Mantra: Theory and Practice of Mantra in Kashmir Shaivism | Prof. Sthaneshwar Timalsina

[SPEAKER_05]: Good morning everybody and welcome.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're very happy to welcome again this morning Dr. Stana Schwad to Malsana.
[SPEAKER_05]: The normal K and Augustina Motu in Dowd chair in classical indie humanities at Stony Brook University's College of Science.
[SPEAKER_05]: Department of Asian and Asian American Studies.
[SPEAKER_05]: He is an esteemed, traditionally consecrated teacher of Shia Vashakta Hindu Tantra.
[SPEAKER_05]: From 2005 to 2023, Dr. Simalsana served as Professor of Religious Studies and Philosophy at San Diego, San Diego State University.
[SPEAKER_05]: He completed his PhD from Martin Luther University in Halle Wittenberg, Germany, with a focus on the history of advice or philosophy.
[SPEAKER_05]: His areas of teaching and research include classical Hindu, Buddhist and giant nature and philosophies with a specific focus on consciousness studies.
[SPEAKER_05]: His first book, Consciousness in Indian Philosophy, is a comparative study of advisor and Buddhist understandings of the self and consciousness.
[SPEAKER_05]: He also works in the area of tantric studies and his recent publications, tantric visual culture, a cognitive approach, and languages of images, visualization, and meaning in tantras.
[SPEAKER_05]: Explore the cognitive and cultural domains of tantric visualization.
[SPEAKER_05]: He has published more than 80 articles, probably more, since I call this, in the areas of Hindu philosophy, tantric studies, yoga studies, and comparative philosophy.
[SPEAKER_05]: In order to disseminate philosophical knowledge distilled from the various Hindu schools of thought, he launched the Vimasha Foundation in 2019, which hosts free semester-length courses on classic texts of the tantric tradition, and offers many free videos and written teachings.
[SPEAKER_05]: The subject of his talk today is Mantra, a talk on the theory and practice of Mantra in Kashmir, Shaivism.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're so happy to see you again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Satwara, Panchakornya, Punara, Pichatura, Soda, Saga, Hishikaam, Divya, Stau, Murti, Madhday, Hase, Kapara, Kala, Bindu, Puspa, Kamudra, Balam, Kaumara, Vridham, Paramashiva, Kala, Wakra Devi, Kramaram, Sri, Natham, Tandrapurya, Dawana, Wakalitam, Yukma, Vedam, Tussaram,
[SPEAKER_02]: Trening siddha vatharam prathamaka liyugay kongka licha dhikaram teshambai putrasesya navapurusakramet teshumadhya dhirastav santanam kotravindam kramakadasakalam shodasantam kramantam seshavai mandalani paribramavimalam pujasadvahavavindam
[SPEAKER_02]: A-da-was-ta-da-s-an-t-m-k-la-k-la-k-la-m-d-l-th-han-a-pur-b-m-s-s-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-k-ram-tri-ram-
[SPEAKER_02]: Madhya Vishrama Bhumi Prasara Manu Bhagavam Pratayam Swadika Aram Samsrishtham Yer Natasmai Namate Guruvaram Bhairavamsri Kuleyasham Samsrishtham Yer Natasmai Namate Guruvaram Bhairavamsri Kuleyasham Namaskara.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm easy, gave me an assignment to speak on mantras.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just doing my homework.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I understand the objective was to not just go into theory, but also to touch the practical domains, because mostly when I have come here,
[SPEAKER_02]: I am dabbled into all these lofty philosophical concepts and sometimes I get concerned whether we are actually delivering the practical dimensions of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes I also take it for granted that this is another society, all that is there is to know and nothing is to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in real life, you know, this, you know, already everything formula does not work and we need a path, we need to do things from our part, we want to do things, even if that doesn't result in direct knowledge, we don't want to feel helpless from our part, and I believe that the practice of mantra
[SPEAKER_02]: may be the means to connect to that absolute that the Adwaita Vedanta is teaching.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in this regard, I find one of these teachings immensely beneficial because for most scholars, they are focused on demonstrating differences or only focusing on one particular brand of Vedanta.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you all have been familiar to Swami's discourses are on your own, the fusion of Kashmiri, Shivism with Hadoite Vedanda.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while the title, Kasmiri Shivism, which I personally do not even agree, we should call it a trickashivism, because all the masters use that way, and in the later time we have used this category, but not historically, sounds lofty, but most of the contents that
[SPEAKER_02]: is disseminated throughout hand-in-gian culture without these titles.
[SPEAKER_02]: What Ramakrishna Paramahamsa practiced and brought to life is not just the cable or adwaita of pure realization without love in her, without devotion to the mother, without
[SPEAKER_02]: If you can accommodate Kali inside or do it at the Ananta, you have Trika Syivism.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all we are saying here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, I will try to get into my topic without diverging into philosophical concepts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will introduce them only to understand the domains of multipractes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to start with the premise that that's one idea that the absolute is always present there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do not originate the absolute, it is a jata.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something that originate.
[SPEAKER_02]: is temporal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything that has beginning has an end.
[SPEAKER_02]: This true knowledge of the self has no beginning because anything that starts is born is destined to end one time, is terminal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Brahman is not terminal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore Brahman has no beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: Realization is also not
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the philosophical condition, we got that, everybody here knows that, but how to get there?
[SPEAKER_02]: After waking up, we can say the nightmare was not even real, but when we are undergoing through all those dream experiences,
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the course there?
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the mechanism there?
[SPEAKER_02]: What practices?
[SPEAKER_02]: What can we do to get to that singular reality?
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing Trika Shibisam said is rather than checking the approach of this all is not real to get to that absolute.
[SPEAKER_02]: It goes one step further and says, you know, when we think back,
[SPEAKER_02]: limited terminal finite modes of reality are the expressions of this all-empowering, ever presence, spontaneous, free consciousness itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, nothing to negate, nothing to embrace, that truth is always there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is also the path to get towards that, no negation to the path.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is both the philosophy of the goal, also, of the path.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would like to limit mantra discourse within that context.
[SPEAKER_02]: Historically, we have these concepts of the mantra coming from the Vedas.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we want to understand some concepts,
[SPEAKER_02]: In the Vedas, what happens?
[SPEAKER_02]: Agnimi, de purohi, tam, jajya, devam, rittijam, hota, ram, ratna, dahata, mam.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the most ancient of the Vedas, the Rig Ved begins with the Him to Agni.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is the invocation to Agni.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Vedas is Agna, ayah, he, vita, he, please Agni come here.
[SPEAKER_02]: One and another and after that, next, all these mantras.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are used as invocation in the Vedic ritual.
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually chant these mantras and agnais.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, how we make the falibation into fire.
[SPEAKER_02]: In later Sanskrit, we use the words like amantrana.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nimantrana.
[SPEAKER_02]: for invitation.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mantra word is there, you know, ah, mantra, anah, mantra is there, ni, mantra, anah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's like mantras were invitations, like in the very beginning, mantras were invitations to particular deities, you are such and so please come here, please accept my offering.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some interesting conversations happen around 2000 years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were philosophers like Jaymini and Yaskar.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they started arguing things that most of us don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, these Mimamsa philosophers were not too enthusiastic about God.
[SPEAKER_02]: creator God they didn't believe in like some kind of creator they believe creation as a self-sufficient.
[SPEAKER_02]: The least you expect from the Vedic philosophers you know they were not atheists they believed in devils devils were not some almighty entity for them but who were these devils?
[SPEAKER_02]: These debas were invited with the mantras, they come and rejoice among us, and then fulfill our wishes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the domain of mantras in the beginning, not like for Nirvana, Moksha, Kaivalya, those ideas slowly evolved.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the Vedic context, when the Vedic people are making these offerings, Agnaya Swahah, and then these philosophers, they can't have it without straight forward things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They said, how many Indra's are there?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just one Indra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's invited.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where to go, we're not to go, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't prefer, okay, if there is an inviteing, I'm not going to go elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll come here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But God's cannot just do like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was not just a simple question for them, because what is the point of sacrifice?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the king is doing this sacrifice and a proper is doing this sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Should the king in the God go to the king's sacrifice or go to the beggar sacrifice?
[SPEAKER_02]: They took it lengthy, you can see 40 pages of conversation on who it was he go.
[SPEAKER_02]: They came to the conclusion that Montro-Vay Devata, meaning it's not a body, a person somewhere in the heaven.
[SPEAKER_02]: The deity is the mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: You utter it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You articulate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is present right there in front of you in the phonetic structure.
[SPEAKER_02]: in the sound, and it receives immediately everywhere the mantra's are chanted, the deities, then is it produced?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it is manifested.
[SPEAKER_02]: It comes to emanate at the time of utterance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you do not utter, they do not die.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just go back to their potential form anytime, anyway, if you properly invoke, if the mantras are thoroughly articulated, they manifest themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this changed a lot in the field of mantra because before the deities were outside and mantras were like prayers to them, but now mantras are the deities.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mantra, Vai Devata, mantra is the deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then the new concept evolved that if mantra is deity, then it must be alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they started viewing in mostly later Vedic time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that became very prevalent in the Trikashai before philosophy.
[SPEAKER_02]: That mantra is the deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not the words.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the living entity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Living breathing entity, that you can annoy, you can taste, and then the issues came like a prana, like the giving life to mantra and mantras giving life to some entities like a shared truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, all the deities are brought to life by the use of mantras, that mantras being dirty, mantras now are deities that they are so powerful, they act on their own, they are not tools to make someone happy, they are there, you could deploy the mantras for all the magical purposes, but then it went one step further, what would happen if the deities
[SPEAKER_02]: is articulated through you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the deity inside of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, we slowly go to the non-dual fall.
[SPEAKER_02]: It had to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are historically tracing to the rise of this non-dual understanding where you become the deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Swatma and then when we come to the trigger and instruct the form of the trigger, Swatma iva devata progta lalita vishwavigraha.
[SPEAKER_02]: You yourself are the deity, the goddess lalita triprusundari of the form of the trotality.
[SPEAKER_02]: So because the goddess means the trotality, and you, if the deity is inside you, when you order the mantra, the mantra is in you,
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you are that deity in the body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the embodying deity type of concept slowly develops in this non-dual pantry philosophy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because one of the things that has happened in this European studies of Hindu philosophies is
[SPEAKER_02]: They like to see almost like a tension in all the ideas.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like one of the things they have created categories, is like a Vedic versus Tantric.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are like enemies, you know, arts and images.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are just the opposite of each others.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, and then all you give this type of category to think through and then you start to, you know, that next gen already takes that premise as it for granted and then they continue to think.
[SPEAKER_02]: you will find tremendous connectivity and a continuity in the Vedic, orally Vedic philosophy to Tantric philosophy, on interrupted change.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I even argue that maybe orally Vedic philosophy is closer to tricker schibism than the philosophy of Shankaracharya that denies the world, the external expressions and considers the whole thing as a projection of obedience because that notion
[SPEAKER_02]: At the center of Vedic philosophy, the world was an expression, the Purusha, A.V., the Gumservam, Jadvutam, Jadjavhabbim, Uta Amritat, the S.A.S.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: and O.Jada, N.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tirohati, you know, from the Rigveda itself, the Purusha.
[SPEAKER_02]: Many of us are these members, it's self to become many, the world is the body of God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this concept, we find prevalent in the philosophy of Ramannuza, in the Vedanta front, but the same thing we find in Abhinavogutta, in the Trikarshaivism.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this idea was not somebody, mode, idea was developed by some esoteric,
[SPEAKER_02]: The totality, as the deity expressing herself or himself, is a concept you can find also in esoteric Buddhist and giant traditions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning how did this concept become pan Indian if it was not already there in the early literature?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I believe that type of historical notion survives through and through in transit literature.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, let me go back to Tantra, or I mean Mantra because I don't want to get carried away.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the mantra is derived from the root Munn and throw is a suffix.
[SPEAKER_02]: Generally, they have this etymology of manana and trana.
[SPEAKER_02]: Manana is to think, to reflect, and trana is to protect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Manana trana, dharmiro, mantra, what the tex say is, mantras are the devices to protect you by means of contemplation.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you contemplate upon them, they protect you, how what is the protection we need from, protection we need is from self-negation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Self-negation is for mantra, from the mantra perspective, you are the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are Shiva.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we are negating our shiver nature to 99.2, keep putting the numbers whatever till you have almost infinity because we have accepted the being consciousness and even the possibility of bliss within this skin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while I am the totality,
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not willing to experience my ever-present-a-false nature.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am willing to experience my presence within this skin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that feeling of the totality demands that self-consciousness transcends this bodily delimitation, bodily determination, meaning
[SPEAKER_02]: to discover, it's not to find, to make, to rediscover our ever-presents, all-embracing totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mantra's devise through the mind, because minus is also from the same root mantra and the mind is the same root.
[SPEAKER_02]: You put the mantra now into the mind, the minus
[SPEAKER_02]: transforms into mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: From the trigger perspective, as long as we are conditioned by the body mind and the ego, we are three different tiers of subjectivity, I am willing to either
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can call technically sakala, beginner-kala and pro-layacala.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is just a lofty vocabulary for describing the same thing that I'm still limited in my ego or in my cognitive field, the activities or within my body.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as soon as I liberate my ego from within this epidermis and Ella, because the mind is free to float around, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can sometimes imagine myself to be outside of my body or what if I am him, you know, mind allows a lot freedom than the body.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then that expansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mantra pushes the boundary of this mind and throws from this finite limited ego to slightly immerse a new form of consciousness that itself becomes mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mantra Mantra Shora Mantra Maheshwara are these three another highly evolved categories.
[SPEAKER_02]: body centric ego to fully evolve.
[SPEAKER_02]: So mantra is in between our total rise.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you start mantra now, because the first model of mantra as prayer is going now.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it now, you become the mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you become mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go to Nepal, particularly up the mountain areas, you will see these llamas with their money, this is the rotating wheel and money payment money, they are saying money, pardon me, I'm Sanskrit and
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all they do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Constantly, there is no inno beginning, like a wheel, constantly going on and on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the same practice, don't worry, you are inclined to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the, just another word, you know, just the word, oh, Namashiva, I, oh, Namashiva.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me tell you, how, when you know, you have become the mantra, if you repeat that
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you'll get to the point that you want to forget it, when eating, you want to forget it, when going to bathroom, or you don't want to think of the mantra, when you are asleep, you walk up and the mantra is running, you walk up in the morning, in the middle of the night, mantra is running, meaning your mind has for that moment when this non-stop position is going on, you have transformed into mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have become mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is when we call mantra jagriti, the waking moment of mantra mantra, ortha and mantra chaitan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then what do you need?
[SPEAKER_02]: You need two additional factors.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have passed on the homework of repeating insane amount of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: My Guruji used to say, if you do one Purah sarana in your next birth, if you do not liberate in this life, the mantra will come to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the first thing I did, you know, I want to just make sure this happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I say, there's a keep counting one million times.
[SPEAKER_02]: So at least that's what it's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it's taken for granted.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not know whether after Jethi's concern or not, but one thing for sure, that I don't need to sit and remember these mantras.
[SPEAKER_02]: when I'm alone or stressed or when waking up or in the middle and then I can see that chanting never stops.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I have come to the conclusion that the brain is not a single processor.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are multiple processing happening simultaneously.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you repeat mantras too many times, this mantra is constantly vibrating, resonating, within the deeper layers of your consciousness, and it has created such neural synopsies that does not alter or erase so easily.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does create a basis of foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then,
[SPEAKER_02]: You became robotically chanting man these days everybody wants to understand so what is the point what is the meaning I don't know the meaning of the mantra
[SPEAKER_02]: And am I just parenting most people object to this type of teaching?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, don't disrespect the parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to understand these things, we have understood a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: This imagination, if we had achieved one percent of the transformation of the amount of understanding we have had in this journey in our spiritual life, where is the transformation coming?
[SPEAKER_02]: what is the progression coming?
[SPEAKER_02]: How can we measure actually our progression?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we feel the mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: The mantra comes when you are actually doing more powerful mantras like Kalimantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then if you are repeating different mantras, then you will know some mantras are more powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we know that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Power is like not to do some magic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Power is
[SPEAKER_02]: they're deep on your mind and do not let you think anything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you need to be a normal human being, you need to go to your university, do your job, or whatever you have, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have to say again, you just wait for a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then you see it's a different dialogue now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are trying to practice the mantra is practicing through you.
[SPEAKER_02]: You find mantra's subjectivity, mantra is now awakened inside you, but still, I do not have the meaning of the mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the point?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: to understand the first and the last word, what does this mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a little coded.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first in Sanskrit for name is or, and the last in the Sanskrit for name is her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the mantra, there is this aham Iyam.
[SPEAKER_02]: I consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: The task of a guru is to retain that eye consciousness within you to inflame it as if like you have this like a igniter, but you don't ignite it, it's no use.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just, what a guru does, it's just, you know, it just ignites it and then the flame comes out and this aggression is,
[SPEAKER_02]: to recognize eye consciousness in every single mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: When forget the external cocoon, external shell, the words that we share outside, go deep into eye consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: And not just everyday eye consciousness, now this transformed eye consciousness,
[SPEAKER_02]: that envelops your totality, it takes you from this finite body-centric consciousness to all embracing totality that it becomes as if the sixth limb.
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes you up to this floating like, you know, you go with your dive down and then there's the air bubble and you just float up the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: that is when mantra chaitanya has occur, but I still do not know the meaning of every word.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's a valid question, but what I'm saying is it is, what we think is most important is the least important in the practice of mantras.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is more important than?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'm uttering, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, whatever, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this is very, very speed,
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea was already in the way that Zatwari Vakpari metapadani.
[SPEAKER_02]: Zatwari Shrengatraeu, as Shyapada, the idea of forefolding speech is already in the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But from parts of the area, particularly Abinabha Gupta and Trikashayivism, this forefold speech became prevalent.
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea of mantra
[SPEAKER_02]: is it has to go to monon to reflect.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the as long as we are articulating outside, it is only working in the external corporeal level.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we go to a palm shoe like a little wish pairing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just feeling in your throat and then we want to take deeper to our heart and then you just see the mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is why you see, what am I saying?
[SPEAKER_02]: You are repeating, but you are not repeating with your tongue.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are repeating, you are seeing the mantra in your heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you see the mantra, you become rich.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Rishi is all concept and nowadays people like that title or not, you know, we have all these weird ideas of some, you know, came in about Rishi is, you know, but the Rishi, the Rishi, you know, mantra drastara, the definition of Rishi is the one who sees, Rishi is to see, the one who sees the mantra is Rishi.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a good thing to orient the status of Rishi Hood in this life, in this body.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not very difficult thing, just sit in your meditation, and when you are able to see the mantras without your effort, constantly, articulated, you see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not here, not real or tongue, but it's a sea.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not seen with a flesh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Forget the title is a social identity.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter whether someone considers you rich, you live your life, whatever you are doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But rich, you hold, allows you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is when we start seeing the mantras.
[SPEAKER_02]: One thing happens, there is a spontaneous pulsation of speech for something beyond sign and reference
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is when you become mantra drastra, you are not just repeating a mantra, you don't have to say, this is mantra, this does that, but you, the mantra you start seeing, because there's mantra are infinite, Vedas are infinite, knowledge is endless, you start tapping into such insight.
[SPEAKER_02]: This should be a good way for working on creativity, where does creativity begin?
[SPEAKER_02]: creativity begins in that scene of the mantra, that inner pulsation in the mind that you are able to tap into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Knowledge is constantly pulsating, self-revealing, nobody reveals knowledge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like nobody reveals the sunlight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Knowledge is constantly self-revealing, but only few people can tap it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does matter in which discipline, because every knowledge is rationalist.
[SPEAKER_02]: So who is able to tap it, who is deep enough to go into Pashanti, the deepest level of speeds, and he is able to bring that wisdom, bring that knowledge back to Wikari in our commonly expressed language, he has become a Rishi, we have to understand
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not deviating from the original intent.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just clogged that with a lot of cultural haze and we forgot the original intent of the concept that it's a universal notion.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this monopractice, y-sotrality, y-going-deep, y-not-wish-paring, or there-on-one-anybody-to-here, these are all these cultural anthropology, you know, it's meaningless.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are not trying to understand why these things are practiced in this way.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, one more step then.
[SPEAKER_02]: then someone says, there should still have some meaning, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Our mind is always meaning-oriented.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are we so meaning-oriented is it is easy to have the sign and reference relationships so we can look at things when the orskum we relate to it, don't, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem with mantra and sign reference system is it immediately exact reality outside of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mantra has to do the transformation within you, sign and reference.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, reference is always outside of you, and how will the sign and reference best system ever help you realize yourself?
[SPEAKER_02]: You are not outside like walking up there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can help you recognize the body as an external phenomena, but it will not help you recognize those observing, witnessing suck she's self.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, because Mantra has to work within the level of suck she.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we devise the mechanism of we call Somaya Chara, actually, substantial amount of work comes within Sankara's lineage, whether or not Adishankara wrote these ideas, but there is one Shubagodesh, to the for example, and their Sondriya Lahari.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, some of these works have stressed on Somaya Chara.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Kashmirishivism, Artrikashivism, has already given plenty of philosophical foundation to develop this system.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the text like Yogini, Riddayam, we get to this six-fold meaning of mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's say how they even explain the meaning.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bhabartha, Sampradayartho, Nicarvartas, Cokolika, Tathasarvarha, Syaartho, Mahata, Tuartha, Evacha.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, then now, finally, okay, Bhabartha, that this word means this, this word means this, a little bit, sign and reference type sister.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then, Sampradayartha, the meaning,
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not just saying only Guru Noji, what we are saying is if Guru has actually practiced that mantra and recranded its energy by receiving this particular mantra from him, the mantra,
[SPEAKER_02]: gets awakened quickly or easier.
[SPEAKER_02]: My Guruji used to take me to different teachers and I hated that because I loved him and I didn't know these people and I don't want to learn from anybody else but then he comes from no, you have to learn, particularly this is a guy who has done only Taral for all his life.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for that practice you should listen to this mantra from him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some things are rigid within the linear.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I will instead of going one after another and checking another four hours, I'll just give you an example of how it works.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have a deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say Tripura Sundari, she has four arms and Pasha Angusadhanus Bala that she's carrying arrows and a sugarcane bow and she has a good and a rope, she has this is one of the most commonly distributed images, her main shrine is in Madurai and everywhere these days.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: The mantra, her phonetic structure of 15 phonemes is now equated with this body.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I do, I articulate the phonemes, and the figure has to come to the fore of my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I create a relationship between the sound and the vision, relation number one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what I do next,
[SPEAKER_02]: then there is a yantra called Sri yantra, a nine triangle yantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I do the same thing, I articulate the phonem, and then I establish the same relationship with the yantra, and then when I repeat the mantra, the yantra has to come to the fore of my heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has to come to presence.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I have two references, the phonem's, I'm articulating,
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, the deity image right there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what is the deity?
[SPEAKER_02]: The deity is the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: I cannot just have some woman in front of me and say, this is my deity's present.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I have to see that deity, the image in front of me, as the totality, all the categories from Shiba to all the every single thing that they're, I have to now double up.
[SPEAKER_02]: within a single press of consciousness, not counting all 36 tattoos, but I'm able to now see all the tattoos as equivalent to the body present in front of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number three, now I have to see my own body as a distilled form of the yantra and the deity
[SPEAKER_02]: this body has to dissolve into the body of the deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I become the deity.
[SPEAKER_02]: You all have heard the stories of Ramakrishna.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to go in detail what he was doing now.
[SPEAKER_02]: You, your bodily consciousness transforms into deity consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the deity consciousness and your body consciousness and the yantra consciousness becomes the consciousness that permeates the totality and degrade your guru awareness.
[SPEAKER_02]: How does meaning work in the antipractice?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how it works.
[SPEAKER_02]: The goal is to transform,
[SPEAKER_02]: your bodily and mental presentation into the totality and then use the mantra as a device to visualize.
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, we have substantial amount of visualization, imagination required.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, somebody would ask a question, this is all imagination or authenticity, consciousness,
[SPEAKER_02]: Then the tantric answer is this is yet under the fantasy, this is a finite fantasy, that's the infinite fantasy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just learn how elastic the mind is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mind is now limited to create only this much as a real mind will tomorrow be boundless to create a totality within itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you will recognize at that moment, you are infinite, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are all inclusive, shiva consciousness at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what happens then?
[SPEAKER_02]: Kavaliyavi, Shaviyapa, Anubhui, Kavi, Mantasadat, so this is Maharashtra, and Maharta Manjiri, one of the tantric works, beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like what is the meaning of the word mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the feeling, it is the experience, not the world, but your consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: What type of consciousness?
[SPEAKER_02]: The type of consciousness that circumscribes the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is not a limitation in terms of sign and reference, but this is the consciousness that she is everything present as the same divine present in mediates of forms.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is seen God present in every single leaf and every single dust particle and every single living heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is recognizing our own being constantly pulsating through every single heart, every beat of the heart is the beat of soham that I am, that beats in me,
[SPEAKER_02]: Every word, the entire cosmos is vibrant, replenished with this pure sourcing consciousness, and that is self-aware, this whole totality, kind of decindels within my being, and that is what it becomes mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Manana Mahee, Nijav, you have when it expands, it becomes, it involves in the form of contemplation, Nijav Sankoi, and then what happens when the mantra condenses itself as comes to this frozen state, then it is object oriented, goal oriented, that is, ba-ammitana Mahee, it protects from fear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Baya, what is Baya?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did the Yadwai Baya Mbawati, in the Upanishad, we know fear comes from the other, when we see difference fear begins, the same person, I knocked the door the first time I come and Diane, is like, who is this guy?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm like Sahara Priyana and there is a guy coming to come today and then oh, this is must be, are you in a professional team on cinema?
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no fear, there's no weird kind of feeling, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: The whole fear, no, it's like, look, it's like living in America.
[SPEAKER_02]: America is just most powerful and most is scary country in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just fear from the strangers, you know, everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is the fear from the other.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not able to see the other as my ordinary expression.
[SPEAKER_02]: my word in pulsation and then as long as there is this total separation of the self from the rest of the world fear arises.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can mantra ever protect you from fear when the other is not the other, but the very expansion of your being, there is no fear, we are never scared of ourselves, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the other becomes an extension of ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: We feel comfort, we feel like long lost family coming back home.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is this sort of singularity of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't need to be just some theory in some remote, monastic practices.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be brought to life.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can exercise this in our everyday monthropractors.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we'll need a few examples.
[SPEAKER_02]: So where is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: How is it taking then?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because now let's go to how we create reality and how mantra helps us transform that reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing we need to go to the very notion of reality is to what extent it is composed by language.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we are so used to thinking that the job of language is to describe what is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we all know that language does not just describe what is out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know that language often times creates reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: How does it create reality?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me give you two examples.
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone asks you, are you hungry?
[SPEAKER_02]: You say, no, and then you are not upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are not insulted.
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone ask you, are you stupid?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't, I can't, I mean you could just simply say no and then I can just say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I've got, well, why is there a job done?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like a thing, so the person asks, are you stupid, and then why are you upset?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the word meaning, you know, the meaning is not anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: You see, the it created a new reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's a, it was not just about referring to what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't describe the phenomena.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we will look at the new realities that language creates.
[SPEAKER_02]: beyond sign end reference.
[SPEAKER_02]: The sign end reference is, add you hungry and use stupid.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so we know the meaning of the word, we are not, not job done.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but it is not how it works in language.
[SPEAKER_02]: Language creates a new reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: Beyond sign end reference.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we check this idea a little more seriously.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you go how realities are shaped in different cultures,
[SPEAKER_02]: How emotions are educated in different cultures?
[SPEAKER_02]: You will realize that language is not just about representing, but about creating.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are taking a liberty of that aspect of language, not just a representational model of language, but the creative domain of language to come back to our own consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: and to work through language, to reconstitute, to reshape our own consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are perceably shaped by language.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not actively shaped by language.
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning, we learn language, we get educated, mostly indoctrinated, whether in school or colleges, and then churches or temples, we are told to become something.
[SPEAKER_02]: What we do not have is the freedom to check that language back and take it to its heart to the core of where does that cell construction begins to go to the core of the ego and use that language as a device to reconstitute yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: He calls to you to not end the image that somebody else wants, but I cannot you reconstitute within the image of the totality that you become the possibility itself, like a replenished with possibility, filled with possibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: You become everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Language allows you to deconstruct the given ego,
[SPEAKER_02]: to really imagine your own subjectivity and to reach this cover yourself without language, you are nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even when Guru Shaita taught to Amasi, you are there, you still need that language.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is not just a description because then you already need something in front of you if it is just a sign and reference because this world has to take you to the new knowledge.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does new knowledge mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning the reference you did not already have.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can, if you simply understand this best unsignant reference, it's just like you said, this is a cow, the same way you are that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is that?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not something you can indicate.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not an object.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can never objectify the Brahman.
[SPEAKER_02]: So therefore this, even this diplomacy has to work through the same mechanism of the mantra that it has to go and reconstitute your ego and it has to allow yourself to dissolve the pre-deban ego, the same process that it has to work in this rediscovery of the self as the totality, and that is how mantra is supposed to work.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is what we call the shop, the top, what the absolute truth adds such thought to add such in the form of speech.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, in modern philosophy, they have argued posterior and all about the written word, but says the speech and all the conversations on logocentricism and this is like all the gender history and every single thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What we have felt is like,
[SPEAKER_02]: written word, you know, we have to give prevalence to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will still go back and argue for the articulated and lived embodied domain of his speech.
[SPEAKER_02]: The speech right out in the book has nothing, no value.
[SPEAKER_02]: it has to live within you.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you see the way this practice is done, so do you, I mean, if you don't know the tradition, then maybe you do, but if you want to practice mantra, you don't just go and Google, let me find some mantras, you know, you want to know who has practiced this.
[SPEAKER_02]: If it is about correct information, maybe Google might have better information today than many teachers.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not about the veracity of objective.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it is about the lidsness of the speech that resonates from the heart of the teacher, to the heart of the disciple.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do not consider the power within that objectified world, but the power within looped world.
[SPEAKER_02]: The word is lived by the master.
[SPEAKER_02]: Resonated in his heart is transformed through his feet articulated in the heart of the disciple.
[SPEAKER_02]: Many people, you know, have so many of his students, they like to see their highly evolved category of, you know, yogic practitioners.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they are not cut out for these small practices like mantras, because they have this, you know, already their data realization and all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't blame them, because, you know, sometimes their data can give a very inflated ego.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is not just one layer in which mantra works.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a three-up highest means in the trigger system.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the on-bu pie, no pie, no pie, no pie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's not even talk that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the first is the on-bu pie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going through the on-bu one.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Your ego is finite within the body, or the mind, you are elimited being.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is our most common experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: So within that, you repeat the mantra
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like when I said you get to the level of the mantra itself, meaning you become the mantra, or meaning when you think of yourself, the mantra resonates, or you cannot always control the mantra, mantra keeps falseting through you in your heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have gotten the status of the mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that number of a crack has,
[SPEAKER_02]: You articulate, you have the external mantra, external GAT, all these external objects and subjects relations, all these you have tracked through, you have gotten the first step of undercover practice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody can see that okay, in this level, beginners can do mantra practice, but I don't think it can go for higher level, like a shakta or sambaba, but wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the shakta, what is the shakta upaya is a purely deeper contemplation to retrieve your consciousness from the field of objects to your consciousness, even transcending your ego or subjectivity.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as we discussed the mantra practice as slowly goes down to passionately level, that is what we are doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not doing a sign and reference word and meaning thing anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are simply taking the word back to resonance itself to pure consciousness itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And mantra, it doesn't matter which mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: any of the mantras, we are taking that back to the pristine heart of consciousness and then it is working through Shaktavupaya because it is the mantra as an object, first you start from and mantra becomes the subject already from objective field to the subject domain, you have brought mantra back from the external field to pure consciousness and that is when mantra becomes the
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you see the mantra itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no temporal order even.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even the long mantras, they just start appearing in a single flash.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is no succession.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no krama.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there is no ego, there is no subject and object, mantra, we both subject and object at the same time, and that flash of self-consciousness in which the totality is circumscribed, you get to the Shambhava Upaia.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need the method for how to work in summer.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it is not how it works in real practice.
[SPEAKER_02]: In real practice, this very mantra can check you.
[SPEAKER_02]: You start from under by state of simple routine life, you know, repetition this many times.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the focus has to go deeper rather than being intellectual and you know, finding all kinds of weird meanings for every word,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this will never help you go deeper, you know, that's why I'm saying it may mean all of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't matter, but when you use this template to go deeper to the core of your consciousness,
[SPEAKER_02]: at the in the mantra manifest as a totality, akhanda meaning a fracturless, non-dual singular, partless.
[SPEAKER_02]: This akhanda author, the meaning that is, there is no separation between shop and art, meaning word and the meaning.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it becomes this non-dual expression of the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then whatever Barthiyari, you know, he was a great yogian, he wrote a philosophy of grammar, and most people just think he's just a grammar, he was a great yogian.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when he's teaching philosophy of language, you know, he says,
[SPEAKER_02]: Shabda purva yoga, he says that what he's teaching is Shabda yoga through word or speech.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this Shabda yoga, how does the Shabda yoga work?
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, Anadhi, Nida, Nambrahma, Shabda, Tattam, Yadak, Sharam, Vibrat, Tate, Havena, Prakriya, Jagatoya, Tahah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This Brahman, that has neither beginning nor an ending.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is of the character of speech, Shabda, Tattva.
[SPEAKER_02]: The truth as it is, is self-pulsating, self-bibrating, be marshal, the word, it's self-referring consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what shop there is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just expressed word, but the shop is the inner resonance wherein the ego, the self-bibratory, it needs one, two, one.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Akshara on Decaying.
[SPEAKER_02]: That we were that day.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were that day is not a false manifestation.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were the Akshara in about that evening.
[SPEAKER_02]: It manifests in the mid-year of forms, infinite forms.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at these infinite forms of speech, manifesting, speech resonance, this vibration, the whole,
[SPEAKER_02]: word, you know, there is a book called Spanda Curry, that from the trigger system, this is the essential teaching of Spanda pulsating, the doctrine of vibration, then following this philosophy, the entire totality is pulsating.
[SPEAKER_02]: From the atomic subatomic level to the gigantic cosmic level, from our own finite, embodied, lived state to every social structures or conceptual structures like government, or society, or all these abstract concepts, everything is pulsating vibrating.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is of the character of Shab Data.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have created so many new realities, like President govern, government, market, stock market, dollar bill, all these are worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not like the rock, you know, even if you do not call the rock or that thing will still be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you all the society stops using the word government, there is no government, you know, it's just not a substantial thing there physically out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We create reality on top of reality and only the physical thing is real, that theory doesn't work, because where we live in in our everyday life, our own constructed reality is not any less powerful than the physical mass that physicists like to call as a real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our reality will live in this two-fold reality, the reality of the tangible world and the reality of our own creation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our own reality that the reality we create with our own construction is the construction by means of language.
[SPEAKER_02]: You take language out, there is no construction.
[SPEAKER_02]: language is creating this whole reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: The reality that is out there is not the reality that is hurting us, the reality that we have constructed is the reality that is hurting us, the ego, the finances, the life and the death, all these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: That we have tapped into our own ego, power, money, richness, our social relations, family relations, spousal relations, all these are our semantic constructions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our language has allowed us to create these realities.
[SPEAKER_02]: this is what is hurting us.
[SPEAKER_02]: The house there as such is not my problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I go there I assume this is where I have rented for my I had I had that experience go to Hawaii you know this is tricked me into renting an address that doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and that is the reality that hurts, the house is not a problem, the only problem is the reality that was sold to me, that is the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, our, the problem side of a human reality is,
[SPEAKER_02]: the very human construction that human construction is by means of language and what can we do to reprogram or to deconstruct that program that program language is we need a metal language.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need a reprogramming.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: How can our consciousness reprogram our reality?
[SPEAKER_02]: We cannot just reprogram the external reality.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is like revolutions in Nepal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time since the government changes the constitution and expect something is going to happen, you need to reprogram your ego.
[SPEAKER_02]: the people, the person, the way we think about ourselves, collectively and individually, as long as ego is not reprogrammed, it doesn't matter how many times you try to re-adjust the external reality, it is not going to work out in relations also in national and international or personal relations, it is always the same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, do not take mantra as some kind of prayer, we sit and do sometimes, but my final point is take mantra as a mechanism to re-engineer the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do I mean by the whole thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing is me, the ego, that I, what I believe I am, is insufficient, or totally insufficient.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to expand it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to get, I need to grow up, like a little child, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, this growing up has gone the reverse way because before the rise of the mantra, the finite limitation, the infants do not have that delimitation of the ego within the epidermis.
[SPEAKER_02]: the more we cultured these kids, the more small they come out to be, the more egocentric they come out to be, and so we have to deculture them and reconstitute the ego and the external reality will
[SPEAKER_02]: reconstitute in the same process.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like go arising through, like Nagarjuna said.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the external reality core rises in relationship to my own ego, my own subjectivity.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I am willing to transform my subjectivity,
[SPEAKER_02]: the way I see reality starts changing, stops its power basically, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do we make a real progress through mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there are different types of mantra coming back to again the core notion of the mantra, like some true drama mantra, you have you do this mantra and then something magical happens, some healing will occur or or
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are these Mahamandras, and these are the most standard system developed during the time when all these contemplating practices were just in their rise.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is pen in the tradition, not just limited to 3K Shiba only, because most of them utilize the same original protofelacophate that already existed in the Vedic time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We tweak a little bit here, tweak a little bit there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we were to trace back, even historically, it is very insightful, but for many of you, if you are interested in some references, I also have two or three entries on mantra itself for brilliant in cyclopedia, another small entry on Shakti, and then there's a book by Padu and Repadu and Vaj, VAC, really good book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always recommend that.
[SPEAKER_02]: book by Padhu, but as Diane was kind enough to say about B. Marsha, I have started B. Marsha with an understanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: I repeatedly going back and forth to Nepal and India with an understanding that there is so much of change and some is good but a lot of cultural appropriation and
[SPEAKER_02]: control and or misrepresentation and I just thought not that I am the best one to represent the system that is too egocentric to say that, but the best of my ability I realize that I need to do it, I need to make it available to everybody which ever the family they are born into.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's see, let's hope we can take this further.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then we must have some time for Q&A.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I stop now so that we can give more time for conversation?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate it again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to have as much as conversation as time allows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please, I'll take first question there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we have the microphone.
[SPEAKER_07]: Actually, that was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_07]: My name is Hani.
[SPEAKER_07]: I come from the Sufi tradition.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think mantra is not only panic, but really universal.
[SPEAKER_07]: And your talk really resonated a lot with what I hear in our own tradition about Zika, which is our practice.
[SPEAKER_07]: But become a universal practice that brings
[SPEAKER_07]: all traditions together to deepen that understanding.
[SPEAKER_07]: My question is slightly unrelated, but closely linked, and that is around music, and what role
[SPEAKER_07]: conjunction with mantra, if at all, both being based around vibration and sensation and using that as the unique to achieve the same goal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course, yeah, the universal domain of mantra are something different, name called indifference culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very nice thing to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we call music?
[SPEAKER_02]: One, using external device and another using your body, yourself as the device, one is singing and another is playing loot or whatever other instruments.
[SPEAKER_02]: They developed, now coming back to mantra context, they developed in the context of mantra practice itself in the Samoveda, the first original these seven notes of music, what in India, we call Sari, Gama, Padhani, these seven notes are needed for proper articulation of Sama.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the external loot vina was a depiction of the human body and whatever the human body tongue can articulate these seven notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The external loot was supposed to articulate or express those very notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the external body or this this is the living breathing being consciousness and then the external loot.
[SPEAKER_02]: were to correlate actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in this correlation, where is the mantra working, mantra is supposed to work in different resonance.
[SPEAKER_02]: not just the repetition, but there are therefore two different ways for the mantra chains like when in some cases we are only articulating the words, but in other cases like when you are doing ohm ohm ohm ohm but then there is a ohm you know a proper or and giving a different stations for the articulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: How does it work towards transformation?
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the research now being done in the field of musicology we can relate to that in the practice of meditation because neither yoga.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nada yoga, the yoga of Nada sound resonance, is the key to connect these external music horns to the inner sound transformation.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the yogin, particularly during the Nada yoga development, they take to the extreme, they develop the concept of no one or the nine different resonance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the 10th soundless sound, the absolute
[SPEAKER_02]: Sound of no sound is what you are supposed to reach by means of hatha, the struck sound to anahata on struck sound that is the blood coursing through your veins and you can hear if you close your ear drums not now because I want you to listen to me but when you are on your own.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, this type of sound resonance it can go deeper and deeper more and more
[SPEAKER_02]: and that opens up a different thing, number one, the meter, chandas, the Vedas always follow a particular meter.
[SPEAKER_02]: but not just the Vedas, even the tantric mantras are invoked in the beginning, this mantra is in this particular meter.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these are the same meter, by the way, the Vedic or the tantric.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the Vedic mantras in particular, you can clearly see Gaya tree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now there's, you know, Gaya tree mantra, everybody, the Gaya tree is a Gaya tree, originally is the name of the meter.
[SPEAKER_02]: a particular way of chanting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that very particular way of chanting became so prevalent and it became the Goddess.
[SPEAKER_02]: We forgot it is a name of the meter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Guy A 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, all these different names of different meters, the particular ways of chanting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then what did they discover?
[SPEAKER_02]: Really early on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like before Bharatas, Nathashastra, before the beginning of the common era, that we can see that they were familiar with this raga and al-Apa.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they say, what does Raghad do?
[SPEAKER_02]: They define the Bhairavi Raghad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can chant understood meter into different Raghads.
[SPEAKER_02]: The same meter, you sing differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it has a different psychological, psychosomatic effect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bhairavi, more vibrant, powerful, early, early.
[SPEAKER_02]: So whatever the other Raghads you are chanting into will,
[SPEAKER_02]: create different moods.
[SPEAKER_02]: In tantric temples, therefore, in the morning offering and the evening offering, they always play different dramas.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, the season wise, when you are making the offering to the deity, in the spring season, then there's a different ragas being played.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we have,
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a particular note to play it and then we know the surgery to like the wind and our rata, you know, we just had a month ago and when it begins then all the temples start playing the same raga and then you know this is the beginning of the autumn.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is based on seasons also based on mood, based on time also.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the resonance has a real psychosomatic effect
[SPEAKER_02]: not just the power of articulation, but also the ways they are articulated, they affect our domain of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have questioned down there and then they
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much a challenge for a great lecture, so you started with telling us how mantra takes us to a non-new awakening, but we all know that mantras, how they are performed are basically a devotional worship expression, so I want to bring it back on how mantras
[SPEAKER_03]: going all the way to the non-dual awakening can be also used for bhakti yoga in the right way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, what has happened is there is not just one particular mantra, there are infinite mantras, there are some mantras that we are supposed to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it is a lot of things happening due to I am against those lot of practices happening here.
[SPEAKER_02]: conservatively speaking, because there are some mantras that you are supposed to articulate on your own and go inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are mantras as a device for meditation, but there are other mantras they are supposed to be used for chanting as a kirtan.
[SPEAKER_02]: not that didn't just happen today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Giti meter goes way back.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are supposed to be sung.
[SPEAKER_02]: The word Gita in common Indian languages means sung.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why where comes Gita?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a book of singing, Ram, Gita, Ishwar, Gita, you know, Guru, Gita.
[SPEAKER_02]: All these are to be sung.
[SPEAKER_02]: So all the understood meter, the particular tundas, the meter in which these things are written.
[SPEAKER_02]: this is again in the meter that we are supposed to articulate out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we do to misunderstand what is happening is when we try to use these whole phonetic structures into mental visualization.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a guy, a tree is also to sing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tatsuvitur varay, Nambhagodhavasya, Bhimahi.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you have a mantra, like expanding 5, 7, 9 letters, you are starting practice, you can go very easily.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were to do Tatsuvitur varay, Nambhagodhavsya, Nambhagodhavsya.
[SPEAKER_02]: you can meditate on it without any difficulty.
[SPEAKER_02]: But even within these 24-4 names, your mind will be divided in three places already.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there is a break.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a bit of a random verb.
[SPEAKER_02]: But God, the Evasya, the Emaid, there is a break, and the break mind, the deviant.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: There are some that are meant for just inner verbalization and there are others that are used for singing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sobbed, they are for singing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again there, you will find some that are not just supposed to just like you can use NAM for example, Kirtan.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can use NAM only for inner resonance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It goes both ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, therefore, it depends on, sometimes a length, sometimes a meter, but mostly the way it is mandated by the Guru.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, therefore, what is so unique about mantra tradition?
[SPEAKER_02]: I should say that, that it is not just about the information appreciated in some remote past.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is lived, therefore you have to have a Guru.
[SPEAKER_02]: lived, it has to be lived through.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's the Guru knowledge, again given by Guru.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that is where as Esprescribed by the teacher, you have to do accordingly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, thank you for the great talk, um, name is Rotheet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my question is around, um, if you could talk a little bit about how when you do Jappa and Chan your mantra from different chakras, like if you focus on the hard center of your chakras, that's all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: How does the impact of the month or change?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to most of you have done the Mandu Kekarga with Swamiji.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so in that, I'm sure you remember waking consciousness, dreaming consciousness, and deep sleep consciousness in the heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so waking consciousness in the Dr. Lakshmi, Vishwa, Vishwa, Taisesha Pragya, if you still remember those categories.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the waking consciousness, generally when you are awake,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a prefrontal cortex, okay, let's forget the doctrine action, okay, we show that is too technical over for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just I just say prefrontal cortex and it will help you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So your waiting consciousness is determined by language and that is where you're when you think of yourself, you are focused up here around here and then
[SPEAKER_02]: When you take it a little deeper, you go to your thought area down around this, you know, we shoot the chakra area, and then maybe even anata area.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is when you enter into dreaming state, that's where all the dreams are made.
[SPEAKER_02]: When consciousness drops down a little bit, and when consciousness rises up from this throat area to the eyebrow area, you wake up.
[SPEAKER_02]: when consciousness drops down from the eyebrow area down to the throat or the little chest area, and then you go to this dreaming mode of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: You already have different chakra there,
[SPEAKER_02]: what if you could take down to the pulsating heart or even below to the monipura area, you know, to the naval level.
[SPEAKER_02]: Within that, there's another particular district that is that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a roughly within that periphery, within that region.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the speech suddenly stops and you go to this deep sleep state.
[SPEAKER_02]: can you retain mantra even in deep sleep?
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you go to deep sleep state if you retain mantra?
[SPEAKER_02]: My Guruji Swami Kaptar Baba said that this is because I was like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although he was he passed away at 114 and he maintained his practician sardanas all the way through.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can
[SPEAKER_02]: check about Kaptar Baba, I'm not telling you some stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a historical being, you know, he has books left behind.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I used to ask all the questions as a boy, all the rude questions, every single thing, he was very generous to explain.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm like, you are an enlightened being.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you sleep?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the questions I asked him, really, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you sleep, then you are like me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also sleep and come to illusion and dream.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like self-awareness and the mechanisms of the body are not the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: The body needs its limited amount of slip state,
[SPEAKER_02]: and dream state.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a mechanism for the body to maintain itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't mean that you have to lose yourself or awareness.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that state, so what he said is like, you go to basic the mechanism is as taught by God or Father, is just to go even to the deep
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he uses only Om as a mechanism to explain waking, dreaming, deep sleep, go to Pada, you know, I'm talking about go to Pada.
[SPEAKER_02]: He uses mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he says going to the Turya state, the resonance as the fourth, the Turya state, he actually is not philosophizing things.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a deep practice going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the practice?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we are just always thinking, oh, ma, my Guruji taught me to go or you are sway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like I, you know, already who is down there in the arm.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you are feeling in your naval area more like a race.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it just takes you from waking consciousness to dream like consciousness, to deep sleep, consciousness, and what if you were to take it further deep into pure being of resonance,
[SPEAKER_02]: You are in this paratha, the fourth speech of the vats.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no sign and reference.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is no subject and object.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a singular consciousness, non-dual realization, right there by the very articulation of home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is how we take mantra from the external form or the different chakras to mostly subtle form of the mantra and then inner resonance to beyond the resonance, to pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does help in that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Down there,
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for the inspiring discourse.
[SPEAKER_06]: So many of us here initiated a mantra diksha.
[SPEAKER_06]: And you please advise and elaborate on how we can reach the state of mantra jagrithi or japa or japa where the mantra continues unseizingly, even when we are engaged in complex intellectual tasks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, that's a very practice oriented question I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things we have to check on face value that if you go to these states, these awaken, we have this fantasy driven ideas that you go to somebody and then you are done and you know you are enlightened and all or otherwise you are just doomed.
[SPEAKER_02]: this is not my experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we keep fluctuating.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my experience is like you are the loving person and then also sometimes the very nasty guy, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is the same way that
[SPEAKER_02]: we go through these deep realized modes of consciousness and then float out to everyday modern states of being.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, having said that, how can we use knowing the mechanism of mantras?
[SPEAKER_02]: How can we use for going into this deeper level of consciousness?
[SPEAKER_02]: One, of course, to understand the mechanism of the mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because most of us have understood this is mother, I'm going to repeat it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we have strong predispositions.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have some carmic predispositions.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to do certain things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what we are doing is we are, now, Bhukta Hakshi, Yate Karma, Kalpa Koti Sattaira Pee, as long as you are not able to consume the karma, it is not going to vanish by your wish in a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: you have to find the means to resolve the tension within your heart of all these historic army accumulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And once we start addressing that
[SPEAKER_02]: Only then, mantras, it will be easy for the mantras to play through you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, post what happens, we are bringing the mantra.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are trying to domesticate a tiger.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why, most people, you know, I do kali and then you can see they go kali, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, why, why does that happen?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you do not know how to,
[SPEAKER_02]: drop this ego to surrender to the being presence of this mantra and then we are using it to control ourselves, repeating and repeating the more you repeat, I've managed to then saying, Acharya Ji, you give me this mantra and I repeat it and it makes me really angry.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very sincere student.
[SPEAKER_02]: I acknowledge sincerity in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is it happening?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there is such strong army pull and the person has decided, no, I don't want to be carried by the army pull.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you have to figure out two things needed.
[SPEAKER_02]: One is the sumata pacification, how to
[SPEAKER_02]: Come or cool down those predispositions and simply mantra may not be able to take care of everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: One is you are doing Sravana Mananani Didas and our contemplation on true nature of the Self.
[SPEAKER_02]: The more we hear these Vedanta teachings, the more it gets easier to not be able to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: be too determined for all these things that we want to happen or against, we are against happening because all our anticipations and predispositions give us tremendous frustration and our habits are made based on our some scara predispositions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we have to work through some scaras and we cannot broaden every single thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: to the mantra practice alone and then one mechanism is the process of philosophical contemplation realization.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another is a simple specification process and another is also fulfillment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm up to because from the Tantra perspective we do not believe in repressing all your expectations and dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to see, we only explore what is right fully weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: The original ethos of the
[SPEAKER_02]: For purusharta, the Dharma, art, karma, moksha, you make order, you prosper, you, and then karma, you fulfill your desires.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we are simply trying to get moksha and then saying, oh, I don't need art, I don't need karma.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we are built that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: This body is built that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our ego, our subjectivity is built that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are acting against our nature, the way we are made.
[SPEAKER_02]: Either we have to have such realization that the process through which we are built,
[SPEAKER_02]: we transcend it or if we are not so strong to you know the deviate the entire mechanism through which we are made we surrender we drop our practices collapse why do they collapse because I want this I want that and then I also you know like so many things I want I want to
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be a billionaire and I want to be much powerful guy and by the way, I also want to go to heaven or become enlightened, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is, when self-realization becomes yet another criteria, like, you know, what the bucket list, you know, it's not going to work out.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we, I mean, truly speaking, if in our heart, there's just one single bucket list of liberation, then there's no conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not the case with all of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have NG patients.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we have to act towards realization, actualization of some of the most
[SPEAKER_02]: acceptable horns of those anti-specens and desires.
[SPEAKER_02]: Accepted modes of embracing those desires and fantasies.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we deny everything for us,
[SPEAKER_02]: and say, mantra is everything for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is like, you know, bitter melon, like somebody comes to our house and then we offer one little bit of bitter melon.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all you can eat, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: When you, if you are offering so many different dishes and that can be really good food, if somebody knows how to cook those things,
[SPEAKER_02]: But I bet otherwise, you know, this bitter is bitter, the world is a bitter melon, you need to know how to cook it, you know, and it can be okay, you know, it can be tasty, it can be so much, I have two questions there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think we are going out.
[SPEAKER_02]: One last question, because you gave me all the order to last.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll take one, one, one, one, one, one, one, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Prashan, the word or the sound, oh, me is very mystifying for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the most of the mantras I've learned in my childhood, where everything starts with the ohm, Namashivaya, our ohm, Namorian, Tharnang, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you just guide me a little bit on that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did we put this om as a singular resonance?
[SPEAKER_02]: There are many, many, many theories, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people are also giving, I got one video recording of the sound of the sound itself, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, those are not my understandings.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is, one single sound,
[SPEAKER_02]: In which we shall?
[SPEAKER_02]: the totality of sounds dissolved within this om, we say all the phonemes come out of this are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so are dissolved within this om, within om the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is why in the Bhagavad-gita om tatsat, itinir deso brahmaras trividavita.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are three words om and tatsat and then we say, this is the totality, the synonyms for the totality.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are using home, how many different ways we can use to visualize the triad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything in home is a triadic structure and the transcendence, or Uma.
[SPEAKER_02]: what is the meaning?
[SPEAKER_02]: It can mean anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to say waking, dreaming, deep sleep consciousness, you want to say the gods of creation, sustenance, disillusion.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to say the rig and you and Sam or three Vedas, or in whatever structure you give, our consciousness first adopts a triadic structure.
[SPEAKER_02]: to relate to the world, subject, object and their relationship, because OM can relate to every single triadic structure and its transcendence.
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore, we have used OM as the most common sound and actually for all the Dharma traditions, like Hindu, Buddhist, giant, shake, all these traditions, consider OM as the sacred world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know we have to stop on point and thank you everybody for your kind presence and engagement and so we should stop at that point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much.