Gospel | Chapter 3: Aug 5, 1882 (Part 9) | Swami Sarvapriyananda

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the meeting with Vidya Sagar continued page one hundred and six to Vidya Sagar with a smile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what is your attitude?
[SPEAKER_01]: Before this Ram Krishna had said, can one know God through reasoning?
[SPEAKER_01]: Be his servant, surrender yourself to him and then pray to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: To Vidya Sagar with a smiley.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what is your attitude?
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar, smiling, some day I shall confide with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: All laugh, master laughing, God cannot be realized through mere scholarly reasoning.
[SPEAKER_01]: intoxicated with divine love, the master sang, who is there that can understand what mother call is, even the six darshanas.
[SPEAKER_01]: or proud powerless to reveal her.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is she, the scripture say, that is the inner self of the yogi, who is who in self discovers all his joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He, that she, that of her own sweet will inhabits every living thing, the macrocosm and the microcosm rest in the mother's womb.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now do you see how vast it is?
[SPEAKER_01]: In the Muladhara, the yogi meditates on her and in Sahasraara,
[SPEAKER_01]: who but Shiva has be held her as she really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Within the lotus wilderness, she spots inside her mate, the swan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Put note, the swan is Shiva, the absolute.
[SPEAKER_01]: When man aspires to understand her, Ram Prasad must smile to think of knowing her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, he's quite as laughable as to imagine one can swim across the boundless sea.
[SPEAKER_01]: But while my mind has understood, Alas, my heart has not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though, but a dwarf, it would still strive to make a captive of the moon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Continuing, the master said, did you notice the microcosm and microcosm rest in the mother's womb?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now do you see how vast it is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, the poet says, even the six darshanas are powerless to reveal her, she cannot be realized by means of mere scholarship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just remember who he's saying this to.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very pointed statement.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was one of the greatest scholars of his time, noted social reformer and agnostic about God.
[SPEAKER_01]: And M had pointed out, had asked him about his attitude and he had told M that I think all the philosophers, they have not really been able to express what was in their heart or they have not been able to express the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's Ramakrishna Singh, it cannot be expressed.
[SPEAKER_01]: just because it cannot be expressed does not mean it does not exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Beyond comprehension, it is so vast.
[SPEAKER_01]: He points out again from the song.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so vast, infinite.
[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, we cannot bring it within the comprehension of reasoning, of our logic, our philosophical reasoning.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beyond that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make an attempt and you can make a good attempt, but that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a share another interesting story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just heard this afternoon from very touching story.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the great Baishnava teacher, Vijay Krishna Goswami, Brahmava teacher, Vijay Krishna Goswami, used to visit Sri Ramakrishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a story about Vijay Krishna Goswami.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was told to me by the philosophers, Arindam Chakrabati earlier today.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and he had heard it as a kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the story goes like this, which Krishna Goswami was, he joined the Brahmasa much, which was a reform movement in the nineteenth century Bengal, Keshapjandra, and even before that Rajaram, Rayana.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea was, we must give up this kind of image, what shape God with form?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, God is only without form and Nira Karabat Saguna, formless, but with auspicious qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: And only present omniscient, omnipotent, loving, just all of that, but formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and when the Hindu says, with form and without form, the Brahma would say, no, only without form.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't accept that with form and all this Krishna and Kali, you know, what was, and always popular in Bengal, mostly it's either Vaishnavas or Shaktis, a worshipers of divine mother or worshipers of Krishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of that forms, we don't accept and all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vijay Krishna Goswami came from the staunch, Vaishnava family, very old Vaishnava family.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there, the deity at home was Rada and Krishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he did not want to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was studying in Calcutta, he was a young man at that time, Vijay Krishna Goswami.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was long before he met Sri Ram Krishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was very devout.
[SPEAKER_01]: He joined the Brahmas so much, and he would go to the Brahma Upasana, which is the worship ceremony day, even now they hold it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is meditation, there is singing, there is reading, and it's all formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no image, there is no picture, nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he had a dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vijay Krishna Goswami had a dream, a record in dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: One night, second night, third night, that Krishna, the deity at their home, village home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Krishna is appearing in his dream and saying, would you make a gold crown for me, small image, so make a gold crown for me, and send it for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the dream itself, he tells Krishna, I don't believe in these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, the next night, he has the dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: The third night, he has the dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he just got irritated.
[SPEAKER_01]: He went to a goldsmith's jewelers shop in Calcutta, paid money, bought gold, and had it fashioned into a small crown, and sent it to the village home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyhow, few days later, he is in the Brahmaoparsana sitting down, singing a sound to the formless guard, and people around him all sitting and meditating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly, in the middle of that, he is a vision.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody else sees it, but he sees it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Krishna comes before him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the middle of that, he says to him, how do I look?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I look nice with the new golden crown?
[SPEAKER_01]: So what a beautiful, a whole idea that it's not reasonable.
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it's not reasonable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why should God have a form?
[SPEAKER_01]: God has to be formed.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's more our philosophical mind says that that is more correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is all.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is lower superstitious reward.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is far beyond our immature philosophical mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: With form, without form, the idea and redante both are appearances of the same reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: That which is without form is the same as that which is with form.
[SPEAKER_00]: then he goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: One must have faith and love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you how powerful faith is.
[SPEAKER_01]: A man was about to cross the sea from Siloan to India, which is Sri Lanka now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Viveeshan, who was the brother of Ravana and who became the king of Sri Lanka afterwards or Siloan afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: Viveeshan has said to him, tie this thing in a corner of your bearing class and you will be able to cross the sea safely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You will be able to walk on the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: but be sure not to examine it or you will sink.
[SPEAKER_01]: The man was walking easily on the water of the sea, such as the strength of faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: When having gone part of the way, he thought, what is this wonderful thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Vivision has given me that I can walk even on the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: He untied the knot and found only a leaf with the name of Rama Ritranana.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just this, he thought, and immediately he sank.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like you receive the name of God from your guru in a mantra.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the support of that, depending on that, you will walk across the ocean of samsara.
[SPEAKER_01]: Others will try to sing, some will be swept away.
[SPEAKER_01]: They will be desperate in it, but you will walk across the ocean of samsara.
[SPEAKER_01]: But faith in that little thing, the mantra given by the
[SPEAKER_01]: Guru, that faith is necessary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still remember one of the disciples, I met very senior monk when I was a Bramacharian, Balood, what sitting on a bench, I was sitting and listening to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a disciple of Swami Vigyanan and the G. I forgot in the name of that monk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Old monk, little long since passed away.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is talking to him sort of half way, solid lucky, but I can also hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we got the mantra, that is from Swami Vikyana Anandhiji.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Vikyana Anandhiji was the disciple of Sri Ramakrishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we got the mantra, we thought, he thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's just this little thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he's saying it, just this little thing and then chakling to himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again saying it, just that little thing and then chakling to himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he says, all my life, I've discovered how great that little thing is, that little mantra.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a popular saying that Hanuman jumped over the sea through his faith in Rama's name, but Rama himself had to build a bridge.
[SPEAKER_01]: If a man has faith in God, then he need not be afraid, though he may have committed sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nay, the violinists sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even this is seems incredible, but Peter, the shri Krishna himself says that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kripram Dhavati Dharmata, Apiched, Sudhura Charawapi.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if somebody has things that I have committed many sins, very soon that person will become a devout person and a holy person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very soon he says, it will not that will take time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would you say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is this great thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sammiak Bhavasita, he has decided rightly.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an important thing, has decided rightly.
[SPEAKER_01]: You once you decide God exists, God is my refuge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will hold on to the month for given by the Guru.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the best decision you can take in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you take this decision, everything else will come off its own accord.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things will flow.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very important to take the decision quickly and start walking on the path.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wednesday, Ramakrishna sang a song glorifying the power of faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: If only I can pass away repeating the God's name, how can's thousand or blessed one, with old from me, deliverance, graduate though I may be.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very beautiful, so the time of death, let me.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my only prayer that may take the name of God and pass away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then nobody can stop me from getting enlightenment, spiritual freedom, moxia, salvation, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though whatever I am, Richard, though I may be, the master continued faith and devotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: One realizes God easily through devotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is grasped through ecstasy of love.
[SPEAKER_01]: With these words, the Master sang again, how are you trying, oh my mind, to know the nature of God?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're grouping like a madman locked in a dark room.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is grasped through ecstatic love.
[SPEAKER_01]: How can you fathom him without it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Only through affirmation, never negation, can you know him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Neither through whether or not Tantra nor the Six Darshanas.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is in love's elixir that only that he delights for mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: He dwells in the body's in most depths in everlasting joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for that love, the mighty yogis practice yoga from age to age, when love evokes the Lord like a magnet draws to him the soul.
[SPEAKER_01]: He it is, says Ram Krasad, that I approach as mother, but must I give away the secret here in the marketplace?
[SPEAKER_01]: From the hints, I have given no mind, guess what that being is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It means all the such that you done in the Brahman, the absolute existence consciousness place, which is spoken about in the Upanishads, which you read about in all the Vedic texts.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is my mother, that is the one I love and worship and who is most dear to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: While singing the master went into Samadhi, he was seated on the bench facing west.
[SPEAKER_01]: The palms of his hands joined together.
[SPEAKER_01]: His body erect and motionless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone watched him expectantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar too was speechless and could not take his eyes from the master.
[SPEAKER_01]: After a time, Sri Ramakrishna showed signs of regaining the normal state.
[SPEAKER_01]: He drew a deep breath and said with a smile, the means of realizing God or ecstasy of love and devotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is one must love God.
[SPEAKER_01]: He who is Brahman is addressed as the mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: He it is says Ram Prasad that I approach as mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: But must I give away the secret here in this marketplace?
[SPEAKER_01]: From the hints, I have given no mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guess what that being is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram Prasad asks the mind only to guess the nature of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wishes it to understand that what is called Brahman in the Vedas is addressed by him as mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: He who is attributeless also has attributes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He who is Brahman is also Shakti.
[SPEAKER_01]: When Satov has enacted, he is called Brahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Satov has the creator, preserve, or destroyer, he is called the primordial energy, primordial energy, Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brahman and Shakti are identical, like fire and its power to burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we talk of fire, we automatically mean also its power to burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: They gain the fire's power to burn, implies the fire itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you accept the one, you must accept the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brahman alone is addressed as the mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is because a mother is an object of great love.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is able to realize God just through love, ecstasy of feeling, devotion, love and faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to a song.
[SPEAKER_01]: As is the man's meditation, so is his feeling of love.
[SPEAKER_01]: As is the man's feeling of love, so is his gain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And faith is the root of all.
[SPEAKER_01]: If in the nectar lake of Mother Khalil's feet, my mind remains immersed of little use or worship, oblation or sacrifice, what is needed is absorption in God, loving Him intensely.
[SPEAKER_01]: The nectar lake is the lake of immortality.
[SPEAKER_01]: A man sinking in it does not die, but becomes immortal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people believe that by thinking of God too much, the mind becomes deranged, but that is not true.
[SPEAKER_01]: God is the lake of nectar, an ocean of immortality.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is called the immortal in the Vedas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sinking in it, one does not die, but for veryly transcends death.
[SPEAKER_01]: of little use or worship, oblation, so sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_01]: If a man comes to love God, he need not trouble himself much about these activities.
[SPEAKER_01]: One needs a fan, only as long as there is no breeze.
[SPEAKER_01]: The fan may be laid aside, if the southern breeze blows, when what need is there of a fan, to with your saga.
[SPEAKER_01]: The activities that you are engaged in are good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can perform them in a selfless spirit, renouncing egotism, giving up the idea that you are the doer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Through such action, one develops love and devotion to God and ultimately realizes him.
[SPEAKER_01]: The more you come to love God, the less you will be inclined to perform action.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the daughter-in-law is with child, her mother-in-law gives her less work to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: As time goes by, she is given less and less work.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the time of delivery in years, she's not allowed to do any work at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listed should hurt the child or cause some difficulty at the time of birth.
[SPEAKER_01]: By these philanthropic activities, you are really doing good to yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can do them disinterestedly, your mind will become pure and you will develop love of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you have that love, you will realize him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Man cannot really help the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: God alone does that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He who has created the Sun and the Moon who has put love for their children in parents' hearts, endowed noble souls with compassion and holy men and devotees with divine love.
[SPEAKER_01]: The man who works for others without any selfish motive really does good to himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is gold buried in your heart, but you are not yet aware of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is covered with a thin layer of clay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you are aware of it, all these activities of yours will listen.
[SPEAKER_01]: After the birth of a child, the daughter-in-law and the family, busyzers herself with it alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything she does is only for the child.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her mother-in-law does not let her do any household duties.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go forward, a wood cutter once entered a forest to gather wood, a Bramachari said to him, go forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: He obeyed the injunction and discovered some sandal wood trees.
[SPEAKER_01]: After a few days he reflected, the holy man asked me to go forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't tell me to stop here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he went forward and found a silver mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: After a few days, he went still further and discovered a gold mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And next, mines of diamonds and precious stones.
[SPEAKER_01]: With these, he became immensely rich.
[SPEAKER_01]: Through selfless work, love of God grows in the heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then through his grace, one realizes him in course of time, God can be seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: One can talk to him as I'm talking to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: In silent wonder, they all sat listening to the master's words.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed to him, it seemed to them that the goddess of wisdom herself seated on Sri Ramakrishna's tongue, was addressing these words, not merely to Vidya Sagar,
[SPEAKER_01]: but to all humanity for its good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nearly nine o'clock in the evening, a master was about to leave, master to Vidya Sagar with a smile.
[SPEAKER_01]: The words I have spoken are really superfluous.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know all this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You simply aren't conscious of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are countless gems in the coffers of Barona, but he himself isn't aware of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar with a smile.
[SPEAKER_01]: You may say as you like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Master smiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, there are many wealthy people who don't know the names of all their servants and are even unaware of many of the precious things in their house and the houses all laugh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody was delighted with the Master's conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, addressing Vidya Sagar, he said with a smile, please visit the temple garden sometime.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the garden of Rashmani, it's a charming place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, of course, I shall go.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have so kindly come here to see me and shall I not return your visit?
[SPEAKER_01]: Master, visit me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, never think of such a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why, sir?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: May I ask you to explain?
[SPEAKER_01]: Master smiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see, we are like small fishing boats all smile.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can climb small canons and shallow waters and also in big rivers.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you are a ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: You may run a ground on the way all laugh.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's an intuition here that he knows, with this algorithm will never come.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Vidya Sagar remains silent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna said with a laugh, but even a ship can go there at this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar smiling, yes, this is the monsoon season, all laugh.
[SPEAKER_01]: And said to himself, this is indeed the monsoon season of newly awakened love at such times, one does not care for prestige or formalities.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Ramakrishna hinted to him that you should go and visit the Kali Temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Vidya Sagar going to visit the Kali Temple that's understandable.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, I'll go and visit you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, new that it probably won't happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: After the video cycle starts thinking about maybe his prestige and after all, who is Ram Krishna?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just the priest of a temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: So should I go and meet him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when the video cycle said, I'll surely come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram Krishna seems to have some doubts that he's going to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this conversation?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna then took leave of Vidya Sagar, who with his friends, escorted the master to the main gate, leading the way with a lighted candle in his hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before leaving the room, the master prayed for the family's welfare, going into an ecstatic mode as he did so.
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as the master and the devotees reached the gate, they saw an unexpected sight and stood still.
[SPEAKER_01]: In front of them,
[SPEAKER_01]: was a bearded gentleman of fair complexion, aged about thirty-six.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wore his clothes like a Bengali, but on his head was a white turban tied after the fashion of the Sikhs.
[SPEAKER_01]: No sooner did he see the master than he fell, fell, prostrate before him, turban and all.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he stood up, the master said, who is this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ballaram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why so late in the evening?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ballaram.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been waiting here a long time, sir.
[SPEAKER_01]: Master, why didn't you come in?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm always listening to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like to disturb you.
[SPEAKER_01]: The master got into the carriage with his companions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar to him, softly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shall I pay the higher?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't bother, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has been taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vidya Sagar and his friends bowed to Sri Ramakrishna and the carriage started production issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the little group
[SPEAKER_01]: With the venerable video saga at their head holding the light at candle stood at the gate and gazed after the master until he was out of sight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful chapter really.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even just as history, this is the sort of the formation of modern India, Sri Ramakrishna, I'm from through him Vivekananda and all that we see in Hinduism and Vedanta all over the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vindyasagar and all the reforms in education, what his fights for women's rights, all of that, you know, the culmination of the Bengal Renaissance, the effects were felt throughout India and what we see modern India is sort of culmination of all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a beautiful chapter, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is Sri Ram Krishna, told a similar story of the milk woman and her guru.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the little, the milk woman, yes, about crossing the river.
[SPEAKER_01]: A guru didn't believe that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Raphael says, God can be seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: One can talk with him as I'm talking to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to God with form and without form, I can understand if I understand this correctly, it's not that God with form is untrue, but not the ultimate truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's shipping a God with form isn't incorrect.
[SPEAKER_01]: Would it be like saying just because we know a movie isn't true, doesn't, doesn't mean we cannot enjoy watching it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or am I off somewhere?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now God with form and without form,
[SPEAKER_01]: is still the God of religion.
[SPEAKER_01]: In Vedantic terms, Saganabhramman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Saganabhramman is the same ultimate reality, Sajjidana, and the plus Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Saganabhramman plus Maya, it can be with form or without form.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Saganabhramman can be Sarkar and Nirakaar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember at that time, the whole debate was between the Hindu reformers, the orthodox Hindus, and the Christian missionaries, the Muslims, the Sikhs, but also there, the question is does God have form or not or not?
[SPEAKER_01]: From an Advaitic perspective, all of them are discussing subudabramma.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will repeat that again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it is Yashnavas or the Sharkkas or the Christians or the Islam, Muslims or the Brahms or the Sikhs, they are all discussing subunabram and God, GOD, Capital G, Creator, Preservant, Destroyer of the Universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they are discussing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That God has far more without far because
[SPEAKER_01]: We absolute, we need good abrahman, satjidana in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not even a concept which a theistic religions basically understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not central to the idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: So from the perspective of need good abrahman, from the perspective of the adwaitiq absolute, which you are actually, you are that reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: From that perspective, all this is a lower truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: When you set a way to Vedanta side and just look at these three secret religions, there the claim is that if you worship God with farm, it is false or it is lower, it is God is actually without farm, that idea is the Ramakrishna contradicts.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says that and also Hinduism in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are worshiping God, the same God can be with farm and without farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you say it is without farm, then it can assume multiple farms.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had this argument with a monk of the iscon, you know, they always insist to God with form.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am the absolutely no question of, I am Brahman, that is a psychologist, will be horrified and close the ears if you say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, see, water, whatever farm you put, you put water in a bowl, it looks like a bowl, you put water in a glass, it looks like a glass and whatever farm you put, you continue to water put, you put it in the water takes that farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he said, aha, yes, but it always has a farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It always has a farm, depending on whatever container you put, it has a farm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, whenever you experience water, it has a form.
[SPEAKER_01]: What will be the Advaiti cancer to this?
[SPEAKER_01]: The Advaiti cancer to this is whatever you experience that must have a form, otherwise it cannot be an object of experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in itself, from its own perspective, water has none of those forms or water's forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because water in itself is formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, Satjidana in itself is without attributes, including without forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: only because what it is without forms, from its own perspective, from itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is why it can assume the form of any, any containers.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it had a form of its own, then it would contradict all other forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if God is only Krishna, Krishna and only Krishna,
[SPEAKER_01]: Then God cannot be in the form of Kali or Shiva or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But nobody says that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Neither the Vaishnavas, nor the Shaktas, nor the Shivas.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all say, even Kali has multiple forms and Kali is also formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Krishna has multiple forms and Krishna is also formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that idea was very clear in all the theistic schools of Hinduism, all the dualistic schools, all the devotional schools.
[SPEAKER_01]: that whatever we are worshipping as God, as a form perfectly acceptable, and you can worship in that particular form.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also know, it's the same form is also formless.
[SPEAKER_01]: From an other perspective, all of this is Saguna Brahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: God, that is God.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go back to Bilantas, all of those we have attended Bilantas, there are classes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Precise definition is there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somershty Aghana Upahitachaitanya.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means consciousness associated with Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is consciousness in itself?
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no question of any form at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it is beyond form, but not only beyond form, beyond attributes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, isn't that what they were talking about in their talking about God without form?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the Brahms, when the Christians, when the Muslims and Sikhs, they talk about God without form, they talk about God, without form, but with qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: God without form, but with qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: God without form with qualities, who is the creator, desirable, and destroyer of the universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the very definition of Saguna Brahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have got three levels here.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is with form, which form many many forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: How is that possible?
[SPEAKER_01]: How can the same God have many many forms?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because in itself, God is without form.
[SPEAKER_01]: So both are the same truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Higher than both of that is the Brahman of Advaita Vedanta.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Rafael's question is, from an Advaitic perspective, yes, with form, without form, the God, world, and individual are all deva, harika, transactional, ultimate reality on the Brahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's distinction between higher truth and lower truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: ultimate reality and relative reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Paramahad Thika and Bhagahariika.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an Advaiting we have looking at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: None of the dualistic schools ever do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't talk about two levels of truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only one truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alpana says, if an image of God comes suddenly when one is not thinking about that God or anything related, is it by God's will?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can say that or it's often our own conditioning also, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Many thoughts pop up in our mind when you're not thinking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: We think we are not consciously thinking, but a lot of processing is going on at our subconscious level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, if you are devoted and you have spent time thinking about God, meditating on God, it may come.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can call it God's will also.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's like a blessing from God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shree says, it's talk who revealing himself to be just like when he says, one can talk with him as I'm talking to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, beautifully done.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very interesting point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's apparently Saddam Krishna seems to be saying about his own spiritual experiences.
[SPEAKER_01]: So God can actually be seen, and you can actually, it's living presence, you can talk to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: So mystics in different religions, in different traditions, they all say the same thing, that you can feel the living presence of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can even communicate with God.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's Ram Krishna saying this, or as she has pointed out, if you look a little deeper, what's going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: You are talking to Sri Ram Krishna.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram Krishna says, you can talk to God, just as we are talking to, I'm talking to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look in that level, we owe with the Asagrad.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one you are talking to is none other than an avatar.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's none other than account.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that sense, good interpretation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vindra says in one of your lectures, you said that Sri Ram Krishna told his disciple that mantra and is to the avatar, nothing but self.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you please explain on these British in mind, correct?
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ram Krishna told Gangal, that is Swami Akhandananda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jayja, Rathma, Jayja, Ristosh, Rathma.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoever is your ishtadevata or whoever ishtadevata is the very self of that person.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: This whole theistic devotional, mystic approach.
[SPEAKER_01]: God exists.
[SPEAKER_01]: God can be loved, meditated upon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can experience God feel the presence of God and the goal of life is to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the Guru initiates you.
[SPEAKER_01]: God can have many forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is the particular form you shall focus on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You shall hold on to this particular form.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here is the mantra which the Guru initiates you with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you repeat the mantra and meditate on each and every time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the approach.
[SPEAKER_01]: And many of us we have been initiated in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those who are gathered here.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the other hand, the whole Vedantic tradition, Upanishads and Shankara's commentary, and Gita, and the commentary of Shankara and Brahma Sutras, and all the, you know, Drick Dhrisha Vivek, a production of Buddhism.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that, it seems to be an inquiry into who am I.
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, discovering myself as unlimited existence consciousness, bliss, and that is freedom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where is all this Ishta Devata, Mantra, God, all of that in this, at the most one, may say, it is a helpful practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: The moment you say it's helpful practice, you are demoting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and seeing that it is at a lower level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Karma Yoga purifies the mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Upasana, this is what ship it focuses the mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: By Karma Yoga purification of mind, by Upasana, concentration of mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: So is that it Guru has given you mantra and is to devote it just for focus of mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: So next thing is to go to the Vedanta class.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Guru didn't tell me that, this is enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: The mantra is enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is to devote his enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna says,
[SPEAKER_01]: The two are the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently they may seem to be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: One may seem to be a devotional practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other one may seem to be a gana knowledge.
[SPEAKER_01]: One may seem to be about God.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one may seem to be about the self.
[SPEAKER_01]: One may seem to be about ultimately getting the vision of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one may seem to be a realizing I am Brahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: They seem to be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he says, that which you worship as Krishna, Shiva, you Guru has given you, suppose, Ishtal Devata is Shiva.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your mantra is Om Namashiva, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is your Ishtal Devata and Ishtal Mantra.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is none other than yourself, that Chidana and the Rupa, Shiva have the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you ask for it, like Brenda is asking.
[SPEAKER_01]: How, how are they the same thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you visualize the form of God, it's a vithy in the mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: The moment you stop visualizing it's gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: But consciousness is not gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Consciousness is always there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you visualize not visualize, you cannot visualize it anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: And whether you study Vedanta, you don't know the first thing about Vedanta, you are that awareness, any reincarnationally, choicelessly, always there.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are they the same thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: How is Easter they were and consciousness the same thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, this is a very deep subject.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me just give you the hint here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing in this universe is different from that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you keep the consciousness apart from the universe, you have got dualism, sanghya, Purushan, Drakriti, that's separate.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in a Dwaita Vedanta, everything that is Prakriti, all the physical universe, the subtle universe, all of that, Tula Shukshma, the causal universe, Karana, Tula Shukshma, Karana, all of that is nothing other than consciousness, which you are, or nothing other than existence, which you are, that Brahman, that Atman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if one may say that, oh, in that way, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas, your ishtra devathas,
[SPEAKER_01]: Vivekananda made fun of it, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pots are drummen, pans are drummen, why are there issues made?
[SPEAKER_01]: Pots and pans are drummen.
[SPEAKER_01]: What nonsense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the problem is this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is true that anything that you see as an object is actually not an object.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is none other than your real self.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned it in the last talk I gave on Purnam.
[SPEAKER_01]: The object appears to you, the consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: including your Easter David visualization, it appears to you the consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Second step, it appears in you the consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Third step, it is nothing other than you the consciousness, not directly said it's not said it is the consciousness, no it cannot be, but it is nothing other than consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Still, the question remains that is what I had told true for everything, why only Easter David?
[SPEAKER_01]: chair and table rocks and trees and leaves and all of that sky and earth.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those are also appearances in consciousness and nothing but consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, why are you saying, wherever is your ishtadevata that itself is your Athva.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because here is the whole technology of Mantrashastra and this Upasana.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these names and forms, which appear to consciousness in consciousness and are nothing but consciousness, is products of Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: They entangle you in Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: You will be entangled in the name and form an activity and take that to be real and that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing more, and you're caught in some sort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only a few very select special names and forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are names and forms, but they will free you from Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all the category of names and forms, which in time, name form an activity, name a group of wa wa hara, which entangle us in Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is called avidya Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: That power of Maya, which is ignorance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ignorance means it traps us in some sorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that power?
[SPEAKER_01]: All this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I and mine, you know, my families, they are all different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Others are different from the my property, my name and my sorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want these things in life, only then I will be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Never work, but these are things we think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Such is my plan and project for life, waste of time actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, in the only in the sense, it will not give you the fulfillment you are asking from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it will all trap us in some sort, but there are names and forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: like Sri Ram Krishna says, all these activities that you are doing, helping others, sympathy for others, unselfishness, simple life, honesty, these are the qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, there are also name form and activity, all part of Maya, but they help you out of Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are Vindiya Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Among these, the highest, most powerful, are two.
[SPEAKER_01]: The form of God and even more powerful, the name of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a whole science called Mantra Shastras.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Advaita Vedanta sort of skips the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes one thing, the most powerful one, all Mandukya Upanishad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But other than that, there is a whole intricate Mantra Shastra, which is part of the Tantras, in Kashmirishivism also.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's part of what is called Shakhtopaya, the method of the spiritual practice based on the power of the Divine Mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let is expressed in the mantras.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, you know, what is the basic principle of mantras astra?
[SPEAKER_01]: The same language, the same letters and language, which form the trap of Maya, which forms the network of Maya in which we attract when we use language in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just entangled us in Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the same language, if properly used, there are words of power, mystical words, which you properly used, they can free you from this very net.
[SPEAKER_01]: That freeing power is also the power of Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: that entangling power is the power of Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: The freeing power is also the power of Maya, the power of Divine Mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is how this name and form.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is nothing other than you, the consciousness, but it has a special property that it will not trap you in Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will take you to your real nature, which is pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the long way of answering what you asked.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Ram Krishna just puts it simply.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, everything is appearing in consciousness, not different from consciousness, but these appearances, name of God, form of God are special.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are directly your consciousness, because though everything else is consciousness, everywhere the doors are closed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here the door is open.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vindyamaya, Vindyamaya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very ancient idea, it is there in Sanghya also.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sankha makes a clear destiny.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't even talk about God.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes a clear distinction between pollution and property.
[SPEAKER_01]: Purusha is entangled in property.
[SPEAKER_01]: And property does two things for pollution, property means nature, pollution means consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So each of us, purusha does not mean man, not women.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of us, all sentient beings here, all living beings here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are all purusha, pollution in the sense of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we are also property.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our bodies are property, our minds are property.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our individual existence is property and everything that surrounds us is property.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Prakriti does two things for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is, Prakriti gives you Bhoga.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second one, Prakriti gives you Upavarga.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are very ancient words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Older than Moksha.
[SPEAKER_01]: Older than Nirvana.
[SPEAKER_01]: Upavarga.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bhoga and Upavarga.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bhoga means experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be of two types.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sukhadukha.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pleasure pain mixed.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is Bhoga.
[SPEAKER_01]: You experience universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is called Bhoga.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not okay, it might take thousands of life times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Logitech thousands of life times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one point, you, the Purusha, you will feel I want this enough of repeating the same cycle of, you know, birth and suffering and death and again and again and again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want limitlessness.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want freedom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want infinity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same property, who has been doing this so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: She now gives you up a burger.
[SPEAKER_01]: will introduce you to Sankha and Yog and Belanta and all that and then you begin to realize your true nature and your freedom.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was all done by Prakriti.
[SPEAKER_01]: Later on in the Tantrik paradigm, it is the Divine Mother Maha Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: who gives you some sara and freedom from some sara.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you see the same ideals, and can idea, mentioned, and can I just say, you see what was correctly earlier is now said to be the power of the function of Maya or Mahamaya.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little distinction between Maya and Mahamaya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maya is power.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can be used in sense of also in a negative sense that you trapped in Maya, Maya is creating all this problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Mahamaaya is God, none other than God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mahamaaya means consciousness plus Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Sri Ram Krishna would again and again say, what you call Brahman, I call Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Kali is not just power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kali is God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Consciousness plus Maya.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is Mahamaaya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vishwanathan says Bhagwan Ramana Bhashypta, Runa Chala, Hillis's Guru, Mother and Father, despite teaching people to find their own self.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the same thing, the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: After realizing Brahman, the enlightened ones, they display extraordinary bhakti, because Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita,
[SPEAKER_01]: There are people who worship me, you know, four fold devotees are there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some worship me because they are in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some worship me because they need something in this world.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have desire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some worship me because they want to realize God and they come to Vedanta class and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a fourth category.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Enlightened One, Ghanic
[SPEAKER_01]: So the enlightened one worships me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The next verse Krishna says, it is the enlightened one who truly worships me, truly loves me and I truly love him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am never lost to the enlightened one and he's never lost to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: What a beautiful way of praising it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means the enlightened one effortlessly sees God everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the enlightened one is ever one with God in that sense he's saying he's never lost to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Others are making an effort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some believe, some don't believe, some have advanced a lot through spiritual practices.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for the enlightened one, I am real.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the bhakti of the enlightened one is the real bhakti.
[SPEAKER_01]: The universe, as you say, is God, the second abramman, appears to us, ignorant, gee, was with form and attributes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows himself as nidhgun abramman, the self and does not identify himself with form, attribute being, my adhisha, hence he's not different from our self.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, perfecting true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, God is not an other.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: In dualistic religions, we think that I am separate God is separate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we worship.
[SPEAKER_01]: No harm there, but still God remains a separate thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then many problems come that God becomes an object of belief, of faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, you never doubt your own existence, but something else you always doubt.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's there or not, especially something like God, which some people say God exists, some people say God doesn't exist and it has to be a matter of faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that God, which is our own self, which is in Adwaita Vedanta.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, that God alone is the second abrahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so abrahman is always enlightened.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is in the sense that, no, I, my real nature is not an abrahman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are all one with me, all beings are one with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: front of says is mantra shastra teaching the idea of Shakti Brahman or Mahar Shibra Bhattri Hari.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be big, big question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will drop it now because Bhattri Hari is
[SPEAKER_01]: whole philosophy, sort of other, something that was refuted by Shankaracharya, Rishabhtha Pramman, he says, the ultimate, he says, language itself is the ultimate reality, not the language we know, language has four levels, the Waikhari, the Dhamdhama, and the, what is the higher than that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Parah, Ashanti, and Dhamma, Waikhari.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Parapashyanthima Dhamavaykar, so what we are talking about, what you are hearing now is called a Waikari speech, but we are hearing about this ancient philosophy of language in India.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he wrote to this book, he wrote this book called Wakya Padheya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, even now people are writing play of PhDs on it, on that Wakya Padheya, and much before Shankaracharya.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shankaracharya does not accept this philosophy, so it sort of disappeared and became, it was marginalized, but it's a wonderful, very powerful philosophy.
[SPEAKER_01]: His philosophy is, the language which we're using now is, is, by curry.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's physically expressed through sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we speak, what is there in our minds?
[SPEAKER_01]: That is called, the Madhjama.
[SPEAKER_01]: before we have already articulated, before we spoken, it remains a thought in the mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before it becomes a thought, it remains as a potential called patientity, like a seed about to burst forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: A seed remains a seed from, you can't see the leaves, branches, roots, fruits, and leaves, nothing you can see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only when it sprouts, you begin to see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the sprouting is called the mandama.
[SPEAKER_01]: But before it sprouts, it's called patientity, it's a seed form.
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever you're going to speak, that's already there, all the ideas are already there in the seed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like a mango tree seed is different from an apple tree seed and because the genetic material, the information contained is different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though the seeds may look alike, mango seed looks very different.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the seeds are, you don't see any distinction of leaves, fruits, fruits, flowers there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's all that packed in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So seed form of any thought, any idea is the passion thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Beyond that is para-a-walk, the supreme speech.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the supreme speech?
[SPEAKER_01]: Consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you come to what Advaita Vedanta says.
[SPEAKER_01]: That consciousness alone, which appears as the seed, which is passionty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Advaita Vedanta, that is my actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is expressed as thoughts, mandhama.
[SPEAKER_01]: That becomes in Advaita Vedanta.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sukhwar propanja.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that is expressed as speech, physical speech, talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: In Advaita Vedanta, that becomes the sthula propanja, physical universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see, we are going to Brahman Satya Dhananda here, Bhattriya Rises, Paravak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, we are going to Brahman, but now we are going to Brahman with Maya, Bhattriya Rises, the Pashjanti.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the Seguna Brahman expresses as the Heranya Garva, a cosmic mind with entire subtle bodies and everything, the subtle universe, Sukshpap Tanmatra.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here it becomes the Madhdhama, the thoughts in the mind, the thoughts are distinct from each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then finally,
[SPEAKER_01]: physical universe appears stars and planets matter energy and a here in this case what happens physical speech is spoken sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll end with a nice story and before yes I'll look at the comments but I'll end with a story also the story is so this was one of the great debates
[SPEAKER_01]: between the Buddhists and Hindu philosophers.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they had nearly a thousand-year rivalry.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Hindus wanted to establish, there is Atman, the Self, and there is God Paramatma.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Buddhists challenged both.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no eternal reality called Atman.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no Creator God of the Universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a thousand-year debate.
[SPEAKER_01]: more than that actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So towards the end of that, came just before Shankaracharya, came Kumarila Bhattar.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Kumarila Bhattar, who was a great poor woman, a great, great scholar, and Shankaracharya to refute his theories to establish the open issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Kumarila Bhattar did a lot of the hard work of refuting the Buddhists.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here is the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is just a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting in the context of what we just discussed the four levels of speech.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the story is, there's going to be a great debate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And after the debate, we could not decide who won the debate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kumerala Bhattar, the Buddhist master, Buddhist monk.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the king who is little partial to the Buddhist, he said, I will put a challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone you can solve the puzzle, that person has won.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is the puzzle?
[SPEAKER_01]: A basket was bought.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that basket, what is there with your meditation, your power of meditation?
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to tell me what is there in the basket.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the king had put a snake, poisonous snake in the basket.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Buddhist monk meditated, and he said, there's a poisonous snake in the basket.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Kumarila Bhattra thought, if I also say there's a poisonous snake in the basket, he could also see that there's a poisonous snake in the basket.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the king will think I'm just copying the Buddhist monk, and he's partial to the Buddhist, so he will say the Buddhist has won the debate or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just copying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said, there's a flower garland in the basket.
[SPEAKER_01]: the king, green, then he said, all right, we will decorate your neck with that flower garland.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he wanted to put that venomous snake on the deck of Kumarila Bhattar.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they lifted the basket, opened it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This saw there was a beautiful flower garland.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody was stunned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the king was stunned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the Buddhist monk thought, I bet I saw it with my mystical power.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw that it was a snake.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did this happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Then Kumarila Bhattar is explained.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said that, this is a very beautiful, you know, a theory of language and reality, the physical reality and language.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says at our level, words and objects are different.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I say garland, it's a word, Sanskrit word, Pushpa Malah, and the object garland is different.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are two different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: snake, surpa, and the object sparseness snake.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's two different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why it's possible to have different words for the same object.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can have, you know, the same thing you can call it a post-taka book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And English you can call book in Bengali you can say boy in Hindi you can say Kitab and so on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're using different words because that's possible because multiple words can express the same object because the object and word are different.
[SPEAKER_01]: One refers to the other, but they are not the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one is sound produced in a language.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one is a physical entity.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, there is a deeper level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we speak in our own minds, when I say the word flower garland and a think of a flower garland, the object in the name, both are thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see, if I say,
[SPEAKER_01]: glasses, glasses is a word and here is an object, a different glasses object.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I think of the glasses and I tell the word in my mind glasses, without speaking, both become thoughts and both are in the same place, mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, if you go further, the idea glass, the idea of flower garland and the word flower garland, they come from the same seed in the same place.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is called the patient level.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, why curry level?
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking, flower garland and in the magnema level, thought of a garland and thought of the word garland, both are thoughts in the mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are not different from each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we go further, there was the same thing before it becomes expressed as two different thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, at that point,
[SPEAKER_01]: a yogi can replace one seed with another seed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I replaced that idea in the cosmic mind of that this is the flower garland and this is a snake and expressed by the words snake.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just had to use the word flower garland in the cosmic mind and it changed from snake to flower garland.
[SPEAKER_01]: The word was put in there manifested in the cosmic mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole universe is a manifestation of whatever is there in here in the garland was mine and you opened a basket you will see it is a flower garland.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see, that's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we should, we need the password to get network.
[SPEAKER_01]: He ran a garbage net first.
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever the story is, it expresses a very deep philosophy of mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just a simple idea that object and name, we think that so different language and object and different.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the very idea that at the level of thought, they are not different.
[SPEAKER_01]: both become thoughts, only in the physical world, they become further apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go back beyond the thoughts, at the some scholar level, they become one actually fused.
[SPEAKER_01]: And beyond that, the whole thing is revealed by consciousness and given existence by consciousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but three hurry.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in between, there's one more idea, which he gave, called Sartra, which I'm not going into.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then Shashank says, Sudam Krishna gave the example of the attitude of monkey and cat.
[SPEAKER_01]: form or monkey holds on to the mother and can fall, but the cat is completely dependent on the mother, not stick.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did he mean by the cat example?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so dependence on God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember the kitten, which is taken by the mother cat, so Ram Krishna also tells in the example, the kitten is happy where the mother leaves it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes on a soft bed, sometimes in the oven, you know, the ashes, the ashes are warm to keep the kitten warm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes in the bushes or in the heap of rubbish or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes further, if the kitten is unhappy with where the mother has left it, the kitten can, kitten says, mu mu.
[SPEAKER_01]: It complains with the milling sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can't do anything itself because it depends entirely on the mother's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mother will, if the mother feels to put the kitten elsewhere, when she will come and pick up the kitten carefully, when the scruff of the neck and put it elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the kitten depends on the monkey will scamper around and the monkey has the danger of falling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw this myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: many years ago, about sixteen years ago in the mountains above Biavati.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there was a place at I said I will go and meditate and they told me to go into hills and then Swami is in the ashram said, watch out for bears, they scared me nicely.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I went up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there is a particular like a
[SPEAKER_01]: in the middle of that is a particular clearing where monks go to meditate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a cage and you go and sit inside the cage and you lock the toes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the wildlife is outside and the human beings are in the cage for a change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you go there, you'll realize why it's important to lock the door because otherwise you'll have no peace of mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is coming and opening the door when you're inside?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I lock the door and sat down.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's amazing to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a bunch of monkeys with little monkeys and all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they all ran across the clearing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a clearing and then climbed up a tree and they were being chased by a wolf or a wolf like a mountain dog or a wolf something huge dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: It came running after them and the monkeys were teasing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because the wolf was snarling and below the tree, I think one of the baby monkeys got scared.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it left its hold on the mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it tumbled down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in front of me I saw the wolf tear it apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you see that will not happen if say to the kitten because the mother is holding on to the kitten.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm holding on to God, it's my choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I hold on to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't hold on to God.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the wolves of suffering are always there pain and suffering.
[SPEAKER_01]: There.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's a gruesome story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a mental attitude or something deeper?
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned that even faith in the mind, even faith is in the mind and therefore can come and go and requires effort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If God is separate from Him, His God is another to this problem comes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Faith in the mind can come and go increase and decrease.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you consistently surrender to God, you accept and you're allowed to complain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're allowed to say new, new, to the mother that if you don't like your situation, you can tell your mother, why not?
[SPEAKER_01]: Jyoti says, when we have to have faith in God, then where do we put faith?
[SPEAKER_01]: In God, in whichever form, in whichever tradition, whatever you think of as God, in Krishna, in Kali, in Shiva, in Durga, in Jesus, in Ram, or Ramakrishna, in whichever form you feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shanti shanti, hariyom tatsat shri Ramakrishna Rupanabastu.