Double Down on your Strengths - Ryan talks with Adam Posner about time working with Gary V and building a new company

 Welcome to the Radical Marketing Podcast.
 Here is your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, welcome to the latest edition
 of the Radical Marketing Podcast.
 I'm joined by guys to run with in New York.
 You know, Adam Posner, good to have you brother.
 Ryan, thanks for having me.
 I'm angry to catch up, reminisce and talk about
 the current events in our life and life.
 Exactly.
 Lots of going on here.
 I'm going to give you your do here.
 You're now the founder of NHP Talent Group,
 Host of the Pawscast.
 Pawscast.
 Podcast.
 Podcast.
 Podcast.
 Right?
 The play on the words there.
 Play with words.
 I love it.
 You must be in marketing.
 And am I leaving out any credentials other than
 just overall great dude and, you know, guy I miss?
 Yeah.
 I mean, I recruit.
 I'm a recruiter man.
 I'm a marketing recruiter.
 I recruit for all those jobs that I used to have back in the
 there.
 All the agency jobs, creative account management,
 strategy, UI, UX, data, all that stuff.
 I work with brands.
 I work with startups.
 I work with agencies.
 And not just putting a warm body in a seat, dude,
 but it's really working with these companies to be an
 extension of their in-house talent team.
 Right?
 Helping them with TA process, interviewing.
 Really being that quarterback.
 And something that I always like to say, you know,
 you're a recruiter at your company, whoever's handling talent,
 they're the first touch point of any new employee coming in.
 And they need to be that brand ambassador, man.
 They need to represent your company.
 And that's really what I built my business on, right?
 Like leveraging all those skills, 15 years working and advertising
 and marketing, the account management,
 the relationship stuff and parlaying that into my business.
 And so far, so good man.
 What, you know, let's start.
 Let's give everybody a little bit of the cliff notes background on
 Adam.
 You know, you and I had had a stop at EP encode together in New
 York.
 You know, the southern guy I'm moving up living in New York,
 with all you guys and trying to act like we fit in.
 But no, but let's walk people kind of down.
 You know, your origin story, you know, through advertising
 and the business.
 And I, you know, maybe we'll land, you know,
 where we're in this situation, the pandemic,
 like nothing else.
 And you're, you're kind of in the throes of it in Long Island.
 And so let's give everybody just a little bit of that, that history.
 Yeah.
 And yeah, that, you know, down and dirty, you know,
 you know, born and raised New Yorker, something that like is in my
 blood, man, I love it.
 I'm literally sitting in shade stadium seats right here when they
 took down the med stadium about 10 years ago.
 But you know, advertising, marketing was in my blood, you know,
 did it in college, new great internships, working like sports,
 Buffalo sabers up there and everything.
 And I did it, man.
 I jumped into, you know, the crazy New York ad market,
 uh, worked at a bunch of different agencies.
 I went on client side.
 It's been five years over its serious XM satellite radio.
 Right when Howard Stern was coming on board, which is awesome.
 So I learned the other side of the business, right?
 I learned the agency side.
 And I learned what we'd like to call the client side.
 And it was direct to consumer marketing, really learning the,
 the fundamentals of, you know, personalization, email marketing,
 uh, direct mail, subscriber based marketing, OEM with cars,
 auto, all that kind of good stuff.
 Uh, you know, we had the first streaming app, right?
 I was number five on the beta test for the, for the serious XM,
 serious app was before, you know, the XM pan or a spot if I
 whatever else they're kind of bringing in over there.
 Um, and then I kind of made a left turn, dude.
 I went over to American Express after serious, which was interesting.
 And I thought it was going to be something that it wasn't,
 but I literally knew Ryan.
 And I don't know if you ever had this experience.
 But day one, I knew that it wasn't right for me.
 Like it just didn't feel good, right?
 It just didn't feel right.
 But I stuck it out, man.
 Did it for a couple of years.
 Uh, and then I decided to go back to agency life.
 Um, and I was at a small place and I was kind of, you know,
 got wind of this agency called VaynerMedia.
 You know, Gary was not a household name at the time.
 Uh, and I got an interview there.
 It went awesome, but they weren't hiring at the time.
 So I went back to the agency.
 I wasn't really loving.
 And then November, October, 2014, Vayner came calling,
 went through the interview process and I landed over at VaynerMedia.
 It was the late 2014, which was pretty interesting time for me, man.
 It's right when, you know, things were ramping up for Gary.
 I mean, I think, you know, obviously he's been around, but in the agency world,
 like the machine was really started to turn then, wasn't it?
 And what's interesting about Gary was because it was one of the first non-traditional agencies, right?
 Really breaking the mold and being disruptive.
 It was quick to market social first, you know, it was interesting because in the office,
 like, just kind of pull back the current a little bit and this is the original office.
 It was signed seats, except for creative people and project managers.
 So every day you came in, it was literally like, Lord of the fucking flies, man.
 You would come in and like, fight for seats.
 And they all grew that space so quickly that there was certain points when you came in,
 where you literally had to sit on the floor and I was like, I don't know.
 That really wasn't, you know, for me.
 Anyway, you know, I jumped in there, very like ambitious.
 And, you know, I was very, like, you know, excited to like have my point of view
 and make an impact in everything.
 Like fire pretty quickly and I learned that it was just not, you know,
 it wasn't the right place for me, it wasn't the right time.
 And that was, that was hard, man.
 It really, you know, it didn't, it just wasn't clicking for me.
 And unfortunately I lost my job and I got fired and it was shitty.
 It was really shitty because I thought I made it top of the hill, top of the mountain, right?
 And I thought it was going to be there for a long time.
 I mean, Gary was somebody that I admired in so many different ways.
 And, you know, that day that I got let go.
 And I remember it was like yesterday and Gary and I had a great relationship.
 And we sat there for an hour, you know, talking about, you know, what happened
 and we broke it all down.
 And he said, listen, man, there's most important piece of advice I ever received.
 He said, you got to stop focusing on all the shit that you suck at and double down in your strengths.
 And I'll be honest with you, Ryan.
 I thought he was literally just blowing smoke up my ass to get me the hell out the door, right?
 Like, here's your fortune.
 You get the hell out, right?
 Like, here's your, here's your words of wisdom.
 Thanks a lot.
 But it wasn't that just that, dude.
 I mean, we sat there and we literally broke down all of my strengths, man.
 What you and I are doing right now, my ability to foster and develop relationships.
 And honestly, man, pretty damn good at this marketing thing.
 I know what I'm doing.
 It may not have been the great place there, but I have those fundamentals.
 And he was like, all right, you got all these pieces, you know, you're doing all these things.
 What are you going to do with it?
 And I was like, well, you know, I kind of been thinking my buddy does health care recruiting.
 And he, you know, he does pretty well.
 Before I could finish my sentence, Gary turns to me because, dude, you would make an awesome recruiter.
 And I'm in Kenya, man.
 That's what I did.
 I walked out the door.
 I walked directly into the bar next door at 11, 15 in the morning.
 I had a couple of double doubles and, um, and then I called my wife and told her what happened.
 And the fucked up thing is it was April 1st, right?
 It was April Fool's Day.
 So April 1st to me, April Fool's Day is always my kind of Vayneversary.
 Um, but what I did was, man, I, I, I did my due diligence, right?
 Before I, you know, started recruiting, I called every recruiter I ever worked with reached out to a ton of them.
 No recruiter placed me at EP.
 Um, and he's, he's my dude now.
 Um, I do Jeff Stewart.
 And, uh, I learned everything I could without stepping foot in the job.
 Lucky enough for me, I got picked up, uh, like a free agent.
 Um, I joined an agency called onward search because there's a lot of recruiting agencies where it's literally all metrics.
 I pick up dial, pick up dial, call, call, call, call.
 This place understood that it was about relationships.
 And they saw my strengths of having relationships that I was going to bring it to the table and really fostered that.
 But I was able to learn under a great mentor who really taught me the art and science of recruiting.
 Like I learned how to be a recruiter.
 And it's crazy, man.
 Think about starting a new career at the age of 35.
 Rookie, day one.
 Yeah.
 $40,000 a year, draw commission, man.
 Going from a nice six figure job to that, living out in the burbs, taxes, all that shit to men.
 It's tough.
 But I did it, you know, I climbed the ladder.
 I was working the year, put up some great numbers, um, one over to another agency, a UK based agency.
 Um, I was there for about six months and chemistry wasn't right there.
 And I came home one night to my wife and I'm like, something's not good here.
 And she goes, why?
 Why don't you just do this for yourself?
 And I'm not even shooting you dude.
 It was half a second decision.
 I go done.
 And went out on my own.
 It's been almost three years.
 Congrats, man.
 I've been, you know, been a fan from afar watching your growth, watching the shows.
 And, you know, I always loved you at the agency and you always had that flair that I loved.
 Um, and keeping it just being real, you know, and I appreciate that.
 Translated into your success, uh, most served, I mean, deservedly.
 Yeah.
 One thing, you know, and I don't want to, I don't spend too much time, you know, but Gary V is such a light and ride.
 I think it most people listening to any podcast now, you know, he's such a, you know, fundamental kind of player now.
 I think what can you do?
 What can you speak to as far as?
 I know if he wasn't as real as he, as he comes across that he, that would, that would be shown.
 It has to be exactly what you see.
 But is there any nuggets or anything like?
 What's it really like there and with him?
 It's, it's a great question.
 And let me just caveat that there, man.
 I was only there for about seven months, right?
 And that was a long time ago.
 I mean, that was almost five, that was, yeah, it was five years ago.
 Um, and every time I see Gary literally once, twice a year, run into him, reconnecting everything.
 He's as real as a day I met him and what you see is what you get.
 He is real.
 Now, there is the Gary V versus Gary Vaynerchuk persona.
 There's a Gary Vaynerchuk CEO, business owner, right?
 And then there's a Gary V out there that you see.
 There's a lot of people.
 That's all they see.
 But let me tell you something.
 And he doesn't need me to defend them.
 Believe me.
 He doesn't need me to defend them.
 But he is genuine.
 He is caring.
 He, he legitimately cares about his people in so many different ways.
 Uh, and he keeps it real man.
 And he really does.
 And what you see is what you get.
 It's, um,
 How was, uh,
 It was just like any of you know, you should have several stops at agencies.
 Yeah.
 And again, I know it's 14, 15 lots changed.
 Yeah.
 It might space back then.
 He's preached it.
 He's preached, you know, kind of the anti agency.
 He's the anti New York agency.
 He's the anti.
 But it's hard to, once you start having to hire 400 people in New York,
 it's hard for it not to become a New York.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I mean, listen,
 I, I've been in the new office a couple of times.
 I was there in December.
 I interviewed Claude Silver over there and just like, you know, based on optics.
 I mean, once you get to your point, once you get to a certain size, right?
 There's a lot of operational elements that mirror a traditional agency, right?
 A traditional agency structure.
 But what, I mean, I can't talk right now about the culture.
 Right.
 I can only actually can.
 I mean, I need to be Claude Silver there.
 I mean, the culture is fantastic.
 What am I talking about?
 Of course, I can talk about the culture.
 I interviewed the head of culture over there.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 They, they keep it real.
 Um, you know, they, they're really focused on their employees.
 The employees of the lifeblood.
 And I think that's kind of where it separates from, you know,
 you think about traditional agencies, right?
 That have been around for a long time.
 That have a lot of the flaws, a lot of cultural flaws.
 Um, you know, they do things differently there.
 And, um, you could feel it, right?
 But ultimately, you know, it's an agency based around one person.
 Gary, right?
 Like at the agency built around Gary.
 Like, would Vayner still be successful without Gary?
 That's a million dollar question, right?
 Yeah.
 I don't think so.
 Right.
 Like, like, Ogleby, you know, you can, you can name.
 Like, how many other agencies could you name?
 Where the founders are really like the figureheads, right?
 I mean, there's a few of them out there.
 Yeah.
 Right?
 I mean, there's, there's some, you know, big ones.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Well, let's transition a little bit.
 The, um, I just think that perspective is important because I think people,
 so many people just think he's full of shit or, you know, but,
 but, but they also don't realize what social media, everything else,
 that if he was, that he'd be getting called out left and right.
 And you just don't see that.
 I mean, the content is we all consume.
 You never, I've never, do I think he's running an agency and he's,
 he productizes everything really well.
 Hell, yeah, he does.
 He's a great marketer.
 But at the end of the day, I think if it wasn't what you were seeing,
 I think it would be, uh, pretty apparent.
 Yeah.
 I mean, in this, in this transparent social world where all the information
 is at your fingertips, from a business perspective, you would know right away.
 Right?
 And you would know if he's screwed people over.
 You know, if he was not what you see, man, what he is.
 So let's talk about the podcast or pause cast.
 You know, I know that's taken off for you.
 I know it's a, you know, we talk pre show about that being, you know,
 a new business type of, you know, marketing platform in a way, uh,
 in delivering content that's relevant meaningful and, you know, being yourself.
 But let's talk, talk about the evolution of the podcast.
 Talk about, you know, maybe some of your favorite guests and, you know,
 let's give it, let's get into a little bit.
 I, let me just, first and foremost, I, I, I love podcasting, man.
 He's brought out so many elements of things that I love being creative, having a platform,
 um, you know, Howard Stern is somebody that I've always like, he's just,
 he's on my Mount Rushmore, right?
 Howard Stern, he's on my route Mount Rushmore in so many ways.
 But as it relates to the, to the podcast, it's the style of interviewing.
 And I don't know if you're a Howard fan or not, but when he transitioned from traditional radio to satellite radio,
 he now has an open format where instead of it being able to interview a guest for 15,
 20 minutes commercial break, he literally just goes and goes,
 I don't know if you caught the Tom Brady one recently that was on, you know, a couple of weeks ago,
 I haven't seen the interview Tom Brady for two and a half hours.
 Holy shit.
 Barely talked about Giselle, he, he talked about Tom's.
 Yeah, it was so deep and it was just a conversation like we're having right now.
 And that's the way I really try to approach every, every show that I do.
 I do a lot of preparation, just like Howard does, Howard does a ton of research.
 And maybe his, his support staff is doing it, but he's doing his homework, right?
 Like he has that he's doing it.
 He's super informed.
 He knows lots of intimate details, but most importantly, he takes the listeners on an arc.
 He takes them into a story arc and it really relates with all of his guests in a conversational form.
 And that's really what I try to do, but I didn't start out that way, right?
 I mean, I'm up to, you know, almost 95 episodes recorded and aired.
 And it didn't start out that, you know, the podcast started out with an idea.
 I said, you know what, I want to try this thing and it started out with me recording a network
 and called somebody, you know, in my, in my, in my network.
 And I said, you know what, let's, let's keep going with this.
 And I started to, you know, go into my network and book guests and everything.
 And I realized like, hey, listen, my network is my network.
 And I have so many amazing people that I know I could bring to the forefront, shine a light on them.
 And that's my show, man.
 My show is not about me, right?
 I mean, I interject.
 I get my point of view, like any good host should do, but I spotlight those guests,
 but it's an interesting mix.
 So it's guests from my career journey, right, at different stages of it,
 reflect my career story, and then experts in the world of recruiting talent acquisition.
 Now I'm starting to move into more like life journeys.
 I have a couple of NFL athletes, a couple of Olympians coming on in May.
 And it's just been an amazing journey for myself, for the show, for the followers,
 and tapping into all those marketing skills that I know for years, man,
 like how to promote, how to create content.
 And it's stuff that I love.
 And you know, you and I were talking about it before.
 The not so secret secret about podcasting is that it's an exceptional business development tool.
 Right?
 Like, right?
 Like if I'm going to reach out to a CMO or some biz dev target, right?
 And hit them with cold calls and emails and everything.
 I'm going to have ship box results, man.
 But hey, it's pretty easy.
 Hey, you want to come on my, you know, pretty successful podcast, right?
 For an hour and talk about, you know, what you do in your career and everything.
 Now I have a report with them.
 Now I have their freaking phone number.
 And now when it comes time to turn on the business, it's warmed up, man.
 Exactly.
 It's a relationship that way.
 It's hard to, you just can't cold email or cold text or whatever the latest flare is.
 Doesn't work.
 Doesn't work.
 You know, it doesn't work or even the inbox stuff.
 But if you, but if you asked them to come on your show, you give them some context, you know, maybe share an episode or something,
 you know, give them a little feedback on your listenership, you know, they want to tell their story too.
 Now it's marketing for them.
 It's, it's relationship starting for you.
 And, you know, and you get great content out of it.
 Yeah.
 And the gems that have come in, and here's the other kind of crazy thing too.
 Like I, I used to read a lot of books before kids.
 I used to read a lot of business books too and everything.
 And I put that down.
 I haven't read a good business book in a while.
 I think Gary Vee's book, you know, crushed it from a few years ago was a less book I read.
 So the podcast for me is my learning, right?
 It's my master's class, right?
 It's my, you know, MBA program where I'm surrounding myself with these experts.
 I just drop a knowledge bomb after knowledge bomb.
 And that's how I absorb by listening.
 Yeah.
 I love it.
 So talk.
 Favorite guests.
 I'm putting you on the spot.
 No, I got, I got a couple here.
 So I have two favorite guests.
 One is episode 50 with Claude Silver.
 That was a show that I filmed live in the VaynerMedia offices was my first live interview.
 Like live in person interview.
 And I have great footage from that.
 And it was very emotional for me to be there in her office.
 You know, I saw Gary afterwards caught up with him.
 But that conversation goes deep because I ask her questions.
 I don't think anybody else has.
 Like, what does it feel like to actually fire somebody?
 What goes into that thought process when making that decision?
 Like I wanted to go deep and I wanted to relate.
 Like that's the type of shit that I wanted to bring to the table there.
 My other favorite guest is.
 Episode, I think it's episode 47 with Joel Lundenfeld.
 You might know Joel.
 Yep.
 Joel was a bigger Twitter.
 Yeah, he went over to.
 He did a bunch of amazing things.
 He's a good buddy of mine from college.
 He was my mentor for a long time.
 And he just has an incredible career story.
 He'd be a great guest on your show, dude.
 I know.
 I'm like writing these down and Claude.
 You know, Joel.
 Joel.
 Joel.
 I remember.
 I love Joel working with him.
 He was an agency.
 Moxie.
 Moxie was a Moxie.
 Yeah.
 He was a Moxie.
 He was a youngest CMO over there.
 And he's got like.
 If you want to spend a few minutes and listen to it greatly.
 Go check out that show.
 And I'm trying to promote my own show on your show.
 But go to that show and listen to him tell his career story.
 I mean, I literally just sat back and put the mic down and let him just go, man.
 And he tells this career journey that you're like, wow.
 Like, you know, an anthropology major for the University of Buffalo.
 And he's like, what?
 My mom thought I was just going to dig a fucking dinosaur bones all day, right?
 Like, no, it's, it's, it's a great story.
 And like being there on the sidelines, you know, as you were saying before,
 I'm watching him and being successful.
 That was like me looking up and saying, you know what?
 If you could do what I could do, right?
 Like, like, he did it.
 You know, coming out of a dumb ass school like University of Buffalo, no offense.
 I'm kind of kidding there, right?
 But like, it doesn't matter the school.
 It matters who you are and what you bring to the table.
 And Joel just crushes life, man.
 And, you know, him and I remain tight.
 I mean, I literally spoke to him a couple of weeks ago.
 And where's he at now?
 He's out in Tahoe, man.
 He's doing all right.
 Dude, he is now the CMO of North Cal cannabis.
 So he went into the cannabis biz.
 And it's just crushing it, man.
 Yeah, that's an interesting business.
 That's it's only scratching the surface.
 Yeah, man.
 It's fascinating, man.
 You talk about cannabis and CBD.
 And, you know, it's, uh, it's interesting market to watch.
 For sure.
 Are you working on any cannabis clients?
 We've been approached and we're trying to figure out the best way to navigate it.
 I wanted to have my ducks in a row before I just, you just dive in.
 Right.
 And let's hear a focus on that.
 Yeah.
 I mean, there's, uh, there's another great guest.
 I had his name is Jared Mersky.
 He's actually going to be back on.
 He's a founder of an agency called Wicken Mortar.
 Um, he's another potential great guest to, uh,
 the whole agency around cannabis marketing.
 But like, dude, you got to see the packaging and the thought process that goes,
 it's beautiful, man.
 It's a luxury, it's a luxury.
 Good.
 It's a luxury.
 Good.
 Look at the price point on that stuff, right?
 Like you got to pack it.
 You don't, you're not throwing it in a frickin' cellophane bag or tinfoil, right?
 You got to pack it up.
 I've done some project work from some of the EC companies that are kind of like that same thing.
 I mean, right before the cannabis started taking off and like,
 it's a, it's an interesting market, you know, and there's some luxury and,
 you know, it's marketing.
 I mean, you know, it is like, you know, the thought process, everything that goes in it.
 But it's going to be fascinating to watch it.
 Um, so talk about, you know, the talent group in HP, you know, um,
 what's the evolution been like, you know, being an entrepreneur now?
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 You know, like, there's so many things you got in.
 Yeah.
 Any, any good, uh, war stories so far?
 I've been through, I've been through it all, man.
 I mean, I, I also, once I stopped working for somebody else and work,
 started working for myself, everything changed.
 And the dynamic that change man was, and you know this, it's zero fail.
 And once you have the zero fail mentality, everything else man just thrives off of that, right?
 And that's my motivation.
 I know that I am, I need to be successful to take care of my family, right?
 And let's talk about it right now.
 Right?
 I mean, I lost, I don't say that I've lost business during this pandemic.
 I say I've lost opportunities.
 I didn't lose any business.
 Yeah.
 And I lost opportunities that I would probably have because people aren't hiring in my field.
 I mean, I'm lucky enough I got, you know, half my business going right now.
 I'm using this time wisely to, you know, quadruple down on content, build my own brand, build a company brand.
 And that's what I'm doing.
 But, you know, having that, that, that your own business is a game changer.
 It's, it's a, it's a mindset.
 It changes everything.
 And it's really brought out, you know, kind of like the podcast.
 It's brought out so many qualities in me that I knew I had, but never came to the surface.
 Yeah.
 I mean, the accountability is ground zero.
 You know, like you, you're, you're a buck stops with you with everything.
 Yeah.
 So not that, I don't see you're not this kind of guy.
 I'm not that kind.
 We're not finger pointers like, you know, like not take the blame or not whatever.
 But when it's all you accountability, you just like, you know, you don't have any,
 there's no shared, shared accountability.
 Like when you're in an agency or a big company or something like that, you've got this insulation.
 Right.
 Even if you aren't mentally going, oh, I have insulation, you, but you, you instinctively feel it, you know.
 You look at some other people into the bus.
 There's no one to throw into the bus by yourself, right?
 Like, you know, but it goes back to that literally everything changed for me from a vulnerability,
 accountability, and a self-awareness standpoint that day I got fired, man,
 because I literally had to look myself in the mirror and say, who, like you said,
 the, the, what's it called?
 Zoolander moment.
 Like, who am I?
 Right?
 Like you have to look at the mirror, right?
 He's looking down on the puddle and he's reflecting.
 That's the truth, man.
 Like you have to say, who am I?
 What am I really doing here?
 What am I really good at?
 What I want to be doing?
 And once you start to open up that true self-awareness and accountability, everything changes,
 everything changes, because you're being truthful with yourself, right?
 You're not lying to yourself.
 You're not saying I'm trying to do something that I suck at.
 You know, let me, let me put that shit aside and let me focus on the things I'm good at,
 because I know that's going to pay dividends in the end.
 And when you build that mentality and there's trial and error, man, believe me,
 I, you know, when I started this business, I, you know, I thought it was going to be one direction,
 you know, really building out something big.
 And then I said, you know what, I really am operating well with this boutique model.
 I got a couple of people that work for me, you know, figuring out different ways to scale it.
 And I don't know if I want to be running a big company.
 You know, I'm just going to be truthful about it.
 Mo money, mo problems.
 That's what they say.
 You know, I, you know, my goal, honestly, man, is to make enough money where my wife doesn't have to work.
 Yeah.
 That's literally, I've been asked this question before, but you ever get the question like, what's your number?
 Like, what's your number, man?
 What's your number?
 And I say, my number is going to be when I could figure out what it takes for her not to work,
 because she doesn't want to work anymore. She wants to spend all the time with the kids, right?
 Yeah.
 Well, everyone's spending a lot of time with kids these days.
 And God, I like my kids, right?
 I mean, there's people out there.
 I see some shitty kids, man.
 I want to know what the child abuse numbers are.
 Are they?
 How many domestic disputes?
 What the percentage is on that?
 What was this all said?
 Well, you know what, that's, that's a dark side too.
 And, you know, a lot of bad things are going to come out of this, right?
 I mean, let's start with even like, I walk around my neighborhood.
 Man, I see gloves and masks on the floor.
 Like, I don't understand why people can't throw that shit out, right?
 And then we talk about, there's a lot of people right now that are trapped with their villains.
 There's a lot of people we're going to work or school for them.
 Is that escape?
 It's that time out of the house.
 It's, it's scary, man.
 I know the numbers are up suicide numbers are up.
 You know, it's, it's rough.
 You know, this is definitely a dark time in our culture.
 But I think that there's so much light coming out.
 There's so much innovation.
 There's so much togetherness that we, you know, there's always going to be the dark side.
 I have to let that let that light shine, man.
 How's it, you know, maybe talk since we went down that path.
 Like, obviously, no one has a crystal ball.
 But it's, it's got to be hidden New York ad world pretty hard.
 You know, we talked a little pre show about that.
 But I, you know, like we're a little insulated like I was talking my wife last night.
 You know, we're by a percentage based one right at if we're not the one of the fastest growing agencies in South Carolina.
 And looking at our revenue numbers, you know, that it's like this.
 But, you know, admittedly March and April.
 I got us playing out.
 We're not going down.
 But it's, but that trajectory has slowed.
 But I, I just don't know how New York isn't kind of getting smashed by this.
 You know, at least we had business side.
 Yeah.
 It really, you know, it's, it's industry specific, right?
 It's industry specific, right?
 There's farmer that's doing well, the certain sectors doing well.
 But every sector is getting hit.
 Sure.
 Right.
 Every agency is getting hit because if you're a consumer good and you're not selling it.
 If your hospitality travel, it's all going to trickle down.
 I was going to be the first to go.
 It's going to be your agency supported in your marketing.
 Your marketing budget goes.
 And then your, then the agency supporting that marketing budget goes.
 Right.
 So it's going to be tough.
 I mean, you know, you kind of flip it on the side too.
 From a recruiting standpoint, there are companies that are hiring and never in recent years.
 Never in recent years.
 Have there been so much a list talent available on the market?
 Right.
 Which is great for them because you know, if you're a company and you could hire you're going to pick up some great talent right now.
 But it sucks if you're like a B or C player, it's going to make that job search so much harder.
 So it's evolving, man, but I'm optimistic and New York is an anomaly, right?
 You know, we talked about it before, social distancing is hard here, just by sheer nature
 of the, you know, the concentration, the saturation of people and actively whirl on top of
 each other, trains, buses, walking on the streets, man.
 So New York, it's going to take a while and it's going to be interesting to see how
 companies open up and, you know, it's a balance as a leader to be optimistic and, you know,
 rational at the same time, right?
 Like how do you, how do you balance that?
 Like how do you like, you know, yeah, yeah, everyone, you know, we're going to get back
 to work togetherness, but at the same time, I want my employees to be comfortable.
 I want them to feel safe.
 I want them to feel trusted.
 I want them to feel okay, coming back to work.
 And you know what, I want them to feel okay telling me that they're not ready to come
 back to work.
 Yeah.
 It's uncharted, man.
 It is.
 There's no, there's no playbook for anything that's going on.
 But what do you see?
 You talked about a little bit keeping that boutique feel within HP.
 But like, what are the kind of mile markers out there, not your number, but like, you
 know, obviously we get that.
 But is there maybe other, other goals, other things that maybe aren't, maybe completely
 numbers based or I want to have 30 employees or, you know, I mean, I think it's, I think
 it's client based, right?
 I think that, you know, I want to scale to a point where I could empower other people
 to do what I do, right?
 Where I could put trusted consultants and advisors into company underneath my, you know,
 my shingle here, right?
 Yeah.
 And, and build that name brand, you know, and it's only two and a half years.
 And that's, you know, infancy in the world of, of building a business.
 But I, I really have done a tremendous amount of relationship building, right?
 And surrounded myself with good people, good advisors.
 And for me, that, that's, that's a mile marker, right?
 Making sure that I'm doing things the right way.
 And I'll put a number out there, man.
 I mean, not, I won't like tell the number, but last year, 2019, I put up a really impressive
 number for myself, right?
 You know, a big financial number for me.
 It was a number I never hit my career.
 It was a number that was kind of a goal number, a reach number, and I did it.
 And it was awesome.
 And thank God I did.
 Because right now, you know, revenues down almost it by percent year over year.
 So it's, it's important to have that money in the bank right now, man, and not spend it
 on, you know, more branded hats.
 Yeah.
 As we close things out, what's, uh, any, any good tips, you know, either on the entrepreneur
 side, the recruiting side, any kind of like playbook tips or things or where you see things
 going, maybe as a relation to the market, or just in general, you know, with just your
 life experiences and your kind of entrepreneurial path that you've gone through.
 Yeah.
 So there's a couple of things that hold dear to me on a, on a mindset and then action,
 you know, a real tangible action thing.
 So you know, first and foremost is truly trust your gut is something that, you know, I believe
 in, you know, if you feel something, the first time go with it, right, don't overthink
 things.
 And I'm a chronic overthinker, man.
 So I really have been trying to like trust my gut and my instincts and really follow
 that.
 Um, be careful who you take advice from, right, take advice from people who've actually
 been through it.
 There's a lot of gurus, a lot of people out there trying to tell you what to do, who
 to be, don't listen to that shit, right?
 Like listen to people who you see, you know, that you admire for real, right?
 So just be mindful of that.
 When it comes down to, you know, day by day actionable advice, the best piece of advice
 that I received recently was from my mentor, uh, I think it was Tom Hall when I started
 on recruiting.
 And he said to me, plan your work and work your plan, plan your work and work your plan.
 I say this to myself every morning when I'm ready to go to work, when I'm ready to turn
 on that computer and boot up, what am I going to do today?
 What do I need to get done and what's my plan for attacking it, right?
 And I write it out and put my notes down.
 I go, these are my checklists, these are things I gotta, and listen, man, you and I both
 know distractions, client calls, kids, all that kind of shit, you could throw you off, but
 at least I know there's accountability there, right?
 I know I stuck to it.
 I got done what I needed to do and there was a plan there.
 Uh, and then something I follow from Gary V, it's Clouds and Dirt, right?
 It's all Clouds and Dirt philosophy, right?
 There's times when you gotta be, you know, looking forward and looking in the future and
 then you're down in the dirt, grinding away and stay away from that middle girl, man,
 the middle girl on the gray area.
 That's where she goes to die.
 Yeah.
 Love it, man.
 Well, let me, uh, let's key up how people can find you the podcast information.
 Yeah, man.
 How can everyone stay up to speed with everything you're up to and find you?
 Absolutely, man.
 So first of all, someone linked in Adam J. Posner.
 You will find another Adam Posner from Australia, who is my awesome LinkedIn penpal who I had
 on my live show.
 We had one of the best live shows together.
 It was awesome, man.
 We had so much fun to it.
 It was actually a great show.
 He's a loyalty marketer in Australia.
 He's like a speaker.
 He's a big name in Australia.
 He's your general.
 So Adam J. Posner on LinkedIn, company website and HP talent group.com, everything podcast
 related, the Pazcast.com, you can find all the episodes and follow me there.
 I'm trying to do some stuff on Twitter.
 I can't get into Twitter, man.
 I can't do Twitter.
 Like, I'm on there, but I'm not, you know, like, you have to be on all the time.
 It's like, I can't, I don't have time or mental energy.
 It's like, you know, it's like, I don't tick tock, I'm getting Twitter enough.
 Yeah, tick tock.
 I've got my guys at the agency, they're blowing that up, but I just can't get there.
 I'm just not a good dancer, you know, one thing I did want to mention before, and we
 really even talk about Greenville, but there's a little, a little fun fact, you know, before
 things went south there.
 I'm, you know, we'll leave that where it was with the EP and everything.
 But Wifey and I were actually open to looking to move down there at one point.
 Before we were still in the city, where there was a potential opportunity to move down
 to Greenville.
 I was, I've been down there probably about four or five times, and I told you this, like,
 I love Greenville, man, like it was warm, like it was great people, you know, it was just
 awesome.
 So it's not a regret, but it's one of those things to look back, I mean, obviously, I'm
 happy where I am now, but you know, everything happens for a reason, and I want to met the great
 folks like yourself, man.
 I know.
 Well, yeah, Greenville's booming and, you know, and everybody's taking a little blip,
 but it's, it's even better.
 And, you know, we, I live downtown in our office here in downtown and also, it's been
 good.
 I'm wearing my ex.
 We started the whole foundation or network thing called Greenville Hustle.
 And so we've been raising money for the community through all this.
 So, but Greenville's a great place.
 I appreciate you saying that.
 And it's been great to catch up with food.
 Hey, great food, you know, who was that baseball team the went to one of those teams?
 Drive.
 There's a affiliate of the Greenville Drive, the affiliate of the Red Sox.
 Yeah.
 That was fun.
 That's a good time, Greenville.
 I know.
 Well, let's, let's do this again soon and, you know, catch up and stay in contact.
 And I really appreciate you coming on.
 I know people will jamming, man.
 You know, love is, you know, following your journey a little bit, at least getting, you
 know, the highs and the lows of entrepreneurship and self growth.
 And, you know, some of this stuff on Gary Vee just knowing his, his growth is, is both
 I think enlightening for people that just, you know, they, they only see what they see
 or hear what they hear.
 And so, really appreciate you being open on all that.
 Absolutely, man.
 Thanks for having me on, Ron.
 All right, brother.
 Thanks so much.
 Hey, guys.
 Thanks so much to Adam Posner on this edition of the Radical Marketing Podcast.
 We will see you next time.
 To learn more about Radical, visit Radical.com on the web or follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan
 Alpert.
 Thanks for listening to the Radical Marketing Podcast.