Unzipping the Art of Handbag Design and Branding with Industry Leader, Nancy Forman

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Hi and welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast with your host, emily Boomenthal, handbag Designer Expert and Handbag Fairy Godmother, where we cover everything about handbags, from making, marketing, designing and talking to handbag designers and industry experts about what it takes to make a successful handbag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We have Nancy Foreman with us today from the accessory think tank.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Nancy, how far do we go back?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>How many years, with the Zee?

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<v Nancy Forman>I had heard of you and your success in the initial handbag award creation.

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<v Nancy Forman>How many years ago was that?

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<v Nancy Forman>Oh my God, 2007.

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<v Nancy Forman>So I mentioned you in 2009 or 10, when my clients were beginning to win awards.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, I had wanted to meet you.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>That's so funny.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So you were a merchant by trade?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean, I've had you speak at my class, We've done talks before but just for the sake of this podcast and our new listeners, what's your background?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I love hearing this because it so speaks to why you are so good at what you do.

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<v Nancy Forman>Thank you, emily, and really it's a thrill to be talking with you.

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<v Nancy Forman>I always learn a lot and you're quite inspiring.

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<v Nancy Forman>So thank you for having me to share as succinctly as possible.

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<v Nancy Forman>I am a merchant.

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<v Nancy Forman>It will always be ingrained in who I am personally and professionally.

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<v Nancy Forman>I started my career with Blinnie Nels and was with the Nels for 14 years in merchandising and buying, and that's at the time for myself, recognizing my great love of products and my talent and skill in understanding the marketplace, the competitive landscape and merchandising.

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<v Nancy Forman>So I am self-talked on the design aspects over the course of about 17 years, yet still always apply my thinking as a merchant and a very, very valid understanding of the competitive landscape in the aspect of how a consumer thinks to, how a buyer thinks, to how to maximize existing and future opportunities.

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<v Nancy Forman>What do you think the biggest mistake the designers we've worked with, like, what do you think some of those things go again, because I have a laundry list of those Making expectations in regard to how to literally start from point A to B to C, understanding the challenges of development and costs by country, meaning I can produce in New York or Los Angeles and essentially oversee it and do it in more real time.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yet what are those costs and how will that affect my total cost?

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<v Nancy Forman>Or I can go overseas and potentially create something and then have a thousand or 2,000 units in a warehouse.

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<v Nancy Forman>So one this initial understanding of expectation of product development and also the real understanding of managing expectation of growth, as over and over again I have seen, brands who get to what they think the finish line is, which is product development, end up at a trade show before their, which is a very big investment, don't have the success that they want and close their business.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, I mean you and I both have seen people who have hired experts, whatever they are, because there are plenty of people out there that do what you and I both do.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Well, I don't do what you do.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So I just want to make that very clear, because you're a one of one, nancy.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Nobody does what you do as well as you in terms of product development, trend and so forth.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>But they take someone, or someone takes them on and promises them the sun, moon and stars, charges them an offensive amount, and then they have one bag for our conversation sake, one bag to show for it.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And then they come to you with like well, I don't have much money, but I have this one bag and I spent 20,000 developing one bag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Why am I not in sacks?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And it's like, oh damn.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I could tell you a thousand reasons why you're not in sacks, because there's a hundred thousand people just like you.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Number one.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Number two you've blown through your money.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Number three product development costs money, whether you do it on your own or you do it with someone like you, right?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And number four understanding your customer, designing into that price point, understanding where they shop, why they shop, what their needs are from ethnographically speaking, so as you own the economically, geographically, all of that.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>But to develop a product that people will actually want and need, it's a process and it requires a lot of research.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And then, as far as I'm concerned, that research is free.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>It's free Like.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You can do this research without spending a lot of money, comparatively to how much you spend developing said product, would you agree?

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<v Nancy Forman>Yes, and also there's a way to approach research in a very strategic way and also recognizing it is as a merchant.

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<v Nancy Forman>I would say it begins and ends with products yet as a consultant and also living every single aspect of brand creation to sales strategy.

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<v Nancy Forman>The looking at the competitively really goes beyond what shapes, what colors, but also really looking at supply chain transparency, consumer social responsibility, where the materials come from, how they're made, who makes them.

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<v Nancy Forman>So it's way more intense in regards to a comprehensive understanding of brand strategy increase.

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<v Nancy Forman>So that's also how I've evolved.

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<v Nancy Forman>I mean, I talk about power and shape all day long.

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<v Nancy Forman>The reality is that a brand today has the opportunity to also navigate and create through a very comprehensive strategy of consumer social responsibility and supply chain material and who's making it, and I think that I have created a small batch when in owns strategy to help navigate for startups that they don't go out of business.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>What key points would you suggest in terms of strategy that you've developed, or template, or eyes?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>What would you start with?

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<v Nancy Forman>Okay, in regards to the strategy which I suggest for any brand and I I feel like this is a method that we put together and it has been well received and recognized is, over and over again, a brand will come to me and say what backs are we making, right?

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<v Nancy Forman>Or jewelry are we making?

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<v Nancy Forman>What decorative home are we making?

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<v Nancy Forman>First and foremost, we step back and we understand the essence and soul and ethos of the brand positioning, the DNA yeah, yeah, it used to be easy to create a bag.

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<v Nancy Forman>I mean, you and I both know we lived it.

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<v Nancy Forman>Take a brand, fix it up, change it around.

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<v Nancy Forman>It can be a million or eight million dollars or in three years, right, raw consumer demands and the retailer Evermore.

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<v Nancy Forman>So the consumer a real, clear understanding of the brand, its value is its positioning, its reason for being its consumer.

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<v Nancy Forman>So it's your responsibility.

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<v Nancy Forman>And, as I've said minutes back, supply chain transparency and that the product is Made at the glee.

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<v Nancy Forman>Right, you know, over and over, alternative brands that move away from leather.

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<v Nancy Forman>Just because it is not leather is not mean that it's that stuff.

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<v Nancy Forman>You environmental approach to development.

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<v Nancy Forman>The other thing I found is that there are many brands you say work sustainable.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, no, is a hundred percent sustainable.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yes, it's in progress.

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<v Nancy Forman>So, to really communicate that way and in creating this brand ethos for blueprints, it keeps every department on the same page, because we are startups, we don't have the luxury of having an organization, organization and building where we can meet each week or every day to try about where we're going from visual to Instagram to website, to logo, to font system.

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<v Nancy Forman>So this deck keeps all the independent contractors on the same page and Gary often Is a catalyst in opening the door to really inspire Manufacturing partners or future partners who want to get behind the brand.

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<v Nancy Forman>So that's one thing.

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<v Nancy Forman>And then also, as you asked, in regards to what are the biggest mistakes, as you touched on, it's this managing expectation and if I hire this person and pay them this much money for a logo or a website or Instagram strategy or social media or a product, for that we better.

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<v Nancy Forman>And I really think that it is a process of a clock and all the arm movement of each of the Times or sections are your partnership, get moved together, and that Everybody should be committed to the outcome of the brands.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, right, that's of the brand as it launches and its recognition, not hiring a partner, or a strategist or a logo designer who wants their baby Exile and is not involved because a brand, especially when it launches, there has to be a team that is proactive to the fact that Maybe the colors are off, maybe the logo needs to be recised, maybe the product is too expensive, maybe the Instagram is not working.

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<v Nancy Forman>How to have a team that is committed after you watch well, a couple things.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>One, I call that basement to Beyonce that's my hashtag that they get a little bit of attention.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Or designers pay someone and Automatically, the assumption is that this person is going to be the panacea of my Brand, right dollar.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>In a dream, I have an idea.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I'm a creator.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I'm a designer.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Now I've employed someone who's basically going to Convert these thoughts, dreams, hopes and sketches and turn me into a viable brand so I can tell people I am a real designer sold at retail.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So that's one.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We both know that that's fallacy at its best.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Number two Not everybody has the luxury or the wherewithal to find an ANSI, so you know to do all that on their own.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We want to kind of decrypt how and what that looks like.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So if I'm a handbag designer and I've created my first bag and I've paid I'm 5000 at a minimum for a local manufacturer per se domestic to create my first sample, what?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>What do you as a merchant do with that?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>From there, like if someone comes to you say that 5k is free street.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I always say 5k because nobody gets their first back.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Right.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And just if you go to these manufacturers for sampling, it's the lowest hanging fruit of customer where you could say what do you not like, what do you want changed, and lo and behold, you get charged again and again and again and again.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So the sample might not be, but by the time you're done, you've dropped a minimum of 5k right.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Another point is an NDA non-disclosure agreement.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>It is always a tell for new designers or people who are a little bit too green and it can come back and bite them in terms of being put at the bottom of the production list or being charged.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>That much more is giving an NDA to a retailer, giving an NDA to a manufacturer, giving an NDA to a sample maker, because In this day and age you have to show what you've done in order to get discovered.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Notice the conversation.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And if you're showing up as a quote-unquote, nobody with an NDA, damn.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I know.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I can like put you at the bottom of my production list because you don't know, or I can charge you that much more Because you don't know.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And as a retailer or a buyer, I'm not gonna even take your call because I don't know you and I don't care.

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<v Nancy Forman>I see an NDA with a retailer is Something that I I've seen it, I have.

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<v Nancy Forman>So I can't write.

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<v Nancy Forman>When it comes to an NDA, I think it's the approach there's nothing wrong with an NDA being signed and it's just a reminder for all of us and I think it's the approach with which the NDA is Delivered and communicated, because that's fair, frankly, because my clients, I have NDA signed all the time and it's really the delivery and communication.

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<v Nancy Forman>That's an.

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<v Nancy Forman>I understand your level of expertise.

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<v Nancy Forman>It's just you're an industry reminder and most often the manufacturer who is in place is used to it.

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<v Nancy Forman>I will say I have seen, not within the US but overseas, literally submitted something to a jewelry manufacturer and saw it was a design I developed which was a design.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, it's not got with an NDA, you know so it's gotta be done right.

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<v Nancy Forman>Often in 99%, no problem, but I don't have an issue it.

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<v Nancy Forman>In regards to your question on manufacturing yeah, it's all about budget and time and experience.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, so a Brand or designer needs to have that in-person experience To create their products and 5k is within the budget, so be it.

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<v Nancy Forman>You know they're ordinary manufacturers in New York.

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<v Nancy Forman>I know throughout the world by looking in a bag about Trump watch it's going to cost in sample production Mlq landed right now.

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<v Nancy Forman>So openly.

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<v Nancy Forman>Also, if backing up the brand or the client designer really understands in advance for factor, me taking a look at the Rubik's Cube of strategy, right, yeah, and that again is also what should be done.

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<v Nancy Forman>Your product is made, yeah, look at the options and the pros and cons and sometimes the 5k is the right choice because of China's money, right, you know frustration, yeah, so you really have to look at that as a total to make the decision, because you know yeah, there's so much to cover right now.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>But even in terms of sustainability, are you working with brands that are still wanting leather?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Because I work with, actually recently within my handbag designer, incubator designers that were hell bent on keeping leather and having customers understand the beauty, the joy, the seat, feel, touch, that tangibility factor of a leather bag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And how do you approach that versus, you know, from a sustainable element of saying no, no, no, no, no.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, like, let's make sure that, because you can't guarantee that the peace goods are dead stock, nor should you in some capacity or cases, you know how do you integrate that into the assortment?

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<v Nancy Forman>Well why I believe that there's incredible beauty in artisanal aspects and, in a sense, approach to well lived products that come from leather.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, I have such incredible relationships with so many tenories and owners of tenories, so understanding their positioning, how they manufacture their tending processes, so agree completely that there is a place for leather and then there is a place for alternative materials and the reason for those reflects the positioning.

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<v Nancy Forman>And eat those books.

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<v Nancy Forman>The brand is what they stand for, yeah, or they want to hand them where they want to make it Right, exactly First, and no one answer.

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<v Nancy Forman>And, frankly, there is their incredible strategies and implementations happening at both weights alternative materials and with leathers, everybody wants to be better.

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<v Nancy Forman>You know, obviously, if it's a designer who is truly, truly committed to the ethnicity of all beings, right, then they're not going to use other Right, and there's a place for both.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We're kind of jumping around in terms of all this, but what do you see in terms of production factories, countries that people may not know of or think of in terms of getting their bags made, and do you thoughts on China?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>No, china.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Like I know, so many brands right now are just using their China factories for sampling, but not production.

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<v Nancy Forman>I have found and find because we produce throughout the United States and India, different parts of India and China, Italy, Romania, Portugal and more that.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Every country has its own and also has their ability for domestic production.

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<v Nancy Forman>I will tell you that China for such incredible relationships and partnerships, both in production and material development, and jewelry and decorative home in China and then in Europe.

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<v Nancy Forman>So you know it really comes down to again where does the brand want to be in regards to price, quality and MLQ?

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<v Nancy Forman>Right, because there is no reason to develop in China If you're not going to produce there.

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<v Nancy Forman>I mean to your point.

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<v Nancy Forman>You have people sampling.

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<v Nancy Forman>Well, the handwork is extraordinary, yeah, right, yet there's a lot of writable.

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<v Nancy Forman>The biggest human factory in the world is in Vietnam, right, the reality is that the MLQ is for the thousand, three thousand, so we can't do that.

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<v Nancy Forman>But you know, again, we produce in Seoul for all over.

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<v Nancy Forman>You know and frankly I also feel and do this that in order to be informed from the beginning, one of the first things to do is also look and say again if I produce it here, this is where it's going to land in regards to MQ, price, quality and timing versus here.

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<v Nancy Forman>And it may be that I start here, right, yet when I'm producing, I'm paying a higher to price.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yet I know that my goal is to hit this retail, to want it to be, so it sells.

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<v Nancy Forman>My margins are smaller, I wear my volume, I already know where I can go, right, so that if retailer X says Emily, I absolutely love what you're doing, your prices are too high and you don't already know where you can go, hmm, Right, what's MQ?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>just to be clear.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>The order quantity, ok.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And in terms of a landed price, now there's a variety of pricing.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Right, there's freight on board, which is FOB.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>There is a land to duty paid, which is landed, ldp.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>With your designers, how do you typically do the pricing when you're saying landed?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So how would you think about?

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<v Nancy Forman>that what happens is internationally.

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<v Nancy Forman>You know there's a freight forwarder that manages, so that there's less of a surprise, right?

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<v Nancy Forman>The thing that's been very challenging today is shipping.

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<v Nancy Forman>Yep, dipping costs are outrageous, yeah, so go ahead and when you're sinking through the five-plus dollar bag to be made in your city, right, right, yep, and that means the shipping costs literally over time, people.

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<v Nancy Forman>That.

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<v Nancy Forman>So, again, being really clear in the short and longer term on what is going to come up, right, you make the right decision.

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<v Nancy Forman>I would love to talk about what's happening in the market.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, no, I would.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I actually wanted to because I want to cover, you know, sweet spot of pricing where you think for different markets, and then also make sure when we wrap up we speak about color's trends, silhouettes, where we think things are going, Because you know, I want to make sure that we have you on at least one separate three months just to get the Nancy update, Because this covers, I mean, right now, everything we're speaking about is pretty timeless.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, to learn how to create a bag from sketch inception to shelf, to repeat business, to customer acquisition, to sustainability, to strategy, Like there's a whole kind of you could draw boxes and arrows for what the correct pathway to do it.

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<v Nancy Forman>Well, I also feel that you know being an entrepreneur or a new designer.

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<v Nancy Forman>Or even an established designer who needs a wake up Right, who needs a wake up the as in reference and then really think about the clock or pie and really have to put a strategy together.

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<v Nancy Forman>As an entrepreneur, to wear so many hats in order to really understand.

00:20:33.080 --> 00:20:50.314
<v Nancy Forman>So it's also almost like within a month on to ensure that you devote time to say a strategy and how do you do that and how that needs to understand the competitive landscape and other brands and identifying the focus list.

00:20:50.829 --> 00:21:06.221
<v Emily Blumenthal>So sorry I may started on that, my sexy SWAT, which I live for, and doing a competitive analysis and oh well, yeah, we definitely need to do more than one conversation, but let's just move over right now to pricing and sweet spots and where you think that's going.

00:21:07.090 --> 00:21:10.799
<v Nancy Forman>Contemporary, modern luxury is really my expertise.

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.940
<v Nancy Forman>I know that there's mass and off price and volume.

00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:26.443
<v Nancy Forman>I know the levels in the meetings and so I'm not going to talk about those competitive 59, 69, 99, 199 prices, because it is not my market.

00:21:26.443 --> 00:21:28.814
<v Nancy Forman>Yet it is salt in the master's.

00:21:28.814 --> 00:21:31.099
<v Nancy Forman>The classes sell, the classes with the masters.

00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:52.131
<v Nancy Forman>Nothing wrong with my am very, very focused on the radiation and creation of something that doesn't exist and then shall to navigate and create that very in reality and then communication to the consumer and the retailer, and with that then the positioning is more expensive on every level.

00:21:52.131 --> 00:21:57.080
<v Nancy Forman>Yet the minimums that one has to invest are controlled Right.

00:21:57.080 --> 00:22:00.919
<v Nancy Forman>It's not just what you mean, it's what you spend right and what you make.

00:22:00.919 --> 00:22:02.355
<v Nancy Forman>You can have a healthy business.

00:22:02.355 --> 00:22:06.440
<v Nancy Forman>You could be a million dollar business and be profitable, and you could be a million dollar quick.

00:22:07.730 --> 00:22:11.719
<v Emily Blumenthal>Oh, so what you said, contemporary modern per se.

00:22:11.719 --> 00:22:16.857
<v Emily Blumenthal>What retailer would that fall into and what sweet spot would you speak to with that?

00:22:17.951 --> 00:22:19.458
<v Nancy Forman>That would be on a subject.

00:22:19.458 --> 00:22:35.157
<v Nancy Forman>I was in London last month, you know, on separate news, and it's very similar to your bird doors or sacks whereby the job them is send, you know, really like next level assortments of fraud out in your mess, and yet there's a contemporary for it.

00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Emily Blumenthal>So one of our clients what retailer in the US would you say that would fall in?

00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:51.999
<v Nancy Forman>I was thinking about the success of our clients to get Nordstrom I love Nordstrom, love, love, love Nordstrom and their willingness to take a chance on NUness.

00:22:51.999 --> 00:23:07.692
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah Well, anything else, although Nordstrom, I feel, has a broader assortment of NUness, I think those two obviously sacks and those days those are more challenging and they take a little bit longer.

00:23:07.692 --> 00:23:10.078
<v Nancy Forman>And then for faculty stores.

00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.097
<v Emily Blumenthal>Right, I think don't sleep on them People shout.

00:23:14.890 --> 00:23:18.179
<v Nancy Forman>I actually actually love working with the specialty stores.

00:23:18.179 --> 00:23:18.740
<v Nancy Forman>Me too.

00:23:19.931 --> 00:23:24.674
<v Emily Blumenthal>The feedback, the willingness to take a chance, the willingness to pay upfront.

00:23:25.589 --> 00:23:57.115
<v Nancy Forman>So, and really throughout the country, there are pacemakers who really understand our customer, whether it's in Iowa, oklahoma, alabama, palm Beach, neville, florida, baltimore, chicago, and I continue to follow the stores through signing up for their marketing emails, to following those key stores on Instagram yeah, those key merchants on LinkedIn.

00:23:57.115 --> 00:24:07.040
<v Nancy Forman>I have immense respect for those specialty stores that have been able to develop curated assortments and really be a taste maker for their customers.

00:24:07.549 --> 00:24:08.994
<v Emily Blumenthal>So what price point would you say?

00:24:08.994 --> 00:24:10.660
<v Emily Blumenthal>That would be A sweet spot.

00:24:11.010 --> 00:24:14.690
<v Nancy Forman>Oh, it's $495 to $795.

00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:19.881
<v Emily Blumenthal>$795 would be for a full leather or not even necessarily full leather Leather.

00:24:21.771 --> 00:24:23.675
<v Nancy Forman>You know, the thing is we're analyzing this.

00:24:23.675 --> 00:24:33.155
<v Nancy Forman>The other day with the small factory and I'm working at, bobad made in leather and non-leather Right, actually it was non-leather.

00:24:33.155 --> 00:24:38.584
<v Nancy Forman>We're really using new alternative best of materials that are more expensive to make.

00:24:38.584 --> 00:24:40.750
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, it was less bio-based per sense.

00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:43.070
<v Nancy Forman>So they're very expensive A meter.

00:24:43.070 --> 00:24:45.115
<v Nancy Forman>One of them is $35.

00:24:45.115 --> 00:24:50.214
<v Nancy Forman>Wow, wow, so really almost equal to leather.

00:24:50.214 --> 00:24:56.357
<v Nancy Forman>Yet the consumer understanding that, whether you can take up, just have to be careful.

00:24:56.357 --> 00:25:02.355
<v Nancy Forman>I think I know there is still an exception by most consumers that leather has more value.

00:25:02.355 --> 00:25:04.961
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, look at Stelok, right?

00:25:05.041 --> 00:25:07.674
<v Emily Blumenthal>Right, but I could go back and forth on this.

00:25:07.674 --> 00:25:13.215
<v Emily Blumenthal>Because I buy into sustainability, I understand that I totally on the same page with you.

00:25:13.215 --> 00:25:19.363
<v Emily Blumenthal>However, there's a smaller number of customers that at least that can afford that price point.

00:25:19.363 --> 00:25:25.542
<v Emily Blumenthal>That will make sure that that's their core driving force for purchasing that product.

00:25:25.542 --> 00:25:31.272
<v Emily Blumenthal>So my opinion was always, if you're going to have that, it should be part of your assortment, not all of your assortment.

00:25:31.272 --> 00:25:33.859
<v Emily Blumenthal>In terms of the materials, because at least you should see.

00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:37.819
<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, take a temperature check to see how does your customer react to that.

00:25:38.269 --> 00:25:38.691
<v Nancy Forman>And I have.

00:25:38.691 --> 00:25:44.678
<v Nancy Forman>And do you know, there I was looking at it the other day and I'll tell you, unless that's the DNA of your brand exclusively.

00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:46.395
<v Emily Blumenthal>So you know that's the other side.

00:25:46.395 --> 00:25:58.554
<v Emily Blumenthal>In terms of where you think color is going and silhouette, this is like my favorite part when I was on a call with a retailer that is lower price point it was interesting to hear about.

00:25:58.554 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, hands-free still super important.

00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.272
<v Emily Blumenthal>Crossbody still super important.

00:26:03.272 --> 00:26:06.160
<v Emily Blumenthal>Clutch not so much, but that's not their customer.

00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:10.901
<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, clutch, in my opinion, goes much more specialty or mass or high end.

00:26:10.901 --> 00:26:16.051
<v Emily Blumenthal>It's kind of like if you're going into a certain retailer, you're not going there to buy a party bag.

00:26:16.051 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Emily Blumenthal>You want that party bag to be super cheap or super expensive or super novelty.

00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:20.981
<v Emily Blumenthal>My opinion.

00:26:20.981 --> 00:26:26.060
<v Emily Blumenthal>So, in terms of color and silhouette, where do you think things are going in terms of what you've?

00:26:26.102 --> 00:26:26.342
<v Nancy Forman>seen.

00:26:26.342 --> 00:26:32.659
<v Nancy Forman>So I want to say and communicate this is my opinion, being self-spot, on development and design.

00:26:33.349 --> 00:26:39.180
<v Emily Blumenthal>I think you have to move past by saying self-taught, because at this point you're an industry expert, like you're already validated.

00:26:39.589 --> 00:26:53.638
<v Nancy Forman>You designed a design process, getting caught up in fall, winter, this spring, summer, these colors, and I need to create this color store where you're peering towards one seed and that by the time I get to market I look like a markdown Right.

00:26:53.638 --> 00:27:00.097
<v Nancy Forman>So it's one thing if you're a bigger brand, but if you're a newer brand, you know you talk about color and let's talk about it and I'm going to share.

00:27:00.097 --> 00:27:10.856
<v Nancy Forman>The reality is that you put a color palette together that reflects and eats those on your product, yet that all of them have legs that can sell winter, spring, summer and fall.

00:27:10.856 --> 00:27:13.721
<v Nancy Forman>Thank God, you said that, yeah, reality, okay.

00:27:13.721 --> 00:27:16.920
<v Nancy Forman>And so then you say well then, don't I look like everybody else?

00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:23.215
<v Nancy Forman>Well then, figure out a way, just like I always say, it's like a bookshelf and just shorter for over a year, okay.

00:27:23.869 --> 00:27:33.403
<v Nancy Forman>So take a chance on a couple of color stories or textile stories that you communicate around it and make sure you have a manufacturing partner that works with you.

00:27:33.403 --> 00:27:36.352
<v Nancy Forman>That will make two, three, six.

00:27:36.352 --> 00:27:48.436
<v Nancy Forman>And I will say, having lived this, where I wanted to go to market with an assortment in a very strong color palette and had not been able to do it through New York due to pricing China through to MLQ.

00:27:48.436 --> 00:27:55.221
<v Nancy Forman>I said to myself I've got a fixed, yeah, so I opened a little factory, so we now have the ability to do this.

00:27:55.221 --> 00:28:00.153
<v Nancy Forman>So I've resolved that you have your own factory, now A factory partner in Europe.

00:28:00.153 --> 00:28:01.237
<v Nancy Forman>We're swam back.

00:28:01.237 --> 00:28:02.058
<v Nancy Forman>What country?

00:28:02.058 --> 00:28:02.881
<v Nancy Forman>Romania.

00:28:03.931 --> 00:28:08.826
<v Emily Blumenthal>Oh, this, wow, that's epic.

00:28:08.826 --> 00:28:17.529
<v Emily Blumenthal>Nancy, nancy, nancy, nancy, wow, I can't wait to share your information at the end because, wow, I'm not good for that.

00:28:17.789 --> 00:28:22.118
<v Nancy Forman>So I'm moving into exploration for other categories of hair accessories.

00:28:22.118 --> 00:28:26.634
<v Nancy Forman>I'll bet Clothing, but it was really out of my restoration of.

00:28:26.634 --> 00:28:47.295
<v Nancy Forman>Also, I cannot take out client Right when you can't get their bags made Well, I don't want to go through this challenge of a investment of 50 or 60K or 80K in the US with the dies, the MLQs, and tie up those dollars when we have to take those dollars and split them evenly.

00:28:47.295 --> 00:28:54.656
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, between a logo of visual identity, product Development, yeah, so we did it.

00:28:54.656 --> 00:28:57.778
<v Nancy Forman>So that's definitely the things much easier.

00:28:57.778 --> 00:29:00.738
<v Nancy Forman>We do real time zines with the factory.

00:29:00.738 --> 00:29:01.711
<v Nancy Forman>What's the MLQ?

00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:04.154
<v Emily Blumenthal>Six, three, 12.

00:29:04.154 --> 00:29:05.198
<v Emily Blumenthal>Wow.

00:29:05.198 --> 00:29:23.179
<v Emily Blumenthal>So instead of the designer saying, okay, I'm going to make this all neutral or I'm going to do black, brown and oxblood, and now they have an opportunity to do a short run collection of green, hot pink, orange, yellow, just for or at least develop once.

00:29:23.179 --> 00:29:26.038
<v Emily Blumenthal>Because the problem is, is economies of scale right?

00:29:26.038 --> 00:29:34.276
<v Emily Blumenthal>Like, if you're producing green bags, on your end it's going to cost you a lot more because you're producing that much less, but meanwhile you can't put that to the customer.

00:29:34.276 --> 00:29:34.917
<v Emily Blumenthal>So then what?

00:29:34.917 --> 00:29:51.619
<v Emily Blumenthal>So that's always the pickle, because whenever I analyze and talk to people about analyzing brands and a brand's health is counting how many pop of color bags they have within their assortment- it's a very delicate balance, right.

00:29:51.849 --> 00:30:07.670
<v Nancy Forman>So look at the success of any great brand to stand for, identifying their strong item and then, from that, pulling that out and communicating to the customer on whether it be through size right Through an impact.

00:30:07.670 --> 00:30:11.441
<v Nancy Forman>It doesn't just have to be like color, it doesn't have to be the rainbow.

00:30:11.441 --> 00:30:31.954
<v Nancy Forman>It might be that you know that your communication and choice of color story is very reflective of a trip to the country whereby the way that the truth, the smugest, that shades of oranges, you know it's also like the authenticity of where you're making your choices of development and how you communicate that.

00:30:31.954 --> 00:30:37.760
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, even still, the reality is is more neutral, always sells.

00:30:37.760 --> 00:30:41.479
<v Nancy Forman>And yet we do need that impact of storytelling.

00:30:42.290 --> 00:30:46.421
<v Nancy Forman>And I was in Saturdays doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

00:30:46.421 --> 00:30:52.892
<v Nancy Forman>I know what it means, I know what the costs are to create a brand and, yes, products, wonderful.

00:30:52.892 --> 00:30:58.162
<v Nancy Forman>But what exterior images, half bath logo website that doesn't work.

00:30:58.162 --> 00:31:00.270
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, you know, it's just.

00:31:00.270 --> 00:31:09.201
<v Nancy Forman>And also I've been pretty over the years and recently and always I'm part of every aspect of what the client does and there's excellence all over.

00:31:09.201 --> 00:31:17.720
<v Nancy Forman>I'm just saying is this can be afforded right, if your proposal for a logo, you know, or website 50 K.

00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.893
<v Nancy Forman>Well, no right, since how can you?

00:31:20.893 --> 00:31:24.241
<v Nancy Forman>But it's not in sitting for agencies that are able to do it.

00:31:24.241 --> 00:31:31.518
<v Nancy Forman>It's the same thing, as is why, love, let me nails and started my makeup brands, right, I hired the PR company that represented people.

00:31:31.518 --> 00:31:34.576
<v Nancy Forman>I thought being in a magazine was going to do it.

00:31:34.576 --> 00:31:36.320
<v Nancy Forman>It's managing, right.

00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:45.954
<v Nancy Forman>So you're also now have a built out for many clients logo, website on system, this your identity, and it's incredible, I bet.

00:31:45.954 --> 00:31:47.336
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, it sounds amazing.

00:31:47.336 --> 00:31:48.759
<v Nancy Forman>Let's go back to product.

00:31:48.759 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Nancy Forman>It's the fun part In regards to and I felt this for a while I feel that the earthiness, you know, as we know, the freshness of the consumer becoming more casual, right, she, you know, before COVID, you know how women dressed and then we were stopped and now we're getting dressed up.

00:32:07.355 --> 00:32:10.144
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, we have a real connectivity to nature and earth.

00:32:10.144 --> 00:32:23.845
<v Nancy Forman>So the idea of the colors of nature, meaning that you could choose a palette, that is, shades of matte, shades of green, like you know, like, be your step and you don't need to do one tan.

00:32:23.845 --> 00:32:26.903
<v Nancy Forman>I'm not saying that's right, but I really feel very strongly about chocolate.

00:32:26.903 --> 00:32:30.782
<v Nancy Forman>Hmm, I'm obsessed with chocolate and you're going to see it.

00:32:30.782 --> 00:32:36.767
<v Nancy Forman>I mean chocolates are to me really fresh and a beautiful alternative to blocks.

00:32:36.767 --> 00:32:50.974
<v Nancy Forman>And then, from a color palette perspective, I think I still feel that shades of green, yep, just less acid, yeah, but super excited about that, you know.

00:32:50.974 --> 00:32:55.465
<v Nancy Forman>And ultimately, again, there's beautiful colors across all spectrums.

00:32:55.465 --> 00:32:59.044
<v Nancy Forman>What makes sense for that person's brands?

00:32:59.815 --> 00:33:04.326
<v Emily Blumenthal>So, just because we only have a couple of minutes left, what are your silhouettes to watch?

00:33:04.326 --> 00:33:05.980
<v Emily Blumenthal>What do you think are on their way out?

00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:11.701
<v Emily Blumenthal>Because I don't want to take too much more of your time, because we'll close in on an hour here, or 45 minutes.

00:33:12.242 --> 00:33:13.215
<v Nancy Forman>Sure, I mean.

00:33:13.215 --> 00:33:28.141
<v Nancy Forman>Logic and reality is that we know, you know since the beginning of time across that a smart tote was faced A smart tote, whether it's targeting working woman, a mom, you know that there is some niche for a smart tote.

00:33:28.141 --> 00:33:39.344
<v Nancy Forman>At the same time, novelty and when I'm talking novelty I'm not saying that it has to be crystallized in a embroider, but really smart, smart bag shapes.

00:33:41.137 --> 00:33:42.663
<v Emily Blumenthal>That's what I'm doing right now.

00:33:44.820 --> 00:33:46.586
<v Nancy Forman>Like really coming out with something beautiful.

00:33:46.586 --> 00:33:56.547
<v Nancy Forman>I really am quite inspired by hobos yeah, not 1990s, 2003.

00:33:56.547 --> 00:34:05.209
<v Nancy Forman>Yeah, kind of casual cross body, hands free, really works with what's happening in ready to wear.

00:34:05.209 --> 00:34:17.414
<v Nancy Forman>And then I'm quite excited about travel because there's, you know, like when I look back to travel brand that we created together, client, the feedback from a very senior person.

00:34:17.414 --> 00:34:21.125
<v Nancy Forman>They want, you know, so many people are traveling, yeah.

00:34:21.125 --> 00:34:31.838
<v Nancy Forman>So if you agree with the idea of backpack, yeah, you know the utilitarian aspect of backpack, but for my market or for doesn't that mean all my clients are doing this?

00:34:31.838 --> 00:34:42.268
<v Nancy Forman>But some level of really chic, really beautiful novelty, the casual sophistication of some sort of cross body messenger phobos, yeah, and swatches.

00:34:43.036 --> 00:34:43.900
<v Emily Blumenthal>That's amazing.

00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:48.797
<v Emily Blumenthal>Well, nancy, thank you so much for taking your time Again.

00:34:48.797 --> 00:34:52.885
<v Emily Blumenthal>You are going to be our regular in terms of we're getting updates with Nancy.

00:34:52.885 --> 00:34:54.307
<v Emily Blumenthal>Where can we find you?

00:34:54.307 --> 00:34:56.101
<v Emily Blumenthal>How can people find you follow you?

00:34:56.101 --> 00:34:58.440
<v Emily Blumenthal>Why do we get back to everything, nancy?

00:34:59.635 --> 00:35:02.503
<v Nancy Forman>My company is the Excelsiori Sink Tank.

00:35:02.503 --> 00:35:10.175
<v Nancy Forman>We're more now than accessories, since we're in our 18th year, but the company Excelsiori Sink Tank.

00:35:10.175 --> 00:35:18.088
<v Nancy Forman>My email is Nancy at the accessory think tank and my Instagram is at the accessory think tank.

00:35:18.768 --> 00:35:20.800
<v Emily Blumenthal>Amazing, nancy, thank you.

00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:21.818
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thank you so much.

00:35:21.818 --> 00:35:28.697
<v Emily Blumenthal>Well, stay tuned and thanks for joining us on the handbag designer one to one podcast and more to come.

00:35:28.697 --> 00:35:30.824
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thanks, guys, have a good one, bye.

00:35:30.824 --> 00:35:31.527
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thanks for listening.

00:35:31.527 --> 00:35:41.307
<v Emily Blumenthal>Don't forget to rate and review and follow us on every single platform at handbag designer.

00:35:41.307 --> 00:35:42.168
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thanks a bunch.

00:35:42.168 --> 00:35:50.231
<v Emily Blumenthal>We'll see you next time.