Jaren Johnston - American Country Singer-Songwriter

 Holy shit, this guy's written like 12 songs that I sing in the shower that I didn't even know or his like that's what artists are supposed to do and that's supposed to sit around and wait for somebody to say whether or not something to hit or not and I said I will do this as long as you just let me kind of do my thing and I think this will be a good partnership and that's when you see the benefit of country radios when you got one 30s or in the 20s and you're like oh wow these are different these aren't the same flannel air and old people coming to the show. He's 15 cool.
 Most of these guys are you drinking every night plan? Yeah, I'm drinking now man. I know I mean me too. I just know it's my beer but like
 You're listening to the rad cast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host Ryan Alfred. Hey guys, what's up welcome to the latest edition of the rad cast.
 Radically country today folks. Radically Southern. You can say my friend Jared Johnson. What's up brother? Hey man, thanks for having me on here, dude. Hey man, my pleasure. I've been following from afar and DM and you're going damn I gotta get that guy on there.
 I fall in love with the music and then I'm like holy shit. This guy's written like 12 songs that I sing in the shower that I didn't even know or his.
 It is a writings. You're badass man. I love it. Well, I appreciate that man. I'm sorry I missed the the man in my managers wouldn't get back to you. Dude, you got so big. I mean, you know, it was like this time of year, everybody shuts down. I think they just stopped looking at emails all the way. So I just started texting you.
 I know. I was like, let's get out of the way here. Let's just make this happen. You're down at the beach, beach in it. I'm having a beer on a on a Wednesday before Christmas. So, you know, we'll get you to start around 10 30 a.m. around here with mimosas and then
 get a little nap when the kid naps and then you get up and I don't know that then it's time to pop the tops. There we go. I like it. That's what we do. We go down to folly beach in Charleston, which is my favorite spot.
 It's a little old, a little grungy. I like it a little crunchy around the edges. And yeah, you know, my buddy kept kept more just he's building the house there right now in folly. Yeah, that's cool. Look at your name dropping already.
 Get more. I know. Well, cool. Jerry, and I want to let's back up a little bit for everybody. I'm sure some of our audience has heard. I know they've heard your music, whether you've written it or played it with, you know, member of the Cadillac three, which we'll talk about.
 But let's give everybody a little bit. I know we could talk for probably two hours about your story. But, you know, maybe give us the a little bit of that background and your history and what makes you such a damn good country music writer.
 Man, I grew up in Nashville is born raised, which is kind of not that's not the normal situation. You know, they, I think they kind of call us unicorns, the people that are actually born in Nashville, rather than moving to Nashville.
 And I came up, you know, went to school downtown, he and my dad was always a drummer, the grand old opera, he was a drummer for the bunch of older country artists in the 80s and early 90s.
 And then he started pitching in songs, which means, you know, like, finding songs from writers and taking them to John Michael Montgomery or whoever and trying to get them recorded.
 And so I saw that at a very early age and remember seeing how excited dad would get when he got a whole quote unquote a hold, which means the artist or the manager liked it for whoever.
 And I was just like kind of mesmerized by that whole thing, like the equation of sitting down, writing a song by yourself or with friends. And then two weeks later, it's, you know, a recording by Garth Brooks or whoever, you know what I mean?
 I just always thought that was so cool. So I kind of started touring when I was 18 playing drums for a bunch of bands. And then I started writing songs, man, and got serious real serious about it about 2005.
 And, you know, got my first publishing deal and from then on, it's just kind of been a crazy, you know, country western ride.
 Exactly. What are you, how you classify your writing style? I mean, what's your, obviously, country, but like, do you think you have a certain style?
 Yeah, well, mine's like, you know, I think the reason I've had the success that I've had, or at least part of it, part of the whole game is being in the right circles and being around the right people.
 I think I would classify my styles just left of centers as far left as I can get without, you know, just, I like it still to be accessible because I grew up in a time where, you know, Garth Brooks was the biggest thing in the world.
 It's commercial music, but it was country, you know, Hank Williams Jr. Stuff like that that was like hangs on the side of like, left his head, but man, when he wants to deliver a strike, he delivers a strike.
 So I think that's the fun part about the way that I try to write. And, and like I said, it's also like who you surround yourself with the people that you're writing with and the people that work your songs that are working for your publishers and stuff.
 Yeah, I just try to go into every room with something a little different and try to do things the way that aren't expected, you know.
 Yeah, I like that. And it's much the creative process, I own an ad agency and it's kind of the same thing when we're developing ads.
 It's like, how far can I push it? You don't want to alienate mainstream, but if it's different, it sells, you know, and it's kind of the same thing with music.
 So, Jiren, I'm going to make it, we're going to start that name dropping thing. I think it's at nine number one hits that you've written. Am I, am I sure changing you?
 Or is that right? No, I think that's, I think that's about right. And it's funny. Somebody asked me that the other day and I said seven.
 And my wife popped her hand and she goes, no, you're, you're, you're not. She's kind of like, that's exciting.
 Yeah, dude. I mean, a lot of people just go hang it up on one, you know, but nine, even if it's just, I mean, you know, it's funny because you always think as a son under you're like, you always think that even when you've had success, you're like, and that you feel bad, like cancel the right because you're like, oh damn.
 That, that could have been the one that was, you know, girl crush or, you know, sweet home Alabama. You know what I mean? And you're like, so that's how you kind of stay in it. But, um, yeah, man, I've been real lucky and, um, so I'm proud of the,
 the proud of those, those hits to it. It's, it's pretty fun to be driving down the road here in Florida and here, beach in or here, sunshine and whiskey. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
 And nobody around me knows, I knew the other cars that I'm the one that road.
 Yeah, Frankie Ballard sunshine whiskey. That's a real newer one. Right. I might be, is that your newest one? Is that, is that, I mean, no, that was like, I guess that was a while back. I think my newest one was American country loves on jaco.
 There we go. Jacob one. I like his stuff. Beach in was awesome. I still like go to that's all my, I got my country, my three country playlist. I got my old phase, my new phase and my, you know, I need just some country music phase.
 Like, it's like, those are my three country playlist and, uh, in a beach ins on there. There was at least I once I started going through all your songs. It's like five songs on here. Damn. And look ironic thing about beach and was it the beach and song bought this beach house.
 Thanks, Jacob. Thanks, Jake. Hey, I like that. I said you went there. It's funny. You know, it's a, we're business and marketing podcast, but we've gotten to the point where I also just get to chair.
 I also just get to cherry pick the people that I admire and it and see from afar and, you know, just want to learn more about, uh, the business of country music, you know, you've been in it for a while. I mean, oh, five. Like you said, maybe getting your feet really into it with the songwriting. I mean, you've seen a lot of change, right?
 Yeah. Talk about some of that. What the biz like that that journey of the business side of it. I mean, it seems pretty cut through it from the outside.
 It can be pretty brutal. Um, like an example, I started in 2005. That's when I got my first publishing deal, making 30 grand a year.
 Um, I had to turn in 10 songs a year, which is 100% songs, meaning like, if it's a two way counts as half of one, you know, and I mean, or three way by so on and so forth.
 Um, and that, and it was a co-pub deal, which means I own half day on half. So that's a pretty good deal coming into the game. And my publisher was a really nice guy to help me out.
 So it wasn't until 2010, late 2010, where I had my first number one, that's five years, you know, like, and there would be a couple songs that got recorded in between there, but you're not really seeing money from that unless it's on the radio.
 So, um, you're living off that publishing, you know, the 30 grand a year, and you're trying to keep that deal every year too, which is if you're not getting a bunch of stuff going on its tough. Now I had the luck and the blessing of being also like what they call triple threat.
 So I was writing for other people. I had my own ban on the record, Dylan Warner Brothers at the time called American Bang. And I also was producing a little bit of stuff. So there, there's many irons on the fire there as far as business speaking.
 And I try to look at it still that way. I'm probably, I mean, there's a lot of busy cats in Nashville, but I would say right now.
 Um, I mean, with the Cadillac three, all the touring, um, the production work, I'm producing kit moors, new record, I'm doing just at Sam Williams record and bunch of stuff like that. And then also the writing every day, it gets pretty, it's pretty crazy. But if one thing's not doing as well, you got something to follow on the other side.
 The first occasion we could endure. Yeah. And COVID, it would continue or so I have songwriting and production work to back to fall back on. Um, and so that's kind of the, you know, but yeah, as far as natural in the business side of things, you know, and I've seen it change like you were saying so drastically in the last five years, where a lot of the songwriters are moving to town and they're primarily track guys, which means they, they, you know, they run the tracks and they play a.
 They build a track and you top on it, meaning they, they got this, I mean, I got this group, boom, boom, chicken, boom, chicken, chicken, I'm like cool and I go, it's a truck and a dog and a sun.
 Yep. And then a song is born, but you got all these track guys where you're, you know, it's, it's, it's a little tougher to compete with because I run tracks and stuff too, but I also top on.
 So you've just got more people in the game. So it's just like in this like house market and Nashville, you know what I mean? Like it's like, it's, it's just getting so packed with competition. It's, it's gotten harder. It's, it's a crazy game, man.
 Is, is it like this? Is there pressure? Can you get rat? I would think, look, Nashville, so damn hot, you know, in country music, so hot, like in a, you know, popularity and everything.
 It just seems like you could get caught up in that rat race and I don't know, get swallowed whole, maybe trying to like, you know, do your own thing, be your own artist, but also having the realities of that.
 I don't know, the business and I don't, it's not even just a competition. I would just think there's, I don't know, there's got to be some backstab, but I don't know, I'm not trying to pull drama or something that's not drama, but I just would think with all that it's going on, it just would be cutthroat.
 And every time I turn a radio on, I hear something, whether it's a guitar lick or a lyric that's in one of my songs, it happens a lot with like, you know, you'll hear something. I'm not going to do the names, but the other day I heard something and it's one of the biggest songs, you know, it's going to be one of the biggest songs on country.
 And it's a direct ripoff of an old Cadillac 3 song, because a lot of these guys that are big now, when they, when we started in 2011, they were going to whiskey jams in Nashville, they were going to writers rounds in Nashville, they were coming to Cadillac shows, they were doing, so you're hearing a lot of that.
 It's also a way to see like how you've affected or influenced a market or genre, which is kind of fun, but at the same time, you're like, okay, all right, okay.
 Yeah, a little too close.
 Yeah, I thought that's who you were talking about.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, there's a lot of.
 There's a lot of that fine line of flattery and, and what's the word paid?
 Suing.
 Yes.
 Lowering.
 There's a lot of those going on.
 And there's, there's three or four like, like, you know, loss of kind of things going on over songs right now that some of my friends are dealing with.
 And it's not fun, man, because if once you go down that road, it's like, it's, it's hard to come back friendship wise.
 You know what I mean?
 Yeah.
 It's as big as natural is getting it's still a very small town in that community, you know?
 Yep.
 I bet.
 And the only people that tend to make money in those, there's the lawyers by the time it all was settled.
 Yeah.
 Then just everybody's mad at each other.
 Everybody's broke.
 That's right.
 That's right.
 Talk to me about, I won't talk about Cadillac 3 some, and I know you had a progression with the bands, but you know, I'm going to be selfish because I like Cadillac 3 and they're fucking mad.
 That's you.
 Thanks, man.
 And I mean, I, like, I think I played, and I've got, I think I put it on the teaser on my story yesterday, long after the laugh call.
 Like, it's on a steady repeat seven times a day now in the car.
 I don't know what it is about that song.
 I don't know what the sound is, but that is just, it's just so it's, it's got a vibe.
 But I think, you know, Cadillac 3 is a vibe.
 Literally.
 Well, that's what's fun about Cadillac is like you can go to songs like that, you know, that are a little bit more.
 You know, I wrote that song like 2014 by myself down down the road and a little room.
 And it just kind of resurfaced where I'd always kind of liked it.
 Nobody recorded.
 I pitched it to Derrick's.
 I pitched it to everybody.
 Kenny Chesney.
 Keith.
 And Jake at one point.
 And nobody ever been on it.
 And I was just always like, man, I'm going to put this, I'm going to stick this on the country fuzz record the last song.
 And just see if anybody reacts to it.
 And everybody really liked my wife is like actually the only one that doesn't really like that song.
 Really?
 Every actually.
 Why would you like it?
 There's something about the melody or the way I sing it or something.
 I don't know.
 But she's, you know, she's the best judge of that stuff.
 Well, I've played it for 10 people now that don't know Cadillac 3 and everyone, everyone I'm playing it now.
 Oh, that's good.
 Not good.
 It's a jam in its own way.
 It's mellow, but it's not like put me sleep mellow.
 It's more like thoughtful and I don't know.
 It's right.
 I call it riding down the road music.
 And I had it on the party last night and it was well received.
 So it's a very mellow party.
 Well, it was just, we turned it up loud though.
 We were sitting on a drinking wine.
 We were drinking wine and watching black and white movies on silent and listening to on that relaxed call.
 How loud you turn it up.
 It is.
 But no, but talk about Cadillac 3, you know, influences like, you know, kind of the history of the band.
 And like, you know, I know you guys got a tour next year may build into that.
 Yeah.
 The Cadillac 3 started in 2011 after a terrible falling out with Warner Brothers records in our last band, the American Bang Band.
 And basically, we got dropped from the label in 2010, like December.
 And in January 2nd, we were in the studio with Dave Cobb doing the first Cadillac record.
 And just the three of us.
 And it was kind of a no rules thing because, you know, we've been pulled in so many directions by the A&R staff at Warner Brothers and the president of the company.
 And this band was going to be, okay, this is my way.
 This is the only way we're doing this.
 I'm writing this song as I want to write.
 We wrote 11 songs in like two weeks and did the record.
 Like, that's what artists are supposed to do.
 They're not supposed to sit around and wait for somebody to say whether or not something's a hit or not.
 You know, and I think a lot of artists in town, Derek's, Derek's being one and Eric Church being one.
 I heard that record and saw.
 I've known them for a while, you know, through a songwriting community.
 But like, they kind of respected how we bounced back and did something really cool on our own by ourselves.
 And it was cool sign. It was a different sound.
 It was guitar drums and lap still.
 And, you know, I didn't, I hadn't heard of anybody else really doing that.
 And we started doing on our own, man. We got in the van again.
 No trailer. All the gear in the back of the van.
 And back and forth to Texas, Chicago, Florida, South Carolina, Atlanta, Chattanooga, Memphis.
 And did that for two and a half years and build up our own fan base, the old school way.
 And got it to a point where it was big enough.
 But we couldn't get any bigger unless we brought in the right partners.
 And so that is, I know this is a business podcast.
 So it's like, if you look at like that, that's when we started really looking at it.
 You know, those two years in, after two years, we were all in salary, making 50, 60 grand a year.
 And because we weren't having to paint anybody, you know what I mean?
 And we were driving ourselves.
 So we had a couple different interests in town.
 Warner Brothers ironically.
 And then I get a call on Dave from Big Machine, President Scott Machetta.
 And he said, hey, what are you guys doing next weekend?
 I said, we're actually off. And he said, will you fly down?
 Can I fly you down to Cancun?
 So you can meet the label, play for us and tell us how you want to do this.
 And I said, oh, that's a pretty cool way of courting an artist.
 So I said, sure. So we go down there and met everybody.
 And, you know, they love the music, love the mindset.
 And, you know, we stick out, I don't know if you're familiar with their roster,
 but we stick out like a sore thumb.
 At the time, it was rascal flats and Taylor Swift and, you know,
 the band Perry, Thomas Ritt.
 And so we, I thought it was really cool because, you know, I, he, me and Scott shook hands.
 And I said, I will do this as long as you just let me kind of do my thing.
 And I think this will be a good partnership.
 And so we sound a big machine brought on a manager out of Texas for the time.
 And we, we got to work, man.
 And I said, he said, how do you want to do that?
 I said, well, I'm sick of driving myself.
 So we need a, either a sprinter van or something and a tour manager.
 So he paid for that, bought us that and got us on the road.
 And the way that was a little easier on us because we could sleep in the back and stuff.
 And next thing, you know, man, we're, you know, putting songs on the radio.
 And doing pretty good.
 And that's when you see the benefit of country radio is when you've got one,
 30s or in the 20s.
 And you're like, oh, wow, these are different.
 These aren't the same flannel Aaron old people coming to the show.
 There's, there's some girls in the crowd.
 Look at that.
 He's, he's 15.
 Cool.
 Yep.
 The way he was hearing you was on the radio.
 Yeah.
 So we started hearing that.
 And then that's also right about them.
 We did like the nationals show where we got on there with kind of written.
 And all the, the, uh, whatever it was called Nashville, but we're on there.
 And so at that point, you get to where you're like, you're getting recognized at pilots and flying jays at four in the morning by truck drivers or.
 And so you get, you get a little bit, get a little bit of that.
 And then from then on, man, we got really lucky with the Florida Georgia line guys took us out for a year,
 Eric took us out for a year and them.
 Now it's gotten the world wide.
 And we're doing something really cool.
 And we don't have a lot of radio help these days.
 So it's kind of like it's, it's still we're keeping that same mindset from the beginning.
 We're doing it our way and building it.
 And it's, it's, it's a lot of fun because me and Kelbee and Neil, the other guys in the band, we all grew up together in Nashville.
 And there's, there's none of that in town.
 You know, there's none of that.
 That's most bands are going to put together or they meet each other in a songwriting room and decided to become a duo.
 You know what I mean?
 Yeah.
 No, man.
 You guys did it the old school way, you know, growing the following organically.
 It's exhausting.
 The hard way.
 Didn't have all the shortcuts.
 But the talk about the, how is it on the road?
 I mean, is it, you have to love it and I don't know, I wouldn't say hate it, but it's, is it a love hate relationship?
 Well, in 2014, it is different now that I have a kid.
 I will say that and Neil's got a little baby girl too.
 But we love it because we've always done it.
 And there's something about the three of us.
 And when we leave the bus and hit the stage, there's a fire that you don't really get in a lot of other things you do.
 You know, I could probably relate it to like, or compare it to like a football game or, you know, like a, you're going on stand or like a wrestling match, you know?
 Yeah, coming to the ring.
 Yeah, pretty, pretty much.
 And then you get, you kind of get into that whole world and it's, it's a lot of fun.
 I think in 2014, when we got out of the, um, the vans and everything and pretty much decided we were going to be on a bus.
 A lot of times that was a little easier on us.
 So it, it changed travel.
 That's what makes that whole thing so hard a lot of times is the, is if you're, you know, you're, you're traveling hard like a lot of dates and you're having to do all the work.
 You know, you're not getting a nice sleep. So like that.
 So I mean, it's like, we don't go anywhere without the bus.
 We have buses in the UK.
 You're up and everything as well.
 And it's like, it's, it made it.
 That's, that's when you can't, we all kind of looked around each other and we're like, we can do this.
 It's, it's, it's the roads a lot of fun.
 And we, you know, we've got a studio on the back of our bus here in the States.
 And so I work a lot on the road, too.
 Because you're, you get to the venue that morning, you travel overnight and you have all data.
 Do whatever.
 You usually find a Mexican restaurant.
 Usually, uh, write a song, get a nap, go for a room, whatever.
 You know, I mean, so it's, it's, it's a lot of fun.
 That's cool.
 The, uh, I guess once it's in your blood, not, I could, you know, certainly see, I played sports.
 I don't know that it was ever at the level that was, you know, coming out the thousands of fans screaming.
 But it was high enough to get the, the juices going to, to kind of see what that bus was.
 But I mean, I got to ask you this question.
 I've always wanted this and I've had other artists on.
 I've never asked.
 What percent?
 You can answer this for, for yourself or for others.
 Like, how many people are drinking the entire night?
 They put like a, most of these guys, are you drinking every night, playing like our most artists?
 Yeah.
 I'm drinking now, man.
 I know.
 I mean, too.
 I just finished my beer.
 But like, you know, like, is it, is that, that's just part of it, right?
 I mean, it's just the lifestyle.
 I mean, I'll give you, I'll give you a night's rundown.
 All right.
 It'll be.
 Yeah.
 I want to know, we played Thursday, Friday, Saturdays, and usually home 9 a.m. Sunday morning,
 right?
 Leave Wednesday night at midnight on the bus.
 And then I would say, you know, if we go on at nine, let's say nine, 15, all right?
 At 815 on the dot, me, this is just my own thing.
 You're a ritual.
 Red Bull, Tito's and Red Bull.
 I have one of those.
 See how I'm feeling.
 Then I make a tall one for this stage.
 Nice.
 And we go on and you're fired up because Red Bull gives you wings.
 Yep.
 And, um, and the Valka makes you not, makes you not talk about, or makes you not overthink the lyrics.
 So you don't forget that stuff.
 That's a nice combo.
 It's a good combo.
 And then, yeah.
 And then my two Amanda makes me one half way through the show.
 And then we get down.
 We just sit around drinking beer and talk about what we did right or what we did wrong.
 But yeah, I would say, you know, there's people like, like, you know, Derek's will probably have like one beer.
 If anything, when he goes on, he used to drink a little bit more.
 But like, Eric's the whiskey guy, you know, Keith's sober.
 So Keith doesn't drink anything on there.
 And he puts on a hell of a show.
 So I think it's a little different for everybody.
 And obviously that, that whole situation changes the older you get, I would imagine.
 But, um, yeah.
 But yeah, man, it's usually a pretty, pretty rowdy situation for the whole, you know, time you're out.
 I mean, the Cadillac three.
 I mean, the whole vibe, dude, you got it.
 It's like, I'd almost been disappointed if you hadn't told me that.
 I kind of assumed.
 And the Red Bull thing, I couldn't, I couldn't wait to keep your energy up.
 But yet the vodka, you know, it was my drink of choice, you know, when I was single, you know, you're a jacked up.
 But the alcohol kind of melted out.
 So you had it all together.
 Yeah, it's probably not the best thing for my, my, my parental unit.
 But it's, you know, it is what it is.
 What's the marketing for you guys?
 So, you know, you guys are doing it different.
 You know, I mean, you cranked out what two albums here in like the last year and a half or so.
 I mean, like, you guys are crushing like albums out.
 Like, like anyone else that always just trying to ride one single into, you know, five song EP.
 And you guys are putting out two albums.
 And, but not chasing the singles.
 So I mean, like, what's the marketing kind of, you know, the singles kind of carry everybody now, right?
 From marketing and stuff.
 But what's, I mean, you guys, I guess just that organic following and, you know, living, you know, keeping your fans happy.
 I mean, what's your kind of approach on that on the marketing side?
 And I know you got team that manages it.
 But I'm sure y'all talk about it.
 Yeah, it's, I mean, it stays back to that whole, it goes all the way back to the 2011 thing on something about where, you know, our approach was always going to be, do it our way, word them out, hit the streets, you know, worldwide.
 It do is go to Europe and UK as many times as we can every year.
 The, you know, there's something to be said for a loyal, I mean, a lot of these guys and girls coming out now that let's say they have a number one hit can't sell 500 tickets in their hometown.
 You know what I mean?
 And that's, that's not, that's not doing anything for anybody.
 So, I think that ours is more content, less, less directing one thing at one thing, like a single to radio, which let's be honest, everything we kind of do is, you know, it's left, man.
 And it's, we're doing it on purpose.
 There's that mentality, I think, that if we build it so big, at one point, radio won't be able to not play it because it's, you know, the fans want it, the country fans want it.
 It's like a rock thing, you know, we've, we've kind of leaned a little bit more rock some.
 And this new record we're about to start a new one next month and it's leaning a little bit more rock, but it's like, you know, I'm not mad at rock station.
 And since an added planet, you know, because it's all the same thing.
 So I think our idea for marketing is as many irons on the fire, we put out putting out more records and songs and videos and all that stuff and touring as much as you can.
 It's more irons on the fire. Every one of them is going to do something for you.
 So I believe in that one for our particular situation, you know, like for some of these kids out doing it now, it wouldn't that wouldn't work.
 You know what I mean? Because they don't sound any different from Thomas Redt or whoever to make a dent without that radio single.
 But, you know, that thing about 500 tickets in your hometown, if you can't do that, that's your somebody in your team is doing it wrong.
 Like we just did two headlining sold out shows at the ramen and natural that's 2500 tickets each night.
 And that's realistically 20 years of kicking ass and working for an 11 specifically with this band or 10 with this with this band.
 So, you know, there's there's I don't think there's there's maybe six or seven other country artists in town that could probably do two nights of the ramen sell it out that are at our level.
 You know, right. Well, it's I think there's something we're doing something, right?
 Clearly, but I think it starts with the music. I mean, that's the vast the bottom line.
 You know, I hope so because that's the easy part.
 Well, you play in the game, right? You're getting content out there a lot. That's why I caught you caught my own social once I kind of heard you and through the grapevine and all that.
 It's funny. I had coffee Anderson. I don't know if you've heard of him, who's 100% independent out of Texas. He was on Netflix and to this day doesn't have a record deal.
 But I think makes more more money than a lot of the B level, you know, natural.
 Those Texas dudes, man, they don't mess around with I think he's from Texas. Yeah, he is. I think it's been some time in California, but he's I think he's originally Texas. Yeah, and he's there down.
 He, yeah, I met him. I was in the studio of doing Chris Schifflet from the food fighter. We're making a record together and we walked out of the vocal room and coffee was standing there. And you know, he's a big guy.
 Six six something. And I just hear like, Hey, Jerry.
 Coffee, you know, and he puts his hand out like, Hey, man, you know, I had no idea. And so we sat there and talked for a minute, really super guy sings very smart.
 But yeah, the Texas thing is so interesting because we did a lot of going back and forth to Texas in the beginning trying to build something down there.
 And Texas is Texas. If you're from Texas, you know, then they'll they'll listen to it. It could be even terrible music, but they'll represent it because it's Texas.
 But I remember talking to Randy Rogers one day on the road. And he told me what he made in one year just in Texas alone. And I said, dude, and he was at the time he had a record deal in national. He's going back and trying to do the radio thing.
 Yeah. I was like, dude, what are you doing? I would not leave the house. If I made that much money in one year and once and didn't have to leave Tennessee, holy shit, man.
 And he was just like, oh, man, you know, I was like, well, obviously, you don't know what people are making a Nashville because you're way ahead of the game, bro.
 Yeah, I think it's being spread then with all the, I don't know the sea. There's a sea of sameness a little bit like you said going on. That's the only negative. I like that country. He's gotten more mainstream a little bit and all that, but it's.
 I don't know some of the stuff. I'm kind of having to look remind myself who it sounds like the same thing I heard on the last one.
 Well, that's why you have three playlists.
 Yeah, cool thing about cool thing about the country, John. I told somebody this and something else. It's neat because you've got room. You've got room for a guy like Eric Chert.
 And his own thing could be a little heavier, could be whatever still country, you know, as it gets with that tender voice, his delivery and the songwriting.
 And then you got room for Sam Hunt who's taking his approach, you know, who's doing the more talky kind of thing, but you know, beaten was like that too is like talking in the verses and all that stuff.
 You have room for us, a band that's just completely off the map. But every now and then hit you with something that makes a little bit sense to be in the genre.
 But it's interesting. That's what I like about country music. There's just so much, so much, you know, different.
 There's just different takes on it, I guess, you know, like get more springsteen, you know, like that kind of lane. It's neat. Everybody kind of has a lane. It's pretty fun.
 Yeah. And I know you mentioned it. And, you know, you're, you uh, maybe you don't self promote as much as I'd like for you to, but that Sam Williams albums pretty fire.
 Oh, thanks, man. I really enjoyed that different. And he's great man. He's different man. Yeah, man. I like that. He's a work with too.
 Glass houses, something. Yeah, man. I've been digging that. Yeah. A lot of people don't know that he's Hank William, the junior's youngest son. Yeah, man.
 And if you look at that guy, I know it's a Hank senior. Oh, God. I see. It looks just like him. Just like him. Yeah, he's good dude. Yeah, man. I've been enjoying that. I caught it on your feed.
 I don't know. A couple of months ago, you posted that. I guess you'd producer or whatever. I'm like, all right. Then I'm like, damn, he doesn't look like Sam William. He's got his own lane.
 You know, and I mean, it didn't sound. I mean, there's a little taller children. They're just vocal similarities, but he's kind of doing his own, you know, take on.
 And it's, and it's really cool because it's super unexpected because I mean, it coming out, you remember when Shooter came out, Shooter Jennings. Yeah, you know, that first record. He's out like Wayland. You know, and I mean, so it's like, it's.
 And now Shooters got his own lane. It's it's a really cool. There's a couple of people doing some really cool stuff. It's just a little harder. Takes a little longer to get there. I think. Yeah. And this is almost call it alternative country. I mean, like, you know, I don't know. That's the right bucket. That's almost where I put him. You know, like, yeah, I mean, I should be. They should really do that. I mean, I know a lot of people point those people towards Americana. Yeah, I think there should be an alternative country.
 I don't know a situation. I think there should be a Grammy for. I think there should be a CMA for there should be an ACM for Canada does it. Canada has its own genre and it's alternative country. And they give a word for it. I mean, I think if that happened in that way, and they had alternative country radio stations as many as they had real.
 Oh, but here being a bigger beach house.
 Yeah, you never, never say never. Never say never is what's your favorite bar in Nashville?
 Oh, goodness. Well, I haven't been to one in two years really because it's terrifying down there, but I can tell you we used to really love the red door down there.
 But you know, it's like bar scene in Nashville. It's kind of tough as you can't once you get to be certain level like I call myself D plus famous.
 Yeah, in Nashville, in Nashville. Are you pretty known? Yeah, I would think so. Yeah, and so you can't go. We can't really go do that like you used to.
 People just won't leave you alone. Yeah, they won't leave you alone. And it's, you know, especially down in the back.
 I think I lost you. Oh, there we go. Okay, we're back. We're back. Yeah, but you can pick it back a little different. They.
 You would like to think, I don't know, the Nashville be cool enough that people would like that. I guess it's just so much tourist or whatever and so what they know is the tourist. Yeah, yeah.
 And they, they don't see, you know, say me and Dirk, or whoever, Jake, go get a beer. Yeah, they don't see that every day. And so you're, you know, it's like.
 It's interesting, but I mean, Red Door was always great as a good bar. There's, it's, I used to really love spring water and gold rush. It's not there.
 But they torn down a lot of the old good ones that we should go to. Yeah. What about, I know you brought up Luke. I was going to ask you, you know, your opinion on a couple guys. Like I'm not asking you to talk shit. I'm just saying like Morgan, Morgan.
 Well, I mean, these guys that are this seemingly the hot, the hot of the hot, at least on the, I don't know, radio stations. It seems like, you know, Luke and Morgan, I mean, Morgan, keep himself out of trouble.
 He would have no tell him where he can go. Yeah, that's, that's kind of just, I've known him a long time. He's, you know, it is what it is. It's that I have a feeling. I hope he does well.
 I hope the best for him and I hope he keeps his nose clean. But, you know, you kind of just think it's only matter of time. But I mean, I know his team's watching it pretty good. And he's trying. So he's talented.
 Dude, he's, I think he's one of better singers in town. Yeah. And he's cutting great songs. He's, he's a good writer. I've written a couple with him. He's, you know, and you know, it's, it's that thing. He got big so quick that I think that his 27 year old mind or whatever could not handle it. And so you can see when that happens.
 You know, Kingsley on guys got big like that really quick. Yeah. And we kind of saw that because we were coming up at the same time. I think, you know, I'm friends with all those, all those guys that most of them are really good. There's a couple, you know, that are drinking their own Kool A little, little too much. But what are you going to do? You know, it's like, you play the game with them. And yeah, okay, cool. You know, whatever. I like, I think the biggest country star coming for 2022 is going to be hardy.
 Yeah. I think, I think he's going to pass all of them. Except that ass. He is. Yeah. He's great. He's one of the, I think he's probably one of top five talented talent wise songwriters in Nashville.
 I love that album. And I still like just used to bringing his name up. I've got like, I got dirt in my boots. I've said that song because that was different to like, had almost like a rock riff to it.
 You know, I can't sing, but you know, like, you know, I'm probably here. We'll hear a lot of those risks.
 If you, that thing I was talking about earlier, if you go back, let's smoke Cadillac Rich, you might hear something in some parties.
 But he's, he's awesome. I talked to him this morning. So he's great. That's cool.
 So, uh, Jaron, as we wrap up a little bit here, man, I don't want to keep going to get you back to your lovely family is, uh, I mean, when it's all said and done, like, what?
 Tell me the, the, the book cover for Jaron, like, what's, what do you want, what do you want people to, or maybe not the book cover, the sentence, the two sentences?
 Like, what, what kind of legacy are we trying to leave?
 I mean, I, you know, this is tough to wrap that up, but in a, in a, with a bow on it, because there's so much stuff that we've done and that so much stuff that I still want to do.
 But, um, you like to think that it's, it's kind of like a, you, the Tom Petty in the heartbreakers, you know, or something, use them it, use them where Tom Petty, you know, did so much like with the band.
 Um, wrote great songs for other people.
 Um, did crazy things like, with Johnny Cash and Tourist Dylan's band and, you know, they have beautiful family and all that stuff.
 I mean, I think that's the kind of thing I think Dave Grohl has kind of also done something similar where it's kind of like the life that people like me try to strive for.
 You know, on a family level and then on a professional career level, you know, those guys pretty much done everything you can do.
 And so that's kind of, you know, that's, that's, that's probably, that probably be the little sentence.
 He did everything, he did everything he could do, you know, that, that kind of thing, you know.
 Yeah, man. Well, you're super talented and a super cool dude and I couldn't be more thankful for you coming on the show, man.
 Thanks for having me, man. It's been a blast.
 Yeah, man, let's stay in touch. I'll, uh, I know we can't grab a beer because you'll get Bob, but we'll, uh, get some Nashville.
 I'm a texture and maybe we get at least, uh, you know, catch up or something.
 Let's do it, man. I'll take you to dinner. I got you. Be great.
 All right, Jared. All right. Hey, guys, you know what I find us? We're at theradcast.com search for Jared.
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