Moderation vs Censorship & Helping Brands Safely Navigate Social Media w/ Matthew McGrory

 If someone was to ask me why did Elon buy Twitter, one of the reasons I think is because
 he's got this kind of idea he's head of turning X into this kind of massive platform like they
 have in China with Weibo where it's got a payment platform, it's got advertising in it,
 it's got the products in it, it's blinked into Alibaba, all these different things all in one place.
 Yeah, that's the futuristic vision of social media.
 This is right about now with Ryan Allford, a Radcast Network production.
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 Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to right about now. We're always talking about what's now and you
 know it's right, baby. You know it's right because we're talking about it. Hey, at least we think
 it is in our own heads to your minds. I'm excited. You know, we get to talk one of my favorite topics,
 social media. And you know, being a marketing guy, if you're not into social media, then you're
 probably not really into marketing because it is the way to market these days. But there's a lot
 to talk about what it is, what it isn't, about what flows through social media. So no better
 person to come on than the CEO of Arwen.ai. He is Matthew McCrory. What's up, Matthew?
 Hey, nice to be on the show. Thanks for having me.
 Yeah, man. I was excited to have you guys reached out and we had scheduled a couple of little
 blips here and there. But I was pumped, you know, the news has been in your space, which I know,
 I know marketing well enough with PR. Hey, that's free, free rising to the top. You want it to be
 top of mind, right? Yeah, absolutely. There's been lots of news in the social media space.
 We were kind of the first inception of Arwen was as a moderation tool. So there's been lots to
 talk about moderation, free speech, censorship, both in the US since you had your great election in
 November. And in your vice president was over in Germany last week talking about free speech,
 telling the leaders of Europe what they should be doing. So it's a very topical discussion point
 in the minute. Yeah, I'm going to ask you, Matthew, I'm, since you brought that up, I'm just curious,
 you know, and this is less your opinion, but you can certainly share it more. What is the sentiment
 overseas? I know you're just south of London. What is the sentiment overseas of what
 has both transpired with the election and, you know, the vice president was there?
 Like, is there a general sentiment or is it just like us? It's like 50, 50.
 I think generally is probably more 60, 40 left leaning, I would have said, is the sentiment.
 And I think that's partly driven by, you know, one of Trump's targets is kind of the media and
 the kind of traditional mass media and that they tend to take traditional approaches. And if you
 look at employees in that space, they tend to be slightly left leaning in their opinion.
 So yeah, I would say we're definitely leaning left. We've got a Labour government in here,
 which was probably elected more about the ineptitude of the right leaning government that preceded
 it rather than Labour's good points. But a lot of Germany is seeing kind of rise of right leaning
 parties are getting votes, very much on the topical points of immigration. Yeah, economy still comes
 out first. Everyone's a job. First of foremost, they want to make money. They want a good platform
 for that. That's the same, I think, in the US and all across Europe. But yeah, immigration, massive
 topic here, with it's just kind of the levels we've had over the last 15 years across Europe have
 meant that it's caused problems. And I think you've had your share of those in the US. And that's
 created some of the divide that I think politicians, instead of closing their eyes or putting the
 blindfold on and running around and pretending it's not there, they people need to start addressing
 it, unfortunately. Yeah. That's unavoidable at some point. I mean, I always tell people like
 caution a little bit. We're a country of immigrants. But we're at a scale now where you do have
 to have laws in place and measures. It's been a little bit of the Wild Wild West, for sure,
 in that regard. But I do want to get down right down the pike here, I think, with our audience,
 we got that treadmill crowd out. I hope whoever's, if you're listening, wherever whenever you are,
 I hope you get that heart level up, you know, if we got to be about 85 right now, okay,
 then we're only going to take you to 115 because we're going to, you know, talk about moderation.
 And look, one of my favorite quotes, Matthew, is everything in moderation, especially moderation.
 Yeah. Well, I'm there's, and there's a well-known blog in the Trust of Safety sector called
 everything in moderation, which talks about everything in the space. And I think, for me,
 this is about like brand safety. We typically are clients of brands. We like formula ones are client
 ATP tennis or a client. And this is about individual choices of individuals to protect themselves
 in cases where they have to kind of be subjected to things that probably most of us wouldn't
 really like. I think the tipping point here is where people are removing content completely
 off social media channels. You know, the way Elon Musk has set up X means that if you want to
 say your opinion, that's fine. And if I choose not to listen to your opinion, I can shut you up.
 You can carry on saying what you want to say. I just decided that I don't want to listen to it
 anymore. And I don't want my followers to listen to it. So very often where it becomes a bit of a
 sensitive point is we, we, we, we have elite sports clients. And then as individuals,
 they have tens of millions of followers that they would say, my hard work has brought me these
 followers. So if I don't want my followers to hear what person, this person over here is going
 to say, I'm, I don't want them on my channel. Whereas, yeah, I think what where Elon's going is,
 Elon's saying, but that person still should be allowed to shout out whatever they want to say
 on their channel. And I think this is where the kind of the Facebook, the meta you turn that
 happened just after the election when Zuckerberg kind of realized that to get into good books,
 they were going to have to make some policy changes. There's been some interesting stuff released
 about what the Biden administration was asking meta to do during the pandemic, which again, I haven't
 seen, I've just seen kind of rumor and speculation. I haven't seen kind of cold hard facts yet.
 But if that was the case, then yeah, I just that that shouldn't be a place where we're going,
 yeah, things should be allowed to disseminate. We draw a line on what we call illegal stuff,
 which is kind of below the line, which is child sexual sexual exploitation, where we're, people are
 doing like death threats, things like that, things that are at the extreme end of the toxicity scale.
 And then we draw the line at the what we call the lawful but awful. So lawful but awful should be
 absolutely fine. That stuff is allowed. But it should be up to individuals in the community,
 whether they want to listen to it. The analogy I generally use on demos with clients is Patrick's
 ways in roadhouse. So he's the bounce he's brought in by the owner of the bar to clean it up,
 because people are smashing the bar up. And the owner wants a nice hospital place. He doesn't
 want the band to get smashed with beer bottles every night. And we're very much trying to create a
 world like that that is based on choice. There are bars that still exist like that. And that's fine.
 You can go in and you can throw beer bottles and the bars protected with a cage. And there are other
 bars that are they're suitable for your family and you come in and you have a nice polite
 conversation and we welcome everyone. And it's kind of free choice. And I live near the home of
 the British Army. So around me there are loads of bars that are like what we would call swatty
 bars, whether the army, army folk will go. And you can go down there on a Friday night and
 they'll be a bit fruity and they'll get a bit exciting. Or you can go the other way and you
 go to your bar where you have your Sunday race. Now digital channels are exactly the same. It's
 like you want to create spaces for your audiences where they want to come and have meaningful
 conversations. And that's what we're really trying to do. And we're really policing that for
 the brands themselves. We don't do that for the social media organizations. And so I do want to add
 one point, you know, you mentioned the Biden administration and not, you know, you're overseas.
 It's not your job to know the everything. But I am going to quote exactly what they did
 because Zuckerberg said it in front of Congress under testimony that he was pressured to censor
 and they did censor COVID information on Facebook, which is bullshit. And exactly what happened.
 And Zuckerberg's both, you know, had a coming to Jesus, so to speak, for his own platforms.
 And also, you know, gotten a little bit of hoots for behind them because the guys like doing
 UFC now. I don't know if it's all related. You know, some people would call that toxic masculinity.
 I would just call it seeing the world as it should be, which is you can do it. Look,
 one percent agree. No hate, threats of violence. No, but that bullshit needs to be taken out.
 And so I think we can all align on that stuff. But political-based, you know, pressuring on these
 platforms that's been taking place in the US. And Zuckerberg's just the only one that got up there
 and admitted it has been happening. And that's the stuff that just drives. And I think part of the
 reason Trump got elected, you know, people like or to love him, hate him. It's just that there's
 just not room for that kind of political, like not only censorship, but freaking, you know, they want
 to call everything disinformation, misinformation. You know, truth is in the eye of the beholder.
 Yeah, it's a very convenient catch all disinformation, misinformation. We've been very careful
 to try and avoid it. We do get rid of a lot of spam, but that's typically around the subject of
 it might be financial scamming those types of things or come to my dating site. It's the stuff
 that like if you're trying to read an article, you really don't want that in the way. It's
 poor form for content. I think we can I'll do that. Yeah, yeah. I think I think there's another
 hundred miles of this road to travel, if I'm honest. And yeah, I wouldn't say I admire is probably
 too strong a word, but I would certainly respect Zuckerberg for doing what he did. And
 almost you turning it and actually shedding, you know, some light on the topic that is of
 that is normally the best tonic for these things, shed some light on the truth. I think you're
 going to find that Europe were not particularly well behaved during the pandemic. And I think
 you're going to find that European governments are going to be held to account over the next
 five to ten years as we go through all our kind of our own little post mortems of how people
 behaved during the pandemic. And yeah, I there are a lot of things that shouldn't have happened.
 And there are a lot of views that were pushed on us. Propaganda is what it would have been called
 sort of 60, 70 years ago in my own personal opinion. So we as America's go through what's called
 audits with our taxes. We get audited. You know, I think there needs to be an accounting. And look,
 I don't really want to dredge up this shit. I'm kind of I don't have a I'm a guy that doesn't have
 a review mirror. You know, like let's go forward. But I do think we got to make sure we learn from
 the past. So we don't repeat it. The future is the biggest thing that I would take away. And that's
 I will say that's what I love about what you're doing is it seems to be you guys are headed down
 the road of the right moderation with the stuff that we can all universally agree. And it's a brand
 and it's a company that you don't want in your content. And you don't want your customers,
 you know, get subjected to that. That's why I really like what you guys are doing with our work.
 Yeah. And the the the flip side of all this is the good stuff. Right. So yeah, the whole point
 of social media is so that I mean, it's so that we can all have a conversation. But it's monetized
 by the brands who want to have a conversation with their clients with their customers. Right. So
 what we worked out is as well as detecting the bad stuff or we call it your your sort of golden
 tickets in your comment mountain because most brands have got a comment mountain of what people
 are saying to them. And most of them aren't listening to it. They're not listening to their
 customers. They're not listening to buying signals from their clients. And that's where the
 commercial imperative is. That's where you know, I used the example. I saw a name and shame brands
 when I talked to them and say, here are some comments that were on your social media channels
 in the last two weeks and you haven't replied to. And they will be really obvious things like,
 where can I buy this? Can I get this in blue instead of red as it's shown on the Instagram channel?
 So really obvious things that people aren't responding to. So I think we're moving
 into a monetization phase on social media that isn't just as is today, which is just kind of
 billboard advertising, which is kind of where we've been stuck in on this stuff for the last few
 years. I think it's much more interactive. And I think that's if someone was to ask me why did Elon
 buy Twitter? One of the reasons I think is because he's got this kind of idea in his head
 of turning X into this kind of massive platform like they have in China with Weibo and the other
 ones where it's got a payment platform, it's got advertising in it, it's got the products in it,
 it's linked into Alibaba, all these different things all in one place. That's the futuristic
 vision of social media. So which I think is where Elon wants to take it, he's just I think he's
 being held up on the road of that journey at the minute. Yeah, he's like any good entrepreneur,
 distracted sometimes, but it's interesting that you brought up the Weibo thing and it's funny,
 I was walking around the mall on Sunday and I don't go the mall very often here in these states,
 but I was thinking in terms of like social media and when I think of what you're talking about
 with building, it's almost it's like this. There's a there's a place that I'm now seeing more
 clearly than I did. I kind of pan the whole metaverse bullshit like four or five years ago because
 I thought we were ahead of it and it was just so I don't know if you're old that it wasn't like
 real yet. Hey, I'm gonna get into space and I'm yeah, I know that I care what my skin is and
 my shirts are, but it wasn't quite there, but now I can sort of see this inner inner play of
 transactional merchandise. So that you're talking about meets digital meets social like the digital
 mall because when you look around the mall, it's bunch it is like this combination of social
 because people are having conversations are walking around in these courts and things and I almost
 have this vision now that I see what you're saying with like ex becoming that digital place of
 social plus shopping plus interaction, right? I think that's where you're what you're kind of
 painting, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think there's this like meta release, this kind of metaverse
 world and there's kind of this platform concept of everything being in the same place, making it
 really convenient. I don't have to set up an account to check out. I don't have to put my credit
 card details because they're all kind of stored somewhere. So the whole pain of selection and
 transaction and buying, all that pain is very much taken care of and yeah, well, I think we're headed
 for, you know, kind of these platforms getting even stronger than they are because they're gonna
 e-con to the high street, certainly the high street here in the UK is becoming smaller and smaller,
 we've got less retail outlets and certainly more like restaurants. We joke in the UK about the
 proliferation of charity shops, all our kind of market towns are filled with seven or eight charity
 shops where if we went back 10, 15 years, there might be one or two. It's great for the charities,
 they're getting free retail store, but it's I think it's a product of the fact that a lot of
 this stuff is moving online, a lot of the experience of how do I buy things, how do I interact,
 how to ask questions, it's becoming a little bit more real and certainly the AI revolution is
 playing into that because I can experience things with AI that I couldn't do before. I can talk to
 an avatar in a way that I couldn't do before and it will respond in a slightly more human-like way.
 I mean, we're still at base one, but hopefully we're gonna get to base two and base three fairly
 quickly. It would appear. Yeah, that train is moving fast. I mean, you can see it with machine
 learning and everything like it. It's both exciting and scary sometimes. The
 talk with Matthew McCrory, he is the CEO of R1.ai. Matthew, I mean, it's interesting. I'm hearing
 you talk. I'm sort of like looking at the R1 platform and it makes me think of this
 world that we live in where you have all this content being pushed out. Words, pictures,
 type all that. Like you said, you're helping brands engage because finding the nuggets that could
 be transactional opportunities or brand opportunities, which is what I'm hearing. It goes to show that
 there's so much data and so many micro conversations happening on social media that there's power
 in the intelligence that those that can provide when it is rolled up for you and gives you these
 signals. And at its core, I feel like that's what you guys are doing with engaged particularly,
 right? Yeah, that's exactly it. We've got a retail, like a hospitality chain here that owns about
 2,400 bars across the UK. And they want to do things like, can you, we've just launched our new
 menu in one of our brands that might be 200 bars? How did people feel about that? What was the
 sentiment? What was the most talked about thing? Did they like the burgers? Did they like the new
 ribs that we released? Did we change the chips? Did anyone complain about the fries? Sorry,
 they're not chips fries in your world. French fries in America. I'm in America, yeah.
 So that's really where people want, they want that intelligence of what people are saying so they
 can react to it. That could inform product decisions that they're making and help them respond to
 people in a more informed and grown up way. You've also got, we work with some sports teams in
 Formula One and one of the teams came to us and said, well, we want to know what people are saying
 every 15 minutes throughout the race because we want to react to it as the race happens. There's a
 two hour race, you know, in hour three, the story is dead, but we want to react to it, you know,
 30 minutes in, something happens as a pit stop. The lead changes, there's a safety flag, that type of
 stuff. So that's really, people want to, the creators want to react more quickly in a more
 authentic way to help what the audience is talking about. Yeah, some of those channels get
 200, 250,000 comments over a race weekend. So there's a lot of stuff. So bringing those, boiling
 those things to the surface is really important so that they can authentically dive into the right
 conversations that kind of generate more excitement. If they can use it to kind of think about how
 the press conference is good, they can lead the drivers to say certain things in the press conference.
 That could be both to promote good stuff. It could also be to stop bad things from happening.
 Yeah, so it's a really interesting, really interesting how people are using the tech, the AI tech
 in lots of different ways to pick up different signals on social media.
 What Matthew, I mean, I worked on one of the first visualizations of social media for Verizon
 Wireless in 2010. We did a gigantic Twitter sentiment board. It was live at like an NFL game
 and it would light up and do things. It was based on sentiment, things like that. It was very
 rudimentary. This is 14 years ago. But I want to just clearly for our audience though, talk about
 specifically with the advancements and how you're using AI of how this isn't just a sentiment type
 thing. How it is actionable and really like comes to life for people and brands.
 Yeah, so the way we approach this is like you've got to really understand your client,
 your customer, what they're looking for. So it typically might be very often it's kind of a PR
 related message. Yeah, a good example is I interviewed someone from a very well-known drinks,
 global drinks brand, and they're very sensitive about people talking about then polluting
 the oceans with plastic. So you may or may not be able to guess who I'm talking about.
 So they spend an awful lot of money cleaning the oceans of hundreds of tons of plastic.
 They have a whale preservation program and they want to tell people about that. So what we're
 able to do is we're able to take the messages that they're looking for and with the advancements
 in AI, specifically large language models, we're able to create synthetic data sets. So the client
 gives us 10 source comments. They kind of say we're looking for stuff that sounds like this and
 whenever we whenever that gets posted, we want to lean into that conversation and we want to tell
 them, look, we're not polluting the oceans. We're actually we're saving the whales, we're saving
 the dolphins and we remove this. So PR and kind of crisis people are using these things to get
 to very specific content in very specific ways. More generalistic people are using those large
 language models techniques. So we use it's a bit techy and I'm not going to profess to be an
 expert on this. But there's a technique called rag which is developed by Facebook which takes
 customers own data. So their own voice, their brand guidelines, their brand voice,
 their kind of the responses that they give to their call center to talk to their clients,
 pulls that all together. They couple that with the large language model to generate authentic
 yeah, on brand voice responses for clients. So they use it inbound. How can we detect specific
 messages and they're using it outbound for we want the suggested replies. Normally it's suggested
 to a human agent and they kind of have the last call and edit it of of how we respond to that.
 That's really come about in the last I would say 18 months to two years with where kind of
 open AI and the whole kind of large language model movement has gone and being able to take
 we can do lots more than we used to. Yeah I mean it could just process so much more data quickly
 and then not only process it it can interpret right it's like it's the interpretation probably
 that's the you know the stuff that'll blow your mind it feels like. Yeah I mean it's picking up on
 these like for brands it's picking up on specific messages normally that they're looking for but
 they're also after the intelligence that they they kind of don't know that's there but yeah fine
 I wouldn't say finding it is easy yet but it's it's democratizing access to the data because
 we've got a developer we're doing at the minute I mean it's a bit cheesily named in its
 prototype it's called Asgar when and Asgar when it's really it's aimed at the kind of the
 non-technical person within a marketing team or a social media team who wants to ask a question
 of their data so it might be what was the most positive 10 comments made on my social media
 what was the most talked about top three talked about topics on my social media so the idea is
 you can use like have a conversation with your social media channel and ask it questions
 you know on TikTok what was my most talked about event which channel did the most so you're
 pulling all this data out in in the way humans like to do it which is I want to ask a question
 and I want to get an answer that isn't deeply technical so bad news for sort of some of the data
 analysts who spend their days kind of translating what a marketing director might give them
 and then turning it into like a sequel query to interrogate data so this this will be really
 game jade because it allows businesses to make quick rapid decisions like in the moment I think
 that when we get to that point yeah we're going to see we it's going to make creativity
 within ad campaigns really really exciting is this a product and you know what the development
 that goes into this that's for large brands only like is this you know how scalable is this
 I mean obviously I get that you know a mom and pop coffee shop does it need to scan million
 pieces of data but but there's but there's I don't know e-commerce brands that might be smaller
 but they serve a large wide audience or they'd like to and you know intent data would be very valuable
 to them but is this a attainable or reachable or scalable you know where does that start to stop
 with our one yeah well I mean our model is really to address that part in the market to do it
 through partners so there are a lot of there are a lot of organizations that already have partners
 that are helping them they're doing these types of things so we partner with both kind of traditional
 outsources that providing kind of people services customer experience type services and also
 with marketing agencies are kind of there are two kind of go-to markets from partners most of
 most of those organizations are providing insights client intelligence all these types of things
 so what we're trying to do is our go-to market we are going direct as well but we're kind of layering
 that into the services that that that they're providing so so it becomes intrinsic when people are
 doing campaigns further further down than that like you say kind of e-commerce yeah we're working
 with partners that go into the SME marketplace so so we're able to give it to them and they're
 able to give it to their kind of sector a lot of these a lot of these insights are very often
 sector-specific so once you understand the sector or work with a sector specialist partner
 you can you can drive real good economies of scales and therefore make the products available
 to lots of people so we're early stages but I definitely think we're we're not far from this being
 very affordable very quickly you know we're not talking five years we're talking 12 months
 yeah lots of a lot of startups are building this into their kind of yeah their kind of strategy
 about how they target that mass market of businesses that you know that aren't enterprises
 this strikes you could really you could build
 essentially you might have a target market in mind but tools like this could help you pivot and
 or adapt target markets that are maybe larger or different than what you anticipated like if suddenly
 your product has a use case or is gaining steam with soccer moms for some reason you know like
 you could build you know niche target markets from this data that might not have been your first
 inclination yeah definitely definitely and the other thing the other thing that's coming in again
 in Europe where it bowled into GDPR regulations and probably a slightly strict away then in the US
 but some of those demographic overlays are quite important and there there's there's lots of
 businesses now kind of stepping into that fray so you can get alongside the insights data you
 can get a demographic overlay so we were able to tell a sports governing body that we said 20%
 of your audience of your followers is women but they provide 60% of the positive
 sentiment on your channels so go and recruit more women because they're good but they they send
 a great message out so those types of nuggets are they're quite you know you have to think through
 how to write the reports but yeah I think we're the large language model kind of product is really
 changing that and allowing you to kind of discover discover exactly as you're talking about
 different demographics different target markets within what you're doing the key is you have
 to have a conversation to start with so so at the heart is the creativity around the story
 you're telling you've got to excite people with your ads or your message or your content so you
 kind of got to have a conversation to start with otherwise no one's commenting on your socials
 and you've kind of got nothing to analyze in the first place yeah yeah well I mean in theory
 how does it work Matthew I mean as far as it like it just industry aggregation of data like no
 okay it's one thing for Coca-Cola that wants to know their billion customers how they're talking
 about it it's another for Coca-Cola startup that wants to you know wants sentiment data
 for the industry so I mean I would I assume you might work with both correct I know that you
 want straight to brands for an agency or the brand might be but you can also roll up I guess
 categorically right yeah you can do a bit of that but a lot of that data is a lot of that data
 is tied up certainly on meta so the way because of the I don't know if it was big news in the US but
 the Cambridge Analytica scandal over here which was really the UK company that was targeting
 individuals as part of the election campaigns we're going back 10 years now meant that meta had
 to reapply kind of all its data privacy policies and laws so now getting any permissions to access
 data you know for us to do that we have to go through a complete app review process it takes at
 least two weeks every time we tweak a change in them it's a real kind of lengthy process so a lot
 of the a lot of the data is tied up in those data pools so is actually accessible to the kind of
 base companies some sell it like X you can you can sign up to their their data or you can sign up
 to one of the kind of big social listening platforms that are kind of they're listening to the
 kind of 10% social media sentiment that's going around the sprinkler brand watch these are the
 kind of big players in those sectors but they're spending a lot of money to get hold of that data
 and put it in these vast data pools the only way you can do it affordably is to know exactly where
 you're looking so so you have to have a kind of use case in order to do that doing it generally
 is quite expensive yeah at the moment yeah interesting distinction and I can understand if you're
 wanting personalized data I guess it's actually the the roll up of that data and what it tells you
 not necessarily so that I can target you know Jane Smith because I know she wants to buy it but more
 that the the aggregation of that knowledge because you would think I mean and I'm not suggesting
 anything to forest here Matthew but scraping what is public information you know for posts that are
 public and not necessarily made to only specific people or whatever that that information could
 be aggregated in a way that could tell you things I'm not saying that's what Arwen does but
 I don't know where the relying it gets drawn with publicly available data versus you know your
 personal profile and and then targeting you with you know leather shoes because you know we know
 you like that yeah well I mean you can certainly do that within the within the ad platforms within
 social media so so we we do do kind of retarding lists for clients so they run a meta-rad we analyze
 who looked at it who responded it within the meta ecosystem and and then we tell them the next time
 you run the ad don't run it against this audience because they don't like you but run it against
 this audience because they do like you so yeah we find that happens in lots of in lots of different
 micro communities so you can definitely do it within your own data set yeah but kind of aggregating
 up is more challenging yeah there are there are definitely businesses out there that will do scraping
 they will and there's nothing illegal to doing that it's like that as you say it's totally
 publicly available information Arwen doesn't do it because we've signed a tease and seize agreement
 with meta that says we won't do that so we only do it on kind of information that's in the box
 but there are there are businesses that do that and they aggregate data up and yeah I think
 that's usual we we we can access it and anyone can access it via X but you have to pay to access
 the X API but then you obviously only get an X view of the world then you don't get an X
 Facebook kind of Instagram view of the world which and ticked up which a lot of marketing
 professionals will want that kind of full view of what's going on do you guys enrich you know
 that is that you know as Arwen enrich those you know again the data that you have access to within
 the box of the brand are you enriching that data you know for targeting on digital channels
 well we are only only so far as like I said before we're part of a demographic type organizations
 we'll take an audience that reacted positively to maybe an ad or to an organic campaign
 we'll take all those people and then we'll say can you find me more people like this
 we'll do a demographic analysis exactly as you were saying they're soccer bums they're on these
 coast they kind of look like this so that the client could then run another lookalike campaign
 to target more people that look like those people so yeah so we can you can enrich it in that sense
 of the word but it's very difficult without doing it manually in this kind of data you know data
 private world to kind of do that in an automated fashion anymore yeah going back 10 years you'd
 have great pools filled up people doing that data enrichment Matthew as we close out you know
 the episode here um what's the where is it all headed for Arwen and you know what's sort of
 your you know future vision where this world of moderation on social media you know is headed
 like and what and how you see Arwen being a part of it well with everything that's happened in
 the last sort of six months we're definitely headed to um a much from our perspective uh probably
 on the main channels are much more kind of generally toxic environment I think the pendulum swung
 one way it went too far it's going to swing back the other way it'll swing past the middle
 and go to the other side yeah we know well yeah that's what always happens in these cases
 uh which which is which is unfortunately good for us because uh we'll be standing there waiting
 to help it to protect people's brand so that's uh that's the sort of uh the the the kind of
 meat too bit of the job the the moderation side uh what where we hope things are heading is
 they're heading the what we call our kind of insights intelligence we think that's a little bit
 more exciting it's about creating more engagement yeah that's where um that's where we think the
 future is on social media is giving people exactly what they want not hammering them with loads of
 ads that they don't really want to see getting in the way of their kind of user journey uh that they
 that they're accessing news and leisure and all sorts of uh their hobbies etc on these social media
 channels um so don't get in that don't get in the way give them exactly what what what people want and
 I think that uh giving people that intelligence as to how people behave online and what they respond
 to and what their interests are I think that that should help brands uh give people the content they
 want so you know I I see that becoming more affordable to more businesses um and being able to do
 it much quicker and you don't need as big a skill set as you used to technically in order to
 deliver it I love it where can everyone keep up with everything that you're doing Matthew with
 Orwin we are you can look at our website r1.ai we post all our news on there and um that's kind
 of the main channel I'm a link for for the CEO of a social media company I haven't got the
 biggest social media preference linked in is my uh network of choice that's kind of live and
 breathe and post stuff um uh I I'm on all the other social media's because I have teenage children
 and I have to check up on them occasionally yes I live in that world myself and hey
 if arwood can help protect them from some of the bad guys I'm all for it I just wanted to be done
 in a world where we're not moderating uh opinion yeah I totally agree with you totally agree with you
 Matthew is a pleasure having you on I really appreciate it but I appreciate thanks Ryan for having
 me hey guys you're to find us Ryan is right.com you'll find highlight clips from today's episode the
 full youtube video and audio and of course all the links to social media for arwood and myself
 and the show we appreciate you we know you have a choice in podcasting thank you for making us
 number one we'll see you next time we're right about now this has been right about now with Ryan
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