B2B podcasting lessons from 200 episodes about LinkedIn

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In this episode, I wanted to do something a little bit different because I want
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to be able to show you that it's not just
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about you and it's not just about me. Here, we can all learn from
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each other, and my ultimate goal is for you to learn full
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stop, whether that's from me or from someone else that has
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that experience that they're willing to share with you. Now, I could
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talk until the cows come home about how I've done hundreds and
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hundreds of episodes over the last 25 years of
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various podcasts. If I were to count them all together, they would
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probably come in the thousands rather than the hundreds.
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But I think this is the important point here. When we share experience,
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we need a vast, varied array of different
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experiences that we as podcasters can
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draw from. So what better way to share experience
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of podcasting with you the than by highlighting
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this particular podcaster's experience when she had
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me interview her on her own show to
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celebrate 200 episodes. 200
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episodes later, I'm the one in the hot seat today. Michelle
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J. Raymond is a LinkedIn expert specializing in company
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pages, and she hosts the very popular podcast
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social media for B2B growth. To celebrate her
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200th episode, she asked me to do a no holds barred
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interview with her about her podcasting experience, and I
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felt it'd be well worthwhile sharing that with you now. So here it is.
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I am up to my 200th podcast
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episode and I never in a billion years
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ever imagined that I would be recording something that had that type
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of title in it. And it is just mind blowing.
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As somebody that doesn't listen to podcasts is this
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committed to showing up every single week. And I wanted
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to think about how I could make this episode interesting for you
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rather than just talk about, yay, I did 200 episodes. Aren't
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I cool? That's not helpful to anybody that's listening.
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So I had this idea. I wanted to go
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to the one and only podmaster, Neil
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Velio, who is a dear friend of mine, my podcast coach,
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mentor, and probably counselor in the background most of the
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time because I wanted to be a guest
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on my own show. Neil, thank you for agreeing to this
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craziness. It's an absolute honor and I can't wait
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to get started. Congratulations. First of all, that is, I can tell you now, as
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someone that works with lots of podcasters and has done for many years, that's an
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incredible achievement. The amount of podcasts that get to that landmark,
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probably fewer than I could count on one hand. Certainly when I Got a pint
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in the other. But my question for you is,
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when did you first realize? Because I know you had a bit of a checkered
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past with your podcast. When I first met you, you weren't really that in love
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with it, let's be honest about it. But, you know, that's the truth, is the
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podcast wasn't really getting you the results that you wanted. You were thinking, oh,
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why am I doing this? I'm not really into it. When was the moment that
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you actually realized, you know what, this could change my life?
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Yeah. And it is a confession. The first, I would
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say, hundred episodes. I have thought about going
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back and deleting those. I know I'm not allowed to, and I
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know that they're part of the journey, and I know that some people would have
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been around. We're talking years ago now. But when I first
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started, it was because my friend Michelle Griffin, she said, michelle, you need a
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podcast. And I was like, why do I need a podcast? She's like, it's good
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for your personal brand. I was like, oh, okay, whatever. So I figure out the
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tech so that I can record it. And I'm not going to say I figured
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out the tick well, but enough to get it recorded and uploaded.
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Yeah. Until I learned better. If I could go back to my younger self
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podcasting days, just go and speak to Neil, get him to do it properly for
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you the first time, you can save yourself 100 episodes. But
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what happened was I did it
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because I wanted to have conversations with people. I. I almost wanted
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them to become my friends. And there was no rhyme or reason to
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it. There was no strategy. There was no
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person that was a listener in mind. It was all about me
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and what I needed and wanted, and that was fine. And having
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guests was always good to help keep me accountable, like, because
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I can't be trusted, you know, back then to show up every
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week and do that consistently. I literally just
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did whatever. And the downloads were, you know, when you see numbers like
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30 or 20 and you're thinking, talking to 20 people,
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like, what the heck is this microphone even on? Like, is
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anyone out there listening? Like, that's what it was thinking. God, this is
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a lot of work. By the time you record and edit and, you know,
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organize all the guests, it's what, six, eight hours for the
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level and standard that I was doing when someone like you is doing. And
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sure, you're an expert, so you could probably speed some of those processes up, but.
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But it's not a half an hour show. Half an hour is the amount of
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time I invested into it. So there was a moment
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when I started to see that the messages that
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I started to get when I tightened things up were from people that
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I really wanted to work with, and they were my
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favorite clients. When they became clients, we were aligned in values.
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They knew exactly who I was, how I would show up
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my approach to LinkedIn. So, you know, in the early days,
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before I got this sorted, like people in engagement pods, and I'd
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want to punch them through the screen, I was like, no, we're not going down
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engagement pod routes. Like, we can't do that. But now,
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like, the people I work with from the podcast are just amazing.
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And as you know, I think it was like January
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2023, I got a cease and
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desist letter from. From LinkedIn asking me
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to basically change the name of the podcast. That was putting
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it nicely. If I didn't do it, I would lose my whole LinkedIn account.
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I had to change the name, which meant changing the
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website, removing LinkedIn's logo from every YouTube
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banner that I'd ever created. There was a long list of things and
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then a huge amount of work that I needed to do. And by taking.
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It was called LinkedIn for B2B growth, which is a great title for this
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podcast. It's. And that I had to take it out, and my numbers kept
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sliding in a way that I couldn't stop it. And
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you and I worked together, I think it was July 2023,
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the first time, because I knew at that point I either
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needed to have expert help that would turn this
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around, or flick the switch, say
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goodbye, and say no more podcasting. For me,
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that moment, I think, was the moment that I went, actually,
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no, this is important to me. I realized the loyalty
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that podcast listeners come with. I realized that it's a really
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close and intimate relationship with podcast listeners,
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even though I don't know who they are like. And so
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it's weird, and I know you and I have had this conversation. You're nodding
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your head for those people that will be listening to this on the audio. Neil's
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like, nodding his head fiercely in agreement. And it's
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just weird, but I love it. For someone that doesn't listen to
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podcasts, I finally think I get it.
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Neil, there you go. There's your sound grab. I think I
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finally get the power of
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podcasting and it grown my business. Like,
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absolutely. Most of my new clients
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typically come from a lead from my podcast now, like 6, 7
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out of 10 easily. Which for someone that spends so much time on LinkedIn,
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you know, like, it makes you question things some days.
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So let me understand that you're basically saying that the moment you
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realized this podcast was changing your life was
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after the drama with LinkedIn, after you
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felt that show was being taken away from you and that everything you built
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with it was under threat. That was the. It took that
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for you to realize, you know what? This podcast is amazing, and it is absolutely
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changing my life. Yeah. Because I had to realize at that moment
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that I wasn't doing it for me and me
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only. Like, I love showing up and being in service of
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my audience and my listeners. And this had become
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such an amazing way for me to do that. And if you remember
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when we first spoke, like, I used to always have guests, and I
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was far too scared and doubted myself
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severely that I could never record an episode by
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myself. And remember, like, I'm sure that there's DMs between you and I.
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In fact, I know that there are. Where I was going, oh, my
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God, when I try and record one by myself. This thing's taken me like
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an hour to do. It's all too hard. It gets stuck in my own head.
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And the only way I got out of it again was, I'm not doing it
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for me. I'm doing it for the people that listen. Cause
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I genuinely am in service of that audience. And then when I
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finally got out of my own head again, had a strategy where I would
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show up and create something that would be useful for other
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people, that they could go away and immediately put into
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practice easily, and it was easy to understand
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for everyone, no matter what level that they were at. I started
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enjoying it even more, and I wanted to show up. And I have
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guests infrequently now because I'm like, no, this is my moment
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and my microphone. And I've. I worked so hard to build
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this. And I built it completely organically
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over that time, as you know. And it's just been
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from getting better and better at this craft. Like, how can I be
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a better speaker? I think the best compliment I've got is
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people keep questioning if I'm one of those AI
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generated videos, and I'm like, no, I just talk like this and
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thanks. Is my skin routine working? You think I'm like, that perfect?
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But, you know, like, that's what practice and
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commitment and dedication to this. Because there are days
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when I think, God, is this thing working? Why should I?
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Is it all worth it? And, you know, then I have a podcast
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listener reach out and say, you told me in the ads that you wanted people
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to reach out and connect, here I am and I'm like, yes, I genuinely
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do. And I get super excited about it then. Brilliant.
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It really does. Who would have thought? I'm pretty sure that came out of our
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strategy session, like when we were setting up those little
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sound bites and just getting better at little bits of
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podcasting because it's not just, as you would say,
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show up, turn on the mic, record and then go away. Like, like,
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honestly, that just feels like someone's sliming.
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It's like no one needs any more talking apps. And again,
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it's still, for me, I want to say, hard
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to do something which I'm so passionate about and the people on
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the other side and not know who you are. So if you are listening to
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this and you hear the messages where I say, please reach out and connect with
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me, like it's genuine, please reach out and let me know you listen.
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What do you think the biggest shift
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your audience will have experienced with you
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since episode 100 to now is
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my. Confidence in, in speaking my
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views and not just relying on expert
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guests who I look up to. And I used to think
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that only my listeners would show up just because I had these
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well known guests. And I have had some pretty amazing guests
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on the show who I love. These people, they've taught me, inspired me, are
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super cool. But you know, as you said to me,
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Michelle, they show up week after week for me, not for the guests. And
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that was like, you know, smacked me straight between the eyes. Like, what the.
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Like what? Like. And I still, some days, and now I've
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got the confidence to say what I want to say in my
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own way and call out the things that I want to call out
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and give people both sides to the story. And I think that's what
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my listeners appreciate, is that I will give you both
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sides. I'm not here to tell you exactly how to do LinkedIn,
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but, but I will tell you, look, this is the upside, this is the
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downside. You choose, right? Like, I will give you pros
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and cons, but it's ultimately coming back to you to
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figure out what works best for you. So as we go forward, I, you
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know, I think there's some of the beliefs that I have around, you
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know, AI is probably the thing that's impacting
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LinkedIn and, you know, the world in general so much right
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now, but I feel like we're moving
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away and using that as the decoy that's
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distracting us from doing the real work that matters.
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I. E Having conversations with people. And it feels like if
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I use a tool, I won't have to talk to my customer. I won't have
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to use empathy to understand what it's like for them.
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And so going against the grain, I would be more popular,
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I think, if I just went, Yay, AI, here's your 20 prompts. And I will
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do some of that. But in my heart of hearts, what's right
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for me is to say, no, you need to go back and
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build relationships. And that is the
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core of success on LinkedIn. Finding those
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right people, connecting with those right people, nurturing them,
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being patient over time is going to get people
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further than the latest AI tool that can mimic your voice
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and pretend that the content was written by you, when we all can
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feel that it's not. Just wholeheartedly believe that and
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use the tools to save you time elsewhere. Like, go for, I'm not
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an anti AI person, but I just, I think I have to be a
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stand that it just can't be a part of relationships. And
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that's going to go against what a lot of people out there are going to
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tell you. And I'm going to have to be okay with that. Just like I
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was when I was telling people that company pages should be part of a business
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strategy on LinkedIn. And people like, no, that's rubbish. Like, you're
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wrong. Blah, blah, blah. I'm okay with that. And I hope that
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my listeners appreciate that. They may or may not agree with me. That's totally
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fine. Like, I hope that, you know, a group of them don't
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agree with me. That's what I love about LinkedIn is
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that we can have different voices out there. And
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the biggest fear that I have is we end up clones of each other.
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Like, that would be the thing that would make me most
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sad about LinkedIn is if it just became clones of
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clones of clones.
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If LinkedIn disappeared.
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Tomorrow, in this weird world where Microsoft just go,
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do you know what we're selling? And we're going to sell it to some company
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that aren't interested in social media anymore. What are you doing?
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Yeah, I'm going to say podcasting. Like, and I'm not saying that just because it's
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you, but it is something that I've realized. So
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I'm active on. I have two, like, three main platforms right now. So
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I have LinkedIn as my primary. I have two podcasts that I do social
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media for. B2B growth podcast is my main one. The LinkedIn branding show
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is also a podcast that's coming up to 200 episodes as well, which
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is kind of crazy when I think about it. Now what I've
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discovered is that my highest quality clients that I can work with
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are come from my podcast, hands down, every single
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time. And you can use that for your sound bites that, you know, my
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client Michelle J. Raymond says, uh, yeah, you can absolutely use
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that. Because I've done the maths, I've seen it. And
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the clients that reach out from YouTube from those videos,
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they're different. They're often looking for free advice and, you
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know, price points end up a bit out of skew, you know, like, because they
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come in with a different. They're looking for a solution or an answer
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to a question. They find that via YouTube, whereas the
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relationship building happens on podcasting. So I'd be on the
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blower straight to you going, we need to find me lots more podcast
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listener. Think I'd love to help businesses create
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podcasts as well, so that they have
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this opportunity to build relationships with people
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and not just hide behind content. Because
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I feel like content on LinkedIn for
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businesses is handed down to the
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person with the least experience that they don't want to pay for someone
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senior, and they don't set that person up for success,
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whoever it is, and they just throw them in the deep end and push them
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under the bus and say, yeah, you'll be right. Like, you know, just, you can
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write a post, you can do it. Like, it's fine. And so
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with podcasting, you will find out very quickly that
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doesn't work. Yeah. And if you don't think about
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who you're doing it for and why you're doing it, and what will they get
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out of it, and stop talking about yourself,
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then podcasting doesn't work. I've got a hundred episodes. I can
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prove to you I didn't get any business out of those episodes. Like, that was
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just me doing it because I thought I needed to do it to build my
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personal brands. And now that I realize that's
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not why I'm doing it, yes, it does help me build my personal brand, but
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that's not why I do it anymore. And, yeah, the impact
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on my business has just been pretty amazing. And
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again, I still can't believe that I'm having this
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conversation about podcasting as someone that
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just didn't get it and you just didn't. As I've said to
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you, I just read the transcripts of podcast episodes. I could never understand why
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someone would want to listen to them. And, you know, I have a few
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podcasts that I listen to. I now listen to yours. Listen to
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Jay Shreddelson's I've Got Three. I've Got
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three now I've got three, you know, like, and it's crazy to
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think that I've got three podcasts that I listen to now,
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which, you know, again, for someone who can't learn via
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listening, that's a big deal. But I have to be on the bike, at the
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00:18:28
gym, I can't be anywhere else. I have to be stuck in the one spot.
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00:18:35
You have taught a lot of people, let's be honest about it with your show.
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00:18:38
You know, you're not just your podcast, which obviously has
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00:18:41
given immense value over, you'd say a hundred episodes,
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00:18:45
but I mean you were starting the journey. I'm sure there was some valuable stuff
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00:18:48
in the first 100 as well. So that's a lot of people that you've taught
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00:18:51
to grow on LinkedIn in that time. But what's something.
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00:18:55
And I guess there's going to be a harder one to identify from your podcast
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00:18:59
audience because you predominantly don't know who many of those are. But
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00:19:03
those that have fed back to you and those that have fed back to you
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00:19:06
through the LinkedIn platform as well, what's something
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00:19:10
that they've taught you about yourself? Self belief.
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00:19:14
And that might sound like a cringe
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00:19:18
kind of comments, but the honesty of that
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00:19:22
is that I'm one of those people that is a
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00:19:26
high performer in most of the things that I do that never thinks I'm doing
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00:19:29
good enough is the story of my life. You have been on the
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00:19:33
end of my self doubt kind of conversations where I'm like, is
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00:19:37
this enough? How are my numbers? Where am I at? Especially when I was questioning
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00:19:41
whether I should keep going with the podcast, should I go by myself? Shouldn't
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00:19:44
I? And those messages that I receive from people, especially when
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00:19:48
they say things like it's easy to understand,
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00:19:52
I'm not going on like a lot of the other rubbish that's out there.
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00:19:56
They know that they can apply it, they can relate to it. Those
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00:20:00
kind of things really give me the encouragement to
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00:20:03
keep going and shut the noise up in my head,
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00:20:07
which is pretty non stop. And it's not imposter
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00:20:10
syndrome. Like, it's not that I know that I know
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00:20:14
my stuff, but I often doubt whether the
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00:20:18
people out there will love it as much as I want them to love it.
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00:20:21
I am that person that's like, do you love me? Do you love me? Do
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00:20:23
you love me? Like, it's non stop question in my head. So when I get
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00:20:27
those messages, it's that moment where
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00:20:31
the self doubt stops just, you know,
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00:20:34
briefly for me to actually enjoy this and remember
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00:20:38
that I actually genuinely love doing it now,
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00:20:42
you know, and I hope that they feel that and I hope that people
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00:20:45
understand that I show up every time and you think I've got it
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00:20:49
all together and it's easy for me and Michelle can speak really good and all
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00:20:53
that kind of other stuff, but the fact is I have
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00:20:57
to show up week after week and get past
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00:21:01
my own stuff, that I have my own version of it in my own head
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00:21:04
just like everybody else. But I choose
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00:21:08
to do this for other people and get
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00:21:12
myself out of the way. But yeah, when I get those
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00:21:15
messages, you know, the, you know, podcast
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00:21:18
reviews, they're like hen's teeth. So when they actually happen, when they're someone's
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00:21:22
written one, I'm, you know, high fiving myself behind the scenes and it
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00:21:26
just gives me that little pep in my step to keep going. And
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00:21:30
who knows how many episodes that this podcast will end up like,
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00:21:33
it's just crazy to think about. But, yeah, I have a lot of talking to
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00:21:37
do. But thank you to anyone that does leave those messages
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00:21:41
and send them to me. They genuinely mean the world
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00:21:44
to me. And yeah, I appreciate anyone that's ever done that.
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00:21:52
Yeah, look,
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00:21:55
and I have to say thank you again so much for everything that
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00:21:59
you've done to get me to this point, because you know
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00:22:03
full well that those doubts that I have when I send you texts and
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00:22:07
go, where am I? Am I? Where's my ranking? What's going on like? Or I
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00:22:10
can't make my download move or nothing's happening, or should I do this? Or can
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00:22:14
we change my intro? Or you have a while, to be fair,
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00:22:18
you haven't done that for at least six months. So we're all good. Yeah,
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00:22:21
yeah, like, I've been busy. Like, you've been lucky, though. It's just one of those
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00:22:25
things. But I, you know, I want to say to people, people like you,
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00:22:28
Neil, how I've become so
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00:22:32
successful at what I do and, you know, you take the
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00:22:35
podcasting piece of what I do, and it has leveled up
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00:22:38
significantly since you and I became friends and have worked together.
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00:22:43
So, you know, we're going to make sure that people have all the details to
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00:22:46
get in contact with you. And if you have a podcast, for God's
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00:22:49
sake, go and do one of Neil's podcast audits so that you don't
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00:22:53
put in all the work like I was and get no results. Because I can
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00:22:56
tell you it was immediate. And we've got the screenshots
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00:23:00
of his fixes all of a sudden meant that my podcast is
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00:23:04
being heard by the right people and more people, and
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00:23:08
it was just a godsend. So I appreciate your friendship.
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00:23:12
I appreciate that you are always there when, you know, it all hits the
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00:23:16
fan, especially around the podcast. And I'm like, oh my God, LinkedIn's gonna steal my
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00:23:19
podcast help. And you just jumped in. Just want to say I'm
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00:23:23
completely grateful for everything that you've done. And yeah, to
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00:23:26
anyone out there that has a podcast or wants a podcast,
Speaker:
00:23:30
Neil's the only person that I ever recommend. So thank you kindly. Appreciate
Speaker:
00:23:33
it. Thank you so. And thank you so much for asking me to do this
Speaker:
00:23:36
has been a real honor and an absol last as well. And lovely to hear
Speaker:
00:23:40
some really nice, honest, genuine, vulnerable answers as well.
Speaker:
00:23:44
So well done for wearing your heart, your sleeve. As we said, Feelings for
Speaker:
00:23:47
2026. Stories for 2026. Like, it's not
Speaker:
00:23:51
just something that I tell my clients to do. I have to show up and
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00:23:54
do it myself. So thank you for bringing those out. I couldn't have
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00:23:57
done them talking to myself. So this episode has delivered
Speaker:
00:24:01
everything I hoped. And thank you to all of the listeners, all of
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00:24:05
those people that subscribe and download. So there we are. As the
Speaker:
00:24:08
lady says, if you too want to see exponential
Speaker:
00:24:12
growth on your podcast, if you already have one in existence,
Speaker:
00:24:16
the best way to do that is to work with me on an audit. These
Speaker:
00:24:20
are comprehensive, written and videoed reports where I go
Speaker:
00:24:23
through every aspect of your podcast, from the audio to the
Speaker:
00:24:27
structure to the value offering to the way it's presented.
Speaker:
00:24:31
You know it's time. When you're ready, make sure you book your
Speaker:
00:24:34
spot@podnos.co.uk
Speaker:
00:24:38
audits. That's P O D K
Speaker:
00:24:42
N O W s.co.uk
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00:24:47
audits. And I look forward to working with you on your podcast
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00:24:50
very soon.