Episode 34 - Power, Politics and the Bible

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Welcome to Spirit Outspoken, the podcast for Christians who are ready to explore the deeper side of faith.

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We believe God's truth is bigger than what we've been taught, and that real spirituality isn't something to fear, it's something to discover.

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Each week we open the space to explore miracles.

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Energy, healing consciousness and divine science all through the lens of a God who loves us, and a faith that's still unfolding.

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Whether you're deconstructing, rebuilding, or just feeling spiritually stuck, this is your place to reconnect with wonder, deepen your walk and let the spirit speak.

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<v Jaisa>Hello and welcome to Spirit Outspoken you guys, I am so excited about this week.

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<v Jaisa>Jason and I have taking a look at how the Bible was made and created, why the books that are included were included, the history of what was going on at the time.

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<v Jaisa>Who made the decisions on what went in and what didn't.

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<v Jaisa>And it has been absolutely fascinating.

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<v Rachael>Eyeopening

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<v Jaisa>has brought up so many more questions and it's like, it's brought up more questions than answers.

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<v Jaisa>So don't, don't,

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<v Rachael>don't,

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<v Jaisa>don't be prepared to have answers in this episode.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>But still, but it's

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<v Rachael>still

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<v Jaisa>eye-opening.

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<v Jaisa>It's so interesting'cause we've talked offline about this, how as two women who have grown up in the Christian faith.

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<v Jaisa>We have never taken time to look at how this important document that has played a critical role in our own lives, how it came to be.

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<v Jaisa>I know, and I don't know what I thought about the Bible.

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<v Jaisa>Like I thought and listen, I've been Christian for almost 41 years.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>Birthday's coming up, sad times, and I,

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<v Rachael>I,

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<v Jaisa>I don't know if I thought like the Bible came down on.

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<v Jaisa>Horseback.

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<v Jaisa>I don't, I don't, I don't know.

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<v Jaisa>I don't know if it, a stork brought it and just said, Hey, here's the holy word.

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<v Jaisa>I, I honestly like thinking about it now.

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<v Jaisa>I feel so silly for saying I was something without even really understanding the origins of the text.

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<v Jaisa>You get what I'm saying?

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<v Jaisa>It's like it holds so much weight and meaning in our lives and like to not even understand the history of it.

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<v Jaisa>Is confusing, but at the same time, once we find out the history, which you guys like, buckle up.

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<v Jaisa>This is gonna be shocking.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>To many, not just eyeopening.

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<v Jaisa>Shocking.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>To find out how this has really assembled.

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<v Jaisa>But I think, you know, it also begs the question like, did we not know about it?

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<v Jaisa>'cause we didn't ask?

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<v Jaisa>Or has it been intentionally sort of shielded from people because it becomes problematic when the history surfaces.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>You know, I don't know.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>Like I said, more questions than answers, but the questions get deeper.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah okay.

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<v Jaisa>So just to like set the stage for what we're doing, we're gonna go through different phases Yes.

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<v Jaisa>Of how the Bible is developed.

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<v Jaisa>And there's 32 phases.

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<v Jaisa>I'm just kidding.

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<v Jaisa>No, there's only, there's six, there's six phases of how like at least like how we did our research and how we assembled it.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>So we're just gonna like bring you along this little journey.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>Trying to simplify it.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>It starts way back in 1200 BC before Christ was even born.

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<v Jaisa>It's a journey.

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<v Jaisa>That's right.

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<v Jaisa>Do you wanna kick us off?

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<v Jaisa>I can kick us off.

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<v Jaisa>Kick us off.

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<v Jaisa>So where we start, as Jason mentioned, 1200 to about 500 BCE, now we're looking at the Jewish people.

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<v Jaisa>Right?

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<v Jaisa>So this is really the formation of the Old Testament and the people of Israel at that time were this small tribal community.

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<v Jaisa>And unfortunately, they were often conquered, right?

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<v Jaisa>Either by the Egyptians or the Babylonians or the Assyrians.

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<v Jaisa>And so much of their early religion was passed down orally.

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<v Jaisa>It was their genealogy, it was songs, it was laws, and it was passed down by memory through word of mouth.

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<v Jaisa>And when Babylon destroyed their temple, which was in 586 BCE, and the exiled Jewish leaders at the time were going through kind of this identity crisis, right?

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<v Jaisa>Like they, they had no temple, they had no land.

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<v Jaisa>They were just like.

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<v Jaisa>Oh, our people, everything that was ours is lost.

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<v Jaisa>And so they really started to make an effort to take their oral history, their oral stories, and put them down on paper.

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<v Jaisa>And that was the beginning of the Old Testament.

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<v Jaisa>It stemmed less out of religion or spirituality and more out of preserving their culture and their history.

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<v Jaisa>Interesting.

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<v Jaisa>So it was like more historical record of who they were as a people.

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<v Jaisa>As a people, yes.

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<v Jaisa>Versus like their views and their, their thoughts and opinion.

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<v Jaisa>Right.

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<v Jaisa>And not, not like this is a way to live your life via religion.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>It was more Okay.

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<v Jaisa>As they describe it, cultural survival, if you will.

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<v Jaisa>Oh, of their people.

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<v Jaisa>That's interesting.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>And so through this writing process, right, it gave us the Torah, which is Genesis through Deuteronomy, and this kind of became central to Jewish life.

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<v Jaisa>And then other writings were also included from prophets.

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<v Jaisa>There were wisdom books or histories,

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<v Rachael>and

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<v Jaisa>those were all, collected into what we now call the entire Old Testament.

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<v Jaisa>And the process wasn't centralized though, so even at that time, different Jewish groups were referencing and reading off of different texts.

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<v Jaisa>And this is just an important point to note because it shows that even before Jesus came, you know, these messages and what people were reading were diverse, depending on what they valued, what they valued, where you grew up, who your family of origin was.

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<v Jaisa>And so that's kinda what it looked like in the beginning.

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<v Jaisa>Shocking, different human beings had different things that they valued or thought were important based on.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>How rich or poor they were, whether they were man or female, whether they had children or didn't have children, what their job was.

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<v Jaisa>Right.

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<v Jaisa>Like yeah.

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<v Jaisa>I mean, I, I'm saying this to make a point.

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<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

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<v Jaisa>Right?

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<v Jaisa>Like, God forbid that different human beings have different thoughts on how things could go down Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>In ways of hearing things and then putting them to paper, right?

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<v Jaisa>Mm.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Rachael>Yeah.

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<v Rachael>Yeah.

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<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

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<v Jaisa>Interesting.

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<v Jaisa>Okay, so we get to phase two.

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<v Jaisa>So this is the.

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<v Jaisa>Jesus movement.

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<v Jaisa>Woo woo, woo woo.

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<v Jaisa>I was gonna say Jesus moment, but I kind of like that better.

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<v Jaisa>That's like,

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<v Rachael>Sy.

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<v Jaisa>it is like, ta-da.

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<v Jaisa>I'm having my Jesus moment.

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<v Jaisa>That's

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<v Rachael>what I

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<v Jaisa>I'm in my Jesus flow.

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<v Jaisa>Okay, so Jesus movement, and this is where we see the spiritual revolution happen.

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<v Jaisa>And this is going from 30 CE to a hundred ce.

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<v Jaisa>So the time of Christ's, crucifixion and resurrection to around a hundred ce.

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<v Jaisa>So what was happening after Jesus's death followers across the Roman Empire, begin writing letters like Paul, for example, they're writing gospels, teachings, visions based on what their

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<v Rachael>experiences

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<v Jaisa>with

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<v Rachael>Christ

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<v Jaisa>or through the teachings of Christ.

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<v Jaisa>And there was no single belief system yet.

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<v Jaisa>So this is what is crazy to me.

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<v Jaisa>And Taylor Perkins is the one that like illuminated this for me.

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<v Jaisa>But you were saying that you also like heard about this in the podcast, right?

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<v Jaisa>That like, yeah, the diversity of the Christian belief system was not one in the same after Jesus died, which is like always what I thought.

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<v Jaisa>I thought it was like the same.

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<v Jaisa>And that it's split into like Protestant and then Episcopalian and then like Catholicism.

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<v Jaisa>Like that's what I thought.

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<v Jaisa>I thought there was one church when Jesus died.

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<v Jaisa>And that was the church until the Reformation.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>And that's when we got different denominations.

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<v Jaisa>Oh no, my friends, oh, no, no.

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<v Jaisa>There were a ton of different versions of Christianity in the beginning.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>A ton of different ones.

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<v Jaisa>And it was diverse, it was messy, it was mystical.

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<v Jaisa>It was decentralized.

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<v Jaisa>It was all over the place.

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<v Jaisa>Right?

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<v Jaisa>Like that is really important to note, right?

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<v Jaisa>Like it was not one school of thought.

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<v Jaisa>There was many and everybody was trying to get their messenger point of view and beliefs to the masses, right?

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<v Jaisa>Whoever was leading a certain type of message, believe like that was the message, right?

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<v Jaisa>And then somebody else who has like a different perspective of who Jesus was and what he was here to do.

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<v Jaisa>Had a different train of thought.

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<v Jaisa>So it was all over the place, right?

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<v Rachael>right?

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<v Jaisa>these different Christian groups wrote their own accounts of Jesus.

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<v Jaisa>And like I said, some are more mystical, some are more literal, some are more feminist in nature, and some are more.

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<v Jaisa>In line to enforce the hierarchy.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>So this is around the time that many were trying to get their voices or point of views heard.

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<v Jaisa>So a practice called pseudo biography.

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<v Jaisa>I know that's such a big word.

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<v Jaisa>Every time I see this word, I think of polygamy.

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<v Jaisa>Yep.

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<v Jaisa>Very, very different.

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<v Jaisa>Very different.

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<v Jaisa>Not the same thing.

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<v Rachael>thing.

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<v Jaisa>This was a common practice of writing something under the pen name of an apostle.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah, just so like it garners some kind of authoritative.

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<v Jaisa>Legitimacy, right?

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<v Jaisa>I, yeah.

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<v Jaisa>Is that right?

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>Okay.

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<v Jaisa>And like you researched this a little more, like what did you learn?

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>And I, I listened to a really great podcast that helped me wrap my mind around it.

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<v Jaisa>So this was before like, trademarks, copyrights everything, right?

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>So basically it was using someone else's name to legitimize your writing or bring attention to your writing.

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<v Jaisa>Oh, okay.

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<v Jaisa>So he gave the wonderful example of like, think if I wanted to write something about electric cars and going to Mars, no one would probably listen to anything I have to say if I sign it, Rachel Bony.

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<v Jaisa>But if I put Elon Musk's name on it.

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<v Jaisa>People would probably read it.

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<v Jaisa>Right.

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<v Jaisa>I, I still don't know if I would believe that, but anyway, that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother story.

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<v Jaisa>So it just helps you understand Yes.

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<v Jaisa>Like what was going on and how people would use this.

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<v Jaisa>And it was really common practice.

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<v Jaisa>So, here's what's fascinating, there's actually books in the New Testament that scholars believe people used a pen name to write.

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<v Jaisa>And so I'm gonna read off the ones that they are'cause I just know everybody's probably curious.

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<v Jaisa>Are you ready?

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<v Jaisa>Here's, I'm ready.

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<v Jaisa>Here's the list.

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<v Jaisa>Ephesians, Colossians, second Thessalonians first and second.

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<v Jaisa>Timothy Titus.

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<v Jaisa>Hebrews first and second, Peter You can actually put these things through a computer.

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<v Jaisa>And it'll show you No, they actually are not writing in any type of similar format or style as the author would've, there's things that they will talk about that like weren't even around in.

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<v Jaisa>The author's lifetime, in these, it's almost like forensic, like handwriting.

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>But like, even, even less, like more than that.

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<v Jaisa>It's like they're looking at the style they're looking at facts and events.

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<v Jaisa>And did that line up with the actual author?

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<v Jaisa>Yes.

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<v Jaisa>And the time that they were alive?

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>And that's how there should be these opinions.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa>And just theological principles, like a lot of things in first and second.

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<v Jaisa>Timothy and Titus actually contradict what Paul writes in other areas like so.

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<v Jaisa>You know, it's, it is really important to look at authorship and find out who's really writing these things.

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<v Jaisa>Absolutely.

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<v Jaisa>I think that that's, I, I did not know that.

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<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:12:08.797 --> 00:12:09.517
<v Jaisa>I didn't either until today.

00:12:09.752 --> 00:12:09.992
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:12:09.992 --> 00:12:11.252
<v Jaisa>So I think that that's wild.

00:12:11.252 --> 00:12:13.172
<v Jaisa>So bottom line, right?

00:12:13.172 --> 00:12:17.642
<v Jaisa>There are dozens of different Christianity and the Bible wasn't born yet, right?

00:12:17.652 --> 00:12:19.632
<v Jaisa>Dozens of Christian, not dozens.

00:12:20.142 --> 00:12:21.162
<v Jaisa>Endless, yeah.

00:12:21.162 --> 00:12:22.331
<v Jaisa>Christian writings.

00:12:22.362 --> 00:12:22.482
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:12:22.482 --> 00:12:22.902
<v Jaisa>Oh yeah.

00:12:22.902 --> 00:12:23.292
<v Jaisa>Endless.

00:12:23.292 --> 00:12:24.042
<v Jaisa>Yeah, exactly.

00:12:24.042 --> 00:12:24.402
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:12:24.807 --> 00:12:35.397
<v Jaisa>So this brings us to the next phase, which is persecution and power, the need for unity, which was a hundred to 3 25 ce.

00:12:35.576 --> 00:12:36.747
<v Jaisa>Do you wanna walk us through that?

00:12:36.897 --> 00:12:40.437
<v Jaisa>Yeah, so at this time, this is where we really start seeing schools of thought.

00:12:40.706 --> 00:12:45.357
<v Jaisa>Being different and being really divisive and passionate about their beliefs.

00:12:45.357 --> 00:12:51.987
<v Jaisa>And so the big one at the time was this idea you had a good chunk of the people who believed that Jesus is God, right?

00:12:52.167 --> 00:12:58.497
<v Jaisa>And then you had another chunk of people that said, well, I believe there's a God kind of all powerful, all knowing God.

00:12:58.692 --> 00:13:04.512
<v Jaisa>Who created Jesus and he's still divine, but I don't believe the two are like one in the same.

00:13:04.632 --> 00:13:05.022
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:13:05.027 --> 00:13:05.197
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:13:05.232 --> 00:13:08.442
<v Jaisa>So those are kind of the two main ones that are duking it out right now.

00:13:08.472 --> 00:13:08.772
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:13:08.772 --> 00:13:13.482
<v Jaisa>But you have like multiple people within the Christian Church arguing.

00:13:13.482 --> 00:13:16.692
<v Jaisa>You got people being persecuted for their Christian beliefs.

00:13:16.692 --> 00:13:18.372
<v Jaisa>I mean, it's just a hotbed Right.

00:13:18.402 --> 00:13:20.502
<v Jaisa>Of arguments and fighting.

00:13:20.757 --> 00:13:21.447
<v Jaisa>Going on.

00:13:21.676 --> 00:13:22.096
<v Rachael>And

00:13:22.497 --> 00:13:28.447
<v Jaisa>basically the empire was like, we gotta do something like this is mayhem out here in the streets.

00:13:28.687 --> 00:13:38.407
<v Jaisa>It's kind of where we first start seeing this idea of like, let's try and unify, let's try and come up with a central message in orthodoxy, if you will.

00:13:38.437 --> 00:13:38.677
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:13:38.677 --> 00:13:40.836
<v Jaisa>Of what the message of Christianity should be.

00:13:40.901 --> 00:13:41.230
<v Rachael>be.

00:13:41.407 --> 00:13:43.537
<v Jaisa>And so we start hearing rumblings of like.

00:13:43.912 --> 00:13:48.711
<v Jaisa>Which texts should be maybe believed, maybe ones that we don't like as much.

00:13:48.711 --> 00:13:54.052
<v Jaisa>And a lot of those have to do with upholding the hierarchy.

00:13:54.502 --> 00:14:01.961
<v Jaisa>They have to do with, reinforcing male authority and also really teaching obedience and unity.

00:14:02.696 --> 00:14:03.086
<v Rachael>And

00:14:03.162 --> 00:14:03.877
<v Jaisa>kind of where we start.

00:14:04.632 --> 00:14:10.662
<v Jaisa>Seeing that first play out, which is ironic'cause um, I would say like Jesus came to shake everything up.

00:14:10.722 --> 00:14:10.902
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:14:10.902 --> 00:14:11.622
<v Jaisa>And obedience.

00:14:11.622 --> 00:14:12.372
<v Jaisa>And uniformity.

00:14:12.372 --> 00:14:12.732
<v Jaisa>Yep.

00:14:12.871 --> 00:14:13.171
<v Rachael>You

00:14:13.302 --> 00:14:17.562
<v Jaisa>Uniformity in terms of we're all one, not uniformity and rules and regulations and obey.

00:14:17.951 --> 00:14:18.162
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:14:18.162 --> 00:14:18.612
<v Jaisa>You know?

00:14:18.612 --> 00:14:18.912
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:14:18.912 --> 00:14:19.092
<v Jaisa>And

00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:19.232
<v Rachael>this

00:14:19.392 --> 00:14:27.132
<v Jaisa>different, this is also where you start seeing like the first foundations of labeling certain beliefs in certain texts as heretical.

00:14:27.252 --> 00:14:27.852
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:14:27.951 --> 00:14:28.162
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:14:28.162 --> 00:14:29.572
<v Jaisa>So this reads us to phase four.

00:14:29.842 --> 00:14:33.831
<v Jaisa>So this is where we start to see shit really go sideways.

00:14:34.072 --> 00:14:34.282
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:14:34.282 --> 00:14:34.701
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:14:34.912 --> 00:14:42.122
<v Jaisa>Like this is, like, we've laid the foundation of how we've gotten to what actually started to happen within the church.

00:14:42.512 --> 00:14:46.922
<v Jaisa>And this is where it was more about political strategy mm-hmm.

00:14:46.956 --> 00:14:47.105
<v Rachael>mm-hmm.

00:14:47.192 --> 00:14:50.581
<v Jaisa>Than it was about like, Jesus.

00:14:50.581 --> 00:14:51.242
<v Jaisa>Jesus.

00:14:51.242 --> 00:14:51.662
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:14:51.662 --> 00:14:52.112
<v Jaisa>Thank you.

00:14:52.112 --> 00:14:53.252
<v Jaisa>Like, like case of point.

00:14:53.252 --> 00:14:56.942
<v Jaisa>So at the time the, the Roman Empire was deeply divided.

00:14:57.211 --> 00:14:59.132
<v Jaisa>You had four different emperors.

00:14:59.461 --> 00:15:01.412
<v Jaisa>That were vying for power.

00:15:01.532 --> 00:15:01.862
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:15:01.982 --> 00:15:02.581
<v Jaisa>Think about that.

00:15:02.852 --> 00:15:16.372
<v Jaisa>You have pagan religions that are fractured and unstable And then Christianity, although persecuted was rapidly growing, especially, and this is what I found really interesting among soldiers.

00:15:16.432 --> 00:15:16.581
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:15:16.822 --> 00:15:19.581
<v Jaisa>The poor and urban populations.

00:15:20.107 --> 00:15:25.507
<v Jaisa>What are you gonna do when all of a sudden your soldiers have a very different belief system than the emperor?

00:15:25.807 --> 00:15:28.807
<v Jaisa>And even each of these, as you're looking at, I mean they outnumber you.

00:15:29.167 --> 00:15:36.217
<v Jaisa>That's because they're saying, well, everything, soldiers, the poor and urban populations, I mean, those are the biggest masses probably at that time.

00:15:36.217 --> 00:15:36.607
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:15:36.607 --> 00:15:37.867
<v Jaisa>It's becoming a problem.

00:15:37.897 --> 00:15:38.107
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:15:38.167 --> 00:15:48.397
<v Jaisa>And it probably was very clear that, oh my gosh, there's this like groundswell of this belief happening in Constantines, in the emperor's kingdom.

00:15:48.802 --> 00:15:56.872
<v Jaisa>And like very quickly getting outnumbered despite the fact they were being targeted, killed and persecuted for being Christian, right?

00:15:56.877 --> 00:15:57.206
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:15:57.287 --> 00:16:00.262
<v Jaisa>Like this is an underground belief system at this point.

00:16:00.262 --> 00:16:00.322
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:16:00.352 --> 00:16:07.422
<v Jaisa>This is not publicly accepted, so I mean he was probably a smart man and being like, I need to do something right?

00:16:07.512 --> 00:16:07.932
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:16:08.046 --> 00:16:08.056
<v Rachael>Yeah.

00:16:08.201 --> 00:16:11.802
<v Jaisa>So Constantine saw Christianity as a way to unify his empire, right?

00:16:11.852 --> 00:16:12.182
<v Rachael>He

00:16:12.253 --> 00:16:14.263
<v Jaisa>epiphany like, okay, this doesn't have to be a threat.

00:16:14.263 --> 00:16:21.073
<v Jaisa>I can have this work in my favor to consolidate everything and have one moral and religious banner.

00:16:21.163 --> 00:16:21.313
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:16:21.331 --> 00:16:21.482
<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

00:16:21.643 --> 00:16:27.432
<v Jaisa>Under one particular religion and one school of thought with this religion and he didn't convert overnight.

00:16:27.493 --> 00:16:28.663
<v Jaisa>That's really important to know.

00:16:28.663 --> 00:16:28.723
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:16:28.753 --> 00:16:37.063
<v Jaisa>Constantine did not get baptized until shortly before his death in 3 37 ce so.

00:16:37.598 --> 00:16:43.238
<v Jaisa>In the time that he was ruling and it says three 12, he converts but didn't like really actually convert.

00:16:43.238 --> 00:16:43.328
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:16:43.358 --> 00:16:44.978
<v Jaisa>He's not wearing the I love Jesus.

00:16:45.008 --> 00:16:45.427
<v Jaisa>No.

00:16:45.427 --> 00:16:46.898
<v Jaisa>Or the ww jd.

00:16:46.927 --> 00:16:47.138
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:16:47.138 --> 00:16:48.698
<v Jaisa>He's not, he's not.

00:16:48.698 --> 00:16:50.108
<v Jaisa>He's, he's totally not.

00:16:50.557 --> 00:16:51.488
<v Jaisa>He still lived his life.

00:16:52.778 --> 00:17:01.748
<v Jaisa>So he continues to support Pagan temples for decades and retain the title of Ponte Fix Maximus, the high priest of Roman religion.

00:17:01.778 --> 00:17:02.948
<v Jaisa>Because if you recall like.

00:17:03.223 --> 00:17:06.883
<v Jaisa>Pagan gods were really like the ones that were worshiped within the Roman Empire.

00:17:06.883 --> 00:17:09.823
<v Jaisa>So he's continuing to kind of go down that path.

00:17:09.883 --> 00:17:10.063
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:17:10.123 --> 00:17:15.552
<v Jaisa>So his quote unquote conversion was more public alignment than personal discipleship, right?

00:17:15.552 --> 00:17:15.613
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:17:15.613 --> 00:17:19.722
<v Jaisa>'cause if you see like he doesn't actually convert until decades later, right?

00:17:19.722 --> 00:17:23.682
<v Jaisa>Like personally, he wasn't really embodying that, but eventually he does.

00:17:23.682 --> 00:17:30.403
<v Jaisa>So in essence, he was using Christianity more than actually personally being shaped by it.

00:17:30.462 --> 00:17:30.792
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:17:30.792 --> 00:17:32.472
<v Jaisa>So that's a really important thing to know.

00:17:33.248 --> 00:17:41.137
<v Jaisa>So then Constantine issues the edict of Milan, which was granting religious tolerance to Christians.

00:17:41.347 --> 00:17:47.077
<v Jaisa>Okay, so three 16 he says that, okay, you don't have to live in the shadows anymore.

00:17:47.528 --> 00:17:52.188
<v Jaisa>You can now believe openly.

00:17:52.548 --> 00:17:56.597
<v Jaisa>And he even goes so far as to return confiscated church property.

00:17:56.867 --> 00:17:57.018
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:17:57.258 --> 00:17:57.768
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:17:58.067 --> 00:17:58.817
<v Jaisa>Which is huge.

00:17:58.817 --> 00:18:05.597
<v Jaisa>I mean, it was huge that if you're living in a time when you're terrified of your life and they finally say okay, we're gonna move forward.

00:18:05.807 --> 00:18:07.278
<v Jaisa>You can come out of closet no longer.

00:18:07.278 --> 00:18:09.917
<v Jaisa>Yes, you can come out of your Christian closet.

00:18:10.097 --> 00:18:13.607
<v Jaisa>I mean, I understand like the irony of me using an analogy around like, you know.

00:18:13.952 --> 00:18:16.952
<v Jaisa>Somebody who's gay coming outta the closet, but I feel like it's appropriate here.

00:18:16.982 --> 00:18:17.792
<v Jaisa>Yes, I do too.

00:18:18.002 --> 00:18:18.182
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:18:18.182 --> 00:18:18.782
<v Jaisa>We're just going with it.

00:18:18.782 --> 00:18:19.383
<v Jaisa>We love the gays.

00:18:19.413 --> 00:18:20.042
<v Jaisa>Oh, we love the gays.

00:18:20.073 --> 00:18:25.923
<v Jaisa>Okay, so this added century to persecution, like I said, and it just catapults Christianity from.

00:18:26.327 --> 00:18:32.327
<v Jaisa>Underground to the state sponsored religion and everything really starts to change.

00:18:32.388 --> 00:18:32.478
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:18:32.542 --> 00:18:32.692
<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

00:18:32.778 --> 00:18:45.018
<v Jaisa>So, and the reason why it's changed is'cause Constantine didn't just join Christianity or say it's okay for you to believe openly without us murdering you.

00:18:45.317 --> 00:18:46.337
<v Jaisa>He started to shape it.

00:18:46.668 --> 00:18:47.298
<v Jaisa>Yep.

00:18:47.508 --> 00:18:55.638
<v Jaisa>So this pay attention guys, this is where our, the history lesson, the textbooks start coming into play.

00:18:55.758 --> 00:18:59.628
<v Jaisa>All right, so, um, Constantine convened the Council of Nase

00:18:59.672 --> 00:18:59.792
<v Rachael>Niah.

00:19:00.378 --> 00:19:04.067
<v Jaisa>in 3 25 CE to resolve theological disputes.

00:19:04.097 --> 00:19:09.597
<v Jaisa>And this is what you were saying before, there's two kind of major schools of thought and probably even like.

00:19:09.863 --> 00:19:10.702
<v Jaisa>More than that.

00:19:10.702 --> 00:19:10.763
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:19:10.862 --> 00:19:11.162
<v Rachael>Yeah.

00:19:11.333 --> 00:19:18.413
<v Jaisa>the majority were debating with the divinity of Jesus being like one of God, like God came to earth as Jesus.

00:19:18.442 --> 00:19:18.623
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:19:18.893 --> 00:19:23.113
<v Jaisa>Or Jesus being Divine in nature, but not God incarnate.

00:19:23.113 --> 00:19:23.353
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:19:23.353 --> 00:19:23.653
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:19:23.653 --> 00:19:27.763
<v Jaisa>So like And the Son of God and the Son of God, but created by God, not God himself.

00:19:27.793 --> 00:19:28.242
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:19:28.242 --> 00:19:28.452
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:19:28.513 --> 00:19:29.503
<v Jaisa>Important distinction.

00:19:30.063 --> 00:19:33.303
<v Jaisa>So Arianism and like I struggled with this word.

00:19:33.303 --> 00:19:35.253
<v Jaisa>I thought it was like Hitler Arianism.

00:19:35.253 --> 00:19:35.468
<v Jaisa>I know, I know.

00:19:35.472 --> 00:19:43.023
<v Jaisa>So I did a double take, but it wasn't, was a major theological movement in the Christian Roman Empire during the fourth and fifth century ce.

00:19:43.482 --> 00:19:44.413
<v Jaisa>Think of it like this.

00:19:44.863 --> 00:19:50.023
<v Jaisa>God the father equals eternal, all powerful uncreated.

00:19:50.232 --> 00:19:50.383
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:19:51.013 --> 00:19:58.363
<v Jaisa>Has been always will be Jesus the Son, created by God, not as powerful, not eternal.

00:19:59.307 --> 00:19:59.758
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:20:00.057 --> 00:20:11.488
<v Jaisa>Arians believed Jesus was super important, even divine, but still less than God, like a divine helper, but not God himself, as we noted.

00:20:11.548 --> 00:20:12.057
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:20:12.087 --> 00:20:12.117
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:20:12.396 --> 00:20:18.247
<v Jaisa>The conflict between Arianism and standard Trinitarian belief.

00:20:19.461 --> 00:20:23.011
<v Jaisa>Was the first major doctrinal battle in the Christian Church.

00:20:23.162 --> 00:20:23.642
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:20:23.912 --> 00:20:26.582
<v Jaisa>This, so after being Christian was legalized.

00:20:26.582 --> 00:20:26.672
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:20:26.912 --> 00:20:29.701
<v Jaisa>And you could do this, there's still like a major dispute like that.

00:20:29.701 --> 00:20:31.082
<v Jaisa>This is like what's really important to know.

00:20:31.892 --> 00:20:32.102
<v Rachael>Okay.

00:20:32.132 --> 00:20:32.162
<v Rachael>Arianism

00:20:32.198 --> 00:20:40.753
<v Jaisa>Arianism was condemned at the First Council of Macia in 3 25 and class as heresy, but it

00:20:40.817 --> 00:20:41.027
<v Rachael>But

00:20:41.143 --> 00:20:43.543
<v Jaisa>still followed by many people.

00:20:43.888 --> 00:20:45.388
<v Jaisa>In early medieval times.

00:20:45.418 --> 00:20:45.807
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:20:45.867 --> 00:20:46.077
<v Jaisa>Okay.

00:20:46.077 --> 00:20:46.857
<v Jaisa>What you think about that?

00:20:46.857 --> 00:20:49.228
<v Jaisa>How long that continued to go?

00:20:49.317 --> 00:20:49.918
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:20:49.948 --> 00:20:50.097
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:20:50.097 --> 00:20:51.748
<v Jaisa>And like I think that that's wild, right?

00:20:51.748 --> 00:20:53.788
<v Jaisa>Like you have these two different schools of thought.

00:20:53.908 --> 00:20:56.788
<v Jaisa>They have this council of a select privileged view.

00:20:56.817 --> 00:20:56.908
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:20:57.148 --> 00:21:02.968
<v Jaisa>All the men that say, okay, there's a groundswell of this over here and a groundswell of this belief system over here.

00:21:03.218 --> 00:21:07.448
<v Jaisa>We're gonna prioritize one, we're gonna say you could be put to death.

00:21:07.628 --> 00:21:07.988
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:21:08.073 --> 00:21:08.813
<v Jaisa>By believing.

00:21:09.337 --> 00:21:12.908
<v Jaisa>What you've always believed for what, like hundreds of years at this point.

00:21:12.968 --> 00:21:22.327
<v Jaisa>And keep in mind, the council that was putting that together was led by Constantine himself, who we know was using Christianity as a political strategy for his own.

00:21:23.018 --> 00:21:23.617
<v Jaisa>Purpose.

00:21:23.678 --> 00:21:24.337
<v Jaisa>Bingo.

00:21:24.398 --> 00:21:24.607
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:21:24.968 --> 00:21:29.768
<v Jaisa>So out of this council, Constantine funded the construction of churches.

00:21:29.768 --> 00:21:31.298
<v Jaisa>So for example, old St.

00:21:31.298 --> 00:21:32.557
<v Jaisa>Peter's Basilica.

00:21:32.648 --> 00:21:32.738
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:21:32.978 --> 00:21:41.038
<v Jaisa>Was a result of this council and the whole point was to promote the idea of not just one faith in one God, but one emperor.

00:21:41.097 --> 00:21:44.307
<v Jaisa>And this is where it served Constantine in his political.

00:21:44.803 --> 00:21:45.403
<v Jaisa>Drivers.

00:21:45.462 --> 00:21:46.003
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:21:46.452 --> 00:21:53.173
<v Jaisa>So what happened with all of this, once Christianity was tied to the empire, diversity was no longer tolerable.

00:21:53.533 --> 00:21:54.313
<v Jaisa>Big problem.

00:21:54.553 --> 00:22:01.632
<v Jaisa>'cause all of a sudden if you could have multiple different, Interpretation of Jesus, they could have multiple ideas of who should be the emperor.

00:22:01.692 --> 00:22:02.951
<v Jaisa>Yeah, you guys, big problem.

00:22:03.011 --> 00:22:06.582
<v Jaisa>If you went to church growing up, then this council Ofia is where they formed the

00:22:06.691 --> 00:22:06.780
<v Rachael>the

00:22:06.942 --> 00:22:07.422
<v Jaisa>ENE creed.

00:22:07.437 --> 00:22:07.527
<v Jaisa>Which

00:22:07.831 --> 00:22:08.250
<v Rachael>and so,

00:22:08.277 --> 00:22:09.027
<v Jaisa>didn't know.

00:22:09.086 --> 00:22:22.407
<v Jaisa>So this is where they form basically their mission statement, right, of what Christianity is and anything that doesn't line up with this belief of the Trinity of this and X, Y, Z, you can read the nice and creed yourself.

00:22:22.407 --> 00:22:26.727
<v Jaisa>Anything that doesn't flow into that is considered.

00:22:26.981 --> 00:22:28.751
<v Jaisa>Heretical and is banned.

00:22:28.902 --> 00:22:29.862
<v Jaisa>You're gonna go bye-bye.

00:22:29.922 --> 00:22:30.192
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:22:30.221 --> 00:22:31.182
<v Jaisa>Is what that tells me.

00:22:31.271 --> 00:22:41.862
<v Jaisa>And the distinction too, as we've noted in the Gnostic Gospels versus some of the ones that were selected, is all of a sudden there's this very big emphasis on salvation outside of yourself, right?

00:22:41.862 --> 00:22:51.042
<v Jaisa>That we look to God the redeemer, that we look to the church, that we have sin and we're humanly flawed, and now we need to be forgiven of those sins.

00:22:51.042 --> 00:22:52.332
<v Jaisa>And this is how we do it.

00:22:52.351 --> 00:22:52.681
<v Rachael>it.

00:22:53.096 --> 00:22:57.687
<v Jaisa>And that's an important thing to note too, really important because fear mm-hmm.

00:22:58.227 --> 00:23:01.797
<v Jaisa>Will drive, order, obedience and reinforce the hierarchy.

00:23:01.826 --> 00:23:02.217
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:23:02.277 --> 00:23:03.567
<v Jaisa>And look to us Yes.

00:23:03.567 --> 00:23:04.437
<v Jaisa>Not inner knowing.

00:23:04.451 --> 00:23:04.672
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:23:04.672 --> 00:23:04.792
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:23:04.797 --> 00:23:04.917
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:23:04.917 --> 00:23:06.507
<v Jaisa>So it's very much like the church.

00:23:06.507 --> 00:23:07.917
<v Jaisa>Church is the authority.

00:23:07.917 --> 00:23:08.336
<v Jaisa>Yep.

00:23:08.576 --> 00:23:12.116
<v Jaisa>We don't believe in the gnostics because that's all about inner God within us.

00:23:12.116 --> 00:23:14.427
<v Jaisa>Inner knowing, experiential.

00:23:15.027 --> 00:23:15.836
<v Jaisa>That's out the window.

00:23:15.836 --> 00:23:17.997
<v Jaisa>That's not real, that's fake.

00:23:18.356 --> 00:23:19.947
<v Jaisa>This is the real Christianity.

00:23:21.042 --> 00:23:27.132
<v Jaisa>I challenge everybody to think and reflect on that because that's really important to know because this.

00:23:27.747 --> 00:23:38.562
<v Jaisa>These actions, these historical events are what laid, the foundation and the framework for what the Bible would become over the next 50 to 75 years.

00:23:38.741 --> 00:23:40.662
<v Jaisa>The Bible hasn't even created yet, you guys.

00:23:40.662 --> 00:23:40.721
<v Jaisa>No.

00:23:40.816 --> 00:23:40.875
<v Rachael>No.

00:23:41.052 --> 00:23:45.221
<v Jaisa>They are already saying, right, wrong this way, not that way.

00:23:45.221 --> 00:23:46.451
<v Jaisa>Life, death.

00:23:46.767 --> 00:23:55.237
<v Jaisa>And they're being very methodical and saying this is the only way, and this is even before the Bible was even created like this way of leading Yeah.

00:23:55.297 --> 00:23:57.277
<v Jaisa>Is being implemented and followed.

00:23:57.336 --> 00:23:57.606
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:23:57.606 --> 00:24:01.447
<v Jaisa>They use that ene creed then as like the litmus test.

00:24:01.657 --> 00:24:04.836
<v Jaisa>Does this book support this creed that we've created?

00:24:04.836 --> 00:24:05.917
<v Jaisa>This mission statement?

00:24:06.067 --> 00:24:07.626
<v Jaisa>If it doesn't, it doesn't fit.

00:24:07.717 --> 00:24:08.376
<v Jaisa>Oh my gosh.

00:24:08.557 --> 00:24:10.477
<v Jaisa>So like sort of masterful.

00:24:10.477 --> 00:24:10.567
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:24:10.657 --> 00:24:12.457
<v Jaisa>On Constantine's part like.

00:24:12.832 --> 00:24:16.582
<v Jaisa>He saw what would be a total threat to his power.

00:24:16.642 --> 00:24:16.942
<v Jaisa>Yep.

00:24:16.942 --> 00:24:26.362
<v Jaisa>Soldiers were starting to convert the, you know, the masses are starting, the masses to convert because honestly, who got recruited into battle, typically people that like were just normal, regular people.

00:24:26.362 --> 00:24:28.461
<v Jaisa>Like, okay, you're fighting my wars now.

00:24:28.461 --> 00:24:34.552
<v Jaisa>All of a sudden, like if people are really deep in their religious beliefs and they're, they're not gonna fight.

00:24:34.552 --> 00:24:34.612
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:24:34.672 --> 00:24:36.442
<v Jaisa>They're gonna, they're gonna fight against it.

00:24:36.447 --> 00:24:36.652
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:24:36.652 --> 00:24:37.102
<v Jaisa>So he.

00:24:37.807 --> 00:24:44.477
<v Jaisa>Really said, let me turn this threat and use it in my favor, but first I have to dramatically change it, to unify it.

00:24:44.511 --> 00:24:45.971
<v Jaisa>In order to have it work for me.

00:24:45.977 --> 00:24:46.812
<v Jaisa>Right, right.

00:24:46.812 --> 00:24:48.342
<v Jaisa>Like that's literally what happened.

00:24:48.402 --> 00:24:48.672
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:24:48.701 --> 00:24:58.542
<v Jaisa>So this now brings us to 360 7 to 400 ce, which is when the final canon or the final Bible was developed and endorsed.

00:24:58.542 --> 00:25:02.322
<v Jaisa>And this was in essence control through scripture.

00:25:02.471 --> 00:25:02.771
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:25:03.177 --> 00:25:04.707
<v Jaisa>Were you en en us through a little, little bit of this.

00:25:04.707 --> 00:25:05.037
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:25:05.037 --> 00:25:09.027
<v Jaisa>So it was finalized again, they take this nice reed that they established.

00:25:09.146 --> 00:25:09.356
<v Jaisa>Yep.

00:25:09.477 --> 00:25:13.497
<v Jaisa>And then they start going through, as we said, there were just endless amounts of texts at that time.

00:25:13.797 --> 00:25:20.257
<v Jaisa>And so really it was about protecting the authority, suppressing any type of mystical interpretations.

00:25:20.287 --> 00:25:20.376
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:25:20.376 --> 00:25:22.507
<v Jaisa>Or like thrown out the window as we said.

00:25:22.567 --> 00:25:22.717
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:25:22.717 --> 00:25:24.907
<v Jaisa>And it had to align with Roman structure.

00:25:24.997 --> 00:25:25.386
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:25:25.386 --> 00:25:33.487
<v Jaisa>So these gnostic gospels like Thomas, Mary, and Philip were declared her heretical and were ordered to be destroyed or burned.

00:25:34.807 --> 00:25:46.237
<v Jaisa>And if you go back to our last episode, we talk all about what these gnostic texts were, what they really embodied, and it makes so much more sense now with these certain things happening.

00:25:46.267 --> 00:25:46.356
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:25:46.596 --> 00:25:47.947
<v Jaisa>With Constantine, the Roman Empire.

00:25:47.966 --> 00:25:48.865
<v Rachael>Empire,

00:25:49.057 --> 00:25:53.737
<v Jaisa>The division amongst Christian belief systems Yeah.

00:25:53.856 --> 00:25:55.207
<v Jaisa>Of why

00:25:55.411 --> 00:25:56.010
<v Rachael>these

00:25:56.197 --> 00:25:57.846
<v Jaisa>texts became so problematic.

00:25:57.852 --> 00:25:57.902
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:25:57.907 --> 00:25:58.146
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:25:58.146 --> 00:25:59.856
<v Jaisa>And were ordered to be destroyed.

00:26:00.106 --> 00:26:03.407
<v Jaisa>And not because they were false, just because they contradicted Right.

00:26:03.407 --> 00:26:05.836
<v Jaisa>Like it was a threat to what was now being developed.

00:26:05.917 --> 00:26:07.866
<v Jaisa>Yeah, I think I just wanna expand on that, Jason.

00:26:07.866 --> 00:26:07.987
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:26:07.987 --> 00:26:11.257
<v Jaisa>Like you and I are not trying to say that what's included in the Bible is not true.

00:26:11.376 --> 00:26:11.616
<v Jaisa>No.

00:26:11.616 --> 00:26:14.047
<v Jaisa>And that it's not legitimate and it's not beautiful.

00:26:14.076 --> 00:26:18.997
<v Jaisa>It's just that we have to also take into account that this is why those specific books were selected.

00:26:19.757 --> 00:26:20.477
<v Jaisa>That's exactly right.

00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:20.780
<v Rachael>right.

00:26:21.207 --> 00:26:24.771
<v Jaisa>Like, we're not saying that the Bible is wrong Right.

00:26:25.081 --> 00:26:25.321
<v Rachael>Right.

00:26:26.157 --> 00:26:30.866
<v Jaisa>But we are saying that it was shaped, and one might even say edited mm-hmm.

00:26:31.171 --> 00:26:31.921
<v Rachael>To

00:26:32.457 --> 00:26:34.292
<v Jaisa>the political climate.

00:26:34.917 --> 00:26:41.047
<v Jaisa>And, and the goals of a Roman empire, and a Roman emperor in that time.

00:26:41.136 --> 00:26:41.677
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:26:41.797 --> 00:26:41.856
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:26:41.917 --> 00:26:53.287
<v Jaisa>And it now makes so much more sense why feminist point of view around text, um, gnostic of inner knowing, not having to go to the church is very disruptive and threatening.

00:26:53.292 --> 00:26:53.372
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:26:53.586 --> 00:27:00.907
<v Jaisa>And hence why they became heretical and hence why they were like ordered to be burned, destroyed, hidden.

00:27:01.896 --> 00:27:07.267
<v Jaisa>But there were some renegade monks that said, fuck that we're gonna hide this stuff.

00:27:07.267 --> 00:27:08.947
<v Jaisa>And I was like laughing with Rachel.

00:27:08.947 --> 00:27:11.177
<v Jaisa>Like I just had this image of these monks like

00:27:11.196 --> 00:27:11.375
<v Rachael>like

00:27:11.537 --> 00:27:18.227
<v Jaisa>running through these fields and quickly bury them as churches were being burned to the ground because like that's an essence.

00:27:18.227 --> 00:27:19.876
<v Jaisa>They were risking their life.

00:27:19.907 --> 00:27:21.557
<v Jaisa>I know they love that to preserve these.

00:27:21.557 --> 00:27:21.917
<v Jaisa>I know.

00:27:21.917 --> 00:27:24.527
<v Jaisa>And that makes me emotional because they're so beautiful.

00:27:24.527 --> 00:27:25.487
<v Jaisa>They're so important.

00:27:26.221 --> 00:27:31.771
<v Jaisa>They round out so much of what we know of the Bible today, that without them we would've never known.

00:27:31.862 --> 00:27:33.062
<v Jaisa>Yeah, we would've never known.

00:27:33.451 --> 00:27:38.792
<v Jaisa>So that really kind of leads us to this last phase of, um, what was buried and what was found again.

00:27:39.332 --> 00:27:45.832
<v Jaisa>So over the next thousand years, the gnostic attacks, like I said, were banned, burned, or buried and.

00:27:46.461 --> 00:27:51.082
<v Jaisa>These monks that hid these 52 texts and we had like the Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:27:51.112 --> 00:27:51.201
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:27:51.442 --> 00:28:06.771
<v Jaisa>There was the Gospel of Mary that was found about 50 years before the naati text, but basically in essence what was hidden and recently like not too distant past, was the Gospel of Mary, which we talked about a story of spiritual leadership and feminine wisdom.

00:28:07.417 --> 00:28:27.096
<v Jaisa>The Gospel of Thomas, a collection of sayings from Jesus about inner knowing, not the hierarchy from the church, the gospel of Philip suggesting a deep partnership between Jesus and Mary Magdalene also problematic because it chipped away at what we thought about, like males are the only ones that are able to lead in church.

00:28:27.247 --> 00:28:30.277
<v Jaisa>Women need to stay silent and learn quietly.

00:28:30.277 --> 00:28:30.576
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:28:30.576 --> 00:28:33.457
<v Jaisa>Like not even learn like were they even allowed to learn, right?

00:28:33.457 --> 00:28:33.458
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:28:33.462 --> 00:28:34.836
<v Jaisa>Like all of these different things.

00:28:35.407 --> 00:28:47.856
<v Jaisa>And this mystical teaching from John, which is a, like a vision that he got from Christ supposedly that really even challenged the beginning, um, of our earth and what we knew of it.

00:28:47.856 --> 00:28:48.787
<v Jaisa>Through Genesis.

00:28:48.787 --> 00:28:49.027
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:28:49.027 --> 00:28:51.126
<v Jaisa>Like literally flipping everything on its head.

00:28:51.217 --> 00:28:51.457
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:28:51.517 --> 00:28:54.007
<v Jaisa>So we can see now that.

00:28:54.412 --> 00:29:07.052
<v Jaisa>What was silenced first centuries like why that was bare, like thank God some of it was preserved and like scholars believe that like 80 to 90% of what existed was destroyed, which like breaks my heart.

00:29:07.052 --> 00:29:07.382
<v Jaisa>That's so sad.

00:29:07.385 --> 00:29:07.865
<v Rachael>sad,

00:29:07.892 --> 00:29:09.277
<v Jaisa>like just enough.

00:29:09.371 --> 00:29:09.721
<v Rachael>enough.

00:29:09.757 --> 00:29:09.997
<v Jaisa>I know.

00:29:10.146 --> 00:29:17.582
<v Jaisa>Just enough was preserved to, I don't know, reveal to modern Christians and who we are today.

00:29:18.451 --> 00:29:28.021
<v Jaisa>To reevaluate, like what we've always been taught to be the single only immaculate truth from God of what we know of the Bible today.

00:29:28.362 --> 00:29:31.422
<v Jaisa>So we've, we've closed out these different phases.

00:29:31.782 --> 00:29:34.812
<v Jaisa>And I've been thinking a lot about like what this means.

00:29:34.812 --> 00:29:34.872
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:29:34.902 --> 00:29:38.231
<v Jaisa>Because as a Christian, the Bible has been my only source of truth.

00:29:38.501 --> 00:29:38.592
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:29:38.832 --> 00:29:39.761
<v Jaisa>For 40 years.

00:29:39.971 --> 00:29:40.182
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:29:40.241 --> 00:29:48.672
<v Jaisa>And just because of spirit, outspoken and, and like we've said this a hundred times, we are not theologians, we are not philosophers, we are not priests.

00:29:49.017 --> 00:29:56.157
<v Jaisa>Pastors, any of that, we are two normal women on a journey of faith that are just seeking truth.

00:29:56.217 --> 00:29:56.727
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:29:56.727 --> 00:29:56.728
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:29:56.817 --> 00:29:56.997
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:29:57.027 --> 00:30:02.606
<v Jaisa>So as part of that, so much self-reflection goes into a lot of these episodes around spirit outspoken.

00:30:02.967 --> 00:30:12.507
<v Jaisa>And although this gives me more questions than answers, it has prompted a lot of thought and like, what do I personally think about this?

00:30:13.346 --> 00:30:15.567
<v Jaisa>It makes me think of an analogy around like.

00:30:15.942 --> 00:30:28.392
<v Jaisa>Okay, so in 2025, you think about like two very divisive schools of thoughts similar to like, was Jesus God or was Jesus not God, but very important and divine.

00:30:28.542 --> 00:30:30.822
<v Jaisa>Those are pretty different, different thoughts, right?

00:30:30.822 --> 00:30:30.971
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:30:31.451 --> 00:30:35.652
<v Jaisa>It made me think of like the Republican party and the Democratic party.

00:30:35.682 --> 00:30:37.182
<v Jaisa>Conservative versus liberal.

00:30:37.241 --> 00:30:37.481
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:30:37.542 --> 00:30:42.402
<v Jaisa>I think most would agree that for as long as we've been alive, millennials.

00:30:42.761 --> 00:30:43.692
<v Jaisa>Or whatever.

00:30:43.721 --> 00:30:45.822
<v Jaisa>It's never been more divisive than it is today.

00:30:45.882 --> 00:30:46.392
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:30:46.481 --> 00:31:00.912
<v Jaisa>If somebody in 2025 were to write a book on belief systems, schools of thought, what's right, what's wrong, and took it from either one of those perspectives, it would be very focused and

00:31:01.135 --> 00:31:01.736
<v Rachael>very

00:31:02.442 --> 00:31:07.782
<v Jaisa>of representative of the entire population and diverse opinions on either side.

00:31:07.902 --> 00:31:08.201
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:31:08.201 --> 00:31:10.211
<v Jaisa>If somebody said, I am going to write.

00:31:10.527 --> 00:31:16.527
<v Jaisa>How people should live their life and how laws should be made and how policy should be enforced.

00:31:16.616 --> 00:31:19.437
<v Jaisa>And I took it from the Republican point of view.

00:31:19.497 --> 00:31:25.616
<v Jaisa>There would be certain themes that would be consistent throughout that, that would be representative of schools of thought today.

00:31:25.646 --> 00:31:28.437
<v Jaisa>And if I did the same with liberal point of view, yeah.

00:31:28.437 --> 00:31:30.657
<v Jaisa>And I wrote down, this is how we should be living our life.

00:31:30.657 --> 00:31:32.967
<v Jaisa>These are the types of policies, this is how it should go,

00:31:33.196 --> 00:31:33.436
<v Rachael>go,

00:31:33.447 --> 00:31:34.376
<v Jaisa>go, go down.

00:31:34.557 --> 00:31:36.146
<v Jaisa>This is what is right and wrong.

00:31:36.537 --> 00:31:43.557
<v Jaisa>Very incomplete from what 50% of our population would say, at least in the United States.

00:31:43.557 --> 00:31:46.917
<v Jaisa>I mean, think about it, the election was literally 50 50, right?

00:31:46.917 --> 00:31:46.977
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:31:46.977 --> 00:31:47.277
<v Jaisa>Like,

00:31:47.446 --> 00:31:47.447
<v Rachael>Like,

00:31:47.547 --> 00:31:53.876
<v Jaisa>I mean, in essence, I know it like wasn't obviously 50 50, but in essence we are split as a nation

00:31:54.046 --> 00:31:54.135
<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

00:31:54.447 --> 00:31:59.187
<v Jaisa>and we see this like play out within the development of the Bible.

00:31:59.336 --> 00:32:03.687
<v Jaisa>So I started to think like, oh my gosh, if we wrote this today.

00:32:04.557 --> 00:32:09.267
<v Jaisa>And we left out either one of those perspectives, which we saw exactly from the Bible.

00:32:09.267 --> 00:32:19.257
<v Jaisa>If we write the Bible and we leave out this entire gnostic category of texts, which embody inner knowing.

00:32:19.737 --> 00:32:21.896
<v Jaisa>Inner knowledge the kingdom is within.

00:32:21.927 --> 00:32:25.076
<v Jaisa>You can go direct to Christ, you could go direct to God.

00:32:25.106 --> 00:32:26.817
<v Jaisa>I don't have to go through a church.

00:32:26.997 --> 00:32:28.616
<v Jaisa>Women are exalted.

00:32:28.677 --> 00:32:30.356
<v Jaisa>Women have leadership roles.

00:32:30.356 --> 00:32:42.477
<v Jaisa>Women have a voice and a very strong perspective so far as to say that a woman was Jesus's partner and the earliest of ministries, Mary Magdalene, the apostle of Apostles.

00:32:42.477 --> 00:32:42.567
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:32:42.836 --> 00:32:44.307
<v Jaisa>Has something to say.

00:32:44.506 --> 00:32:44.596
<v Rachael>Right.

00:32:44.606 --> 00:32:45.146
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:32:46.062 --> 00:32:47.322
<v Jaisa>It feels the same.

00:32:47.322 --> 00:32:48.792
<v Jaisa>It's like, it's just incomplete.

00:32:48.792 --> 00:32:59.142
<v Jaisa>And I'm not saying either party is wrong, and I'm not saying either, you know, Christ being God himself or Christ, just being a divine person, son of God is right or wrong.

00:32:59.142 --> 00:33:07.961
<v Jaisa>Like I, I've had a lot of thought and contemplation on that topic, but it would be safe to say, at least in my personal opinion, that at best it's incomplete.

00:33:08.292 --> 00:33:10.092
<v Jaisa>Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:10.182 --> 00:33:11.201
<v Jaisa>That's so well said.

00:33:11.231 --> 00:33:15.042
<v Jaisa>You know, and like we just have one perspective to go off of, not.

00:33:15.491 --> 00:33:20.981
<v Jaisa>Like, think about it, the Bible included the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip.

00:33:21.192 --> 00:33:29.711
<v Jaisa>This mystical interpretation from John that lends more mythology or perspectives in terms of like, it's not just about Adam and Eve.

00:33:29.711 --> 00:33:33.792
<v Jaisa>There's some other trains of thought here, and it wasn't either or.

00:33:34.001 --> 00:33:34.122
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:33:34.152 --> 00:33:38.442
<v Jaisa>And people could make their own interpretations from what intrinsically felt, right?

00:33:39.162 --> 00:33:39.402
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:33:39.432 --> 00:33:40.872
<v Jaisa>Based on historical text.

00:33:40.872 --> 00:33:42.491
<v Jaisa>I wonder how things would be different today.

00:33:42.792 --> 00:33:43.092
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:33:44.412 --> 00:34:04.572
<v Jaisa>Yeah, you guys, you know that book that we talked about in our last episode, the New New Testament, if you're at all interested, that's what they've done is they've taken some of these gnostic texts, these early Christian texts, and they've inserted them alongside the existing gospels to kind of round it out in a way that they feel, just to add some vibrancy and some clarity and some additional insight.

00:34:04.572 --> 00:34:09.311
<v Jaisa>So if you're at all interested in just seeing how that would look and how that would play out, and how that would play out.

00:34:09.536 --> 00:34:09.956
<v Rachael>it's

00:34:10.286 --> 00:34:10.436
<v Jaisa>I,

00:34:10.525 --> 00:34:10.675
<v Rachael>I,

00:34:10.731 --> 00:34:13.016
<v Jaisa>I, that's on my book list to check out.

00:34:13.047 --> 00:34:17.096
<v Jaisa>'cause I think it would be interesting, I mean, like, what, how do you think people are gonna respond to this?

00:34:18.047 --> 00:34:19.846
<v Jaisa>I think it's gonna be a mix.

00:34:19.846 --> 00:34:22.126
<v Jaisa>I think part of it depends on the person.

00:34:22.636 --> 00:34:25.757
<v Jaisa>You know, I think people are, are frightened.

00:34:25.846 --> 00:34:28.936
<v Jaisa>Um, this book is important.

00:34:28.987 --> 00:34:30.516
<v Jaisa>This book is, is crucial.

00:34:30.516 --> 00:34:34.717
<v Jaisa>It's what so many people have literally based and built their life upon.

00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:35.050
<v Rachael>And

00:34:35.346 --> 00:34:36.186
<v Jaisa>And so.

00:34:36.891 --> 00:34:46.822
<v Jaisa>I think when we start saying things that could potentially, and it's not discrediting it, it's just saying, like you said, it's, it's incomplete.

00:34:47.271 --> 00:34:50.032
<v Jaisa>Um, I think it depends on your view of the Bible.

00:34:50.032 --> 00:34:56.961
<v Jaisa>You know, some people take a very literal approach as like the Bible is immaculate, it is perfect, it is God breathed.

00:34:56.961 --> 00:34:57.382
<v Jaisa>There is.

00:34:57.445 --> 00:34:57.775
<v Rachael>is.

00:34:58.027 --> 00:35:01.746
<v Jaisa>Nothing wrong with it because you know, that's what I was taught.

00:35:01.746 --> 00:35:02.226
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:35:02.226 --> 00:35:03.186
<v Jaisa>And a lot of people do.

00:35:03.427 --> 00:35:09.036
<v Jaisa>Or do you take more of a contextual, historical view of the Bible and that's how you were raised.

00:35:09.041 --> 00:35:09.282
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:35:09.282 --> 00:35:10.416
<v Jaisa>And that's how I was raised.

00:35:10.476 --> 00:35:10.536
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:35:10.536 --> 00:35:15.677
<v Jaisa>So I think if you've been taught that perspective, I don't think this would be earth shattering.

00:35:16.007 --> 00:35:22.277
<v Jaisa>But if you are a person who believed that this is the end all, be all, and that there are no errors within it.

00:35:22.335 --> 00:35:22.576
<v Rachael>it,

00:35:22.907 --> 00:35:25.907
<v Jaisa>That's a pretty big, you know?

00:35:25.967 --> 00:35:26.297
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:35:26.302 --> 00:35:34.806
<v Jaisa>And I, yeah, and I thought a lot about that too, why do people get so activated when we ask these questions?

00:35:34.866 --> 00:35:34.956
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:35:35.196 --> 00:35:39.846
<v Jaisa>We ask, is there a possible alternative interpretation to what we've always known?

00:35:40.536 --> 00:35:50.076
<v Jaisa>And I really think that when people build their faith on what they've been told and taught.

00:35:50.422 --> 00:35:56.501
<v Jaisa>And, literal interpretation, it feels really threatening to ask questions.

00:35:57.341 --> 00:36:07.411
<v Jaisa>But for me personally, I remember I've talked about this, I think on a prior episode, I remember having this conversation with my mom where I was sitting at the bar in the kitchen.

00:36:07.652 --> 00:36:09.126
<v Jaisa>We were talking about something.

00:36:10.321 --> 00:36:12.121
<v Jaisa>I think I was like questioning the Bible or something.

00:36:12.172 --> 00:36:17.481
<v Jaisa>I remember saying to my mom, I don't believe in Jesus because the Bible tells me to.

00:36:17.721 --> 00:36:26.951
<v Jaisa>I believe in Jesus because of how I feel when I pray, and the, the prayers that he's answered for me.

00:36:27.031 --> 00:36:35.251
<v Jaisa>I can count on probably one hand very specific moments where I've gotten down on my knees and I have just.

00:36:35.281 --> 00:36:40.291
<v Jaisa>Uh, prayed tearfully to Jesus, like, help me with this.

00:36:40.781 --> 00:36:43.152
<v Jaisa>Please be there for me for that.

00:36:43.211 --> 00:36:44.111
<v Jaisa>Just what, whatever.

00:36:44.111 --> 00:36:53.291
<v Jaisa>I mean, that's probably a whole nother episode, but like very specific moments and every single time Jesus answered my prayer, maybe not in the exact way that I was expecting him to.

00:36:53.711 --> 00:36:53.801
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:36:54.041 --> 00:36:55.451
<v Jaisa>Maybe not in the exact timeframe.

00:36:55.797 --> 00:36:57.956
<v Jaisa>That was ideal for me, but he always did.

00:36:58.196 --> 00:37:03.797
<v Jaisa>So that is where my faith comes from, not from any Bible.

00:37:03.881 --> 00:37:04.172
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:37:04.186 --> 00:37:18.547
<v Jaisa>And I just think that for me personally now, like learning about the political and historical development of the Bible and how we've gotten there.

00:37:19.672 --> 00:37:24.442
<v Jaisa>Little Jason's opinion of it's not because I believe because the Bible tells me so.

00:37:24.442 --> 00:37:27.681
<v Jaisa>It's just because I believe it now makes a lot more sense.

00:37:27.711 --> 00:37:27.771
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:37:27.771 --> 00:37:37.641
<v Jaisa>Because the Jesus that I felt wasn't always the Jesus that was depicted, like in terms of scriptural teachings.

00:37:37.731 --> 00:37:37.911
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:38.050
<v Rachael>Yeah.

00:37:38.361 --> 00:37:45.126
<v Jaisa>And the teaching that is totally immaculate, it's all from God, means that the scripture has to stand alone.

00:37:46.416 --> 00:37:49.266
<v Jaisa>On it, like without any kind of interpretation.

00:37:49.446 --> 00:37:53.496
<v Jaisa>So again, like now I look back and it's like, okay, child.

00:37:53.496 --> 00:38:01.896
<v Jaisa>Jason was having a really hard time reconciling the Jesus I felt and knew and the Jesus and the Christianity that I was reading about.

00:38:02.436 --> 00:38:03.786
<v Jaisa>I think you hit something on the head there.

00:38:03.817 --> 00:38:04.326
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:38:04.326 --> 00:38:10.386
<v Jaisa>When we take a literal approach to the Bible as is this is God, this, it's immaculate, it's perfect.

00:38:11.601 --> 00:38:15.801
<v Jaisa>Inherently, you're being told not to question because who are you to question God?

00:38:15.981 --> 00:38:16.521
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:38:16.581 --> 00:38:23.241
<v Jaisa>Right, and that's where, for me, that makes me nervous.

00:38:24.501 --> 00:38:27.922
<v Jaisa>I believe we are meant to ask questions.

00:38:27.951 --> 00:38:31.251
<v Jaisa>Jesus himself asked questions, right?

00:38:31.672 --> 00:38:33.051
<v Jaisa>He didn't understand God.

00:38:33.051 --> 00:38:34.371
<v Jaisa>Why have you forsaken me?

00:38:34.611 --> 00:38:37.221
<v Jaisa>Like he, he asked questions.

00:38:38.241 --> 00:38:38.481
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:38:38.481 --> 00:38:40.911
<v Jaisa>Why are we being told not to ask questions?

00:38:41.001 --> 00:38:43.942
<v Jaisa>I know he also said the truth will set you free.

00:38:44.152 --> 00:38:44.571
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:38:44.601 --> 00:38:45.741
<v Jaisa>Not obedience.

00:38:45.831 --> 00:38:46.192
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:38:46.881 --> 00:38:51.111
<v Jaisa>You know, and I think that's really important because where does truth come from?

00:38:51.141 --> 00:38:53.721
<v Jaisa>But from seeking, from learning.

00:38:53.811 --> 00:38:53.961
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:38:54.201 --> 00:38:56.271
<v Jaisa>Understanding, researching.

00:38:56.301 --> 00:38:56.601
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:38:56.601 --> 00:39:00.922
<v Jaisa>Like, I don't know, like to, to have this concept.

00:39:00.981 --> 00:39:05.511
<v Jaisa>And I think that too, like I was talking to a friend who I, I think does believe the Bible is.

00:39:05.576 --> 00:39:05.965
<v Rachael>is

00:39:06.231 --> 00:39:08.511
<v Jaisa>Immaculate and literal interpretation.

00:39:08.511 --> 00:39:09.351
<v Jaisa>And again, like

00:39:09.565 --> 00:39:09.806
<v Rachael>diverse thought.

00:39:10.101 --> 00:39:10.731
<v Jaisa>diverse thought.

00:39:10.731 --> 00:39:11.781
<v Jaisa>That's perspective, diverse thought.

00:39:11.841 --> 00:39:12.411
<v Jaisa>Yeah, totally.

00:39:12.411 --> 00:39:16.491
<v Jaisa>And like I think up until like, I don't know, five minutes ago, that was my impression.

00:39:17.211 --> 00:39:19.971
<v Jaisa>I was like, well, here's a thought though.

00:39:19.971 --> 00:39:23.121
<v Jaisa>Like, at best it's incomplete.

00:39:23.571 --> 00:39:23.692
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:39:23.811 --> 00:39:26.091
<v Jaisa>At worst it was manipulated.

00:39:26.541 --> 00:39:26.902
<v Jaisa>Right?

00:39:26.902 --> 00:39:27.111
<v Jaisa>Like,

00:39:27.115 --> 00:39:27.326
<v Rachael>Like

00:39:27.381 --> 00:39:29.001
<v Jaisa>that's, that's sort of where I'm at.

00:39:29.001 --> 00:39:32.331
<v Jaisa>Because if you just look at Jesus, the king of kings, right?

00:39:32.331 --> 00:39:33.711
<v Jaisa>Like the god of.

00:39:34.101 --> 00:39:45.711
<v Jaisa>All being from the time that he's born in a manger to 30 years old, there is zero reference of that time period in the Bible.

00:39:46.071 --> 00:39:51.771
<v Jaisa>There are 30 years of Christ's life that are missing other than him teaching in the temple that one time.

00:39:51.777 --> 00:39:52.311
<v Jaisa>Yes, yes.

00:39:52.311 --> 00:39:52.641
<v Jaisa>Thank you.

00:39:52.641 --> 00:39:54.951
<v Jaisa>Like, yeah, but it's like it's, it's.

00:39:54.951 --> 00:39:55.221
<v Jaisa>Yeah, there's, it's

00:39:55.556 --> 00:39:56.280
<v Rachael>Yeah, there's,

00:39:56.317 --> 00:39:57.381
<v Jaisa>not, it's not recorded.

00:39:57.411 --> 00:39:57.471
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:39:57.471 --> 00:40:00.351
<v Jaisa>We don't know what he was doing or where he was.

00:40:00.411 --> 00:40:00.531
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:40:00.711 --> 00:40:03.351
<v Jaisa>So to say like, it's complete, it's perfect.

00:40:03.351 --> 00:40:03.922
<v Jaisa>There's whatever.

00:40:03.922 --> 00:40:07.192
<v Jaisa>I'm like, well, right, but like what was he doing for that time period?

00:40:08.091 --> 00:40:08.631
<v Jaisa>Like that?

00:40:08.631 --> 00:40:10.521
<v Jaisa>Like again, like, I don't know.

00:40:10.581 --> 00:40:18.051
<v Jaisa>It just, to me it's like the logical brain is now catching up to what spiritually I have always felt to be true.

00:40:18.201 --> 00:40:18.321
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:40:18.445 --> 00:40:18.565
<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

00:40:19.161 --> 00:40:21.051
<v Jaisa>So it's liberating.

00:40:21.381 --> 00:40:28.611
<v Jaisa>I think it's exciting and for people that are really scared and saying like, what does this mean for my own faith?

00:40:28.672 --> 00:40:40.641
<v Jaisa>I just wanna tell you, like from where Rachel and I are sitting, it has only made us love the Jesus that we feel that we know is true more.

00:40:40.646 --> 00:40:40.996
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:40:41.571 --> 00:40:44.211
<v Jaisa>And we'll keep saying that, like that's what we're searching for.

00:40:45.291 --> 00:40:47.451
<v Jaisa>God and Jesus can handle your questions.

00:40:47.451 --> 00:40:47.541
<v Jaisa>Yes.

00:40:47.751 --> 00:40:49.761
<v Jaisa>Do you trust them enough to handle it?

00:40:49.791 --> 00:40:49.851
<v Jaisa>Oh

00:40:50.050 --> 00:40:50.080
<v Rachael>Oh,

00:40:52.341 --> 00:40:52.791
<v Jaisa>right.

00:40:52.851 --> 00:40:53.871
<v Jaisa>Do you trust enough?

00:40:54.051 --> 00:40:54.831
<v Jaisa>Oh, shit.

00:40:56.152 --> 00:40:56.541
<v Jaisa>I don't know.

00:40:56.661 --> 00:40:58.192
<v Jaisa>Yeah, like it's okay.

00:40:58.402 --> 00:40:58.821
<v Jaisa>It's okay.

00:40:58.821 --> 00:41:00.681
<v Jaisa>I think that's my biggest thing with this

00:41:00.850 --> 00:41:00.910
<v Rachael>I.

00:41:01.281 --> 00:41:05.511
<v Jaisa>podcast and platform is I want people to know it's okay to ask questions.

00:41:05.571 --> 00:41:06.891
<v Jaisa>It's okay guys.

00:41:07.011 --> 00:41:07.821
<v Jaisa>We don't know the answer.

00:41:07.821 --> 00:41:08.541
<v Jaisa>Well, and I think

00:41:09.175 --> 00:41:09.205
<v Rachael>I

00:41:09.501 --> 00:41:14.121
<v Jaisa>Jesus wants us to, like He desires, I believe, an authentic relationship with us.

00:41:14.811 --> 00:41:16.371
<v Jaisa>He has, you have to know him.

00:41:16.701 --> 00:41:17.721
<v Jaisa>You have to get to know him.

00:41:17.721 --> 00:41:18.771
<v Jaisa>What do you do on a first date?

00:41:18.771 --> 00:41:19.581
<v Jaisa>You ask questions.

00:41:19.971 --> 00:41:20.751
<v Jaisa>Where you from?

00:41:20.751 --> 00:41:20.841
<v Jaisa>What

00:41:20.995 --> 00:41:21.301
<v Rachael>What you do?

00:41:21.771 --> 00:41:22.251
<v Jaisa>you know?

00:41:22.346 --> 00:41:22.465
<v Rachael>Yeah.

00:41:22.672 --> 00:41:23.091
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:41:23.241 --> 00:41:25.402
<v Jaisa>Like to get to know someone.

00:41:25.402 --> 00:41:26.841
<v Jaisa>You ask questions.

00:41:27.652 --> 00:41:40.611
<v Jaisa>You know, what I just thought of is the, the, um, the term blind faith, like blind faith, I think is sort of sometimes what we're doing when we don't ask questions.

00:41:40.701 --> 00:41:49.101
<v Jaisa>And I think if you can still, after you ask all your questions, you learn all of the truth and you still can say, I believe.

00:41:49.611 --> 00:41:51.652
<v Jaisa>That's a really powerful faith.

00:41:51.981 --> 00:41:52.221
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:41:52.281 --> 00:41:57.081
<v Jaisa>Versus saying, okay, these are the things that have to all be true.

00:41:57.501 --> 00:41:58.311
<v Jaisa>All of'em.

00:41:58.431 --> 00:42:00.021
<v Jaisa>You can't question one of'em.

00:42:00.141 --> 00:42:00.321
<v Jaisa>Mm-hmm.

00:42:00.385 --> 00:42:00.596
<v Rachael>Mm-hmm.

00:42:00.771 --> 00:42:03.231
<v Jaisa>In order for you to really prove your faith.

00:42:03.861 --> 00:42:06.922
<v Jaisa>That's what it feels like a flimsy foundation for me.

00:42:07.101 --> 00:42:07.311
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:42:07.317 --> 00:42:10.311
<v Jaisa>You know, and I think that could be reflective of wise.

00:42:10.341 --> 00:42:18.141
<v Jaisa>People have abandoned their church, have abandoned their faith and totality because if they can't buy one thing.

00:42:18.922 --> 00:42:22.761
<v Jaisa>Out of all of these really miraculous things that are surrounding Jesus.

00:42:23.271 --> 00:42:28.672
<v Jaisa>That must mean that they aren't allowed to believe in Jesus, and I don't believe that that's true.

00:42:29.121 --> 00:42:30.922
<v Jaisa>Blessed are those who believe and haven't seen.

00:42:30.981 --> 00:42:31.281
<v Jaisa>Right.

00:42:31.281 --> 00:42:36.111
<v Jaisa>Like I believe that we can't, like the goal here is to not know all the answers.

00:42:36.111 --> 00:42:38.931
<v Jaisa>To make it safe to believe in Jesus.

00:42:38.991 --> 00:42:39.261
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:42:39.266 --> 00:42:43.161
<v Jaisa>It's, it's being comfortable in asking questions.

00:42:43.341 --> 00:42:43.611
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:42:43.641 --> 00:42:45.652
<v Jaisa>That lend to a deeper faith.

00:42:45.681 --> 00:42:46.791
<v Jaisa>That's, I don't know.

00:42:46.881 --> 00:42:47.121
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:42:47.172 --> 00:42:47.951
<v Jaisa>All right, team.

00:42:48.311 --> 00:42:49.931
<v Jaisa>Um, this, I

00:42:50.190 --> 00:42:50.370
<v Rachael>Hey,

00:42:50.531 --> 00:42:52.601
<v Jaisa>don't feel like this is gonna be the end of this topic.

00:42:52.601 --> 00:42:53.172
<v Jaisa>I don't know.

00:42:53.172 --> 00:42:55.331
<v Jaisa>I mean, this is so exciting and so cool and.

00:42:55.410 --> 00:42:55.590
<v Rachael>and

00:42:55.886 --> 00:42:57.086
<v Jaisa>Liberating in a lot of ways.

00:42:57.146 --> 00:42:57.206
<v Jaisa>Yeah.

00:42:57.206 --> 00:43:03.506
<v Jaisa>So thanks for being on this journey, and thanks for being part of our community where Rachel and I can feel safe talking and exploring this.

00:43:03.986 --> 00:43:08.696
<v Jaisa>You can feel safe expressing your opinions, even if they're contrary to ours.

00:43:08.696 --> 00:43:10.496
<v Jaisa>We want to hear them so.

00:43:11.067 --> 00:43:22.706
<v Jaisa>Basically all we know is that the Bible is both sacred and it was also strategic, and it's a beautiful collection of divine truths and also a product of a very heightened political time, right?

00:43:22.706 --> 00:43:24.086
<v Jaisa>I think like that's where we landed.

00:43:24.686 --> 00:43:32.606
<v Jaisa>So it's not about losing faith, it's about finding faith and all of the questions and all of the messiness of our history, and it's still unfolding.

00:43:32.951 --> 00:43:39.011
<v Jaisa>So if you thought that this episode was intriguing, interesting, thought provoking, please share with a friend.

00:43:39.011 --> 00:43:41.652
<v Jaisa>We would love to continue to spread the word of spirit, outspoken.

00:43:41.652 --> 00:43:43.841
<v Jaisa>And as always, thank you for being here.

00:43:44.261 --> 00:43:45.101
<v Jaisa>We love you guys.

00:43:45.101 --> 00:43:46.152
<v Jaisa>We love our community.

00:43:46.152 --> 00:43:52.692
<v Jaisa>And stay tuned because next week we're gonna have another job dropping episode, subject TV date.

00:43:54.461 --> 00:43:55.152
<v Jaisa>All right.

00:43:55.211 --> 00:43:56.471
<v Jaisa>Alright, peace.

00:43:56.531 --> 00:43:57.161
<v Jaisa>Bye.

00:43:59.571 --> 00:44:01.461
Thanks for joining us for today's episode.

00:44:01.581 --> 00:44:07.881
If you are ready to take your spirituality to the next level, be sure to check out our website, spirit outspoken.com.

00:44:08.331 --> 00:44:15.351
There you can download free educational resources, read our latest blog posts, and join the spirit outspoken community.

00:44:15.951 --> 00:44:26.241
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