EP.2 Mohammed Salim's Journey: Grit and Hope in the World's Largest Refugee Camp

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<v Stephen Barden>Welcome to Migrant Odyssey.

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<v Stephen Barden>In this series, I talk to refugees, migrants, asylum seekers and those who have moved countries for a better life.

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<v Stephen Barden>Some are still stuck in refugee camps after decades, some have never seen their homeland, some have never left their homeland but have been forcibly displaced by war and the destruction of their environment.

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<v Stephen Barden>And some the lucky few have settled in their new countries and brought with them skills, ambitions, new ideas and wonderfully diverse histories.

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<v Stephen Barden>Why am I doing this podcast?

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<v Stephen Barden>For many reasons.

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<v Stephen Barden>One of them is that the world is indivisible.

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<v Stephen Barden>What happens out there, be that war, poverty, drought, climate change didn't start out there in isolation and sure as nuts won't stay out there.

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<v Stephen Barden>People are on the move, some looking for safety, some looking for better opportunities.

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<v Stephen Barden>The fact that they are doing so doesn't make them less clever, less able or simply less.

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<v Stephen Barden>It actually makes them more, more courageous, more imaginative, and I hope you'll hear that in each story in this podcast.

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<v Stephen Barden>We forget that the modern day prosperous countries were built on huge waves of migrants.

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<v Stephen Barden>Some were dragged across the slaves, some came seeking refuge and some new opportunities, and today, ironically, we view their descendants with trepidation when they bring all the things we desperately need ambition, diversity, resourcefulness and hope.

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<v Stephen Barden>So, yes, this podcast is a platform to change your assumptions and a place for our migrants and they are our migrants to tell their stories.

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<v Stephen Barden>Today I'm talking to Mohammed Salim Khan, who's one of one million Rohingya refugees in the world's biggest refugee camp in a narrow strip of land called Cox's Bazaar in Bangladesh.

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<v Stephen Barden>He describes himself on social media as a photographer, and I've seen some wonderful photographs of his a journalist, an interpreter, a fixer and translator and an emergency preparedness and rescue response instructor.

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<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed, welcome to the podcast.

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<v Stephen Barden>I'm really pleased you were able to make it.

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<v Stephen Barden>Most people, Mohammed, in this part of the world certainly my part of the world think of refugee camps as sort of temporary sites with, possibly, tents and a few tin shacks.

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<v Stephen Barden>But there are one million refugees in Cox's Bazaar who have been fleeing there since when around 1978, is that right?

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<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed Selim: No 92.

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<v Stephen Barden>StephenBarden: 92 they came the first time.

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<v Stephen Barden>Okay, could you tell me something about it?

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<v Stephen Barden>Remembering that this is an audio podcast, could you tell me something about what Cox's Bazaar is like?

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<v Stephen Barden>How many camps are there?

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<v Stephen Barden>About what sort of housing is there?

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<v Stephen Barden>Could you just describe it for us?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Here, 33 Rohinga refugee camps.

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<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed Salim Khan: How many houses is uncounted, that's our biggest number Stephen Barden: and what are the houses made of?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>made by bamboo and tarpaulin, that is.

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<v Stephen Barden>And are there roads, is there sewage, anything like that.

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<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed Salim Khan: Yeah, roads yeah, Stephen Barden:-- and what about schools and hospitals and medical facilities?

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<v Stephen Barden>What are they like?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have a school here that is known from that school, so that's me.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have the facility only up to class 5, that's by NGO.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>And we have also hospitals here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>If we face any problem we can go to that clinic.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have clinic here If there is any emergencies.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have some problem, that is, you know, we are living in the biggest world refugee camps.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>The road is not easy to walk.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have lots of mountains here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>The road is not easy everywhere.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>If we have any emergency patient we have to carry by ourselves.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Hopefully you have seen also a picture that I uploaded one day ago.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So our situation is like that.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So when we come to the clinic, if the doctor thinks that we need to send others emergency clinic, then they refer and then we go to  other facilities, which is foreign.

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<v Stephen Barden>So, Mohammed Salim, there are around a million people right in the area.

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<v Stephen Barden>So how many doctors are there?

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<v Stephen Barden>How many schools are there for the entire area?

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<v Stephen Barden>Is the clinic just for your camp?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>No, no, no.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Every single camp we have clinic.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Every single camp we have school.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So the problem is that we are one million and the biggest problem is that here is prohibited to vehicles.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's why we don't got any vehicle for the emergency patient also.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So when we come to the clinic, then the doctor decide they need to refer.

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<v Stephen Barden>So you're saying there are no vehicles around and allowed in the camp, so therefore everybody has to walk.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>The thing is for only Rohingya refugee.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So who are the doctors?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Who are the injured people?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They have the vehicle, some of the injured staff also.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They also go by walk.

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<v Stephen Barden>The Rohingya are not allowed to have a vehicle.

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<v Stephen Barden>Is that correct?

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<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed Salim Khan:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Stephen Barden>Stephen Barden:What is the reason for that?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Our security is thinking about our safety.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>If vehicle is not running around camp, that is good for us.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They are thinking like that.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Security is the - security is thinking.

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<v Stephen Barden>So class 5 goes up to what age?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That is 12, 14, sometimes that is.

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<v Stephen Barden>That's when you end the school right.

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<v Stephen Barden>There's no more school after that.

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<v Stephen Barden>There's no further education.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, there's no  facilities for school after the class 5.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We do know that some  if we can,  have  an opportunity to run by ourselves.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Like here is some private school which is built by not built.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's also in Chalper which is run by community teacher.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Some of the boys and girls go there for the learning.

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<v Stephen Barden>So let's talk a bit about you.

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<v Stephen Barden>Tell me, where do you live.

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<v Stephen Barden>Do you live with your family?

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<v Stephen Barden>Who is your family?

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<v Stephen Barden>Can you tell me something about your own personal circumstances?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, so my family came in 1992 at Bangladesh when there was a brutal campaign against Rohingya in Myanmar.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Then my parents came to re fugee,  camp.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So I'm the person who never ever seen my country and the home village.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Even now I have lost my parents here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I have also family right now, so we have already passed more than 30 years.

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<v Stephen Barden>Did I understand you correctly?

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<v Stephen Barden>You said, you've lost your parents here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, I lost my parents here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They already died.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Stephen Barden: When was that?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Mohammed Salim: The reason was that they were sick and died because of that, there was not any accident.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's, what happened.

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<v Stephen Barden>and they must have been quite young, right?

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<v Stephen Barden>Is that correct, yeah?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>they were very unhappy  because they wished to  make me a great journalist or something else they were thinking like that.

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<v Stephen Barden>What did your parents tell you about the time before they left Myanmar and also their journey to Bangladesh?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>When I was ten here I made them some questions, mom, why we are here.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We are human.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I have seen a lot of people who are living around us.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They have nice houses, they can go to nice schools, they can go whatever they like.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They were very emotional and then they told me that the refugee life is like this.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>But we do not we tried  our level best to  try and stay  in our country.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So the problem was that when the Myanmar government had brutal campaign against th e Rohynga  then they got afraid too much and they also tortured some of our people.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>When they see, at that time they got afraid.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>After that they took the decision to come Bangladesh after that they become refugees.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>You should understand one thing no one wants to be a refugee.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's not so.

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<v Stephen Barden>Yeah, that's absolutely right, and the journey to Bangladesh must have been a very hard one as well, right, and it must have taken some time.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, they also shared with me that they needed five days.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They were in the hillside three days.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They didn't get any food to eat because when they were coming they just came in with their children.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>At that time my parents, we had five more children with them, so they took them and on the  road there was not any vehicle assistance,so they came by walk.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So that was very hard journey for them and unforgettable thing.

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<v Stephen Barden>You've got brothers and sisters and you have your own family now.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, I have own family.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Now I had five brothers, including me six.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So two already died also.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>One died three years ago, one died six months ago.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Now we are four brothers.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>No, it's okay.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>It's okay.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So we have separate family Because we are living in very congested area where it's not possible to stay every family member in a room.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's why I live in a shelter with my family.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>My other brother stay another shelter with his family, like that.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We are in town also Same thing.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>that is.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>have you got married?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, I got married.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I have children.

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<v Stephen Barden>How many children?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I have two children.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'm lucky, I'm a lucky father.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I say I'm  Both are girls.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Lovely lovely Baraka, baraka.

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<v Stephen Barden>What about religion?

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<v Stephen Barden>Is there mosques in the camp and are you able to practice religion?

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<v Stephen Barden>You're able to practice Islam.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So about that we are very good here because this is also Islamic country.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>For that we never, ever get any hearts.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We are okay with that.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Just a little bit different we are going to pray, to practice, little mosques  so who are the host community, they have the biggest.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's very different.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Other thing is completely fine.

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<v Stephen Barden>I'd like to talk about your work later, but I just wanted to ask a couple more questions about so the Myanmar government refused to recognize the Rohingya citizens since, I think, 1982, right, so you were stateless there.

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<v Stephen Barden>Has the Bangladeshi government recognized you as as refugees, or are you still stateless?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'm recognised as a refugee.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So my Myanmar, government, military, they have  refused to accept us as a citizenship and they're not happy to give the facilities to us like as other ethnic that is.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So is a long years.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>It's not only 92.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>It was happening Before 92.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They've been torturing us systematically.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>There was another refugee before 92.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>There was another influx.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Some of our Rohingya people became refugee since  92 since 2012 and then 2000 2017 was the big impact.

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<v Stephen Barden>Yeah, that's right.

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<v Stephen Barden>So, yeah, so 1982 was in fact.

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<v Stephen Barden>Was that right when the Myanmar government sort of completely made the Rohingya stateless right 1982?

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<v Stephen Barden>How do you make a living in the camp?

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<v Stephen Barden>Can you?

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<v Stephen Barden>Are you able to work?

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<v Stephen Barden>Are you allowed to work?

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<v Stephen Barden>How do you get money?

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<v Stephen Barden>Get money and how do you get food.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I personally, that is, if you want here the same about food.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We are getting $8, only eight USD dollar for month for a person.

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<v Stephen Barden>Let me turn some, if I may, to to you personally.

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<v Stephen Barden>Can you tell me something of your day-to-day life?

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<v Stephen Barden>I mean, what, for example, did you do Yesterday?

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<v Stephen Barden>What was the big thing you did yesterday?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, I did that job.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>There was a delegation and they also checked about my job area and they also said that I'm working as a fire safety instructor for safety rescue instructor.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So they come to my place and they also check fire safety equipment.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>They also check If there is any emergencies.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>We have some fire equipment here we use.

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<v Stephen Barden>So this delegation came from who?

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<v Stephen Barden>Who sent the delegation?

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<v Stephen Barden>Where did they come from?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's from organization where I do job.

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<v Stephen Barden>I was reading, when I was researching you, that you work preventing and investigating child drownings.

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<v Stephen Barden>Are there a lot of drownings in the area Mohammed?

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<v Stephen Barden>And why is that the case?

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Oh, that's really an amazing question.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'm happy to give the answer.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So you know we have a big problem at COVID-19.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So there is, the biggest challenge is that more than Covid infection,  died more people by drowning than COVID effected.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So this was our biggest challenge thing here, that is.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So we have tried COVID a lot so we lost few people.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Compared to that, we lost more people by drowning  here, like people, men, children, we are children and also masi at one or two.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>The problem is that we have round here, we have  little channels here, so we are living very congested places.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Our children most of the kids who found that that they shall go to school, so that's ever day that's with family friends, brother, someone else, like that.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>So sometimes they are separated so that they took the decision and go to play at that dangerous beach  area or place.

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<v mohammed Salim Khan>Then most of the cases happened like that.

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<v Stephen Barden>So do you as part of your work?

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<v Stephen Barden>Do you have to patrol around to check that the children are alright?

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<v Stephen Barden>Is that some of the work you do?

00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:27.884
<v mohammed Salim Khan>No, no, no.

00:16:27.884 --> 00:16:39.400
<v mohammed Salim Khan>What I do that is, if drowning  happen in any camp, when I get that information then I go to their parents to take the interview how to happen?

00:16:39.400 --> 00:16:49.191
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Because we need to take the experience, because here, giving support, you know share and I want so.

00:16:49.191 --> 00:16:51.639
<v mohammed Salim Khan>The two are the mother organization.

00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.657
<v mohammed Salim Khan>They're helping a lot to us.

00:16:53.657 --> 00:16:57.058
<v mohammed Salim Khan>So here are a lot of partners are working with them.

00:16:57.058 --> 00:17:09.462
<v mohammed Salim Khan>If the partner get any type of case like that and they share you know share and  because when they share then they take initiative how to prevent on this.

00:17:10.090 --> 00:17:14.362
<v Stephen Barden>I want to now turn it to something that you do really beautifully, which is your photography.

00:17:14.362 --> 00:17:28.921
<v Stephen Barden>I've seen some of your work, and your black and white images of your grandmother, for example, of the survivors of the fire and that child wading through the water in the flooding, really do say much more than a thousand words.

00:17:28.921 --> 00:17:30.576
<v Stephen Barden>I mean, they are very beautiful.

00:17:30.576 --> 00:17:36.462
<v Stephen Barden>I mean, how did you get into the photography and what are you trying to do with the photography?

00:17:36.462 --> 00:17:38.336
<v Stephen Barden>Is it because you simply love images?

00:17:38.336 --> 00:17:39.796
<v Stephen Barden>You simply love taking photographs?

00:17:39.796 --> 00:17:42.538
<v Stephen Barden>Are you trying to say something more as well with your work?

00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:50.343
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, I'm doing this for my nation because we are a persecuted nation, ethnic group.

00:17:50.343 --> 00:17:53.317
<v mohammed Salim Khan>So we are living in camp.

00:17:53.317 --> 00:17:56.778
<v mohammed Salim Khan>We are facing different types of challenge.

00:17:56.778 --> 00:18:00.297
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Every year we're fading different types of challenge.

00:18:00.297 --> 00:18:02.236
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Therefore, I take the picture.

00:18:02.236 --> 00:18:06.340
<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'd like to see the world, what is going on, our situation.

00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:14.155
<v mohammed Salim Khan>When the people see the picture, then people have all to understand what kinds of life we are surviving here.

00:18:14.155 --> 00:18:20.076
<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'd like to show our crisis to the world by my picture.

00:18:20.076 --> 00:18:21.394
<v mohammed Salim Khan>That's my aim.

00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:23.663
<v Stephen Barden>Do you send them to agencies?

00:18:23.663 --> 00:18:28.753
<v Stephen Barden>Where is your work available for people to buy or to see?

00:18:29.580 --> 00:18:44.819
<v mohammed Salim Khan>If they hear of an y  incident, then who are the media partners that write to me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, whatever  they like, they write and share.

00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:50.166
<v mohammed Salim Khan>When they like any of  my images, videos, then I share them.

00:18:50.166 --> 00:19:05.273
<v mohammed Salim Khan>There is a website named Rohingya Photo Competition, so on that website a lot of my work over there and people also sometimes go to th at  and select some.

00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:08.003
<v Stephen Barden>That's Rohingya Photo Competition.

00:19:08.003 --> 00:19:08.384
<v Stephen Barden>Right?

00:19:08.384 --> 00:19:10.209
<v Stephen Barden>You won a prize, didn't you?

00:19:10.209 --> 00:19:12.252
<v Stephen Barden>You won an award for your work.

00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.228
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, yeah, I got that award from there.

00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:16.941
<v Stephen Barden>I mean they really are.

00:19:16.941 --> 00:19:19.345
<v Stephen Barden>You should be very proud of your work.

00:19:19.345 --> 00:19:21.186
<v Stephen Barden>They really are very beautiful.

00:19:21.186 --> 00:19:26.354
<v Stephen Barden>I like photography a lot and I think you just have created some very special work.

00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:32.684
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Yeah, you want to see some more, then you should visit my Instagram.

00:19:32.684 --> 00:19:35.768
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Then you'll get lots of photos.

00:19:35.768 --> 00:19:43.435
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Also In LinkedIn I post a few compared to Instagram.

00:19:43.435 --> 00:19:48.986
<v mohammed Salim Khan>At Instagram you can see a lot of history of me.

00:19:48.986 --> 00:19:58.576
<v mohammed Salim Khan>That is where my work has been published, like the Guardian, the Business Standard, that is a local paper of here.

00:19:58.576 --> 00:20:01.184
<v mohammed Salim Khan>There's the Tribunal that's also a local paper of here.

00:20:01.184 --> 00:20:14.050
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Al Jazeera  and so many over there, and there are also some things you can see where my photos have been exhibited.

00:20:14.672 --> 00:20:22.771
<v Stephen Barden>So all the information about this Wonderful Anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to tell me?

00:20:23.661 --> 00:20:28.665
<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'd like to tell you that I'm so happy because you are also a refugee.

00:20:28.665 --> 00:20:29.586
<v mohammed Salim Khan>I'm also a refugee.

00:20:29.586 --> 00:20:48.205
<v mohammed Salim Khan>As a refugee being here trying to broadcast these types of things to make understand people about refugee life in different countries, different camps, I'm also happy that, as a refugee being here, I'm able to share my history to you.

00:20:48.205 --> 00:20:52.570
<v mohammed Salim Khan>According to that, this will go to lots of people.

00:20:52.570 --> 00:21:03.684
<v mohammed Salim Khan>So when the people listen about our life, then there will be, some will be emotional, some of - will help  to understand about our exact life.

00:21:04.326 --> 00:21:05.907
<v Stephen Barden>Inshallah, my friend Inshallah.

00:21:05.907 --> 00:21:07.609
<v Stephen Barden>Thank you very, very much.

00:21:07.609 --> 00:21:11.736
<v Stephen Barden>All the best and of course, we will talk some more at some other stage.

00:21:12.461 --> 00:21:13.465
<v mohammed Salim Khan>Okay, thank you so much.

00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:31.076
<v Stephen Barden>Today's guest was Mohammed Salim Khan, photographer, journalist, fixer for such organizations as Al Jazeera, emergency worker and Rohingya refugee in the world's largest refugee camp at Cox's Bazaar in Bangladesh.

00:21:31.076 --> 00:21:40.929
<v Stephen Barden>If you want to see or buy his extraordinary photographs, please go to his Instagram account, mohammed Salim Khan, or on LinkedIn.

00:21:40.929 --> 00:21:48.696
<v Stephen Barden>Mohammed Selim is also an award winner for his work, which can be seen on Rohingyaphoto - all one word - dotcom.

00:21:48.696 --> 00:21:50.622
<v Stephen Barden>Until the next time.

00:21:50.622 --> 00:21:51.942
<v Stephen Barden>This is Stephen Barden.

00:21:51.942 --> 00:21:54.525
<v Stephen Barden>This has been Migrant Odyssey.