Inquiry with Kelly Chase

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Inquiry with Kelly Chase is an investigative podcast about how we know what we know—and what happens when official reality stops making sense. Drawing on the history of psychological operations, ufology, psi phenomena, consciousness research, and anomalous experience, Kelly Chase investigates the places where reality misbehaves—because those are the places where it most often tells the truth. Presented by SpectreVision Radio This is also where you can find the archive for Kelly's previous shows—Cosmosis and The UFO Rabbit Hole. Kelly Chase is a writer, researcher, executive producer, and public speaker whose work focuses on anomalous phenomena, consciousness, and narrative. She is the writer and executive producer of Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, the host of Inquiry with Kelly Chase, and the former host of The UFO Rabbit Hole, and has been featured in UFO Revolution (TMZ) and Beyond (Bad Robot). Her work centers fidelity to firsthand testimony, ethical storytelling, and intellectual rigor over spectacle.
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I recently received an email from an individual who said they wanted to share a concerning series of online interactions they had with my former creative partner, Jay Christopher King. This person shared that they are an experiencer who started a correspondence with Jay on Instagram after seeing him on Cosmosis. They allege that, in the course of this conversation where they also shared vulnerable details of their history, Jay crossed sexual boundaries and sent an explicit photo. Screenshots were shared with me in support of these claims. They said they were reaching out because they were concerned by the brazenness of this behavior, particularly given that Jay is a public figure. And given his role working with vulnerable people in The Experiencer Group, they were concerned that others might be at risk.

I initially didn’t believe it. Jay is someone I have worked with very closely over the last three years. He’s been my business partner and my closest friend. We have spoken extensively about his work as the director of The Experience Group, and had many conversations—often initiated by him—about how vulnerable people can be when processing anomalous experiences, and how important it is to maintain clear boundaries and ethical standards. It is only because we’d had these conversations at length that I was ever comfortable recommending that people join The Experiencer Group. I did not think it was possible that the person I knew could have done something like this.

But as someone who has been the victim of sexual assault that went unpunished, and as a woman in this community who has publicly endorsed Jay as someone safe, this was not something I could ignore.

From the moment I first allowed for the possibility that this might be true to the time I was on the phone with a woman sharing another deeply distressing account involving Jay was just a few hours. I have since heard from multiple women who have described concerning behavior.

These stories are not mine to tell. But I want to be clear about the nature of what has been reported to me: I have heard from multiple individuals who have described concerning experiences, including allegations of inappropriate sexual behavior involving Jay. Some of these accounts come from individuals who describe having approached him while seeking support for their anomalous experiences.

I cannot independently verify these accounts, but given their seriousness, I felt it was important to take immediate action.

  • I am taking the necessary steps to permanently sever all ties with Jay 

  • The Cosmosis podcast, “Inquire Anomalous Presents” content, and any content featuring Jay has been permanently removed from all public feeds

  • Production of Season 2 of Cosmosis has been permanently suspended

  • At the time of this posting, I’m still not sure what’s going on with season 1 of the docuseries, but I will not be promoting it moving forward. 

I am devastated and mortified to have to come to the community that has inspired, held, uplifted, supported, and, at times, truly saved me, and tell you this. This is my greatest nightmare, and I’m sitting with the heartbreak and complexity of having given my endorsement to Jay over these past few years. For that, I want to apologize to the entire community, and to the experiencer community, in particular. 

I want to thank the person who reached out to me with the initial allegations. Your bravery and intuition broke a spell and helped a lot of people—including me. And thank you to the other brave women who have shared your stories with me in the interest of helping others. You all have my eternal gratitude. I am here for you, and you have my full support.


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You're not hallucinating. This is a repost. This episode accidentally got deleted. New episodes of Inquiry are coming soon.


Apocalyptic visions are one of the most persistent patterns in anomalous experience—and one of the least examined. Across abduction accounts, contact experiences, downloads, and altered states, experiencers consistently report visions of a coming cataclysm. The pattern holds across cultures, across centuries, and across radically different frameworks for understanding contact with non-human intelligence. And the prophecy never comes true.

That doesn't make it meaningless. It might make it more significant.

In this Field Notes episode, Kelly Chase lays out four theories for what these visions actually are—and what they're doing. Is this species-level PTSD, the trauma of civilizational collapses encoded in our collective psyche and mistaken for prediction? Are these translation artifacts—non-human intelligence reaching for the most legible human metaphor for an ontological rupture that has no literal equivalent? Is the phenomenon itself functioning as a control mechanism, using apocalyptic certainty to fragment, isolate, and neutralize experiencer communities at precisely the moments they begin to cohere? Or is something considerably more terrestrial at work?

The apocalypse may not be coming. But understanding why so many people have been shown it—and who benefits from that vision—may be one of the most important questions in the field.

Find the full transcript on my Substack.

🗒️ About Field Notes

Field Notes are short-form episodes where Kelly thinks aloud—tracing patterns, chasing questions, and working through ideas that haven't yet reached their conclusion. The path of inquiry is messy and non-linear, and Field Notes is where that process lives out loud. For access to the full archive of written Field Notes, visit inquirywithkellychase.substack.com.

Topics explored: Apocalyptic visions in anomalous experience | experiencer patterns | species-level trauma | collective unconscious | noosphere | Akashic record | ancestral memory | Younger Dryas | civilizational collapse | geological cataclysm | Jacques Vallée | Eric Davis | non-human intelligence communication | symbolic translation | ontological rupture | contact phenomenon | control mechanism | psychological operations | MKULTRA | Voice of God technology | anomalous cognition | experiencer communities | belief manipulation | abduction accounts | contactee testimony | field notes

Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm

Referenced In This Episode

Support The Show

Connect with Kelly

Watch Season 1 of Comosis: UFOs & A New Reality

TIMESTAMPS00:47 Apocalyptic Visions and Anomalous Experiencet

02:31 Theory One: Ancestral Memory

04:20 Theory Two: Translation Artifacts

05:56 Theory Three: Control Mechanism

08:08 Theory Four: Human Interference

11:01 What the Pattern Reveals

12:05 Closing and Where to Follow


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Something shifted in 2021 — not just for Kelly, but for an unusual number of people all at once. In this Field Notes episode, she thinks aloud about a pattern she keeps running into: waves of consciousness-altering experiences that clustered around a single year, reported independently, with near-identical features and near-identical language. More than a few people, without any prompting, reached for the exact same phrase to describe what happened to them: a sleeper agent, activated.

She traces the pattern outward — from veteran UFO researcher Stan Gordon's description of 2021 as the year "they opened all the cages at the Cryptid Zoo," to Edgar Mitchell's overview effect, to the measurable weakening of Earth's electromagnetic field and the approaching solar maximum — and keeps arriving at the same question: what changed?

This episode doesn't offer a single answer, just a few working theories held together honestly and the growing sense that 2021 may have been a threshold rather than an anomaly.

If you're a member of the anomalous class of 2021, this one's for you.

Find the full transcript on my Substack.

🗒️ About Field Notes

Field Notes are short-form episodes where Kelly thinks aloud—tracing patterns, chasing questions, and working through ideas that haven't yet reached their conclusion. The path of inquiry is messy and non-linear, and Field Notes is where that process lives out loud. For access to the full archive of written Field Notes, visit inquirywithkellychase.substack.com.

Topics explored: Anomalous class of 2021 | consciousness shifts | sleeper agent activation | collective awakening | overview effect | Edgar Mitchell | space psychology | Earth's electromagnetic field | solar cycles | geomagnetic weakening | pandemic isolation | shared reality collapse | threshold events | hundredth monkey effect | cryptid surges | window areas | Stan Gordon | Kecksburg | high strangeness | collective observation | quantum mechanics and perception | reality porosity | precognitive dreams | non-human intelligence contact | experiencer testimony | field notes


Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm


Referenced In This Episode

Here are the episodes where Kelly talks about her anomalous experience in 2021:


  • Through The Looking Glass [Pt 1]: My Initiation Into The Anomalous

  • Support The Show

    Connect with Kelly

    TIMESTAMPS

    01:43 Sleeper Agent Pattern

    03:37 Is 2021 a Wave

    05:09 Kecksburg Turning Point

    06:34 Threshold Consciousness Theory

    09:01 Overview Effect Clues

    10:40 Earth Field and Solar Cycles

    12:43 Pandemic Isolation Theory

    15:53 What It Means Going Forward


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    Something has shifted dramatically in the last few years. The institutions and information structures we were trained to trust have failed in ways that are now difficult to ignore, producing a kind of generalized mistrust that makes it hard to think, hard to act, and hard to know what a good life even looks like anymore.

    In this episode, Kelly sits down with philosopher and author James Madden to examine what it means to navigate belief and meaning when the ground beneath shared reality has already given way. Jim is the author of Unidentified Flying Hyper-Object: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World and Thinking About Thinking: Mind and Meaning in the Era of Techno-Nihilism, the cohost of The Great Dangerous Books Podcast, and a longtime thinking partner whose refusal to offer easy answers has made him a favorite among listeners of Kelly's previous work.

    They talk about the complacent indifference that has settled over people in the wake of seemingly endless waves of institutional scandal and revelation. They talk about conspiracy thinking as a cognitive response to the collapse of trusted authority—and why the fact that some conspiracies turn out to be real makes the situation harder to navigate, not easier. They talk about why generalized epistemic mistrust is such an effective mechanism for preventing meaningful action. And they talk about what it means to keep trying to live well when you can no longer trust the information you would need to do it.

    Topics explored: epistemological collapse | conspiracy thinking as cognitive response | institutional trust failure | the "big other" | generalized skepticism as paralysis | information warfare | the psychology of indifference | epistemic mistrust and political action | radical self-reliance | faith and probability | living well under uncertainty | Žižek | Lacan | Plato's Republic

    Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm

    Referenced In This Episode

    Check Out James Madden's Podcast

    The Great Dangerous Books Podcast

    Support The Show

    Connect with Kelly


    TIMESTAMPS

    04:50 Indifference and Partisan Filters

    06:03 Frozen by Mistrust

    07:41 Ontological vs Epistemic

    09:33 Medical Trust Breakdown

    13:13 Sheep Bandits Skepticism

    18:23 Conspiracy Comfort Trap

    22:07 Secrecy and Leaks

    26:00 How Conspiracies Operate

    28:32 Black Budgets Disinfo

    30:57 UFO Skepticism In Principle

    34:34 Portal Claims and Psyops

    35:56 Trading Obscurity for Obscurity

    38:43 Counting Humans Knowledge Limits

    41:32 Good Life in Uncertainty

    44:09 Moron Idiot Imbecile Framework

    46:14 Radical Self Reliance and Trust

    50:16 Skepticism Without Denial

    55:29 Faith, Doubt, and Jesus

    01:01:09 Keep Seeking Do Good

    01:02:17 Credits and Where to Listen


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    Something has been building quietly in the UFO space for the past few years. The Overton window around non-human intelligence has shifted. Insider sources are whispering about a contact event in 2026 or 2027. And a very old theory—that a fake alien invasion could be engineered to manufacture consent—is surfacing again in places Kelly can no longer dismiss as fringe. In this Field Notes episode, she doesn't tell you what to believe. Instead, she runs the thought experiment: if someone were preparing the public for something, how would it unfold, and what would it accomplish? The scenario she constructed is fiction. The mechanisms it describes are not.

    Read the transcript on Substack.


    🗒️ About Field Notes

    Field Notes are short-form episodes where Kelly thinks aloud—tracing patterns, chasing questions, and working through ideas that haven't yet reached their conclusion. The path of inquiry is messy and non-linear, and Field Notes is where that process lives out loud. For access to the full archive of written Field Notes, visit inquirywithkellychase.substack.com.


    Topics explored: Project Bluebeam | staged contact events | belief engineering | psychological operations | UFO disclosure narratives | epistemic collapse | information warfare | AI-assisted surveillance | blockchain identity systems | consent manufacturing | the Overton window | insider testimony | thought experiment as inquiry method


    Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm


    Referenced In This Episode

    Support The Show

    Connect with Kelly


    TIMESTAMPS

    00:49 Patterns Behind The Post

    01:28 Overton Window Shifts

    01:59 Contact Dates And Grooming

    02:27 Fake Invasion Narrative

    04:23 Project Bluebeam Explained

    05:56 Why Run The Thought Experiment

    07:02 Scenario Begins The Sky Event

    08:15 Reality Corruption And Babel

    10:19 The Proposed Solution Clearinghouse

    10:43 Verification Architecture And Control

    11:49 Outro And Where To Follow


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    After years immersed in the deep end of ufology, one question has proven impossible to shake: how is it that certain factions of the intelligence community—people who possess more evidence than most that consciousness survives death, that the soul is real, and that we are more than our physical bodies—so consistently engage in profound acts of moral evil?

    This Field Notes episode explores the contradiction at the heart of anomalous research: the same fundamental knowledge about non-material reality that tends to moralize everyday experiencers, deepening their compassion, ethical sensitivity, and sense of consequence, appears to have the opposite effect in certain institutionalized contexts. Why? And what does that divergence reveal?

    Kelly argues that the answer isn't hypocrisy, isn't power, and isn't institutional pressure alone. It's theology—not in the formal religious sense, but in the deeper sense: the set of assumptions a person holds about what is real, what matters, and what counts. Every action presupposes a theory of reality. And when someone is willing to deceive, coerce, and harm others in service of a greater purpose, that willingness is not an operational detail. It's a theological commitment.

    What kind of belief system allows someone to acknowledge the reality of the soul while treating human beings as expendable? What does it tell us about the UFO coverup that the people closest to the truth appear to have constructed a secret theology that quietly authorizes evil?

    This is one of the most important questions in ufology—and almost no one is asking it.

    Get the episode transcript on Substack.

    🗒️ About Field Notes

    Field Notes are short-form episodes where Kelly thinks aloud—tracing patterns, chasing questions, and working through ideas that haven't yet reached their conclusion. The path of inquiry is messy and non-linear, and Field Notes is where that process lives out loud. For access to the full archive of written Field Notes, visit inquirywithkellychase.substack.com.

    Topics explored: UAP disclosure | consciousness and survival of death | anomalous experience research | intelligence community secrecy | moral philosophy | secret theology | FREE Foundation data | PSYOP doctrine | the ethics of the coverup

    Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm

    Referenced In This Episode

    Support The Show

    Connect with Kelly


    TIMESTAMPS

    00:00 Welcome to Field Notes

    00:48 The Question That Haunts Me

    01:51 What Experiencers Report

    04:09 The Intelligence Contradiction

    04:48 Everything Is Theology

    06:42 Belief Shapes Behavior

    08:18 Why Knowledge Diverges

    10:04 A Secret Theology of Ufology’s Elite

    10:24 Closing and Credits


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    The world feels like it's coming apart at the seams—and it's not your imagination. In the span of just a few months, the Epstein files have exposed elite networks of abuse that were mocked as conspiracy theory for years, the U.S. government has confirmed Havana Syndrome and openly acknowledged its directed energy weapons program, UFO disclosure has moved from fringe forums to executive directives, and AI has advanced to the point where visual evidence can no longer be trusted.

    Each of these stories is destabilizing on its own. Together, they produce something else entirely: a collective epistemic crisis. The shared map we've been using to navigate reality is disintegrating in real time—and almost nobody seems to know what to do next.

    In this inaugural episode, Kelly Chase introduces the premise of Inquiry: why the anomalous experience community—people who have spent years navigating the collapse of their own models of reality—may be the most prepared guides we have for this moment. She traces how knowledge is built, why it's more fragile than we're taught to believe, and what it actually means to ask better questions when the ground is shifting beneath your feet.


    Topics Covered

    epistemic collapse, UAP disclosure, the Epstein files, Havana Syndrome and directed energy weapons, AI and the crisis of evidence, anomalous experience, the philosophy of knowledge, and what it means to inquire honestly in a post-consensus world.


    Inquiry with Kelly Chase is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio.

    Produced in partnership with Voltage.fm


    Referenced In This Episode

    Support The Show

    Connect with Kelly

    TIMESTAMPS

    01:21 Epstein Files Shockwave

    03:51 Directed Energy Revealed

    05:52 UFO Disclosure Tease

    06:53 AI and Epistemic Crisis

    10:48 Why Everyone Feels Frozen

    14:21 Cutting Through the Maze

    16:23 Meet the Experiencers

    19:51 My Worldview Breaks

    23:07 What Happened in 2021

    27:16 From UFOs to Inquiry

    29:21 How Knowledge Is Built

    35:12 Population Count Paradox

    39:49 Experiencer Resilience

    42:24 What This Show Will Do


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    Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole. 

    Today we return to the old podcast stomping grounds for the long-awaited part 3 of the Through the Looking Glass Series. In this episode, we follow Tom Matte as he heads to the Institute of Noetic Sciences in search of answers about his strange psi ability that he calls Upsight. What the team of scientists, working on chief scientist Dean Radin, found once that got him the lab was nothing short of groundbreaking. Could this help Tom finally get the answers he’s looking for? And what does all of this imply about the future of human consciousness?

    Today we dive back into the deepest part of the rabbit hole to find out.

    REGISTER HERE to attend Kelly and Tom’s free online talk hosted by IONS this Friday, February 6th at 11 AM PST/2 PM EST

    If you aren’t caught up on parts and 1 & 2 of this series, you’ll want to start there. You can find the full episodes here:

    Referenced in this episode:

    TIMESTAMPS01:34 Recap of Previous Episodes

    02:31 Upcoming Live Event Announcement

    03:19 Introduction to Tom Matte and Upsight

    05:13 Tom's Journey to Scientific Validation

    07:29 The IONS Study and Its Findings

    11:24 Understanding Brainwave Patterns

    20:27 Implications and Future Directions

    26:16 Tom's Personal Upsight Readings

    31:44 Exploring Non-Local Consciousness

    33:11 Challenging Current Models of Reality

    39:10 The Filter Hypothesis and Anomalous Experiences

    46:03 Scientific Insights from Non-Human Intelligence

    49:22 The Broader Pattern of Anomalous Experiences



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    Fan favorite, James Madden, has a brand new project with his brilliant co-host Jared Zimmerer called The Great Dangerous Books Podcast. Check out this episode to catch the vibe of the show, and if you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. 


    Get Messengers of Deception by Jacques Vallée


    Subscribe to The Great Dangerous Books Podcast

    Spotify

    Apple Podcasts

    YouTube


    In this episode, Jim and Jared discuss the complexities of the UFO phenomenon with special guest Kelly Chase, focusing on Jacques Vallee's influential work 'Messengers of Deception.' They explore themes of manipulation, the unconscious, and the power of images in shaping belief systems. The conversation delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, the dangers of ontological shock, and the need for critical thinking in the field of ufology. Throughout, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and the challenges of integrating extraordinary experiences into one's worldview.


    TIMESTAMPS

    01:28 Introducing Kelly Chase and Her Work

    03:09 Exploring Jacques Vallee's 'Messengers of Deception'

    05:17 Vallee's Perspective on UFOs and Manipulation

    09:47 The Reliability of Jacques Vallee

    12:05 The Nature of Reality and Ideological Structures

    15:04 The Impact of Ontological Shock

    18:45 The Role of the Unconscious in UFO Phenomena

    22:08 The Dangers of Manipulation and Belief Systems

    27:44 Connecting Modernity and Public Manipulation

    32:56 The Internet's Oppenheimer: Valet's Perspective

    35:32 The Power of Images and Human Manipulation

    39:57 Gnosticism and the Quest for Knowledge

    44:05 The Nature of UFO Phenomena and Human Belief

    47:35 The Intersection of Science and Mythology

    52:11 Critical Inquiry and the Nature of Belief

    55:32 The Joy of Inquiry and the Dangers of Ufology


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    Published 2025-05-09

    Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs

    63 min
    Open

    Today we’re sharing a special preview of a brand-new podcast called Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs—a show that explores the haunted edges of human experience, where the spiritual, the supernatural, and the anomalous collide.

    This preview episode is split into two parts. In the first half, Kelly joins hosts Jordan, Mallory, and Tom for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation about the cultural impact of the UFO phenomenon, the power of storytelling, and what it means to navigate a world where the boundaries of reality are breaking down.

    In the second half, enjoy another episode preview where the GGU team explores abductions, Sky Watcher’s “living taxonomy” of UAP, the James Webb telescope’s latest anomalies, and what it means to stay curious in a world fraying at the seams.

    If you love Cosmosis, you're going to find a lot to sink your teeth into here.

    👉 Follow Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs here: GodsGhostsUFOs.com

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    In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.

    We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.

    Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.

    If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.

    📚 Resources and References

    Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:
    https://www.cosmosis.media/

    Join the Patreon: 
    https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismedia

    Subscribe to Cosmosis:
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d
    Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107

    Follow Cosmosis
    X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media

    Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ
    Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117
    Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC

    TIMESTAMPS
    02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism
    08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure
    10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident
    14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment
    21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions
    30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science
    33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee
    35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College
    39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy
    49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity
    56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives
    01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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    All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It’s been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it’s hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole. 

    But before you panic—this isn’t the end. It’s just the beginning.

    Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.

    See Karl Nell's Sol Talk

    Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality

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    The docuseries that I've spent the last year working on, Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, drops today. It would mean the world to me if you would check it out. It's currently available in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. We're working on more international options, but it's an expensive and complicated process, so thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through that. 

    Watch Cosmosis on Apple TV

    Watch Cosmosis on Amazon Prime

    Watch Cosmosis on YouTube

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    In the long-awaited part two of the Through the Looking Glass series, host Kelly Chase is back to tell the bizarre story of the events following her anomalous experience from part one, and how a string of unlikely events brought her to the story of an experiencer with strange psi abilities named Tom Matte. Tom developed what he describes as an interactive holographic overlay on his reality which he calls Upsight in the aftermath of dramatic mental breakdown. More than a decade later, he is still seeking answers about Upsight which he says allows him to access non-local information in fascinating ways and even communicate with NHIs. 

    After a string of unbelievable synchronicities, Kelly found that her story had become inextricably tied to Tom’s, leading her on a journey of inquiry about the nature of anomalous experiences, mental illness, addiction, and more. In this episode she dives deep into this strange tale and the insights and revelations that it spurred. 

    *****************************

    Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality Drops on Apple TV on December 30, 2024.
    Watch the Cosmosis Trailer

    *****************************

    The Institute of Noetic Sciences
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    Jesus Goes To Hollywood: A Memoir of Madness
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    Mentioned in this Episode
    Olof Rockner
    Illustrations of Upsight by Olof Rockner

    Tom’s Paper About Dark Matter & Dark Energy

    Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis

     

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    Memberships start at just $5/month.

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    Hey everyone! I just wanted to drop this quick bonus episode to let you guys know about another really exciting UFO docuseries coming out this Sunday, October 27th on MGM+ called Beyond: UFOs and the Unknown. This series from JJ Abrams’ production company Bad Robot features Whitley Strieber, Jeff Kripal, Garry Nolan, Leslie Kean, Chris Mellon, Jay Christopher King, Tim Gallaudet, Mitch Horowitz, and many more. And hey, guess what? I’m in it, too. It looks like it’s shaping up to be a fantastic show, and it is an absolute honor to be involved in this project next to so many people that I admire. 

    In this episode, I sat down with Co-Executive Producer, Kevin Lincoln to hear more about the show and about the process that he and his team went through to bring this to life. I’ve been very impressed with Kevin and his team and how far they were willing to go to chase this story down all the strange rabbit holes that you find on this path. Kevin is a very intelligent and extremely well-read guy, and this was a fun conversation that made me even more excited to watch the show. 
     

    —Kelly

     

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    In this episode of the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast, host Kelly Chase returns from a hiatus with a brand new conversation with James Madden. The episode explores themes of psychoanalysis, epistemic vulnerability, and the psychological motivations behind belief systems in ufology. Together, Kelly and Jim ponder the deeper implications of mind control, trauma, and the symbolic nature of our cultural fascination with UFOs, aiming to navigate the complex landscape of human inquiry and understanding.

    BECOME A PATRON
    Patrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.

    Memberships start at just $5/month.

    GET THE BOOK
    Get a SIGNED COPY
    Get it on Amazon

    FOLLOW
    Website
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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:00 Welcome Back to the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

    01:02 Upcoming Documentary and Personal Transformation

    02:27 A New Direction for the Podcast

    02:44 Conversation with Dr. James Madden

    04:35 Dr. Madden's Recent Work and Psychoanalysis

    06:36 Freudian Insights and Human Motivation

    10:37 Epistemic Vulnerability and Belief Systems

    15:07 Challenges in Ufology and Disclosure

    22:20 Language, Belief, and Mind Control

    25:41 Reflecting on Personal Beliefs

    26:26 Freud's Death Drive and Trauma Reenactment

    29:52 The Addictive Nature of Unfulfilled Promises

    31:08 Comparing Ufology to Sports Fandom

    33:18 Personal Struggles and Finding Meaning in Danger

    35:21 Cultural and Political Outrage Cycles

    40:28 Symbolism in Dreams and Collective Psyche

    44:29 The Unending Human Project and Self-Destruction

    46:29 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude

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    In today’s episode, I had the absolute honor of speaking with one of my personal intellectual heroes, Bernardo Kastrup. 

    Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of the Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (with a focus in ontology and philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (with a focus in reconfigurable computing and artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). He has also had a 25-year career in high-technology, having co-founded parallel processing company Silicon Hive (which was acquired by Intel in 2011). 

    Bernardo Kastrup is also the author of 11 books. I basically have an entire Kastrup shelf inmy office. His book, “Meaning In Absurdity: What Bizarre Phenomena Can Tell Us About the Nature of Reality” is, in my opinion, one of the most important books written on the UFO phenomenon. I can’t recommend it highly enough.

    Just a heads up before we begin—if you aren’t familiar with Kastrup’s thinking on analytic idealism, the first part of this interview might be a little challenging. If you stick it out, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how elegantly analytic idealism deals with some of the more mysterious aspects of the anomalous phenomena. If you’d like to learn more about analytic idealism, there are some great resources and videos that can walk you through it step-by-step. [Links in episode brief.]



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    [Links to videos on Analytic Idealism in Episode Brief]

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    TIMESTAMP
    00:00:30 Introduction
    00:04:35 How working with artificial neural networks at CERN led Bernardo to break with physicalism
    00:07:12 The difference between intelligence and consciousness00:08:36 Analytic idealism
    00:12:26 How does analytic idealism relate to the ideas of Donald Hoffman?
    00:14:38 If the world is mental, why doesn’t it behave like a dream?
    00:17:23 Bernardo’s UFO experience
    00:19:37 How UFOs repel our attention
    00:23:02 Memory and UFOs
    00:25:46 UFOs and analytic idealism
    00:30:09 Logic and finding meaning in absurdity
    00:35:11 The “call of the absurd” and the control mechanism
    00:39:27 How marketing and propaganda hijack the control mechanism
    00:42:47 Are “nuts and bolts” UAPs and high strangeness UFO encounters the same phenomenon?
    00:48:44 Bernardo’s ultraterrestrial hypothesis
    00:58:37 The rise of AI, NHIs, and the coming consciousness shift

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    This episode is going to be different, because for the first time I’m going to talk about something that I never thought I’d talk about publicly, which is my own anomalous experience and how it changed everything about my life and directly led to me starting this podcast.

    This is the story of my own highly subjective journey. I’m not asking you to believe anything that I’m saying. My own opinion about what happened to me has changed more times than I count, and I have no doubt that it will change again. My purpose in telling this story isn’t to convince you of anything, but rather to explore in as open and unflinching a way as possible, what it’s like to have an anomalous experience, and to use that as a way to discuss the many complex questions that these experiences raise.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

    THE INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCES
    I want to thank the Institute of Noetic Sciences for their collaboration, generosity, and patience with me as I’ve worked on this story. You’ll see in episodes 2 and 3 of this series how exactly they became involved in the strange tale I’m about to tell. In my opinion the work that they are doing is some of the most important work being done in the world and is helping to lay the scaffolding for a new and emergent understanding of the nature of our reality, what it means to be human, and our place in this vast and dazzling cosmos.

    I hope that if you aren’t already familiar with IONS that you’ll take some time to explore their mission and their work. And if anything in this series speaks to you and you have a little extra give, please consider making a donation to help support IONS into the future.

    To make a gift, visit noetic.org/give.


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    Today we are going to be continuing our Disclosure Field Guide series. As the disclosure narrative continues to unfold, this series seeks to offer a roadmap for those trying to make sense of just what exactly is going on in this strange and confounding moment in our human history.

    In the first episode, we talked about how to deal with the ontological shock of recognizing that the world that we live in is not what we were told, and how to get reoriented within that new paradigm. In part two, we’re going to go a step further by diving into the history and structure of the institutionalized secrecy that has kept the reality of the UFO phenomenon hidden in plain sight for decades.

    This episode was guest written by Mark Burchick. To find out more about Mark, click on the episode brief below.

    Follow Mark on Twitter.



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    Content Warning: Sexual assault

    In this episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with someone that I regard to be one of the best minds and brightest lights in this field, Whitley Strieber. Whitley Strieber is an author of both fiction and nonfiction books, perhaps the most famous of which is his pioneering 1987 book Communion, which detailed his experience of abduction that occurred in the winter of 1985. Since then, Whitley has made many other contributions to the field including his most recent book entitled Them, and the book Super Natural which he co-wrote with Jeffrey J. Kripal, both of which have been referenced several times on this podcast. Whitley is also the host of the long-running Dreamland podcast. You can find links to all of this and more in the episode brief.

    Whitley’s work has been instrumental to my thinking and growth in this space, and I’m so grateful for both his courage and generosity in sharing his time and his insights.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

    MORE FROM WHITLEY STRIEBER
    Books by Whitley Strieber
    Dreamland Podcast
    Unknown Country
    Follow Whitley on X

    MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
    Terrible, Glorious, & Useful by Trevor Shikaze

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    Dean Radin, Ph.D., is a prominent figure in the field of parapsychology, known for his extensive research and publications on psychic phenomena. As the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) and author of influential books such as "The Conscious Universe" and "Entangled Minds," Radin has played a pivotal role in investigating and promoting the scientific understanding of psi phenomena, including telepathy, clairvoyance, and psychokinesis.

    His work, characterized by its interdisciplinary approach and rigorous statistical analysis, has significantly contributed to the academic and public discourse on the legitimacy and implications of psychic experiences. Radin's efforts have been instrumental in advocating for the open-minded and scientific exploration of these often-controversial subjects within the broader context of consciousness studies.

    Before joining the research staff at IONS in 2001, he held appointments at AT&T Bell Labs, Princeton University, University of Edinburgh, and SRI International. Dr. Radin is author or coauthor of hundreds of technical articles, some 125 peer-reviewed journal articles, four dozen book chapters, and four best-selling, popular books. Links are in the episode brief if you want to learn more.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

    DONATE TO IONS
    IONS scientific research and free programs are entirely funded by generous gifts from members and donors. Make a gift today at noetic.org/give.

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    Today, I bring you something truly special. In this episode we’re welcoming Diana Walsh Pasulka back to the show to discuss her groundbreaking new book, Encounters: Experiences with Non-Human Intelligences. Encounters is a worthy and deeply challenging follow-up to American Cosmic, which we’ve talked about extensively on this show. I hope you’ll all read it, because we’ll definitely return to those ideas again and again.

    I want to say ahead of time that this episode is going to be a little less accessible than the content I usually release here, and that is intentional. Diana has been doing the podcast circuit to support the launch of Encounters, and there have been some really phenomenal interviews going into the specifics of the book. In particular, I recommend her recent appearances on Somewhere In The Skies and That UFO Podcast—both did a great job of diving into the characters and experiences portrayed in the book, and they are worth your time.

    Hardcore listeners of the show will know that, over the last year, my thinking around the subject of UFOs has been deeply influenced by Plato’s Cave, and particularly by a somewhat radical read on what it has to teach us that was first introduced to me by Diana and frequent guest of the show, James Madden. It was actually in one of Diana’s classes on UFOs and the Cave where I first met Jim, and eventually struck up a friendship. And I’ve spent the last 18 months processing and integrating the things I’ve learned from them both. I’m profoundly grateful for what that process has opened up to me, not just in terms of my understanding of the phenomenon, but with regard to the meaning and possibilities inherent in human experience.

    On November 27th, Jim will also be releasing his first book on the UFO topic titled Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World which is being published by my new publishing house, Ontocalypse Press. Back in October, I had the absolute pleasure of finishing up the edits on Jim’s book, while simultaneously reading an advance copy of Diana’s and I was fascinated by the interplay between the ideas in both. I found myself thinking that the episode that I really wanted to make with regard to both of these phenomenal books would be one that didn’t involve me, and in which Diana and Jim were given free reign to explore a conversation on their own. Luckily they agreed, and the result is the stunning conversation that I have the privilege of sharing with you today.

    This episode is definitely challenging, but for those of you who’ve been following along on this journey, you’re in for a real treat.

    I have links to both Jim and Diana’s books in the episode brief so you can get your hands on those if you haven’t already. In my opinion these are two of the best and most important books about the UFO phenomenon published in recent memory, and both are destined to be classics of the field.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

    MORE FROM DIANA WALSH PASULKA
    Encounters: Experiences with Non-Human Intelligence
    American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology
    Twitter


    MORE FROM JAMES MADDEN
    Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs. Philosophy, and the End of the World
    Thinking About Thinking: Mind and Meaning in the Era of Techno-Nihilism
    Substack
    Twitter

    GET LIVESTREAM TICKETS: An Inquiry Into Anomalous Experience & The Phenomenon
    Dec 9, 2023
    Featuring: Diana Walsh Pasulka, Michael Masters, Tim Gallaudet, Paul H. Smith, Josh Cutchin, Peter Skafish, and Leslie Kean.

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    MUSIC
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    After months of work, its finally time to share with you all what I've been working on.

    Welcome to the Ontocalypse.

    Learn more about Ontocalypse Productions:
    Website: ontocalypse.com
    Twitter/X: @ontocalypse
    Email: info@ontocalypse.com



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    Today we welcome James Madden back to the show. As “spooky season” draws to a close, I didn’t want to miss the chance to explore some of the darker themes that have been inspiring both Jim’s recent work, and our ongoing conversation about the nature of the UFO phenomenon—specifically the paranoia that comes from our uncanny encounters with things that lie just beyond the limits of our own personal caves.

    You can find Jim’s most recent musings on his substack in a piece entitled Specters of the Thinking Machine: The Uncanny Suggestion of the Non-human within the Human, which I have linked up in the episode brief. In this episode we’ll be exploring the themes of that article, as well as exploring a work that has become something of a touchstone for me in my exploration of the darker contours of the UFO phenomenon, the phenomenal docuseries, Hellier.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

    FOLLOW JAMES MADDEN
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    Substack
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    WATCH HELLIER

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    MUSIC
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    In the first episode of this series, we dive into the mystery of the ranch and plot our path forward. We discuss:

    🛸 What John Keel saw as the biggest blunder of ufological investigation (and how to avoid it)
    🛸 The conversation that convinced Jacques Vallée that science will never provide the full answer on UFOs (and how to proceed anyway)
    🛸 The reason Brandon Fugal says there may be a “precognitive, sentient, non-human intelligence” on the ranch
    🛸 The 6-Layer Model of Anomalous Phenomena (Vallée & Davis)
    🛸 The Control Mechanism (Vallée)
    🛸 Window Areas (Keel)
    🛸 The UFO as Hyperobject (James Madden)
    🛸 And much more



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    I’m so excited about today’s episode because I think it’s been a long time coming. This episode isn’t about UFOs, per se, but it is about something that often happens to people when they begin looking into this topic—or other topics that challenge our consensus reality—which is the sudden appearance of profound synchronicities.

    I hear from dozens of listeners of the podcast everyday, and one of the things that people reach out to me about most is to tell me that after they started listening to the podcast they suddenly started encountering strings of bizarre and improbable synchronicities in their lives. I’ve heard that exact thing from more people than I could ever get back to—and if you’re one of those people, I just want you to know that I’ve heard you, and I wanted to do an episode about this very phenomenon that I hope can serve as sort of roadmap in beginning to understand and integrate what synchronicities are and how you can best ride the wave of the improbable in your own lives.

    And I couldn’t think of anyone better to join me in this conversation than today’s guest—the woman who literally wrote the book on strange coincidences—Sharon Hewitt Rawlette. I’ve been lucky enough to meet Sharon and hear her speak at two different conferences in the last year—both December’s Inquire Anomalous conference in NYC, and Rice University’s Archive’s of the Impossible in May—and both times I was blown away by the depth and ingenuity of her thinking. Sharon has the ability to make complex ideas easy to grok, and every time I hear her speak I walk away with a new perspective and understanding. I’ll link up both of those talks in the episode description if you’d like to check them out.

    Sharon Hewitt Rawlette is a philosopher who writes for both popular and scholarly audiences on the topics of consciousness, anomalous experience, ethics, and spirituality. Before launching her career as an independent writer and researcher, she earned her PhD in philosophy from New York University. She currently serves on the board of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies as well as being a supporting researcher for the International Centre for Reincarnation Research. She has published four books and in 2021 was named a runner-up in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest for her essay “Beyond Death,” on the best evidence for the survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death.

    The book that we’ll be referencing today is Sharon’s book entitled The Source and Significance of Coincidences. And if you have any interest in this topic, I really can’t recommend this book enough. Sharon attacks this topic from every conceivable angle, and the extensive table of contents makes it an invaluable reference tool when you want to dig a little deeper into strange coincidences that occur in your own life. [links in episode brief]



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    Today, we have a very special guest on the show, Dr. Jeffrey Kripal. Dr. Kripal is an esteemed scholar and author in the study of religion, focusing particularly on the esoteric, mystical, and paranormal dimensions of human experience. He serves as the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University. He is the author of several phenomenal books including The Superhumanities, Mutants & Mystics, Super Natural (which he co-authored with Whitley Strieber), and The Flip.



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    EPISODE BRIEF

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    In this episode we welcome back my dear friend and friend of the show, Dr. James Madden. This is the third episode that we’ve done together, and I’m sure that it won’t be the last. My interviews with James Madden have become some of my most downloaded episodes, and so I know you guys love hearing from him. And I love talking to him, so we’re just going to keep doing it.

    The deeper we dive into the phenomenon, the more necessary it becomes to not just interrogate what we think, but how we think—and to find new frameworks to help us do so. A philosophical approach gives the means to do that. And I’ve been so grateful to Jim for how generous he’s been with his time and his thoughts as we navigate these deeper waters.

    As you all know, over the past several months Plato’s Cave has become a central touchstone of this podcast. It’s an idea I keep returning to, again and again, because as my own trip down the rabbit hole continues, I continue to find new insights within it. And so today, with Jim as our guide, we’re going to return to the Cave, armed with the new ideas we’ve developed over these past several months, and see what new revelations might reveal themselves.

    With this episode we’ll also be returning to our discussion of Whitley Strieber’s groundbreaking new book, Them, which we discussed in the last episode. Strieber’s decades of deep research and thinking on the topic of non-human intelligence as well as his own ongoing contact experiences have led him to develop a nuanced, challenging, and at times unsettling, understanding of “the others”—including how they operate at the fringes of our awareness and what they might ultimately be trying to tell us.



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    Today’s episode is an important one, because it’s going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we’re going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I’ll likely be referring back to often.

    And that’s because today we’re diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it’s not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology.

    The paper to which I’m referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief.

    What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal.

    If there’s nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than you've probably been led to believe.



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    TIMESTAMPS

    00:00:32 Introduction
    00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms
    00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity
    00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI
    00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology
    00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies
    00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis
    00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical
    00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical
    00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological
    00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological
    00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic
    00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural
    00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology
    00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem
    00:45:42 Semiotics
    00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem
    00:54:12 Conclusions
    00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants
    01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees”
    01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _ship

    MUSIC
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    In the third and final chapter of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series we explore emerging theories with regards to the nature of reality and consciousness that have the potential to fix what’s broken with “the official story of everything”. Specifically, we’ll be looking at the work of Jefrey Kripal, Robert Lanza, and Donald Hoffman.



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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:00:30 Introduction
    00:04:33 A New Paradigm Emerges
    00:09:52 The Flip
    00:13:41 —Triggering The Flip
    00:14:18 —The Impact Of The Flip
    00:14:56 —Where the Traditional Materialist View Fits
    00:15:46 —Full Disclosure
    00:17:17 Biocentrism
    00:20:35 —The Goldilocks Universe
    00:22:42 —If A Tree Falls In The Forest Does It Make A Sound?
    00:29:55 —Where Is The Universe?
    00:34:58 —The Participatory Universe & Quantum Mechanics
    00:36:21 —Space-Time Is Not Fundamental
    00:43:13 The Case Against Reality
    00:44:06 —How Evolution Hides The Truth
    00:46:33 —The Interface Theory of Perception
    00:48:22 —Objects As Mental Constructs
    00:49:48 —Space-Time Is Doomed
    00:50:42 Putting It All Together
    00:50:55 —Recognizing Our Uber-Umwelt
    00:57:29 —Consciousness—Not Space-Time—Is Fundamental
    01:00:59 Conclusion

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    In this episode, we do a deep-dive on the historic UFO hearing held by the House Oversight Committee featuring witnesses David Grusch, David Fravor, and Ryan Graves.



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    As we look forward to next week's hearing, we're discussing concerns about the witnesses, the stunning allegations from members of Congress, and what we should expect in the week to come.



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    In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. As the community continues to metabolize the stunning allegations by high-level intelligence official turned UFO whistleblower, David Grusch, and with more people waking up to the significance of this story everyday—the thing I’m hearing the most is just that people want to talk. We want to connect about this. If there’s anything that I’ve learned over the past few years it’s that this process of dismantling our consensus reality and coming to grips with a new one that shakes the foundations of every paradigm we have is a team sport. We’re meant to do these things in community.

    Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with a bunch of really bright, like-minded people that I’ve met through doing this work, and it was honestly magical. We’ve come a long way in this conversation with the public-at-large, but for most of us who have a deep interest in this topic, we still find ourselves censoring and compartmentalizing to protect ourselves from the stigma we might face for simply considering these ideas. And so being able to gather with a group of people and let down those walls and give voice to the thoughts and hopes and anxieties that emerge when you’re coming to terms with the realities of a highly advanced, non-human presence on this planet can be a massive relief. It’s healing and I’d argue that it’s necessary.

    But I know how rare those moments are, and I know that there are so many people who are more than ready to have those conversations, but who still haven’t found a safe place for that. And so I wanted to do my best to bring one of those conversations to you.
    So this week, I sat down with my friend and colleague, Nathan, to chat about what this journey has been like, some of the stumbling blocks we’ve hit along the way, and how we can move forward into this strange new reality in a way that is healthy and productive. And I knew that Nathan would be the perfect person to have that conversation with.

    Nathan uses a mononym because, like so many in the community—including, I assume, many of you listening—he’s a serious guy with a serious job who doesn’t necessarily want to advertise his interest in UFOs. But though you won’t find his last name online, what you will find is a bunch of phenomenal work. Nathan is the co-host of two great podcasts—Liminal Phrames on which he collaborates with Darren King (AKA ExoAcademian), and Calling All Beings, which he co-pilots along with a bunch of other wonderful contributors in the space including D.J., Deb, Leah Prime, and a rotating lineup of other friends.

    What I appreciate so much about Nathan is his rational yet deeply human-centered approach to the UFO phenomenon. He manages to navigate the deepest and most treacherous waters of this topic while still remaining grounded and without ever losing focus on the things that matter most—our relationships and connections with each other. Nathan is exactly the kind of friend that you’d want to have this kind of conversation with, and I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did. And may we all move forward from this episode with the intention of being that kind of friend for others who will soon be going through this, too.



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    Today, we’re circling back to an idea that we visited in one of the earliest episodes of the podcast—the extratempestrial model. Sometimes also referred to as the future human hypothesis, the extratempestrial model is the idea that the UFOs phenomenon might represent advanced humans and human descendents who are traveling here from another point in time.

    I’ll admit to struggling with this idea at first. Time travel has always seemed a little too clunky and a little too hokey to be taken seriously. But as so often happens on this trip down the rabbit hole, the more I learned and the more my perspective began to swell and shift to accommodate the strange new realities I was exploring, the more what once seemed like a kind of crazy idea to me suddenly started to make a heck of a lot of sense. And I found that many of my objections had more to do with the limitations of my knowledge than the limitations of the extratempestrial model.

    So I wanted to come back around to this idea, because there is a lot there to dig into, most of which didn’t make it into the initial episode. And there are some new and updated ideas that I think are really valuable in understanding the complexities of the phenomenon. And there’s no better way to take a deep dive into this topic than with one of the people who literally wrote the book on the extratempestrial model—Dr. Michael P. Masters.

    Micahel Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. He specializes in human evolution, osteology, and anatomical sciences. Dr. Master’s work related to the phenomenon explores the potential evolutionary trajectories of humankind, linking anthropological theory to hypotheses about extraterrestrial life. He is the author of several books on the topic including Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon, The Extratempestrial Model, and his latest, a satirical science fiction novel called, Revelation: The Future Human Past.



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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:30 - Introduction
    07:20 - What Is The Extratempestrial Model?
    09:50 - The Extratempestrial Model & The Interdimensional Hypothesis
    11:29 - The Social & Biological Trends That Hint At The Extratempestrial Model
    16:32 - Technology & The “Other”
    20:48 - Technological Variability In Humans
    21:02 - The Communication Problem
    25:38 - How Technology Is Shaped By Biology
    28:52 - Exotic Bipedal Beings
    32:17 - Could Humanoid Beings Be The Result of Biomimicry?
    37:08 - Are UFOs Time Machines?
    43:50 - The Nimitz Incident
    47:18 - Rethinking The Impossible
    49:57 - The Block Universe
    59:02 - Revelation: The Future Human Past

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    In this episode, we explore the complexities of confronting the reality of UFO disclosure. Information that significantly challenges your worldview can be hard to process. In light of UFO whistleblower David Grusch’s recent allegations—that the US government is in possession of non-human craft and bodies—even those within the community who thought that they were ready for these kinds of revelations have found themselves reeling.

    In this episode, we discuss ontological shock—what it is, how to cope with it, and how to avoid the major pitfalls. And we work on beginning to resolve our ontological shock but getting ourselves reoriented in a world where nothing is as we once thought it was.

    No matter where you are in your journey, I hope this episode offers you something that you can take for the road. And if you know people who are just starting out, or who are finding themselves feeling disoriented right now in ways they can’t identify, this is a great episode to share with them.


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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:00:30 Introduction
    00:05:30 Ontological Shock
    00:07:29 The Signs of Ontological Shock
    00:08:42 The Pitfalls of Ontological Shock
    00:14:07 Resolving Ontological Shock
    00:16:47 What Exactly Are We Dealing With?
    00:19:00 How Has Perception of the UFO Phenomenon Changed Over Time?
    00:19:11 -UFOs: 1947 to Present
    00:23:48 -UFOs: Before 1947
    00:29:13 What Forces Have Shaped & Influenced The Perception Of UFOs
    00:29:44 -Cultural Context
    00:36:47 -The Government
    00:50:38 -The Media
    00:57:47 -The Phenomenon
    01:00:25 Who Can You Trust?



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    On Monday, June 5th, 2023, a story was published by The Debrief presenting claims from the first whistleblower to step forward publicly since the passing of UAP whistleblower legislation with the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act a few months ago. This whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, is a high-level member of the intelligence community, and he is claiming to have knowledge of special access programs that have recovered non-human technological craft.

    Later that same day, an excerpt from an interview with the whistleblower conducted by investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart, was aired on NewsNation in which Rusch made even more shocking claims—including the allegation that the US has also recovered the bodies of the non-human pilots of these craft.

    In this episode we do a deep dive into this story, doing our best to frame it within the great context of the disclosure movement, and ask the question: what does all this mean? And can what David Grusch is saying really be true?



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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:30 Introduction
    03:14 What Makes This Story So Significant?
    07:10 Why Wasn’t The UFO Whistleblower Story In The New York Times?
    10:02 What Led Up To This?
    10:17 -Luis Elizondo & the 2017 New York Times Article
    12:31 -The UAP Task Force
    14:02 -AARO
    16:50 -2023 NDAA
    17:10 What Is David Charles Grusch?
    20:10 Who Did Grusch Talk To?
    20:42 What Did Grusch Tell Congress?
    23:35 Wait—So David Grusch Never Saw The Craft Or Bodies?
    27:19 How Do We Know David Grusch Is Who He Says He Is?
    27:57 -Karl E. Nell
    28:27 -Christopher Mellon
    29:13 -Jonathan Grey
    30:43 -Jim Shell
    31:32 Retaliation and Disclosure of Urgent Concerns
    34:02 David Grusch’s Interview with Ross Coulthart
    37:08 Thoughts on the Interview
    40:23 The Implications of Grusch’s Allegations
    47:57 Pentagon Response
    48:14 What Can We Do?

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    In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we’ll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we’ll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.


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    BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLAND
    The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee
    The Unseen
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    Today we’re diving into Part 2 of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series. If you haven’t listened to that part 1 yet, I highly recommend that you do so first. It’s linked in the episode brief.

    For many who take the trip down the UFO rabbit hole, there comes a point where you find yourself asking much bigger questions about reality. It boils down to this:

    The UFO phenomenon is impossible by every single measure that we use to determine such things, and yet it is. And the existence of the impossible posits that the models that we use to determine what is possible and what isn’t are irretrievably flawed. There is no other logical explanation. Frankly, if UFOs don’t make you question the nature of your reality, you haven’t understood them.
    In part 1 of this series, we took a closer look at the most fundamental mean-making models that we have starting with the very origins of the universe. And I made the case that very little about this narrative makes any kind of rational sense, and that its only real utility lies in explaining things away without actually explaining them at all. When exposed to the harsh light of objective interrogation, the consensus view of reality quickly dissipates like morning fog.

    Plato’s Cave has become a touchstone in this podcast because it provides the perfect framework for discussing the process of pursuing this line of questioning. And as we begin to recognize that consensus reality is little more than a shadowplay on the wall, the inevitable questions arise:

    Where are we? What is this place? And what is the shadowplay meant to conceal?

    We discussed back in episode 18 in my first interview with James Madden that humans are natural cave builders. All of the greatest achievements of civilization have required that we be able to create shared worldviews and agreed upon meanings for things. It’s our superpower every bit as much as it is our weakness. And I think it’s important to keep in mind that just because we find ourselves in a cave doesn’t necessarily mean that someone put us there. The walls of the cave could be entirely self-created.

    And yet, when you find yourself tied up in a cave and recognize that the very nature of your reality has been concealed, seemingly intentionally, it’s impossible not to wonder about who your potential captors might be–and about what strange new world might be waiting for you outside its walls.

    Over the past several years a strange and disturbing idea has been popularized by everyone from futurists to tech billionaires–namely that we are living in a simulation. Could this be the explanation for the strange position in which we find ourselves? Could Plato’s Cave be more than just an allegory? Could what we perceive as our reality actually be our prison?

    It sounds like the plot of The Matrix, but the more we learn, the more likely this unsettling scenario becomes. Buckle up, because this rabbit hole is going to be a wild ride.


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    Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague’s research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.



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    FOR ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE OHIO UFO HERITAGE CONFERENCE
    Please contact Jon Horvath at theufofestival@gmail.com

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    In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Avi Loeb. Dr. Loeb was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department of Astronomy from 2011–2020. In June 2020, he was sworn in as a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. And, most relevant to today’s conversation, he is also currently the head of Harvard’s Galileo Project whose mission is the systematic scientific search for evidence of extraterrestrial technological artifacts.


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    MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
    The article written by Avi Loeb & Sean Kirkpatrick:
    Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena

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    CONTACT IN THE DESERT
    See Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.

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    Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I’m sure you’ll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato’s Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it’s definitely one of my favorites. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim’s work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.

    In this episode, we’ll be moving on to Dr. Madden’s latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It’s not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way.

    Because, in many ways, it’s been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we’re being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we’re trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed.

    What we’ve needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I’d argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.



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    DR. JAMES MADDEN’S WORK
    The Substack
    Articles Referenced In This Episode:

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    OTHER WORK REFERENCED
    Hyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology after the End of the World (Posthumanities) by Timothy Morton
    The Third Table by Graham Harman
    The Will to Power by Friedrich Nietzsche
    Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for Everyone and No One by Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Today I’m bringing you something really special. A few weeks ago, Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka reached out to connect me with someone she thought I might be interested in interviewing for the podcast. Her name is Dr. Iya Whiteley and she is a space psychologist who is featured in Diana’s upcoming book due out in November entitled, Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences.

    Given the respect that I have for Diana and her work, her recommendation alone would have been enough for me to say yes. But the more she shared with me about Dr. Whiteley and her work, it became clear to me that this was an interview that I absolutely had to do.

    This conversation touched me deeply, and I hope it speaks to you the way that it spoke to me.

    MEET DR. IYA WHITELEY
    Dr. Iya Whiteley is a training developer for Astronauts with a background in Clinical Psychology and Cognitive Engineering. She leverages her skills and expertise, combined with her own insights and experiences as a pilot, skydiver, and scuba diver, to design both equipment and training programmes to improve the performance of highly trained professionals in extreme environments, including military pilots and astronauts.

    Iya has also worked at the European Astronaut Centre (European Space Agency) in Cologne, Germany and now collaborates with NASA and the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre in Star City, Russia.

    Since having her own children, Iya has been using her unique skillset to work on laying the groundwork for a universal “Earth language”. To this end, she has designed high contrast black and white visual books for newborns to tap into their full developmental potential and give them the best possible start on our unique planet Earth.

    MEET DR. DIANA WALSH PASULKA

    Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.



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    DR. IYA WHITELEY LINKS
    Contact Dr. Iya Whiteley [Private Practice Website]
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    DR. DIANA PASULKA LINKS
    American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology
    PRE-ORDER: Encounters: Explorations with Extraterrestrial and Other Non-Human Intelligence (Out Nov. 7, 2023)
    Follow Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka on Twitter

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    In many ways, our trip down the rabbit hole has been leading us, inevitably, to this episode. It’s in this episode that we reach a decisive inflection point. Nothing will be the same after this—maybe not even you.

    Over the previous 18 episodes, I have done my best to make the case, not only that the UFO phenomenon is real, but that the complexity, ubiquity, and unintelligibility of the phenomenon are so great as to suggest that many of our most fundamental assumptions about the nature of reality itself may be incorrect.

    This episode is my closing argument in the case of The Phenomenon vs. Consensus Reality. And when it’s done, I hope that you’ll agree with me that it’s time to burn it all down. Or at the very least, I hope you’ll agree that perhaps it’s time to consider some new models of reality that have the potential to reintroduce meaning and intelligibility into our broken world where impossible things won’t stop happening.

    In this episode, we’ll begin by talking about what’s broken with our current models including the Big Bang, the hard problem of consciousness, quantum mechanics, and space-time. And we begin to ask, what do our broken models suggest about the nature of the cave that we find ourselves in? And what does all of this have to do with UFOs?



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    LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
    If these ideas are new to you, you might find it helpful to go back and listen to the previous two episodes to get greater context.
    Ep 17: An Interview with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka
    Ep 18: An Interview with Dr. James Madden

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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:00:30 Introduction
    00:04:03 The “Official Story of Everything”
    00:07:00 The Dream of the Cave
    00:13:55 Everything You Know Is Wrong
    00:19:45 The Big Bang
    00:29:28 The Ghost in the Machine
    00:37:35 Music Break
    00:38:32 The Hard Problem of Consciousness
    00:45:52 Quantum Mechanics Breaks Everything
    00:55:22 Space-Time Is Doomed
    00:57:35 The Emperor Has No Clothes
    01:01:25 The Walls of the Cave

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    In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with Dr. James Madden, professor of philosophy at Benedictine University. He is a martial artist, fitness coach, and philosopher with particular interest in the philosophy of mind, aesthetics, philosophy of religion, Aristotelianism, and phenomenology.

    If you’ll recall from the last episode, Diana mentioned Dr. Madden as someone who shared her “spooky” interpretation of the Cave. I first met Jim when he was a speaker in one of Diana’s classes over the summer on this subject, and I really enjoyed learning from him. He has a really coherent way of placing the Cave within its proper context both within Plato’s Republic and within its historical context that opens up these ideas in inspiring and challenging ways.

    So that’s where we’ll start, with an hour-long deep dive into Plato’s Cave, and what it implies for the nature of both reality and the UFO phenomenon. And then in the second half of the interview, we’ll turn to Dr. Madden’s latest philosophical work with regard to the phenomenon including what Heidegger reveals to us about the life and work of Godfather of Modern Ufology, Jaques Vallee, what Aristotle’s natural theology suggests about the potential nature of non-human intelligence, and how that work is being continued in the modern day by Dr. Jeffrey Kripal of Rice University. And finally, we’ll explore Dr. Madden’s fascinating hypothesis for the origins of the UFO phenomenon through the concept of the “umwelt”.

    I hope you all enjoy this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. This is my longest episode to date because we were having such a blast that I completely lost track of time. And when I went back to listen again, there wasn’t anything that I wanted to cut out. If you enjoy wading out into the deep end of the UFO phenomenon, this episode is for you.



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    LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
    If these ideas are new to you, you might find it helpful to go back and listen to the previous two episodes to get greater context.
    Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race
    Ep 17: An Interview with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka

    GO TO EPISODE BRIEF FOR ALL RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE

    FIND MORE OF DR. JAMES MADDEN’S WORK
    Dr. James Madden’s Website
    Dr. James Madden’s Substack
    Online Course: Heidegger’s The Question Concerning Technology
    UFO Realism and the Uber-Umwelt
    Aristotle, Myth, and Extraterrestrial Intelligences

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    May 5th & 6th at the historic Hope Hotel at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

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    Music Break: Golden Hour by Jonas Kolberg




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    In this episode, I’m bringing you an interview with one of my personal heroes, Dr. Diana Walsh Paslka. Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka is a professor of religious studies and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. She holds a bachelor’s from UC Davis, a master’s from Berkeley, and a Ph.D. from Syracuse University. She is the author of Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory in Catholic Devotional and Popular Culture and American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology, which we will be discussing in this interview.



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    LISTEN TO THESE EPISODES FIRST
    If you aren’t already familiar with Diana’s work, you’ll definitely want to start with these two episodes before listening to this interview to get the full context of our conversation.
    Ep 11: Nazis & UFOs [Pt. 1]: The Emergence Of UFO Lore
    Ep 16: The Sky Calls To Us: The Occult Origins Of The Space Race

    GET DR. DIANA WALSH PASULKA’S BOOKS
    American Cosmic: UFO’s, Religion Technology
    Heaven Can Wait: Purgatory In Catholic Devotional And Popular Culture

    MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE
    The Question Concerning Technology by Martin Heidegger
    What Is Called Thinking? by Martin Heidegger
    Discourse On Thinking by Martin Heidegger
    I, Product by Jacques Vallee
    Society of the Spectacle by Guy Dubord
    Republic by Plato
    Dr. James Madden
    Marie Mutsuki Mockett
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Nope

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    TIMESTAMPS
    00:00:30 Intro
    00:05:03 How does a scholar of religion end up writing a book about UFOs? [Backstory of American Cosmic]
    00:10:57 Why the next big breakthrough in the space program will come from the field of religious studies.
    00:14:33 What can we learn from studying Tyler’s protocols?
    00:18:14 What should we make of the simplicity of Tyler’s protocols?
    00:22:43 What is Tyler communicating with?
    00:26:07 What’s going on in the space program?
    00:30:25 Civil religion & UFOs
    00:34:11 Having a front row seat to the birth of a myth/belief/religion
    00:38:15 Diana’s transition from UFO atheist to UFO agnostic
    00:43:39 “The Question Concerning Technology” by Martin Heidegger
    00:57:36 What does the Monolith in Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey tell us about the relationship between media and technology?
    01:04:39 Jordan Peele’s Nope and the relationship between media and belief
    01:08:32 Society of the Spectacle
    01:13:17 Plato’s Cave
    01:24:21 Plato’s Republic & the impossibility of justice
    01:26:45 Ontological shock & re-entering the cave
    01:29:34 The danger of Technology
    01:34:48 What to expect from Diana’s new book

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    In this episode, we’re discussing one of the most profound transitions in human history–that of our evolution from a terrestrial species to a spacefaring one. And as we examine the history and origins of the space programs in both the United States and the Soviet Union, we discover one of the most remarkable and baffling stories ever told, hiding in plain sight.

    To put it simply, many of the fathers of modern space flight were occultists who believed themselves to be in direct communication with non-human intelligences who were helping to guide their work. While their claims sound too extraordinary to even be considered, the startling breadth and innovation of the work that they claim sprang for this paranormal communication makes it difficult not to wonder if perhaps there might have been something to those claims.

    We’ll discuss the work of Jack Parsons, an intrepid young rocket scientist and occultist who palled around with the likes of Aleister Crowley, L. Ron Hubbard, and Howard Hughes, whose remarkable life was cut short by his mysterious death at 37. And we’ll also explore the work of Russian Cosmists like Konstantine Tsiolkovsky whose prophetic work seemingly foretold the intricate details of space flight decades before Yuri Gagarin became the first man in space.

    And once again, we’ll look at Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka’s phenomenal book American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology clues to whether these occult practices might still be in use among top members of the space program today. And the answers are, frankly, shocking.

    In this episode we’ll begin to ask some of the most important questions that will follow us on our journey forward:

    What is the occult? What does the occult have to do with UFOs? How is it that so many “impossible” things seem to have a basis in reality? And what do we do when our models of reality stop working?

    Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole.



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    READ THE 2022 UFO REPORT - Office of the Director of National Intelligence

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    Welcome back to The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast. Today we turn our attention to our nearest neighbor, and the anchor for some of those most compelling and mysterious stories in the UFO lore—the Moon.

    Hanging serenely in the night sky, its face unchanging aside from the precise pendulum swing of the lunar cycle, the Moon is our constant companion. It’s the one heavenly body that we can easily observe with the naked eye, and as such it feels deeply familiar to us.

    But what if there is more to the Moon than we ever realized? It’s an unnerving thought to consider that the Moon as we know it might not be what we think it is at all. But that’s exactly what the deep UFO lore surrounding the Moon suggests.

    In this episode we’ll discuss theories for the origins of the Moon (including the theory that it might be an alien superstructure), the mysteries surrounding the Apollo missions and the moon landing, what some of the top astronauts from the early space program have said about the Moon, and we’ll even tell a story about Neil Armstrong that I, frankly, straight up didn’t believe the first time I heard it.



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    The Full Ross Coulthart Interview On Theories Of Everything With Curt Jaimungal

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    Music Break One: Insomniac’s Dream by Sémø
    Moon Landing: No One Is Out Here by Yehezkel Raz
    Outro: Moon by Space DovesSupport the show

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    In the final installment of our series on Nazis & UFOs, we’re doing a deep dive on one of the most beloved—and most mysterious—stories in the lore: that of Admiral Byrd, Operation Highjump, and Hollow Earth.

    Rumors have abounded for decades that, after WWII, what remained of the Third Reich escaped to a sprawling secret base under the ice in Antarctica—the mythical Station 211. But could this story be more than a mere wartime legend?In 1947, the largest military operation since the end of the war embarked from the United States to Antarctica, allegedly on a scientific expedition. But could Operation Highjump, lead by famed explorer and America hero, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, have had another mission? Could they have been in search of the fabled Nazi base?

    What they found in Antarctica has been a matter of much debate, with some saying that they encountered secret Nazi technology—including the infamous flying saucer—and still others claim that Admiral Byrd made contact with a super advanced race of humanoids from Hollow Earth.

    Could any of this possibly be true? We’ll investigate and find out.



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    Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
    Airflow by Evgeny Bardyuzha
    Free Radicals by Stanley Gurvich

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    In part 3 of the Nazis & UFOs series we explore the soure of some of the most outlandish and intriguing stories in UFO lore—Antarctica.

    In 1938, Nazi Germany made an expedition to Antarctica where they claimed territory. What could have compelled them to make that investment of time and resources in the lead up to WWII? Were they looking for something? And could they have found it?After the war, rumors swirled that what remained of the Third Reich escaped to secret bases in Antarctica, and from there the mystique only grew. Since then, a baroque mythology has sprung up around the southernmost continent, with each new twist and turn only adding to mystery.

    Today, we’ll dive into some of the most popular—and bizarre—theories as to what the Nazis may have found in Antarctica—including the lost city of Atlantis, an unknown ancient culture from the distant past, secret alien bases, and more.



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    GOOGLE EARTH LINKS
    The Azores
    The Pyramid in Antarctica

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    In part 2 of our 3 part series on the intersection of Nazi and UFO lore during WWII, we’ll be diving into two major themes of this mythology: the occult and secret technology. We’ll be getting into everything in this episode: German occult clubs, Theosophy, secret technology, Die Glocke, foo fighters, the search for the Holy Grail and other relics, and more.

    And as we begin to untangle this dense and sprawling lore, we’ll see a new narrative being to emerge—one of humanity grappling with the unthinkable.



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    MENTIONED IN EPISODE
    UFOs Before Roswell: European Foo-Fighters 1940-1945 by Graeme Rendall

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    Music Break 1: My Lord by Yarin Primack
    Music Break 2: Jakub Pietras

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    In part one of this 3-part series on the UFO lore connected to WWII and Nazi Germany, we begin by doing a deep dive into the emergence of UFO lore itself. While there is a ton of UFO lore connected to WWII, what is largely considered to be the first modern UFO sighting didn’t happen until 1947—2 years after the war ended. So to understand exactly what was going on during WWII, we need to first understand, not just how UFO lore first emerged, but how belief systems in general emerge and evolve over time.

    We’ll talk about the ontological complexity of the 20th century, the sequence of events in 1947 that shaped our modern understanding of the phenomenon, and dive deeper into the mystery surrounding the lore to ask some of the bigger questions. This includes one question that I never thought I’d ask, which is—could the emergence of UFO mythology be the seeds of a modern religion?A massive shout out to Diana Walsh Pasulka for her incredible book, American Cosmic, which helped me look at the phenomenon in a whole new light and played a big role in shaping this episode.



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    MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
    American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology by D.W. Pasulka
    In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs and Impossible Science by Ross Coulthart
    Luis Elizondo on EarthFiles with Linda Moutlon Howe

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    In the final part of this 3 part series, A Rational Approach to Ancient Aliens, we finally get to the good stuff—non-human intervention and cyclical global cataclysms. We’ll start by taking a tour of some of the most mysterious archeological sites in the world: from Puma Punku in Bolivia to Baalbek in Lebanon. We’ll even talk about a sunken city off the coast of Cuba that may be 50,000 years old.

    Do these anomalous sites prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ancient alien theory is true, and that human civilization was guided—or perhaps even seeded—but a super advanced intelligence in the distant past?

    And finally, we’ll look at the evidence surrounding the cataclysm that kicked off the Younger Dryas as well as examine the possibility that a more dramatic and profound cycle of global disasters may be responsible for shaping human history.



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    Theme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson
    Music Break 1: Asturias by Alon Peretz
    Music Break 2: Ancient by Nimrod Nol

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    In this episode we dive into part 2 of our series on the concept of ancient aliens by examining whether or not the UFO phenomenon may have played some role in the emergence of human civilization.

    Human civilization is the manifestation of everything that makes the human species so unique—but how did it evolve? Where did it come from? To attempt to answer this question we’ll look at how we define civilization and how we identify it in the archeological record. We’ll look at the story of human civilization according to mainstream academics, as well as evidence that this story is incorrect.And finally, we’ll begin to discuss how the story of human civilization might be rewritten, and the role that the UFO phenomenon may have played—along with other startling possibilities.



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    Over the last seven episodes, we’ve established that the Pentagon has admitted that UFOs are real, that they are operating with impunity in our airspace, and that we don’t know what they are. We’ve talked through some of the most common explanations for what the UFO phenomenon might be, considering everything from secret human technology to future humans and from extraterrestrials to ultraterrestrials. We’ve also met some—though certainly not all of the main players in the current disclosure movement.

    Although we’ve covered a lot of ground, when it comes to understanding the full scope of the UFO phenomenon and its implications for humankind, we’ve barely scratched the surface.

    In this episode, we’ll begin to tackle some of the most fundamental questions raised by the UFO phenomenon—starting with the question of whether the UFO phenomenon may have had an influence on our ancestors in the distant past. For many, this line of questioning brings to mind Ancient Aliens, and the ancient astronaut theory, but there are other equally startling and profound possibilities that are suggested by the evidence as well—including the idea that the story of human civilization is far longer and far more dazzling that we ever imagined.

    But before we can begin to truly tackle these questions, we need to spend some time talking about the epistemology of archeology—what do we know, what can we know, and how sure are we that the established narrative of human history is correct?

    We’ll do a quick intro to epistemology, discuss some of the verification challenges that exist within archeology, explore the limits of our current dating techniques and the unique challenges that we encounter in attempting to date megalithic structures. We’ll also look at the academia and the peer review system to identify the ways that the most innovative and potentially impactful ideas can be systematically rejected and marginalized. And finally, we’ll talk about the difference between science and pseudoscience, and establish a simple framework that we can use to tell the difference between the two.



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    Music Break: Waking From The Dream by Charlie Ryan

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    In this episode, we pick up with Tom Delonge where we left off in Part 2—with the stunning and unlikely events that led to the formation of the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences and ultimately to the Pentagon’s admission that UFOs are real.

    So what happened to TTSA? What are the original TTSA members (including Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, Jim Semivan, Hal Puthoff, and Steve Justice) doing now? In this episode we’ll get an update. We’ll also explore why it is, that despite his astonishing success and ultimate vindication, that Tom Delonge continues to be a controversial figure in the UFO community.

    And finally, we’ll get to the part that everyone has been waiting for—what does Tom Delonge believe about the UFO phenomenon? It’s been confirmed that Delonge’s advisors within the government weren’t just real, but they are the very people who would know what secrets the government might be hiding about UFOs. So with this insider knowledge and guidance, one has to assume that what Delonge says publicly about his beliefs surrounding the phenomena has been shaped significantly by his exposure to and briefings by these individuals. Which is exactly why what Tom Delonge has to say about UFOs is so shocking.

    You won’t want to miss this one.


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    Hidden in plain sight, right smack dab in the middle of the growing UFO disclosure movement of the past 5 years, is a story so strange, so entirely unexpected that you wouldn’t be blamed for mistaking it for fiction—but it’s true.

    Within the events and cast of characters around the infamous New York Times article and the leaked U.S. Navy videos that confirmed the reality of the UFO phenomenon one unlikely figure stands out among the crowd of former CIA agents, aerospace executives, and other high-ranking officials—pop punk icon, Tom Delonge. But the notorious UFO enthusiast and former Blink 182 frontman doesn’t just make a cameo in this story—without him, there would likely have been no story to tell.

    In part one of this story, we’ll explore how Tom Delonge’s early life and road to stardom set him on a collision course with this important moment in history, the shocking story of how he assembled his team for the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, and the pivotal role that he played in the events that led to the Pentagon’s stunning admission that UFOs are, in fact, real.

    Hear the full interview of Ross Coulthart on Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal.



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    Music Break: Vultures! [Instrumental]
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    Although the UFO phenomenon tends to be associated with aliens, there are a few even more fantastical theories about its origins.
    Many of most respected scientists and researchers in ufology don't think that the evidence points to any of the more conventional explanations—and that whoever is creating UFOs might not be from the stars at all, but from right here on Earth.
    But how could an advanced civilization be here without our knowledge? In this episode we explore the possible answers.
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    Although the UFO phenomenon tends to be associated with extraterrestrial visitors from other worlds, could the explanation lie closer to home? Could these craft actually be humans from the future?

    Since the publishing of his ground-breaking book, In Plain Sight: An Investigation Into UFOs & Impossible Science, acclaimed investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart has begun to open up about a startling claim he says is coming from his contacts at the highest levels of our government—that UFOs are future human technology. Could this astonishing claim possibly be true?

    We dive into this question on this week's episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast.



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    In this episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast we dive into the question of whether UFOs could actually be human technology.

    Could this be a massive government cover up? Could disclosure be a psyop designed to consolidate power and instigate war? Or could this technology belong to one of our adversaries?

    And what would it take for us to consider other more "exotic" alternatives? Does it even make sense to consider non-human technology as a possibility?

    The answers might surprise you. Welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole.



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    The Pentagon has admitted that UFOs are real, that they violate our airspace with impunity, and that we have no idea what they are.

    An elite group of military intelligence insiders—including the former head of the Pentagon's secret UFO program, Luis Elizondo—have stepped forward to advocate for greater transparency around this baffling phenomenon. In May of 2022, Congress held the first hearings on the topic in over 50 years.

    So what the heck is going on? Could this possibly be true?

    The UFO Rabbit Hole is a structured, rational, science-based deep dive into these puzzling developments in an attempt to answer that very question. Grounded enough for skeptics, accessible enough for newbs, and meticulously researched enough for the most battle-hardened ufologists, this podcast is an essential guide for anyone who wants to understand more about most the most baffling and compelling news story of our times.



    NEW Class from Dr. James Madden
    Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World
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    PRAISE FOR THE UFO RABBIT HOLE PODCAST

    Finally!
    “Kelly Chase has done what so many others have failed miserably at: discuss this topic reasonably. This subject’s landscape is littered with overinflated egos carrying on about what they claim to know and how you’d respond if only you knew what they knew to interviewers who eagerly enable their dangerously self-serving rhetoric. Enter Kelly Chase, a genuinely curious host who questions everything and claims nothing. Her approach is the best I’ve encountered anywhere.”
    —ANewLeif via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/03/22

    The best podcast on the topic
    “This is hands down the best UFO podcast around. Each episode is incredibly well researched and has a nice balance of belief and skepticism, Kelly is an incredible storyteller and she manages to easily and clearly explain complicated concepts that some struggle with. I’m convinced that if she were to turn her episode scripts into a book, it would be a bestseller.”
    —DevilBoi69x via Apple Podcasts · USA · 08/31/22

    Finally, a UFO deep-dive that feels authentic!
    “I love this topic, but it also attracts a lot of kooks due to the highly interpretive subject matter. It’s been difficult to find creators that feel like they’re doing their absolute best to remain unbiased and drive us closer to the source of truth. Kelly does an excellent job of getting us further into the rabbit hole without compromising her integrity or the trust of her audience. From the very first episode I could tell this was going to be a fun and fascinating ride, and so far I’m hooked!”
    —Tt0n0 via Apple Podcasts · USA · 10/14/22

    Brilliant!
    “This is absolutely brilliant! The integration of UFO information with philosophy has been transformative. I have leaned so much and, more importantly, think about our world in a new way.”
    —Von Economo via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/30/22

    Highly Intelligent Analysis
    “Coming from someone who has spent tens of thousands of hours researching this field, this was a refreshing delight. Dissecting this already extremely complex field is really hard. How does one lay out information on a topic which no one actually knows what’s going on? Well Kelly does a wonderful job covering the vast array of very interesting linked topics.”
    —Timfdkbshvcd via Apple Podcasts · Australia · 09/22/22

    Brilliant podcast on the phenomenon!
    “I’ve recently discovered this podcast and want to tell everyone I know to listen to it! It’s a brilliant show for absolute beginners but also for the UFO enthusiast. Kelly is so thoughtful & mapped out a vision for how to unfold this insanely complex topic. She shares many perspectives on the topic, weaving in her own synthesis and opinions as well. She is light hearted and witty while also being a fantastic researcher.”
    —Hathor1320 via Apple Podcasts · USA · 09/20/22

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