Do Super Bowl Ads Work on You?

 You're listening to The Radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan
 Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of The Radcast. I am
 joined for a special edition here. I might say four guests in one. Four and one here
 on The Radcast. We're bringing all the heat today. You know, it's Super Bowl time. Super
 Bowl just passed and we thought no better time to kind of talk about the impact of the
 Super Bowl. And specifically, the impact of neuro in marketing. We're going to get
 brainy today specifically. I'm joined by Tyler Lewis here. He is the director of client
 solutions. Am I getting it right, Tyler? I don't really think through that here on Monday.
 The Monday after Super Bowl. It's basically a blanketed term for arbiter of everything.
 Yes. I can appreciate those running in company. I don't ever know. I kid. I also joined
 by Mike Weston, our creative director and Mr. Josh Hill, our digital marketing manager,
 URU, extraordinaire. Yeah. Ad guy, digital media guy. But yeah, I joke all the time. We
 struggle with titles as well because, you know, how many hats do I need you to wear?
 Designed up titles. Appropriate there. But at neuro insight company, you know, Tyler,
 let's start there. Like I want, let's explain a little bit about what you do, what neuro
 insight does. Let's let's knock that out because I think it's cool. It's really interesting
 what you guys are doing. Let's start there. And then we can kind of get into some of it on
 the Super Bowl. I appreciate that. No. So neuro insight is a company that specializes in
 the art of applying neuroscience to understanding how people respond to creative or content.
 And the entire crux of what we do is based off of the fact that whenever we watch something
 or interact with anything, there, there's two different types of processing that happens
 of content, right? You have explicit processing of things that you can actually like talk to
 or respond to you being potentially like, you know, do you remember this? Do you like this?
 Do you like that? Or do you dislike something? And then there's implicit processing, which
 which happens in the subconscious. And the subconscious is makes up 90% of our human brain processing.
 And it dictates how we respond to things or how we act on things later on. So we're able to look at,
 you know, how the brain is actually responding to things in real time to understand whether or not
 we're able to communicate effectively the messages that we're trying to communicate to people.
 And it naturally people will remember things that are memorable or that are emotionally engaging,
 but it's important for us to use neuro-based methodologies to understand how people are actually
 responding to content. So our company measures literally brain response with these headcaps
 of how people's brains are responding to content in real time instead of asking people questions
 on the back end. This is the future. Like it's like, when I coming up through marketing, it was like,
 this is what, you know, I can like see it like in it, you know, like here's what we might do one day,
 you know, like you see flying cars and like in other things. It's like, one day we're going to be
 able to put something on your head and know how you're thinking about it. Like this is it, isn't it?
 Yep, absolutely. I remember I kind of mis-qualitative focus groups because, you know, the snacks were
 really good. I mean, I'll tell you what happens to Neilson buttons. Can people eat while they're
 brain pad on? Their brain cap? Qualitative focus groups are very entertaining, but understanding how
 people are truly processing information is, you know, what we're specializing in. Like, especially
 again, because we're going to get a lot of responses of people telling you in a qualitative focus
 group what they think you want to hear in a focus group or understanding of like, you know,
 what they think they want to know. But at the same time, the subconscious is so much deeper in
 driving our future action, which is why we exist as a company.
 Well, if you ask anyone, does advertising work on you? They all say exactly.
 Those ads don't work on me, but I did like that commercial.
 That's usually what you hear. Josh, what's your perspective on all this? Oh, man, ads work on me.
 I would, there was a time I definitely was like, absolutely not, but now I'm like working in it in
 the space and like using the algorithm and stuff. And now I'm like, you know, I'm going to purposely
 like trigger my algorithms to show me things so I can buy things. I was like, I want it to work on me.
 So as we transition, like, we wanted to bring Tyler on because, you know,
 all right, we're going to have a follow up. This is a two-part episode.
 Tyler's team is analyzing a lot of the Super Bowl ads and the ones that supposedly ranked high.
 We're going to find out if they really rank high on our follow up episode next week. So one
 and two, but I do want to just get into a little bit of discussing what we thought of of the big
 game. I don't think we're going to get a mark by the Super Bowl. We're running that joke
 pre episode. Like, can we talk about the Super Bowl? They know, and like, the trademark or whatever.
 I think this is a non-paid podcast. So I think we're good. So we can say Super Bowl? We can say Super Bowl.
 It's not the big game. Super Bowl was probably called my bowl of guacamole.
 Yes, yes, yes. But what was everybody's, I'll start with you, Tyler. What was your impression of,
 oh, hey, look, we're the radcasts. We can talk about whatever the hell we want, like both the game
 itself and the ads. I'll tell you what, I think I'm very biased in this response, but I was very
 happy that Tom Brady was able to pull off what he did at the age of 43. It was a fairly boring game,
 overall. I think the game was like done after the first half, but overall, like, it was very pumped
 to see that Tom Brady was able to pull it off. Being from Michigan have a lot of strong ties to
 Tom Brady and the University of Michigan in general. So, you know, I was very happy. It was very
 cool to see and witness greatness live. You know what I mean? Like, this is something that we will
 never see again in our lifetime. So from a game perspective, great. From an advertising perspective,
 I think people were trying to, and trying to hard to be safe. You know what I mean? I think
 that safety was replicated in the number of celebrities that we saw in the advertisements
 and the amount of, like, slapstick comedy that was also presented, because I think we've gotten
 to a point, especially comparing it to, like, past Super Bowls. We've gone to a point where everyone
 is trying to play it very, very safe. Brands are trying to play it very safe. That's the reason
 why we haven't seen the amount of, like, Super Bowl ads being bought as quickly as they used to in
 the past years. For example, last year, the Super Bowl was sold out in November. CBS didn't sell out
 their Super Bowl ads until the week before the Super Bowl. So Brands are playing it very,
 very, very, very safe. And they didn't take as many risks as they used to. And that being in
 taking social stances or taking stances in general on their own, like, brand ideology. People were
 just trying to make jokes and be entertaining. Yeah. Mike, what do you think? I wonder how much
 of, I think I agree. Absolutely. I think it was one of the lamest years in a long time.
 But I got to say, I got to ask all of us how much of that had to do with this 2020, this crap
 whole of a year that we just came out of. Sure. And I thought one of the best spots made light of
 that, the Bud Light Seltzer and where life do as you lemon, you make lemonade. Brilliant. Absolutely.
 I love that. But I think a lot of what we saw as a result of the year that we just came out of.
 Yeah. And continues, frankly, but how do you feel overall?
 I mean, the game was kind of boring. I kind of took a zone out of the football game.
 Again, after a half time, I was like, yeah, this game's over. The boy Patrick's not having fun anymore.
 His line couldn't defend against a, you know, a group of senior citizens.
 The whole game. I think all four of us could have gotten through that line.
 Yeah. I think so.
 I will say watching Patrick. I mean, he was like horizontal, you know, whole body.
 That was cool. He threw the ball 40. I mean, and the guy dropped it. I was like, how do you get,
 how do you throw from that angle? His face after that was.
 I could have been telling you.
 That's the, in Patrick's, like, he's the nicest guy.
 Yeah. And that was the most each shit look you'll ever see out of him.
 Like, what the hell?
 Yeah.
 I feel for the guy. He was trying to do it all on his own.
 Yeah.
 You just can't.
 But I mean, yeah, but like, that's why I mean, I was not surprised by like the amount of like nostalgia.
 But maybe I guess the extent of the nostalgia push was like a little surprising.
 And it just seemed everyone was kind of trying to do the whole like grab celebs with built-in audiences.
 So I was surprised by the amount of social media influencers or like celebs.
 I think culturally we're finally like recognizing YouTubers and like TikTokers and stuff as like
 actual celebrities in the like TV world, which is like a lot of times a YouTuber is going to be
 far more like popular than like a TV actor movie actor stuff like that.
 So that was that was interesting from my perspective because a lot of them kind of had to follow up
 like social media tactics. So like they gave David David Dobrik the like Mountain Dew car.
 Like, so that was kind of fun.
 But like, it felt like everyone was just kind of phoning it in at the same time of like,
 yeah, remember that remember when things were good back in the day of these old ads?
 Right.
 We're not going to make any new ones.
 We're not going to do anything to make things new or exciting or innovative.
 But let's just, let's just like get some memories in.
 Yeah, I thought it was a man overall.
 We talked a little pre episode about that.
 But I just, it felt safe.
 It felt like no one really knew what tone to take.
 So to Tyler's point, they defaulted to humor, which is never a bad place.
 Maybe I want to be entertained, which is good.
 But it felt, it just felt flat.
 There were highlights and we'll get into some of our favorites here shortly.
 But it just felt flat for me.
 And I don't know if it was a combination of the games and the ads.
 But I just, it did make me wonder
 about the strategies of where you fall.
 And I guess I don't know how much you can dictate.
 I know you can choose quarters and things like that.
 But depending on the spot that you became before or after,
 I think can sometimes dictate your success.
 Because I found myself like when a really shitty ad would run,
 like one that I wasn't interested in, I kind of tuned out.
 And then I halfway didn't pay attention to one that was actually pretty good.
 The next one.
 And then, you know, it's like, okay, I catch my attention.
 I don't know if there's any.
 My brain would probably tell you something, Tyler, I don't know.
 Absolutely.
 Well, 100%.
 Well, that's something we've done a lot of research on too,
 is coming from the perspective of understanding context.
 Context is so important in how people respond to things.
 Because there's flow, right?
 If I show you the same advertisement on Facebook versus TV,
 you're going to have a very different response to it, right?
 And the same thing applies to an emotional game,
 like the Super Bowl, where you know, you have various like ebbs and flows.
 And some advertisers are going to be lucky enough
 to be behind like some big play or touchdown.
 That's going to impact their brand in a certain way.
 Whereas like, if the game gets boring, you know,
 people are going to tune out and have a very different response.
 And this is all dictated by what is influencing
 how we're responding to things in real time.
 It's almost like, you know, you asked me about neuroscience on a beach
 versus neuroscience like in this context,
 we're going to have very different responses to it.
 Like if we're on the beach, you're like, what the fuck?
 Why do you want to talk to me?
 Yeah, I don't need you around.
 But if we're in this context, you're like more engaged, right?
 So, you know, that has a massive impact on how people are responding as well.
 And I think the fact that the game was out of hand
 by the time we got to halfway through the second quarter,
 everybody else who had spent five and a half million dollars on their advertisements
 beyond the second quarter, we're screwed over.
 Yeah, yeah, but that's always been true too.
 You know, I think about, you know, one of my favorite ads,
 and I'm incredibly biased because I mean,
 huge Springsteen fan was, you know, the spot,
 the spot that, you know, he was in for, for Jeep.
 And it came in the fourth quarter
 after really lousy game.
 And I was thinking, how many people are going to react to this?
 Because they didn't see it at that point.
 They'd lost interest in the game and they'd moved on.
 Well, I saw where, you know, they did the top five searched.
 In the Jeep ad, I think was two or three in searches,
 but I think it's because nobody saw it.
 Because they were watching the game at that point.
 And it was Springsteen.
 Yeah, with that too.
 And my only issue, it felt contrived to me.
 Like I was like at the time, like it was like trying to make a point,
 to make a point or something, trying to be somewhat
 in the throes of understanding how people feel
 and wanting to bring people to get, I don't know.
 It just, it became contrived to me.
 I don't know.
 You know, I'd like to take, because Adrieque was said it,
 like it just kind of rang hollow.
 Yeah.
 In a weird way, like it was so deep, it was hollow.
 How do we're trying to be deep?
 They're looking at the, like, the film and it's like,
 like, oh, I guess someone needs to do a come together,
 like, ad, I guess we'll do that one.
 It's like, it's interesting because donor wrote that spot.
 And the head of Jeep marketing
 had been trying to sell his huge Springsteen fan, I guess,
 to John Landau.
 Springsteen's producer for a long time
 and Bruce finally bid on it and loved it.
 And it was really well written.
 It was a small idea, the middle of the country.
 But yeah, you're right.
 It's the Super Bowl, it's commercials.
 I got as much as I adorned Worcester, Bruce Springsteen.
 It was kind of disingenuous.
 Yeah.
 You know, they didn't overtly try and sell Jeep,
 and they did sign off, you know,
 the re-united states of America,
 but it was a Jeep spot.
 Yeah. Right.
 And I don't mind seriousness.
 You know, I don't mind, like,
 my favorite spot last year was the Google spot
 doing Google Assistant and the old man
 giving himself the reminders, Loretta.
 That's my, that's what that was the best ad,
 like a million miles that last year.
 And it wasn't funny, but it was so,
 I mean, I was like crying in my seat.
 I mean, in the middle of the seat, like,
 if you can move that emotion in me when I'm watching
 a football game, I'm munching on notches,
 like, but barbecue sauce all over my face,
 you know, like, I'm left through four other commercials,
 and then I'm like tearing up in 30 seconds,
 you've done your job.
 Yeah.
 This is the one spot that came close,
 I thought, but I think I got a corner.
 Toyota?
 Yes, absolutely.
 Toyota, yeah.
 Yeah, that was nice.
 I was, I have to confess though,
 I saw the preview of it last week,
 but I thought it was a wonderful story.
 I mean, the art direction was wonderful.
 And, but I wonder how many people
 who was really lost on it?
 Right.
 You know, well, well, I think, I think Toyota did a good job,
 but they were able to solidify that spot
 early in the game before it got out.
 Yeah, yeah.
 And this was a very unique super bowl too,
 because not only do we have this situation where,
 you know, we have unique times
 that people are going to talk about
 within their advertising.
 This is the first super when we're talking about context.
 This is the first super bowl where a lot of people
 can't get together like they used to.
 Right.
 Back in the day, when we were consulting
 on Super Bowl ads, it was all about like,
 look, you got to tell a visual story.
 You're going to tell something that doesn't require audio,
 because 90% of the time,
 people are going to be at a party,
 probably drinking and probably, you know,
 just with a bunch of friends.
 And you're, you're going to be drowned out.
 This is the first time that attention was very important.
 And I think this super bowl advertising
 in this context actually failed
 at taking advantage of that opportunity
 to have people's attention.
 Because you can actually like take a message
 and run with it.
 I think the best, the best version of that
 was like some of the social stuff
 that happened on the side.
 And I think that was the coolest part
 of this super bowl that I want to talk about as well.
 You know, not the ads themselves,
 not the five and a half million dollars
 that say in Heizerbush would, would, would pay
 for a 30 second spot.
 But it's the social networking
 that the Twitter ads that were released
 like during, during this time
 that people were retweeting and talking about.
 Because people had more time to go on Twitter.
 They have a lot more time to go on social.
 And those were the things that were trending
 on Twitter last night was the things
 that were social based.
 Things that people weren't,
 and weren't served during the Super Bowl itself.
 Yeah, and that's a great point about attention.
 Because with COVID, you still didn't,
 you had fewer problems.
 There were some idiots out there
 like on top of each other.
 But most, most reasonable people were, you know,
 at smaller gatherings or home.
 Right.
 And like me, I mean, even,
 even I'm in the ad business.
 And I'm normally paying way more attention
 probably to the commercials than the average person
 beyond just the humor of it
 or whatever the interest level would be.
 I definitely was in a more,
 because I wasn't at a party.
 I wasn't like, I was definitely at the great insight.
 And I think even, it even makes me actually think
 they failed more.
 I don't know.
 Like they had a moment in time
 that to do something bold.
 You know, and I don't even,
 that's where I thought like the Jeep
 was like trying to be bold.
 Like it was just like trying too hard or something.
 Like that was what it was though.
 But yeah, there's missed opportunities.
 But I don't know.
 I know Josh, you picked up on some of the social stuff.
 Yeah, I mean, I was, I mean,
 as soon as the game was getting boring,
 I was spending, I was watching the commercials,
 but they're in the game.
 I was scrolling through TikTok.
 And I saw Tide had a bunch of kind of like,
 200 to like two million followers,
 like channels on TikTok.
 Like they made their own hoodie with their own face on it.
 And they were getting that dirty and like talking about it.
 I think they had probably like 10 or 15
 like different influencers use that.
 And I saw like David Dobrik had the Mountain Dew car.
 He gave it away to one of his buddies.
 And like, that's like a guaranteed like
 5 million extra impressions right there.
 Right.
 And then people are going to be sharing that too.
 Like I think it's the extensions
 and then like the Instagram ads of like clips of the ads.
 So that you recognize it when you see it on the TV.
 I think it just helps reinforce.
 But it's definitely interesting.
 Well, I mean, if people look at,
 so this morning in preparation too,
 was just looking at some of the winners of the Super Bowl.
 And the winners of the Super Bowl were not people
 who paid money to advertise in the Super Bowl.
 The winners of the Super Bowl were people
 who ran social campaigns, you know,
 or didn't even like bother to like very, very legacy
 Super Bowl advertisers who decided not to advertise
 and just focus on social like Budweiser,
 you know, had a more of an impact on people's mindset
 about their brand than the advertisers themselves.
 Yeah, totally.
 Well, there's when an ad's not an ad.
 Yeah.
 Right. Exactly.
 I mean, we've seen that before of people who,
 I mean, they did as commercials too,
 but like when they went around the Super Bowl,
 but didn't actually like the old spice,
 like, look at your man.
 I look at you.
 Like, look back at your man.
 Like, that was not a Super Bowl ad.
 It was, it ran before Super Bowl and it ran after.
 But a lot of people remember as that,
 because it was there and then Instagram and YouTube
 was really heavy with them too.
 I think capturing that like,
 capturing that second screen of like,
 what's in your hand during the commercials
 or during the boring parts of the game.
 Like, again, if you're at a party or if you're home alone,
 like you're going to be on your phone
 way more often either way.
 Would you think, would everybody think of the reddit execution
 of the five second ad?
 It was, I think it was, so we, I think it was great.
 I think they did a really good job of disrupting,
 because we're sitting here talking about it right now.
 It had a pretty, pretty awesome impact.
 And at the timing was perfect too.
 When we're talking about timing and reddit in general,
 how about the Robin Hood ad?
 Which was, which the Robin Hood ad was the second to last
 on the ad meter, right, you know, given the recent context
 of what Robin Hood has influenced with GameStop, right?
 What do we think about that?
 I thought they either, I liked that they stayed in in a way,
 but I hope that they were going to not be tone deaf
 and they were, because they didn't change it.
 I think that was the spot they were going to run two months ago.
 It was, it was in the can, like, and I would have done
 something more organic.
 I would have either apologized or like, you know,
 you know, like, I don't know, but you can't
 fucking call yourself Robin Hood and, and be,
 and be like blocking, you know, the, the,
 I mean, like, you know, like, it's like the complete antithesis
 of what you've positioned yourself.
 Right.
 And we're trickle down trading.
 And instead of like just hoping that maybe not enough people
 know about you and running a general awareness
 brand spot about how your Robin Hood is just bullshit.
 Yeah, they were tone deaf.
 I think one of the issues too is like Robin Hood would have
 had to screen lock that pre the issue that we ran into.
 So they would have had a screen lock that with CBS last week.
 So one of the things that we're seeing too is like, you know,
 they probably had this ad bought already.
 Yeah.
 Then, you know, found themselves in a bowl of shit.
 Yeah, and, you know, just like,
 reacted in the best way possible.
 But, you know, at the same time, like the reaction was not as
 positive as they could have, you know what honestly,
 and you've not to belabor Springstain and G,
 but they just shot that spot last week.
 Yeah, yeah.
 You know, Robin Hood could turn around
 done something really simple.
 Yeah, very short period of time.
 Yeah, I would have, you know,
 didn't make a gesture or do something and,
 and just to put your head in the sand and I like it didn't happen.
 You know, which is as soon as what they did.
 We live in a day and age where, you know,
 and I built an agency around it about this notion of real time,
 the ability to impact and, you know,
 the fact that, and in TV now, like you said, the Jeep,
 they recorded, they did it last week.
 Every time.
 Like that capability is here.
 Like you can do these things and turn these things around
 and leverage the insights.
 Because this is what's happening is we now have the power
 to act upon these things that are happening so quickly
 and to just not take advantage of that just felt
 like a complete lost opportunity.
 Well, I think it's a good point, Ryan.
 When we talk about just reactivity and ability
 to react on these things in general,
 it's like, I don't want to make it way too massive
 about like TV is a dying breed.
 But you guys do a really good job of like taking
 advantage of social and taking advantage of, you know,
 being really incredible social marketers on Instagram,
 on TikTok, etc, etc.
 You know, as you think about TV and how we advertise on TV,
 one, we're losing viewership.
 Two, you lose reactivity.
 On social, you can react immediately.
 Right.
 And, you know, something that happens within, you know,
 the week that you have to be the super black
 and like into the Super Bowl is going to make a massive impact
 on like how people respond to you.
 And like the example of this is Robin Hood in general,
 it's like they had to like lock their ad last week,
 had a very poor response to it.
 Whereas on social, you can be very more dynamic
 in the way you ever dying to take advantage of the times
 because we're in a point in time where we're adapting
 every single day to the news that we see.
 And, you know, we start to think about,
 and this is one thing too,
 that we have to address is,
 is the Super Bowl even worth it anymore?
 You know what I mean?
 Like, we may have reached,
 but do we have actual effectiveness?
 And do we actually see ROI on this?
 Yeah, I think,
 I did an, Josh and I did an episode
 and I effectively called Mass Marketing Dead.
 So I think everyone,
 everyone that looks at Redcast,
 that's no for us then on this.
 You know.
 It was a humble plug.
 But no, it's like,
 but that's what, again,
 the reach is incredible.
 And the awareness you can get,
 I still think there's value.
 I don't know if the ROI pays off,
 but you know, you get 10 billion people.
 I mean, I don't know what the numbers exactly are.
 Yeah, it's so,
 so last night I saw projections of 148 million.
 Last year was 98.4 million.
 So, I mean, you get that, you get that reach,
 but again, you know.
 But you got to use it.
 I think it's still,
 I think it just goes back more to the execution.
 Like, it's like,
 it's not enough to just have that reach
 and throw something up there,
 say for it otherwise.
 And I mean, as much as I hate it,
 and I'm sure everyone did,
 but the Oatly thing with the guy singing,
 which I think was stupid and bad on purpose.
 You know?
 But like, I at least respected it
 for trying to do something different,
 you know, in its own way.
 It's much as I hated it.
 I hated it.
 I was about to bring that up.
 But it's like, finally someone is like,
 I was so refreshing,
 because like, finally someone is being like,
 yeah, we're not gonna be for everyone.
 It's like, like they have like liquid death water company.
 They sell water and they're calling themselves liquid death,
 and it's got a skull on the can.
 And it's just like,
 yeah, they're not trying to appeal to everyone.
 Yes.
 I respected that more than the jeep spot.
 So what does that tell you?
 I mean.
 Well, Republican.
 I mean, the Oatly ad too was just such a,
 I mean, that was also one of the worst rated ads.
 And I think, I think when we think about it,
 it's like, why was that?
 Like, but also is being bad,
 also kind of okay for your brand.
 Yeah, I mean,
 yes, we're talking about it.
 Exactly, 100%.
 And we go back to some of the work that we've done with Pepsi.
 I know that, you know,
 for example, we tested the Kendall Jenner ad after they had
 the big blow up.
 But one of the things is that it worked.
 We think about the politics as well.
 Like, you know, is negative publicity bad publicity,
 or is it just publicity, right?
 Because the things that we're not going to talk about
 are the things that are going to be ranked
 between number five and number 45 in the ad meter.
 Things we're going to talk about are ranked, you know,
 65 and below or one through five, right?
 And, you know, I think, you know, only being one of them is like,
 maybe was it so bad that it was good and was it a creative like,
 was it actually maybe more effective?
 Because it was bad is the thing that I'm looking forward to
 looking into next week.
 I'm looking forward to it too.
 And if I was a betting man, I bet you would test it
 nearly where?
 Well, if that's if I'm phrasing that correctly, Tyler,
 my brain analytics.
 Yeah.
 I mean, you're going to notice I'd be noticing the the bottles
 in the store like way sooner now.
 Like, oh, yeah, you're going to see it.
 Like, I think it elevated their brand awareness and it was
 tear, but I think that I think they were.
 I think it was brilliant.
 I think they knew exactly they knew it was bad.
 Part of me, when I first saw it, I was like, oh, God,
 this guy just was the CEO and wanted to be in his own spot.
 And then I watched it a little longer.
 And I'm like, they know exactly what they're doing right here.
 They know it's bad, but they want it to be bad.
 Well, I know, I know it's the little super spreader.
 I was at the everyone kind of stopped.
 What the, but there was silence finally.
 I watched it ended.
 Which I think that's my that's my favorite kind of humor is like,
 yeah, there's the the self-aware like Wayne's world humor or whatever.
 But like, I feel like the true humor is where people are like,
 what is happening right now?
 Yeah.
 But maybe my brain's broken.
 Can you scan that Tyler?
 Is that a thing we can we could say the time of money it is broken?
 Yeah.
 But I think one thing one thing to kind of a drive there's a couple things,
 but the one thing to address like first and foremost is like rocket mortgage for the first time
 was able to get one and two on the ad meter, which is which is incredibly like,
 you know, you've never seen that on the ad meter.
 And this is how brands think about the Super Bowl as well.
 It's like from the clients we've worked with, they want to win the ad meter.
 And the ad meter is like such a forgive my language bullshit.
 Like understanding of how things like how people respond to things.
 It's just like, do you like it or do you not like it?
 I think in the day, people are not going to remember rocket mortgage.
 Tracy Morgan is going to get most of the, you know, like a traffic on this.
 Like he's, yeah, exactly.
 Like he's the one who's getting followers today.
 Rocket mortgage is not getting anybody knew who's going to like get rocket mortgage today.
 You know, um, so,
 what could I, what I heard, just talking about one and two on the ad meter.
 So I was watching one of the news shows this morning.
 Full disclosure, I do watch television.
 And, and they were talking about how they were using rocket mortgage effectively
 used other influencers, other people that are rocket mortgage influencers,
 Ricky Fowler, to encourage all their millions of followers to go to ad meter and vote
 for, for the Tracy Morgan ads.
 They're sprints.
 Sure.
 Exactly.
 And that's, I mean, the system.
 And that's how that's how, you know, people are also going to, you know,
 utilize this as, you know, a win for them.
 But again, that's, that's what comes back to what we do is like, at the end of the day,
 if we're using influencers to vote for something, if we're using celebrities to actually like,
 you know, try to communicate some sort of, um, some sort of like emotional, like, you know,
 responds, this celebrity is going to be the person who actually drives impact.
 Well, we, what we can do as a neuroscience company, understanding how people respond to
 information is if you don't, if you don't communicate your brand, then you're completely, you know,
 you're completely screwed, right?
 Yeah.
 Exactly.
 You've got it at the moment in time there, like just making something that's funny and throwing
 your logo at the end, I just don't think you're getting it done.
 Right, right.
 Absolutely.
 Absolutely.
 And, and I think that was, that was what we saw.
 And what we consistently see in Super Bowl creative is the inability to integrate a brand
 into your advertising to make your brand affable and, you know, relatable.
 You know what I mean?
 I think one of the, one of the best examples of this that I've seen in my work is
 you know, last year there was a Colgate ad with Luke Wilson.
 And he was talking about how he had really bad breath and that was the whole joke.
 But what, what people do is they try to create a story.
 They try to create a film in 30 to 60 seconds and then throw their brand at the end.
 But at that point, people already turned up.
 People already like, okay, I got the story.
 I'm done.
 But I got, I got, I got, I got, I got to take issue with that for just a moment and granted.
 Sure.
 Absolutely.
 I've been in this business a long, long time and I've had to forget everything I knew over the
 last 25 years just to, to immerse myself in digital.
 But I still think people want to be entertained, want to be sucked in.
 And that's, that's, I've, I always, I was taught and I believe that you need to entertain people
 or inform people, draw them in and suck them in.
 I think that Colgate's spot was brilliant because I watched it all the way to the
 bloody ankles.
 It was interesting.
 It was fun.
 It was entertaining and rules and YouTube about you've got to get your name in there in the first
 five seconds and Bob.
 I think that's the way to turn people off.
 Right.
 No, I, I grew the under percent.
 So, so there's two things there.
 And they're coming from a nerd thing from our perspective as well is I hear this all the time too.
 Because a lot of the insights that we deliver as a company is how do we optimize our advertising?
 A lot of the times it's all about taking advantage of the most impactful scenes in an app,
 which is not dictated by timing.
 It's not going to be the first five seconds or the last five seconds.
 It's not like the middle 15, whatever it may be.
 You have to find those scenes that people engage with and throw your brand on top of that.
 So what, but the problem that we deal with as an industry is
 humans have become accustomed to being very turned off by advertising.
 We don't want to be like the normal consumer like we're all advertising folks.
 We love advertising.
 It's fun for us, but you know, like everybody else doesn't love that at all.
 So what we see is we have this thing called conception from closure where the last
 50 years of advertising if that more has been very formulaic.
 It's 27 seconds of advertising or a story and then you have three seconds of branding.
 The brain has been conditioned to shut off right before branding and people will just like
 not remember what's going on, right?
 You have to take advantage of those moments and those elements that are very impactful
 that allows you to put your brand in the best light.
 And the formula for advertising needs to change.
 And that's the thing that we're trying to get to.
 We need to change because when you look at data, for example, like a very simple example of this
 as well, is when people like, there've been many eye tracking studies done when people go on
 to Google, when people go on to Google, they're going to immediately jump to the fourth or fifth
 search result because they know the first four or five are ads.
 And I do that.
 And like, and this is how we change this.
 And like, we got to be better at brand integration.
 We got to be better at like telling a story about our brands.
 Sure, you can use celebrities, but don't make sure that your celebrities are not taking from
 your brand itself.
 Make sure that they're not attention vampires.
 And you have to tell a very positive story about your brand that released your grid, right?
 You can make a sweet cute viral video that will be fine.
 And like, you know, people will like engage with it.
 And like, you might be lucky if your brand is integrated with it.
 But as a brand itself, as, you know, we've changed it
 numerologically as well through one COVID, through two quarantines, through three, like,
 you know, over the years being conditioned to this stuff, you have to be able to tell a story
 that consumers can engage with because the biggest consumer in the world,
 that the consumers that are going to be able to like drive some sort of like response are the
 people who are going to be like, feel like it's a personal thing to them.
 And that's why Facebook advertising is really good.
 That's why Instagram advertising is really good.
 It's because it's embedded within a very personal space.
 And that's how we can like, fix TV advertising is like by driving some sort of personal connection.
 Unfortunately, you know, the old, the we're still a lot of the big TV ads that we see are going to be
 dictated by the old, you know, Don Draper, like,
 average, not that old.
 The old Don Draper, like, aesthetic though, which is like, I'm going to pay $5 million to have
 this like really great celebrity. You know, that's not going to convert anything.
 It's only going to get Drake more listens on Spotify.
 It's not going to make sure that you are selling State Farm, you know what I mean?
 I thought we saw it a little bit as the only thing I liked about the Wayne's World,
 a spot, but I thought someone was going to be smart enough to do a TikTok ad for the ad,
 like using everything that is a TikTok, a TikTok video, not ads, excuse me,
 but just that whole notion edited, used, done as TikTok, I think it would have performed well.
 And I think, because again, the tension spans there.
 And obviously with the, with the, the brand integrated.
 I think that's the biggest issue is, yeah, it's great and all, like,
 the same thing with, with Rocket Mortgage, like, it was fun and it definitely,
 they were trying to relate it to the brand and I get it.
 There was all, you're almost whatever it was, you know, is it almost a parachute or whatever.
 Tracey Mortgage.
 Tracey Mortgage.
 Tracey Mortgage.
 Yeah, but it's like integrating the brand in a way that keeps interest and holds interest,
 but drives engagement and I think that's where it failed the most.
 Like, I just feel like there was just this opportunity loss and I think that's kind of like the
 game itself. So it's like, the promise that it was supposed to be.
 So you know, we do write talent on a couple of counts.
 So yes, those spots, I think we're going to go all agree with the exception, maybe reddit,
 right? We're formulaic.
 25 seconds, 45 seconds, three to five seconds of branding, right?
 The other thing we always talk about, and which I still think is effective,
 is reach and frequency, right?
 And a lot of these ads are one-offs.
 You're never really going to see them again unless it's the, you know,
 the 20 greatest Super Bowl spots of all time, you know, the Friday before the big game.
 So, you know, what social media in this brave new world gives us the ability to take that stuff
 and to showcase it on TikTok and Instagram and, you know, get Tracy Morgan to post.
 I mean, there's so many venues now to continue the campaign rather than just one and done.
 Yeah, but like, think of the last thing I'll say, like, real fit, fast-power, like,
 think about like two of my favorite Budweiser spots have ever,
 Bud, the frogs. Why? They're, they're using the name of the brand, the, the, the frogs going,
 Bud. Well, and then the Bud Bowl with the bottles with, uh, with the guy calling the announcer
 of the game, the bottles are playing football against each other. It's like, you're using the product,
 you're bringing it in. I know that's like straight line, but they were entertaining.
 You know, you know, so, so we were having a, we were having a conversation because we got a,
 you know, we got a lot of very young people working here and, uh, and I, I, I,
 I asked him if they, if they know what, what the spot was that kind of kicked off this, this,
 this Super Bowl Sunday commercial, you know, gala. Do you remember what it was? What spot it was?
 Well, wait a second. So, so Super Bowl Sunday had its, had its start. This,
 this fascination with watching not just, you know, watching it not just for the game,
 but also for the commercials. Yep. Right. What was the iconic brand? What was the famous spot
 that kind of kicked this whole thing? I think the Budweiser Clyde sales, no? No. I guess that same
 thing, Tyler. Uh, Mike did this to me. I guess the exact thing. Yeah. And it, it was, it was high five.
 1984 Apple. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Oh, that's, you know, uh, I mean, I'm dressed like Steve Jobs.
 Yeah, right. Is that a turtle that you have along? I mean, shy day, shy day creative,
 Ridley Scott directed it. It was a freaking epic. Yes. You know, and your draw drop. I'm,
 well, I'm an ad, you know, ad nerd, my draw drop. Of course. And it was phenomenal. And it,
 and it's still a phenomenal spot. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, also the same thing goes. I think,
 I think it's a really good point too. It's like some of these, some of these iconic, um,
 you know, just, just things that people, people, and brands start to, you know, own, for
 example, Budweiser, this was the first year that they did not advertise in the Super Bowl,
 which, you know, goes back to the initial point that we were talking about, which is like,
 you know, this is a unique Super Bowl where like ads didn't sell out until the week before.
 Right. So Sam Adams did a regional spot in Boston, in New York, like in the Northeast,
 using the client's dales and showing the client's dales, like, running away from their,
 they're like, you know, I don't know. Exactly. But here's the thing. It didn't do shit for
 Sam Adams to be honest. Like, I think it really does a lot for Budweiser as a brand. And it shows
 how influential Budweiser is. Like the fact that Budweiser had a ton of news, like every, like,
 I was, I was looking at this like before the Super Bowl, too. It's like, it wasn't just at
 age and at week that we're talking about Budweiser not advertising for the first time in years,
 in over 20 years. It was the Detroit news. It was the New York Times. It was like the Boston
 Globe. It was the Wall Street Journal all talking about the fact that Budweiser wasn't advertising.
 That was very, that was very incredible. And that, that, that goes back in. It's like, you know,
 the amount of money that people have, like, obviously paid for advertising and Super Bowl is great,
 obviously. But, you know, social and, you know, active, like, you know, investing money
 elsewhere, like Budweiser invested their money into, you know, into, and what was it,
 COVID researcher or something like that, right? Vaccinations, vaccinations, right? So, so it's like,
 that is what's going to make a bigger impact, especially in a year like this. And that's why you
 have so many brands that have backed out as well. But it was funny. We had our team meeting this
 morning and I joked to, to not have been in the Super Bowl between the, the, the Seltzers and
 the Clyde Stales being shown on Sam Adams, like, they sure self felt like they were in the Super Bowl.
 But, yeah, they have the, they have the, and the PR, I will say that I told, I joked someone
 last week, the impressions, if there was anything that could be, could match the impressions,
 they would have gotten buying the Super Bowl. This PR play is probably super seeding it for all the
 press coverage you just talked about, Tyler. It's got to be in the hundreds of millions of impressions,
 the PR they've gotten from it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then at the end of the day too,
 it's like, what is an impression? Yeah. It doesn't actually make an impression, which is again,
 like, the whole crux of what we do, too. It's like to bring it back to your own sense. Like, no,
 short, I can blast past this, like, post on Instagram or on TikTok. But what we've seen is,
 you know, is that actually going to drive some sort of memory and coding response? Because half the
 time when I'm on TikTok or on Instagram or when any of us are, we're just kind of like brain dead
 in mind. It's like, what's the, what's the, what's the best platform for us to? Yeah, exactly. So,
 as we're kind of ranting out here with this episode, any, I'll kind of roundtable this one as
 well, any kind of final thoughts on, you know, where we think, you know, Super Bowl ads in general,
 their impact, we've, we got into that a little bit, but I'll kind of roundtable with any,
 any final thoughts, Josh, start with you. I definitely could see it being a bigger trend of
 bringing in more YouTube celebrities and more, I guess social media people, I think people are
 still sleeping on how big YouTube is. It's like the second most trafficked website period.
 There's just, like, I think there's, there's huge, like, celebrities, people with built-in
 audiences who spend hundreds of dollars a month on merch for a single human. You tie them in a brand,
 they're gonna buy from that brand. They all have rich parents and stuff like that. Yeah. I can see
 that happening a lot more. Hopefully a little. I think that's really good for me. I would say it's
 like, as you think about and start an injector, it's like, you know, it's like, as you think about,
 you know, one, what we've talked about earlier today too is, you know, the nostalgia factor,
 like we're bringing in like the Bill Murray's, the brother for talking about last year's Super Bowl,
 or the John Traultas, right? And the brands that are bringing in current celebrities that are
 current YouTube celebrities that are actually getting more views than anybody else is very,
 very smart. I think that's a really, really good point, Josh. Definitely. And I can see a lot more,
 like, music celebrities coming into. We've seen this over the past two years of
 Cardi B and Travis Scott being some of the biggest celebrities we've had period. They're just massive
 and people are using them a lot more. I guess it's all the built-in audiences. I'd like to see a
 little bit smarter use of nostalgia because I'd like to see some new stuff. I don't want to keep
 dwelling in the past. That's why how they would keep making sequels. Yeah. I keep seeing all those
 articles of like all the current celebrities just look like old celebrities. They just keep
 hiring, they just keep hiring new actors who look like the same people. Kind of freaking out
 to show this. Yeah. Eight final thoughts from you, Mike. Yeah, you know, it's the fact that,
 yes, it took a while to sell out in terms of media this year, but it's sold out and it still speaks
 to the fact that it is, it is, it is an unofficial American holiday and people do tune in to watch
 not only the game, but the spots. I don't think that's going to change. And when it does is the
 year that my beloved New York Jets are back in the Super Bowl. And I'll probably be dead.
 We're up definitely. Tyler, any final thoughts? I know we're teasing next week. We're going to
 see some of the results from neuro insights studies that you guys are doing on some of those ads,
 but anything is it related to the Super Bowl or neuroanalytics? 100 percent. Well, first things
 first that the Jets will never make it back. Hey, you're in my hometown there. I show some respect
 on this. Hey, let's go. I'll go. I'll go. I'll go. I'll go. But the big thing. I think there's
 a couple of things. I think Mikey brought it up too. It's like I as as sometimes negative as it
 may sound in maybe like the way we present like the investment that it takes to get a Super Bowl
 ad in. The biggest thing is you got to make sure that it works. And understanding storytelling,
 understanding how people respond to things is the most important thing, which is what we're
 going to talk about next week. But in general, understanding the context, understanding how we can
 actually drive home a brand message is going to be the most important thing as we go forward. Because
 the Super Bowl is always going to get a ton of viewers. It's always going to be the highest reach.
 It's always going to be the most expensive. And the thing that really really pisses me off is when
 advertisers spend a ton of money on, you know, their ad that's going to be in the Super Bowl and it
 doesn't work. It doesn't just it doesn't resonate with people. The ads that work are the ones that
 actually translate brand message. And that's how you're actually converting customers. Because otherwise
 it's just fodder for people to talk about. You know what I mean? Here here. So, you know, I think at
 the end of the day, it's like that's what we're trying to do. That's what we do as a company. It's like
 we understand storytelling. We want to make sure that like your story is being told in the most
 effective way. And that's what we'll talk about next week. Cool. Tyler, we're can everyone
 find more information on both yourself and Neuro Insights. Sure. So I can be found on LinkedIn
 via Neuro Insights. So you can find us at Neuro Insights LinkedIn. Also, my LinkedIn profile is
 linked to that. So you can find me there. We also have a Twitter and an Instagram as well
 at Neuro underscore Insights. So, you know, you can find us all over there.
 Great, man. Really appreciate it. The last thing I'll say guys is I challenge people if you're
 listening. It's going to sound self-serving but be radical. Like that if that was my one
 disappointment of it all is like let's push the envelope. I know that we live in a cancel culture
 and I know that it was difficult for brands of of large size to take risks. I respect that. I
 understand it as a business owner. But we have to if I want it you have to remain did vigilant
 in being creative, being thoughtful. But you've got we've got to continue to push the envelope
 in what we do, how we do and how we use the power of social media but bringing all of these
 things together. So I look forward to looking at the results next week. Tyler and talking more
 appreciated Mike, appreciate it Josh. You know where to find us. We're at the.rad.cast on
 Instagram and theradcast.com and anytime and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much.
 Yo guys, what's up Ryan offered here. Thanks so much for listening. Really appreciate it. Do
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