Spike Mendelsohn - Top Chef Alum, Author, Restaurateur, and Entrepreneur

 I never even went back to cow's milk for the reason that I just felt that it was such a comparable product and actually
 I felt made me feel a little bit even lighter and you have even like these mushroom milks coming out.
 Oh, magic mushroom milks coming out. Hey, all right. Now we're talking. Now we're getting radical.
 Sign me up. There should be a program for young adults that requires them to go work in the
 restaurant industry.
 We're listening to the radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan
 Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the radcast. You know,
 a little hungry today, folks. I like talking food. I like talking plant-based. I'm here with Spike
 Middleton X top shelf contestant author bad ass dude. What else can I call you Spike?
 All the acronyms dishwasher. This washer. I know true entrepreneur. I was just picking up trash in
 my office. I'm like, you know, we do it all when you own the business, right? Never stops. Never
 stop. Well, good to have you on the show. It's great to be here, man. Great to be here. So are you
 to wait? Are you are you plant based? Are you? Are you? No, I like it, but I eat everything, brother.
 I mean, like, yeah, I haven't figured out how like, I'm not a bodybuilder, but I do lift,
 you know, like five days a week. I mean, I'm more into the lifting side than the cardio side.
 And yeah, I haven't figured out the perfect balance. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there.
 I'm going to get DMs now. Like, hey, you could totally be plant based and get get all your protein.
 Oh, yeah. But I know. But I haven't figured out that perfect balance. And I haven't given up,
 you know, we taught pre-episode about our caffeine kicks, but I haven't figured out how to give
 up meat yet. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm not the I'm a flexitarian myself. So I'm not like really,
 you know, although, you know, we'll get into it. Although I own some some vegan brands now,
 I've always been a guy to preach balance in our food system to be honest with you. And not only
 our food system, but in our own diets, it just felt like that's always the healthiest option.
 You know, too much of anything can't be great for you, I feel. Yep. So to me, it's always been
 about like, just figure out the right balance for yourself, because we are body all reacts differently.
 We all need different things, right? So we can't control that. Well, the great Abe Lincoln said
 everything in moderation, including moderation. I try to, I try to definitely have moderation
 in moderation. No, I don't. I feel like I have good balance there, but I, I am trying to figure out
 and maybe maybe you can help me with this, the how to eat healthier and on a time crunch and
 everything else. I don't, I'm not a burgers and fries every day guy or pizza every day guy,
 but it's like, it's kind of confusing now. Like you got a organic and you've got vegan and you've
 got, you know, all this stuff. And I think for some people it comes natural, but it's like trying
 to make the right choices and also have some flavor in your life, you know. Totally, totally,
 totally. I mean, flavor to me is everything, because that's the only way you get people to adopt
 into any new food trend, to be honest with you, right? So, you know, to me is all about like,
 again, like we're going to go back to like the idea of balance, but you going eating more plant
 based nutrition in your diet does not mean you're going to you necessarily have to sacrifice
 flavor and deliciousness, right? I think that used to be early stage when plant based,
 you know, came into the space that it was kind of the rhetoric, right? You couldn't find a
 plant based cheese that melted well or tasted like an American slice. Yeah. Look at milk,
 like look at the dairy market, look at the oat milks, the almond milks. I mean, that was an
 early conversion for me for like, I never even went back to cow's milk. And for no reason at all
 that I just, I mean, for the reason that I just felt that it was such a comparable product and
 actually I felt made me feel a little bit even lighter, you know, so if it just makes sense,
 like why, why even, you know, indulge in anything that different? So, you know, it's just small
 steps like this, you know, I have a company called ETH change and we did this incredible planet
 challenge and we did it for about 30 days. And where is CPG company? We have like a mushroom
 jerky in the market, but but the challenge was beyond selling jerky. It was about getting people
 to adapt small little habits in their lives and do some small little tweaks that can get them
 to look at the plant based motion and there were easy things that were like, swap your junk food
 for plant based junk food one day, right? Replace your cow's milk primer with plant based
 primer for your coffee and it was just these small little steps that you could take in your daily
 activities that would get you going and give you a little bit of confidence that you can do this.
 So, you know, I think it just takes time. Yep. And I oat milk was the first, like I never liked,
 I don't know if it was called, I guess it's the almond milk and all that. I was like, no,
 not getting there, you know, trying to try to do things, but then oat milk came out, I'm like,
 okay, all right, now we're talking. I'm drinking this ripple chocolate milk that's made out of
 peas right now. Oh wow. Yeah. Is it good? It's actually delicious. It's absolutely delicious. So
 that's the milk ones, the one that really like opened my mind up because you got the oats,
 the almonds, the pea milks, you have even like these mushroom milks coming out, you know,
 magic mushroom milks coming out. Hey, all right. Now we're talking. Now we're getting radical.
 Sign me. But that's what that's really what's exciting about this base though. It's like it's wide
 open. It's like the it's the renaissance of the plant plant base movement right now and it's
 just crazy to see everyone kind of adopting it. I know. I love it. Well, Spike, we jump right into it,
 which I love it. But I do want to give everybody a little background. I'm sure, you know,
 as I mentioned, meaning your own top shelf. And I know that story's out there and it's been
 number of years, but maybe give everybody a little bit of that synopsis on you and, you know,
 your history, you know, building up to, you know, plant burger and everything you had going on now.
 Yeah. So, you know, we're going to go way back top chef days, right?
 Well, you know, I think at least for perspective, all these cookie shows are so damn popular,
 man. I mean, I I couldn't believe it. Like I've had like Noah Sims for MasterChef, like a lot,
 you know, a lot of my buds now, like seem to be these come from these shows. And I'm like,
 well, I guess I just like food. I don't know what to do this. I mean, all of you guys seem so
 fucking chill. Like it. I don't know. I seem to, you know, intertwine with that. Well, but, uh,
 yeah, I don't think it's, you know, part of your history. Yeah. Noah Sims is a vibe, by the way.
 Oh, yeah. That guy I love. I love everything he puts out there that he is. He's he I like it a lot.
 So it's him though. I don't know if you met him or know him, but it's. Oh, dude. I mean,
 we're like brothers from another now. I always text like every other day. And, you know, he's been
 he's done a couple of charity events for me and different things. And dude is that is him. I mean,
 he is a vibe. He is he there's no one I've ever met like him. And he's the fucking coolest dude ever.
 Well, yeah, no, yeah. Um, so yeah, let's talk about it. I mean, listen to that. I
 I am cut from very deep roots in the restaurant industry. I'm from Montreal raised in a big
 Greek family and Jewish family. Uh, all my family members, uh, my Greek family members in some way
 are involved in the restaurant business and still are in Montreal, you know, the connection runs
 deep over there. I don't know if you've ever got a Montreal, but I'm out there in Montreal.
 There's some what an amazing eating, you know, food city. You got to go check it out on my list.
 I'll give you all the places. But, um, you know, and, uh, you know, I always spent my life
 in and around restaurant, basically, you know, I make it always make a joke. I'm just a dishwasher
 that knows some things because I watch so many dishes in my life at multiple restaurants. So, um,
 you know, I have to say that I got to stop you right there because yeah, my first job,
 I worked at a meat and three restaurant. I was 15 years old and I watched dishes for eight months.
 I think it made me who I am today. Like, until you scrub macaroni trays and meat and three
 dishes with gravy, you, you haven't, you haven't worked. You have not worked. You know what,
 there should be a program for young adults that requires them to go work in the restaurant
 industry that literally requires them whether I don't care if it's dishwasher and cooking or
 waitressing or whatever, but there's some grit that it engraves in you. There's some humility
 that it puts on you that I think you can't teach that. You can't ball up and teach that in
 the school. I highly agree. I mean, I have to say, it made me who I am. You know, so,
 so yeah, I mean, like, as I grew up in the industry, you know, my parents started
 traveling around the world. We went to Spain. We opened a ton of restaurants and then we landed
 in Florida. You know, I'll fast forward to, you know, was decided to go to culinary school.
 And, and then I, you know, it was a culinary school that I got really like inspired because it
 was the first time that I felt a little extra confident about a skill that I didn't really look
 as, as a skill. I was mostly kind of at that point still ashamed of being in the restaurant
 business. You know, like the parents are, you know, in the restaurant business, like, okay.
 So it was in school that kind of gave me the comments and be like, oh, you don't know how to make
 a Bernays or a stock or like, it was stuff that I, like, just grew up with. So that's kind of what
 set me off. And from there's kind of where I just went working, you know, I went to France and
 worked for some of the best chefs in the world, the Relais Chateaux, the remission restaurants.
 I wanted to be a French famous, like, through Mission Starship. I mean, that's, that was the
 trajectory. Like, that's who I went to go work for. And along those lines, I ended up in New York
 City, basically, working for Drew Nipparon at a Vietnamese restaurant. I had got a little bit
 bored of French food and was looking for, like, something to inspire me a little bit more. And
 Vietnamese is something somewhere I had traveled and really, like, took a liking to.
 And then the recession hit, you know, basically in 2000, you know, eight. And I decided to go on a
 top chef for reality show. My sister was a fan of the show. I think it came out. It was right after
 project one way. So she just happened to, you know, get into the show. And she says that you
 have to go do this. You have to go do the show. And I wasn't really into it. I was like, what
 are you kidding me? I'm not, you know, I'm a three Michelin star pedigree here, you know, and
 and soon enough, I saw one of my buddies on the show. I saw Marcel Vigneron on season two. And
 I mean, I were huge buddies and big buddies in culinary school. And I was like, oh, let me go,
 let me go do this. So yeah, I did top chef. I had no clue what I was getting myself into.
 I had never done any filming in front of the camera or never cooking in front of the camera.
 And it worked out pretty well for me, you know, I was able to like somehow come out of it with
 a really good edit, a really good somewhat of a brand, get recognizable. I had like this
 for Dora was wearing fucking with people the entire time on the show. And you know, it was the
 guy that took it not too serious, but serious enough. And that's kind of like that's kind of what
 happened. And from there, it just that that show just opened up all the opportunities. Open up all
 the opportunities too soon in my life, to be honest with you, which was interesting, you know,
 usually you have to work a little bit harder in the industry to get some of those those
 opportunities. And that show was special because it really just super launched you into getting
 all that kind of stuff. So that's that's kind of, you know, that's that's a little bit of top
 chef. I mean, I went on to do top chef all stars, iron chef, America, iron chef, and damn
 I mean, every every show you could think of I've been kicked off of. So,
 but you know what? A lot of people, I just call it normal people that have these opportunities.
 Maybe some people see it, but some people turn their nose up at it or think, you know, but,
 you know, I preach, you know, in an agency, an ad agency, and like I'm a total client's attention
 is currency. And anything you can do to hack the algorithm to get awareness on yourself,
 whether it's a TV show or opportunity, you get eyeballs in that that reach of, you know,
 media's reach and frequency. And you get to go on a show where you have all this reach,
 millions of people watching, all the frequency because you're on every week until you get off
 or whatever, but it just you get the shortcut, the whole algorithm, like you said, of life and
 work and business. Yeah, yeah, you get to do it. But when you do get it, and like, listen,
 people talk about like you get these opportunities in life and you're either able to harness them
 and run with it for the good or you get swallowed up, it's been out, right? And I was very lucky
 because I had a, I had ingrained a business background, a restaurant business background,
 and slightly, you know, some would say a hustle, you know, like my big Greek family in the
 restaurant business, you learn how to hustle, you learn, you learn, you know, you learn how to
 roll your sleeves up, go to work and get things done, you learn how to make noise in a big Greek
 family to get attention, you know? And my sister actually also had a marketing degree. So
 right after Top Chef, I think reason why we were able to harness some success and really run with
 it is that I kind of leaned back into my family. You know, we had been away from the business for
 so many years. I went to college and my sister went off to college and like my parents sold our
 childhood restaurants that we grew up in and when the recession hit my sister lost her job,
 you know, my two star restaurant in New York City had folded and with Drew and my mother and
 father were driving us absolutely fucking crazy in retirement. So we all decided to get them busy
 again and it's a really, they actually operate a lot better working than retirement. They still
 worked to understand, you know, my father was almost 80 now. But we saw, you know, we saw a unique
 opportunity in D.C. That was somewhat recession proof because it's D.C. It's not pandemic proof.
 We found that pretty art. But it was recession proof and basically, you know, we kind of
 assured this idea of these guys that come off these Top Chef shows, reality shows that they can
 bow up and run with it, right? And we used every ounce of marketing and publicity to our advantage
 at the height of Top Chef brand, right? Season four. Whether Top Chef brand liked it or not,
 we definitely used that to our advantage, right? We get like cease and assist letters in the mail
 using the logo and things of that sort. But to be honest with the like, listen, you know, like that's
 it's petty bullshit. I think Top Chef, I don't think they really understood what they really had
 launched, right? Which was like this massive like, like pumping of young chefs too early for their own
 good in the market with a ton of marketing publicity that are going to start to open a ton of
 restaurants. You know, I think Harold from season one opened one real small fine dining restaurant.
 But I was definitely one of the the first guy to go this fast casual route and make a ton of noise
 in a fast casual style like by selling burgers, you know? So, you know, and we harnessed and we
 worked hard and, you know, my family was involved and I think that's why we were able to be really
 successful. I mean, good stuff. Either was a immediate smash hit in 2008. I think was for a couple
 reasons. We were in a recession. The Obama administration just got elected and so there's a lot
 of influx of young people and entrepreneurs coming to the city. And burgers were the better burger
 movement was also happening at the same time. So, you know, that's kind of, that's kind of we
 landed that whole thing. So, yeah, that's cool. So we had good stuff eatery and then when was
 we the pizza? When did that come along? So yeah, we the pizza was like again, just trying to harness
 on, you know, strike when the iron's hot. We thought it was going to, you know, we didn't know
 how long it was all going to last, you know? Yeah. I still with my mother because she says,
 oh, this is just a honeymoon period for good stuff eatery. There's lines out the doors. This will
 go away in six, seven months and 15 years later, here we are still with good stuff eatery. And
 the idea with the pizza was like, we want to enter another fast casual space with the celebrity
 chef and a favorite food group. We had real estate right next door to us on, on, you know,
 you know, to get stuff eatery. So we said, we miss pizza from New York. So while we bring,
 you know, a little bit of New York style pizza to DC. And we, the pizza still kicks ass to this day.
 I mean, it's one of my favorite brands still to be honest, have of everything that I've done.
 It's super delicious. And yeah, I mean, like that's, you know, that's what we started doing.
 How, what is, I mean, owning these businesses, starting these brands, I mean,
 for people out there listening maybe, I mean, like, I mean, obviously, you learned to hustle
 at an early age, being in the restaurant businesses was not, these aren't new business ideas to
 you. I mean, obviously, concepts are new, but running and operating restaurants are not. But like,
 what, as an entrepreneur has like been some of your biggest learning lessons?
 Oh, you know, is that a where to start? Or is that a, yeah, no, it's a, it's, you know,
 my, my big learning in the business is, and it serves me right. You know, I'd say I'm a pretty
 successful guy. I'm, I'm not a, you know, you know, in retirement mode or like, making,
 but I've always been able to remain authentically myself throughout the process for the most part,
 you know, on who I am. And people always say, hey, Spike, you have a fantastic brand who works on
 it with you or Spike, you, this, and it's all, I've always really giggled about it. And,
 and, and, and now that my, my wife, you know, so because she always like, she sees it too,
 and she's like, it's so funny. You're so right. She's like, I've never worked or had like a session
 where I sat on the table and said, what is my brand? You know, like, I've never, you know, and that
 was just me, you know, I'm not saying that's wrong. Like, people, if you want to do that, go ahead,
 do that. But I've never sat and been like, what's Spike brand? Like, what are we representing? Like,
 what is the, the fine? I've just always been able to get involved in projects that felt right
 for me at that given time. And, you know, it was a stepping stone or a pathway to my next project.
 But I always remain authentically myself. I never really, you know, felt like I, you know,
 I mean, that's, that's kind of what I said. That was my biggest learning. But the most, the other
 important one is surrounding yourself with, with good people and not being afraid to surround yourself
 with people that may be better of, you know, in certain things in your business, right? Like,
 no, when to, no, no, when you're not the smartest person in that room on that subject, right? And
 don't let your ego chefs tend to have an ego because we're a food and we're in kitchens and we're
 badass. We're the rock stars. And like, all of a sudden, now we're fucking doctors and lawyers and
 politicians. But the truth is, is like, you know, I found that I'm, you know, my approach has been
 really great because I love propping others up in that, that support our, you know, what we do
 here. Like, it's, it's, there's a great team behind me that, that, and I have like two, three
 guys that have been with me for 15, 16 years. And I think it's really telling because, you know,
 we've all had such a good time in our lives for the last 15 to years. We've gotten a travel around
 the world. We've got to eat delicious food. We've all gotten to come up with really great concepts.
 Yes, I'm the face. I get that. But I pay, you know, there's a lot of work that goes into being
 the face. And, but there's also a lot of work that goes in the setting of the kitchen and the recipes
 and the training and all that kind of stuff that I don't do. You know, so there's a great balance.
 And I feel very fortunate. I was able to surround myself by some, some key members as well as my
 family at a certain point to help me do what we do. You know, like that's, that's what it is. So
 it's always don't take it all on yourself or think you're, you know, it's, it doesn't exist without,
 you know, without you because it sure can. So how have you built, you know, as you've built these
 companies and, you know, I mean, I get like running the day to day of, you know, restaurants one
 thing building that team. But like, but your core team like around you, you know, like how did you,
 how did you go about that process as your personal brand and obviously your restaurants and other
 things and book and everything like that? I mean, how, what was that process? How did you go about
 building your team? Yeah. Oh, you know, it's, you know, I, when you asked me that question,
 I think about the two guys that have supported me apart from my family, obviously, the most in my
 career. And it's this guy named Mike Colletti and Brian Lakaya. And these guys were guys that I met,
 one of them I met at Lesurk when we opened the new Lesurk and the Bloomberg building in New
 York City. And then one of them I met right, you know, my being a meast restaurant when I ran
 with Drew. And, you know, to thicken thin like these guys, I mean, we're not perfect. We made
 mistakes along the way many times, you know, but loyalty and just being a good human and knowing
 that we're not perfect. I think as, as has paid dividends in my life because, you know, it's
 hard to build that these days to have people that are around you that are loyal, right? And,
 like those do or die people in your life, you know, like you just don't get that right now that much.
 And I think you got to be really patient with it, right? And, and, you know, and, and,
 I mean, you know, somewhat forgiving at times. And, you know, it's just, it's, you know,
 being in the restaurant business is much like being in a relationship to be honest with you,
 like being married or having a girlfriend or there's emotion in it. There's struggles in it.
 It's, it's, it's very, I'm sorry, an economy to delete that one. But, um, but yeah, I mean, that's,
 you know, but listen, I have fallen flat on my, my face a million times in this business. Like,
 you know, like if people think like, oh my god, has this guy like just, you know, like, you know,
 has it had a pretty good career, pretty consistent, keep pushing it. Well, man, it comes from a,
 a lot of, you know, falling flat on my face, learning the hard way, like, you know, I,
 you know, I go back to the days that I got trained in France, you know, I was going to want to
 American chef, like out of 60 French chefs. And I got like humiliated every day for three months,
 like before they started respecting me at all, like, you know, like that, that builds grit in
 your life, right? Like that, like, let's you know, let's you know that, like, you got a lot to
 learn out there. And, and, um, you know, I, I never, I never took the easy path really. So it, it,
 it just, um, I don't know, it's building a team's, it's, it's, it's, it's a forever exercise.
 It doesn't stop. We're, we're still trying to build a team now. Like, we're in the middle of
 the pandemic. And it's, it's not easy. But guess what? The two guys that have been most loyal in my
 life are tied by side going down this vegan startups with me right now. You know, so it's,
 it's a place we never think we'd be. So that's cool. I want to transition to plant burger. But
 before that, I mean, how often are you cooking every day still? I mean, like, I mean, I see your
 stuff. And I know you, you things and events here there. But are you in the kitchen every day?
 No, no, I mean, I'm not in a professional restaurant kitchen every day executing a service.
 You know, I made a, a big pivot in my life. Let's say six years ago, I felt like we were, you know,
 in our own bubble, in our own restaurant bubble. And I, I, I felt our bubble was going to burst
 in a big way. We, you know, we were opening restaurants at the highest rate that we,
 that we had to ever open restaurants. You know, food truck craze and every, every lawyer,
 doctor, career changer, want to be in food business because it started to get celebrated.
 You have all these TV shows. You had all these celebrity chefs. You had, you know, there's a big,
 you know, in the last 10 years, America's food culture has grown in a massive way, right? So
 I started to diversify my portfolio because I didn't want to only rely on having to run a
 restaurant to be my living. So, and what I mean by diversified, I meant I started getting into
 food policy, you know, I started getting into, you know, consulting, you know, for other people,
 like for their brands. Yeah. I started looking at the plant-based movement because I thought we
 were going to experience a massive shift in our food system, you know, which we are not only the
 way we grow food, the way we through travels, you know, you know, you know, all the things, you know.
 And I would have never predicted a pandemic would have hit us the hardest and, and,
 you know, bust that bubble for us. Yeah. You know, I never would have predicted that, but that's what,
 you know, that's what ended up tanking our industry for a little bit here and popping that bubble,
 and is only because I started to diversify my portfolio really that I was able to like
 survive the pandemic pretty well, you know. So that's kind of what, you know, my, you know,
 my thing, I opened a restaurant in a sports complex that was instead of, you know,
 cuisine driven, it was driven off like three buzzwords, which was hearty, healthy, and hydration,
 and, you know, like, I don't know, I might be the first chef to ever have a restaurant next to
 two hockey rinks in a sports complex, you know. I diversify, just do different things that
 weren't just traditional opening up a restaurant in a, you know, in a, just a space, you know.
 And that's kind of what led me to Plantburner, which I think is the culmination of
 all my experience, you know, thus far in the business, I'm able to put forth a brand,
 not only that really resonates and is like very transparent. Well, resonates with the advocacy
 that I love to do now, the food policy part of my, my life. But it actually lets me be 100%
 transparent as an entrepreneur as well, which is you can't very say so often that, you know,
 as a chef, you're 100% transparent within your business. And what I mean by that is like,
 I had a bistro, I source local ingredients, but not all local, you know, everything was
 in local, like sustainable, everything wasn't organic, right? So if you're a chef and you're
 like out there and you're doing advocacy on behalf of the farm bill, for sustainability and you're
 doing advocacy for, you know, better food nutrition and food deserts and this and that, you know,
 you'd like to feel that you're able to have those practices in your own business. But the market,
 the food industry set up as such that's often very much monopolized obviously. So it doesn't really
 allow you, you know, to do that in a profitable way. You know, so you know, they're going to dive
 by your own sword here or you're going to decide to make money. So, you know, you do what you can,
 but with plant burger, what the most exciting thing for me is we were so smart about how we
 launched this. And again, it was not just me, it was, you know, we have Seth Goldman from
 honesty and beyond meat that is our partner and his wife, Julie Farcus as well. We have Ben
 Kaplana, which is our CEO and he has a sharp head of background and Barbara Lynch background.
 And then we have Margarita Herdaceo, which is a young brand's woman. So we have a ton of experience,
 but you know, we decided to open up our first plant burger inside of Whole Foods.
 We wanted to basically do a proof of concept, right? And this was actually Seth's idea.
 He had relationship with Whole Foods, obviously, with honesty and all that kind of stuff. So
 we opened our first plant burger in Silver Spring in a space that's a kiosk, no big than my dining
 room right here, 150 square feet, very small space. And we built a real brand behind it, right? We
 just didn't say, oh, it's a small old kiosk. We really like built heavy, really well branded.
 And we enter the market as a delicious indulgent burger, not a vegan burger, not a vegetarian burger.
 You know, our idea here is we're just a delicious burger like any other burger, right?
 And in fact, just like, you know, 85 to 90% of our clientele are not vegans of vegetarians.
 You know, a thousand is this model we'd be out of business, right? And this people like you and I
 have a little bit more balance in our diet, right? There's as well, you know, if your cholesterol is a
 you know, too much of eating too much red meat and you need to eat the less, you love burgers.
 And you said you're not too much of a burger guy, but there's a ton of other, you know, plant-based
 foods that you can, you know, enjoy. So we launched plant burger and
 at, you know, out of 115 square feet, we were doing $6,000 square foot. So whole foods was like,
 holy shit, but like I assure everything based off the square footage. And it just so happened
 after our first restaurant success, the pandemic hit. So we had to take a step back and say, hey,
 what's going on? Are we just going to fold our new startups? But we were lucky because as soon as
 like all these, you know, regulations started coming off, they were deemed essential because we
 were inside of whole foods. The thing that happened with whole foods is that their hot foods kind of
 folded through the pandemic, right? So it's like, you know, we had this opportunity to just jump into
 all these different whole foods, all of a sudden, at very low cost, like no upfront costs. Like we're
 you know, we opened up, you know, open up 10 stores, probably off 250,000 bucks. Wow.
 That's unheard of, right? So we were able to work through the pandemic and open up nine more
 stores. So now we have 10. We have fabulous business with whole foods. We proved our concept.
 We're climbing out of the pandemic and we're going to go open our first New York City location
 in Union Square this December. So I live in Union Square for two years. I know it well.
 That's awesome location. Well, listen, now that we're going to have tight-based burgers over there,
 man. I know. When I go visit my friends, I'm going to I will have a plane burger. I'm kind of
 getting hungry as it is right now. What's New York to South Carolina? What's up with that?
 Oh, well, I run an ad agency and I cut my teeth at some of the largest agencies in the world.
 So I spent, I've been in the business for 20 years and 17 working for other people. Radicals,
 three years old, but I worked in Manhattan for, you know, about five and a half years. So yeah,
 we built out some part training in Manhattan. I know. Just cut my teeth, brother. But I love it. So
 but it's got to me. Okay, so we're an indulgent burger, the plane burger. I'm getting hungry here.
 We're getting towards lunch town, like, hmm, plan burger. Is there one in our whole foods here,
 locally? I don't know. I doubt it in South Carolina. So soon, I hope. But what, when you say it's,
 is it indulgence more than, you know, I don't know, like I guess, incredible burgers or it,
 you know, Burger King or whatever. Yeah, the impossible one. So yeah. So yeah, I mean,
 so, like, listen, you know, I own Goodsip eatery. I've been in the burger business for a while.
 I would have never opened up a plant-based burger if I can be as good if not better
 than Goodsip. You know, like, so we did that, you know, and it was really
 Seth. I was on a policy panel at GW and Seth was on the panel and he brought burgers and snuck
 him under my seat, right? And basically said, I heard you're the burger king. He's like,
 think about these. And I kind of laughed him off. I was like, oh, not another vegan burger.
 And my wife is vegan. So, you know, I've always struggled with making her this black bean burger
 which sucks too much water or vegetable burgers. They always sucked. And she never really got to
 enjoy burgers. I took him home and grilled him up. And like, they bled. They seared. I was just like,
 well, like, wait a second. You know, I was, I was taken back. So I immediately emailed Seth and I was
 like, hey, like, you guys were really actually, you really have something here. And I didn't even
 know who beyond meat was. Me, you know, obviously, I'm so rejected. I was like, you have something
 here, right? And they've raised like hundreds of millions of dollars. So, so, you know, but I think
 Seth really, you know, took a liking because the burger wasn't perfect. And I was able to give
 some critique on some stuff and stuff that they probably had already known. But they started
 engaging me on developing burger content. And, you know, whenever they had a tasting, for instance,
 with a company, they would get me to come there and make the burger. And so I was really,
 I started developing this relationship with Seth. And so that's what we use. We use the Beyond Meat
 Patty because we think it's the best plant-based patty in the market right now. And lucky enough,
 like I said, like, there's this massive shift in our food system. I think it's for a couple
 reasons. I think like whether, you know, you can debate if you believe climate change is real or
 not. But, you know, people when they hear climate change and they want to make a difference,
 I don't really think that they have so many opportunities to know how to make that difference,
 right? It's just, it's a little loss. There's too much information out there about climate change
 and its effects. It's a little confusing, right? For, for, you know, your every day person,
 that's just like working and going to work and taking care of kids and what have you. But one
 thing that we found that really resonates with people is if you look at food through the lens of
 climate change, right? The choices that you make in your everyday diet actually can have a profound
 effect on the climate, right? Cumulias humans. So, like, taking the matters into, if you want to be
 the most effective, it's taking the matters into your own hands on where you put your money towards.
 So, you know, hopefully the idea of putting your money towards plant-based foods is something
 that resonates with people and they see it as a way to help, you know, reduce their own personal
 environmental footprint, right? And it doesn't have to, you don't have to only be plant-based,
 I just, again, everything in moderation, right? A little bit of balance in the life. So,
 that's kind of like how we come to the market. We have like this advocacy about climate change.
 This is the climate change fast food brand of the future, right? The best burger for the planet
 by the planet. And that's how we come at it. We have the best sweet potato fries that you've ever
 had with all the dipping sauces. We do oat-based milkshakes, right? Oateses, you know, just like a
 frosty that you get when these. Our cheese is fall your heart cheese. It melts. It's delicious.
 It's made out of potato starch. It's absolutely fantastic. We're also, since we used to be on
 meat, we're soy-free, GMO-free, allergen-free, and our whole brand is also kosher, which is huge.
 And, you know, I think we just, we fired, you know, we're firing at all angles here on this concept.
 And we're also democratizing plant-based foods, right? So, again, this plays into a lot of
 work I like to do in policy space where, you know, fast food restaurants really targeted,
 you know, food deserts and people that came from, you know, poorer backgrounds, right? And
 very much the African-American community and Hispanic community, all this. And, you know,
 you look at the rates of obesity and diabetes, and it's all happening the most in these,
 these underprivileged societies and areas, right? And it's because of, it's because of what they're
 eating. You know, so for us, a lot of plant-based foods are too expensive. So, again, they're not
 available enough, sorry, for everyone. So, democratizing plant-based foods is a big
 part of what we do as well. So, you know, that's kind of why we've positioned plant-burger as the
 next big fast food brand, not fast casual brand. So, yeah, I love that because that's been the biggest,
 I think you hit on a lot of points there, a lot to the fact, but I think you really nailed,
 I think what's been the biggest hurdle was the affordability, approachability, you know,
 positioning, you know, to broader markets, you know, because it's one thing to be in whole foods.
 It's another to be in the fast food segment and really competing and making a dent in, you know,
 broader society. Yeah, yeah, and you're absolutely right. I mean, it is one thing to be in
 whole foods and what that brought to us was like a confident consumer because, first of all,
 the whole food brand really obviously amplifies what we were doing, right? There's a very,
 you know, strict rulebook on the ingredient you could use in your brand and the ingredient you
 can't use in your brand. And what I loved about that exercise at Whole Foods was that I came across
 stuff that I was using that I had no clue had this weird name chemical in it as preservative,
 that wasn't, we should use or things of that sort. So, as a chef, it kept me so honest and
 transparent about what we were using in plant-burger, right? That I'm completely transparent on what we
 do, like the fact that we're cushioned, the fact that we're sore, we have all these certifications
 and it's and we're whole foods approved as well. So, you know, our supply chain is pretty locked up,
 pretty well. So, that's something that we're really proud of. But then after we gain that
 confidence and we gain that confidence of our brand inside Whole Foods, taking it to the streets
 of New York City in a brick and mortar for the very first time is going to be the true the true test
 of our brand. So, that's, you know, we're gearing up for that and we're looking forward to it.
 I think we're going to smash it. I think you are too. Perfect time, perfect place.
 It sounds like a hit to me. There's a little vegan burger wars happening in New York City right now.
 There's a couple, you know, five, six, seven brands going down there now in a big way. So,
 well, it kind of takes us back, you know, I listened to this podcast called, I'm sure you've heard
 of the business wars. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, there's one called burger wars. Yeah. Right,
 that they do. It's about McDonald's and Burger King, which was called burger chef back in the day.
 And they were talking about how they were all very much competing for the same space and all these
 different marketing things that they did to compete against each other. And it was like a war.
 Like they were literally, you know, as an ad, running an ad agency, I'm sure you understand like,
 man, they were going at it back in the day to develop. I feel like that's kind of where we're at
 right now with ourselves. Oh, yeah. I've been involved in a few of those for eyes and AT&T,
 Coke, Pepsi. Oh, yeah. You know, Apple, Samsung,
 Motorola. I was part of it. I worked on a campaign. I worked on the Apple launch. Actually,
 one of the first ones, but then we're with Motorola when they launched the droid. If you remember
 that, like that was in 2008, nine, the droid smartphone. And we had all campaign that, you know,
 it was I can't do this. Yeah. Yep. It was fun. Um, cool, man. Let me ask you this. So random.
 If I'm someone at home, making burgers and give me your tips. We're going to have the
 Radcast tips for at home. Radcast tips for how can someone at home make a delicious burger?
 Yes. Well, here we go. Radcast tips with spike metals. I like it. This could be a new segment,
 brother. I mean, totally. We're going to fire this off. So first of all, okay. Yeah. You need good
 meat. Okay. That based meat, you know, animal, whatever you guys are, I want to do turkey chicken.
 Get a good blend of meat in there. Okay. Now, always pull it out of the refrigerator and get it
 to room temperature. Never take your protein out of the fridge and put it right in the pan. That's
 a big no no for starters, right? Burger bun ratio. Let's talk about that. All right. Guys, you can't
 be using these massive hala buns for burgers. It's too much bread. All right. Make sure you get a bun
 that fits the size of burger that you're going to create. If it's a thin patty, get a little bit
 of a smaller bun. If you're going for this big hotel grill star, you know, pull side burger,
 you can get away with a little bit more bun, but very important burger to bun ratio can make or
 break your burger. All right. Salt and pepper. All right. I don't want to see anybody stuffing
 blue cheese or butter inside their burgers. Please guys, whoever started that trend, please stop it.
 Okay. Just just just stop. All right. Just just let the protein be the protein. Salt and pepper.
 That stuff right before you're about to hit it in the grill. Don't salt and pepper too soon. You
 don't want to get all that water out. Water and oil do not mix. Make sure you have a hot
 swiss burring. Not smoking. Whisk burring smoke of a pan. Right. You want to wait for that little
 whisper of smoke come out. Then put your burgers in there. Set it and forget it. Flip it once. Don't
 smash. Don't smash. And then to where we pack all the flavor, toppings are everything in burgers,
 sauces, textures. Get some fungions in there guys. Make some sriracha aioli. Get some caramelized
 onions. Make sure you get toppings. And then of course, cheese. All right. Don't be lazy with
 your cheese melting skills. Okay. Cap it. Cap it. You know, we all have those lids that we don't
 use for all the pans we buy. Find one of those lids in your basement. Bring it up. Make sure you
 top it. You want to want to have like this again, whispering smoke of melting vacuum. The worst
 thing is just let cheese melt from the bottom heat up because then it separates and it brings
 a whole different texture of your cheese guys smiling cheese. We want we want cheese to shine
 back at you. You should be able to see your reflection in your cheese. Just like I see mine right
 now in this computer. And that's it. I think that's it. I think those are them. I love it. I love
 it first. That's going to be a highlight clipping itself. We're going to have a two minute highlight
 of how to make the best burgers at home. Perfect. You got like two minutes for a quick
 rad or fat. I give you a keyword and you tell me rad or fat. All right. First,
 fireball fire keg. They're making kegs of fireball. Rad or fat.
 Fad. All right. Food carts.
 Right. All right. All right. Impossible burgers. You got to, you know,
 oh, here's a layup plant based. Totally rad. I love it, brother. Where can everybody keep up
 with all things spike metals and plant burger? Good stuff, Vita. Everything. We're going to
 right keep up with you, brother. Well, you guys can you can follow me at at chef spike on Twitter
 and spike the chef on Instagram. But mostly you can probably just go to my website, which is
 chef spike.com. And you can see all the stuff that I've worked on in the past 10 years. And
 what I'm working on currently and, you know, just kind of get a little idea of my what my brand
 is. No, just kidding. Get a good idea of what who I am and what I like to do. And that's
 that's it, man. Like we are I'm in the I'm a in the DC area. If you guys are happy to be in the
 MV, please hit us up. Look out for my NFT project. I'll be launching soon. Yes, you heard
 that right. Oh, right. So you sent me into this NFT world. We're going to see what happens.
 I love it. You're in the metaverse, brother. I'm in the metaverse. I can't go.
 I love it, man. And if you're in New York, plant burger launching December,
 opening up in December, we got three locations coming right behind it. I'm going to be in Miami
 next week at the sea food and wine festival. So if you're in Miami, come support the burger
 of competition. We have over there. And Ryan, let's do this again, man. This was fun.
 No, man. I love it. And if I get the DC, man, we can get together. And maybe if I'm visiting
 friends in New York and you're there, we'll meet and have a plant burger.
 Totally. And you know what? I'm going to have friends in North Carolina, which I'm sure is not too far
 from South Carolina. There we go. I need to venture off to South Carolina a little bit. I haven't
 been. I'd love to show you're on Greenville, man. So it's a good food scene here. I think you
 job with it. And I really admire all you're doing with food education and the like. So
 love it, brother. Let's stay in touch and we'll meet again. Thank you, Ryan.
 All right, guys, you know where to find us. We're at theradcast.com.
 Search for spike. Search for plant food. All the content for today is searchable on our website.
 You know where to find me. I'm at Ryan off with all the channels. We'll see you next time at the Radcast.