Why AI Content Isn’t Converting: John Benson on Persuasion, Values & What Actually Converts

 We're the only AI that's even talking about it, but it's also just conceptual for people and that's why I love helping people do this for free
 To find their values to see what words and phrases work for them and what words and phrases probably won't work for the people
 They want to attract that's a big thing to make AI more humanized also just more in tune with who you are as a person
 That's super important. Otherwise, it's just gonna become this robotic slop that no one wants. We've been pushing against that from day one
 This is right about now with Ryan Alfred a Radcast Network production
 We are the number one business show on the planet with over one million downloads a month
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 Well, it starts right about now
 Right about AI is making it easier than ever to create content, but not necessarily better
 So the real question becomes what actually makes something resonate John Benson the founder of Benson dot AI
 be in SN dot AI and is credited with inventing the video sales letter one of the most effective
 Formulas in online marketing in history now. He's focused on how human creativity and AI work together. John. Welcome
 Hey, thanks. Hey, appreciate it. Ryan. Thanks for having me, man
 We don't get like creators of inventors of necessarily certain marketing formats every day the VSL
 I hear it was an accident. Yeah, it was as much of an accident as you can happen
 It was one of those things out of necessity. I was doing YouTube videos
 But before YouTube videos were a thing to do really and I was trying to sell my second book
 My first book did really really well because I didn't write the copy. I wasn't a copywriter
 I was selling half a percent conversion
 So doing videos and it was in the fitness space. I'll do it
 I don't want to do another video. I was burned out on it
 So I decided I would just talk this is back in 2005. There wasn't any BSL at all
 It wasn't a big demand for graphically oriented videos
 That was a big thing YouTube was only going so fast back then that was spanned with was an issue
 I decided well just talk and then put the words on the screen and what's the worst that could happen and that it ended up being the first VSL
 And it crushed my conversions first time I said now
 So what if we do one longer and then it's kept getting longer and longer and so thing ended up being the long-form ugly VSL that
 Everybody knows about today
 I'm old enough to remember what that was
 I was about to be moving to New York or an eight-year stint doing newspaper ads for multiple wireless carriers and other things
 That was a glamorous advertising job. Let me tell you that everybody thanks the ad agency
 We're old as glamorous. I'm thinking back to 2005 print ads in
 467 newspapers we toyled over the littlest details now things moving so fast and I'm hearing this job
 I see how you create the VSL you were ahead of that you were headed this AI curve
 Which we're gonna talk a lot about but you can see yourself a pioneer like I sense a humbleness in you that's kind of like
 Well, you know kind of accidentally created I mean is it it's got to be something there that's driven you towards platforms
 That ultimately become what they've become now the VSL was sure luck
 Well, the sheer luck combined with those fact I studied NLP of all weird things in college
 I was fast and by the psychology of persuasion and not in a manipulative sense
 But how you can win friends and influence people so to say and I started studying NLP a Richard Banneler just came out with his
 It was a mail order course. This was like before Tony Robbins and all that stuff was really big
 I mean Tony was out not that old but I didn't know much about his stuff and then got into Tony and his stuff
 I took that NLP and also ironically I owned an advertising agency in Dallas as you know red and black
 They were the colors that everyone used for everything if you wanted something convert for 15 20 30 years
 That's why the red and black and the title case came from the idea of
 Originally every slide was a title case. I'll take credit for this everyone reads the headline
 So what if everything looked like a headline and I know that sounds ridiculous to say this out loud
 But that's literally what was it my turn if I was so I made every slide a headline every slide had to be only about
 15 to 18 words and that ended up being that very hypnotic pattern to this very day
 I still see via cells that are all title case. I stopped doing that like a long time ago thinking maybe that wasn't a thing
 But it worked really well originally the AI was very intentional back in 2010 trying to figure out how can we break language down into
 Something a computer can understand and people don't have to learn this ridiculous skill and art of copywriting because it's very hard
 We started as almost a madlibs project of filling in the blanks and then walking people through how to fill in blanks
 And how to think through language patterns and the software would do the rest and that was early nascent wasn't AI
 It was just very nascent for the training of what he eventually was going to be used in a lot of the large language models
 And then what started working with the early LLM's and I couldn't do anything back then and couldn't complete a sentence
 So we've been in this for a while and figured out I think what works and what doesn't work
 But especially how to make it sound human we had the very first long form VSL out of an AI and definitely the ones that convert
 It's pretty bad if you go to Claude or Chad and say write me a VSL even if you say write it in the style of me or Gary or whomever you want to pick as your favorite copy
 It's going to do it. It's going to miss a lot of things because it's pulling from its knowledge source
 Which is knowledge sources the internet and when you train something on the internet as far as how well to write copy
 It's going to suck because most copies suck
 So you have to be really specific training and we figured that out really early on
 We built the first rag system for copywriting software with AI and it went on from there
 Founder of BNSN.ai I paid for your software when it first came out
 BNSN the first duration I don't know how long that's been I feel like it's been four or five years ago
 Has it been longer than that three and a half yeah three and a half yeah
 I got hit on the Facebook we were doing something at the time and I paid for it for like six months
 It was very much worth it
 I had a client at the time with the agency that I was like all right
 I need something to automate some of the work with social captions other things and it helped
 I was like a six month project the client's only reason I didn't keep using it
 But it was good. It's someone from your PR team. I saw your name pop up
 I said no we're getting John on here. I've paid for his content. I know how good he is
 Literally the best thing was your Facebook ad used probably your own sauce
 Yeah, they say eating your own dog food like using your own secret sauce
 Yeah, it was great. It got me in but then the product was great. I did use it. It helped
 I
 Was ahead of my time too like you were way ahead. I was ahead using a I'd write some coffee like I was like hey
 Hey get ahead you're gonna be throwing back three and a half years ago
 You're totally worth it was right at the birth of chat GPT and wasn't even in the consciousness of everyone
 And it was a year later before anyone even knew really what chat GPT was and into this very day
 A lot of people think AI they think chat
 We're still very very early on this curve
 It seems like we're not with all the agentic stuff going on and if you go back and listen to my podcast in the coaching
 That we've done for three and a half years. We were talking agentic AI almost two years ago
 And we've been on this for a long time knowing where it's going and pretty good track record of pointing out
 What's coming up next and what people need to be focusing on?
 This is when we really made a shift recently about six or seven months ago
 And it was this aha moment my wife and I went to Spain and we were coming back from this festival
 We went to where everybody is like in this peace and love vibe and everybody's happy
 It's like where you get out of your own way for a little while and we're on the plane ride back to Rome
 And it's just kind of dawn of mass said you know what we live and die by our core values
 And with the greatest group of people
 Why would we want to attract anyone else and I always taught and copywriting you should just write according to your values
 Because when somebody reads it, it's gonna seep out
 But I would teach all these strategies for using phrases and words that align with certain values
 And now there's a whole science behind it
 You look at spiraled dynamics or you look at gerards work on this
 So I said what if we just made the AI do this?
 What if we just started talking about because we were doing it from the position of the value should come from
 What we call a blueprint but what if we actually use somebody's actual real values
 Either their personal values or their business values whatever they want or both
 And what if we weave that into the copy so that when somebody reads it
 They're going like whatever this guy is selling I want or I'm gonna go out and have a beer with this dude or
 Or I this doesn't resonate with me at all
 And so you immediately just shut down people that you don't want as customers
 But you massively attract the ones that you do
 And we started doing this and just everything started clicking
 And we realized how poorly general AI
 Even really good writing AI like Claude is probably one of the best writers
 It has to understand your values and how to subtly weave it in there
 Took us six months of training which is a long time to be training an agent
 So that's really what we're proud of right now
 We're the only AI that's even talking about it
 But it's also just conceptual for people and that's why I love helping people do this for free
 To find their values to see what words and phrases work for them
 And what words and phrases probably won't work for the people that want to attract
 That's a big thing to make AI more humanized
 Also just more in tune with who you are as a person that's super important
 Otherwise it's just gonna become this robotic slop that no one wants
 We've been pushing against that from day one
 John the word persuasion comes to mind
 We're talking sales copy
 The art of persuasion always in sales
 Can I actually understand persuasion or is it just mimicking it
 Understanding is a loaded term for short because you're dancing on
 AGI general intelligence and I would say that it understands it better than
 A minus list copywriter understands it
 In the same way that copy raiders understand things
 We can mimic things a lot of times and you'll find copy raiders that will just go out
 And find a Gary Halbert letter and change all the words to a different offer
 They don't understand what's making that work
 They're just making it work and it might work and it might not work
 To understand it that takes a lot more
 And now over the past six months in particular
 We've the rise of the agentic stuff
 AI starting to what I would consider understand
 Benson has understood it for two years
 But we had to build agents before agents were around
 They were called chains
 We had our own name for them
 We came up with nomenclature that is now used in the industry
 But we had to figure out
 This really needs to be like it needs to start with them
 With a baseline and it needs to edit it
 It needs to be smart enough to figure out if this is right or wrong
 And that's what agents do
 And they're calling tools and skills or whatever they call them
 We were doing that before that
 In that sense it would understand it
 But in the sense that it understands it
 The way that we use in human terms
 Probably not
 But it does it so well that the line is really narrow
 And it's getting more and more narrow toward the point that you can't tell the difference
 If you put your value
 What we call your buyer profile is a value alignment profile
 If you put that into your AI copy
 It sounds immediately different
 And you don't know why
 Unless you're a massive student of psychology
 And it'll pee and all this
 If you don't know why it sounds different
 It just does
 Because it's not obvious
 If they'll say that you value freedom
 It's not going to start off like
 Hey listen if you dig freedom
 You're going to love this new product
 It's nothing like that
 It's nothing is so pamphisted
 It's not a sledgehammer at all
 But when it's really subtle
 What do people that love freedom say
 How do they say this versus somebody else
 The sentence being whatever
 And that takes a lot of data
 That takes a lot of thinking
 Understanding to that point
 Yeah I think that you could qualify that as understanding
 And I've been saying this from day one
 I still think people need to know copywriting
 Meaning understand the basics of it
 Because it doesn't matter how good the AI is
 You need to understand if it's good or not
 It may sound like you
 It may but it is a good copy
 There are certain things that you simply don't know you have to test it
 But there are certain things that are just categorically
 Not the best copy that you could look at
 And I think that's why I'm big on education
 We do live coaching once a week
 Because we're just so big on teaching people
 Everything we can
 It's a massive thing for us
 And it's been a massive thing for us
 And we'll always be
 I don't think it should ever be a machine
 It should be a human working with a machine as a power tool
 And this is the power tool to end all power tools
 This is industrial revolution scale
 Change of the world kind of thing
 Yeah
 You're on the forefront of it
 You live in the rabbit hole
 You're definitely probably going down a daily
 Thinking of persuasion
 What are the core elements
 That have never changed
 In sort of that art
 In the skill of persuasion
 Persuasion is rather than
 Trying to course somebody into making a decision
 You compel them into making the decision
 That aligns with their values
 Is how do you compel someone to take action
 Based on what they already believe is true
 And the already believe is true part
 Is should be underlined
 And highlighted and circled
 And tattooed on somebody's forehead
 Because they need to already believe
 That the base of what you're saying
 The conclusion to your argument is true
 I've studied, it was a philosophy major
 So I've studied rhetoric
 And building a syllogism and copy
 Is incredibly important
 Primus one, primus two, conclusion
 People do this all the time
 And I just had the podcast with Todd Brown
 He said the argument is the most important part of it
 And I don't think it is
 I think the argument is essential
 For the most important part of persuasion
 Most important part of persuasion
 Is compelling someone based on emotion
 Based on what they believe to be true
 But that has to be centered around
 An emotional state
 It's the same thing litigators do during a trial case
 They will say the evidence points here
 The DNA is here
 You've got the fingerprints here
 But when they go to the jury
 They go now you know all this
 But what would it be like
 If you let this man go
 Can you picture the next family
 That this man may encounter
 Would you want that guilt on your conscience?
 Well, that's all emotion
 They're using emotion
 To solidify the argument that they made
 They're using emotion
 Not based on something that they don't believe
 It's something they already believe
 They didn't believe before the trial
 Started that the fingerprints were on the weapon
 They didn't know
 They just simply didn't have a belief
 They were agnostic
 But now that they believe this
 That's great
 What do they believe this never changed
 They believe in family
 They believe in justice
 They believe in etc
 That's why you feel like it
 How litigators pick juries
 If they know the case is a little flimsy
 They're not going to lean on somebody
 That has a high value of mercy
 They're going to lean on somebody
 That has a high value of justice
 And then they will talk to them
 Based on what they already believe
 So that is to me the essence of persuasion
 Is you make the argument
 But then you justify it emotionally
 Based on what people already believe
 I've always said
 The people think with their head
 And they buy with their heart
 I had a dream once
 That I made that statement up
 I don't think I did
 I think I heard it from someone really smart
 Like 10 years ago
 Probably someone like yourself
 When you were talking
 I was thinking about mentalists
 They're really strong of persuasion
 And making you believe you see something
 Even if you really didn't
 That's where the ethical part comes in
 Where we're not trying to fool anyone
 Into believing something
 That they don't ultimately believe
 We're trying to dig into
 And elevate beliefs, core values
 And other things that align
 To persuade them to buy something
 Matching aces here
 Versus we're not trying to make a diamond a spade
 Am I getting it?
 You are very, very succinctly too
 The one thing that I want to say
 Is this philosophy of selling things
 Based on ethical persuasion
 Is harder to pull off in say the e-commerce space
 Where you've got your selling t-shirts
 Okay, why should they buy this t-shirt
 Or this t-shirt when they're just basically identical
 Okay, let's say they're identical t-shirts
 Well, that's much harder to pull this off with
 You can still use the same principles
 By simply saying
 A t-shirt in general will give you x, y, and z
 When you already believe
 That this emotional state of ab and c is already true
 But it's much more difficult
 To do this people buy an impulse
 And they just wanted the best deal
 And those kind of things
 Where this comes in handy
 And where it's essential
 Is when these products
 That can be competitive
 But there's something that really does
 Or it has the potential to alter somebody's life
 On a fundamental level
 A t-shirt probably won't do that
 Unless you don't have any clothes
 Then you would just give somebody the t-shirt
 But talk about somebody who wants to take a fish oil capsule
 Something where I wrote a lot in the fitness space
 When I originally started in
 So there was a lot of weight loss
 Kind of offers
 Somebody needs to lose weight
 Somebody wants to improve their heart health etc
 We focus as copywriters on
 Not just the weight loss
 Or in the fish oil case
 Not just this is going to help you lower triglycerides
 You're not getting enough of these essential fatty acids
 Which are important for metabolic health and all that
 We focus on all that stuff is a given
 We just ask one question
 And this is a great formula for persuasion
 All of what I just said
 You can lower your triglycerides
 And I just always teach people the simple sentence
 So that you can
 Fill in the gap
 So now you can or so you can
 Or so that you can or whatever you want to say
 You can lower your triglycerides
 So now you can
 What?
 That's the thing that matters
 The lower triglycerides is the syllogism
 Is the logic
 You can rest easier next time you go to your
 Partiologist your heart doctor
 It's going to look at you and go
 Wow I haven't seen your labs look this good in 10 years
 Well the heart like this you might live to 100
 That means just think about how many more years
 Decades you can have with your grandkids
 And maybe even their children
 Nothing I'm saying is not true
 It's just all completely rational logical
 But it's emotional
 And it's something they already believe
 It's because they already believe
 They have a value of family
 I know that I know the avatar inside now
 For this offer
 Not every offer is going to have a value of family
 If you're writing for the pick-up audience
 And you're writing the single guy
 The value of kids is going to be way down on the scale
 It might be there kind of hidden underneath the surface
 It probably is there
 They're trying to get to it in a roundabout kind of way
 But a lot of people just don't share it
 So you need to figure out what their values are
 Confidence, freedom, power
 These are if you wanted to write to that audience
 That's basically what we do with AI now
 What we used to have to do through lots and lots and lots of research
 Lots of practice
 Which is kind of cool
 When I think of so that you can
 I feel like we're tapping into the why
 And a lot of times you hear people say
 You know what's your why
 People that have no why they do things
 And what matters to them
 Which is these avatars
 That's what we're tapping into the why
 Why they take it is because of why they do anything
 Because these core values, core tenets
 Matter to them
 Isn't so that you can't
 Isn't that a why
 It is the why
 But it's a series of why
 So many people think for example
 I could take a visual example
 For those that are not going to bore you with fish oil
 They'd have
 I used to take it
 And then I was like
 Is this even doing anything for me
 Yeah, it's incredibly important
 Especially if you have any sort of Nordic genes in you
 Like I do
 It's like I ridiculously low levels of omega-3s in my diet
 It's for one thing that the way I eat for fitness
 Training and stuff
 It's not high
 It's not very conducive to that
 But also if you have naturally higher triglycerides
 And there's a lot of reasons
 Why people take them and make it through fatty acids
 But so many people as a copywriter
 You would write
 You would talk to that
 Because a lot of people
 They're educated now
 Not when the fish oil first came out
 But now they're educated enough to know
 That okay, I know I want to take this
 Because I want my lipids to improve
 I want my heart health to improve
 They know the general basics
 What kind of a story can you tell
 Around what an improved heart looks like
 Because people know that it's like
 Well, yeah, of course you want to avoid a heart attack
 Of course you want to not end up a heart crippled
 These are kind of obvious
 But if you stayed it like that in the copy
 It's like when I first looked into this
 I was looking into it because I'm like you
 I want to avoid an early heart attack who doesn't
 And I don't want to end up a heart
 No one wants to end up a heart crippled
 I want to have a long, healthy, wonderful life
 What's the one thing you didn't think about
 Was to X
 I didn't think about how awesome this was going to be
 For allowing me to eat more of my favorite foods
 Without spiking my insulin levels
 Because believe it or not, here's how this works
 Now I can eat my occasional Oreos
 And my insulin stays
 I'm just giving you any example
 What I'll be talking about
 I can have this other benefit
 And I as a copywriter
 You would have these series of benefits
 And another thing I didn't know about this
 Which is crazy
 Is it really helps target some of the stubborn
 Valley fat
 Because this fat is made of this brown adipose tissue
 But you can see where research is super super important
 And I'm just riffing stuff off the top of my head
 But what AI does very well
 Yes, how well does I understand
 AI is like what Benson in particular
 Is very good at digging into this research
 And it's about to be even better
 Because we're about to unload a research assistant
 People can tap onto
 If they want the extra research stuff
 To go out and dig up all this data
 And you can know like here are nine extra things
 This thing will do that you didn't know about
 And then you could say
 Just now write it in benefit form
 Oh this now lets me do this
 Well now it feels like this
 But now it's still filtering through people's core values
 And so now it's going to sound like
 It's going to sound like me
 Versus sound like somebody else
 So yeah, so that's where the art of copywriting needs science
 It's like there's a science there
 That you need to be persuaded
 You need to have data
 You need to have evidence
 People really do
 By how they do make decisions
 That center around evidence
 But are triggered by emotion
 People say you buy on logic
 You justify an emotion
 That's another way of saying it
 Look honey, I got this car
 I bought this car
 You're like buying it complete
 Because you want it
 But you're going to justify
 Sorry, but you buy an emotion
 You justify a reason
 But it gets 62 miles to the gallon
 We're going to save tons
 And look it's electric
 It's great for the environment
 So that we can help save the environment
 And help save the rounds
 I'm thinking of my head
 So I can go 0 to 60 in three freaking seconds
 How should entrepreneurs think about collaborating with AI more
 And instead of like this notion of
 It's competing for their job
 Or it's going to take over the world
 It's something I've been saying for a long time
 But it just one of these things
 I just spit out
 And it just kind of came out
 I'm working with a guy named Rich Shefferen
 You may know
 And then we're like okay
 How do we explain what we're doing to people
 That know a little bit about AI
 But they're certainly not talking about
 Creating MCP server
 They don't know all the jargon
 And what open claw does
 And getting external
 And they don't know that stuff
 How do we cram it into the middle here
 And I said
 Basically what we're doing
 Is we're creating a second brain
 We're actually cloning ourselves
 But how many times have you said
 Man, I wish you were two of me
 And then I thought a little deeper
 Because my wife pro me on this one
 And I say it's not a clone of you
 It's a drastically improved clone of you
 That never forgets anything
 That's how I think of working with AI
 Now you don't have to go to the
 The link that we're talking about
 Where you dump your entire life
 Into obsidian folders
 Or anything like that
 But when people come working with tools
 Like Benson or whatever
 This is just simply allowing you to have a tool
 That can be an improved version of you
 In the art of copywriting
 So obviously just one thing
 But it's one that doesn't forget
 It's one that doesn't
 Because you will forget
 I will forget most of what I know about copywriting
 Even as a teacher of it
 Unless I'm teaching it all the time
 Or using it all the time
 I have a guarantee you
 I've forgotten things that could make me a million dollars
 That's the one thing I talk to people
 That are a little AI afraid
 I say look AI will help you remember something
 That will eventually make you a lot of money
 Because you have forgotten so many things
 That could make you millions of dollars
 You have forgotten it
 You simply buried the treasure somewhere
 And you don't know where the map is
 You don't know
 And it's not your fault
 Because human memory is flawed
 It's just the way
 If you look at how we remember things
 Our memories are incredibly flaky
 So many false memories
 We will experience the memory
 Then we'll re-remember it in a different way
 And that will get stored as the memory
 It just happens to every human on the planet
 AI doesn't have the problem
 So your clone of yourself
 Won't have the sum of the hangups that you have
 And most of all it will integrate things
 You can delegate it to do things
 It will do things that you won't do
 Because you're lazy
 We all would rather do something else
 Than to do that
 And the AI doesn't have that preference
 So that's the way I kind of coach entrepreneurs through it
 So think of it as like the ultimate partner
 And if everyone on your team
 It isn't about firing your team
 I think that's a ridiculous way of looking at it
 My team
 I'm giving every single person the task of learning this stuff
 Because now they're getting stuff done
 That they couldn't even fathom doing four months ago
 My CMO guy just built our own CRM
 He did it in less than a week
 Now that wasn't possible even four months ago
 He's not a coder
 He's never coded anything in his life
 How much more can the people on my team do
 And how much faster can they do it
 If they can do it faster
 That just has more time with their families
 That's the way that we're looking at it
 Yeah, I have a totally different thing
 If we're going to talk about copy
 How you should look at AI and copy
 We're very specific about that
 But it needs to be more human
 Which is what you're doing
 And it's like that human layer over top of
 Pulling all that memory
 And using all those values
 But then humanizing it
 People are going to lose jobs over AI
 And it's not as simple as saying
 Well people that use AI will not lose
 No, it's people that are really like
 Continue to be what we are as human
 Ingenuity
 Creativity
 And those that keep that
 And push it with the AI
 I did the same thing
 Retail store for collectibles now
 And built the whole platform
 That's both CRM
 Inventory management
 All kinds of things
 We're moving into this land of app
 One of one app software
 Literally you can build what you want
 That you need exactly
 We've been in a world where we use this platform
 Because it does eight tenths of what we need
 But you can build exactly what you need
 Now affordably and fast
 And deploy it
 John, we could talk for days about this stuff
 B-N-S-N-D-A-I
 You want to get some details on that
 Vincent, by the way, is my last name without the vowels
 That's how that came out
 And it's just kind of one of those things
 That just happened
 Everyone loved the name
 So we kept it
 I was like, okay, cryptic and cool
 I kind of like it
 But as far as what we've been talking about
 About getting people's values
 Your company or your personal values
 I use my personal values
 I want people in my tribe
 That resonate with me
 That doesn't mean that they have to believe everything
 I believe their core values
 Are essentially going to be mirrored with mine
 What happens is
 As you end up with far fewer refunds
 Your traffic costs go way down
 Because I can target much more effectively
 And I just get rid of tire kickers
 So there's a lot of things that go on here
 What I wanted to do is create a tool
 That would give that to everyone that wanted it for free
 If you go to free buyer profile.com
 You can go through our process
 Basically you'll be answering questions
 For about 10 or 15 minutes
 At the end of it
 You'll get a 15 or so page report
 Of the words and phrases
 That you should use to attract your audio buyers
 And the words of read you should not be using
 The psychology behind it
 The NLP
 Everything you can think of
 It's a really really thorough report
 I think it would really help you marketing out a whole lot
 I love I really appreciate that offer John
 We'll have that in the show notes
 And anything else
 Any other ways that they can learn more
 We drop the website
 We'll have all that in the show notes
 Any other details we should mention John
 If JohnBenson.com reports us YouTube
 Brother
 That's my YouTube channel
 If they want to check out hundreds of videos
 On a ton of copywriting topics
 John, I really appreciate you coming on
 This is my pleasure, right
 This is a blast
 Thanks for having me
 Hey guys, you want to find us
 Ryan is right.com
 We'll have that free offer from John
 Let me tell you
 I've used his stuff
 It was three and a half years ago
 I can only imagine
 I'm going to get on there now
 I'm going to go check it out myself
 Because he is a master at copy
 But also humanizing in a way
 That ultimately persuades the right people
 In the right ways
 We appreciate you for listening
 We'll see you next time
 I'm right about now
 This has been right about now
 With Ryan Alford
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