leagues in nineteen sixty eight with the Braves as a nineteen year old young man. Paint the picture of what it was like being a young black man in the South in the sixties.

00:10:05
Speaker 2: Well, first, first, I was hoping that I didn't get drafted by the Latter Braids, and I was going to go to college to play basketball. My dad wanted me to go to Universus Santa Clair, which I didn't really want to go to because I was another predominately white school, just like the high school I had gone to. And my parents got separated that year, and so the Braves drafted me. I prayed the night before that I don't get drafted by the Latter Braids because that was in Vietnam's hot race rise, anti conformity to about everything in our country.

00:10:36
Speaker 3: And I got woke up.

00:10:37
Speaker 2: That morning, congratulations, you're member of the Leta Braids. And I said, Lord, you didn't hear me, and hear me and so and so they flew me and my mom to La. I worked out at Dodger Stadium, and I ended up signing it in Digiah Stadium simply because Hank Aaron promised my mother that he would take care of me as.

00:11:00
Speaker 1: If I was his son, you know, like, was he there for the workout?

00:11:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, well, actually the brazier playing the Dodgers, and so you know, they put me on the bus. You know, I had a little duff with that little bag and I sat next to Hank Air and in Felipe Loo who else on that team of Bobby Yucker, Joe Torri. They had some bad dudes that I had been reading about, and here I was sitting on the bus with him as a as an eighteen year old man. And then I signed uh. But you know the guys that took care of me were Cito guessing who? When I signed. I went to Austin, Texas, and my first stop was Low Rock, Arkansas, and I was going to get off and SEEO, so where are you going? I said, we do get me some need? He said, no you? He said, you said, no man, you one of the way dudes get your food for you because you know we can get off the bus. And here I was coming from Carmichael, California, where we're only black family to all of a sudden I couldn't go or do what I wanted to do. But my roommate, my first roommate, Ralph Alec data ga see and he went to uh Grambly and so he knew what it was about, you know, how to deal in the South. He helped me and Sito helped me, and uh, you know, Hank helped us all.

00:12:22
Speaker 1: Before we get to your your your friendship and brotherhood with Hank Aaron, what was it like, I mean, was it discriminating in restaurants hotels? Would you guys face that where you couldn't stay in hotels with your with your white teammates. Did you meet some of that or no?

00:12:36
Speaker 2: No, I can't. You know, Jackie changed a lot of that, you know what I mean? And uh, when I came to Dodgers, they were there were times I had discussion with Jim Gilliam and uh, you know don Nucombe about what Jackie were taking when he wouldn't take and uh you know, uh you know there were times when they were trying to have a Dodger stay in a separate hotel. Jackie said, no, we're not going to do it, and least Scott the traveling secretary, said no, man, we'll change the team. But a lot of times it takes somebody white to change it from one side to the next side. And so you know, when I got there, I couldn't you know they would never room or white and a black player together if there was an odd number of a players. The only way you can get a yeah, I mean, the only way you can get a separate single room was if there was an odd number of white and black players. And so you know, there were times when they wouldn't rent to us in different places, you know, namely, they wouldn't rent to us in Florida, so we had to stay with a whole family. They wouldn't rent to us in you know, Greenwood, South Carolina. You know when I was down there playing in sixty eight, and so you know, we didn't have a TV in our place.

00:13:49
Speaker 3: We stayed behind Mama's.

00:13:50
Speaker 2: Soul food kitchen and so good, oh we ate good. And see we had a cemen floor. All the blacks and Latin stayed there together. And one of my teammates, Bob Didier from the South. You know, he's pretty cool dude, And so I go with his whole family to watch TV. But the only thing is, I you know, they had the sundown law, and I didn't know nothing about this sundown law, that's what you're talking about. And so so at dark at nine o'clock, if he was black, he had to be off the off, off the street. That's a law. And so gun smoke would come on and at quarter nine I had to leave.

00:14:31
Speaker 3: I never sad.

00:14:34
Speaker 2: Next day, next day what happened, and and and and the whole family would tell me, hey, look man, take off, don't you be.

00:14:43
Speaker 3: Don't you be run.

00:14:43
Speaker 2: Too fast because the cops stopping. You know, think and you stole something and you walk briskly, but you get off the street, and uh, you know.

00:14:52
Speaker 3: And there were times in Sreetports.

00:14:53
Speaker 2: There were times in and in uh you know, Richard, Virginia when Ralph and I had to stay on second, second or third street that you know, at the motel where they whe whether the numbers man, the pimps, the prostitutes, the you know. I mean, this is when everybody you know did their business. But it made me grow up a lot. I saw a different side of life.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: I mean it was.

00:15:22
Speaker 2: It was a blessing actually that I you know, and I went through that because then when I came back to California, then I saw things a little differently. And it was tough to fool me by by the fact that you smiled in my face and really I could feel how.

00:15:38
Speaker 1: You really energy, energy doesn't lie. Yeah, although there was I mean, obviously you said almost segregations within the team where black and white players didn't stay together. What was the chemistry like outside of that? Was the chemistry so good or did you have some teammates that still kind of side eyed you?

00:15:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there were some, but you know something sports was a great blender, Yeah, blender. And you know there was some du that you know that were from the South big time and hadn't had any interaction with any black players or Latin players that ended up being cool as hell. Interesting, and you know, I learned, you know, during this whole time. I went in Marine Reserves at the same time when the Marines at nineteen years old at the same time. Because the Braves got tired of me, you know, I had to come home to go to American River College after that first year of ball. Yeah, and I went there because you had to carry fifteen units per semester passable or you were drafted to the war and took the war to Vietnam. And so I came home and then you know, the Braves told me, hey man, you're on a fast track because I came out in June and I led the team in hitting and I had had no spring training or nothing, but they didn't know that I was working out with the track coach and the baseball you know, because I had to make it. And so I had a choice between Joe in the National Guard and joined the Marines. And I refused the National Guard because the National Guards, you know, it was getting called out on on riots at that time.

00:17:10
Speaker 3: And so I said, no, you know, I'm gonna join the Marines.

00:17:14
Speaker 2: And which was also a great time my life. Had it cop me, you know, it taught me, you know, teamwork, you know, I was always hunting and fish with my dad. You know, taught me weaponry, you know, it taught me, you know, a lot of stuff.

00:17:27
Speaker 1: So drafted Marines for five straight years. You were away from baseball.

00:17:33
Speaker 2: No I was, I was. You signed up for six years, and I signed up in the reserves and I went six months and uh, you know, I was dress blue out of man, which they give dress blues to whoever the baddest dude there was.

00:17:48
Speaker 3: But I told, you.

00:17:49
Speaker 2: Know, I just knew it was gonna be me. I said, man, you just yeah, yeah, And we got to go.

00:17:54
Speaker 3: Through all this.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: You know, it didn't worked like that, but that's what I thought of my in my and so anyway, you come out six months and then I went straight to the ball and then you do one weekend a month. You go be a marine, and then you do two weekends every summer. And so you know, like I go to Chronicle, I'd go to Pendleton and you know, your MOS is whatever you're trained to do.

00:18:21
Speaker 3: And I was in Advanced Motor.

00:18:25
Speaker 2: T you know, like I was out of mechanics and so but when you change units, like saying Shreetport, I was in an MP unit. So I had big duty that summer in Pendleton and your your garden Vietnam War criminals before they go to Levenworth. Yeah, and so you're not supposed to talk to the prisoners or nothing.

00:18:48
Speaker 3: So I had night duty.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: So you're supposed to like shine the light, you know, on the fence and then say halt and then shoot them in the butt they're going over the fence. So I said, guy told me, you didn't got to do that, man, You just go to sleeping and kick the light every once in a while. Well I kicked the light and it got it was up in the tree for about an hour. So the next day, next day, my punishment was no sleep.

00:19:18
Speaker 3: And so.

00:19:20
Speaker 2: Somebody goes Private Baker. I looked down and it's my homeboy from Riverside. I said, man, what you doing in here? He goes, man, I refuse to shake a tree and boom, boom boom. That's what he told me. So the next day somebody else called me.

00:19:38
Speaker 3: It was a team.

00:19:38
Speaker 2: It was a it was a it was a class clown.

00:19:42
Speaker 3: It from Riverside.

00:19:43
Speaker 2: So I took the shock and showed a lot of my I said, I ain't shooting nobody. You know, I act like I had them. And so you know, that was some you know, I was pretty to mess. It's time for me and for the country. You know, this one, Hay theres very was strong. This is I hang out in Winterland and my dad he said I could go any place, but he didn't want me going to Berkeley because of all the protesting. Yeah, all the protests, you know, Joe Bias, Timothy, Larry, Angela Davis, send Q all that. But you know, good thing they didn't have that tracking system online.

00:20:19
Speaker 1: He still made it out there.

00:20:20
Speaker 2: Huh hate it out there. He set out there.

00:20:25
Speaker 1: It's fun to ye, yes, sir, let's talk about you know, one of the greatest of all time. Hank Aaron and how that relationship helped shape the man and the ballplayer well became.

00:20:41
Speaker 2: First season, he helped shape me off the field, and at that time, everybody wanted to be around Hank. Hank was very involved in the civil rights movement, and so at any given time, I'd be and Hank and Ralph, we'd be with Jesse Jackson, Andrew Young, honorable Andrew Young, you know, Ted Abernethy.

00:21:07
Speaker 1: He just took you around with him.

00:21:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was always with him.

00:21:10
Speaker 2: And here I was, like nineteen twenty years old, coming from all white Carmichael to the South. I mean that, and you know, it kind of confused me. Yeah, you know, uh, you know for a while in time there. But to see the thing about it is, I was closer to Hank. I was closer to Hank's kids in age than I was to Hank. And uh. And so like I go over Hank's house and play with with you know, with Gail and Hanky and Larry and Derinda, and like I said, I was, I was playing Jackson. You know, he was like a kid, jumping the kid. Yeah yeah, yeah, I was like a kid. And uh, but you know, being around Hank Man, you know, we'd go to Hank's room and at that time, Satchel Page was on the team, and so I mean, just to be around those dudes. And then we'd go to Saint Louis and Coop Papa Bell would come around to see Hank, and everybody would come around to see Hank. And you know, Hank would always have me around with us. I mean we went to Chicago, we'd be around, you know, Jesse Jackson would be there and then he'd have a dinner. They'd be the staple singers there. There was you know, Billy Preston who you know, it was there. Yeah, And it was like, I mean, it was education, you know, almost every day, and Ralph and I were in charge of making Hank laugh because man, we'd see the letters that Hank god and you know, we'd see the pressure that he was, you know, was under. And you know, Hank taught us how to how to, like, you know, conduct yourself with class and dignity. And everybody had some unresolved anger in the inside, but you don't wear it on the outside. Years later, things that Hank would tell me, he'd say, hey, you know, he'd call me boy, Hey, boy, you understand yes, sir, and I didn't understand nothing. But he says, look, if you don't understand what I'm telling you, at least retain what I'm telling you. Someday you'll see it. And that happened, you know a number of times. And even when I got to Chicago as a manager, you know, I got some threats. So I got a whole bunch of threats. My wife wouldn't let me go out by myself in Chicago because we started losing, and you know, I was getting like powder anthrax, powder in the in the mail and just you know, hate mail and all kind of you know letters. But I was prepared for that because I'd seen how Han Campbell did and so a lot of the things that happened in my life that I didn't like, it was all in the preparation to to uh, you know, for the president in the future, for me and and perchance you know somebody else.

00:23:54
Speaker 1: I mean, it was said that you would go back through the trash and dig up some of the letters and see some of just the nasty stuff that people will say to me.

00:24:02
Speaker 2: It was this is a lot of times. He throw it on the floor and Ralph was on one side, and I was on the other side and he throw it on the floor and I could tell it was a bad letter, and he'd go in the training room and then you know, he didn't just give it to us to let us read.

00:24:16
Speaker 3: Is you know, like your parents, they kind of hide stuff from it. But you know, if you.

00:24:20
Speaker 2: Do your own researcher, the curiosity a snooper or whatever it was, it was, it was a treat. But you know something, it was great to see how he channeled that to to hire a source of concentration. I've never seen a guy concentrate. And then one day there's a letter or a threat that somebody in a red coat was going to shoot Hank during the game. Yeah, during the game. So Hank's here, I'm there, Ralph's here. So me and Ralph man, we Hank, you know, we down with you. But with the whole game, we looking this the whole game. Look, Hank didn't look up that one time. Really, Yeah, yeah, And I was like, man, the whole time, I was gonna save Hank. You know what I mean?

00:25:11
Speaker 1: I mean what I mean, how open was what kind of personality happened? How open was he with you as far as kind of expressing that kind of emotion because I couldn't imagine obviously, to be able to block that out and focus and still be great when your life is being threatened on a daily basis, not just racism, but people are actually threatening to kill.

00:25:29
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, he challenged to a higher form of concentration than I've never seen before. But you know, we were cautious. You know, he had a bodyguard with him all the time. For time I saw a bodyguard. You know, Calvin Wardeno was his bodyguard. He had two rooms. He had one room he was he's room, and then another decoy room. And uh, you know, uh, you know, we're taking food.

00:25:53
Speaker 3: You know, we'd go down.

00:25:54
Speaker 2: We didn't drink much men Ralph, but we'd go down and you know, sit up with Hank because that was and he was getting divorced.

00:26:00
Speaker 3: I mean that was the time.

00:26:02
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he was lonely, and uh, you know, we just go, you know, go hang with Hank. And he'd liked to laugh. I mean, he Ralph can make anybody laugh, but Hank really liked to laugh. And so you know, he helped us, but in the small loved him.

00:26:21
Speaker 1: You were obviously a part of the team, but particularly on deck when he actually broke Babe ruth home run record. What was that night like?

00:26:29
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, first I was supposed to be protecting Hank in the batting order. Nobody can't protect thing bat it behind him. And you know, he would tell me things like, hey man, this guy's gonna throw me a slider away. I mean, he knew everything that was happening on the baseball field. He knew how you held your hands if you're going to be a pool hitter on defense, or he knew who could throw and who couldn't throw. And he would say, hey man, this guy's gonna throw me a slider alan away. Because last September he is what he did. And see there were no scattered reports. You had to keep it all right here in mind. He had to keep it right there. And Hank everything about everybody, and he taught us, which happened to me later. That's why I used to write everything down. Say, I had to write it down, and then I got it. You know, Hank this got it period.

00:27:24
Speaker 3: You know, like he I mean.

00:27:25
Speaker 2: This, and I'd see him if he was having trouble hitting, he would like make his hands small like this and look through and zero in on the release point.

00:27:36
Speaker 3: He said, I got him, like what you got man?

00:27:40
Speaker 2: And then he would tell man, I act like I got it halftime. No, most of the time I did, or else he'd looked through the hat like this through a hole. He had through the hole and he I mean you could tell when he was concentrating. I mean he could concentrate probably my long lines of a Barry box. Interesting, Yeah, because concentration and vision, uh, is something that they very rarely talk about. They talk about all the mechanics stuff, and I think it starts with concentration and vision because I've seen it.

00:28:15
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Big question after they get everyone off the field, and and and he hit the home run, what did you do next to best?

00:28:23
Speaker 2: I think he hit it double okay, but I was trying to hit a homer.

00:28:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, back to back would have been.

00:28:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hit a homer for Hank, but he didn't need it. Yeah. But but you know something that was that was a cold night in Atlanta. It was cold, cold, cold, And when he hit the home run, you know mama came down, Dad and his mom you see her drape herself around Hank. That's because there's you know, death Draft, and so then after that I heard I'm at that after they stopped the game, and I'm here this clank clank, clank, clean clink, I live up and everybody's leaving. I'm like, way man, how about the hits? You know, but they saw what they came memories of the early home run Derby show. I mean it was built around Hank. He won six of them. What do you remember about those? What you know about that?

00:29:13
Speaker 1: I remember seeing those. I don't remember what channel used to show the black and white back of the day. I remember that battles.

00:29:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was black and white. They sit down at the Wrigley Field out and U down Long Beach. Oh yeah, hey man, that was That was one of the greatest shows, especially because you know, I never hit the home runs. I wasn't strong enough to your home run, and the home run Derby was something I remember. Uh, Bob Allison, I.

00:29:41
Speaker 3: Remember Hank Willie. I mean them dudes could hit.

00:29:46
Speaker 2: I mean they could really hit. And yeah, that was about as much fun as I as I had watching TV at that time.

00:29:55
Speaker 1: So take a look at this photo right here. Some legends look at that.

00:30:00
Speaker 2: This cool Papa Bell and sat and Ralph and me, Oh.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, how much older was Hank than you? Ten fifteen years? I think he's older more than that, probably okay, closer to tween.

00:30:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, fifteen sixteen, I guess. And seeing I got in trouble here because they I was trying to style. Say, I had the white yes with the stirrups. Yeah yeah, but I mean but the whitebody black on them. See, but I I wanted to style, you know, I got my little skinny wristbands and stuff, and uh, he was flying. You know what the thing about it is, man, those two dudes when you're around them, see, and Hank would make them start lying, and then he'd say, hush lyon and so then they light some more, and all me and Ralph did look at us, so we ain't do nothing but laughing at him.

00:30:55
Speaker 1: Who's the guy behind? Is Ralph right here in the front, Yes, Ralph behind Gata.

00:30:59
Speaker 2: See I can't make out who that is. And see Sad used to call me. He used to call me Daffy.

00:31:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard, and you corrected him one time he said, no, your name is My name is Dusty.

00:31:12
Speaker 2: He said, Daffy, I know what your name. And see Jim Gilliam used to talk about cool.

00:31:19
Speaker 3: Papa Bell all the time.

00:31:22
Speaker 2: And you know, I was so lucky to be around Jim gillm and Newcomb and Roy Campanello and also Erskin and Sandy Colfax is one of the coolest dudes. And really yeah, I mean, you know, it's really great when you have heroes and you meet them and then they're better, yeah, you know, people than they were playing.

00:31:43
Speaker 1: Because unfortunately sometimes I mean I remember my area, you would hear about your heroes and meet them and people would be disappointed, you know what I mean. So to be able to say that at better, yeah better, I got a couple.

00:31:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:31:54
Speaker 1: So you end up back in California with the Dodgers. How'd that trade happen? I know that the Braves are struggling and you would ask to be traded and at the end of the year, yeah, they major wishes come true.

00:32:04
Speaker 2: Well, I went in and asked to be traded. I want to come back home. I was ready to go home, and plus I was tired of losing. And Thomas Sorda had kind of messed with me and said, hey, man, you need to be on the Dodgers. So I was like, man, I mean, you know that can happen. So I going to see Eddie Robinson, the general manager, and the first thing he asked me, had I ever been to Cleveland? Because back then Cleveland was a Siberian front. They had a big old stadium that hell, fifty thousand people, or harverd Many Stadium, the Brown Stadium held at that time.

00:32:37
Speaker 3: And so I went.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: I asked Hank, I said, how come every time I asked him he asked me, I have been to Cleveland? He said, boy, you don't want to go to Cleveland. I mean, it's not the Cleveland. I mean, Cleveland now is nice, but at that time they were losing. It was cold, and I was on my way home to California. You know I had a Porsche.

00:32:56
Speaker 1: You drove a Porsche from Atlanta back to Kelly.

00:32:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, holy shit. Yeah. Towards nine fourteen, I made a little fling in the back.

00:33:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, you.

00:33:06
Speaker 2: Know I sold my Thunderbird because I was selling cars at that time.

00:33:09
Speaker 3: See, we had to work in the winter.

00:33:10
Speaker 1: So you had off season jobs. Oh yeah, really yeah.

00:33:13
Speaker 2: I sold cars. I sold life insurance. Oh you know, the atlant of life. I mean, you know, fifteen thousand dollars of minimum. Ain't that much money? Absolutely exactly now when you're trying to help my mom and dad and brothers and sisters and so anyway, I'm in New Mexico and at that time they had some UFOs. They stopped mutilating cattle and all that stuff out the middle of the desert, and so my life start flickering. So I just knew, man, UFOs was on me.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: What do you mean your car life started a flicker just out of nowhere.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the dark. And all of a sudden, I mom in the middle.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: So I said, oh no, and then I had the UFOs after me.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: So I stopped, and I'm watching TV and I see these dudes on TV. Damn man, And they traded four guys. And then I said, man, who they trade that those guys for? You know me?

00:34:07
Speaker 3: That's how I found.

00:34:08
Speaker 1: Out, that's how you felled out on TV.

00:34:09
Speaker 2: So I called my dad. I said, Pops, He said, boy, where are you? We've been looking for you. Because they didn't have cell phones back then, you had to stopping in the phone booth. So you know, that was one of the better days of my life. But I almost screwed it. Up because I went home to Del Campbell a week after playing against Jerry Man and his brothers and my knee playing basketball.

00:34:32
Speaker 1: Oh did you just some pick up?

00:34:34
Speaker 2: Pick up? Because my mother used to always tell me quit playing basketball. But how do you stop playing basketball? I don't understand that, you know basketball Jones by J Jones. I had it. I had it bad. Yeah, so that almost cost my career my first year here. Wow, I hit a home run my first at bat. I'd hit another one until July the fourth. Really, oh yeah, and then they was booing me every day. And then they had uh you know, I'd hate to even come out of the dougout, you know, to pinch hit at the end, consume as I step out on that runway from the dug out the homeplace. Oh my god. And so you know, they operated on me. The trainer helped save me. Oh first, the trainer, he says, how you need I said, I was running a dog. I jumped over this this creek and boot boom and Sacramento. So he says, hey, man, did your dog getting assists? He heard about it, so he said, okay, He said tell me the truth, and he said, don't lie to me. And I told him he helped me save my career. Doctor Joe operated on me and I used that. Yeah, doctor doctor Joe, he did all my operations. So once I became a coach and a manager, my number one rule is don't lie to me, you know, give me a chance to understand, because that's what that's what happened to me with my trainer. And he understood, you know, he gave me up to the Dodgers. That's big, Yes, that's big. And also learned lessons that you know, somebody tell you something, unless it's life and death or or something like that, you gotta you got to eat.

00:36:11
Speaker 3: It and go to your grave.

00:36:12
Speaker 1: But so you came in in a in the richest era of Dodger history. I mean Garvey say Lopes Russell, you know, Tommy was the manager. What was that clubhouse and culture.

00:36:22
Speaker 2: Like, well, it was a it was a culture winning, you know, and at that time the Lakers are winning, Dodgers will win, USC was winning, Rams are winning, Angels when U c.

00:36:35
Speaker 1: L A winning U l A was come, I'm gonna get there and all this other ship.

00:36:41
Speaker 2: Man. See, you didn't give me a chance. No, But I mean the culture you know when I first got there. I mean, right, what was your first year in l A seventy six? Yeah, and uh I missed cut off man, and uh I'm still a dude out of third And David those come over to me and goes, hey, man, and now Campannis just give giving me a book, The Dodger Way to Play Baseball. I didn't read that book, man, I don't need no book. So I missed a cut off man. David OLPs came over to me and say, man, we don't play like that. Here, you know, hit the cutoff. Hit the cutoff man. So I say, man, you don't tell me what to do. And so here comes Joe Ferguson and here comes about eight guys. It was said, you up. I said, I can't beat everybody. So I went on that.

00:37:31
Speaker 1: Night read the book.

00:37:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to figure this out. I read the book man.

00:37:41
Speaker 1: So you you struggled, you know a little bit and a lot. When did you kind of kind of start finding your rhythm as a Dodger?

00:37:49
Speaker 2: After I had my knee operator on, I was, I know, I've never been on the disabled list, but I made it through the year.

00:37:58
Speaker 3: I had a bunch of quarters on shots.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: So what you had surgery and just started playing right after that night. Surgery in the winter, oh okay, in the winter.

00:38:05
Speaker 2: And I was in a cast from here to there because then that's when they cast you. Yeah. And and then I went to Dodger Stadium once my cast came off, and the same trainer that I told you about, we ran every day from the bottom of Dodger Stadium all the way up eight nine to the very top and down. I mean he ran with me every day. You know, he saved my career.

00:38:28
Speaker 1: Held you at this stuff.

00:38:30
Speaker 2: Twenty six, you're right about to hit your brother.

00:38:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had to be twenty six.

00:38:34
Speaker 2: And you know they traded Buckner to the to the Cubs because they're trying to trade me, but they didn't want me at the time, because I'm telling you, man, I was and I knew. I said this, this is where I always wanted to play. You know. I got to get myself together, and this is when I fell in love with baseball. When I got hurt, and it was almost taken from me because before that, man, I was playing baseball, you know, because I was good at it, making money, but you know, my heart was in basketball.

00:39:07
Speaker 1: Interesting, did you guys I mean obviously you know now that kids got trainers at six years old and doing all kinds of stuff. And I didn't grow up that way. I grew up playing every sport. Did you guys train in the off season? Like what was off scenes in training? Like did you guys lift weights or what kind of stuff.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: Do you do? Well? I started lifting weights when I hurt my knee.

00:39:24
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's got you on that kind of yeah, okay.

00:39:27
Speaker 2: Because see they used to tell us don't lift weights because you know you'll get muscle bound and stuff. Well, man, I was so far from muscle bound.

00:39:34
Speaker 1: He needed to help.

00:39:35
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, I can.

00:39:36
Speaker 2: I can lift weights in my little muscle boot like this, and my brother lift waiits man, he would like, blow up.

00:39:42
Speaker 3: I get strong.

00:39:43
Speaker 1: I was strong as hell, but I just wouldn't see it.

00:39:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, you couldn't see it.

00:39:47
Speaker 2: And yeah, Bobby Bobbie slift weights and when he was like fifteen, sixteen years old, and Rico Carti's slift weights, and but Bobby his weights were like a steel bar. You know, it wasn't it wasn't official. Wait it work though, Yeah, yeah, but you know something, I got a theory that the old dudes. They didn't lift weights, but they did manual labor. You know, they either picked that. You know, Hank said he worked on an ice truck. You know, William May's pick cotton. I think somebody else, you know, Mickey Mantle bailed. Hay. I mean those are those are lasting strengths that you get.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: There was a grown man strength different than strength.

00:40:34
Speaker 2: And see that's weird you said that because see I was hitting balls at nineteen twenty twenty two years old. But they used to tell me, wait till you get your man strength different, And sure is different. And my dad said that if you get in the fight with old man, you don't know because he know, he told me Russell Wood him for about.

00:40:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, because our era didn't lift a ton of weights. But ever when I got to the NBA and there was still real power forwards and centers like that grow man weight. When you got some kids that you paid for and the mortgage you paid for, it is way different. Yeah, it's different. Rumor has it you're one of the co inventors of the high five.

00:41:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, cole is a key word, Okay, because Glenn Burkett invented it.

00:41:21
Speaker 1: Okay, and I don't.

00:41:23
Speaker 2: I don't know if he invented it, but that's the first time I saw Yeah, because I hit my thirtieth home run off of j R. Richard And on the last day. I mean, this guy, he was my nemesis the picture. Yeah, and Reggie Smith told him on a Thursday that I was going to hit it off him on Sunday. And I said, Reggie, he don't need any help, dude.

00:41:45
Speaker 1: You really got me.

00:41:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I'm hitting about one hundred off this guy and he's my buddy. Okay, Yeah, I mean you know, he striked me out three times and then picked me up after the game. We'll have a drink. That's how it was. And uh And I see him coming and I ducked and try to get on the bus because I'm still to stop at the game. He don'd I said, come on, man, get in. I said, for what he goes man, the game's over. I said, it's over for you. They ain't old for me.

00:42:15
Speaker 1: It just struck me out three times.

00:42:18
Speaker 2: Crazy.

00:42:20
Speaker 1: Tell us about how the tradition about the bubble gum started. You were talking a little bit about it before the show, But at Dodger Stadium he used to throw thousands of pieces of gum out in the outfield.

00:42:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a guy named Chuck and another lady and her son, Mark Risman. They said to throw me bubble gum in the beginning, and so I picked their bubble gum up. Then everybody start bringing bubble them up, and then they'd hold up the game. So pick up all the gun, I tell the bat boys, And they got to be a routine. They'd come on and get all the gun. But I would notice Chuck's gum and only chew it.

00:42:59
Speaker 1: I'm safe. You know what they putting in the other gun. I'm telling you, man, absolutely still in the seventies, should I'll be scared in twenty twenty six to choose somebody's guns. Seventy seven teammate history with four guys hitting thirty plus home runs. You ready, Smith Garvey and say the squad also featured an all black outfield.

00:43:19
Speaker 3: Well, that's something we didn't I didn't think about.

00:43:21
Speaker 1: When did you kind of think about that until later?

00:43:24
Speaker 2: Oh?

00:43:24
Speaker 1: Really, not till now, I really swear. Wow.

00:43:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because see in those days, it was it was kind of common, you know, and in the minor leagues it was real common.

00:43:38
Speaker 1: You know, and so just today it's not common.

00:43:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly.

00:43:43
Speaker 1: But with Smith and Thomas were also from California, right, yeah, I mean from Compton, Okay.

00:43:50
Speaker 2: And I tell people Reggie Smith was the second best player I played with, behind Hank Aaron.

00:43:56
Speaker 3: Really. Ray Smith was a bad boy man.

00:43:58
Speaker 2: There ain't nothing raggy, but he couldn't do y know, he could hit, run, switch hit, and you know.

00:44:04
Speaker 1: It was he centerfield right cannon.

00:44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and if I was having trouble, you know, I talked to Regis Smith.

00:44:13
Speaker 1: Seventy eight back to back World Series trips you with the nl NLCS MVP and seventy seven the Grand Slam off of Steve Carlton.

00:44:25
Speaker 2: Did you think, huh, well, hey man, you know they walked guarded to get to me, to try to load up the situation, well, to make him pay. Yeah, But Hank used to tell me, you know, they'd walk him too, and he say, don't try to hit a home run. He says, don't hit the ball on the ground because they want you into a double play. And he says, just a big part of the field. So I was one ball to strikes and I was thinking how it was Todd. You know, you put the ball in play, but you don't miss what was coming. And he hung the break them all to me in got it? Yeah, I mean, And Hank said, I mean, this is what Roy Campanella used to tell us all the time. He says, Man, you only hit one pitch at a time. You say, take a good whack at it and don't miss it. And so see that's just like you get to open j got to hit it. You got that's right.

00:45:20
Speaker 1: So two home runs and eight RBIs in the NLCS and onto the World Series.

00:45:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think I broke Hank's record for that, did you, Yeah, against the Mets, and I was that's the only record I came close to Hank. But it's something that I was very very pleased with, especially afterward. My first year went there, right, and then from then on then you know, I, me and the fans got long.

00:45:44
Speaker 1: But that's good because they could be brutal fell short two years to the Yankees and both of those World Series. But take us back to Game six where Reggie Jackson hit three home runs?

00:45:56
Speaker 2: What was it?

00:45:56
Speaker 1: What was the energy like that game? Yeah? The energy is good for heal, bad for us, you know, what I mean was that in New Yorker and I was in New York.

00:46:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I can see him. Yeah, I was.

00:46:09
Speaker 2: Lost, like bam, bam bam. I just couldn't believe it because I never you know, I never see anything like that. But uh, it was. I wasn't real big on the Yankees because you know, I was a Dodge fan, and you know, the Dodgers lost to the Yankees on a number of occasions, just like I was a Laker fan. But that's why I didn't like the Celtics. Yeah, because they won all the time. And I was like, man, why once they went all the time? But then once I got in that position, then I wanted to win off you know.

00:46:45
Speaker 1: Eighty one you get your revenge. Part of Fernando Mania. What was that like and what was he like as a person.

00:46:51
Speaker 2: Hey, Fernando was perhaps one of the best athletes I ever played.

00:46:56
Speaker 3: And he could do everything but run. He couldn't run.

00:46:59
Speaker 2: Leg, but he could feel, he could hit, he could I mean, he could do anything. You know that hacky sack thing those kids used to do. Yeah, hey, man, he would keep it a life for like thirty minutes. I was like, then, how you do that man, and uh, you know he was a good athlete and you know he was fun loving. He was nineteen years old, because you know a lot of Latin players they're like, oh, he's really older. No, he was nineteen teenager. Yeah, I mean he do like kids stuff, tapping on the shoulder, you look around, it's like, you know a kids go on from that note, Hey man, he could pitch, and you know he had total recall. What Hank talks about at nineteen twenty years old, I remember every everything. Yeah, I remember Andre Dawson had a homer off of them in April, and then in August he had the same situation and he remember what he's doing back then got him out. But but but that's what I said. You got to have total call, uh, in order in order to keep your lead and listen.

00:48:06
Speaker 3: If I stutter sometime.

00:48:08
Speaker 2: See I went to featured penment class in sixth grade.

00:48:12
Speaker 1: Did you really yeah?

00:48:13
Speaker 3: Because I was a stutter.

00:48:14
Speaker 1: You're the best stutter?

00:48:15
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:48:15
Speaker 3: Pretty bad.

00:48:16
Speaker 2: I mean after school I go and then my best friend and wait on me. After school we go play basketball. I come out like talking good and then he would be like what you learn?

00:48:29
Speaker 4: And I started, hey, hey, we're friends like that.

00:48:41
Speaker 2: Who needs.

00:48:45
Speaker 1: Man? That's funny.

00:48:46
Speaker 2: He's still my best friend?

00:48:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that tell he said hello, he said he's still his best friend to today.

00:48:53
Speaker 2: Crazy.

00:48:54
Speaker 1: So eighty one for theanomania, You guys get your payback. Reggie Dave Winfield. We just had him on the show the other day after losing to him twice back to back years to get that redemption in eighty one? What did that mean to you?

00:49:06
Speaker 2: I felt like Moses, you know that. See, yeah, it helped lead the children. But couldn't go to the Promised Land because see, I got to fight before we went to the World Series, and so I couldn't. I got a fight in Montreal with some fans after the.

00:49:24
Speaker 1: Game, actual physical fight.

00:49:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. See I got a bunch of scars here.

00:49:29
Speaker 1: Oh so you broke your hand. Oh I didn't break it, but I messed it up, did something to it. So you couldn't play. I played, just couldn't. You weren't yourself?

00:49:38
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:49:38
Speaker 2: And I told Tommy, I said, Tommy, I don't think I can play. And I called my dad. I said Dad, I can't play. Man, I hurt my hand And he said, boy, were you fighting? I said, yes, sir, so what I told you about fighting? And so I said, but Dad, he didn't want to hear it. So I told Tommy. I said, Tommy, I don't think I can play it. Tommy goes, hey, man, you gotta play, because you know we're not the same without you on the field.

00:50:00
Speaker 1: So that's your throwing hand, then, right, that's my top hand, top hand.

00:50:03
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's because I.

00:50:05
Speaker 2: And so, Uh, that's why I wanted to win as a manager and coach, because like I helped get us there, but I didn't contribute. But fortunately for me, Jaeger Penguin and uh uh Page Garrell, you know, you know, bail me out.

00:50:25
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll take it.

00:50:26
Speaker 2: But but no, I hear you.

00:50:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, career ends in Oakland with a pretty solid roster. You get to play alongside the young Jose canseeko. Uh late season call up Mark n Guire, managed by your old teammate Tony LaRussa. What was the final chapter like? And when did you know it was time?

00:50:43
Speaker 2: I didn't, you know, because I know I could still hit. I just couldn't play defense anymore. Run, but I know I can still hit. But that was uh and Dave Stewart because because young Stu, yeah, Stu was was was released by the Phillies and they asked him that I think Stu could could pitch, and uh, and then Stu came over with us, you know, pitched some couple of minor league games, I think next year, and then he took off and won twenty four years in a row. And uh, you know, like.

00:51:17
Speaker 3: Stu was, you know, like my son.

00:51:19
Speaker 2: But see at the end there, you know, there's always some trouble in your life, and always some trouble at the end of your sometime the end of your career. And I left La with with with some rumors and then you indos about things. So all of a sudden, I didn't play too much my last you know, a couple of years because I wouldn't really cooperate. But you know, they teach you the military.

00:51:45
Speaker 3: That you kind of.

00:51:48
Speaker 2: Give name, rank and serial number, you know what I'm saying.

00:51:51
Speaker 1: So looking back on it now, was it hard headedness on your part or bullshit on their part or a little bit of both?

00:51:58
Speaker 2: You said it, it was a little bit the both, okay. And you know a lot of times, you know, there are things that happened in your life that you're not proud of. But at the same time you can sort of call bullshit on other people's part, you know.

00:52:16
Speaker 1: To play the part. But also back then you didn't have an outlet to tell your side, you know what I mean. So whatever said, the rumors that flew, you had to wear them, whether they were true or not.

00:52:28
Speaker 2: It's okay, but you learn from it. You learn from it, you get strong.

00:52:32
Speaker 1: You know, after you're playing days nobody picked you up. You spoke earlier about how you wish that major leagues would hire more previous guys. You ended up being a stockbroker. How did you get back into the game? I heard you got a call from from Hank.

00:52:46
Speaker 2: Well, I got a call from Hank had a golf from I think Cito who was Joe Morgan, that that they were trying to get a group together, you know, to get players jobs when they leave the game. And so, uh, we're also with Ken Shropshire, who was uh, you know, ahead of law at at at University of Pennsylvania.

00:53:13
Speaker 3: You know, some heavy, heavy, heavy.

00:53:16
Speaker 2: Black people in uh in uh in the world in the US, and so they started a group.

00:53:22
Speaker 3: We went to Dallas.

00:53:23
Speaker 2: And uh, you know, we met with Al Rosen and some of the you know, higher ups, and so I all came over to me and said, hey, man, we'd like to hire you, uh as a coach. That I said, I'm not here to get a job. I got a job, and plus, you know, when I left baseball, that was the last thing I want to do is coach. But I got divorced, like like I like my mom and dad did. And I was at the crossroads, and so I was, I said, I don't want to coach. My dad or son watched you go pray on it went to Lake Arrowhead and UH with my daughter, UH and my brother and I'm checking in the in the hotel and the dude tsked me on the shoulder. It's the owner of the well the giants, and he says, you need to come join us. So I told my dad. I said, Dad, you think that's a sign. And he said, Son, that's a sign that you don't want to see. So that's what I said. Okay, I'll give it five years and then I'll go over to the ESPN or somewhere if I'm not because I wanted to be a general manager.

00:54:31
Speaker 1: Okay, you didn't want to manage, wanted to go to the upper management.

00:54:35
Speaker 2: Well, you know, so I can hire and fire. You know what I'm saying. What I'm saying, I can help some, but I can really help and uh so al Rose will say they would take five years, you know to get the manager out of here, I mean get the player out of you. And then there was five years one day until I was named the manager. Yeah, it works.

00:54:55
Speaker 1: You join the Giants right after they signed Barry A great relationship with his father. I had Royce Clayton on last week. He told me how Barry came in with the backwards hat, the dangling earring, the jokes. Did you know Barry earlier before he got to the Bigs because of obviously your connection to Bobby.

00:55:14
Speaker 2: Well, I held Barry a couple days after he was born, you know, on the riverside Uncle Dusty.

00:55:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so hey man.

00:55:25
Speaker 2: Bobby used to tell me how good Barry is going to be because I had lost contact with Barry because I was off doing my thing and Bobby wasn't lying.

00:55:37
Speaker 3: You know, he's one of the best.

00:55:38
Speaker 2: No, he's the best player I had, and the best player alongside Hank Aaron that I had.

00:55:45
Speaker 3: You know that I had been around.

00:55:47
Speaker 1: What's his day to day. Like we got a chance to sit down with Barry and the way he broke things down and pitches and how he played the mental game in his head that it was just him and the picture. It wasn't the defense. I mean, obviously his preparation was he talked.

00:56:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, because see most time he don't tell you.

00:56:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, he opened up surprised. Even his daughter's like, well.

00:56:06
Speaker 3: He opened up now because he ain't playing.

00:56:07
Speaker 2: Against you there you Yeah. But see the thing about it is he was very disciplined, not only on the field, but off the field.

00:56:16
Speaker 3: He worked hard.

00:56:18
Speaker 2: A lot of times people think that he didn't didn't take batting practice or didn't do this that. A lot of times he'd get up in the morning and go work out, or they'll come back and then you.

00:56:29
Speaker 3: Know, we'd be amazed.

00:56:30
Speaker 2: Sometimes he hadn't picked up a ball, sometimes he hadn't swung a bat.

00:56:34
Speaker 3: And now now they.

00:56:35
Speaker 2: Got sleep rooms where they used to get on Bury before about sleeping before the game, and now they have designated rooms to sleep.

00:56:43
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

00:56:44
Speaker 1: So it would take just to take a nap.

00:56:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, but see you got to like shake you and then jump back because yeah, I think so, you know, and so like the thing about him is, man, he knew what was coming like at all the time. He had total recall, you know, and everything. And he's a guy that should should be in the Hall, and he's a guy that should be.

00:57:09
Speaker 3: In the games.

00:57:10
Speaker 2: There's a lot of knowledge there is.

00:57:11
Speaker 3: I agree that we're not hitting.

00:57:13
Speaker 1: You managed him through arguably one of the greatest offensive seasons in baseball history, the two thousand and two season, where he hit seventy three home runs. In the dugout day to day being just up to be able to see his greatness. What was that like?

00:57:27
Speaker 2: Well, every day you just knew he's gonna hit one. Literally, yeah, I mean, you just didn't know how he's gonna hit, right. And Sean Dunstan is a guy that really really uh uh, you know, pumped him up because you know, Barry Design I don't know, but Shana, yeah, you can do it, man, you could do it.

00:57:45
Speaker 3: They had a bet, you know.

00:57:47
Speaker 1: I remember, you want a car off it?

00:57:49
Speaker 2: Right.

00:57:50
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna say that, but he show.

00:57:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he told us about that, didn't he tell us about that?

00:57:54
Speaker 2: And you know, very little tight man.

00:57:55
Speaker 1: He didn't want him want to spend that money. To thousand and two World Series. You go seven games, right, you guys are up three to two or go six? You were up three two, three outs to go and and and somehow it ended up slipping away.

00:58:13
Speaker 2: Hey, man, just oh that game at seven? Yeah you got two thousand and two. I was twenty twenty two. Yeah, oh yeah, I went seven and yeah, I mean that's that was a big motivator for me after we lost that series, because my dad told me, he goes, man, I don't know, if you didn't win that game, you may never win one. And you know, back in the old days, negative motivation was something that that you know, would resonate. But now you can't use negative motivation, so it doesn't work.

00:58:44
Speaker 3: You know, I was along right home.

00:58:47
Speaker 2: I knew that I was, that I was leaving, and you know, Bill, Bill watsh It told me sometimes you can stay somewhere too long, and that's why I left Chicago.

00:59:01
Speaker 1: You get them out of the slump. Since nineteen oh eight, with the postseason appearance Sammy Sosa, Carrie Wood prior Maddox Zambrano, what was that, dudes, man, sounds like it That's why I went there. Yeah, great pitching staff.

00:59:17
Speaker 2: Yeap.

00:59:18
Speaker 1: I mean.

00:59:20
Speaker 2: Som Brono was a was an athlete. Som Brono was Fernando but could run and he's switch Edy's switch hitter. I mean Sombrono was one of the best athletes. Oh yeah, I mean that's staff was nasty.

00:59:37
Speaker 1: I went prior. Oh yeah, o g Maddox. It was Sammy, Like we got a chance to sit down with Sammy did Yeah, it was at winn of Pump's events.

00:59:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Sammy could Sammy could play. I knew Samon and he was up the White Sox.

00:59:52
Speaker 1: Okay when he could run and back when he had the Jerry curw Oh yeah.

00:59:56
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey Sammy, Sammy. Sammy had think is one of the most underrated players. Is that?

01:00:02
Speaker 3: I mean, Sky, what do you do?

01:00:04
Speaker 2: Hit sixty like you know, two or three times or whatever it is, and nobody thing about it, you know what I mean? And so yeah, it was I had some good dudes, man, good dudes to matter.

01:00:17
Speaker 1: Two thousand and three NLCS the famous Bartman catch walk us through what you saw?

01:00:23
Speaker 2: What you heard? D Lee.

01:00:28
Speaker 1: You were at that game, you were in the building. Oh yeah, he was there. Yeah, okay, yeah, well you know, Bartman, I couldn't see the play, okay, because it was left field. It was left field line, right, Yeah, so you were in the third base dugout.

01:00:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't see down left field line. And I could tell by the fans reaction and by their reaction over there what happened on the Cubs. And I didn't see it until after the game, you know what I mean. I think I think you cut caught it. But hey man, we had a we had an opportunity to win that game with chances. Now, one of the toughest parts there. You talk about d v C. I I didn't really want to pisch d V but Prior got d Lee out on that fastball up and end. And Prior still talks about that. And you know, I don't like my homeboy beat me, but if anybody gonna beat me, might as little be him. But then he ended up joining us afterwards, you know, which is one of the one of the most proudest moments I had.

01:01:31
Speaker 3: I mean, our families know each other. I mean, you know history, oh yeah, all the history I know.

01:01:36
Speaker 2: And he was a little old dude coming to a baseball school. But I know him for basketball more than more than baseball. If you Sacramento, you gotta play basketball.

01:01:45
Speaker 1: You don't think you have a choice. But baseball was just as fun. I felt growing up. Baseball was just as fun as any of the sports I played, Like you know, to TV in the little league position center field, first base, and short stop.

01:01:57
Speaker 2: At that speed, huh, they play.

01:01:59
Speaker 1: A little bit. I just couldn't hit all speed pictures.

01:02:01
Speaker 2: Once I got you think you speed business, I had to let it go.

01:02:07
Speaker 1: Well I got a whole little it was going, but yeah, I had to let it go. Astros, you were hired right to play replace a j hips from this. The sign scandal one of the biggest controversies. Some would say the environment you stepped into, how challenging it was. It to kind of okay, this is happened in the past. Let's change focus and move forward. Well that's how it felt.

01:02:28
Speaker 2: And you know, I had just interviewed with the Phillies, okay, And but the Phillies told Joe, you know, took Joe Girardi. And so about a week or two later, I got the call from the Astros and and my son Darren b had told me, said maybe God didn't want you to take that Phillies job, and the Astros you know, usually don't uh inherit a championship team, and uh it was I was like, well, this is sent from above, you know what I mean? And uh, I knew I had a chance to win. I didn't care about the scandal because I wasn't there, and I just told him, hey, man, I asked the world to forgive him. And because the hardest thing in the world is for people to forgive each other. But everybody's quick to throw stones, you know. And so I got there. One of the best things that happened to me when I got there was the fact that we had COVID and and we didn't have to deal with the with the fans and the booing and and the jeers and just get back to baseball.

01:03:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.

01:03:32
Speaker 2: And then you know, the guy that took the brunner of it was was really you know, Josel Tov And he was the mosaicolant dude there and uh uh you know that that you know, really affected me.

01:03:45
Speaker 3: How how he was treated.

01:03:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all over everywhere, and he didn't deserve it.

01:03:52
Speaker 1: I mean, you found success in the manager space. Now that you're not doing anymore. What was your secret to be able to motivate lead? You get these guys to believe in what you were telling them, because it's it's difficult to get all those different personalized guys are making a bunch of different money to get everyone on the same page.

01:04:09
Speaker 2: But you had a knack for it. You know. I don't care about the money because I was I made money. I didn't care about being a star because I was a star. Just didn't shine as bright as some of these dudes. But I wasn't bad. And I think that helped me get some some success and and and respect the fact that I had been out there, and then my background and being in different environments playing Latin America, being all white, all black, being in the Marines, these are things that really just sort of helped me get along with everyone. Or knowing when to discipline somebody or knowing when to you know, back off. And I think having coaches was probably my real success. So you have coaches of different nationalities, different backgrounds. You know, I always wanted a black dudeo on my staff. I wanted the Latin dudo on my staff. I wanted the country white dude from the South that could deal with whoever was from from where they're from, you know what I mean?

01:05:17
Speaker 3: And I think you know, you know, the more.

01:05:21
Speaker 2: The first you can surround your you know, yourself with you know, the more diversity you can have on your team, you know, the better you know we're gonna get along.

01:05:30
Speaker 1: Like the twenty twenty one you fall short, but twenty twenty two you finally get over the hill and beat the team that decided to go a different way, beat the Phillies. What was that like? Obviously you said it was. It was bittersweet as a player because you're whooping people's ass in Montreal and he didn't really get to help on the field. But this time, you know, as a manager, the oldest manager to ever win it at seventy three, was that kind of like?

01:05:56
Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know the year before when the Braves beat us, that was the year Hank died. I remember my wife came in and told me that Hank had died, and you know, that morning, and man, in my mind, Hank wanted the Braves to win that year, even though he liked me. That was a Brave's year, right, And then next year that's when we won so I guess Hank came me his blessings. And that's the year my mama died as well, So you know, everything was pointing towards, you know, us to win. Everybody talks about me being the oldest manager. I don't. I feel younger than a whole bunch of these cats are here, you know what I mean. And plus the last oldest manager is the one who beat me and Jack McKinnon and Jack, so I took over from Jack. So you can see all these things lining up.

01:06:51
Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying.

01:06:52
Speaker 1: So it's meant to be.

01:06:53
Speaker 2: It's meant to be two championships.

01:06:55
Speaker 1: One is the manager, one is a player. Oh, for fifty years you got you know, you were able to make it to the on top. How does your baseball philosophy? I feel like you learned so much stuff about life through sports. How does your baseball philosophy just apply to life?

01:07:11
Speaker 2: Just trying to get too you know, too high when things are going good and too low when things are going bad, and then just realize it's a lot of this, you know, some of this is out of your control. You know, we think we're about control all the time, and just you know, just you know, live your life, you know, try to try to treat people right and uh, you know, try not to hold grudget if you can, because it's tough, tough times.

01:07:42
Speaker 3: It is no, no, all the time.

01:07:43
Speaker 2: It is he said, all the time. It is quick hitters.

01:07:47
Speaker 1: First thing to come to mind, let us know. Favorite ballpark Dodge Stadium, worst ballpark for hitting for any reason.

01:07:55
Speaker 2: Worst ballpark me to hit in was was regally.

01:07:58
Speaker 1: Feel someone else said that too, but then someone else loved it.

01:08:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people love it. A lot of people love it.

01:08:03
Speaker 1: I smartest picture you ever faced, Tommy John Tommy Jones, Nastiest single pitch you.

01:08:15
Speaker 2: Saw, Jr. Richard Slider ate you up, Huh.

01:08:21
Speaker 1: Hardest player to game plan against, Frank Tinna, hardest player the game plan against as a manager, Pools Okay, Funniest teammate Ralph Guard, Tightest clubhouse you ever been a part of.

01:08:32
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out which ones didn't fight or get them on.

01:08:35
Speaker 1: Let me see, But sometimes those fights bring you closer though. Kid Dodgers Man Dodgers Okay, bench clearing brawl. You got three guys to pick to be on your side from past present guys you.

01:08:48
Speaker 2: Played with, guys you played against. Ah, let me see who else, uh, Pegro Guerrero and Steve Henderson.

01:09:02
Speaker 1: One guy you'd like to see on All the Smoke Baseball Steve Kurr. Steve Kerr actually had Steve Curry. It was it was a it was a COVID episode.

01:09:11
Speaker 2: Though.

01:09:12
Speaker 1: I have a feeling he's probably going to retire soon, so we need to get back. We need to get him in this air.

01:09:16
Speaker 3: But you know something I always I managed.

01:09:20
Speaker 2: You know. The greatest comment I got was from uh uh doctor Jack uh and and he told me that I managed like a like a basketball coach.

01:09:31
Speaker 1: Really, Jack Ramsey told you that. Interesting.

01:09:33
Speaker 2: When I first started managing the coach the guys that really helped me a whole whole whole bunch of al adas because I went to the Squad Valley basketball camp.

01:09:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, back in the day.

01:09:46
Speaker 2: I was the m v P at that camp. There you go. And then and then Bill Walsh Bill Walsh, Yeah, yeah.

01:09:54
Speaker 1: That's interesting. I love Bill wassh. That was thenage of my team. Great, the great Bill Walsh. Well, Dusty, thank you for your time. It's been an honor to you know, following your footsteps in high school and know about your greatness and learn about you and then get a chance to know you.

01:10:10
Speaker 3: And he's a bad boy too.

01:10:11
Speaker 2: How long was you in the NBA fifteen? Man? Yeah?

01:10:14
Speaker 1: Would you take basketball if you if you had to do it all over again, if.

01:10:17
Speaker 3: I was good enough. But I've been tiny, Dusty Baker.

01:10:22
Speaker 1: But that love never dies. But we appreciate you, man, Thank you for your task. Dusty Baker.

01:10:26
Speaker 2: All right, man,