Jane Pike

Podcast Introduction (
00:00:12
):
You're listening to the journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller Warwick is a horseman, trainer, international clinician and author, whose mission is to help people achieve a deeper connection with their horses through his transformational training program.
Warwick (
00:00:35
):
Welcome back to the journey on podcast. We have a great guest today. We have one of my favorite people in the world all the way from New Zealand. Miss Jane pike. How are you, Jane?
Jane (
00:00:46
):
Hello, mr. Warwick. I'm fabulous. I'm super excited to be here.
Warwick (
00:00:51
):
I'm super excited. You're here.
Jane (
00:00:53
):
It's so fabulous. You've got a podcast too. I've been waiting for this moment. So many of us have been waiting for this moment.
Warwick (
00:01:00
):
Well, I was a guest on your podcast. It was a while ago now.
Jane (
00:01:05
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Yeah, that was when I was at your house. I think, yeah, cause I started, I think I just started my podcast prior to coming over. Cause I was working out the tech and I had the bright idea of recording some of the talks at the Western state horse expo. And I was like, how do I get the technology to make that happen? And so that's where I had my little magic audio device that we sat around and recorded an interview with afterwards, I think.
Warwick (
00:01:32
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Yeah. I almost totally forgot abou t that. Not that I forgot about your podcast, but I forgot about where we recorded that thing, you know?
Jane (
00:01:39
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Yeah. Yeah. I read it was in Tyler's room. Tyler wasn't there. I remember it clearly.
Warwick (
00:01:44
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That's right. It wasn't that yeah. Tyler was still off in college. I think.
Jane (
00:01:47
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Yeah. So much happens in a year. Isn't that crazy?
Warwick (
00:01:51
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Was that a year or two years?
Jane (
00:01:53
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No idea. It was two years. No, it would be, I think it was a year
Warwick (
00:01:59
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Cause two years ago is the World Equestrian Games
Jane (
00:02:01
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Yeah. Yeah. I think getting memories pop up on Facebook related to that, that make me smile every time. So good. Yeah.
Warwick (
00:02:09
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So you guys, you guys would have heard us talking in previous episodes about the World Equestrian Games and the help of Jane pike. And I've also mentioned Jane, I think in maybe episode one and episode two. So John you're, you're a regular here on the podcast,
Jane (
00:02:26
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So good. Thank you. I'm honored.
Warwick (
00:02:29
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So this podcast, I'm trying to make it about the journey people's journeys. And so, or maybe you should, we should tell anybody what exactly is it you do at the moment and then we might backtrack and figure out how did you get there?
Jane (
00:02:45
):
Yeah, sure. Gosh. It's like the hardest question that I answer. I think so at the moment I have a business called confident rider and I am, I'm a mindset coach, but I'm also, I've kind of ventured on from just that title I think, or that kind of framework to incorporate movement-based techniques in my work as well that have all to do with nervous system regulation and kind of being able to come back to yourself, find a really good place to move from and nervous system awareness. So that kind of framework all encompasses the work that I do now. And it's all for horse riders or equestrians or people who are interested in building partnerships with their horses.
Warwick (
00:03:30
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Is it kind of, would you describe it as like somatic experiencing type thing?
Jane (
00:03:34
):
Yeah, it's, I'm hugely influenced by that. Yeah. Hugely influenced by that. So it was a really big piece of that work in there. I would say from my own studies and from people that I've been involved with there's mindful movement type work, so the movement to really get you aware of how it is your functioning so that we do really experiential-based learning. So when I, a while ago I studied equine-assisted learning just as part of the adventure. And within that particular paradigm of horsemanship or therapy, if you like, even though it's not therapy, you're very much guiding people through a process where they're experiencing in their own body, in their own reality, what it is that you're hoping to impart. So it's not like a cerebral experience. It's a really, it's a felt experience. And I think that the movement-based work that I'm doing now and the sematic work that I'm incorporating in now allows you to get a sense of where it is your own nervous system is sitting. So whether you have that, whether you find that you're operating from a place of being constantly impulsive, for instance, it just allows you to have that connection back to yourself to recognize how that feels in your body and what it is that you might be able to do to resource yourself, to come back into a much more I don't want to say appropriate but appropriate for the moment place. Yeah, but definitely sematic experiencing is is fascinating. I'm not a somatic experiencing practitioner, but it's definitely influenced my work.
Warwick (
00:05:09
):
Yeah. I've been having a weekly zoom weekly as much as I can zoom calls with a somatic experiencing therapist and yeah, it's all about that stuff. And I've also been doing quite a bit of yoga lately. And I've done it on and off for years, but I've been doing it every day. And I had figured out that I'm really good with the yoga. If I do it with my eyes closed, if I do it with my eyes closed, I can really think into that little toe or that corner of that forethought or my knuckles or whatever. But if my eyes are open, I can't. And so I do it off, you know, there's a lady on YouTube and I do it off there. And for the longest time, I'd, I'd be looking at the screen to, okay, what is she trying to do now?
Warwick (
00:05:52
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But now that I know basically all the moves, I can follow one of yoga things and basically not open my eyes and it's for me, cause I'm, you know, always been in my head being able to do the yoga with my eyes closed. It's really good. I can really be in my body and I actually had something interesting happening happened today. So I, I, I did something that apparently upset somebody else and I kind of offended them. I wasn't near them or something like I did something somewhere, but I, what I, what I noticed afterward that the feeling I got afterward is like my eyeballs ached. It's like, it was like, I was kind of tired, but it's like pressure in the back of my eyeballs and I realized it was there. And then I realized that, you know what, that's always been there every time I've been in that situation, but I've never actually been in my body enough to notice.
Warwick (
00:07:02
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It's kinda like, it's kinda like the World Equestrian Games. When I after, you know, after, I competed and we talked about this in the wig podcasts we did, but you know, World Equestrian Games, it wasn't until after I competed and I realized that something was different and I realized, what was it then like, huh? From what I seem to recall, there has been a voice in the back of my head. Every time it competed that said, you suck here. Do you think you are, what do you think you're doing? And I never ever realized it was there when it was there. It wasn't until it was not there that it came apparent to me that something was missing. What was it? And then I realized, huh, it's always been there and I've never really noticed it or pay attention to, and this was exactly the same thing. Just like I got this, I was very aware of that. It's like someone trying to poke your eyeballs out from the backside. And then I realized I felt that, but then I realized, I think I've always felt that in this situation I've just been in my head too much and not in my body enough to experience it. So yeah, it was pretty good.
Jane (
00:08:05
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Yeah. So did your awareness of that change the way that you perceive the entire situation?
Warwick (
00:08:13
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I'm not that far along this path yet. Jane
Jane (
00:08:16
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So interesting, isn't it only because I think that we have a very, we have a default channel if you like our preferred channel that we process incoming information with. And I think when you start to be aware of the ways that your body is responding in all of the different channels that are available. So for instance, we have like the visual channel, we have the sensation channel, the feeling channel movement, that sort of thing. And you've become aware of a sensation. And it's just a curiosity to me to think about har, like, I wonder if there was like the meaning that you attached to that situation or the thoughts that you had, the story that you attached to, what it was that was happening. I wondered if you were to shift horizontally, I call that. So you're sort of like moving sideways from that and being aware of the sensation that accompanies that, whether it changes the narrative that's attached to it, because we've kind of broadened our field of awareness to recognize that there's more that's happening that than is initially in our focus.
Warwick (
00:09:13
):
Yeah. I think that's probably where we're going to get. That's probably where my, I think that's where my somatic experiencing therapist is trying to go next, but first I've, you know, it's this therapist, I always say to me. So how does, how do you feel, how does that make you feel? I'm like, I don't know how I feel. I think I don't feel like, hang on a second. Let me do a little check and I'll tell ya, I'll get back to you on that. You know what I mean? And it's adding to just become a little more second night share that I'm aware of what I'm feeling, because I've been shut down for so long. What feelings are bad, we don't want to have those things. And so yeah, so I, I, today I was aware that I was aware of that pressure. My eyeballs, you know, it was, it was pretty interesting.
Warwick (
00:10:01
):
So I've got a list of questions that I've been asking all the guests on the podcast. And there's a list of eight questions that I kind of borrowed from Tim Ferris, from his book, tribe of mentors. He had 11 questions in there and I kind of paraphrase some of those and would have been doing with people is sending them the list of questions, say, pick, pick two, three, four, whatever you want from those questions. And we can talk about him. So Jane has picked some of my questions here. So I'm going to start asking you some questions, John. And one of the questions that you said that you thought you might have a good answer for is what was your biggest failure and how has it helped you?
Jane (
00:10:41
):
Sorry, this takes me right back to my school days or just at the end of school. And I had problems reading that question because failure, me and you both, I think it sort of has such a different connotation these days. I don't really truly believe in using the word failure and what it's attached to. But if I think about what that question meant and reflected back the biggest pivot point that was attached to a perceived failure at the time, well actually came off the back of a really big success. So at school, I was incredibly academic. I loved learning. I really liked getting things right. I was a very good girl. I just, you know, I tried really hard. I worked really hard and I can see actually why that was the case based on kind of family circumstances and things as well that I threw myself a lot into my work.
Jane (
00:11:39
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And so what happened was that I had this very clear idea about how life was going to roll out. You know, when you're like 17 or 18, you were like, I have got this plan. This is how this is going to go. There's like a step here, a step here, step here. And so my step was that I was going to go to Sydney university and I was going to study communications law, a double degree in communications law. It was a six-year degree and I was going to come out of that. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to pursue the journalism angle and go into I was actually really interested in being a war correspondent at one point and or the law angle, because I was also really interested in human rights issues. And so I was interested to take that angle of that law study.
Jane (
00:12:25
):
And so I studied and studied and I got a score of 96 out of a hundred. So basically you get five different subjects or the way that it worked at the time was that you had to take exams for, I think, like eight subjects and they took your best five. And each of those five subjects had a score out of 20 and I got four perfect marks. And then a 16, I think in a, I think that was in a different language or something. I lost a couple of marks and one of the points. And, and so I got I got enough to get into this course, which was really, really hard to get into. And I was really stoked and that was great. And so we lived in Tasmania at the time in Australia and I had written growing up.
Jane (
00:13:09
):
So I, we lived in a really, really rural place. I loved my horses. I didn't realize at the time how not isolated, but kind of protected. I was in the zone that I was in, you know, it was in the country. I had a really great group of friends. My horses were my life. We traveled and competed a lot all over Australia. And then all of a sudden I like had this little Mitsubishi colt. It was red and it had cows cow skin sheet covers on the front, like that really unattractive sort of fake cow skin sheet covers. And I drove that puppy all the way up to Sydney and got a little apartment in suburban Sydney with people that I didn't know. And I remember feeling kind of not great about that when I was there, it was very unsettling. And I just got wildly homesick.
Jane (
00:13:59
):
Like from the very beginning, I was so desperately homesick. I found the entire situation to be really overwhelming. Just the big city, you know, all of the different aspects that come with that. And I coped, but it was just not really my happy place. And I remember sitting around this circle and the lecture at the start asked us to introduce ourselves and I had nothing, you know, like I was just like, I, I just came because I did well at school and I got into the course and they were like, hi, y'all sorry, my dad, he is the executive producer for channel seven. And in the holidays I've been like going and doing this there. And then there's other people that felt, you know, you felt like they had like this huge depth of experience with Iris, just sitting there thinking, am I allowed to swear on your podcast?
Jane (
00:14:42
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Or is it, I was just thinking, Holy shit. Like I am so out of my depth here. And that was fine. I kind of kept going, but I knew instantly that I didn't want to be there. And I had this apparition, if you like of me just being in a desk, on a desk, sitting at a desk, rather surrounded by like paper and that being my life. And I was like, I don't want that life. And at one point within the journalism aspect of the course, so it was obviously separated between the two. They were like, you have to go out and get the story. And if you just got to keep asking and keep asking and keep asking, and I thought, I am not a keep asking person. If you say like, I'm sorry, I'm not ready to tell you that story. I'd be like, okay, fair enough. Thank you so much for your time. Have a fantastic day.
Jane (
00:15:30
):
I am not a hard nosed reporter. So I knew that it wasn't in alignment with my personality to keep going in that direction. And I told mom and dad, and I told them the university counselors and mum and dad were like, you know, just stick at it for a while. It's going to be hard. And literally one night I just packed, my little Mitsubishi caught up to the roof and I drove three States across Australia home on the ferry out of there. And that felt so good. It felt so good to do that.
Jane (
00:16:02
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But, I was so lost after that. I was so lost. I lost my my sense of self worth. I didn't realize how much I had attached an idea of academic success or this kind of outward version of success to myself. It became a little bit of a joke because amongst all my friends, I was really well known for being the one that like studied and got into this thing. And all of a sudden I was chopping and changing and they were like, Oh, there's Jane, she's changing again. And they all seem to have it sorted, you know, like they were going to uni, they stuck at things. And I didn't see myself as a person that couldn't stick at things, but all of a sudden it just appeared. Like I couldn't stick it, anything like I was trying stuff and it just didn't work.
Jane (
00:16:42
):
And that really although I probably appeared jovial about it on the surface, you know, like I could take the joke. I was even making the jokes. It really wasn't funny to me. Like, I really felt completely unsettled and like I had no anchor point that I knew about anymore. And so I was kind of free floating from that point. So that was the point though, looking back and I guess there's that great Steve jobs quote, of like, you only can connect the dots, looking backwards, not looking forwards that like, thank, thank God that happened, because if that hadn't had happened, everything that came after, which was pretty you know, unique in lots of ways wouldn't have come to be. And it was only like 10 years after that, that the same people that are making fun of me are going, Oh, you're so lucky that you had all these experiences. I'm like, you know, it's only, it's only when you reach a point of sort of success that can be measured in outward terms that people then feel some degree of kind of affirmation or happy to give you some sort of affirmation, I guess, about that. Yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah. So that's your
Warwick (
00:17:52
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That was the failure part. What, where did it, where did it lead you?
Jane (
00:17:56
):
So there was there was a few different things that happened around that point. One of the things that feeds into this story was I really seriously hurt my back and I'd always also been quite an athletic person. And I remember feeling like I had this huge burning ball, like a tennis ball type size down the bottom of my back. And every time I walked, I it just hurt. And so I became immobile and it was a variety of different things. I'd had an accident, which I, I think on reflection, I probably either fractured something or popped something and it didn't, and I kind of ignored it, you know? And then I went to a chiropractor who was quote unquote, going to help me. And then on his table, literally something happened. And that night I woke up in agony.
Jane (
00:18:44
):
So he obviously exacerbated whatever it was that was going on in that place. And then from then on I was really immobile. I would say, I couldn't do the things that I loved. I couldn't ride, I couldn't sit comfortably. I couldn't walk. And so all of these parts of my identity, but like literally like burning up around me and I felt so depressed. I was really dark there for a long time. And so part of the, part of the, that journey took me on some discovery work around how to make myself feel well and what it was that I could do in my own body to get me to a place where I would be well again. And for someone like me where in my family, they'd been struggles with depression and anxiety to quite a serious level. And that's why I think I was so contained because I was the stable presence in that part of the relationship, if that made sense.
Jane (
00:19:44
):
So I was like, I, I held it together with, from what I now understand is kind of like almost a form of functional freeze. And, and then from that place also, I was I really wasn't comfortable I guess, with being female, which sounds ridiculous in terms of like, I could keep up with the boys, there was nothing that you could do that would like, that would hold me back. I was like, I was tough. I was like in there and I was the tomboy, but I could see, I can see all this now. It's kind of like being a denial of the great stuff that comes with being female as well. So there's all these aspects of survival that like, you know, I mean, now I'm fine. I can do this. And all of a sudden, I can't, I can't do this.
Jane (
00:20:26
):
I now I don't have this academic side of me that I'm holding onto now. All of a sudden my body's falling apart, whereas this is going to take me. So I started to do a health science degree in Melbourne, in naturopathy. And and I did that for the three years. And then I remember to a friend I really, I just need to get away. I had this overwhelming urge to leave, like just to go somewhere. I wanted to get on a plane. I wanted to, to get off somewhere different where things were, where things were different. And and so we went to the travel agent. We didn't have much money and of course the Australians are like, Oh, we should go to Bali. Should we go to Bali? And, and they were like, well, Bali is completely booked out.
Jane (
00:21:13
):
It's the holidays. There's literally no flights, but we have some flights from New Zealand if you'd like to take them. And I was like, New Zealand, like, why would I want to go to New Zealand? I said that I was like, it's just like Australia. That's what it was. That's what it sort of felt like in my mind and Claire, my friend, we were like, yeah, that's it. Yeah, I do that. But anyway, we ended up going to New Zealand and we ended up traveling around for a couple of weeks and I just completely fell in love. And at that stage I was still studying. And then I said, I'm going to go back over summer and I'm going to do a bigger excursion. And Claire at that stage said, yeah, I'm going to come to. And and then she pulled the pin at the last minute and I was like, you know what?
Jane (
00:21:50
):
I think I'm just going to go, I'm still gonna go. And and so I went and after two days of arriving in Queenstown, I had a job. I had a flat and I was like, I'm not coming. I'm not going home. And I just didn't go home. I had like this point at that moment in time where I didn't have a horse that was going, I had no attachments. And I think actually I needed to leave to leave behind this identity that was really holding me back at that point. And I'd learned a lot of stuff through the health science degree. And I'd started, what I recognize now is kind of like planting the seeds for what was to come. But when I was in Queenstown, I met a lot it's a very transient place or definitely was before.
Jane (
00:22:38
):
COVID like a lot of travelers coming through. There are a lot of different international people. And I met a group of social workers that worked in Belgium at the time. And they, we became really good friends and I was talking to them about some of the work that I'd been doing and they talked to me and then I ended up going to Europe. It's like this crazy kind of like, Oh, and then she was on a plane to Europe. But I interned over there with some with some social workers. And then at one stage I it's such a disparate story. It sounds ludicrous when I say it out loud. I decided that I wanted to study yoga and that I'd, I'd been doing a couple of classes. And I was like, at that stage, I had really no idea what the true basis of yoga was.
Jane (
00:23:25
):
And I've since kind of created another definition for myself recently, but at that point, I thought you just got really flexible doing yoga. And I was like the opposite of flexible. I was like the concrete board that would snap. And so that really didn't sit well with me because I I liked to be good at the things that I do. And so I treated yoga like a little bit of a competition cause I was horrendous. Like I was just like in the class. And so I went on this kind of fortuitous experience of I'm just treating yoga, like any other form of systematic, The abuse that I had in the past,
Jane (
00:24:06
):
Like go to two classes a day. I do like the hardest fastest meanest yoga that was available to me, wondered why I was like feeling decreped. And I came across another person that I'd become friends with and she's like, Oh, you know, I've been in India. I think you'd really enjoy working with these people. And they're amazing. And, and she'd been doing this similar kind of very fast paced yoga and and and she showed me what they were doing. And I thought, Oh, crikey, that looks massively dove. Like it was so slow and everything matched with good breath. And it was about, you know, this, this and this. And but there was a therapeutic element to it, which intuitively I was really drawn to. So I think I had these two parts of me at war, which was like this you know, the part that was presenting, which has me trying to keep up with the world and fit in and do all those things.
Jane (
00:25:00
):
And the part of me, I guess which was like really con really wanted something with a little bit more substance. And so I ended up in India, I ended up in India and there's so many different pieces to this story, but inadvertently that was kind of the beginning of different studies in India. And also I traveled, I ended up in Israel and through the middle East and doing lots of aid work and emergency aid relief work and lots of yoga study in the meantime. And, and that was kind of the next five to 10 years, I guess. Yeah. I know that
Warwick (
00:25:42
):
Five to 10 years of yoga and aid work, who's got that on their resume.
Jane (
00:25:47
):
I know. Yeah, yeah. It's it was it was really, really, it was such a formative time for me, but I wouldn't say it was like all sunshines and rainbows, you know, it was, it was really hard. It was really hard, I think as well because I brought myself to it and myself wasn't in a really centered place. I was really good when I had something in front of me to put my love and passion and energy into. And, and that was what showed up. But in the quiet time, I really didn't know what to do with myself. You know, like I didn't know what to do. When I was just at back by myself. And I guess that's where I sort of recognized at the end of that particular phase that I couldn't keep going with what it was that I was doing because at some point everyone needs a base.
Jane (
00:26:41
):
Everyone needs a base to come back to. And at that point I was kind of baseless. I was baseless within myself and I was baseless for all geographic purposes as well. And so I decided to come back to New Zealand to make that my base, but but the whole in between part of that is kind of a big story in and of itself. I fell into working with a couple of different NGOs and we did a couple of different projects in India. And the, the basis of the work that I was involved in was aid relief work for four places and situations that were recovering post natural disaster. So if they'd been an earthquake or if they'd been a tsunami, like there was insure Lanka. And of course not just for Lanka, but things like that, that's where I would go in.
Jane (
00:27:30
):
And there would be a plan that would be devised for the area. And we would decide how best you could actually allow the village to essentially rehabilitate itself if you like. So after the 2004 tsunami, I was in Sri Lanka for 12 months in, he could do, which is down. If you think about Sri Lanka, it's kind of like got a long point at the bottom. We were down near the bottom. And that was a little fishing village that was particularly hard hit by the, by the tsunami that came through that time. Yeah. And and also I was in I lived in Israel for quite a significant period of time and in all around, they're doing some work there too. So I know it's sort of little pieces that sit together. And then
Warwick (
00:28:19
):
I recall you telling me one time about having your passport duct taped to your body when you sleep. What was that for?
Jane (
00:28:33
):
Yeah, sorry. So the big fear was after the tsunami that there was a second tsunami coming and the BBC was the main radio source that was playing through the radio in Sri Lanka at that time, that hadn't what was considered to be any kind of reliable news source. And I think that the thing to understand about a lot of the countries that I was in was that the government, isn't the place that you turn to for help, you know, your, even your police or people that we would, you know, we might consider to be the ones that we would turn to. They are not considered to be onside. And actually by the point that we're talking about, I was working independently because the situation in Sri Lanka, especially at that point was there was such a huge amount of corruption in the government that so much of the funding that came through was being absorbed by the government and not getting to the places that it needed to be.
Jane (
00:29:30
):
And so I got fairly disillusioned with that kind of mode of operating by that point. And me and two others decided, you know, what the it's so possible in these to create a huge amount of change. It's so little resource. And so even if we were to raise like 10,000, $20,000 in going with the strategic understanding that we had, and to just look at a really small portion of people and go, okay, let's focus on you and getting you well, what can we do here? So that's what we decided. We looked around for the place that we could affect the most change. And that's where we got to the door. The person that I was with at the time he was a photographer. We used a lot of his photos of the, of the workout journalistically, and also just to raise money basically.
Jane (
00:30:18
):
And we had just all sorts of things raised, right. But it was one of the first times where I had fatigue of fund raising where you're in the middle of like a depth zone, no, like places where people are just seriously suffering and, and you, you're trying to give that level of to really make people understand what it's like, you know, but like you or me, who's sitting here in California, I'm in New Zealand when we hear that we get it, but we don't get it. Like in the desperation, the fundraising that's so exhausting where you're like, please, like, is there anything? And so that was, there was, that was a healing part of it as well. But to get back to your questions, I've kind of got a little bit off point. It's so the big fear was that there was a second center.
Jane (
00:31:10
):
So we were staying in a hotel on the foreshore and it was pretty damaged. There was a lot of, as you can imagine, there was a lot of damage along the shoreline. And we had took, took driver called Aroona, who is amazing. He was he would transport us every day. He had this really lovely wife and and children, and they lived in the mountains, which was obviously away from away from where it was that we were. And there's so much like crying Wolf of tsunami that you start to tune it out. It's like, ah, you know, yeah, of course there's going to be another tsunami today. That's what everyone's saying every day. And so you get kind of like desensitized this idea of a tsunami coming. But Hey, like zoomed in at like 2:00 AM and was bashing on the door saying, no, no, no, Madam tsunamis and only met him, met him.
Jane (
00:31:58
):
And apparently there was this second tsunami warning that had comes. So I had to like scoop up all my stuff and he picked me up and Whizzed me back into the jungle essentially where they lived. And I remember I just, I was so tired at this point and it was so hot that I was in that completely just nonsensical stage where I'm like, maybe a tsunami would be the best thing right now. It's like, I just want to sleep. So his wife gave me this what I can only describe as very Christian, very colonial night gown that was like right up to my chin and came down to like, as far down the hands, as you could possibly imagine buttoned all the way down to the floor. So very, very you know, lady like and proper, and they sacrifice their bed, which I actually was just this, I feel it's, you know, first world problems, it was so hot and like the room was so stuffy and then you have the mosquito net on top, and then you have my, my, like Christian deeply Christian ground on that.
Jane (
00:33:06
):
I thought I was just going to actually pass out. So I had like a little internal tantrum and went and sat on this plastic chair in the middle of the jungle, in my like little nightie and was just swatting mosquitoes. And like just having like swearing and like sweating mosquitoes. And anyway, so the, the big thing with that gets us to the passport and the gaffer tape is that the knowledge that we had sort of like a fairly updated knowledge of tsunamis and what happens, what, what commonly gets people is not the actual way by itself, but the speed of the wave, meaning that when the water comes in, even if it's only say a few inches deep, it's coming at you, the speed of a jumbo jet and it knocks people off their feet. And then it sucks them back into the water, which is how a lot of people get taken back out if they're just on the fall, on the shoreline.
Jane (
00:33:56
):
So people get really caught off guard because they feel like they're really far away, but even really small amounts of water, it's the speed that actually gets them rather than the wave in the first instance. So we gaffer taped our passports to our chest because that's really the only way of ensuring that you can, you can have your documents with you in the event that you get swept out or something happens where you, you kind of like lose consciousness or something. And then you have a game plan, which is usually to scale a coconut tree or something, similarly ludicrous on reflection. So yeah, we just went through that protocol of like, okay, we'll step our step, our passport to us. And and and that's where I was in the middle of the jungle in my little borrowed nightie. I'm like little house on the Prairie, on my plastic chair, just trying to deal with as many mosquitoes as I could at that point.
Warwick (
00:34:54
):
That's quite the story. Okay. So all that came from asking you about what your biggest value, wasn't, how it helped you. So you got another question here and this one might no bet onto this one, but the question is what's the most worthwhile thing you've put your time into or something you've done that changed the course of your life. We might've even partly covered part of this.
Jane (
00:35:22
):
Yeah. You know, I think one of the most worthwhile things that you can put your time into is to really understanding yourself and the, I know that seems very glib and kind of a little bit idealistic, but I would say the game changer for me of late as well, but also cumulatively leading up to this point has been really taking the time to try and understand how I tick and also how our nervous system functions that has been such a game changer for me. And when I really understood that it's really empowering because you, you start to understand how, what your body is doing to keep you safe and what your body is doing in response to different things that are coming your way. And it's very easy to get into this mode of operating. And I certainly see it all the time.
Jane (
00:36:17
):
I'm thinking that there's something wrong with you, you know, like, what's wrong with me? Why do I keep doing this? Or why did this happen? Or or, you know, I, I know that I want this thing to happen. And yet this is all the time where I seem to take myself, why does that happen? And so when you can understand more about that side of things you can liberate yourself from this idea that you're somehow a dysfunctional model and start to work with better understandings that allow you to move in a direction. And I wouldn't say move in an easier direction because I don't necessarily think that having that kind of knowledge makes things easier as such, but it certainly makes you more aware and it certainly makes you more alive and it certainly makes you more in life. And being in life isn't necessarily the easy option. But it's the best one. So for me, that's that has been probably the most profound piece. And I think just of late, I love to see where it takes me, but just of late, I've had so much clarity around that and I can see how all the different little pieces coming up to this point help to facilitate a really good understanding of of those elements. Yeah.
Warwick (
00:37:33
):
I love what you said in there about you, you get to the point where you understand this, that there's not something wrong with you. And, and I think like for me personally, you know, cause we all have that. What do you call that? Itty bitty shitty committee? And I think some of us have it so much, we don't even know we have one, you know, it's not like we, you have the good guy and then the shitty guy shows up. If you only have a shitty guy, you're going to contrast, you're going to black and white. You can't go, this is, Oh, I know who's talking now, if you only have that one. And I think along with that, I think along with that comes a lot of, you know, self judgment about who you are and then who you think you are. And then when you start to understand what you were talking about, understand why you are the way you are and the way you are, is perfectly normal for are that what's happened to you or how your nervous system is wired because of what's happened to you or even how your nervous system is working because of what, what chemicals you have in your brain at the time, you know, like all that stuff like it, because you know, I'm going to be, you probably know I'm a big fan of Bernay Brown, which he talks about, you know, like the difference between guilt and shame and being able to reframe things as they come up.
Warwick (
00:39:05
):
And, you know, I think you've been on the journey a whole lot longer than me, but just starting on a slight, like you said, it's not easy. It's not easier, but it's better.
Jane (
00:39:18
):
Yeah, it is. And it also just allows me, or has allowed me to have so much compassion for myself and for other people. And also this incredible sense of wonderment, I think in that, but like the stories that I get through my work just blow me away. I think, how does someone survive that, you know, like here I am, I'm, I'm working with horses, I'm working with writers. The stories I get are so far beyond that, you know, like we're talking about childhood trauma, abuse, different things that go on in life where I think like the, to hold the email, even, you know, like in terms of like hold space for the email, it takes a lot, let alone holding space for something like that in someone's life. And so what I've really understood is that all of these situations or, or learnings or understandings, I guess that we might think of as not ideal, but you that like shut down be that the flight or fight response, be that freezing up, like what a gift that is that we are able to navigate situations in life, that we don't have the resources at the time to be able to hold and to have somewhere, to go, to be able to survive that, you know, like what an amazing blessing that is, that we are able to do that.
Jane (
00:40:38
):
And what an incredible safety mechanism that is of the body to actually decide to keep you safe in that way. Do you know what I mean? Like it's such, it is a beautiful thing. It really is a beautiful thing. And even like something like where I know that the way that I've had relationship with food in the past, for instance, I've had a very, has been something that I've beaten myself up again. And again, that was in my early twenties and now I think, wow, I can see why that happened or I can see why I responded in the way that I did, because that was my body's best attempt to keep me safe. And so if I approach my work and my life from that angle, I'm like, wow, this is this survival mechanism that we have is such a gift. But the, the, the transformation is that we just don't want to stay stuck there. You know? So we needed that. We absolutely needed that. And we're grateful for that. But now we recognize as a place that we can move beyond that. And that's where we start to soften the edges of our resistance and, and flow in, in different ways.
Warwick (
00:41:45
):
You just changed my life. Right. Then I've never thought of it that way. I've never thought of, since I've discovered that I'm, you know, been shut down forever, I have never looked at it like, wow. So glad I had that. Yeah.
Jane (
00:42:05
):
So glad you had that. What a clever body, you know, like what a clever body was like, you know, a little worried or big work. This is too much for him. Where are we going to take him? What can we do right now to keep him safe? Let's just make it feel less, you know, or let's just distract him or let's do something, let's do something. And so if you can just think this has been, it's a real being very transformative for me in thinking that you're, you're never trying to work against yourself. Not ever, not even if it feels like you are, there is always a higher purpose to your behavior and that unconscious driver there that is always working in what it perceives to be your benefit. Sometimes it's not your benefit in terms of what is happening in the present moment.
Jane (
00:42:52
):
But that is only because the information that your brain or system has, has not been updated as soon as you can update that information and go, actually we recognize you're going into this default place. And we all have default places that we go to when we're under some kind of stress, but what if we can actually move in this way that I call embodied discernment, which is like, huh, I recognize that I'm dancing this line. And there's this decision that I have to make between honoring what it is that's presenting and perhaps retreating or recognizing that this is a habitual response of my system in response to stress. So how is it that I can just dive underneath or move horizontally or shift around it so that I can create a different experience in this same situation without overwhelming myself and feeling like I need to retreat or withdraw to a place that feels familiar and feel safe, but isn't necessarily in my best interest.
Warwick (
00:43:53
):
Well, yeah. You know, people that have listened to me a bit know that I'm very fond of the, the, the saying about you know, when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. And I just had a, I just had a sliding door moment you know, Bruce Willis sixth sense moment right then to where I have never thought of it as, since I've, since I've identified it, I've never thought it, but as my friend,
Jane (
00:44:25
):
Totally, your friend that was like scooping you up.Yeah. And it's the same for our horses. It feels like that is the safest option. Right. This is the safest option. If I, if they've been in an abusive situation and abusive can just be unintentional, you know, human relationship,
Warwick (
00:44:49
):
You don't have to be.
Jane (
00:44:54
):
So it's I mean, I, I think you just have to thank those were the resources that you had and you use them and they got you through, and that's a beautiful thing. And so now I say, that's honestly the position I come from and it's switched everything around. I have, when I think of it like that, I have nothing but compassion.
Warwick (
00:45:12
):
Wow. Yeah. I just, that just totally changes the story. I've been telling myself who thought I was going to get in therapist that am I really, I'm having a moment here. Like, I'm like, well, we'll never be the same again. And I recorded it.
Jane (
00:45:38
):
I have a renewed appreciation for myself since I've started thinking that way. And, and for, even for my body and for everything, it's like, wow, what a great job you've done to get you here. That was tough. You know, there were some really tough stuff and, and what a great job you've done. And I think that all our, all our default mechanisms, you know, and for our horses as well, this is what you're teaching as well. It's that in order to maintain your window of presence, where you're, you don't abandon yourself, you know, in order to feel like you don't need to abandon yourself, your resources have to outweigh your stressors. You have to feel like the energy doesn't get, isn't going to get bigger than your body. So when you, when, when the energy feels like it gets bigger than your body, that's where it overwhelms you.
Jane (
00:46:24
):
Right. That's where we feel like it's gone beyond us and we no longer have choice or control about how it is. We're going to direct the flow of that. But when we're able to recognize and sensitize ourselves on a sensation level, on an activation level to go, huh, I recognize that like, I'm feeling something here and, and I can either stay with that because I have the capacity and the training, if you like to be able to hold it, or I can draw on something to make sure that I don't feel the need to go to this place that I've always been to, because now I'm in a different place. It's it's an invitation, it's an, Oh, it's a constant invitation to have a corrective emotional experience. And that's the same thing that you're doing with your horses. It's like, here it is here.
Jane (
00:47:08
):
I can see him teetering on the edge. You know, like when you're working with a horse that has a habitual say, like a flight response where you can, you can see they're thinking about it or they're that when you start working with them, there's that tendency to just default straight into it. And then maybe after a session or two, you can see that there's just that moment and you might still lose them, but there was a slight pause before lost them. And that's where you know, that you can start to wiggle room. So that's where, where you know, that you're dancing on the edge of that window of presence. And if you can just insert some resources in there, then they don't feel the need to kind of go to that place. They can stay, stay with you. Yeah. So I probably went off track, but
Warwick (
00:47:49
):
I'm glad you went off track because I think that just changed my life. I'm so glad. Okay. Now, one other question here. Okay. I'm going to skip one question. Cause I think this one might be able to tie in with what you were just talking about or give you a bit of a segue into that. The question is, what do you feel is the most, what do you feel is the worst advice given in your profession or the, the advice that it's quite common that you think it's not good advice?
Jane (
00:48:27
):
So for me, I I'm, I'm, I'm gonna take this from a slightly different angle and not frame it as advice, but more just a piece that I see people missing out quite commonly. And I think that the blessing that I have that I feel is a part of my work is that I'm also fascinated by horses as much as humans in terms of behaviors. And in terms of understanding how I can be a better horse person. And I see the relationship between my nervous system and my forces nervous system. And that's what gets me interested in work like yours. You know, that's what sought me to find out work like yours. And so from my point of view, we have we have to take care of the horse piece, you know, like in order to be a empathetic rider in order to feel confident or in order to be able to hold a sense of your own integrity in the saddle and on the ground, we, we have to be in relationship with a partner who is doing similar work or we're doing similar work together with and the, what is quite common in in my field of work.
Jane (
00:49:42
):
And there aren't that many people doing what I'm doing. So it's kind of like a, it's sort of like, you know, and also I'm not perfect. So I'm not gonna pretend that like, I'll hear it here. It is. I'm the Holy grail over here. But what I recognize is that I get, I work a lot with people who identify with feeling anxious and they have created quite a strong identity around that. There's a stranglehold almost around that idea of being an anxious person. And when you have that identity over a period of time, what happens is you start to lose the nuance. You start to lose the understanding of your own internal walkie talkie system or your own internal GPS system. That's telling you that there is something on the outside that you need to pay attention to. That's not quite right. And so when you lose ability to check in with that, you start to think that everything is your problem, that the anxiety, everything is something that needs to be fixed on your end. And what I want people to be able to discern is that there are three pieces in the equation. There is you, there is your horse. And then there is the combination of you both. And it's all of those elements need to be taken into consideration in order for those pieces to be you know, integrated and transformative, I guess. And so the
Jane (
00:51:06
):
Similar lines of work that really make me cringe and kind of like clench my bum together is when the horse piece isn't being taken care of and you see clearly tense, unhappy horses, and that, isn't kind of that isn't a part of the discussion. That's not a part of the conversation in creating partnership, in creating confidence in creating. I think it's probably just the flip side of what you're talking about. Like you're dealing with the horses, but of course it's, the rider is the handler or the writer is you can't remove that from the equation. It's the same for me. It's like, I, I can't make you a confident, I can't make you feel good about getting onto a horse or creating a partnership if there's something clearly wrong in that partnership from the horse side, you know, because your body is always going to the survival and safety of your body is always going to be prioritized.
Jane (
00:52:00
):
That's an intrinsic factor that we cannot override and nor should we. So I think that the parts that are, yeah, the cringy parts is where I see someone on like this big, powerful horse that's like breathing fire. And like, when they're like, just keep going, look up, you know, like, and, and all these instructions are going on. They're just like, Oh, that is a train wreck waiting to happen. And that's where I yeah, I kind of err on the side of caution, I guess I go from, I go from a completely different angle.
Warwick (
00:52:30
):
Yeah. That's a bit cringe-worthy for me too, because for me personally, I always have told people that, you know, when you have knowledge, you have confidence. I can give people confidence through like say, when you're doing groundwork with your horse, you find things, things pop up where your horse reacts to things. And then over a period of time, they no longer react to those things. So, you know, so, you know, they're not going to react to similar things. And then, you know, it's very step by step. By the time you get under saddle, the whole, should they relax? You should have taken care of all sorts of stuff. And the confidence that I tend to give people is the confidence in knowing the horse taken care of. But then there's the bit I don't address, which is why I refer everybody to Jane pike is because you can actually help the people. But I do agree with you, you can't help the person and let them keep riding 17, two hand warm blood that, you know, spooks at every leaf within 300 miles of there. And because there's nothing to prop up, you know, if you give them confidence on the ground, by the time they get there, there's nothing to progress.
Jane (
00:53:40
):
Yeah. I think confidence is such an interesting word. I, I'm kind of going to shoot myself in the foot here because my whole business is called confident rider, but I actually stopped using the word confidence as much because I think it's such a dynamic experience. And we have this idea of confidence as being like we've lost confidence, or we are confident. Like it's like we're in these two camps and it, it doesn't work like that. In my experience, it's like on any given day, what affects your ability to be present and they responsive, which is actually what we want is going to be affected by a variety of different elements and the same for our horses. And so where I really like to start from and the words that I've been using a lot with enjoy right, is integrity and dignity. It's like, can I invite a sense of dignity and integrity into the body?
Jane (
00:54:30
):
And what does it feel like to hold those two elements in my body? And for the most part, I find those two things are much more accessible than confidence because we have a very fixed idea about what confidence means. And if we feel like we're not that we, we kind of pull it polarizes us. Whereas if we, we can understand that if I have my own dignity, if I've got some integrity, I can hold that. And then if I'm in that space, then at least I've resourced myself to consider how it is I feel and how is it that I want to respond. And I guess those are the things I always want to preserve in my horses as well. Like preserve their sense of dignity and integrity in the work that I do. And then that flows through to a feeling of confidence that your resource to be able to handle what might come your way.
Warwick (
00:55:17
):
So your business is called confident rider, but you said you've changed. You're changing some of the verbiage you use. And I find I'm doing exactly the same thing, like words that I used to use. I don't like that word anymore. Not that that's a bad word at all. Just doesn't fully encapsulate. You know, people tend to have a sort of very
Jane (
00:55:42
):
Semantic response, right? Like people have a response to the words I've been playing. I've been playing with this a lot because we do, we've been doing some work around what it means to have a adjustable boundary or like a boundary that's kind of appropriately responsive to what it is that's going on. And how does that show up in your body and how does that energetic projection affect how you're working with your horses? And and just using words is really interesting. Like I've been asking people, what does it mean? What does responsibility mean to you? And then does it feel heavy or does it feel light? So if you think about responsibility, does it sit in the red, which is like, Oh God, or does it sit in the expensive place? And it's really interesting what people come back with. And I think the same with confidence, like all of the words we use have a somatic resonance that's like for me, power for instance is a, is a positive word.
Jane (
00:56:32
):
It's like, huh, I kind of connect to my backbone when I use power. But if I was to say power to someone who'd been dominated, they see that as a very hostile word. And so it's, you can kind of understand people's associations and it can be a limitation in teaching. I think even if you're not able to recognize how someone is responding unconsciously, so it's not necessarily, but sort of like in their body to the word. And so one way I've discovered, or I've been playing with of making sure that we're kind of on the same page is if I feel like the conversation's not really jelling and we're talking about something which I think is relevant, I'll be like, what does that word mean to you? Like, what does it feel like when I say that word? And if they're like, Oh, it means this I'm like, Oh, cause actually what I'm meaning is this. And then there'll be like, Oh right. So we kind of get to a different place with that.
Warwick (
00:57:25
):
You know, I think that's really good that you asked that because I, and this is some personal experience. Some people who are people pleasers will not understand what you're saying and let you keep checking on. And we had a a lady of it here yesterday. Actually she's a lady Robyn's been working with that does different sort of workshops and stuff. And she was going to show us some stuff and she has some figures of speech, you know, she's a, she's a therapist. So she has a bit of a therapist speech. And in the past I would have just nodded and just been confused all day and right, right at the start of it, I said, can you just stop for a second? I, I understand every one of those words, but when they go in a sense, it's like duct, I don't, it doesn't. And I did that quite a bit for a couple of hours yesterday. And at the end she said, you know, thanks for, for actually asking it. And I said to her, you know what, not that many years ago, I probably wouldn't have done. I probably would have just said, I can't ask questions. I, you know, I'm a people pleaser. I don't want to interrupt whatever, you know, and, and it was, yeah, it was, that was covered. If you want to give it a good word that was coming in, pairing feeling. Yeah,
Jane (
00:58:41
):
Yeah, yeah. Really impairing it's very cool. See, isn't it moving into your own agency and like, have you using your voices as a part of that?
Warwick (
00:58:54
):
Yeah. That's a good word for it. So what I was getting at here, a minute ago was so you've changed. You haven't changed the name of your business. It's called comfort. Right. But that, that word doesn't quite sit quite right with anymore. Was there, can you think of a turning point? Did you have it like, cause you, cause looking at your stuff, like your old stuff was great and your new stuff is off the charts. It's amazing. And it's like, you've turned a corner. Like you've, you've, you've, you've, you've seen it with a different set of eyes or something. Is it just been a gradual thing or you can just one day you wait.
Jane (
00:59:35
):
Yeah. So I think I've I, it, there was a lag time where my own personal experience had to catch up with what it was that I was teaching and also what it is I'm happy to teach in that. My teaching is very much like what I live and how I feel about things. That's not I'm not parroting words. Like I really want to feel, have a felt experience of what it is that I'm teaching. And I, and I, I also am not a person that's addicted to adrenaline. I'm not a writer that's addicted to adrenaline. I like to tick the boxes. I like to have a happy horse when I get on. I'm not interested in writing something. That's, you know, kind of fire, breathing dragon. That's not my idea of a good time. And so I really empathize a lot from, from that angle as well with people that have struggles with confidence and anxiety issues on the ground and in the saddle as well.
Jane (
01:00:28
):
But, and that's not just the only piece, but I guess for me, like the last 12 months, even the last 18 months, I could see that I could only get someone so far or I could get my understandings got so far and then I was kind of stumped. And I've been really blessed to have people on my, the sort of work part of my journey if you like, although I don't really see it as work, but you know, that have been with me for a long time. And so I know them really well. And yet some of these same stuck points are coming up again and again, and I'm like, I know what is happening. Like why theoretically, this shouldn't be an issue anymore. And yet it still isn't. Yeah, yeah. Clients and also within myself with clients as well. So the thing that, I guess I've always that I always like to do is that I don't really stop it.
Jane (
01:01:18
):
I'm not like, well, it must be their problem. I'm like, huh, what is it that I am teaching? Or like, what, how is it that my knowledge gets to this point? How can I kind of get beyond that? So I think that my biggest advantage, and also probably limitations that I'm constantly like learning and studying courses and enrolled in something and I'm just keeping on going. And so when I went into the more sematic work and you know, embodied work and that side of things, I was like, it's the body piece that I'm missing out. I'm in the mind and I've got the mind, but it's the body piece. This is happening on a physical level. And it's not something that the mind is trying to do or not do. It's just that when you're in a certain place in your nervous system, you're not at, you don't actually have a choice as such about what it is that you feel.
Jane (
01:02:04
):
This is like an unconscious neck aneurysm that's moving beneath the surface. And so it wasn't that I wasn't addressing that side of things. It was just that the 80% of what I was looking at was really talking about directing our conscious mind and thoughts. And so when it came to situations where people's capacity was tested in terms of like let me backtrack a little bit. So when we are in the midst of stress, our capacity is what our capacity is, what dictates, how much of that we can hold in our system default before we default to one of these survival responses that for the most part has already been predetermined. So in adults, most of us have undergone a series of stressors in our life. And we will recognize that we have these default responses. So some of us might freeze up.
Jane (
01:03:00
):
Some of us might shut down, so on and so forth. And so what, what takes us to that place is determined by a certain amount of activation in the system, if you like, if you think about it that way. And so what I was seeing was that people were kind of shutting down or going into these default responses. And I was asking them to think their way out of that space. Right. And you can't think your way out of that space because I, when you're in that place, you're the part of your brain, the higher wisdom part of your brain is not online. Also you're genuinely dealing with what can be quite overwhelming energies in the system that come back that are seemingly out of context with what it is that's going on. And we hear about this a lot. And and so that's where I was like, okay, I have to work it in.
Jane (
01:03:52
):
And then I had, like, one of the experiences was at your clinic. And another time in another writing situation where I had a little bit of a meltdown and for me it was horrendous. It was like on a ego level, it was really embarrassing and humiliating, and I felt a huge amount of shame around it. So I remember at your clinic, if I can talk about a little bit, is that all right to talk about? Yeah. Yeah. So I just had my two young horses. This has nothing to do with work. This is just my experience. I've got my two young horses there and they're feeling pretty like full of beans if you like. And I took out a long, short story short didn't feel like I was in a place where I could maintain my center. And there was a war going on inside me where on one level I knew all of the things on a mental level of like what to do, how to think myself way out of it. And on a physical level, I was like completely overwhelmed by this energy, this kind of activation, which I know actually from which I understand now is coming from sort of past stressors. And I would be able to respond differently. Now, ironically, that that experience was really fantastic for me because I was Like, I can see, yeah.
Jane (
01:05:12
):
That these tools aren't enough because I know the tools and they're not enough. And so what that, it's not that they're not good, but in this situation, they're not right for what this context requires. And so it really took me to another level of like integrating what it was that I'd learned really going down the rabbit hole in a really big way, and then coming out the other side and really feeling different and being different and being different as a horse person as well. Like I really gone to a whole new stage where I know that I'm different and my, and my response will be different now. And I feel that not just think that, like, I, I, I know it, if that makes sense. And so what that sort of required me to do was completely redo everything.
Jane (
01:05:59
):
Because I just spent like so many years putting all of this content together. And part of me, the little power in my mind was like, maybe you could just add it in. Maybe you could just like patchwork it together. And like the heart piece was like, Nope, start again. You need to do it from the top. So I've moved it all aside. I've been redoing all of the content and it's not that the old quote, unstuck quote stuff isn't there. It's just that I've woven it in, in a way that's much more sematic, much more nervous system oriented. And
Warwick (
01:06:30
):
You know, it's pretty much up to where there's what I used to do, which worked for the most part. It's kind of like what you're talking about to work for the most, for the most part said, worked some horses. Yeah,
Jane (
01:06:45
):
Exactly. Right.
Warwick (
01:06:47
):
We work with, and now looking back, like there's nothing wrong with it for the most part. It's good. But I know if it's, it's almost like the new stuff is overlaid over the top of that. And I think that's what, that's exactly what you're suggesting too. Yeah.
Jane (
01:07:00
):
It's starting from a different place. It's it's actually so the older stuff, the mind based stuff is now more of a refinement. I think where we've got we're, we've created this kind of container of the body and the nervous system where we feel safe to actually be able to increase our level of activation. Because generally what happens is that we've coupled together any kind of discomfort or feeling of activation in the body with a feeling like we're under threat. And so what happens is if someone feels a little bit of discomfort or a little bit of nerves, or a little bit of something, something which creates activation in the system, there's an emotional response, which is, I am really afraid. I am really under threat right now. That's what it feels like you're going to die. That's what it feels like now, logically, you know, that's not the case that the feeling is different. It's what tells you different. So it's pulling those two things apart and allowing you to actually create that intentional pause in there so that they're not so tightly coupled together, and to be able to hold a bigger amount of activation in the system. And so it's so liberating. It really is because I feel like now I've actually like, I'm onto something. Okay. It's working. It really works.
Warwick (
01:08:17
):
I'm kind of the same thing with the stuff I've been doing with the horses. And, you know, in one of the earlier podcasts, I mentioned polyvagal theory. And when I started to study a little bit about polyvagal theory, it's like, Oh, okay. Now I know why it works. What I've been doing works. And actually, I probably know how to do it even better now, now that know what works. I know why it works. I know, I know the important part. I know now the important part is, is more clear to me and it's, for me, it's the attunement part of it. Yeah. And then, Oh, so that's, I need to do more of that in a lot of 18 years, I started, I've been doing a lot of different things, but they all seem to help all these new stuff seems to help when you get just the being seen being heard, then it kind of takes it back to her almost to another level. I dunno. It's yeah. I'm very I'm excited about the stuff I'm doing now. Cause it's like, Oh, I've just topped the Hill and I can see another whole Valley in front of
Jane (
01:09:23
):
Yeah, yeah. So much, so, so much. So there's actually two things that come to mind when you say that, which is, I've had a couple of people ask me like, Oh why not just leave the old stuff? And then just add, you know, like add the new stuff. And it was like, it wasn't even a choice for me. It's like, there's once I know once I see a different way, I'm so dissatisfied with that. Like, I don't want that there because that's like, that's not, it's out of alignment then with what it is that where it is that I'm at and what it is that I'm teaching. And the, so I like to sort of weave it in differently. And the second part that the, the unexpected side effect that I didn't recognize is that I actually have to be careful that sometimes it works too well and it overwhelms people.
Jane (
01:10:15
):
And this is where I have to tread carefully in that at the start of the course, I say, you have to go through this material at the speed of a slow flying bird, because this is not a mind decision. This is a body based decision. Your, the, the, the ability to increase your capacity is something that is led by your body. It's not led by your mind and what commonly or what I found happened. I'm a little bit not with everyone is that people burn through cause they want to tick it off and they want to watch the video and they want to do the thing and they want to get that done and next, and I've done that. I'm on to the third one already. And off we go, and then they're like, Whoa, I'm completely overwhelmed. Like, I've just got, I've done this basic exercise and I've just shut down.
Jane (
01:11:01
):
Or I find myself needing to go to sleep or I've like, I feel really heavy. And it's, it's interesting when you drop in and work at the level of the nervous system, how you start to activate of those default patterns. And then you're asked to kind of step into them in a different way. And it's not necessarily easy all the time. And, and it's also what I'm constantly asking people to do, which is where I think you're at with the horses as well as like, we have to start to, to re sensitize ourselves to notice when our body is telling us that it's enough. And that can be, Oh, or I'm like looking away from the computer, or I'm just going to pick up my phone when that tutorial is playing. And like, your system is telling you that it's enough. Right. But we, like, we keep going and we keep going until, because we want to get it done. And we want to maybe, you know, only sign up for a month and do all the videos sort of thing. And so it's really, it's sort of, it is a counterintuitive or counter cultural. Maybe that's a better one counter cultural approach in that you can't think your way into it. You can't read all the things and know it. It's like you practice it in your body determines when you've got it. And I think that's the difference. Yeah.
Warwick (
01:12:15
):
Yeah. I think that's like, you know, the horses now, it's, it's, it's just, once you really start looking for that, they give you so much information about threshold that you didn't even know they were there. Cause they're just so forgiving, as far as they'll put up with us, blundering around and, you know, missing all the signs and then you're going up on rubbing around yet. But if you really can take notice of the, the, the little things, you know, we had filly here the other one, you know, so I did, I did some work with her when she was born. You know, when she would not, when she was born, but you know, she was weanling on her mother. Then it's a year later and I had some stuff, all the, the work you do leading up to writing one, I didn't write it, but I did all this after the saddling and having it be good with the silent, have me a good above her.
Warwick (
01:13:07
):
And the next step you would be able to do is ride her. And I had her full sister the year before that I did all this stuff with me and she was a cow, like what a nasty you like that? That's her kind of personality type is to be argumentative. If you want to give her an argument. And the other one I went, I just noticed the second one, I noticed so much little stuff. And I know I did less, a lot sooner than I did. And she was completely different, but like the initial handling was like, this is the same as the other one. Like that, would you, you wouldn't be asking they're still on their mother. And they would be rare enough and snapping or, or just pinning their ears really bad. Like, like usually things that you have to be, do some stupid stuff for the horse to get them, to show you those sorts of things like EAP, snapping, that sort of, but she was like that with a mother, like she'd get frustrated and run over and just kick a mother in the belly with both on feet.
Warwick (
01:14:11
):
And the mother was kind of a bit crippled, so couldn't do any better anyway. But the story here is they would have been the same. That's the one, the second he would have been argumentative and all that sort of stuff, but I just noticed smaller and smaller things and had, and was less judgmental about things I did see. And what a difference. Like she, she's a, she's going to be a nice horse. And I think the other one's always going to be argumentative because I, I think I taught her how to argue in the first place. And when I, when I had that one, what I was doing was pretty good. You know what I mean? So she's an outlier sort of a horse. So it's kinda like you were saying what you used to do at work. Good. Except in some situations what I used to do and what good expected some horses. And it was just, just like, because I had to, you know, two full sisters and both had the same personality types, like through almost the same horse and two totally different outcomes. Even with the fact that what I used to do was pretty good. Yeah. You know what I mean? On the whole like, Oh, and it's, yeah. It's just my it's so exciting because it's like, wow, what else is possible? You know what,
Jane (
01:15:26
):
Yeah, I know. I get really excited about it too. I have to be, I have to, that's why I talk so much, but I think it's, it's, it's really similar. It's kind of like starting to tune into your own calming signals. And a lot of us have very like black and white understandings of what we're feeling, you know, like, and it's only, we only we've gone to this place. We don't recognize the trajectory towards that place. And that's where we want to kind of start to understand if we're trying to avoid this destination for want of a better word. There's a whole road that leads to that place that we've tuned out from on a body-based level, that'll give us indications or places that we can pause and resource ourselves to be able to stay much more centered and grounded without feeling like we need to kind of continually go outside our zone.
Jane (
01:16:11
):
And I think something that I'm really passionate about and that I'm telling people is like the work that we do together. It's not about making you priming you to fit in with situations that don't work for you. It's actually, the evolution is actually recognizing when something's not working for you and being able to make a different choice or to stop something can, you know, disengage it or at a point before it gets too much that rather than kind of keeping on pushing through and kind of making you, you this ultimate warrior. And I think that's what you do with the horses where it's like, how do you dance that threshold between like honoring who it is you are and what it is that you're feeling and what it is that's showing up and still walking that growth edge, you know, like that, that dance is really one that you only know sometimes when you get it wrong.
Warwick (
01:17:04
):
Oh, I think initially with horses, it's very similar to like, you don't know the thresholds there until you're across it. And then that was, that was too much, okay. This is totally different than what I thought it was going to be. And then you, you just adjust it and off you go. So I think, I think some people can maybe cross a threshold with a host and then beat themselves up because they did it, especially I think, especially people and, you know, we've all done this, especially people for years, for years who crossed our, and even though they were crossing them and now they become aware of them. Now they're too hyper aware of them. And if they realize when they crossed the threshold and they realized, well, I shouldn't have done that, but instead of going, okay, I'll do it differently. They want to go, Oh, you've just done a terrible thing, your customer, you know what I mean? Cause I did it on my group bid and it's just, I think when you get new knowledge of something, it's the crooked Downing effect, you know, he can, you know, they just, and you're an expert all of a sudden, you know?
Jane (
01:18:02
):
Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's I know a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing sometimes isn't it? You're like, I want to know all the things.
Warwick (
01:18:11
):
Yeah. I remember when I first came to America, the trainer I've worked for you know, I could, I could ride horses pretty good and stuff like that. I didn't know how to train, but you know, if you told me to put my hand in a certain place, I could put it there. I could put my leg there at any speed. So it wasn't a big deal. And I thought I was going to right. And he might've gone away to a whole show or something I forget. But one day he said to me, he says, you're at the point right now, you know, just enough to be dangerous because I'd learned some stuff like, yeah, I know everything now. So I might have to gung-ho training these horses, I'm going to train these officers and you know what? You don't know enough. You're not that gung ho. So you kind of just chip away at it. But I was, I knew it just enough to be done. I knew, I knew just enough to not know that I didn't know anything and knowledge and yeah, it took a while for me to, to figure out what he meant when he said that I knew just enough to be dangerous, but I think we all go through that.
Jane (
01:19:06
):
Yeah. It's just part of it. Isn't it like, it's kind of, you have to go through almost like rites of passage, I think in the learning process and and just keep going that's the, the key is just keep going. You've just got to keep on with it.
Warwick (
01:19:21
):
Yeah. You know, those questions I said, I was outlining, they will, you know, they're kind of inspired by Tim Ferriss, his book, tribe of mentors. And one of the things he asked people is, do you have a favorite book that you recommend to people? You know, and the, in the book, he's got a list of books that were recommended by quite a few people. And one of them is mastery by George Leonard. And it's a book I talk about quite a bit, but it's, it's one of those books that tells you that that's perfectly normal. You know, it talks about the plateaus. So you learn something, you wait outside and you go have an upward surge and then it drops off a little bit. And then you're on this plateau, you get worse. And then you stuck on this plateau for a long time. And he says, what you have to understand, then if you're on that plateau for long enough, if you stick with it long enough, you'll gain the skills to have another upward search. And then you're a bit of a rep and then you're on another child and that's how you learn everything. And in that book, he says, you have to understand that you will spend most of your time on the platter. So you have to learn to love the plateau. You have to embrace the plateau and go, you know, chop, chop, wood, carry water, you know, just,
Jane (
01:20:34
):
Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. I think one of the blessings for me in my own learning and journey is that because I teach what I learn, I'm false, I'm forced to articulate what it is that I'm learning and then put it into experiential situations then. So it's only when you're doing that, that you realize actually, Oh, I really don't get that. Or I need to understand more about that. And I think if you don't have, if you're not kind of forced to regurgitate it in a way that not regurgitate it, you know what I mean? Like kind of express it in a way that puts it in action. It's easier to sort of stick with a concept and not actually action it, or really, really get it before you're, you're having to sort of teach it. So I feel lucky in that, in that way as well that I can kind of like experiment with myself and then I have willing participants enjoy that. It's like, yeah, let's do this. Let's go here
Warwick (
01:21:22
):
In an earlier podcast. I said that I spent 2017, you know, at the start of 2017, I had the, you know, the Mustang laid down at the kind of thing. And so I have an idea that it's not all about training, which up to that point in time was it was all a training situation. You know, it was always a teaching. Why shouldn't that alter behavior? And so I had this, okay. It's not that there's something there's, there's this other thing. I don't even know what it is. And I spent the whole year in front of people figuring it out. So I've mentioned the podcast before that it was a very humbling thing, but it's also, it's a great thing because I had to articulate it. And even to this day, like doing clinics, I I'll be explaining what's going on in front of me. And I will give myself a deeper meaning than I already had because explaining it.
Jane (
01:22:17
):
Yeah, same, same.
Warwick (
01:22:19
):
Yeah. The meetings, especially today I was driving around somewhere and I was listening to a podcast of Dave Asprey's, game changers book. And so he, that game changes book. He, he interviewed two or 300 game changing people and asked them three different. I think he asked him what three things do you find that were the most influential things for you? What three things would you recommend people do? And it's kind of the sum total of all that. And one of the chapters is about making your brain work better. And he's talking about he's talking about how he was like a program or something or other here in Silicon Valley. And he, he signed up for college to teach a college course on something, rather than it was basic before the internet was invented, he was teaching a college course on how to build the internet to a bunch of engineers.
Warwick (
01:23:19
):
So like, he's got, he's not talking to people. Don't know what they're talking about. He's talking to a bunch of engineers on how to build something that's not built yet. And he said, best learning experience because I had to explain it to people who can call bullshit basically while I was learning it. And he said, so if you still got reading things just about learning, how to speed, read and memorize things. And he said, read something, not with the idea that you want to learn. He said, read it with the idea that you could take that information and go and tell somebody, go teach it to him. And he says, your brain takes it in. He gave me a percentage, you know, like a hundred or 200% better or something, or 20 times better, whatever it was when you read it with the intention that you're going to go and tell somebody that thing that's really cool. That's exactly the same stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Jane (
01:24:13
):
I like that. Even just describing what I do, because it's changed so much lately, I'm like a blip, blah blah a blur. Like I find that I can't even have the words for something that I'm doing every day. Like the first question at the start, I'm like, what am I doing? What is this? And actually I'm teaching now,
Warwick (
01:24:29
):
What, what, what do you say? Like you're on a plane or something or other, and someone sits next to him. They go, Oh, what are you doing? I'm a sports psychologist. Okay. That's actually, I'll tell you what, that's a very, very good that gives them, that gives them the whole idea of what you do. And then there's that. And there's the minutiae of which part of sports psychology you end up. Yeah,
Jane (
01:24:49
):
Yeah, exactly. Did I think I told you this when I was coming, I think it was to the World Equestrian Games or maybe it was last year, but as I was coming through customs, I had to fill it in that, on the form. And so the guy that the customs officer, he started, he liked was staring at me really hot. And then he asked me you said, So what would you do if you
Jane (
01:25:10
):
Freeze up? And I was like, what? And I thought he was like, and he was a boxer. And he wanted some tips on like his next boxing fight. And I was like, I thought he was, he was like, there was, these were kind of like, you know, loaded questions for me to get through. And I was like, Oh, right. So I'm like, great. So here I am in like my 32nd spiel on how to get out of your performance anxiety in the boxing ring. Wow.
Warwick (
01:25:37
):
I not heard that story. That's very, very cool.
Jane (
01:25:40
):
I told you that. Yeah. I was really nervous. I remember being really nervous coming through that. It was, it was fine in the end.
Warwick (
01:25:48
):
That's amazing. So I've got to get to my last question I have for you, which is probably a bit more lighthearted. Hopefully it is. It is. What's an unusual habit that you have or something out of the ordinary that you really love.
Jane (
01:25:59
):
So I've started playing the ukulele.
Jane (
01:26:07
):
I love it. And do you know, especially what I love about it is that I haven't been, so obviously a beginner at something for a really long time, like, you know, some of the movement, you have body awareness. So even like the new movement things you do use to move in your body. It's like, I have these disconnects between where my hands are like to make a cord and my brain. And I'm like staring at my fingers and my fingers. Aren't doing what my brain is telling them to go. And it's the most magical thing to watch the progression of skill and competency in the body, because I just keep going and I keep trying to play this chord and they keep trying to play this chord. And there's, there's this one cord where you have to press the two bottom strings with one finger.
Jane (
01:26:55
):
And then the rest of the fingers kind of extend up. And it's a very unnatural position for the hand. And so every time I'm going through this particular song, I get there. And so I've been coming back and forth and back and forth. And it's really interesting. Cause some days my fingers just go there and I'm like, huh, I've got it. I've got it. And then the next day it'll be like, I'd never played it. And it's like, God damn it. Like, what is it? And so just giving, it's really curious to watch yourself on the level of a beginner again, and then to transfer that to, well, here I have like, I'm working with a young horse or I'm out here doing this thing. And even though it feels like I have this degree of competency in this area, this is a new pathway in my mind and body as well. And so I can watch my fingers on the, on the ukulele and understand what's going on here and sort of give yourself a little bit of Slack from that. But it's been, it's super fun. I love it.
Warwick (
01:27:47
):
You know, my son, Tyler plays the guitar and I remember one night I said, give me a, give me a quick lesson. Like I've never played a guitar. I've strummed one. But the business saying that they have never thought of that. And he showed me just a couple of things to do, like just a couple of notes. And I was the same thing, looking at my finger, like, go over, go over there, move. And then it wouldn't move. And so I messed with it for a little while, but then I said to Tom, I said, what's it, what's it feel like when you don't have to think about it and you think is just do it. And his face lit up and he goes, that's why you play. That's why you ride. It's like periods. It's like, like flying or
Jane (
01:28:38
):
Art. That's the art. I, I, I so I've been having lessons, like I'm pretty serious about it. I've been having lessons and my team, yeah, I'm into it. And my teacher has, she said she was talking about Tommy Emmanuel, you know, the guitarist, Tommy Emmanuel. And so when he was fighting
Warwick (
01:28:56
):
For Americans, Tommy Emmanuel is in Australian guitarist. I think you ranked it in one of the top 20 guitarists of all time. A lot of Americans haven't heard of him, but he's phenomenal,
Jane (
01:29:05
):
Totally looking up. So when Tommy Emmanuel was five, he was listening to songs and he didn't realize that different instruments were playing the different things. So he taught himself to play the role of all the different instruments on his guitar and his cord. His finger is like, he's got this incredible reach in his fingers because he's literally trained his fingers to be able to like take up these incredible width positions on the frets, on the strings to be able to be like the bass and the drums. And because there's a five-year-old, he didn't understand that wasn't just all the guitar, but that, that, that ignorance, if you like, was his complete, like, and sort of thinking outside the box is what allowed him to play, like basically an entire bands worth of music on the guitar. So I thought that was so cool.
Warwick (
01:29:58
):
Yeah. I almost call it innocence when you,
Jane (
01:30:01
):
Yeah. Sorry. That was a better word. Yeah. Much better word.
Warwick (
01:30:05
):
No culture to think a certain way yet. You know, you're not listening this condition. I got to say the Emanuel brothers play in a very small venue on not like I'm standing three feet from the stage sort of thing. And they're just right there at knee height sort of thing. And they did him and his brother did dual banjos on the, on the guitars and it was chasing each other around the stage. It was crazy, but I bet I'd probably I'd know. I wasn't ready to appreciate that then that he, last year, the year before my son Tyler and I went up to San Francisco to an old theater up there called the Warfield, you know, like very famous old theater there and got to go and see slash from guns and roses. And yeah. You know, it's not like on an app on speechless as another kind of get tough freak tall is into guitars on not, but when you've watched somebody of somebody reached that level of skill to where they just go off into whatever it is, you know, it doesn't matter what they do.
Warwick (
01:31:14
):
I could have been an opera singer. It could have been a bloke playing a cello, you know what I mean? It just happened slash plying. So Miles Kennedy was singing. I'm not going to Miles Kennedy is, but this guy can awhile. And yeah, it was just, it was a month. Like I can die now. I just got to say slash, cause it wasn't just slash it was slash two timeduring the night. He did 10 minute solo was like, this went off and went off and kept going off and like five minutes into it, everybody's on their feet clapping. Like that was that what we just saw was the coolest thing ever. But then it goes on for another minute and another two minutes and he just doesn't slow down and he's just in a, in a sun, you know. Have you ever read, have you ever read the rise of Superman?
Jane (
01:32:01
):
No, but I'm going to now
Warwick (
01:32:05
):
It's about it's by the same guy, that guy that wrote stealing fire, Steven Kotler it's about how extreme athletes these days can achieve things that wouldn't be possibly before. And I it's all about getting in that flow zone. And one of the guys, I think it's in that book, he talks to about a guy named Dean Potter and Dean Potter mentally, when you were here last, we were talking about free solo with Alex climbing. So Dean Potter was a good friend of Alex's. And so he's probably, you know, in the top 10 of the best rock climbers in the world. And in that they quoted him in that book is saying, I don't really like rocks. I climb because of the place I go to like rock and the rocks. It's not about the rocks. It's about the thing about, I think the thing about like rock climbing is you have to stay focused. Like you've, you've got to, you've got to be right there. And I think the higher the stakes, the more right there you gotta be. And that's what Dean Potter loved was. You're just right there, time slows down your, your vision becomes clear at your, you know, you can hear an Eagle, five miles away sort of thing. And everything just gets really right there. But I love that quote. I didn't even like rocks or something like that.
Warwick (
01:33:33
):
What about watches? Dice was not about the fact he was part of guns and roses. Who's part of when you're growing up, you know?
Jane (
01:33:45
):
Yeah, no, it's it's really cool. I, I love it. And I think I get also love it cause I can just pick it up and I can tinker with it and you know, I'm not in any danger. It's like, no, one's gonna, I'm not gonna hurt anyone with my bias. If I say the wrong thing, I, I can just tinker away on my, like all my strings and it's, it's really, I just find it really meditative actually. Yeah.
Warwick (
01:34:14
):
Yeah. I think, I think, you know, that deep meditative state maybe is the state that a slash gets into, but it's
Jane (
01:34:22
):
A little way off slash but maybe 20, 22. We'll see how it goes.
Warwick (
01:34:27
):
The hair's very similar though.
Jane (
01:34:30
):
That's true. That's true. Yeah. I'd probably have to get some neck reinforcements to really be able to catch up with it.
Warwick (
01:34:35
):
Right. For someone who hasn't seen giant giant has a huge mane of blonde hair. What'd you call it a mine or an explosion?
Jane (
01:34:44
):
Yeah, possibly either. Or I answered to both.
Warwick (
01:34:50
):
One of the, one of the funniest things John has ever told me was, you know, she was doing a Facebook live or something or they have the comments, the side. And one day since comment was, I'd like to come her here.
Jane (
01:35:03
):
I still don't know what to make of that. Make that feel. I feel slightly uncomfortable about it. She had a profile picture of a cat too, or they had a profile picture of a cat, which is slightly more concerning. See, I took it as a as a criticism, like do something about your hair, but you are more like someone wants to brush your hair.
Warwick (
01:35:27
):
No, no, no. I actually took it as the criticism thing. Like this lady, like her eyes twitching, like your hair has got knots in it and I want to get them all out. You know, it's not what I want to come here with a creepy way. It's like,
Jane (
01:35:40
):
Yeah. I can say I'm surprised that I get more of those comments accurately.
Warwick (
01:35:44
):
Well, yeah, it's funny. Cause your hair looks like that a lot and it's great. I love it. It's going to be gigantic if Jane's hair didn't come along for that.
Jane (
01:35:58
):
No, that's actually, I'll tell you a slightly unrelated, funny story, but we've got a curly coat retriever, dog and she's Stella and she's got like the tight curls and we live in a farmy tight area. So she's pretty much she's very much not a fun dog apart from the fact that she rolls in the mud and has a really great time outside. But when we took her to the groomers, my little boy when he was little at the time burst into tears when she came out because she was all floofy and he didn't recognize it
Jane (
01:36:31
):
Maybe that would happen too. If I got myself to green, my own children wouldn't recognize me. So it made me laugh.
Warwick (
01:36:41
):
Oh, the old Nike laugh. So we probably should tell these people cause we're really excited to get into giant pike stuff. Now, where do we, where do we find Jane Pike?
Jane (
01:36:51
):
My website I think would be the best place. That's confidentrider.online. And then I'm on Facebook at the competent writer and Instagram confident underscore writer, but definitely confidentrider.online is the place. And you can find the, my membership program and all the other bits and pieces on there. There's podcasts and blogs and yeah, the whole works.
Warwick (
01:37:13
):
I think you're a bit like me. You, you you have a great deal of information on there.
Jane (
01:37:17
):
Yeah. There's a lot of stuff on there and I'm hopefully helpful.
Warwick (
01:37:22
):
That's all I can. It's it's, it's, I'm just excited about where, where you're going to go with it because I, you know, I've got experienced with what you used to do and kind of like on a parallel universe, I've been diving into what you're now doing, but with therapists at the same time, and I'm excited about what it's doing to me and I'm excited about what you'll bring to the table and it's also, you know, so lining up with what I'm doing with the horses. And so I'm re I'm so excited about where it's gonna go, because I think, I think you've, you've hit the nail on the head it's and I've not seen it anywhere else. It's you know what I mean? Yeah.
Jane (
01:38:02
):
Yeah. I haven't either.
Warwick (
01:38:04
):
I think it's groundbreaking doing what you're doing, bringing what, bringing that stuff you've been learning into this arena. I don't think anybody has bought, you know, a lot of that somatic stuff into, you know, into this sphere of, you know, and, and I think I can, I really think that that influence and the impact will be far and wide. Cause it's, it's it's really needed. I mean, I'm starting to understand how,
Jane (
01:38:36
):
Yeah. It's been a game changer for me. Like it's, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to talk over you slight delay.
Warwick (
01:38:44
):
Oh, go ahead. No, you're fine.
Jane (
01:38:46
):
No, I was just saying it's just been such a game changer for me. Because you know, the I, with my own young horses and we're starting them and they've got, you know, they're, they're big energy horses and and I can see that I am in a place where I can meet them now, you know, like I'm, I'm not, I'm sort of, and it's, it's exciting. It feels like it's a really joyful place to be. Not necessarily, like I said before, always easy, but it's like, I have this capacity now, whereas before I think there was a little part of me that was like, I'm not being addressed. And that was that part that, that body-based part. And so now it just such a great opportunity because the crossovers are huge from the sort of non horse world to the horse world. And now I'm, I'm really playing with how to better articulate some of the techniques and some of the learnings to apply them to how we're working with our horses and how we're riding. And it's a really, I think it's a really exciting thing. I love it.
Warwick (
01:39:47
):
Yeah. Like I said, I think it's, I think it's groundbreaking stuff and I think we'll be hearing about it for a long time to come. And I think if not from you from somewhere else, but as far as I can tell, you're the, you're the, the first one I'm probably not the, maybe not the first one who's doing it. That the first one who is appealing to the general public, you know what I mean? My bit of a journey, finding out different stuff with horses, it's out there. What I thought I'd discovered it's out there. There's a lot of it out there, but it's not very, it's not very public. It's like people I've in corners that tend to do it and it needs to be translated.
Jane (
01:40:32
):
There needs to be a translator that's the or a medium that it comes through, you know? And I don't mean it in the kind of like an esoteric way, but it's like, there's, it's, I hope my hope. And I think this is what you do with your work, as well as like some of the, some of the concepts I feel like, Oh, I've sort of discovered this thing. And then you'll realize that's been a thing before. Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm drawing on so many different, amazing minds and people that have created and brought all these understandings to us and because of my passion with horses and the work that we do, it's sort of like that, that's the filter that makes sense for me to express it. And I guess that's the, the, the, the amazing transformative quality that horses offer us is that, you know, so many of us start thinking, Oh, I gotta be a better writer or I'm going to do this.
Jane (
01:41:18
):
Cause my horse is like this. And then all of a sudden you're like, Oh my childhood. And like, it's like, you don't even expect that piece to come out, but it's like, they're just this, this is where it takes us, I guess when you get to that layer where you go beyond the transactional into the transformational and it's kind of yeah, just fine. There's, there's people that I learned from that definitely are like, you see them as translators. It's like, Oh, I get it when you explain it like that, or I get it in this context. And that's what I sort of hope that, that my work can be for some people and then other people will be that for other people, you know, just depends on the right person for the right person. So, yeah.
Warwick (
01:41:58
):
Yep. Well that was, that was awesome. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of speechless and you know how I'm never speechless, but yeah, I learned some, I learned some stuff about the way I've looked at life for quite a long time today. So that's the thing.
Jane (
01:42:17
):
Oh, thank you. I talking of journeys, I still remember seeing you in Robyn for the first time at equity way back all those years ago. That was a real pivot point for me too. So I'm incredibly grateful for your work in the you know, you are, so you won't feel brave, but I remember like when you started out on the new path that you're on now, or like the road that you're on now, it was incredibly humbling, but also a real privilege to watch someone who'd been doing something so successfully for such a long time present a new way of being potentially not knowing how that was going to come, you know, how that was going to be received and potentially like threatening what had come before. And so that was it gave a lot of us courage to do similar things. So I thank you for that.
Warwick (
01:43:14
):
Thanks for being there. It's yeah, it's kind of cool. Cause you know, you've been, you've, you've seen, you've been around long enough, you know, we've known each other long enough to see that progression and and I've seen your progression too, and I'm just, I'm excited where we're both heading to it.
Jane (
01:43:33
):
Me too. Yeah, me too. Thank you for everything.
Warwick (
01:43:37
):
Cool. Thank you. So guys, I'm going to have to, to wrap this up now, but I said at the start, when I first started, Jane's one of my favorite people during this podcast that actually may have jumped up to my absolute favorite. She might be while in the background. Anyway. Thanks. Thanks for joining me, Jane. And thanks guys for joining us and I will catch you next time on, another episode of the journey.
Speaker 5 (
01:44:07
):
Okay. Thanks guys. Thanks for listening to the journey on podcast with work Schiller Warwick has over 650 full length training videos on his online video library at videos dot [inaudible] dot com. Be sure to follow Warwick on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram, to see his latest training advice and insights.