Sipping Wisdom With Kyle Cooke: Balancing Stardom and Start-Ups

 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 I'm Ryan Alford, your host of your number one marketing and business show on Apple
 podcast.
 What a thank you for that.
 What are you doing today?
 We say it's radical.
 We cover it.
 Uh, this is about as bad as it comes, especially on the entertainment meets D to seek e-commerce
 side.
 We're a star at Bravo TV show Summer House and the CEO of Love or Boy, that sparkling
 heart.
 You can't miss Cal Cook.
 What's up, brother?
 Okay.
 Good.
 Thanks for having me.
 Hey, man.
 How we never.
 Hey, just live in the dream, brother.
 I'm going to dream a South Caca Lackie.
 You got it.
 I know.
 You're a man hat and I understand.
 So, yes, my old something grounds holding it down in NYC, baby.
 Yeah.
 Is that always been home?
 No, I, well, got at this point, I guess, tightly I'm in New York, I grew up in New Hampshire.
 You know, I thought if you had a two car garage, you must be super filthy rich.
 So very modest, you know, middle, middle income kind of upbringing, been in New York since
 2007.
 I moved down here to join a college buddy of mine to do a real estate startup.
 And aside from two years, a business school, get my MBA, I've been here.
 Yes, it's 2007.
 Hey, there you go.
 You're definitely a New Yorker now.
 I think, uh, it's 16 years makes anybody, uh, just whatever they are.
 Yeah.
 This way you don't get on the side of, uh, of, uh, life and business and everything else
 you're transitioning from like startup to businesses and everything else.
 I know we'll get into that.
 But I mean, everybody's, I, it's not even a guilty, I don't even feel guilty about it.
 But I think everybody's like pleasures, reality TV.
 Like, so I said, like, coming through our age, like, you know, it was so big coming
 up.
 You had all the MTV shows.
 You've had all these, the Kardashians, you've had everything else talk, walk us through,
 I think we should start there with just that journey because I'm sure people watching
 are listening, you know, no, the name of the face, if they're into the, the show, anything
 like that.
 But I'd love to just understand that journey.
 Yeah.
 I think even just kind of talking about the guilty pleasure aspect of it.
 I think I would say pre Kardashian era, pre influencer, you know, creator era.
 It was looked at as like, why would you do this?
 You must have a joke of a career or no career at all.
 If you're going to put it all out there, you know, and just do it for fame, right?
 And I think the Kardashians kind of change everyone's attitude towards reality television.
 And, you know, I think it's just so mainstream now that it's no longer a guilty pleasure.
 It's a pleasure.
 You know, people openly talk about it.
 You know, I have guys that wait in line at these meet and greets to say hello to me.
 And I don't think there'd be a guy in sight 10 years ago.
 No one would admit they're watching Bravo 10 years ago.
 So yeah, it's been, it's been a wild ride.
 And I mean, look, I, I originally looked at it from an opportunistic standpoint.
 I'm like, listen, this is, this is a captive audience.
 This is how you build a platform, how you build a name for yourself, how you launch
 a new age brand.
 And it just so happened that the concept was already a variation of what I was already
 doing.
 My friends here in New York, we all do different things professionally.
 We pull our money together, we rent a house in the Hamptons and we go out every single
 weekend or at least some of the weekends of the summer and you kind of, you know, pin
 ball back and forth, back and forth.
 And that, that kind of summer house or share house lifestyle is something that a lot of
 people can probably relate to, particularly if you lived in New York.
 And it wasn't that novel of a concept that turned into a television show, but the Hamptons
 aside from, well, speaking of Kardashians, they did some shooting there, obviously real
 housewives of shot there, but there's never been a show that's truly like based in the
 Hamptons that has stood the test of time.
 And you know, I think that's, that's kind of where, where we are today, you know, we
 just filmed season eight.
 I think what energized the network about our show was, it was about it existing group
 of friends.
 The real world Jersey Shore model where you put a bunch of strangers that are hand picked
 to be polar opposites and basically fight like that model has been done.
 So how do you evolve it?
 And I think that's kind of what we do with summer house.
 Yeah.
 It's how did it like, how did it manifest?
 I think people always want to know like, maybe I'm sure you've told the story before,
 but for our audience, like, how did it come about?
 So I was working on a nutrition startup.
 It was pre-launch, spending every spare dollar I had to my name, you know, on either
 renting out in the Hamptons or building my app and a buddy of mine that, that I went
 to undergrad with, forwarded me this casting email.
 And he's had a house in Montauk since the 80s.
 And I think his Ford had, his sister had forwarded to him.
 And he was just like, dude, if anyone's going to, you know, have a role in like ruining
 this town forever, it should be you.
 I was like, what a compliment.
 Yeah, thanks, but I think, thanks, but, you know, I was kind of at that point in my career
 where I'm like, all right, if I do launch this thing, acquiring customers, yes, the
 number one challenge, the number one cost, I don't have a boss.
 I could use a free house like all these things kind of like spoke to me.
 And I'm like, hey, there's a very rare chance this will go anywhere.
 But I went out to the initial casting, it was a one man band that hired a casting company.
 And nothing became of it.
 Months go by, you know, the, the audition tapes changed hands to some more seasoned producers
 and they were like, listen, if we can tap guys like Kyle to go round up their friends
 and we latch on to an existing friend group, we could probably sell this to Bravo because
 there's something there.
 And that's when I kind of got more involved and more interested on my, listen, if this
 is the real deal, if there's actually a shot in hell that this actually makes it the television,
 it's worth me putting in the effort.
 So, you know, I kind of worked hand in hand with those producers, essentially September
 through June.
 What year was that?
 This is 2015 into 2016.
 Yeah.
 It took about nine months to kind of, you know, work out the kinks, get the right people
 in front of the camera and then, you know, work with the network to figure out how the
 hell to shoot a show like this because Bravo, I mean, yes, there's, there's some surveillance
 camera footage in like shows I below deck.
 But nothing to this extent, I mean, every room is Mike, it has a camera with infrared
 technology to RoboCam so you can get a lot better quality than the little GoPro's they
 use in below deck and, and yeah, you know, it was just next thing, you know, end of June
 of 2016, I'm getting mic'd up and I'm like, my God, I cannot believe this is happening.
 So and that was season one and it was shot in 2016 and it aired in two one of 2017.
 So one, if for listening business audience, like Carl is a good businessman and recognized
 that, you know, gaining customers is difficult and you have to pay to get in front of, to
 get reach and frequency, a lot of audience seen a lot of times.
 And so whether he was selling underwear or hard spike cider or fitness equipment, he
 knew that getting in front of that audience, he could talk about or build his personal
 brand up with which to then market any product.
 I'm putting words to your mouth, Kyle, but I'm reading him in the lines for how does
 works, right?
 Well, thinking of this way, when I graduated business school was 2011 and one of the expressions
 that a professor said over and over again is cash is king.
 I think that's kind of changed to content as king.
 And I say that because you don't need cash to create content, but every company needs
 content to acquire customers.
 And so sure, my cheat code was was a Bravo television show.
 But back in 2015, streamers, you know, the Netflix, the who lose the Amazon's of the
 world, hardly existed, there was probably two or three shows on Amazon at that time.
 And so today, people have many more options at their fingertips, right?
 I mean, you can launch a behind the scenes show and you launch your brand on YouTube.
 And again, content is king and Gary V says it all the time, every company needs to be
 a content company.
 And so that's the takeaway here is like, oh, you know, you could truck this off as like,
 oh, this guy's got a TV show, unfair advantage, et cetera, et cetera.
 I saw the opportunity, yeah, I put in the work.
 But you can do that on any platform, not cable, but maybe YouTube or TikTok, you name it.
 And that is exactly right, Kyle.
 That's why I respect the hell out of what you've done.
 And it goes back to you went down the, you started to go down this path like when reality
 TV started, the social media networks did not exist or did not exist in the form they
 are now.
 So you had to rely on TV is the distribution channels for the content with revolved
 now is you've got TV.
 And in many ways, TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter are like stations in
 a way.
 Like there are other distribution platforms, right?
 So the last thing I'll just say on this topic of kind of content is king.
 I heard some crazy statistic that something like 9 out of 10 podcasts uploaded to Apple
 or Spotify or whatever, never see a second podcast.
 In other words, people put out a podcast and never follow it up.
 So whether you're trying to make a TV show or you're trying to get your TikTok or your
 YouTube or your whatever channel up and running, you have to put in the time, right?
 Like I put in a year's worth of, you know, work before we even shot a single frame of
 summer house.
 If you think about going all the way back to the original casting.
 So everything takes work.
 And I think it's really easy to throw in the towel if you don't go viral, you know,
 your first or second stab at it.
 So that's the last thing I'll just say is persistence and drive and commitment is needed,
 you know, no matter what you're trying to do.
 100% with that.
 I've told that story many times with our very own show here.
 Yeah.
 First 49 listens were all my mom.
 So, and then now we get 1.5 million a month.
 So it's like, yeah, I mean, but it's been five years.
 So it takes time.
 It doesn't happen overnight.
 Before we get into some more of the business and how you've kind of part laid the show.
 Talk to us about the reality of like summer house and now winter house like this, like
 what's that like?
 Like tell us to give us the real nitty gritty.
 Well, I think the reason why people are obsessed with it is because reality television is a heck
 of a lot more relatable than almost any other, you know, medium, whether it's a TV show that's
 scripted or a movie or, you know, a game on, you know, professional athletes or a concert
 with a professional artist, reality television, the beauty of it is like, world is normal
 people.
 Sure, we have our, our screws loose and some people are more dramatic than others.
 But I think the relatability factor is this, the secret sauce and from there, it's, well,
 it's relatable because it's a little more organic and a little more authentic than watching
 something that's scripted.
 And I think that's, at the core, like every brand wants to be authentic, every brand
 wants to have, you know, organic look and feel and pull within custom, you know, within
 the consumer world.
 And I think that's what lends itself to being such a powerful platform.
 Now, as for what it's like, I mean, look, I quickly forget that the cameras are running.
 You know, our show shoots 24-7 right through the weekend.
 You can't sit there and think about what you're going to say.
 You can't pre-meditate anything.
 I mean, I'm sure some people do.
 But you got to kind of live in the moment.
 It's one of the very rare occasions where none of us are on our phones.
 You're present and you're just kind of living in the moment and reacting, you know, and
 sure.
 Sure.
 It's a, there's a lot of alcohol involved in our show, which kind of proves my point.
 We are not thinking about what we're going to say, that'd be literally impossible.
 But when you're filming it, it's fun.
 I mean, sure, you can have a bad day, but it's a fascinating process.
 Obviously, we shoot exponentially more hours than makes, you know, the air.
 And so I love watching it in its final version.
 Because I'm seeing things I wasn't privy to.
 The way Bravo shoots, we do these interviews where you have an opportunity to kind of reflect
 and have a little more self-awareness than you would in the moment.
 I mean, there's all sorts of kind of little kind of hidden gems that make the way Bravo
 does it just so, so good for consumption.
 Yeah.
 I mean, it's really hard to describe until you see it and you're in it.
 But, you know, the producers are, they're not, they're not telling us what to do.
 They're not trying to tell us what to say, but they are moving things along.
 Because if you have a big night out, you have a big blowout fight with your friend.
 The next day, it's not necessarily human nature.
 You just go right up to them and confront them and talk about it.
 The producers are there to like, hey guys, I know you'd love to just chill about a pool
 and nurse your hangover and avoid the elephant in the room, but that's not how you make
 its television show.
 And that's, that's kind of the key point of what I was going to say is like the, you know,
 people talk about like when you think about social media, like the cringe, I don't like
 seeing myself on camera, you know, like I'm, you know, cringe where they like, this
 is everything times a thousand.
 And so did you, I'm sure you just had to, and everyone on it, you have to just immediately
 get over that, or is it still tough to watch?
 No, I mean, look, don't get me wrong.
 I mean, my, my TV, TV debut, I was wasted in a hot tub with, um, Stasi from, from Vander
 Pump, because our show kind of spun off off of the Vander Pump franchise, um, because we
 had like an organic connection with that cast.
 And so Stasi and her friends came to the Hances to visit.
 That's where we came in and the next thing you know, you're watching the summer house.
 And my first, you know, a couple of minutes on television, we're really embarrassing because
 I was absolutely hammered.
 They took their pretty little time to make their way to the beach.
 We were already hammered on Rose and by the time I got in that hot tub and tried to make
 a move, I was embarrassingly drunk.
 But, you know, you, you kind of, I guess I got that out of the way for that of the gate.
 Um, I don't have any issue watching things back.
 I mean, sometimes it's very cringe, particularly if it's not just me, maybe it's, you know,
 my relationship, but it's, it's all part of kind of what we sign up for and sure some
 people are going to handle it better than others.
 For me, I kind of wear it all in my sleeve and, you know, I definitely try to be in touch
 with, you know, my feelings, my emotions, all that mushy shit.
 You know, I think that's actually what makes casting guys challenging a lot of guys are
 like Teflon.
 Yeah.
 And they're not in touch with some of the more vulnerable things that make them a dynamic
 individual and dynamic enough to be casted.
 Yeah.
 Amen.
 The, uh, last thing I'll say is about that is like, how do you balance, like, I just
 think about it.
 I know it's just like that short weekend, but to live, you know, work hard, play hard aspect,
 I mean, does the play hard getting, getting in the way of the work hard sometimes?
 Oh, yeah.
 I mean, I, I joke, but let's say it's like, yeah, you work hard, you play harder during
 the summer.
 Yeah.
 And look, it's been a grind, we, when we film, it's not just the, not just the weekends,
 right?
 Like Friday morning rolls around, you usually, you know, drive up to the studio.
 They go pro your car because it's a three hour commute and they want to capture some
 of that build up to the house.
 Yeah.
 And, um, and then from there, it's, you know, 24th, 24, 7th through Sunday, then you
 get a drive back home, which is often three hours, and that's nine times out of 10 off-camera,
 thank God.
 But I mean, gone is your free time, gone is your time to decompress during the weekend
 or during, you know, your Sunday.
 And then to make it even more challenging, they want to capture some of our life during
 the week, working, going out to eat, grabbing a coffee, catching up with a bud.
 So we have to make ourselves available.
 Usually it's Wednesday and Thursday, depending on what's going on.
 Yeah.
 And we often don't get that call time until like the day before or the day of sometimes.
 And so I have to tell my team, hey, you know, my schedule on Wednesdays and Thursdays has
 to be somewhat valuable because you never know when we get called in to go film something
 for a couple hours.
 And then once the season's all done with, you know, we have these interviews ever a couple
 weeks to help connect the dots.
 There's press commitments.
 And then when it airs, that also is a distraction.
 Yeah.
 So, so factor in Winterhouse, which is a condensed filming schedule, but it's a crazy,
 crazy two weeks.
 And then there's still obligations, you know, once you've wrapped.
 And I got even in 2022, I shot a third show.
 Called the Traders for Peacock.
 So I, you know, I have very little bounce, but, you know, I've yet to start a family.
 I'm trying to build up my nest egg.
 And, you know, no one wants to hear the pitty story of like, all Kyle's busy because he's
 shot three TV shows and runs a company.
 It's like, this is what I signed up for.
 So, you know, no point in complaining.
 You know, is it ever, do you ever fall in love with the, you got to love the process,
 you know, of it all?
 And it's like, I think either love it or you hate it.
 And if you hate it, you, you probably don't last eight seasons like you have.
 I mean, that's all I can imagine, right?
 Yeah.
 I think, look, like one of your questions before we started rolling was just say, hey,
 is it the same cast?
 And the fact of matter is, in no world would you be summering with the same people year
 of a year of a year?
 I mean, half my friends that I met in Montague don't even live in New York anymore.
 Yeah.
 Some people are married.
 Some people have kids, you know, plans change.
 So the show is kind of evolved to take that into account.
 And look, some people are unbelievable, you know, individuals, but like maybe they just
 aren't cut out for TV.
 Yeah.
 So we kind of, I think I chalked my staying power up to just, hey, I'm not in the same place
 I was eight years ago, thank God.
 And you know, I'm evolving for better for worse.
 And you know, we're able to kind of capture some of that.
 And I'm hopefully slowly, but surely giving hope for all mankind that guys like me that
 once a lot of time are like scared of commitment and we'd use their job as a means of justifying
 why they're not in a relationship.
 And guess what?
 There's hope.
 There's hope.
 There is hope.
 I think it's a perfect transition to a lot of hope, a lot of hope in lover boy.
 Yeah.
 Everything's riding on lover boy.
 I hope it's not a strategy, my friend.
 You got strategy.
 I know it.
 I see it.
 That's why you're on the show.
 You're on a lover boy.
 How did that come about?
 And how's it fucking doing so great?
 Yeah.
 Well, like I said, when the original casting opportunity came up, I was working on this nutrition
 app.
 And I did a little research about Bravo.
 It's like the number one rated network among women on cable television.
 They're a little more affluent, educated than a lot of other audiences on television.
 And guess what?
 Who controls the disposable income of most households, women?
 So all these things kind of check the box.
 And then when I looked at what I was focused on, which is nutrition, I was like, I bet you
 a large percentage of the audience that watches Bravo wants to look good and feel good.
 And nutrition is a huge part of that.
 And I looked at what people were spending on fitness and how much they were neglecting
 on the nutrition front.
 I was just like, I'm going to do something about it.
 What I didn't understand or appreciate is that that would be nearly impossible to bring
 the life on camera.
 I built the nutrition app where you connect with a coach.
 There is nothing about that that is TV worthy.
 In fact, when I would try to do something to showcase what I was working on, they'd
 be like, well, we need something visual.
 Can you do a workout and then talk about the nutrition app?
 So we would shoot that half the time, it didn't make the air, and the times it did, people,
 like, after the fact, thought I had a fitness app.
 They were like, no, after I made the kitchen, it's nutrition, it's nutrition.
 So all this while when there's confusion and disinterest and challenges in bringing this
 venture of mine to life, everybody was asking what we were drinking.
 What's the rosé?
 What's this?
 It's hard tea.
 The heck is this hard sensor?
 And it was like the opportunity was staring me in the face.
 99% of alcohol products don't even have a nutrition fact panel or the ingredients listed.
 Here I am talking about the importance of nutrition.
 And we're drinking products that once I did a little research, we're absolutely horrible
 for you.
 I actually felt bad telling them the name of the hard TV we were drinking on the show
 because it was just full of sugar.
 Everyone's trying to cut out sugar Monday through Friday.
 Why would you just drink nothing but sugar during the weekends?
 That tasty margarita that's frozen coming out of the machine, full of sugar, go figure.
 So the opportunity was staring me in the face.
 There weren't that many hardseltters at the time, but I was just like, this is going
 to change how people think about drinking, because there's a nutrition fact panel,
 eating ingredients, it's light, it's refreshing, it's an alternative to beer, it's an alternative
 to wine and spirits too.
 But all these hardseltters kind of tasted the same.
 And I looked at the fact that there was only one hard tea that had mass market penetration
 and distribution.
 And it was the same brand that had a change in 20 years.
 And I realized there was this theme in alcohol.
 Alcohol's like 20 years behind the rest of food and beverage.
 And so I was like, why create another hardseltter if I can create the first premium, better
 for you, hard tea?
 And that was essentially the inception of loveable.
 It was, hey, online hardseltters, we're going to use better quality ingredients other
 than just natural flavors like Le Croix or a white claw, we're going to use better quality
 ingredients.
 But just because you're getting more flavor doesn't mean you're going to get all the calories
 and carbs associated with some of the traditional hard teas, hard lemonade on the market.
 And we've kind of filled this little void and continued to kind of dominate it in between
 like a hardseltter which is kind of underwhelming but better for you than the alternatives.
 And then this like full sugar, full flavor experience to those and you're, you know, you
 basically have consumed more sugar, you know, in that sitting then you're supposed to consume
 for the entire day.
 Yeah.
 So longer boy, we started with our sparkly hard teas and then we realized my god, look
 it, how much sugar's in an opera all spread.
 So like how much sugar is in the espresso martini?
 We started building out these other product lines to fill other voids we saw in the marketplace.
 Brilliant with the show.
 I mean, everybody wants to know what you're drinking, you know, like it was the perfect,
 like influencer campaign within the TV show, right?
 Yeah.
 Everyone's like, how are you guys partying this much and like waking up and doing it all
 over again?
 I'm like, well, first things first, drink lover boy because our sparkly hard teas have
 zero sugar and sugar plays such a big part in why you feel like absolute crap the next
 day.
 And you go into the, you know, your Monday work week feeling like all the gains you made
 from eating clean and working out were completely lost and it's this vicious repetitive cycle.
 And by cutting out sugar, I mean, my god, it's like we eliminated those vicious hangovers
 and I just got this question down in Dallas.
 I was at a pool party, though, so I was thinking, and people were asking me like, how do you
 do it?
 And I'm like, I drink these, you know, and you're loverable.
 Yeah.
 Drink your own product.
 How's it?
 What's the answer to neural generally been like?
 I know it hasn't been all roses.
 I mean, it's tough, right?
 I mean, you've had and made some really smart decisions, obviously switching to this product
 having the TV show, having, you know, that built in influencer base, so to speak, but
 sure.
 I mean, look, I, I feel like I've been an entrepreneur ever since I was a kid, you know, once upon
 a time, I sold cut go knives.
 I learned, you know, how to cold call, how to close someone on the spot in college.
 I ran a contracting business where I had 50 people working for me, painting homes and commercial
 buildings and just adding a level, level professionalism in a service based industry that lacked
 professionalism.
 I've worked in healthcare, I've worked in real estate, you know, you name it.
 I went to business school thinking like, I'm going to emerge from from there with my
 MBA to start some type of tech startup and I did do just that, but I had multiple failures
 along the way chasing trends instead of starting a trend.
 And, you know, I think all those learning lessons, all the failures, you know, make you
 a better entrepreneur and I think that like the Mark Zuckerberg's Neelon muscle the world
 really distort the reality of entrepreneurship.
 Like very rarely do you step up to the plate having never swung a baseball bat and hit a
 grand slam, you know, on national television, right?
 Most of the time, you know, the startup that you are known for, that business that you
 own and run that your friends and family, you know, respect you for, that wasn't your
 first rodeo.
 And yeah, I mean, look, I'm 41 and you know, it took me a long time to find success, you
 know, when I was, I think there's probably a 15 year gap between when I really tasted
 success running that contracting business where I, as a 20 year old netted 50 grand in
 six months after all my expenses were paid, you know, and fast forward to when lover boy
 had his first profitable year.
 I mean, that was like a 15 year gap that I was just trying to find my way.
 House distribution been like for lover boy, like what are your channels and, you know,
 what are you, where, where you sold the most and, you know, what's it been like trying
 to grow that?
 Sure.
 Well, I think a lot of people understand, you know, alcohol is tricky.
 Obviously, there's a lot of regulation and red tape.
 And some people have heard about the three tier system some haven't, but essentially by
 law, I'm required to sell to a wholesaler who then sells to a retailer.
 I can't go to retailers direct.
 So that's the three tiers supplier wholesaler and retailer.
 And if you don't have wholesalers on board, because they're your actual consumer, then
 you're never going to get into retail and retail will never sell to consumer.
 And as a result, that's actually part of the reason why alcohol so far behind this three
 tier system created disconnect between the suppliers and the consumer.
 And so you're putting products out there that are archaic and dated, but, you know, your
 wholesalers don't know any better because they're not selling to the consumer directly either.
 And, you know, when you think about the bravo consumer, it's not the consumer that's
 going into convenience or liquor as much so as going into grocery.
 So our strategy, you know, was to go to where our fan base is and build that early adopter
 strategy.
 And partly that into almost reverse engineering, the typical cycle, normally you're going
 to your wholesaler begging and pleading and then then going to the retailer.
 We almost did at the exact opposite.
 We had consumers asking for it.
 And the consumers were asking their retailers for it, the retailers were asking the wholesaler
 for it.
 So you create pull instead of pushing shit out to your wholesaler.
 And that, again, that's all driven by content, right?
 Yes, it's driven by my TV show, but I mean, Jake Paul is doing it with his YouTube channel
 and his Instagram.
 So there's a thousand ways to do it now.
 Yeah.
 What's, as you look back, you know, you're, what, six, five years in to lover boy 2018.
 So like, what do you look, you look back and they don't live in reverse, but like, what's
 been like the biggest learning lesson?
 Oh, I mean, like any industry that you're technically an outsider, you know, entering
 in, you know, you don't know, you don't know, so you have to be like a sponge.
 You know, but there's definitely times where, you know, we were way too hung up on this
 decision or we took way too much time to expand or we took certain things, you know, from
 a supply chain perspective for granted.
 And so, look, we've, we've had strategics try to, you know, invest, you guys strategics
 try to buy us.
 We have had every venture capitalist in consumer packaged goods inbound and try to invest
 in.
 There are certain things that perhaps we were a little naive, you know, or, or cocky or,
 you know, what have you, you know, anytime, any brand has been around for a good couple
 of years in the consumer realm, you know, there's always a chance you can lose your edge.
 But we are just laser focused on understanding our consumer, continuing to set trends instead
 of follow, you know, follow trends.
 And, um, and yeah, just, uh, every day is a learning lesson.
 What is the, the master plan with lover boy?
 I mean, you know, if you can share, like what, what, what, what does that look like?
 That roadmap?
 Yeah, I mean, look, I think, um, I think I am, uh, I'm very much in the mindset that
 I'd love lover boy to be a household name that lives well beyond the, the Bravo universe.
 And I think we're already kind of approaching that, you know, people are drinking it and
 have no idea who I am.
 They have no idea, you know, what summer, summer house is.
 Yeah.
 And I think that's the goal, right, to, to build a brand bigger than me, bigger than
 the show.
 Um, we are still in single digit weighted distribution and what that means is, you know,
 obviously, some retailers like the Walmart, so the world sell a heck of a lot more volume
 than a mom and pop.
 And so weighted distribution takes into account the chains, we're still single digit
 distribution.
 And the biggest challenge we've had in the last 18 months is our wholesalers aren't taking
 enough product in to fill the shelves and prevent out of stocks.
 So until we can solve the out of stocks, until we can get our weighted distribution up
 into big, you know, double digit, ideally like 25%.
 Um, we, we just have so much, um, left on the table, so much opportunity, you know,
 and so we're laser focused on execution and building a brand that can stand the test
 of time.
 And, you know, would we take a call from a strategic now that we wouldn't want to,
 wouldn't want to have two, three years ago, because we were so nased.
 Absolutely.
 Yeah.
 But, you know, I'm, I'm not looking for distractions.
 I'm like I said, if I'm in execution mode, um, these need to be, uh, due diligence
 pretty quick.
 Yeah.
 I mean, is that a, is it just meeting the right people like, is it just getting in
 front of more people like, like with that three tier system?
 Like what's the magic trigger that's just like the windfall?
 Well, you have to demonstrate consumer awareness, consumer pull, whether you have a
 big marketing budget or some, you know, content strategy.
 Um, and then, I mean, look, you need a product that offers points of differentiation.
 There's been dozens upon dozens of attempts to take on the number one heart T.
 But all of those products were me to look alike products that didn't really offer any
 differentiation.
 They were similar brands, similar branding going after the similar consumer with a similar
 sugar fueled product.
 So you kind of have to have points of differentiation and look, I'll be honest, like is way harder
 to launch, you know, a product that plays in what we're calling this fourth category,
 whether it's better for you or beyond beer or ready to drink, you have to have like a
 lot of stars aligning today versus, um, even just two years ago.
 And certainly pretty pandemic.
 Yeah.
 The, um, I always like to say it's, don't be better, be different.
 You know, it's like, that's the key.
 Yeah.
 And, and don't spend your time stressing out about the competition because if you're, um,
 different, then it doesn't matter.
 Yeah.
 Well, if you're better, you're competing.
 If you're different, you're dominating, right?
 Exactly.
 Yeah.
 I love it.
 It's like, it's like imagine trying to take on Nike or our shoes are better.
 Our clothing is drier and fits better.
 See what I did there?
 Yeah.
 Uh-huh.
 You know, good luck.
 Good luck.
 Good friggin' luck.
 Exactly.
 Exactly.
 You can have a way better product, but you don't have the Nike swish.
 Yeah.
 Exactly.
 Just do it.
 The, uh, where's the show going?
 Where's this all headed, man?
 Outside of Liverpool.
 I'm just talking about where's, how cook headed, where's, uh, summer house, winter house,
 you know, what's the future hold?
 Yeah.
 Look, I think, um, I, I hope the show continues to, uh, follow me, Amanda.
 Our friends, our, our company, as it evolves, and like I said, I hope it continues to evolve.
 I think that's what makes the television show great, um, you know, will I age out of
 the cut, the summer house concept as it is?
 I suspect I'm going to start a family at some point, and I also don't plan to raise
 that family in New York City, um, but, uh, you know, I think I, I got a few years left
 from, you know, from that perspective, winter house is a completely different beast.
 It's so much fun.
 It's two weeks of the year, and, um, yeah, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, don't
 wild ride.
 Um, but yeah, I mean, there's, there's a side of me that wants to think about the next
 chapter and continue to put content, um, and content creation at the center and think
 about what haven't we done?
 Guess what?
 We haven't had the time or the team or the band with to do YouTube or, or start shooting
 some behind the scenes.
 Um, so that's the kind of stuff that I'm, I'm focused on.
 Yeah.
 I love it, man.
 Well, maybe we'll get to invite up to one of these summer houses or something.
 Hey, we, we, we're known for our, our, sorry, drama, catch.
 We're known for our theme parties.
 Um, you know, I think, I don't think there's another show that has put theme parties
 on the mat, quite like summer house, and, um, it's, it's a lot of fun.
 And if you ever find yourself in the anthems, you, you hit me up.
 Yeah.
 I will.
 We're going to, we're going to make keep up with you, Kyle.
 Let's give everybody all the, uh, the websites, the social handles.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 So lover boy is obviously my, my bread and butter, uh, it's my baby.
 So that's a drink loverboy.com and same handle across the, uh, Instagram, Twitter,
 et cetera.
 I think is we actually have the lover boy handle on, um, on TikTok, but we're not too
 active there because there's some challenges pushing a brand, uh, an alcohol
 brand on TikTok.
 And then you can find me, um, just search, you know, Kyle Cook on Instagram, Twitter.
 Technically, it's the letters I M, and then my name, Kyle Cook, um, but, uh, but yeah,
 I, uh, I try to be active, but I could be a lot more active with that one.
 Kyle, I really appreciate you coming to the show.
 You shared a lot of insights, especially on the business side that probably people didn't
 understand or know that they relate to reality TV and everything else.
 I really appreciate the transparency and authenticity.
 You got it, Ryan.
 Uh, thanks for giving me a platform to share it and, um, you know, thanks so much for,
 for listening along.
 Hey guys, you were to find us the radcast.com search for Kyle Cook.
 That's cook with an e.
 You'll find all of the highlight clips and everything today and look, I want you to go
 into your grocery store and I want you to say, I want lover boy, ha, ha, ha, start
 out.
 Let's get to push going with the pool.
 You know, you know, I'm at Ryan offered on all the platforms with that blue check mark
 before you could buy it.
 We'll see you next time on the radcast.
 To listen and watch full episodes, visit us on the web at the radcast.com or follow us
 on social media at our Instagram account, v dot rad dot cast or at Ryan Alfred.
 Stay radical.
 You're listening to the radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 This is about as it comes, especially on the entertainment beats, need to seek e-conversed
 side.
 We're a star at Bravo TV show Summer House and the CEO of lover boy, that sparkling
 heart.
 You can't miss Kyle Cook.
 What's up, brother?
 Okay.
 Good.
 Thanks for having me.
 Hey, man.
 I would never.
 Hey, just live in the dream, brother.
 Live in the dream is South Kaka Lackie.
 You got it.
 I know.
 You're a man.
 Hat and I understand.
 So.
 Yes.
 Cutting around.
 Hold it down in NYC, baby.
 Is that always been home?
 No, I got at this point, I guess.
 I'm in New York or I grew up in New Hampshire.
 I thought if he had a two car garage, you must be super filthy rich, so very modest,
 hit a link come up, bringing been in New York since 2007.
 I moved down here to join a college buddy of mine to do a real estate startup.
 from two years at business school, get my MBA. I have been here. Yes, it's 2007.
 Hey, there you go. You're definitely a New Yorker now. I think it's 10 years makes anybody
 up to whatever they are. This is when you get on the other side of life and business and everything
 else you're transitioning from like startup to businesses and everything else. I know we'll
 get into that. But everybody's, it's not even a guilt. I don't even feel guilty about it,
 but I think everybody's like pleasures reality TV. So I said like coming through our aids,
 it was so big coming up. You had all the MTV shows, you've had all these, the Kardashians,
 you've had everything else. Talk walk us through. I think we should start there with just that
 journey because I'm sure people watching are listening, know the name, know the face,
 if they're into the show or anything like that. But I'd love to just understand that journey.
 Yeah, I think even just talking about the guilty pleasure aspect of it, I think I would say
 pre Kardashian era pre influencer creator era. It was looked at as like why would you do this?
 You must have a joke of a career or no career at all. If you're going to put it all out there
 and just do it for fame. And I think the Kardashians kind of change everyone's attitude towards reality
 television. And I think it's just so mainstream now that it's no longer a guilty pleasure. It's a
 pleasure. People openly talk about it. I have guys that wait in line at these meet and greets
 this to say hello to me. I don't think there'd be a guy in sight 10 years ago. No one would admit
 they're watching Bravo 10 years ago. So yeah, it's been a wild ride and look, I originally looked at
 it from an opportunistic standpoint. I'm like listen, this is a captive audience. This is how you
 build a platform, how you build a name for yourself, how you launch a new age brand. And it just
 so happened that the concept was already a variation of what I was already doing. My friends here
 in New York, we all do different things professionally. We pull our money together. We rent a house in
 the Hamptons and we go out every single weekend or at least some of the weekends of the summer and
 you pinball back and forth. And that that kind of summer house or share house lifestyle is something
 that a lot of people can probably away to, particularly if you lived in New York. And it wasn't that
 novel of a concept that turned into a television show. But the Hamptons aside from speaking of
 Kardashians, they did some shooting there. Obviously real house sizes shot there, but there's never
 been a show that's truly based in the Hamptons that has stood the test of time. And I think that's
 where we are today. We are we just filmed season eight. I think what energized the network about
 our show is it was about it existing group of friends, the real world Jersey Shore model where
 you put a bunch of strangers that are hand picked to be polar opposites and basically fight.
 Like that model has been done. How do you evolve it? And I think that's what we do with summer house.
 Yeah. It's how did it like how did it manifest? I think people always want to know maybe I'm
 sure you've told the story before, but for our audience. So I was working on a nutrition startup.
 It was pre-launch. Spending every spare dollar I had to my name on either renting house in the
 Hamptons or building my app. And a buddy of mine that I went to undergrad with
 forwarded me this casting email. And he's had a house in Montauk since the 80s. And I think his
 forwarded his sister had forwarded it to him. And he was just like, dude, if anyone's gonna have
 a role in ruining this town forever. I was like, what a compliment. Yeah, thanks. But I think
 thanks. But I was at that point in my career where I'm like, all right, if I do launch this thing
 acquiring customers, that's the number one challenge, the number one cost. I don't have a boss.
 I could use a freehouse like all these things spoke to me. And I'm like, hey, there's a very rare
 chance this will go anywhere. But I went out to the initial casting. It was a one-man band that
 hired a casting company. And nothing became of it. Months go by, the audition tapes changed hands
 to some more seasoned producers. And they were like, listen, if we can tap guys like Kyle to go
 round up their friends and we latch on to an existing friend group, we could probably sell this
 to Bravo. Because there's something there. And that's when I got more involved and more interested.
 I'm like, listen, if this is the real deal, if there's actually a shot in hell that this actually
 makes the television, it's worth me putting in the effort. I worked hand in hand with those producers
 essentially September through June. What year was that? This is 2015 into 2016. Yeah.
 Because it took about nine months to, you know, work out the kinks, get the right people in front
 of the camera and then work with the network to figure out how the hell to shoot a show like this.
 Because Bravo, yes, there's some surveillance camera footage and like shows like below deck.
 But nothing to this extent. Every room is Mike. It has a camera with infrared technology to
 robo cam so you can get a lot better quality than the little GoPro's they use into below deck.
 And yeah, it was just next to end of June of 2016. I'm getting mic'd up and I'm like, my God,
 I cannot believe this is happening. And that was season one. And we shot in 2016 and aired in two
 one of 2017. So one, you know, for listening business audience like Carl is a good businessman
 and recognized that gaining customers is difficult. And you have to pay to get in front of,
 to get reach and frequency. A lot of audience seen a lot of times. And so whether he was selling
 underwear or hard spike cider or fitness equipment, he knew that getting in front of that audience,
 he could talk about or build his personal brand up with which to then market any product.
 I'm putting words to your mouth, Kyle, but I'm reading them in the lines for how it all this works.
 Thinking of this way, when I graduated business school was 2011. And what are the expressions
 that a professor said over and over again is cash is king. I think that's changed to content
 is king. And I say that because you don't need cash to create content. But every company needs
 content to acquire customers. And so sure, my cheat code was a Bravo television show. But back in
 2015, streamers, the Netflix, the who lose the Amazon's of the world hardly existed. There was
 probably two or three shows on Amazon at that time. And so today, people have many more options at
 their fingertips, right? You can launch a behind the scenes show and you launch your brand on YouTube.
 And again, content is king. And Gary V says it all the time. Every company needs to be a content
 company. And so that's the takeaway here is you can truck this off as I this guy's going to
 TV show, unfair advantage, et cetera, et cetera. I saw the opportunity. Yeah, I put in the work.
 But you can do that on any platform, not cable, but maybe YouTube or TikTok, you name it.
 And that is exactly right, Kyle. That's why I respect the hell out of what you've done. And
 it goes back to you went down the you started to go down this path. Like when reality TV started,
 the social media networks did not exist or did not exist in the form they are now.
 So you had to rely on TV is the distribution channels for the content.
 What's revolved now is you've got TV. And in many ways, TikTok and Instagram and Facebook and
 Twitter are like stations in a way. Like there are other distribution platforms, right?
 So the last thing I'll just say on this topic of kind of content is king.
 I heard some crazy statistic that something like 9 out of 10 podcasts uploaded
 to Apple or Spotify, whatever. Never see a second podcast. In other words,
 people put out a podcast and never follow it up. So whether you're trying to make a TV show or
 you're trying to get your TikTok or your YouTube or your whatever channel up and running,
 you have to put in the time, right? Like I put in a year's worth of work before we even shot
 a single frame of summer house if you think about going all the way back to the original casting.
 So everything takes work. And I think it's really easy to throw in the towel if you don't go viral
 your first or second stab at it. So that's the last thing I'll just say is persistence and drive
 and commitment is needed no matter what you're trying to do.
 100% with that. I've told that story many times with our very own show here.
 First 49 listens were all my mom. And then now we get 1.5 million a month. Yeah,
 but it's been five years. It takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. Before we get it just more
 the business and how you've part laid the show. Talk to us about the reality of like summer house
 and now winter house like this. What's that? Tell us to give us the real nitty gritty.
 I think the reason why people are obsessed with it is because reality television is a heck of a lot
 more relatable than almost any other medium whether it's a TV show that's scripted or a movie or
 a game on professional athletes or a concert with a professional artist. Reality television,
 the beauty of it is world is normal people. Sure, we have our screws loose and some people are
 more dramatic than others, but I think the relatability factor is this the secret sauce. And
 and from there it's it's relatable because it's a little more organic and a little more authentic
 than watching something that's scripted. And I think that's at the core like every brand wants to
 be authentic. Every brand wants to have organic look and feel and pull within custom within the
 consumer world. And I think that's what lends itself to being such a powerful platform. Now as for
 what it's like, look, I quickly forget that the cameras are running. Our show shoots 24-7 right
 through the weekend. You can't sit there and think about what you're going to say. You can't
 pre-meditate anything. I'm sure some people do, but you got to live in the moment. It's one of the
 very rare occasions where none of us on our phones, you're present and you're just living in the
 moment and and reacting. And sure, it's a there's a lot of alcohol involved in our show which kind
 of proves my point. We are not thinking about what we're going to say. That'd be literally impossible.
 But when you're filming it's fun. Sure, you can have a bad day, but it's a fascinating process.
 Obviously we shoot exponentially more hours than makes the air. And so I love watching it in its
 final version because I'm seeing things I was in preview to the way Bravo shoots. We do these
 interviews where you have an opportunity to reflect and have a little more self-awareness than you
 would in the moment. There's all sorts of little kind of hidden gems that make the way Bravo does
 it just so good for consumption. And yeah, it's really hard to describe until you see it and you're
 in it. But the producers are they're not telling us what to do. They're not trying to tell us what to
 say, but they are moving things along because if you have a big night out, you have a big blowout
 fight with your friend. The next day, it's not necessarily human nature. You just go right up to
 them and confront them and talk about the producers are there to like, hey guys, I know you'd love
 to just chill by the pool and nurse your hangover and avoid the elephant in the room, but that's not
 how you make his television show. And that's the key point I was going to say is like the people
 talk about like when you think about social media, like the cringe, I don't like seeing myself
 on camera. Like I'm cringe-worthy. This is everything times a thousand. And so
 did you, I'm sure you just had to and everyone on it, you have to just immediately get over that
 or is it still tough to watch? No, don't get me wrong. My TV debut, I was
 wasted in a hot tub with Stasi from Vanderpump because our show spawned off of the Vanderpump
 franchise because we had an organic connection with that cast. And so Stasi and her friends came
 to the Hantes to visit. That's where we came in and the next thing you know, you're watching
 the summer house. And my first couple of minutes on television were really embarrassing because
 I was absolutely hammered. They took their pretty little time to make their way to the beach.
 We were already hammered on Rose and by the time I got in that hot tub and tried to make a move,
 I was embarrassingly drunk, but yeah, I guess I got that out of the way right out of the gate.
 And I don't have any issue watching things back. Sometimes it's very cringe, particularly if it's
 not just me, maybe it's my relationship, but it's all part of what we sign up for. And sure,
 some people are going to handle it better than others. For me, I wear it all in my sleeve. And
 I definitely try to be in touch with my feelings, my emotions, all that mushy shit. I think that's
 actually what makes casting guys challenging a lot of guys are like Teflon. Yeah. And they're not
 in touch with some of the more vulnerable things that make them a dynamic individual and dynamic enough
 to be casted. Yeah. Amen. The last thing I'll say is about that is like, how do you balance?
 I just think about it. I know it's just like that short weekend, but the live work hard, play hard
 aspect, just to play hard, getting in the way of the work hard sometimes.
 Oh, yeah. I joke, but it's yeah, you work hard. You play harder during the summer. Yeah.
 Look, it's been a grind. We, when we fill, it's not just the weekends, right? Like
 Friday morning rolls around, you usually drive up to the studio. They go pro your car because
 the three hour commute and they want to capture some of that build up to the house. Yeah.
 And then from there, it's 24th, 24, 7th through Sunday, then you get a drive back home, which is
 often three hours. And that's nine times out of 10 off camera. Thank God, but God is your free time.
 God is your time to decompress during the weekend or during your Sunday.
 And then to make it even more challenging, they want to capture some of our life during the week,
 working, going out to eat, grabbing a coffee, catching up with a bud.
 So we have to make ourselves available. Usually it's Wednesday and Thursday, depending on what's
 going on. Yeah. And we often don't get that call time until the day before or the day of sometimes.
 And so I have to tell my team, hey, my schedule on Wednesdays and Thursdays has to be somewhat
 valuable because you never know when we get called in to go film something for a couple hours.
 And then once the season's all done with, we have these interviews ever a couple of weeks to
 help connect the dots. There's press commitments. And then when it airs,
 that also is a distraction. So factor in winterhouse, which is a condensed filming schedule,
 but it's a crazy two weeks. And then there's still obligations once you've wrapped. And I got
 even in 2022, I shot a third show called The Traders for Peacock. So I have very little balance.
 Get to start a family. I'm trying to build up my nest egg. And no one wants to hear the
 pace story of all Kyle's busy because he's shot three TV shows and runs a company. This is
 what I signed up for. No point in complaining. Yeah. Is it ever? Do you ever fall in love with the
 you got to love the process of it all? And it's I think either love it or you hate it. If you
 hate it, you probably don't last eight seasons like you have. That's all I can imagine. Yeah, I
 think look, like one of your questions before we started rolling was just like, hey, is it the same
 cast? And the fact of matter is in no world, would you be summering with the same people year
 of a year of a year? Half my friends that I met in Montague don't even live in New York anymore.
 Yeah. Some people are married. Some people have kids. Plans change. So the show is evolved to take
 that into account. And look, some people are unbelievable individuals, but like maybe they just
 aren't cut out for TV. So I think I chalk my staying power up to just, hey, I'm not in the same
 place I was eight years ago. Thank God. And I'm evolving for better for worse. And we're able to
 capture some of that. And I'm hopefully slowly but surely giving hope for all mankind that
 guys like me that once a lot of time are like scared of commitment and we'd use their job as a means
 of justifying why they're not in a relationship. I guess what? There's hope. There's hope.
 There is hope. I think it's a perfect transition to a lot of hope, a lot of hope in love,
 a boy. Yeah. Everything's riding on lover boy. I hope it's not a strategy, my friend. You
 got strategy. I know it. I see it. That's why you're on the show. Let's talk lover boy. How did
 that come about? And how's it fucking doing? So great. Yeah. Look, like I said, when the original
 casting opportunity came up, I was working on this nutrition app and I did a little research
 about Bravo. It's like the number one rated network among women on cable television.
 They're a little more affluent, educated than a lot of other audiences on television. And guess
 what? Who controls the disposable income of most households women? So all these things check
 the box. And then when I looked at what I was focused on, which is nutrition, I was like, I bet
 you a large percentage of the audience that watches Bravo wants to look good and feel good. And
 nutrition is a huge part of that. And I looked at what people were spending on fitness and how
 much they were neglecting on the nutrition front. I was just like, I'm going to do something
 about it. What I didn't understand or appreciate is that would be nearly impossible to bring the
 life on camera. I built a nutrition app where you connect with a coach. There is nothing about
 that is TV worthy. In fact, when I would try to do something to showcase what I was working on,
 they'd be like, we need something visual. Can you do a workout and then talk about the nutrition
 app? So we would shoot that half the time. It didn't make the air and the times it did, people
 like after the fact thought I had a fitness app. They were like, no, after I made the kitchen,
 it's nutrition, it's nutrition. So all this while when there's confusion and disinterest and
 challenges in bringing this venture of mine to life, everybody was asking what we were drinking.
 What's the rosé? What's this, what's this hard tea? What the heck is this hard sensor?
 And it was like the opportunity was staring me in the face. 99% of alcohol products don't even
 have a nutrition fact panel or the ingredients listed. Here I am talking about the importance of
 nutrition. And we're drinking products that once I did a little research, we're absolutely
 horrible for you. I actually felt bad telling them the name of the hard CD we were drinking on the show
 because it was just full of sugar. And like everyone's trying to cut out sugar Monday through
 Friday. Why would you just drink nothing but sugar during the weekends? Like that tasty margarita
 that it's frozen coming out of the machine. Full of sugar, go figure. So the opportunity was
 staring me in the face. There weren't that many hardselcers at the time. But I was just like this
 is going to change how people think about drinking because there's a nutrition fact panel and
 seeding ingredients. It's light, it's refreshing. It's an alternative to beer. It's an alternative
 to wine spirits too. But all these hardselcers tasted the same. And I looked at the fact that
 there was only one hard tea that had mass market penetration and distribution. And it was
 the same brand that had a change in 20 years. And I realized there was this theme in alcohol.
 Alcohol's 20 years behind the rest of food and beverage. And so I was like, why create
 another hardselter if I can create the first premium better for you hard tea. And that was
 essentially the inception of loverable. It was, hey, online hardselcers, we're going to use
 better quality ingredients other than just natural flavors like Le Croix or a white claw. We're
 use better quality ingredients. But that just because you're getting more flavor, it doesn't mean you're
 going to get all the calories and carbs associated with some of the traditional hard teas, hard
 lemonade on the market. And we've filled this little void and continued to dominate it in between
 like a hardselter, which is underwhelming, but better for you than the alternatives. And then
 this like full sugar, full flavor experience that two of those in your, you basically have
 consumed more sugar in that sitting, then you're supposed to consume for the entire day.
 So loverboy, we started with our smartly hard teas and then we realized my god, look at
 how much sugar's in an opera all spreads. Look at how much sugar is in this press in our teeny.
 We started building out these other product lines to fill other voids we saw in the marketplace.
 Brilliant with the show. Everybody wants to know what you're drinking like it was the perfect
 like influencer campaign within the TV show, right? Yeah. Everyone's like, how are you guys partying
 this much and waking up and doing it all over again? I'm like, first things first, drink loverboy
 because our smartly hard teas have zero sugar. And sugar plays such a big part in why you feel
 like absolute crap the next day. And you go into the your Monday work week feeling like all the
 gains you made from eating clean and working out were completely lost. And it's this vicious
 repetitive cycle. And by cutting out sugar, my god, it's like we eliminated those vicious hangovers.
 And I just got this question down in Dallas. I was at a pool party, though. So I was thinking
 that people were asking me, like, how do you do it? And I'm like, I drink these.
 Drink your own product. How's it? What's the story of your old journey been like? I know it has
 been all roses. It's tough, right? I mean, you've had and made some really smart decisions,
 obviously switching to this product, having the TV show, having that built in influencer
 base, so to speak. But I, I feel like I've been an entrepreneur ever since I was a kid
 once upon a time I sold cut go knives. I learned how to cold call, how to close someone on the spot
 in college. I ran a contracting business where I had 50 people working for me,
 painting homes and commercial buildings and just adding a level of professionalism in a service
 based industry that lacked professionalism. I've worked in healthcare, I've worked in real estate,
 but you name it. I went to business school thinking like I'm going to emerge from there with my
 MBA to start some type of tech startup. And I did do just that, but I had multiple failures
 along the way, chasing trends instead of starting a trend. And I think all those learning lessons,
 all the failures make you a better entrepreneur. And I think that like the Mark Zuckerberg's Neelon
 muscle the world really distort the reality of entrepreneurship. Like very rarely do you step up
 to the plate having never swung a baseball bat and hit a grand slam on national television.
 Right? Most of the time the startup that you are known for, that business that you own and run,
 that your friends and family respect you for, that wasn't your first rodeo.
 And yeah, look, I'm 41. And you know, it took me a long time to find success when I was, I think
 there was probably a 15 year gap between when I really tasted success running that contracting
 business where I as a 20 year old netted 50 grand in six months after all my expenses were paid
 and fast forward to when lover boy had his first profitable year. That was like a 15 year gap
 that I was just trying to find my way. House distribution been like for lover boy. What are your
 channels and where do you, where you sold the most and what's it been like trying to grow that?
 Sure. I think a lot of people understand alcohol's tricky. Obviously, there's a lot of regulation and
 red tape. And some people have heard about the three tier system some haven't, but essentially
 by law, I'm required to sell to a wholesaler who then sells to a retailer. I can't go to retailers
 direct. So that's the three tiers supplier wholesaler and retailer. And if you don't have wholesalers
 on board, because they're your actual consumer, then you're never going to get into retail and
 retail will never sell to consumer. And as a result, that's actually part of the reason why alcohol
 so far behind this three tier system created disconnect between the suppliers and the consumer.
 And so you're putting products out there that are archaic and dated, but your wholesalers don't
 know any better because they're not selling to the consumer directly either. And when you think
 about the bravo consumer, it's not the consumer that's going into convenience or liquor as much so
 as going into grocery. Our strategy was to go to where our fan base is and build that early adopter
 strategy and parlay that into almost reverse engineering the typical cycle. Normally you're going
 to your wholesaler begging and pleading and then then going to the retailer. We almost did
 it the exact opposite. We had consumers asking for it. Then the consumers were asking their retailers
 for it. The retailers were asking the wholesaler for it. So you create pull instead of pushing
 shit out to your wholesaler. And that again, that's all driven by content, right? Yes, it's driven
 by my TV show, but anybody Jake Paul's doing it with pride. Logan Paul's doing it with his YouTube
 channel and his Instagram, right? So there's a thousand ways to do it now. Yeah,
 what's as you look back, I mean, you're what six, five years in to lover boy 2018. So what do you
 look back on? You don't live in reverse, but what's been like the biggest learning lesson?
 All like any industry that you're technically an outsider entering in, you don't know, you don't
 know. So you have to be like a sponge. But there's definitely times where we were way too hung up
 on this decision or we took way too much time to expand or we took certain things from a supply
 chain perspective for granted. And look, we've we've had strategics try to invest, you guys
 strategics try to buy us. We have had every venture capitalist in consumer packaged goods in
 bound and try to invest in there are certain things that perhaps we were a little naive or
 cocky or what have you anytime any brand has been around for a good couple of years in the consumer
 realm. There's always a chance you can lose your edge, but we are just laser focused on
 understanding our consumer, continuing to set trends instead of follow follow trends. And yeah,
 just every day is a learning lesson. What is the master plan with lover boy if you can share,
 like what does that look like that roadmap? Yeah, look, I think I think I am I'm very much in the
 mindset that I love lover boy to be a household name that lives well beyond the bravo universe.
 And I think we're already approaching that. People are drinking it and have no idea who I am,
 they have no idea what summer summer house is. And I think that's the goal right to build a brand
 bigger than me bigger than the show. We are still in single digit weighted distribution. And what
 that means is obviously some retailers like the Walmart, so the world sell a heck of a lot more
 volume than a mom and pop. And so weighted distribution takes into account the chains.
 We're still single digit distribution. And the biggest challenge we've had in the last 18
 months is our wholesalers aren't taking enough product in to fill the shelves and prevent out of
 stocks. So until we can solve the out of stocks, until we can get our weighted distribution up
 into double digit, ideally like 25%. We just have so much left on the table, so much opportunity.
 We're laser focused on execution and building a brand that can stand the test of time. And
 would we take a call from a strategic now that we wouldn't want to have two, three years ago,
 because we are so nascent. Absolutely. But I'm not looking for distractions. Like I said, if I'm
 in execution mode, these need to be due diligence pretty quick. Is that a, is it just meeting the
 right people because it's getting in front of more people like with that three tier system?
 What's the magic trigger that's just like the windfall? You have to demonstrate
 consumer awareness, consumer pull, whether you have a big marketing budget or some content strategy.
 And then look, you need a product that offers points of differentiation. There's been dozens
 upon dozens of attempts to take on the number one hard tea. But all of those products were
 me to look alike products that didn't really offer any differentiation. They were
 similar brands, similar branding going after the similar consumer with a similar sugar fueled
 product. So you have to have points of differentiation. And look, I'll be honest, like it is
 way harder to launch a product that plays in what we're calling this fourth category, whether it's
 better for you or beyond beer or ready to drink. You have to have a lot of stars aligning today
 versus even just two years ago. And certainly pretty pandemic. Yeah.
 The I always say it's don't be better be different. Yeah. That's the key.
 Yeah. And don't spend your time stressing out about the competition because if you're
 different, then it doesn't matter. Yeah. If you're better, you're competing. If you're different,
 you're dominating. Exactly. Yeah. I love it. Imagine trying to take on Nike.
 Our shoes are better. Our clothing is drier and fits better. See what I did there. Yeah.
 Good luck. Good luck. Good friggin luck. Exactly. Exactly. You can have a way better product,
 but you don't have the Nike swish. Yeah. Exactly. Just do it. Where's the show going? Where's
 this all headed, man? Outside of Liverpool. I'm just talking about where's Kyle Cook headed? Where's
 summer house, winter house. What's the future hold? Yeah. Look, I think I hope the show continues to
 follow me, Amanda. Our friends are company as it evolves. And like I said, I hope it continues
 to evolve. I think that's what makes the television show great. Will I age out of the summer house
 concept as it is? I suspect I'm going to start a family at some point and I also don't plan to
 raise that family in New York City. But I think I got a few years left from that perspective.
 Winter house is a completely different beast. It's so much fun. It's two weeks of the year.
 And yeah, it don't wild ride. But yeah, there's a side of me that wants to think about
 the next chapter and continue to put content and content creation at the center and think about
 what haven't we done? Guess what? We haven't had the time or the team or the bandwidth to do YouTube
 or start shooting some behind the scenes. So that's the kind of stuff that I'm focused on. Yeah.
 I love it, man. Maybe we'll get the invite up to one of these summer houses or something.
 We're known for our strong my cash. We're known for our theme parties. I don't think there's
 another show that has put theme parties on the map quite like summer house. It's a lot of fun.
 And if you ever find yourself in the anthems, you hit me up. Yeah, I will.
 Hey guys, we're going to make keep up with you, Kyle. Let's give everybody all the websites,
 the social handles. Yeah. Yeah. So lover boys, obviously my bread and butter, that's my baby.
 So that's a drink loverboy.com and same handle across the Instagram, Twitter, etc. I think
 is we actually have the loverboy handle on TikTok, but we're not too active there because there's
 some challenges pushing a brand, an alcohol brand on TikTok. And then you can find me just search Kyle
 Cook on Instagram, Twitter. Technically, it's the letters I am. And then my name Kyle Cook.
 But yeah, I try to be active, but I could be a lot more active. Put it that way.
 Kyle, I really appreciate you coming to show. You shared a lot of insights, especially on the
 business side that probably people didn't understand or know that relate to reality TV and everything
 else. I really appreciate the transparency and authenticity. You got it, Ryan. Thanks for giving me
 a platform to share it. And thanks so much for listening along. Hey guys, you were to find us
 the radcast.com search for Kyle Cook. That's Cook with an e. You'll find all of the highlight clips
 and everything today. And look, I want you to go into your grocery store and I want you to say,
 I want lover boy. Let's get to push going with the pull. You know what I mean? You know I'm
 at Ryan offered on all the platforms with that blue check mark before you could buy it. We'll see
 it next time on Radcast. To listen or watch full episodes, visit us on the web at the radcast.com
 or follow us on social media at our Instagram account d.rad.cast or at Ryan Alfred. Stay radical.