Episode 31 - Was Jesus REALLY a Feminist? Responding to Your Comments & Challenges

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<v Speaker>Welcome to Spirit Outspoken, the podcast for Christians who are ready to explore the deeper side of faith.

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<v Speaker>We believe God's truth is bigger than what we've been taught, and that real spirituality isn't something to fear, it's something to discover.

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<v Speaker>Each week we open the space to explore miracles.

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<v Speaker>Energy, healing consciousness and divine science all through the lens of a God who loves us, and a faith that's still unfolding.

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<v Speaker>Whether you're deconstructing, rebuilding, or just feeling spiritually stuck, this is your place to reconnect with wonder, deepen your walk and let the spirit speak.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Hey guys, and welcome to this week's episode of Spirit Outspoken.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I know that Rach, and I promise you an episode on Mary Magdalene, which we will absolutely get to the following week, but we got some comments.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Lots of comments, lots of comments.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>On our last couple episodes and our reels and videos of the podcast clips on TikTok and on YouTube.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Not so much Instagram, but the other two platforms.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, really.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Picked up a whole dust storm of, I would say like, uh, I don't know.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Gnarly, gnarly stuff.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it was funny, I think like initially, well, like how did you feel about that Okay, so what really seemed to get people, as you said when we were chatting about this, they're boxers in a bunch.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>They got their boxers in a bunch because it was primarily men, right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Is it, was our episode on feminism?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Was Jesus a feminist and.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I understand that that word is, is pretty loaded.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that, for some people it can really have a lot of different meanings, right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And different connotation depending on what your view is of that.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Totally.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so I think that that's kind of controversial, which we knew it could be.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, but to be honest, I was a little, um, struck at how I responded.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I guess, um.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I knew, I knew that this day would come we're talking about the Bible, we're talking about sometimes controversial things.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I knew the comments would eventually start.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I'm gonna have to have a thicker skin.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I think sometimes with this there were comments about like, how do you call yourself a Christian?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, do you know things that we knew would would happen?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Oh yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Associating us as witches.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, like a lot of insinuations about how we feel about abortion when none of that was even mentioned in the reels.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It just was like, really, I hate to say it, like it was shocking, but not surprising.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You know what I mean?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Perfectly.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like when we're talking about these different things about how women have been silenced and really looking at how Jesus.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Empowered women.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I was just amazed at how we're still living in a world where they want to weaponize the Bible to make sure we know exactly where we stand.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I think that that, for me, I had this moment of like, we're hitting the right nerve.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Uh, I get it, I echo your sentiment of Hey, it never feels good when people are throwing hate, but where I was really.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Amped was people were coming to our defense.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>People were jumping all over these comments, like women, other men of being like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Relax, where are you getting your information from?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or just kind of pointing out that it was really extreme.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But I think like the most surprising results of this experience, and we'll have more, was you and I had a really good conversation of like, Hey.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We don't wanna take the stance of know it all right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And if we respond back and instigate an argument around no, you're wrong, no you're wrong.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, that's literally just perpetuating the same problem.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Exactly.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And our whole point in creating this podcast is it's a place for people to come with their questions.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And these are legitimate questions that people have been raised to believe and that's fair.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's valid.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And they're just posing what they have been taught.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so we both had a discussion of our knee jerk reaction, your human reaction is to get defensive.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And to want to state claim, but.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>If we're going to walk the walk and do the thing that we talked about when we created this, is to be an open platform where we can discuss diverse perspectives.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We also have to be open to hearing diverse perspectives.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we have said time and time again.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We are not theologians.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We are not pastors.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We are two women exploring our own faith.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we just happen to be doing it publicly and on the internet.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Which can feel very vulnerable.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we have said there are times we are going to get this wrong.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>While we're doing everything we possibly can to research and check our sources and.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Be accurate.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We're learning too.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we pride ourselves on the fact that we are willing to acknowledge and admit when we have been wrong.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so when some of these comments started rolling in, we were like, Hey, these are, these are valid points.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I mean, they're quoting scripture, so I think it's worth investigating just to make sure absolute that we didn't mess anything up and that we don't need to course correct.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like for the record, you guys like we.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Are going to get stuff wrong.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, we're gonna get it wrong.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And the only thing that we can do is, like you said, rage.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Do our own research.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like okay, great.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like thank you for pointing that out.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Let's investigate.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And to your point, what was so cool about this is we got these different comments that came through and Rach immediately, like your initial response was, I wanna understand this.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And what's so cool was that you had so many epiphanies and so many things that came forward as a result of these unsettling comments in a lot of situations and that not all of'em were, fueled with anger.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>A lot of'em were kind of middle of the road, like, yeah, hey that's one thing, but you have it wrong because of this.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's like, let's seek to have the conversation to understand not to win.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I, I love that.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like we are so.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Anchored on that together.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, because it has really opened up some other cool things.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So impromptu episode guys, you're gonna get some other goodies as a result of these comments.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, and truth be told, I had a pit in my stomach for about 24 hours.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>'cause I was like.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Eh, A little bit of imposter syndrome.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>A little bit of like, oh, am I doing the right thing?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But I think part of why I was having this nagging feeling and it wouldn't let me go Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Is because I felt like my inner wisdom, God, holy Spirit, whatever, was like, no, you need to look into this because what's so cool you guys is, when I looked into it, it actually only reaffirmed what we were talking about.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You were getting, and so we're gonna get into that and it's, it's.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Super, super cool.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I was calling Jasa on Sunday, totally freaking out.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, you are not gonna believe this.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is so awesome.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It was awesome.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So we're gonna, we're gonna break it all down for you guys, but it's pretty cool.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, so I think just to start, one of the comments we got was revolving around the word feminist.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And people saying, that's abortion, that's this, that's that.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So we just wanna clarify.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So when we use the word feminist.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Is Jesus a feminist?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We were simply using the Oxford Dictionary definition, which basically just means equality amongst the genders that male, female are equal.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That's all we meant.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like for the record, like I think I.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Females don't have a problem with that term.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, it's mostly men and I think we were using it in the way that we felt we believed in, which is that Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like equality, you took this.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You took the step to look it up and be like, wait.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That is the actual definition.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So, um, yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Good clarification.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>All we meant was that God forbid women should have equality and that Jesus was super progressive for his time and culture because that was not what we saw, when he existed.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He was really breaking the norms.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So yeah was the term, was Jesus the first feminist, provocative.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, but like we stand behind that, right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So anyway, yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So just to clear that up.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So now the first one that we got was around Ephesians 2233.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And to be honest, I don't know how I forgot about this verse when we were doing this episode, but it's the famous one about wives submitting to your husband.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So I'm just gonna read.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>The, should I read it?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's a little lengthy.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, I think you should read it.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So I'm, I'll read it for you.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So this is Ephesians 22 through 33.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Wives submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>His body of which he is the Savior now as the church submits to Christ.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Husbands, love your wives.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church without stain or wrinkle, or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He who loves his wife, loves himself.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body just as Christ does the church for we are members of his body.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will be become one flesh.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ and the church.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay, so when we read that at Face Value, right, there's a lot there.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I can see.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Where if someone's just reading that yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And doesn't understand the context and the language and, and everything where you would say, well, it says it right here, clear as day.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Did Jesus say that?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>No.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This isn't a letter that Paul wrote.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So like, that's just, just a slight point of clarification too.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Our episode was really pinpointing on what Jesus himself had done, said, and did.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>For you to say how did I miss that?

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You, I both know there's plenty in the Bible that range from flat out disparaging against women to just insinuating inequality.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right, right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So like that's fair.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I don't think we made any mistake there, but, to your point, this is how somebody responded to us by referencing the scripture, right.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And telling us that we were misinformed because.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Scripture, this is, it says yes.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So I, I was like, okay, I really wanna unpack this and understand that.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So first of all, in my research, I found out that a lot of people like to start at Ephesians 22, but they really should be starting at Ephesians 21, because Ephesians 21 states submit yourselves to one another.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Because of your reverence to Christ.

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<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So in the verse directly before this, it's actually calling for husbands and wives to have mutual submission to each other.

00:12:29.112 --> 00:12:29.262
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm.

00:12:29.802 --> 00:12:30.432
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

00:12:30.492 --> 00:12:35.292
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And then this is where it gets really cool when we start to look at the language that this was originally written in.

00:12:35.322 --> 00:12:35.682
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:12:35.682 --> 00:12:45.581
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So Paul wrote this and the word that he used for head,'cause the line that we're referring to now is for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.

00:12:45.972 --> 00:12:49.542
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So when we hear head in our language, we typically think of.

00:12:49.907 --> 00:12:51.047
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>The boss or the boss.

00:12:51.047 --> 00:12:51.647
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Authority.

00:12:51.647 --> 00:12:52.187
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Authority.

00:12:52.247 --> 00:12:52.698
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right, right.

00:12:52.947 --> 00:13:00.597
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But there was a landmark study done in 1981 in Christianity Today, where these researchers had gone in and looked at the original text.

00:13:00.627 --> 00:13:00.717
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:13:00.956 --> 00:13:02.937
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And found that Paul had used the word kale.

00:13:03.777 --> 00:13:07.437
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And in Greek kale means head, physical head.

00:13:07.527 --> 00:13:07.706
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

00:13:07.737 --> 00:13:08.576
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or source.

00:13:08.887 --> 00:13:09.157
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

00:13:09.157 --> 00:13:13.867
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And they said, had he intended this to mean Leadership authority ruler.

00:13:13.897 --> 00:13:13.987
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:13:14.227 --> 00:13:18.487
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He would've used one of four other Greek words that were common at that time, but he didn't.

00:13:18.517 --> 00:13:24.517
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He used one that was head, which is why we see head of the Wife as Christ is the head of the church.

00:13:24.817 --> 00:13:36.367
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So they make the argument that this actually goes against what a lot of people have said because they actually see this as he was saying, the husband is the source of the wife and this is where it gets super cool.

00:13:36.417 --> 00:13:43.247
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Because he was referring back to Genesis, where Eve, if you recall Yes.

00:13:43.247 --> 00:13:44.387
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Came from Adam.

00:13:44.507 --> 00:13:44.956
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:13:45.227 --> 00:13:47.387
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That she was made and created from his rib.

00:13:47.537 --> 00:13:48.257
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>From his rib.

00:13:48.317 --> 00:13:48.647
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:13:48.857 --> 00:13:49.637
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so.

00:13:50.214 --> 00:14:07.014
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>The reason this is so significant is because at the time there was a peg in theory that women were made by a lesser God, and that idea, that theory was being used prevalently in culture at the time to keep women lower than men and reinforced that hierarchy.

00:14:07.044 --> 00:14:07.403
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:14:07.464 --> 00:14:09.294
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so he actually is saying.

00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:14.589
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>No women are made of the same thing, the same quality.

00:14:14.589 --> 00:14:17.139
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>They come from the same thing as men.

00:14:17.408 --> 00:14:18.908
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Therefore they are equal.

00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:20.624
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Which makes so much more sense.

00:14:20.634 --> 00:14:21.585
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Makes more sense.

00:14:21.585 --> 00:14:24.759
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>'cause in the previous verse he's talking about being mutually submissive.

00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:25.059
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:14:25.089 --> 00:14:29.319
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Now he's reinforcing, they are mutual, they are equals.

00:14:29.619 --> 00:14:32.229
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is how it should look and.

00:14:32.709 --> 00:14:33.609
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Oh my gosh.

00:14:33.609 --> 00:14:36.489
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Here's this verse that people have been using for hundreds of years Yes.

00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:37.809
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>To keep us lower.

00:14:37.869 --> 00:14:38.199
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:14:38.199 --> 00:14:41.619
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>When Paul's whole intention was to elevate us.

00:14:42.339 --> 00:14:42.908
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I know.

00:14:42.959 --> 00:14:45.059
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>R so first of all, like, this is unbelievable, right?

00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:45.119
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:14:45.119 --> 00:14:50.653
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Because like, it's, it's like doing, digging, doing some research how much.

00:14:51.644 --> 00:14:59.694
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Our, interpretation of the Bible or Christ word is through a teaching of somebody that hasn't been super educated on the origins of it.

00:14:59.814 --> 00:14:59.934
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:15:00.204 --> 00:15:03.624
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or the audience in which it was being spoken to.

00:15:03.624 --> 00:15:04.044
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:15:04.074 --> 00:15:09.314
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>All of these things matter so much, you gotta think about the lens in which Paul has, right?

00:15:09.319 --> 00:15:09.408
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:15:09.494 --> 00:15:20.533
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And he's, he's bringing his own message, and then the people that are listening and him specifically using language or specifically tailoring the message to make sure it hits home for them, right?

00:15:20.533 --> 00:15:20.535
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:15:20.774 --> 00:15:26.274
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And then for things to get translated, it's like one word gets translated.

00:15:27.129 --> 00:15:30.849
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>A certain way and the whole interpretation changes.

00:15:30.849 --> 00:15:36.158
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I think that's the thing that we have to understand that none of this can be taken at face value.

00:15:36.309 --> 00:15:36.579
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>No.

00:15:36.629 --> 00:15:42.509
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>The huge awakening for me too was that the Bible wasn't even written until fourth century, right?

00:15:42.509 --> 00:15:42.599
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:15:42.839 --> 00:15:54.289
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So 400 years after Christ came, lived, died, resurrected, and it was cobbled together from what books were available of the time, right?

00:15:54.289 --> 00:15:54.379
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:15:54.829 --> 00:15:56.209
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So think about that.

00:15:56.209 --> 00:16:03.649
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You have hundreds of years for a message to evolve or change or for people to translate.

00:16:04.384 --> 00:16:04.954
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Differently.

00:16:04.954 --> 00:16:05.044
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:16:05.314 --> 00:16:07.894
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Into a certain language, right?

00:16:07.894 --> 00:16:09.424
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like all of this matters.

00:16:09.454 --> 00:16:09.724
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:16:09.783 --> 00:16:15.914
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And for something to be, again, weaponized or a way to point to Hey, no, you are wrong.

00:16:16.334 --> 00:16:20.414
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's very empowering to do your own research and discover wait.

00:16:21.479 --> 00:16:24.329
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Actually this is affirming Yes.

00:16:24.329 --> 00:16:26.189
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>What we've already known from Yeah.

00:16:26.219 --> 00:16:28.049
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>What Jesus taught, right?

00:16:28.079 --> 00:16:28.379
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:28.829
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:33.319
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And another point you could make is that even if you did believe that.

00:16:33.994 --> 00:16:38.524
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is saying no men should be the leaders, men should be the authority.

00:16:38.974 --> 00:16:41.104
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It instructs them to do so as Christ did.

00:16:41.254 --> 00:16:41.374
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:16:41.374 --> 00:16:45.033
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And if we look at the way Christ led, it's completely different.

00:16:45.094 --> 00:16:46.624
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It is not dictatorship.

00:16:46.624 --> 00:16:49.144
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It is not coming in and saying, I'm running the show.

00:16:49.194 --> 00:16:57.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Jesus himself actually stated in Matthew 2028, the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.

00:16:58.014 --> 00:17:02.334
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>His leadership style was, as you had said previously, servant leadership.

00:17:02.364 --> 00:17:02.664
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:17:02.694 --> 00:17:03.054
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:17:03.294 --> 00:17:08.423
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So when we look at, okay, men, this is how, if you do believe that it is a leadership role.

00:17:08.634 --> 00:17:10.044
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is how you're supposed to lead.

00:17:10.044 --> 00:17:14.304
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's not with like this iron fist and I make all the decisions and this is how it is.

00:17:14.544 --> 00:17:14.933
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Christ.

00:17:14.933 --> 00:17:15.443
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Exactly.

00:17:15.689 --> 00:17:18.989
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Was patient and loving and served to the point of death.

00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:23.729
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He came in like we had talked about on Palm Sunday on a donkey.

00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:24.959
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He humbled himself.

00:17:24.989 --> 00:17:28.108
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Rulers at that time, they said would've wrote in on some fancy steed.

00:17:28.108 --> 00:17:28.709
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He did not.

00:17:28.709 --> 00:17:31.288
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes, it was very different type of leadership.

00:17:31.288 --> 00:17:34.769
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It was loving, it was caring, it was respectful, and.

00:17:35.334 --> 00:17:41.963
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, I mean, it was leadership through love and guys, like, we're not saying that men can't lead their families.

00:17:41.993 --> 00:17:42.594
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Absolutely not.

00:17:42.773 --> 00:17:43.136
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Do you know what I mean?

00:17:43.142 --> 00:17:45.443
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like I, I wanna make sure that that's super clear.

00:17:45.503 --> 00:17:45.624
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:17:45.624 --> 00:17:56.653
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I think and even Rachel and I have talked about our mutual marriages and we both ha are equal partners in our marriage for sure.

00:17:56.864 --> 00:17:57.163
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:17:57.403 --> 00:18:02.594
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And even within the dynamic of the two couples, it's like we each lead in a different way.

00:18:02.594 --> 00:18:07.153
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like you and Charlie, we are joking, like Ryan and I were like passenger princesses on spring break.

00:18:07.243 --> 00:18:08.743
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We were like, we don't know what the fuck we're going.

00:18:09.273 --> 00:18:15.124
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And Rachel and Charlie were like, this is where the boat leaves and we have coolers packed and da, da da da.

00:18:15.124 --> 00:18:17.824
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And Ryan and I are like, okay, well we've got the wine.

00:18:18.094 --> 00:18:26.854
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, it, it's true, but there's, there's an element of like, and it's not even gender specific, but I think if everybody looked at their marriage, if it's it's of a good, healthy marriage.

00:18:27.344 --> 00:18:29.114
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Each of us leads in a different way.

00:18:29.114 --> 00:18:31.903
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So we're not insinuating that the man can't lead.

00:18:32.173 --> 00:18:37.423
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But I think the insinuation that men are the sole leader, right?

00:18:37.453 --> 00:18:39.554
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>They are the sole boss.

00:18:39.554 --> 00:18:40.064
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>They are.

00:18:40.124 --> 00:18:40.634
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You know what I mean?

00:18:40.754 --> 00:18:40.814
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:18:40.818 --> 00:18:42.104
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That's very different.

00:18:42.163 --> 00:18:42.403
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:18:42.433 --> 00:18:43.304
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Very different.

00:18:43.304 --> 00:18:51.433
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And even in the, the thing that you're pointing out around Jesus, like Jesus was the leader of Christianity, of course, right?

00:18:51.614 --> 00:18:55.274
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But it wasn't in a way that was like black or white.

00:18:55.453 --> 00:18:57.374
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right this way or the highway, right?

00:18:57.374 --> 00:19:01.124
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like there was nuance, there was understanding, there was love, there was forgiveness.

00:19:01.124 --> 00:19:01.453
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>There was.

00:19:02.814 --> 00:19:03.834
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Context.

00:19:03.953 --> 00:19:04.163
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:19:04.163 --> 00:19:04.374
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:19:04.764 --> 00:19:04.943
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:19:04.943 --> 00:19:12.834
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I think that that's what really has been diluted over or flat out changed Yeah.

00:19:12.834 --> 00:19:15.894
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Over the centuries since, um, he was on earth.

00:19:15.984 --> 00:19:16.374
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:19:16.524 --> 00:19:18.505
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I, so Father Mike Schmitz is.

00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:23.459
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This awesome Catholic priest who yeah, um, has a YouTube channel.

00:19:23.459 --> 00:19:29.379
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He had like over a million followers, but he just has such a cool, grounded, knowledgeable way of speaking.

00:19:29.379 --> 00:19:31.359
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so I looked at what he said on this.

00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:41.199
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And one thing that I thought that was so cool is he's like, when we look at the word submission itself, that it actually means to be under the mission of another so sub mission.

00:19:41.348 --> 00:19:45.729
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And he said, if you look at a healthy marriage, like the whole point is.

00:19:46.399 --> 00:19:55.419
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Any one of us who's in a good marriage could, could say, yes, I love and honor, and trust and respect this person so much that I will follow you.

00:19:55.449 --> 00:19:56.619
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>'cause I believe in you.

00:19:56.649 --> 00:19:57.669
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes, and I trust you.

00:19:57.673 --> 00:19:57.994
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:19:58.269 --> 00:19:59.078
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And he's like.

00:19:59.453 --> 00:20:06.144
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Marriage should really be a mutual race to the bottom that we should constantly be looking to support.

00:20:06.203 --> 00:20:08.394
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Uplift back up each other.

00:20:08.399 --> 00:20:08.409
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:20:08.484 --> 00:20:08.723
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:20:08.723 --> 00:20:12.894
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that, that's the beautiful act of submission that we're talking about.

00:20:12.894 --> 00:20:14.963
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's not this like authoritative ruler.

00:20:15.568 --> 00:20:15.989
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Absolutely.

00:20:16.044 --> 00:20:19.824
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's, I love and honor and trust you so much that I will, I will back you up.

00:20:19.824 --> 00:20:22.554
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like Ryan and I joke all the time, we're like, ride or die.

00:20:22.584 --> 00:20:22.854
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:20:23.304 --> 00:20:24.384
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, I got you.

00:20:24.384 --> 00:20:25.614
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like we're in this together.

00:20:25.614 --> 00:20:26.094
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Absolutely.

00:20:26.153 --> 00:20:28.673
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that's what he's talking about, yeah.

00:20:28.703 --> 00:20:33.203
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That you back each other up and you support each other, which I thought was such a beautiful way of hearing it.

00:20:33.203 --> 00:20:34.223
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That was a beautiful interpretation.

00:20:34.223 --> 00:20:34.433
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:20:34.433 --> 00:20:37.344
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like that's the thing is I don't know.

00:20:37.403 --> 00:20:48.534
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I just think that, gosh, what's so beautiful about all of these different teachings is that if you keep an open mind mm-hmm.

00:20:48.774 --> 00:20:50.183
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Really an open heart, right?

00:20:50.213 --> 00:20:55.453
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That you can leave room for any interpretation, right?

00:20:55.453 --> 00:20:55.544
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:20:55.784 --> 00:21:02.144
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like we've seen that unfortunately on the flip side, where it's like interpretation has been used.

00:21:02.984 --> 00:21:05.923
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Not in the most loving way.

00:21:05.984 --> 00:21:06.554
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right, right.

00:21:06.644 --> 00:21:06.734
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:21:07.213 --> 00:21:13.453
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But even now, like a Catholic priest can look at the word and be like, well, let's actually look at this differently.

00:21:13.453 --> 00:21:19.804
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or let's look at this in a way that if we're looking at how Christ really led, what perhaps Paul could have been saying.

00:21:19.894 --> 00:21:20.163
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:21:20.163 --> 00:21:28.054
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I love that Even though he's a Catholic priest and Catholicism is very traditionalist in terms of the, interpretation of the Bible.

00:21:28.683 --> 00:21:35.794
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>There's still people out there that are like, well I'm actually gonna do my own research and I'm gonna use my own intuition.

00:21:35.794 --> 00:21:35.973
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:21:36.274 --> 00:21:38.304
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>To look at this a different way.

00:21:38.394 --> 00:21:38.693
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:21:38.723 --> 00:21:39.744
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I think that's cool.

00:21:39.749 --> 00:21:40.614
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, I think that's cool.

00:21:40.673 --> 00:21:41.213
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I do too.

00:21:41.244 --> 00:21:41.994
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Preach father.

00:21:42.054 --> 00:21:42.683
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:21:42.834 --> 00:21:43.134
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Get it.

00:21:43.134 --> 00:21:43.614
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mike Schmidt.

00:21:45.834 --> 00:21:47.484
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So, yeah, I just thought that was so cool.

00:21:47.514 --> 00:21:55.809
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>'cause I have heard that first thrown about in various situations and I thought how, like badass is it that like.

00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:59.950
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's again, I just feel like God surprises us all the time.

00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:03.819
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I know this is like the gift that keeps on giving it is.

00:22:03.870 --> 00:22:05.920
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Rachel, when she called me, she was literally giddy.

00:22:06.069 --> 00:22:10.539
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's like, don't you feel like we're just uncovering the mysteries of the universe?

00:22:10.539 --> 00:22:10.630
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:12.380
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You're like, it's like we're in the Da Vinci Code.

00:22:13.605 --> 00:22:14.600
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's It's true.

00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:15.950
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It feels like that.

00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:16.370
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It does.

00:22:16.525 --> 00:22:19.735
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, so yeah, I mean, listen, throw a little shade.

00:22:19.735 --> 00:22:20.904
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's feared, outspoken.

00:22:20.944 --> 00:22:22.174
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Wait to see what we uncover.

00:22:22.174 --> 00:22:23.375
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I know, I know.

00:22:23.465 --> 00:22:24.335
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's all good.

00:22:24.694 --> 00:22:39.845
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So do you wanna talk about the next one that we got as a, a comment so, um, yeah, so somebody actually put in the comments, which I'm glad they did because I ran across this scripture kind of in my own little research and I made a mental note, like I need to revisit that.

00:22:39.894 --> 00:22:44.545
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I saw somebody was like, well Jesus called a woman a dog.

00:22:44.605 --> 00:22:48.505
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I was like, man, that, that doesn't seem very, that exist.

00:22:48.505 --> 00:22:48.894
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Jesus.

00:22:48.894 --> 00:22:53.225
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, but I kind of made a mental note, I need to revisit that.

00:22:53.225 --> 00:23:01.144
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that was actually a comment that was in response to the, was Jesus the first feminist of saying well Jesus called women dogs.

00:23:01.144 --> 00:23:01.414
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

00:23:01.414 --> 00:23:07.670
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And Rach, little studious Rach, teacher h just jumped on that one quickly.

00:23:07.670 --> 00:23:11.480
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So tell us what you actually found out about the context of that scripture.

00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:12.710
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah, so this was interesting.

00:23:12.710 --> 00:23:21.590
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So I, I honestly had never heard this one before, so I was very curious and it comes from Matthew 1521 through 28 and it says.

00:23:21.894 --> 00:23:25.285
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of, is it Tyre?

00:23:25.285 --> 00:23:26.095
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>TYRE?

00:23:26.125 --> 00:23:26.545
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I don't know.

00:23:26.634 --> 00:23:30.025
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Tyre, and that's what we're gonna say side on a canon night.

00:23:30.025 --> 00:23:32.365
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Woman from that vicinity came to him crying out.

00:23:32.365 --> 00:23:34.075
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Lord, son of David, have mercy on me.

00:23:34.075 --> 00:23:36.865
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>My daughter is demon possessed and suffering terribly.

00:23:37.225 --> 00:23:38.725
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Jesus did not answer a word.

00:23:38.725 --> 00:23:43.825
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So his disciples came to him and urged him, send her away for she keeps crying out after us.

00:23:43.855 --> 00:23:44.575
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He answered.

00:23:44.575 --> 00:23:46.975
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

00:23:47.215 --> 00:23:48.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>The woman came and knelt before him.

00:23:48.684 --> 00:23:49.495
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Lord, help me.

00:23:49.495 --> 00:23:50.005
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>She said.

00:23:50.184 --> 00:23:54.355
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He replied, it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs.

00:23:54.684 --> 00:23:55.735
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes it is Lord.

00:23:55.735 --> 00:23:59.394
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>She said, even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table.

00:23:59.664 --> 00:24:01.705
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Then Jesus said to her Woman, you have great faith.

00:24:01.705 --> 00:24:05.934
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Your request is granted, and her daughter was healed at that moment, so.

00:24:06.615 --> 00:24:11.565
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>When I read it first, I'm like, well, he didn't technically call her a dog.

00:24:11.569 --> 00:24:11.870
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

00:24:11.875 --> 00:24:11.985
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:24:11.985 --> 00:24:13.755
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That I could say flat out didn't happen.

00:24:14.025 --> 00:24:14.085
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:19.305
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But, but I could see how that got conflated, but I could see how it got misinterpreted or, yeah.

00:24:19.394 --> 00:24:20.595
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Kind of made that assumption.

00:24:20.955 --> 00:24:22.305
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So here's what I found out.

00:24:22.305 --> 00:24:29.620
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So Jews in Jesus' day sometimes referred to Gentiles as dogs, and in Greek, this word was Kuan, meaning wild Kerr or wild Dog.

00:24:29.625 --> 00:24:29.715
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Dog.

00:24:29.715 --> 00:24:31.335
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Is it wild animal or wild dog?

00:24:31.340 --> 00:24:31.350
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.140
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Grungy mutts.

00:24:33.170 --> 00:24:33.500
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:40.670
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And non-Jew were considered so unspiritual that even being in their presence could make a person ceremoniously, unclean.

00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:42.140
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So it was kind of a big deal, right?

00:24:42.230 --> 00:24:42.650
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Oh yeah.

00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:43.279
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And so.

00:24:44.375 --> 00:24:51.065
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>As they were pointing out like a lot of Jesus's things in his ministry, it was all about turning expectations and prejudices kind of on their heads.

00:24:51.065 --> 00:24:58.865
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So according to this narrative, Jesus left Israel and went into this area, which was Gentile territory.

00:24:58.924 --> 00:25:05.345
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And when this woman approached him who was a gentile and was repeatedly asking for healing, the disciples were annoyed as we heard.

00:25:05.644 --> 00:25:08.884
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And then Jesus was trying to explain, as we all know, Jesus used.

00:25:09.215 --> 00:25:11.045
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Parables and metaphors constantly.

00:25:11.045 --> 00:25:11.105
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:25:11.164 --> 00:25:12.785
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So this is another example of that.

00:25:12.785 --> 00:25:13.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's a metaphor.

00:25:14.075 --> 00:25:22.875
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And he was trying to convey that in his current ministry, that he was there to serve the people of Israel, he was trying to say, this has to be my focus.

00:25:22.875 --> 00:25:24.585
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like this is who I'm here to save.

00:25:24.585 --> 00:25:26.475
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is here, who I'm here to focus on.

00:25:26.505 --> 00:25:26.715
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:25:26.745 --> 00:25:29.144
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I can't take my attention away from this.

00:25:29.174 --> 00:25:29.444
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:25:29.505 --> 00:25:31.245
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And put it over here to this group.

00:25:31.275 --> 00:25:31.485
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:25:31.485 --> 00:25:32.444
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He's laser focused.

00:25:32.505 --> 00:25:32.805
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:25:32.894 --> 00:25:37.005
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And the reason that we know that he wasn't referring to her in the negative connotation.

00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:43.240
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>is because He actually used the Greek word kion, which means small dog or pet dog.

00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:48.775
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He was using this as a metaphor to talk about yeah, I don't take food from my children and give it to the pet.

00:25:49.075 --> 00:25:49.434
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:25:49.434 --> 00:25:51.235
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>These are the ones I'm here to care for.

00:25:51.235 --> 00:25:52.465
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I have to focus on them.

00:25:52.525 --> 00:25:53.904
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That's what he was trying to say.

00:25:53.934 --> 00:25:54.235
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:25:54.235 --> 00:26:00.235
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>He wasn't calling her a derogatory name or implying that she as a woman was lesser than he was using a metaphor.

00:26:00.295 --> 00:26:00.355
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:26:00.355 --> 00:26:02.005
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that was, that was what this was about.

00:26:02.005 --> 00:26:02.845
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That makes sense.

00:26:02.875 --> 00:26:03.085
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:26:03.235 --> 00:26:03.924
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Totally makes sense.

00:26:03.924 --> 00:26:09.235
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like, again, it was one where we, we gotta read you guys, we gotta do research.

00:26:09.265 --> 00:26:13.525
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I think that's what's so cool is that this is, this is new for us, right?

00:26:13.765 --> 00:26:13.975
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:26:13.975 --> 00:26:17.305
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like us really saying we are done taking stuff at face value.

00:26:17.605 --> 00:26:19.414
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>If something instinctually.

00:26:19.615 --> 00:26:21.955
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or intuitively feels off.

00:26:21.955 --> 00:26:22.045
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:26:22.345 --> 00:26:26.785
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That's a really big invitation to explore, right?

00:26:26.785 --> 00:26:26.965
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:26:26.965 --> 00:26:28.585
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So this is another really good one.

00:26:28.585 --> 00:26:33.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>when I stumbled upon somebody saying that, I was like, man, that's, that's really disappointing.

00:26:33.809 --> 00:26:34.100
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:26:34.120 --> 00:26:35.065
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>If that's true.

00:26:35.065 --> 00:26:35.515
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right?

00:26:35.565 --> 00:26:41.015
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And you and I have said this all the time, we reserve the right to change our opinion or yes.

00:26:41.015 --> 00:26:45.394
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Our feelings about things whenever we see fit, right?

00:26:45.424 --> 00:26:46.475
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, anyway.

00:26:46.475 --> 00:26:52.115
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So, um the last one that we wanted to dig into and this one, like obviously.

00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:55.279
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I felt like it was directed at me'cause it was on my reel.

00:26:55.970 --> 00:27:06.529
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But I was saying how the church historically has really provided a structure or a masculine viewpoint of spirituality, right?

00:27:06.529 --> 00:27:06.620
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:27:06.890 --> 00:27:12.110
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And that there's other feminine aspects that we can tap into, such as astrology.

00:27:12.434 --> 00:27:13.934
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Such as nature.

00:27:13.965 --> 00:27:14.265
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:27:14.265 --> 00:27:15.914
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So those were the two that I referenced.

00:27:15.914 --> 00:27:21.075
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I really I've talked about this before about how astrology has resonated so deeply with me.

00:27:21.164 --> 00:27:21.255
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:27:21.555 --> 00:27:27.674
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's I am well aware that there is a scripture in the Bible that says astrology is a no-no.

00:27:27.914 --> 00:27:29.414
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But I am also aware.

00:27:29.664 --> 00:27:33.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That, that was more about like divinity or, or like fortune telling?

00:27:33.684 --> 00:27:33.775
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:27:33.775 --> 00:27:40.644
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Sort of looking to the stars or the planets as your source of guidance and truth and comfort.

00:27:40.644 --> 00:27:40.975
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:27:40.975 --> 00:27:42.384
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like replacing God.

00:27:42.565 --> 00:27:42.865
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:27:42.924 --> 00:27:45.115
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I don't personally have that.

00:27:45.115 --> 00:27:45.174
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I.

00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:45.860
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Take.

00:27:45.860 --> 00:27:47.990
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So I really didn't feel like that was relevant to me.

00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:48.644
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right, right.

00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:49.009
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:56.180
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I more so looked at the fact that astrology was used many times even to guide the three wise men to Jesus himself.

00:27:56.184 --> 00:27:56.450
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right, right.

00:27:56.450 --> 00:28:04.005
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>They saw specific things in the sky and that told them that a Messiah was born and a savior was born and a king was born, and that's how they found him.

00:28:04.785 --> 00:28:13.815
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That, that's neither here nor there, but we made a comment around Salem witch trials, not because we are identifying as witches.

00:28:14.805 --> 00:28:15.045
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

00:28:15.045 --> 00:28:16.215
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Purely historical.

00:28:16.245 --> 00:28:21.134
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Just purely historical because it was a time and place that's famous.

00:28:21.495 --> 00:28:22.575
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Everybody knows it.

00:28:22.575 --> 00:28:22.664
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:28:22.664 --> 00:28:24.914
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Because it's like literally the term witch hunt.

00:28:25.085 --> 00:28:29.705
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Came from oh if somebody is trying to catch somebody doing something, it's like, oh, that feels like a witch hunt.

00:28:30.125 --> 00:28:31.595
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's from those times, right?

00:28:31.595 --> 00:28:31.684
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:28:31.924 --> 00:28:34.625
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like going after somebody pursuing somebody.

00:28:35.525 --> 00:28:43.565
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Killing somebody because they either didn't conform to the times, had a differing opinion, or you found research.

00:28:43.615 --> 00:28:48.465
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It could could've even been somebody who was poor and going house to house looking for food.

00:28:48.644 --> 00:28:48.705
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:28:48.795 --> 00:28:52.285
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And they're like, well that's a sketch ball's probably a witch.

00:28:52.345 --> 00:28:52.555
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:28:52.615 --> 00:28:57.255
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Or a married woman that couldn't have kids or had one.

00:28:57.650 --> 00:29:00.720
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Child or too few of children, however, Yeah.

00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:02.580
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Subjectively came up with the perfect number.

00:29:02.580 --> 00:29:02.640
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:07.500
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That like the devil had taken over their womb and therefore were a witch.

00:29:07.590 --> 00:29:07.830
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:29:07.830 --> 00:29:10.289
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I mean this is really disturbing stuff.

00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:12.539
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So just to clarify.

00:29:13.330 --> 00:29:16.420
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Rachel and I don't believe we're witches.

00:29:17.049 --> 00:29:25.240
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So deeply appreciate the feedback that our exploration of things outside of the Bible could insinuate as such.

00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:29.660
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But listen it's okay, we are well informed and well aware.

00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:35.710
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>we know that these are provocative and taboo topics and we also feel like.

00:29:36.205 --> 00:29:38.485
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>This is our calling to have these conversations.

00:29:38.515 --> 00:29:38.755
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:29:38.815 --> 00:29:43.855
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So guys like bring it on and also we highly encourage you, make it productive.

00:29:44.125 --> 00:29:45.664
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You don't have to agree with us, but yeah.

00:29:45.890 --> 00:29:47.404
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You don't have to you don't have to be mean.

00:29:47.404 --> 00:29:48.455
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You don't have to be mean.

00:29:49.414 --> 00:29:50.404
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You don't have to be mean.

00:29:50.404 --> 00:29:52.865
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We welcome opposing viewpoints.

00:29:52.894 --> 00:29:53.194
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:29:53.225 --> 00:29:56.315
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And there are plenty of comments that were opposing viewpoints.

00:29:57.085 --> 00:29:57.745
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We're polite.

00:29:57.805 --> 00:29:57.955
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:29:57.955 --> 00:30:02.664
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we're kind, and just said like, Hey, you're wrong because of X, Y, and Z.

00:30:02.725 --> 00:30:12.055
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's an invitation for us to explore and we will never, ever comment or acknowledge a hate-filled comment so if you're doing it for a response.

00:30:12.055 --> 00:30:12.745
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's not gonna happen.

00:30:12.775 --> 00:30:18.085
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And secondly, like, where there is opposing dialogue, we welcome it.

00:30:18.115 --> 00:30:22.585
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes, we want it because like we are fully acknowledging we do not know it all right?

00:30:22.585 --> 00:30:26.875
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like we wanna learn it all and ask the questions, not know all the answers, right?

00:30:26.875 --> 00:30:28.705
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So thank you for being here.

00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:36.650
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Thank you for being part of this journey and also all the people that reached out to us and support the dms that we got that was really loving and really awesome.

00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:36.799
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And I know that there are plenty of people that recognized like we were putting ourselves out there, we were being vulnerable.

00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:47.509
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We were talking about things that historically have really put women Yeah.

00:30:47.509 --> 00:30:49.700
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>In a hot position.

00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:51.350
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Okay.

00:30:53.269 --> 00:30:55.309
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And we got support, so.

00:30:55.315 --> 00:30:55.424
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:59.150
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>For every gnarly comment we got 10 really beautiful things.

00:30:59.150 --> 00:30:59.210
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:00.230
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So thanks for that too.

00:31:00.350 --> 00:31:01.250
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, yeah.

00:31:01.250 --> 00:31:01.745
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I just, but anyway.

00:31:01.745 --> 00:31:01.904
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:08.330
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I just collectively in our culture right now, we have lost the ability to have discourse.

00:31:08.360 --> 00:31:08.509
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Mm-hmm.

00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Meaning polite conversation about disagreements.

00:31:12.380 --> 00:31:12.529
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:31:12.740 --> 00:31:17.980
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You look on social media and I get it, it's so much easier to spew hate from behind.

00:31:18.424 --> 00:31:19.265
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>A computer screen.

00:31:19.265 --> 00:31:19.715
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Absolutely.

00:31:19.955 --> 00:31:28.775
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, and that's part of the problem, but I just wish we could get back to the point of just having knowledgeable intellectual conversations.

00:31:28.775 --> 00:31:32.644
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I mean, that really is a lost art and that's really what we want this to be.

00:31:32.765 --> 00:31:33.095
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:31:33.095 --> 00:31:34.955
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Let's have some conversations.

00:31:35.465 --> 00:31:35.855
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I.

00:31:36.490 --> 00:31:40.360
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Check my ego or try to check my ego at the door when we walk in the studio.

00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:40.630
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:31:40.809 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it's purely about sharing information and also receiving information and learning and growing.

00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:46.990
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>That's what we want this to be.

00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:48.430
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's so well said.

00:31:48.430 --> 00:31:53.830
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We're just so thankful that we have listeners that wanna learn along with us.

00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:54.130
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:31:54.154 --> 00:31:54.505
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Right.

00:31:54.845 --> 00:31:55.065
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And.

00:31:55.545 --> 00:31:59.085
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We love the feedback, we love, different perspectives too.

00:31:59.085 --> 00:32:00.015
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like that's really cool.

00:32:00.015 --> 00:32:00.975
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Have you thought about that?

00:32:01.424 --> 00:32:01.485
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:32:01.485 --> 00:32:04.875
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And there's been so many things where we're like, oh my gosh, that's so sweet.

00:32:05.444 --> 00:32:09.914
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, Chelsea from Mono Temple, who we had on as a guest.

00:32:10.360 --> 00:32:13.660
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Immediately reached out and she was like, you guys would love this book.

00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:14.410
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Like, oh my gosh.

00:32:14.410 --> 00:32:15.430
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Which I've started reading.

00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:16.299
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It is amazing.

00:32:16.299 --> 00:32:16.390
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yeah.

00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:20.865
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And like where it's about Mary Magdalene, our new BFF, she is my new BFF.

00:32:20.870 --> 00:32:21.519
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Oh my gosh.

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:22.600
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We're like obsessed with her.

00:32:22.630 --> 00:32:24.519
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I'm like, can you just like reincarnate?

00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:27.371
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So, or maybe she has like time travel, maybe she was like.

00:32:28.495 --> 00:32:29.035
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I don't know.

00:32:29.154 --> 00:32:30.325
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I gotta think about this.

00:32:30.414 --> 00:32:34.075
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Maybe there was somebody recently who she could have been, I'll do some mental recon.

00:32:34.735 --> 00:32:41.815
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, anyway, so back, back to our regularly scheduled programming next week of Mary Magne.

00:32:42.355 --> 00:32:47.515
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>But we just had to take a quick little detour because, hey, we learned things from these comments and wanted to share.

00:32:47.782 --> 00:32:49.731
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>You guys, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:32:49.731 --> 00:32:55.072
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We hope you learned and we're equally as excited as we were about everything that we discovered this week.

00:32:55.072 --> 00:33:01.491
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>I really feel that there was a reason that we got some of those comments because honestly, the amount that I learned in this week, yes, it was immense.

00:33:01.552 --> 00:33:01.761
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Yes.

00:33:01.761 --> 00:33:02.902
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>And it was super cool.

00:33:03.231 --> 00:33:06.471
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Um, and we hope that you feel like you learned a little something too.

00:33:06.471 --> 00:33:07.461
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>So join us next week.

00:33:07.461 --> 00:33:08.271
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>It's gonna be great.

00:33:08.271 --> 00:33:10.642
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>We'll have a whole new set of new things to learn about next week.

00:33:11.032 --> 00:33:11.572
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Chat with you then.

00:33:11.572 --> 00:33:11.782
<v Spirit Outspoken-1>Bye.