Approaches to Leadership Effectiveness with Tanner Chidester

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 I think sometimes they know they need to do it, but they try to do other things to feel like they're being productive,
 even though they know those are the wrong things to do.
 Like, you can't avoid it. When I got back and I was looking inside my business, I just knew I was like, I have to cut all these reps.
 And it was the whole sales team for a division, and I'm thinking I have to go out and find four new guys, not one, four.
 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 I'm Ryan Alford, your host. We save its radical. We cover it. We might cover it more than once.
 That's why we got Tanner. Titus are back. What's up Tanner?
 What's up, Ryan? Thanks for having me, man.
 Yeah, man. Founder of Elite CEOs, author of infinite income.
 You know, it's always infinite. We need infinite wisdom from Tanner.
 So glad to have you back, brother, and good to see you in Miami.
 I think we might have caught you in little better spirits last time we had you right in.
 I don't know what you've just been on a tour and I don't know what.
 I think someone maybe had kicked your puppy or something.
 That would not probably be surprising.
 Yeah, dude. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
 Yeah, man. What's been cooking? What's new in your world?
 Well, really since how long ago do we talk about what three months ago?
 Yeah, I think by the time this will be airing for five months. Yeah.
 Yeah, so I mean, quite a bit. So I came back from traveling and I had to kind of get my hands back in the business.
 It was a little bit of a mess and it's my fault.
 I mean, it's always your fault, unfortunately, which is the sucky part about being the leader.
 But just I put people in positions.
 I haven't trained them well enough on or shouldn't put them there in the first place.
 And so I've been spending last 60 days really just kind of fixing everything, just kind of fixing all the issues.
 I fired a whole sales team and when I my divisions replaced all of them had to get rid of some managers bringing some new people.
 There were just some training that wasn't happening and stuff like that.
 So I think when I started out as a little upset because you know, you get used to things being a certain way, I think.
 But it was nice to kind of get back in the thick and know that I can still do hard things outside of that.
 I've been working on something behind the scenes that I'll be launching probably early next year.
 So I'm excited about that. It hits all the hits all the things I think I need to hit a nine or 10 figure exit.
 So, you know, it's high price. It's a low to easy fulfillment.
 And I got the customer base for it too. So I'm excited about that. But that's most of it.
 So it's really been just balls to the wall since it got back not a lot of time to breathe.
 Yeah, man. I think it's an interesting, you know, one of the good too far down the path.
 But I think for people listening, a lot of entrepreneurs, different people.
 That story of, you know, scaling your business, letting go of some things, hiring people, not going as planned.
 Having to step back in. I mean, I've been there. And it's, it, where is you out?
 But it teaches you a lot too. I mean, you know, everything's, everything's a journey.
 Everything's learning, you know, if you're not learning, you're not growing.
 I know, I think a lot of people can relate to what that was like.
 No, 100%. I mean, we were joking about it earlier.
 But that's one of the things I like about, you know, like the sauna and the cold plunge and working out.
 And it, it's just, it's good to constantly do hard things so that you know when you're needed to do hard things, you can handle it.
 And I think a lot of people, they're not used to doing those things.
 So when they're confronted with something, they can't handle it.
 And I, I think that was, it was a good reminder, right? Because that's been so easy for me for a long time.
 And so it was nice to come back and, you know, hey, I'm going to have to do 16, 18 hour days to get things back in place.
 And I mean, you can imagine training one sales guy, imagine training four or five all at the same time, you know, so the amount of calls and stuff I was having to do and, you know, recordings, but I ultimately I love it.
 I don't know about you, but if I take too much time off, I honestly don't enjoy it.
 So what I really feel the best is when I've been working really, really, really hard. And then I got maybe a day, two days max.
 And I just get so recharged and I'm just ready to go back out. I really kind of enjoy that kind of on and off switch.
 Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm similar. I can, you know, like, especially now being able to work where a lot of us want to work.
 Like, you know, you're an online, you know, business and do all those things. So it's not like you're having to necessarily drive to an office every day.
 But you can turn it on on your phone and work, you know, as long as you need to. But I enjoy work because like if I, I used to play golf.
 And now I don't even play golf. I can't imagine playing golf for six hours, because I just be, you know, like I've been on my phone the entire time.
 And I don't know. It's like, there's not enough. I don't know if I don't have enough hobbies where I just enjoy work.
 Or like a combination of the two.
 Well, I think, I think it's interesting. You said that I think when I was younger, I grew up in a teacher household. It's not a lot of money.
 And I always told my mom, I remember I would tell her, I'm going to get rich. So I can buy those pre-made meals, you know, those pre-package like healthy meals, right?
 Because she'd always get a bunch of pasta and like, you know, cheap meats and stuff. And it was not bad childhood. It just, there were seven kids. My dad was a teacher, right?
 And so you work your whole life to make a bunch of money. And then once you have all the money, you realize it's really not as great as it's turned out to be.
 And I think I said to one of my buddies, I said, you know, I feel bad for people who never become rich because they don't realize it's not really as good as they think it is.
 So there's other whole lives thinking that if they became rich, it's all other problems, but all the rich people know it really doesn't do that.
 So there's obviously benefits. There's a lot of things I can do that other people can't. I got to go see you on the heat in the bucks yesterday, a couple.
 My videographer out his little brother's down, they just love the honest and, you know, you can pay top dollar for really good seeds. So there's stuff like that. But overall, I think, like enjoying the work is the goal.
 Like just getting lost and good work because I don't think as human beings were for me to sit around a lot. And with all the modern technology, it's really easy to sit around a lot and just be completely lazy.
 When you're only thinking about yourself, you're not interacting with human beings. You're just scrolling on your phone. I think that's a recipe for disaster.
 Yeah, absolutely. Let's remind everybody a little bit Tanner about Elite Teos and, you know, how you help aspiring entrepreneurs.
 Sure. So I start off in the fitness industry. When I was younger, I wanted to play NFL. And I took that LAD one level. I got hurt a bunch. I don't think I was good enough.
 I did play some first round draft picks. So that was a blessing to really see. When you see a first round draft pick, you'll know, I'll just leave it at that. You'll know their first round draft pick.
 And I started a fitness business and it did super, super well. And it did so well that I had trainers start asking me for help, especially from the clickfunnels community because that was.
 Oh, four, what, five, six years ago. And I had my little two comma club award and they're like, Oh, this guy, you know, he got it not being a business coach. And so ironically, all these people want me to business coach him.
 And I said, Hey, man, like, I don't want to do that. Like I hate business coaches.
 But I think after a while, they, they keep asking you see the dollar signs. I was a young guy. I was 2526. So I started doing it. And then that did so well that I started helping people outside of fitness. So in short, when people ask, you know, what we do or what Eliseo does is I just showed everyone what I did to become a multi millionaire.
 You know, from the messaging, the sales, the marketing, the ads, hiring, training, managing, all that stuff back in systems. And there's just a lot of people out there who don't know what to do. And what we're trying to just short cut that for them. That's really it.
 What do you, you know, with 2024 approaching in this episode may or may not be in January 24 for your listeners out there.
 You know, we recorded this in December. And we'll be, we don't give a ship. We'll be transparent about about that. Like the timing this stuff doesn't happen one day and go live the next.
 When you have the number one marketing and business show like we do. We do have a like lined up.
 But Tanner's one of my favorite people now and one of the smartest hell. And so like, but Tanner, talk to me like it seems like there's this oversaturation of coaches.
 And I don't have to tell you that I'm sure. So, you know, I'd love to know, you know, like what's going to, what's going to be the great aha differentiator like with obviously more more people are tuning in and hiring coaches.
 And hiring coaches are doing that. I don't think that's going away. And you enlighten us because you're in the business. But what's going to separate or be the differentiator for the ones that stick around and the ones that, you know, end back end up back in fast food.
 You got to be good. So it's funny you said that because I've been in it six years now. And so when I first got in, I think it was newer or it seemed newer to me.
 And then COVID hit. And so when COVID hit, it just accelerated everything because everybody was looking for things online and stuff like that. And so Facebook, I mean, Facebook was love in life.
 I mean, they were serving all kinds of those ads. I think now what's happened is a trust has gone down because trust is so low. It's just taking an immense amount of marketing to get people through.
 And to answer your question, I think the first thing. So the first reason it's getting harder is when you think about it.
 And, you know, like a hundred million dollar offers came out and I thought I'd like really hit on a lot of these things. Well, is that it's if you're, let's say your business consultant and there's 10 other business consultants.
 You're having to get people to understand, hey, I do similar things, but I'm better. And that's a harder pitch than I do something completely different. I build flying cars and no one's doing it.
 So that's the number one thing to understand why it's gotten harder because now the trust is lower. And they see all these different options. And then a lot of people, what do they do? They take the cheapest option versus the best option, right?
 This price is what pay values what you get. A lot of people make mistakes there. So that means the marketing has to be really, really good. And a lot of people just aren't going to market. That's why having, you know, the hundred million dollar offer is makes it easier because the marketing doesn't have to be as good.
 The team doesn't have to be as good. The sales reps commence up to still make a lot of money. So I think that's the first part. The second part is then thinking about what can you do differently? And so like I'll give you one of my clients who has an amazing offer.
 He legally and he's super crazy with lawyers. So I know he's doing it legally because he does the last stuff I might do. Like you don't need to do all that.
 So he helps people get green cards and he can't guarantee it, but it's essentially guaranteed. So on his app, it's crazy. His Apple say, the price is 15 K. Can you pay it?
 They get on the call and there's no sales call. It's just basically there are just customer service rep who just processes the payment. And so to me, I'm going, wow, that is a great offer.
 I'm like, that is a really good offer. And then I think the final part to kind of put a cherry on top is part of why I'm looking to do other things is not because I hate what I do and I love it.
 And to be honest, it's helped a lot of people and being back recently, I've been so out of the business for so long that it was kind of good to get back in the trenches to get reminded.
 It really helped some people like those send messages and say, you know how to guide the other day said, hey man, I was doing zero dollars for three months and I hadn't told anyone and then you helped me was we had a conversation.
 And now I've done 70 K and 30 days and it's like, I don't I don't care for like me like I don't need more money, but it just I was like, wow, that that really is cool because you kind of get really far away from that sometimes.
 But then the other part is just I'm trying to do things that hit more of the criteria that billionaires seem to follow and with all the conversations I've had the reason a lot of them don't stay in the info space is not.
 I think there's a lot of good there's a lot of bad it's 80 20 80% is bad 20% is good, but it's because it's not a no brainer.
 And so when the offers not a no brainer it's very hard to scale because you have to spend so much money on marketing and sales teams and that cuts margin.
 So a lot of these companies I've seen just scale to tremendous levels.
 They basically don't even have to market so if you get 60% of your expenses back.
 It's a lot easier to scale so hopefully I answered all of that, but that's time of trying to approach there.
 It's interesting, you know, back to like the offer discussion, you know, finding.
 And I know her Moses got the book out and all these things and like, you know, but everyone's got guarantees now like it's funny.
 I remember when it came out everyone started doing the guarantees and $100 million at least comes out.
 You'll see like it's it's really funny. It's like you see this kind of like title wave of shifts. It's really funny.
 But it's like a people calling those bluffs like I've seen some lawsuits flying around with some of these people that have, you know, been making the offers is about making the offers about keeping the offer.
 Yeah, 100%. I mean, yeah, you have to be able to deliver and a lot of people don't I think the best like guarantee to usually make is performance based.
 I mean, if if the client has to do some work to hit the goal, you have to do performance space.
 You can't just do unconditional like get it whenever you want in my personal opinion.
 Yeah. And, you know, we do you know how an ad agency and marketing agency in a minute in the industry for 20 years.
 And it's become performance marketing has been both a great thing for marketing and a terrible thing because what it's done is it's made agencies.
 Certainly accountable to outcomes, which is what's probably a little overdue. However, it's diminished the services that agencies do the ideas that we create that take time to manifest outcomes.
 IE building a brand. So it takes time for branding to seed and you don't see branding results overnight. Certainly, if you pay me $20 to run Facebook ads, you know, I should deliver an R.O.A.
 eventually on that and that's reasonable. But the value and the things that I'm doing to elevate your brand value, your cache, your authority isn't paying dividends month one, two or three or even month six.
 And that's the only thing I've hated about, you know, all this, you know, guarantee performance driven stuff.
 Yeah. Well, so first off, the funny part is when everyone's giving the guarantee, it means nothing. The other thing is a lot of people, what they don't understand is they hear the word guarantee and they think it's like this amazing promise, but I'm going, look, think about it.
 Like if someone says, Hey, we'll work with you until you get the result. I go, well, if you haven't gotten in three months, why would you want to work with them for another three months for three?
 Like, you know, like, like people don't think through they're just so scared. They're so fear based that they don't even think through the guarantee.
 And then like yesterday, one of my sales guys was talking to me about a combo and some people don't even know what good looks like.
 So this individual was doing, I think roofing and he'd spent 25 K on ads and he's made 100 K.
 And he's like, well, I think I should have made 10 X. And I'm going 10 X. Who told you that? Like 10 X.
 Like four X is amazing. Four X, you're crushing. I mean, if you're collecting four X, two X to me is my goal. If like, we can collect two X.
 The rest is like payment plans. Whatever. That's fine. And then they think that the media buying company is the issue when I'm thinking, well, what do you do for follow ups? Do you have emails? Do you have setters? Do you have sales reps? Do you have text messages? Do you do retarget? Oh, we don't do any of that.
 So why did what why are you changing media buying companies? And I'm thinking the media buying company who's getting you a four X return is crushing it for you.
 You just don't have any systems or follow up processes, which is more important than the actual ads. So there's a lot of stuff like that that makes me shake my head, but people just don't know what they don't know.
 And if you want to learn from me directly, join my newsletter, Ryanoffer.com backslash newsletter. Sign up. I give daily advice on marketing, personal branding, podcasting life. Give that a shout. Join that. It's free. Staley, just like this show. Give away our best advice.
 You know, just because you turn on something overnight, does it mean you immediately have the authority to sell it?
 You know, we've like backed down saying the diminishment of brand and or reputation like you can brand is is is a is a big word or a small word, depending on your position, but like it's credibility. It's time.
 It's, you know, authority, all those things and people forget you got to play that game too.
 I think brands like YouTube, you know, like I think brands like YouTube. So recently, we kind of changed. I mean, I've been doing YouTube for forever, not very well.
 I'll just point that out not very well, but because I just throw I was just throwing stuff at the wall, but recently we started doing these one-to-ones and it's been great.
 Because when I feel it's more in alignment with my brand, I'm not really trying to be flashy. I just want to put out like good info.
 And then number two was that the videos like I'm actually helping them build their business in a two hour window.
 And so what's been crazy is like the videos are doing significantly better like way better.
 And I think I might be on the something and it took me kind of years and years and years of like sticking with it. And so I agree with you a lot of people.
 They're just so short term sided that they're not willing to play the long game.
 Yeah. And I mean, we all got to make sales and we got to live. So like there's two sides of that coin.
 But if you're wanting to be an entrepreneur, keep the day job while you build enough to turn that switch and then move over.
 I think everybody wants to become the entrepreneur overnight and let that be the only thing they do immediately when it's just not always that easy.
 Talk a little bit. We didn't talk much last time about your book, infinite income. I think it all is kind of we're dancing all around and all through probably some of the topics in that.
 But what are some of the key takeaways from that?
 Well, the first thing I learned from writing that book is I didn't do nearly a good enough job.
 And what I mean by that is I just wanted to get a book out. And my I guess my intention was part of it was I wanted to use it for marketing, right? I wanted to get out my story.
 And I remember I asked one of my buddies who had a book that's crushed and I said, you want to do like, why why did your book do so well?
 And he's like, well, I wrote it like 10 times. You know, I spent, you know, 5,000 hours wherever it was, you know, I don't know the numbers, but I'm saying here going, huh, how long did it take me and it didn't take me nearly enough time?
 So that was a that was a hard lesson learned where I think it's a good book, but it could have been way better, right? And I think going from good to great, right?
 Even that book good to great. You have to put in 200% more effort for 20% more reward, right?
 Yeah, what was number one? But in terms of the book, I tried to make it very short, so it's like 100 something pages.
 And it's just exactly what I did to be successful. And it's a little bit of my story. So it's like, hey, here's my backstory. Here's where I came from. And then here's what I did. And here's how you do it. If I could redo it, I would have spent more time just thinking through maybe the chapters and what I would teach.
 I would have put more links for videos or QR codes, because I think that's something that I really wanted to help teach. But for whatever reason, you're going to laugh, but when I was writing the book, I didn't think to do that.
 I just thought, well, I got to try to describe it with words, but obviously there's something that way easier to describe in videos.
 I think I was a little short side. I wanted to get the book out quick and stuff like that. So a couple of mistakes. But overall, if someone reads the book, what they'll get is a little bit of my story. And then exactly what I did as I went.
 So they're getting the story as they go. But then here's how I got my first client. Here's what I said on the calls. Here's what I did in that stuff like that. And that was my intention was to try to help people know where to start.
 Because a lot of books I read, I hate them because they talk about a lot of mindset. And I think some people need that. I'd say most people do. But for a guy like me, I just like, just tell me what to do and I'll do it.
 I don't need you to give me all this hard work stuff like I do that. I just need to know what to do. And that's what I tried to make my book is make it very tactical.
 Yeah. No, you and I are somewhere in that regard. Like I like, I mean, I mean, I get and appreciate that we all have to get that, you know, be in the right place and create habits that make us work hard and do.
 All right. I got I'm not perfect. I'm far from perfect. But I don't need motivation. You know, I don't need the mind tricks. Just just cut to the chase.
 But what what like and I look and I appreciate the hell out of you, you know, being transparent about your process with the book. I think a lot of people resonate with, you know, that that honesty, authenticity.
 But, you know, maybe using that as the got, you know, infinite income and your own experience.
 What are maybe like a couple of things from, you know, your experience and things in the book or just, you know, what you know now that are the biggest, I don't know, shortfalls or things that people don't understand about that process and what it takes to make it happen.
 Yeah. So there's two clients. I spoke to recent. Like I said, I've been out for so long that it's fun to talk to you now because these are recent. So I had two clients and one is really struggling. They're both struggling.
 So what was doing 25 K a month and they wanted to get to 100 and, you know, they were breaking down crime because their family's going through stuff and her parents and stuff like that and the other one was kind of more in beginning stages, but similar spot.
 Girlfriend left them had to move home. I mean, I was like, it sucks. And so the first thing I do when that happens is I tell me what you're doing.
 Just what do you do all day? And more times than not, what they're doing is things that do not produce sales whatsoever. And it just mind boggles me. So I sit there and go, well, what do you do?
 And how do you make sales to make sales in a high ticket business? Let's just assume the person has a high ticket business. You need to get sales calls. Well, how do you get sales calls?
 You need leads. How do you get leads? Messages or ads, right? So to me, I'm going, if you're not making the money you want to make, why are you doing anything besides talking to people with cold DMs or running ads?
 There's really nothing else you should be doing. And what a lot of times are doing is like, well, I'm taking a course or I'm reading a book or I'm making content.
 And I'm thinking who watches your content? You have a hundred followers.
 Like, you know what I mean? It's just, it's more about what they need to stop doing more than what they need to do sometimes as well.
 And so what gets me kind of sad is a lot of people will say, this doesn't work, but it's either they're not doing it or two, they're not doing enough volume.
 So when people will ask me, and I talk about in the book, how many, how many cold DMs did you send the day when you were broke? I said, man, I would send at least 200 today, if not more.
 And so when I did that, I would make sales and people like, well, I can't do it. I'm like, you just don't want to do it for eight hours because that sucks, but I was willing to do it.
 And so that really is the biggest pitfall as a scale. It turns more into team building.
 Lot of great solar producers horrible with people, horrible at management, horrible, horrible at understanding that they need to think about them and not themselves.
 People don't work for you. They work for them. So how can you make it advantageous for them to help your mission? Those will be the biggest three things.
 And that's what gets me frustrated because a lot of times they're just, they're just doing the wrong stuff and it's, it's so fixable and they feel hopeless, but it's really not they just don't know what they're doing.
 Yeah, and I don't, I, you've experienced it firsthand and I assume I don't know, but and I don't even, I don't even have the guys name to give him credit for, but he's well known like in the sales and marketing industry.
 And he pretty much says like leads or everything like, like throw it all the way, like, you know, but leads are everything because it's just like you said, if you don't have leads, you don't have the potential for closes and you have to get it back.
 It's volume and you have to get in front of more people because like, I mean, the content all that all that matters, but none of it matters if you don't have leads.
 I ran a ad back in the day, it was called rich trainer versus poor trainer. It was off Robert Keats. He's rich that poor ad, right?
 Yeah, a lot of people get pissed off, but it worked really well. And the premise was, all of these trainers are so good at the exercising and the cardio and the meal plans and you're broke.
 I'm like, well, why are you broke? Because you don't know how to get sales. You don't know how to get customers. You're not commensible enough, right?
 And so it was funny that I'm probably one of the highest paid trainers ever. Like, I don't know, maybe someone makes way more of that.
 But I mean, even when I was just only doing a fitness company, I was making a couple of million here. Most trainers, best paid trainers in Miami, probably 25,300 a year, right? Best paid.
 It wasn't because I was the best trainer. And I even said that I'm like, there's a lot of trainers. You're probably more experienced and better than me, but I was better at sales and running a business. And you're right.
 I mean, you do need to go product eventually, but I think even marketing sales superseded products for beginners because they don't know your products is good or bad till they buy.
 So if you can't even get them to buy, they're never even going to experience your product. So I would agree with you. It's a huge issue for most people. And honestly, the way they could fix it, they won't do it.
 But I tell people, go do door-door sales for three months. You'll never suck at sales again, but they don't want to do it. They don't want to. So it takes some years and years and years and call and call and calls.
 So door-door sales was a blessing for me because I would do 100 doors a day. So the feedback loop I got was significantly faster than doing, let's say, high ticket sales where you might only get, I don't know, depending on the business, two to 10 calls a day.
 So your feedback loop takes, you know, probably 10 times longer than if you did door-door sales and it's easier than door-door sales. So anyways, I wish more people would do that. That should actually be required in high school instead of all the other nonsense they make you do.
 I mean, door-door sales, I mean, you can do that. You can do anything.
 So people do what they want, you know, back to your saying, like people, you know, poor trainer, they enjoy filming the content. They enjoy doing the exercises. They enjoy talking more than they should, you know, to people, maybe about things that aren't sales.
 And they enjoy checking boxes on the page, but it's not fun to cold DM 400 people in a day or to cold call 40 people in a day or two.
 And so we can make all of the excuses in the world, but we do what we want to do.
 And it's funny that I mean, I've had a couple posts recently where that's the thing that frustrates me. It's, you guys are doing all these things to avoid the work that you know you need to do.
 It's almost that I think sometimes they know they need to do it, but they try to do other things to feel like they're being productive, even though they know those are the wrong things to do.
 You can't avoid it. When I got back and I was looking inside my business, I just knew I was like, I have to cut all these reps.
 And it was the whole sales team for a division and I'm thinking I have to go out and find four new guys, not one for.
 And I didn't want to do it, but I just knew that's what I had to do. And I think a lot of people avoid that. And they'll try to go, well, maybe I can fix it. Maybe I can just work with this person.
 Sometimes you just have to look reality in the face and just go out of it. And I just think a lot of people they don't want to do it.
 Yeah, but I mean, there's something, I guess other than just the hard reality truth, like that you get that when you're working with people to get them over that home, or at the end of the, I mean, I know at the end of the day, it's just that person's kind of decided to do it.
 Is there one trigger or another is just so individual.
 I think it depends on the person. I think I'm a very logical kind of straight, no BS type guy. So I think it does depend on maybe the person I'm talking to.
 I mean, we have like, like I'll have mindset coaches and stuff on staff in case like I missed the mark. I'm like, hey, like, talk to them in case like I'm being rude to you or you don't like I'm saying it.
 But a lot of times I try to get people to think of the worst thing that can happen. So I'll say, I just say, I'm like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Like, well, I could lose everything.
 Okay.
 So if you could lose everything, then that should be strong enough motivation to send a couple of messages.
 Yeah.
 Right. You know, because for me, that's where I got, I got so low in life, I just was willing to do anything.
 And when I say anything, I'm talking almost probably, probably some illegal things too. I was getting that desperate.
 I didn't want to do go down that route, but I was so desperate where I finally said, you know, I will do anything to be successful or I'll be homeless.
 And I was genuinely fine to be homeless. I was like, if that's what it takes, that's what I'll do.
 But it's very different saying it. It's very different feeling it. And I think a lot of people, they talk a lot of shit.
 But their actions say otherwise. And that's what's always been frustrating for me because the way my dad raised me is he just raised me that no one's coming to save you.
 And I think people forget that they think that it's going to magically happen just won't no one cares. The government's busy doing whatever they're doing.
 And no one's going to help you. And it's, it's a hard reality for some people to face because it's kind of sad, kind of lonely. But I try to get people to kind of understand that.
 And whether it's through motivational words or using my own stories, there's nothing I haven't done that I asked people to do.
 Exactly. Yeah, spend three million on coaches. I've hired hundreds of staff members. I've got multiple businesses. I've had lawsuits. I've been in charge bags. I mean, it's so whenever someone's complaining, I'm like, yeah, I get it.
 But I really do get it because I've been there. And so that gives you a lot of power as well coming from experience.
 What's the big plans? I mean, maybe some you can talk about something, but what's the store for 2024?
 Yeah. So this last year when I left the company, the whole point was to interview a bunch of billionaires or at least mega millionaires, people sold for the lowest was 40 million, you know, terrible, right?
 I think the highest was four billion. And the thing that was the same across the board, typically bootstrap billionaires. So no VC capital was they had an internet marketing background, which I thought was very interesting because it gets a lot of shit, but they understand how to market.
 It makes that with a good product and good products that I typically saw scale was $1,500 plus easy to know fulfillment.
 Two examples, Justin Hartfield sold WeMaps, I think is 1.6 billion, and it was Yelp for weed. So there's no fulfillment.
 And the other guy was these are just two Scott Cohen sold bite for I want to say a billion or something under two years, and it was just an invisible line competitor and you just outmarking them.
 And there's like this throw on the braces. I think they're done. There's probably recurring somewhere, but that was pretty much it. And so I'm working on something behind the scenes. I'll probably discuss it next year because I was telling you I like to make mistakes in private.
 It's kind of nice actually been really nice to just like no one knows what's going on and I make a mistake, but it hits that criteria. And that's why I feel it's going to do really well because it's got all the key components I need to be successful with it.
 And I'm so I've gotten so good at sales and marketing that you know if I can just build out this product and service that I think is infinitely easier to deliver on.
 I'm going to have something special because really if you look at what I've done, I probably built one of the hardest businesses you can build, you know, 30 million.
 A year is pretty much top line for most consulting info space companies. I mean, maybe if you get above that, but it's very rare. That's usually about the top line.
 And so I've hit that right. I've done big numbers. And so to me, I'm going, man, if I can do that, this will be a cake walk, at least that's where my heads are. And I could completely fail to be an utter failure.
 That's also why like I'm not saying what it is yet because I could completely bomb. And then you're going to be like, well, it's a matter of how that work out. And I can tell you that I didn't go well, but.
 But then we'll have you all we'll have you on and you can write the book about the failure. See, that's the thing.
 Yeah, that's part of the brand.
 Infinite income would be hilarious because I feel like infinite misery or something like that.
 Oh, that's what I'm excited about now is I'm just trying to continue to push myself and I I'm 31 now.
 And I feel like I'm ready for the next step of my career. Like I'm just ready to do something big, you know, like really big where people don't just say, Oh, Tanner's just a coach.
 That's not how I want to die.
 And nothing wrong with it, but I just don't want to be known as like a coach. I want people to kind of look at me like damn like that's impressive.
 You know, and not for other people, but it's for myself. Like I want to prove to myself I can do it.
 Hey, you can't be legendary unless you take chances.
 That's the true.
 It's been good catching up, brother. Where can you make keep up with all three and you got going on?
 Yeah, honestly, Instagram has been the best. So if people, I'm putting out like crazy amounts of free content right now. And it's been doing really well and it's really been exciting for me.
 So if anyone's watching this, just shoot me a message on IG.
 Tanner dot chitester, maybe mentioned radcasts, I just say radcasts. So I know you came from there and I'll try to give up any resources are helpful.
 And yeah, I've really been enjoying life lately doing that. So that'd be great.
 Sweet. You guys can find all of tannish tanners info in the show notes from today. And you know, to find us the radcast.com.
 Search for tannish tanners to find a couple of his episodes and more to come. It'll be either the biggest blow up one way or the other.
 Oh, you're to tell that story. Appreciate your brother. Thanks for having me man. I was glad to be here.
 I'm at Ryan offered on all the platforms. We'll see you next time.
 To listen and watch full episodes, visit us on the web at the radcast.com or follow us on social media at our Instagram account,
 v dot rad dot cast or at Ryan all for stay radical.
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