Neurology in Marketing: The Art of Human Understanding with The Science of Execution

 Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. It's Ryan offered
 your host and we're here in the lovely Greenville, South Carolina studios. The Radcast home
 which is Radical the Radist-Badest Coolest Marketing Agency on the planet. Just saying that. Just
 in case you didn't know. So I'm here with Somrott Somrott again, head of Client Solutions
 at Neuro Insight and we're gonna break down Neuro in marketing and if you're going, what
 is Neuro? Well, you're about to get brainy, my friend. Somrott, what's up, my man?
 How's it going, Ryan? It's great to be back.
 Hey man, I really enjoyed our TikTok discussion and I'm stoked to get into the impact of the
 brain in marketing and maybe even more broadly than that. Just some ways that brands should
 be thinking about content creation and branding across the ecosystem of social media and
 the likes. So I'm stoked to have you on, man. Absolutely, my pleasure. We've always thought
 that the decisions we make in life are conscious. Like from the moment we wake up and we say I
 want to have a cup of coffee to what we're going to have for lunch, to how we're going to celebrate
 the afternoon. But the truth is, 90% of our decision making is happening in our subconscious.
 And our subconscious is that meta-computer behind our brain that is constantly processing
 every piece of information you're getting. Something as small as a little watermark logo,
 a piece of paper that you get in direct mail to all the ads that you're seeing that you don't
 even realize that you remember. And the subconscious is taking that information,
 filtering it down, saying, all right, this feels good, this feels engaging, this we should pay a
 little bit more attention to. And that then gets transferred to the conscious brain when the time
 to make a decision comes up. So when you ask somebody, hey, what are you going to have for dinner?
 And they are like, I don't know, I'll see what I'm in the mood for. What they're basically saying
 is my subconscious is still trying to figure out what we feel as an individual we want to do.
 And what we're hearing right now that will make me will get me in the mood.
 Then when I tell you that I'm going to have pizza today, I'm going to rationalize it with,
 well, yeah, because pizza is my favorite food. It's been a long day. I just want something
 easy. And the rationalization process starts. Are we talking about the voices in my head?
 Are we talking about marketing? I don't know, sir. I think the voices in your head are the
 impact of multiple subconscious going on. Oh, man, it's getting scary already.
 That's what Neuro does is we try to understand the subconscious of the brain and how that is
 trying to understand the world. And from a marketer's perspective, that is in essence what
 you are trying to communicate with. And for the longest time, we've always thought about it as
 let me give you a rational argument or let me give you a lifestyle based argument and hopefully
 you'll consider me. But it's not the same. And especially now with things completely fragmenting,
 our world is no longer the pyramid world of marketing where it was I started at the
 apex with TV advertising and then I broadcast across channels. It's an ecosystem style marketing
 where everything feeds everything else. And in that world, the subconscious is more
 pressured to make decisions faster. And then the stories that are the simplest that are the most
 engaging that they're the most touching and the most relevant. Those are the stories that
 went in for brands. That is what you're trying to get through. And that's where we come in.
 Yeah. And historically, you know, I have sat through in a in a I called a separate life,
 but having been in this game for 20 years and in living in the rat race that is New York City,
 where I know that's home in some part for you is I have sat through more focus groups than I care
 to admit for a number of brands as we as you just described, you try to ask people, you know,
 what they think about an ad or an advertisement in a rational way. You framed it up perfect.
 So you ask people, hey, what do you know, we're going to show you five ads and you know,
 we want you to get your natural reactions to them. And it's always felt a built a bit flawed.
 You know, I felt like depending on the client that we were working with, we could work the room,
 whichever way we wanted, you know, what concept we really want to sell in here. I can almost tell
 what was going to happen before it happened. I go figure. But again, asking people what they think
 about an ad in the moment with no other, you know, variables, no other metrics involved,
 always felt very flawed. And you are right, because I would be sitting as your opponent
 in that same room coming in from the insights world, where I work for Pepsi and Aniser Busch,
 being like, I'm looking at these concepts. I think some of them have potential.
 Some of them are more important for business reasons. And I know some are the things that the
 creatives love. And if I have six people come into the room every single time, the creatives
 are going to go for the one or two comments that two people have made, the business folks are
 going to come in for the two comments that people are making. And then as an insights person,
 you're trying to figure out what all these six are saying. But when I go to a barber,
 and I say, hey, listen, what do you think about this hairstyle? And will it suit me?
 Well, one, it won't suit me because I don't have much hair left. But the barber or the
 hairstyleist can tell you exactly, you know, based on the texture of your hair, based on their
 own skill set, how it's going to work. If a focus group was conducted with creatives, or with
 business people, and you were asking them for their opinion, I think the focus group would work
 because these are people that are trained to think holistically about the solution.
 When you're talking to somebody who isn't trained in this field,
 you are putting too much pressure on them to be able to articulate what they're feeling
 and then rationalizing that with cause. And in certain things like when you're doing behavioral
 studies, where you're like, hey, what do you do every day? And they're like, well, you know,
 this is my routine. These are the brands I like. This is why I started to choose them.
 That part makes sense because they have built habits. They're the experts in themselves.
 But when you're trying to understand true consumer reaction, you need to go into the subconscious.
 And you need to understand what's happening within the subconscious. And we talked about this,
 the processes are pretty much the same platform to platform. Whether you're talking about
 TV, you're talking about radio, out of home, or social media platforms like TikTok.
 We first have a reaction on, hey, do I live this? And that's your approach with draw
 response taking place. Do I want to lean in and listen more? It is something that we measure.
 Then it goes over to engagement. What am I hearing? Is that actually relevant to me?
 That is also a part of your brain. In fact, we have seen studies where if you're walking down the
 street and you see some of the face that you recognize in New York City out of the millions,
 the engagement part of the brain kicks in saying, hey, I think we recognize them. We should pay
 a little bit more attention. You then sense of feeling of emotion. And all of that,
 then depending on the way the story was told, we'll get into memory. Now, you can either have
 the narrative of the story going to memory where you're like, oh, wow, that was a great story.
 I loved it. I just wish what I knew what what brand it was for, which means the narrative went
 through. Or you can have a story that just gets the brand through. Yeah, I remember, you know,
 I remember this Doritos commercial. It was really fun, superbal. Or you can have a story that
 breaks through both the narrative and on branding. And when you have that, whether it's on TV,
 on radio, on out of home, anywhere, that's when you've created a moment of connection.
 And you can only see that when you're studying all those neuro patterns that we study.
 And over the course of the years that we've been doing this, we've studied over 30,000 ads,
 cross-platforms. We have seen that most brands, even now, are more focused on the brand part of it,
 which is I just want my brand to get through. The creatives are always focused on the narrative
 side of things. And you're hoping this fight will get the story to become better. But most often,
 than not, it actually ends up tilting one way or the other. And I'm sure you have great stories
 on this as well. Oh my God. I'm remembering, I mean, it happens daily, but how do we get our logo
 in there more? That statement alone, I'm not going to name the name, but I remember a certain client
 when I was in the middle of my career. I guess I'm still in the middle of my career. But in the early
 middle of my career, and it's ingrained in my head, we need the logo bigger. We need the logo bigger.
 And when it was a TV spot, can we get the branding showing a little bit sooner? It's the age
 all fight. And creative rights, a nice spot. And you spend, and that's the first couple weeks.
 This is back in the old day. We move a lot quicker now. But first, you know, you write the spot.
 It's really good spot. The client sees it. Then you spend four weeks back and forth. Then
 how much brand we can get into it. And what the client never completely grasps. And you know,
 there's always, it's not that there's a right in a wrong here and coming from the agency perspective.
 But it's more the agency. I think the good agencies and myself, I like, I want to put us in this
 camp. We're not representing ourselves. We're representing the consumer for you. And when you put
 the consumer first, then everything comes together. And what the brands do is they think about
 themselves first. And look, they're trying to sell everyone's got pressure. You've got marketing
 department and marketing spend. And they've got the CMOs, the fastest guy fired at every organization.
 Like I get it. But what they don't understand, though, is the consumer perspective is always the
 best perspective. And if they aren't getting the story, they don't care about the brand can come
 through. And you know, our Cadbury story that we talked about in the last episode is point blank,
 you know, grill a play in in the air tonight, you know, on the drums as nothing to a Cadbury,
 the light brand mentioned at the end. And we see that that's the highest scoring ad in like
 the history of your study. And you're making the right point. It is not about branding frequently.
 It is about branding at the right moment. It is the same way that you come into a room and you
 announce yourself to a group of strangers. And you're like, hi, I am Joe. And I am the greatest
 solution to all your problems. How many people will want to pay attention? Everyone. Right. But if
 Joe comes in and says, Hey guys, how's it going? Let me tell you a really interesting story.
 You know, I was walking the other day and I happened to meet this really interesting person
 who gave me this really interesting story. And these are all the interesting facts about it.
 Oh, by the way, I'm Joe. And this is what I do. This is how I ran into it. I still made the
 introduction of who I am. But the interweaving of the narrative as to why I'm at the party
 starts to make it much more interesting. The challenge I think with creatives is also struggling to
 how do you keep narrative fresh? Because the one thing about the subconscious is it doesn't like
 repetition. If I have seen a story one way and I continue to see the same format happening,
 I just start to turn off. That's why when they did categories, the second time with other
 characters, it never worked. And in this challenge with creatives, sometimes they push too far.
 And that has another impact on the advertisement. So when we come in, we actually, our process is
 very different. So depending on platform, depending on the kind of story you want to tell,
 whether it's an equity story or whether it's a true product story, we actually sit down with the
 creatives first. And we say, give us your vision. What do you want to make people feel?
 And from there, we actually help craft the story with them. So we think of ourselves not as market
 researchers, but as co-editors in the process. Some creatives love us for this. Some creatives are like,
 you're stepping on our toes. Get out of our sandbox. What we say is listen, we can't come up with
 a creative solution, but we can tell you where your vision's falling short in execution. And that
 I think is the place where Neuro actually comes in. It helps combine the art of human understanding
 with the science of execution. And that has been that missing link within the industry.
 And you probably have seen this as well. The same thing that works on TV,
 that 30 seconds doesn't work on YouTube. The 15 second doesn't work on any other platform.
 And you kind of convert that into audio and play it on radio.
 Each story, each format is different.
 There was like a violin playing, then it was soft music to my ears. As you said,
 that I just came out of a meeting and like, you know, this is part of my daily sales pitch is
 what we do at Radical is blend the art and the science. Because what's happened in the industry
 is a lot of digital agencies, especially have gotten lost in the sauce of data. And data and
 targeting and all this, I will get to the creative in the story. And that's just flawed thinking.
 Great advertising and marketing is the blend of the art and the science. And it's a law start,
 especially, is the creative storytelling side and it's so important still.
 And you have to think about the story in chapters. There are stories that you tell like,
 you will tell a part of the story on a particular medium. The rest of the story happens in the
 other mediums. And when people see the whole story, they're like, wow, I completely get it.
 That's right. Now each story has to, each chapter has to stand on its own merits. That's important.
 But you cannot expect a chapter to deliver the full book.
 And that's where clients get stuck because they think they got to say it all. And they got to
 say it all the same way. You know, they're so used to cramming the 32nd spot that says it all
 maybe if it's, you know, they tried to and then you lose the story. And then they want to jam that
 into the Facebook video, you know. And listen, I think it worked in the 1960s when there were three
 journals, right? And people would watch the same ads basically on repetition and probably worked
 all the way up to the 90s as well. And it probably worked better in the 90s when there were 200
 channels. That's right. But now that's not the case because now there's not 200. You're talking about
 20 million from what you're seeing on buses with the banner ads over there to what you see on
 billboards, to what you're here on radio for even a few minutes. And you cannot communicate
 everything. And there's a philosophy that we have that we have actually seen work a lot for our
 clients, which is called the theory of iconic triggers. Here's a question for you, right?
 What is your most, if I ask you to think about Lion King the movie, what's the first scene that
 comes into your head? I don't remember, I forget the names, but I guess the father dying or
 something in Simba, I don't know, that or the fight between the the the fathers.
 All right. But now when you start to think about that scene, the movie is fully coming into your
 head. Yes. You're starting to picture the scenes before and after. Yeah. If I and that is what
 you call an iconic moment of a scene of a movie or an iconic moment of any story. Same thing happens
 when we read books. We don't remember right from the beginning all the way to the end. We might
 remember the book cover. We might remember a certain character. We might remember a certain scene.
 That is how the brain stores information. So our subconscious creates these little mini hooks.
 And from those hooks, the rest of the narrative gets built. If you actually thought of your advertising
 the same way, create mini hooks that complete the story. But that mini hook is what's common across.
 It is not the full story that's common. And the way we get to those moments is when we're starting
 TV advertising or when we're studying radio or when we're studying out of home or actually even digital.
 We are looking for those most iconic moments of the ad where all the parts of the subconscious.
 And this is the subconscious, not what the eyes are looking at or where the face is expressing or what
 your sweat glands are sweating more. It's not biometrics. This is your true subconscious.
 And where are the only ones who can do it? When you create a scene that is so iconic that this is
 what people will most likely remember about your ad, we then say this is your hook now. Now use
 this hook to complete the stories across all the other channels. What that does is if you see it for
 the first time on digital, you'll see that hook. Now if you happen to see it on TV, all of a sudden
 that memory is created even stronger, you see it out of home. Again, the memory is created even
 stronger. And with a small marketing budget, you have effectively increased your ROI.
 And you've told a great narrative. And you've made great branding.
 And these are the ways that you make create marketing happen. It is not when you try and push
 your logo everywhere. Well, you've got to entertain on some level and or create a moment that's
 entertaining. And you know, it's interesting when I think about the iconic hooks, you know,
 I'm going to ask a couple questions myself. So would you consider, so I think of,
 and we're talking and trying to help, you know, small to be in businesses, you know,
 narrow down on these things. But I'm going to talk about a big business here for a second.
 Is the iconic hook for a campaign like progressive? Is it flow? Is she the iconic hook
 or is just the comedic part of each one of those spots? So that is a great question because an
 iconic trigger moment could be one of many things. It could be a specific audio cue. It could
 be a visual face to the brand. It could be the specific climax of a story. Or it could even be
 the introduction sequence. And that's the beauty of the subconscious. Is that it will anything can
 be an iconic moment when it is executed correctly? With full, for example, in progressive,
 she became an iconic moment. She became a symbol. And then her in the comedic positions became
 those iconic triggers. But when flow first came on, when the Verizon guy first came on, when
 the gecko first came on, they were just characters. And this is also a part of storytelling that I
 think small and medium business could probably benefit a lot from is do not try to make a campaign
 for a year with just the idea of I'm going to sell it because you're always going to be in that
 fight. And marketing and sales have to be thought about differently. Sales is the art of selling,
 marketing is the art of storytelling to have to enable sales.
 If I had my soundboard right now and I had an amen key, amen. You know, like an old, I don't know
 how much time you spent in the church in the church pew, but I grew up in the south in the Southern
 Baptist. And there'd be, you know, the deacons would be amen when the pastor would say something
 good. Amen. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. That's you just said it. So yes, I would have given you a
 hallelujah and an amen on all of that. You don't know how many times I have to convince client
 even today that sales and marketing are separate. And unfortunately, when you confuse that you don't
 do justice to both. Yes. And there is, there is a part of marketing that lives within sales that
 happens at the point of selling and point of buying. But the art of storytelling is not the same. And
 I have found many examples and this is not just, you know, it's small and medium businesses,
 which sometimes I feel are actually much better at sales driven marketing at the point of buying
 and selling. But in larger companies where marketers also confuse that when you get into a store
 that you should not be doing the same equity based marketing that you're doing on TV or on
 on a broadcast media or on social media. And I think the the the tension is real because it's
 happening on both sides, not just from one department. That's right. I see it all the time. So how many
 times a week you have to explain the difference between a neuro and other forms of research?
 Probably three times a day. My doctors recommended to do it less.
 I think neuro marketing from what I first remember. I was driving back home from the office and there
 was a show on the radio talking about neuro marketing. And this was about 10 or 12 years ago.
 And things have picked up dramatically since then from people not understanding the concept
 of neuro marketing to now everyone claiming that they don't neuro marketing. I've had people come
 up and pitched to me while I was at Aniser Bush and at Pepsi where well we study micro expressions
 on the face as qualitative focus group moderators. And that's a form of neuro marketing.
 We study eye tracking and that's a form of neuro marketing. No, it's not because you're you're
 just seeing where the eye is going. Yeah, that's the that's the conscious. That's not the subconscious.
 Exactly. And just because so here is a fantastic way of explaining eye tracking to you. Let me give
 you an encyclopedia and let me ask you to go through a pitch. Everything that you have seen on a
 page where there's the picture of the words. Does that mean now that it's imprinted in the conscious
 running the subconscious brand? No, all it says is where my eyes are going. Those are great for
 diagnosing when you're doing, you know, packaging design or when you are doing something that is
 related to navigation cues. Yeah, website UI, all that kind of stuff. So those it helps you figure
 out the parts. But beyond that, if you try and use it further in trying to create behavior,
 it doesn't work. People then talk about running instrumentation that will, you know, study your
 heart rate and your sweat glands and they call it galvanic skin response. It is basically a measure
 of your best arousal. So when you're watching a movie and, you know, it's a horror film and you
 want to hear something about that, fine, those things could work. But when you're trying to create
 advertising, when there is a particular point to this story, those systems don't work.
 And trying to explain to clients that just because somebody claims it's neural,
 doesn't make it neural. The same way, you just because somebody says that they, you know,
 understand a little bit of science, doesn't make them a doctor. You should be actually asking the
 question, do you really study the subconscious or do you study some other part of it?
 And some measurement of a physical reaction that might be happening because
 how you react to something physically versus what you're thinking are many times not exactly the
 same. Yes. And so when you're working with clients, you know, when I think about, you know,
 what you guys do in evaluating, especially when we think back to some of the TikTok work and
 the Super Bowl work and some of those things, I think about you guys evaluating and helping.
 You put the brain pads on, you're evaluating the subconscious to give people feedback on those
 things. But are there, are there like, you know, you guys have been doing this a long time.
 You're the experts in the field. Are there, and I know you did this with some of the TikTok
 studying things like that. But like, are there takeaways that then you guys bundle for clients
 in helping them holistically improve their marketing and creative outputs? You know, are there
 like, I know every campaign is different. So you've got, you know, you got a writer and an art
 director, you know, working on a campaign and putting it together and it's specific to a product
 or service. But are there, you know, call it, you know, four keys, five keys, two keys? Are there,
 are there things that you universally kind of recommend to companies or agencies or otherwise
 in that process? Yeah. So what we do is first and foremost, we make sure that your branding comes
 through. And branding doesn't mean that you slap the logo on the whole thing. We are specifically
 looking for your most dominant branding moment. And have you told a story that actually gets it
 to that point where people are like, I'm interested in knowing what this brand is.
 And that is the core focus of what we say as a marketer, you should be focused on.
 Otherwise, what you'll end up doing is you'll create a narrative that nobody cares about
 and you've just lost marketing dollars. Or you're creating a narrative that will benefit
 the category, but not you. Because you might create a great ad for insurance,
 but I don't know what brand created that narrative. And now I'm just going online and I'm looking
 at different insurance companies. So you just advertised for the art category.
 Oh, you just you just struck another nerve in me. I remember I used to do BDI CDI studies.
 Remember those terms? Oh, yeah. So category development and brand development and
 and sometimes you, you know, like for a startup, there's no category awareness. And so you have
 to elevate the whole category. But when it's a very established like I remember in the days of
 wireless, you know, like I was in doing wireless in 2001. And we had to do some category development
 because, you know, other than people that were working that had bag phones, you know,
 because they had to be mobile and they were aware of it. There was not universal awareness of
 cell phone and the category itself. And so Verizon wireless spent millions of dollars in category
 development. And even though there were other players coming in, but they had to do it. And,
 you know, how much was spent on category versus brand? We did all these BDI CDI studies and,
 you know, in a new business when it, like when Uber came around, they had to elevate the
 category, right? Because it wouldn't exist. And so anyway. And the question then becomes like,
 what is right? Sure. How does this work? Like you have those category questions. And there
 is a time for that. But in an established category, it's about differentiation. And you have to be
 able to bring your brand out. So that's the first thing. And there are many, many principles
 to what makes good branding. And some of them, I think Dallas talked about, and we just published
 in the frontiers of neuroscience a phenomena that happens, which is called conceptual closure.
 Conceptual closure, correct? Exactly. Yep. And conceptual closure basically means that you have
 told the story. The brain thinks now that the story has come to an end. And it takes, you know,
 a couple of seconds to sit in process, everything that it's heard, starting to filter out what it
 wants, what it doesn't want. And during those two seconds, you've shown brand.
 So the two seconds in the ad, when you're basically given the brain a pause is when you're
 shown branding. And a lot of people do this. It starts with fate to black, slow down the music,
 you know, show people going away into the horizon. Things that were like, oh, we're completing
 the story. No, you're not completing the story. You're ending the story. And to date,
 this is 10 years we've been watching this happen. And for the last 10 years, that was the biggest
 principle that we were talking about was avoid this. And there are techniques to how you avoid
 conceptual closure. There are techniques to how you make sure that conceptual closure,
 you know, doesn't impact branding because it's normal for the brain to take many breaks and
 process information. And there are techniques that we have where even if conceptual closure is
 happening, we can try and mitigate the response on branding. So those are, that's the most
 fundamental and basic way that we protect our life for brands. And try to preserve narrative.
 And for us, creative, the narrative integrity and the creative vision is very important.
 So once we have branding, now we start, the second principle is on the creative vision.
 So how do we tell the story the way the creative wants to tell it? And sometimes it is small scenes.
 A simple scene can change and make a huge difference in the way that performs. And we actually
 have seen this diamond again where a wrong pause, a wrong look had changed how people perceive
 the brand. We don't, and the idea is how do you create a great ad with minimal changes to an ad?
 So that's the second principle we have. And then the third one is when we are in the storyboard
 or animatic phase, depending on platform, we actually guide creatives on if your screen time
 makes a huge difference on the way you process information. If I were to give you a 10-point
 email on a laptop, you're going to actually read and remember things differently,
 then if I give you a 10-point email and ask you to read it on your phone.
 Because the parts of your subconscious that actually get engaged, depending on screen type,
 are different. So storytelling has to be different. And we work with creatives and brand
 themes to basically fine tune the ideas in the development phase against screen types.
 So those are principles that we have. And you know, no story is the same. No idea can be replicated
 identically. And brand and narrative have a huge impact on the execution.
 So to back up one second, so creative closure, I'm backing up what to create was a conceptual
 closure, creative closure, concept, concept closure, conceptual closure. We're trying to avoid that.
 Am I hearing you correctly? Because we don't want people thinking the story is over. I mean, help me,
 I think I understand it, but it helped me help explain on layman's terms, like the reason we're
 trying to avoid that in when we're doing marketing and advertising. So we don't we're not trying to
 avoid it. We're trying to avoid it before branding. Before the branding, I got it. So thus the story
 ends. Okay, now I'm with you. So we just told a funny or sad or interesting story through in whatever
 format. And then we fade to black and so the logo. So it's it's then because then you're kind of
 shutting off instead of being included in the message that exactly. And that's the most basic
 way because think about movies. You watch your movie. It fades to black screen credits. Come on.
 What do you do? You leave the screen. Yeah, no one watches the credits unless you did something like
 what Marvel's that Marvel did and said, oh, by the way, there is a scene at the end that you need
 to wait and watch. Yes, I love that. I love that. People wait at five, six minutes.
 And I mean, that is I think that is a magic or storytelling. Like you create these new ones. And
 that's the best part about conceptual closure is you think you've solved for conceptual closure
 because you've done it a few times. But because advertising changes is such a rapid
 what was causing conceptual closure and where creatures of habit. So what was
 considered causing conceptual closure in the past couple of years because of a learned habit
 actually has now changed. So what we saw with ads was there were ads when you know
 you would fade to black and it won't work. But then people started to change to fade to reds
 or fade to whites and they stopped working. Then they started to do things where all right,
 let me just start the ad with my brand and let me just avoid this whole issue of conceptual closure.
 But you give away your brand too early and all of a sudden people are like, I'm not interested.
 So these, the subconscious adapts so quickly. The theories are there. We just have to keep
 watching on how people change their responses. I love it, man. I think we could talk all day about
 this. It is a deep thing to mind. Yes, no kidding. Just like my wife's.
 I just don't want her to feel left out. Yes, I know. I'm going to get some brain pads so I can
 hook them up to my wife and know what she's thinking at any moment. We haven't gotten all there yet.
 We just stop at how people are reacting. We don't try to go further into how they are. What
 they're actually thinking. Damn it. All right. I love it, man. But there's a lot of good stuff here.
 I know we're going to continue these conversations. We could go on and on. A lot of insight here
 for brands and marketers that are thinking about the outputs they put on different channels,
 the important of context for those things, the different screens, the impact. That was really
 enlightening to me, thinking about it that way. And hell, even within the screens, you've got vertical
 and hardest on home. And there's just so many so many layers to this. But some right, I really
 appreciate you coming on again and sharing your insights and telling us even more about the brain
 and how scary it is. It's a wonderful place where the greatest stories and the most amazing
 inspiration comes from. I think the more we can talk about it and learn from it, the more we
 will inspire ourselves. Thank you for having me. Great. Yeah, man. Working here, we keep up with you
 again. Let's let's drop just some of any of that info. So anyone that may not have heard our last
 episode, I can know where to find you and everything neuro insights. Yeah. So you can absolutely come
 to our website. It's neurodashinsite.com or you can search me on LinkedIn. I keep regularly posting new
 content there. And yeah, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Great. We'll really appreciate
 something about coming on and our great partnership with neuro insights. They are the go-to for the
 real the greatest and the best in neuro and brain and all that stuff. They are doing some cutting
 edge things and we're so excited to be partnering and having them on and them just sharing so much
 knowledge with all of our listeners. We can know where to find us. We're at the.rad.cast on
 Instagram, theradcast.com. We've got a new website launching here in the next few days. You're
 going to be able to find all of our content. You can search for any thing, any topic that you want.
 You can search for neuro. You'll find all of our great episodes with neuro insight. You can search
 for Instagram anything and everything. We spend a lot of time on really aggregating all of the
 content we've brought to life on the radcast. So be on the lookout for that. You know where to find
 me at in on Instagram. I'm at Ryan offer it on all the platforms and we'll see you next time.
 Yo guys, what's up Ryan offered here. Thanks so much for listening. Really appreciative. Do
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