Under The Oak: Neurodiversity's Impact on Creativity & Technology with Veronica Shelton

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 Hello, and welcome right about now. We're always mixing things up
 You never know what to expect even with our countdowns for our guests. I am excited today
 I'll be honest, you know, you do this show. I've had 700 guests and sometimes I get in here and I start talking with the guests
 And I'm like, you know, I don't know if I'm in a job at this person, but we're gonna make some lemonade out of lemons
 I don't have a problem today. We have the lovely Veronica Shelton
 She is the co-founder of Oak theory. What's up Veronica? What's up Ryan? Hi, I am fabulous
 You know, you make people want to smile. I think it's your smile. You had a great smile
 You know, it's glued to my face. Yeah, I can't help it reading everything you've done
 All the brands are working with everything you're doing with oak theory. It's cool. What the hell is up there?
 I'm so oak theory we're a product design studio now
 We're calling ourselves a creative tech studio because product design has gotten so big
 But basically we build product software applications digital experiences and just flow with it
 Full service. How'd you get into this? Nothing gets my attention like neuro spicy creativity. I am
 Neuro-typical. Well, neurodivergent. Sorry. I have autism, but level one
 And I think that played a huge part in me being within the industry that I'm in
 I'm obsessed with and not just tech but how humans use it and how we adapt to things
 Which is going crazy right now with AI, right? Like there's a huge psychological side to it
 I get how you've done this up this show for now going on seven years and having some of the biggest founders
 And I get asked a lot and I asked a lot what's the key to success and you know
 Because everybody wants the blueprint and a lot of people listening to the other wanting to get the cheat sheet
 For people like yourself and others curiosity the most successful people are the most curious people
 I know they have to like figure something out because if you don't have that then you probably aren't
 Solving a problem that you would get paid to solve anyway
 That is 100% truth and then you don't have enough to dive into it. If you're curious about something
 Go deeper. You just like something like oh, I like this business. I'm just gonna do this business surface level
 It's like well, you'll just stay in that space. You'll never get more so yeah, I agree. It's got to be interesting
 Not only kind of being in this tech side you're a woman of color
 So you got two things that aren't a very untypical for that space being both a woman and a woman of color
 What's that been like? Honestly, I am what my friends call a gallery treacher
 Always happy small glued and so even in that situation, I feel like it's been such a super power
 Because I have a perspective that not a lot of people have because of who I am and I feel like I bring that to the table with everything
 So the way you look at tech is probably different sometimes in the way I look at experiences and back in the way that I even have to
 Go into meetings and how I am listen to versus not listen to sometimes
 So I think there's been like of course these learning moments. I rather call them learning the negative across the board
 But I think there's been a lot of positive in it
 If you're vocal about the value that you bring and you don't hide it and you can say it in a way that doesn't come off like
 Huh, I think it leaves a lot of space for us to lean in and focus on innovation and how to do things and stay curious about things together
 I love that you've turned that I can go out a lot of different ways with that and the positivity that you bring around it
 And and what I think and I go man wouldn't verana because perspective that because she's smart
 She understands the stuff and the diversity that you bring why though jeez high demand if you ask me like I love that perspective
 I mean because I'm telling you I'm gonna totally stereotype here so I'm leaning in
 I don't need another dorky 27-year-old guy telling me something about tech
 Oh, like it seems a little cookie cutter. I think that's great perspective and
 What do you think when you have those discussions or you're working with clients?
 What do you think that diversity and thought process for you?
 What colors do you paint with? What do you think changes it from your perspective when you get in those discussions about technology or building products or things like that?
 I think with technology the one beautiful thing that I like about it is similar to math
 Certain demographic data doesn't matter and so a lot of times with tech
 It's more so about our brain how we navigate things and that's one thing
 I love because that's something that I think we share across the board as humans
 brings us together and I think it's why there's so much unity in it because there's so little bias that is
 Surface level. It's all here so in physical
 So I think usually the conversations never have to do with how I look until we get past
 Like a lot of times of clients when they come in and they meet Hannah and I
 Hannah is Korean. I'm black. We're both women people do not expect us to be who we are because of the biases and shit
 That's out there. I think like already that's
 Usually
 Usually that is a mountain that we have to climb over in a lot more meetings than I'd like to admit
 Be able to get to the good stuff
 Usually we've had it more times for you guys you guys are who would be working on the project
 It's like hi like who's the tech lead hi really? Yes. Can we please just I promise you if we can get to it
 You'll understand so I think that's
 I say Google Disney and Sephora can you talk about the types of projects her things you've done with some of these companies?
 So Disney was great. It was books don't have a brain fog pregnancy fog
 But um with Disney is working on books children's books. I got to creative direct quite a few big titles
 Which was really fun and that was me working with brilliant artists and copywriters and printing team publishing
 Jesus, there's word so that was great and honestly those things come into perspective working on things like
 Doc McStuffins right and calling out how certain words are used who's the demographic his table
 Are these going to be on so white in this up-and-door so there is a lot of different books. I worked on with Sephora again
 I will admit that's very
 Perspective-based. It was going into a project doing a global campaign with the humongous
 Up in the Nika company and that was working on things all the way from figuring out what models we're gonna use
 I think during that time if you were to look at my portfolio during the time of Sephora when I'm cinema
 Who else is back down? I'll know some other names
 I was very vocal about being a black woman in tech because I think I stayed back then but it was maybe 10 years ago
 Eight years ago
 It was a bit more on the publishing side
 So with Sephora is like hey you have these models. You have one type of Asian model
 You have one type of black model one type of Latina model
 But if we look at some of the stats
 I was able to come to the table and be like if we look at the numbers. This is not what they all look like
 Like you're using models that have a look that's not commercial enough for it to probably attract the demographic you're going for
 Here's numbers to prove what I'm saying. So it doesn't sound stupid. Same with lamp cinema
 I was able to work on a project that introduced the first family of black family in their catalog
 So those are things that I think were race related in those projects
 And then we go to things like Google working on their diversity supplier platform, which I think is bigger
 It's a bigger issue when it comes to diversity because we're talking about a lot of people across the board
 Google's huge of global and so when we're looking at a diversity platform
 We don't it's not a black and white thing
 There's people of all shades and all colors and all backgrounds who go into that. So fun projects to work on
 Let me ask you on the diversity side. How do you balance if there's sides to an argument?
 I don't know that that's the right way to frame it
 But I'm lacking a better way to say it
 Diversity for diversity's sake versus getting the best whatever for whatever it might be the best solution or the best diverse solution
 Those things aren't always the easiest to align. Are they?
 They should always align
 Diversity's not just race is age, ableism, gender, anything that you can do
 There's some people who can't function their hands the same as others
 There's some people who are colorblind
 There's some people who are dyslexic
 Those are all things that come into tech that I feel like a lot of people miss when we're talking diversity
 It's ageism. There's some people who can't see text that's below 14 points
 And so with technology and how we use it tech is only as good as how easy and accessible it is for the user
 Otherwise, it's a waste you get the best product in the world the best application is smartest tool
 Open AI still needs a UI team for Plexity Google
 They still need a team of designers and UI specialists and psychologists and anthropologists to
 Make sure that their tool works well for people. So I think they have to work together
 You have to have diversity in tech. You know, use the word that I like better than diversity
 Accessibility is really what it's about. That's really what we're talking about
 It's making complex things accessible to diverse groups that might not always be representative or thought of
 And I think that accessibility really helps frame it better
 You know, because this isn't about diversity for diversity say it is that accessibility because we're all
 Blinded by our own ignorance sometimes and not in what's in our sphere of influence
 And so if I don't see through the eyes of these people what they go through how they do things that is what has to get unlocked
 And I think that's the super power you bring is that accessibility to diverse groups
 Summarizing the right way you are on to it. Look at you smarty pants exactly
 And it's the empathy towards accessibility and I think it's becoming more mainstream like people are understanding it
 Now people are talking about it now. We have the TikToks and the social sites where it's even the neurospiciness came from
 Some of right it's because people now understand where it comes from and what it means. So I'm happy with the direction
 We're going in which accessibility is becoming very important. So yeah, you're absolutely correct
 What's been your favorite project? I can't say that here. I love all my projects. Who's your favorite baby?
 Which baby of yours is the prettiest?
 I will never you will never catch me. I love all my clients you guys are all amazing
 Of course, but you probably has to be something that you're this really sunk your teeth into
 Favorite might be the wrong word, but something that just maybe you weren't sure what it was gonna be
 But damn you walked away proud and excited about it. Okay. I'm gonna go in a different direction anyway
 And it's gonna be a little selfish plug, but my favorite project right now is under the oak and that is what it's a media
 Project that we're working on that's coming from oak theory. So oak theory. We're almost we're very technical
 We build we make products. We make software we build applications and it's very project focused
 The team is very project focused. We have an amazing team
 And then we're working on this new thing where at the end of the day
 We're still human and sometimes we can get lost and trying to make things more efficient and trying to you know
 The burnout of trying to make everything. Oh, it has to be super profitable. It has to be all these things
 And so under the oak brings in that psychological side that I think Hannah and I needed honestly as a breakaway
 To be like when we do work on projects that feel maybe a little heavy with AI coming in
 There's a lot of projects that are coming in where there's this feeling of this is so smart
 This is so great, but how is this going to affect mankind? And what are we seeing happening? How is this affecting our brains?
 How is this affecting our youth? How is this affecting how we interact with people? We know we're smart girls
 So we know based on research that a lot of the things that are happening right now with AI and just with technology in general
 We've seen some Asian countries like Japan and things like that how that can lead to isolation and depression and certain
 Versus people and how it could right now we see it in places in Europe and even in America with the youth where they're becoming
 They're losing their critical thinking skills
 And so we wanted a place where we could talk about those things
 openly and more from an emotional side
 And so I think that's my favorite project right now. I love that and I had a guy last week on he wrote a book called generation AI
 And it's kind of like you guys will make a great team together
 His is more like the implications of what them growing up within it and sort of like but not necessarily
 Some of the deep end of the water stuff with what it means for how brain development is all that kind of stuff
 I don't think it's intentionally swept under the rug
 I just don't know if we think or talk about it enough
 It's definitely talked about in the in certain groups
 I feel like it's not like it's all I hear about especially with the
 Well, I know you hear about it, but you don't hear about okay
 What does this actually mean for how our kids are developing?
 We do and this is where I think it's important to look at things right like um
 Got it pivot everywhere with things I've worked on but especially with gaming and children
 There's a lot of games that are being
 Government funded in processes and things that are being government funded because our youth are going to lose a huge part of how
 They of cognitive abilities. They're not going to have the same critical thinking skills that we have
 I'll put it this way. Are you a millennial? I am Gidex. Oh well, okay
 Though I'm a millennial I think there's probably a lot of millennial listeners
 And I feel like one thing that we all have gotten used to and honestly you too
 We're part of a really huge transformational era like we're used to it
 We went from cassette tapes to now music being pulled out of thin air
 We've adapted really quickly, but now we're in a place where adapting is insane
 It's faster than that and if you look at how we've changed over time and how we've become dependent
 We used to never have cell phones in our hands
 It wasn't a way of living now you cannot go without a cell phone in your hand
 You are completely dependent your whole life depends on it
 How you connect with your friends and family depend on it
 You don't even know what writing a letter or stamps look like these days
 It's completely changed how we do things
 Coffee layers out the door
 So if you think about that and you think that that is what we can consider a healthy timeline to adjust
 Right now if you squish that probably I would say like a hundred times
 That's the timeline that this new generation has to adapt to a new way of being
 Like technology we just have expectations of technology
 Now we're at a place where technology is now having expectations of us
 Changing how we work, how we live, how we think
 These are really huge things to consider
 I think when we're looking at AI and how these things come in
 I think it's talked about, it's definitely not talked about enough
 Yeah, it's fascinating
 I came up in analog world we converted to digital
 You know, which is kind of like what you're talking about with Eve
 And now we're going from digital
 And this is one second of thought probably better word to generative
 Because analog and digital still require a pull
 I'm grabbing something
 Versus it's now generative
 It's creating itself and pushing
 Whether it was digital or analog we're pulling information
 We're pulling songs we're pulling data
 Now it's pushing out
 That's why these things are important because it's funny
 I was joking on business partner because there's this rumor going around
 With Jeff Bezos buying vogue for his wife or something
 And I freaked out because this is recent
 If he did it it's exactly what we're trying to do now
 Because even when we started I was like I wanted to be the con day
 Nast of this generation
 Because if we remember those magazines those are things that kind of kept us grounded
 They had the quizzes in it and they had all these things that just kept us
 In this place where we still have fun
 And we're still able to look at things without this new culture that's coming in
 That just feels like it's so a little culture
 Be more efficient, be more productive
 Oh you like doing that thing
 Here's how to make millions doing that thing and it's like
 Yes, yes
 But that's not all life has to offer
 You need to remember yourself and what's going on in here
 You have kids they still need to experience outside
 These influencers and all this stuff
 But here's the effects that that can have on them
 And maybe some healthy ways in which you can go about it
 We're still figuring this out
 It's there's just this conversation that I think is missing
 In this new transformation a new era of AI
 You shouldn't be having all those conversations with AI
 Those conversations need to be had among humans who are experiencing things
 Dog with Veronica Shelton
 She is the co-founder of Oak theory
 I love that name
 You know it's like old and new
 Yeah, old Oak wood versus theories like sounds so high tech
 Very good branding
 I like it
 The grounded thank you
 Is this print?
 Is this digital?
 How are we telling these stories?
 Brain art's digital, it's blogs, it's articles
 We even have a podcast
 We're in there that we're like playing around with
 But it's a digital media platform
 That we're building out just to have those
 deep conversations about where we're at and tech
 And where things are going
 And it's changing our lives
 I love it
 There's definitely a lot of white blue ocean space for that type of content
 So I think it's unlimited
 Yeah
 Right now we work on a lot of projects
 I think that are coming in that are technical
 And especially building what they are
 And so a lot of times there's a lot of research
 That goes into building things out
 We might have a school that approaches us
 And they want to like a university
 They want to develop new ways to get their students to
 Buy products from their store
 And so we have to go into the psychological aspect of
 What makes them want to do that
 What can hit them in certain places
 Why did we still like nostalgia
 And what triggers us in nostalgia
 To make us want to buy something
 Those are psychological things
 That we probably don't look at off the shelf
 Like we're like oh it's just buying something
 But it's like no there's a reason why you looked at that product
 That target
 And it was a color that made you feel something
 And suddenly you're picking up something
 You didn't even come into the store for
 And now you're getting it
 There's a psychological side to it
 Arget alone
 I'm not even going to get started on the brilliant mind
 I forgot her name
 Who puts maps together for them
 To do exactly that
 Her job is to make maps
 Or the store that increase sales
 But on a psychological level
 When we have projects come in
 No we want to be able to talk about those things
 And what we gain from our research
 And bring that to the to the public
 And so under the opus kind of our way to do that
 We do it with permission of course
 But it's like hey
 We did a lot of research on this thing
 That shows what we were talking about earlier
 How certain tools that your kids are using
 And really affect their critical thinking skills
 Here are some ways that we've learned
 Can help
 Here are some ways that we've learned
 Are impacting it
 Take with it what you will
 Open conversation
 I love it
 I used to work in shopper marketing
 Yeah I've done a lot in the market side
 Lighting a store up
 Everything is into place
 There's a reason the milk and the eggs are in the back
 The store and the bread is hard to find
 You have to stumble upon a hundred other things
 You may or may not need
 There's a lot of psychology involved in it
 There's so much
 And there's a reason the candy is where it is too
 Yes exactly
 In the magazines
 Easy wraps
 Like there's
 And kid level
 It's short on purpose
 There's those shelves
 So you can see grab it
 And hand it to their mom and dad
 And you know get it
 How much stuff can we sell?
 It's crazy
 But I love it
 Sometimes I got a bit
 Yeah
 Imagine you're on the forefront of seeing
 Different technologies
 Platform software
 Is there anything you're seeing
 That you're excited about
 That is going to make the things you do
 Better for accessibility
 And diversity
 And things like that
 Anything that makes me excited
 Software or hardware
 Software or hardware side
 Are you seeing stuff that would blow people's minds
 Or is it more practical than you think
 That is a hard question to ask
 Because in my brain a lot of things
 Are probably more practical than I think
 Right now the biggest thing that
 Everyone's talking about
 And it's the obvious
 Is AI
 And where it's going
 I feel like it's the best tool that's ever existed
 I feel like there's so much
 That's coming from it
 From building
 Agenetic environments
 I think that's a whole new world of its own
 And mind of its own
 Then my excitement honestly goes into
 Something that
 I think we're not going to get to for a while
 But it's AR
 I think it's quiet right now
 On purpose
 But AR is probably where
 I'm definitely focusing a lot of attention to know about
 Because I do think that's going to be the future
 We're going through this evolution
 I think that's probably going to be
 The big one
 That's going to be the cell phone
 Of just having augmented
 Elements and reality
 In our rural world
 So that's probably what's making me excited
 I can go down the deepest tunnel
 With accessibility features
 And why I think that's great
 I think it's going to change the game for a lot of people
 Whose brains and skill sets
 We haven't been able to experience
 I think AI in general is doing that right
 I have an amazing team
 I have a team of brilliant people
 We started Oak Theory five years ago
 We had designated spaces for them
 Designers were designers
 Engineers were engineers
 Developers were developers
 Sales are sales
 Now that we're in this new place for the past year
 This is where we're seeing this huge shift
 In Dops
 And what people are capable of
 Designers are now able to develop a lot easier
 Sales, coffee writers
 People who weren't naturally creative
 Are able to create
 It's creating such a fluid space
 In work environments that it's ridiculous
 On top of that
 I've been struggling as a founder
 I think a lot of founders probably are struggling with this too
 With the integrity to keep your team
 And not replace them with AI
 Because AI is coming in
 And doing a lot of things
 That I think project management wise
 And things like that are just
 No brainer you don't need it anymore like used to
 But you still need that human side
 But I think there's this really cool area that
 I've been playing around with where
 It's being very transparent with the team like
 Hey, Dops are changing
 We need to adapt
 Creative person
 Now that you have AI
 What else can you do?
 Suddenly our designer
 Is able to write things
 We're able to have copyrighting done by them
 And they can finish projects easier
 Suddenly our developers
 Our engineers are
 We're going to cross the board on
 In every area
 I can't even go in
 To how vast our skill set
 Or how wide range our skill set is now
 Is because of this one tool
 Our sales is able to put together their own pitch decks
 Without having to go to design
 That saves us a lot of money a year
 And so I think that's something that I really find interesting
 And I'm working on processes after processes
 We've replaced our team in the past year
 I will be honest
 It saved us mid six figures
 And in that
 We've been able to do so much more
 And our team has become so poor
 That it's almost like a new kind of core
 Where our team works together in such a fluid way
 Our Mondays and Thursday meetings
 Are the most amazing things I've ever seen
 Because they're touching so many things
 Now it's not so horrible to be a jack of all trades
 It's not so horrible to say
 I have a team that does a lot
 Because it doesn't feel like they're carrying as much anymore
 In fact they're like learning and having fun with it
 So that is a place where I think is really fun
 And having them work with agents is really interesting
 Watching them work with the agents that were built
 And this like hybrid environment is
 Stoping as hell
 But that's the right word on them
 It's wild
 Yeah
 It is wild
 And I'm glad you went there
 This is a really fascinating topic
 I think there's a lot of interest around
 And I own multiple companies
 I worked in New York
 And I had a team of a hundred people
 Worked in the adding to SeaWorld
 This is way before AI
 And it will build exactly the thing you're talking about
 I was always sort of a jack of all trades
 In the add agency world
 And it was not the most popular thing
 Because the add agency world especially
 Like putting people in boxes
 You're the creative person
 You're the writer
 You're the account person
 You're the strategy person
 You're the media person
 And how dare the account person ever be creative
 Process over
 Strategic
 And I was the strategic creative account guy
 That made the agency a lot of money
 But wasn't always the most popular
 And I started my agency radical
 With the intent to create sort of a flat environment
 Way before AI and agents
 Because I knew
 You're not extracting the best out of people
 Yes you need specialization
 And you need to know what your job is
 And what your functions are
 But I always believed
 You weren't always extracting the best out of your team
 When you limited them to only one function
 Yes, just very
 No one knows my whole
 That proved to be successful
 And then
 AI has come around
 And I had the exact discussion with my team
 I had close to 20 employees
 Four years ago
 We have less than a quarter of that now
 It's been natural
 I think I'm only fired one person
 It's just been natural
 Evolution of leaving and going other places
 And me not replacing
 As some of these technologies have come along
 And now we're as lean-toes ever
 But I had that exact discussion that you did
 And that I think a lot of business owners
 Are having to have this discussion with their teams to go
 This can do a lot of what your job was
 I believe in you
 And you are talented
 And I need you to embrace this
 And I'm not going to fire you
 But
 Yes
 You need to understand
 That you need to be doing
 Not just more
 We just got to work more
 No you don't have to work more
 Work the same hours
 But the output should be 10x
 But cause of what these agents are doing
 And you're no longer just this
 You can be the writer
 And the designer
 And the developer
 And your agent can help you do these things
 With product task management
 And a litany of other things
 If people aren't embracing that
 They will be jobless
 But if you embrace it
 It will be just fine
 But it is very
 I think a lot of leaderships are having
 It has to be accepted
 Because you need a team that can be fluid and grow with you
 And honestly it's such a battle
 Because we've had people who are like
 Well I don't want to
 And it's like
 Well damn
 Because
 I know you don't want to
 But this is like us changing software
 You have to adjust to the new software
 You can't just say I don't want to learn it
 Because if you don't
 Then we can't do anything now together
 And I feel like that's what's happening now
 We're moving over to this new way of thinking
 It is going to be the way of thinking
 We have to stay
 Float where a business
 And if you're not on it
 And you can't do it
 That means you can't adapt
 If you can't adapt
 We can't grow as a business
 We have to adapt that's the whole point
 So I think there have been hard conversations
 And it's a thing that's happening
 But people have to embrace it though
 Those who embrace it
 Will have plenty of work
 But it's just you have to leverage it
 And gonna be those that leverage it
 And those that don't
 And then if you don't
 I don't know what's on
 You need to go get skills trade
 Or something
 The aplomer
 If you have something with your hands
 That hasn't been replaced yet
 Intel
 Yeah
 Intel
 There's CEO just had to make that big announcement
 That they did that
 They did not adapt fast enough
 Now they're out of the game
 They can't even compete
 Their CEO had to say that we failed
 Because that's what happened
 Leadership doesn't adapt
 So we can see that on a huge scale
 How that affects everyone
 Now everyone who was like
 This leadership's job to coach everyone
 That this is the new reality
 And you've got to come along
 Because if leadership puts their head in the sand
 Then everybody's out of a job
 Because the business is out of it
 I've seen it
 I've seen friends companies
 Where they have leaders
 Or people just don't want to do it
 In their minds, they know what works
 Because that's what's always worked
 And now
 They're like, up shits creek
 And if there's one thing
 As a company we've definitely nailed
 Is we're very chill
 As a company
 We're four day work
 We're not really on everyone's ass all the time
 But when we have hard truths like this
 This is when we kind of sit the hell down
 We got it
 This is real
 And so I think the hard conversations was pretty soft
 Because it's we left so much open for
 Where do you see yourself evolving
 You have to do it
 You have to evolve
 As if this is what's happening to your role
 Here, let's use this same tool to show you
 Where your skill set could take you
 Where do you want to go
 Okay, how is that going to bring value to the company
 Like these are conversations we've had
 With each and every team member
 A developer
 You're doing front end right now
 Now we have these tools
 By next week
 I wanted to see you introduce three other tools to me
 That will allow you to expand your skill set
 Using AI
 We'll pay for it
 We'll fund it
 We pay for them to learn
 We pay for their classes
 But you have to grow
 Or else we're going to have to replace you
 Because now we won't be able to compete
 And if we can't compete we can't feed everybody
 We've got family, people with families
 We're not about to let them not eat
 Just because you ask
 Want to sit here
 And say well I'm comfortable doing this
 So it's real conversations that we're being had
 But it's made such a
 Top of our team and we're stronger than ever
 We got robots
 Talking in the team
 It feels seamless
 And it feels beautiful
 And it feels just as homey
 And cozy as it always felt
 It doesn't have to be uncomfortable
 Unless you make it that way
 It should be exciting
 Because for me
 I've loved it
 Not because by employee
 You know cost lower
 I loved it because
 How much more productive
 I know how I could think
 And spend more time on the stuff that matters
 Versus mundane things
 And so if you are embracing that
 Reality then that's the problem
 Not the other way around
 Yes
 You said it because this is exactly what we say
 It gives us space to focus on what matters
 It gives us space to look at projects
 And now because so many of those mundane little tasks
 That had to go into a project
 That were like more tactical
 More like step by step a process
 Those can get done
 And so now we can focus on real problems
 And how to solve them
 And I think that's even what gave us the room
 To start this under the oil
 Because we were able to now say
 Holy shit
 Look at how the psychological things
 Are going into this
 It's what gives us space to do more
 And I'm watching it with friends companies
 A lot of people are starting sub-rans
 And other companies now within their company
 Because of this
 It gives you room to see things that you couldn't see before
 Because you're so focused on getting the project done
 Now the projects are getting done more efficiently
 Less hands on deck
 You're able to really have a wider look
 And range on what you're working on
 And why
 And there's a beauty in that
 So yeah
 You're absolutely correct
 Yeah
 I love that you said that
 Because I'm right on the scene
 You seem like a great leader
 Has that been nature or nurture
 That your leadership
 Both a lot of humility
 I don't know if it's a
 Neuro spicy thing
 But I think if there's one thing
 I tell everyone
 How do you tell me first and then
 I'm like
 Leave here you go at the door
 Leave here you go at the door
 And always be straightforward and honest
 People who will want to work with you
 Will work with you
 You'll see patterns immediately
 With people always pick up on that
 But I leave my ego at the door
 I don't think I'm smarter than anyone on my team
 Or else why the hell would they be there
 So I think with those things in mind
 It allows me to be honest with my team open
 I'm not anyone on my team's competitor
 I'm like there's nothing in me
 That wants to feel better than you
 I want you to feel like you want to be here
 Because at the end of the day
 The truth is
 Each one of those people on your team
 Are building your dream
 And you're giving them freedom
 I like to say I offer freedom tokens
 Pay for what you're doing
 That's the trade-off
 And then in the day
 They're building something for me
 And if they want to be a part of it
 That's great because I'm like
 Listen
 I'll do whatever I can
 To make sure you're part of this
 Or I honey
 I'll make sure that you're in it
 That you feel like it's home
 I think there is that ego thing
 We have to drop it aside
 And be like
 That is the hard truth though
 If you hire right
 Talent that you feel like you cannot replace
 There's a lot of value
 That you put on them
 Under the oak
 Sounds like a podcast to me
 And I have a podcast never
 So we should talk more about that
 We should
 We have so many recordings
 Already things that we talk about
 And it's just putting it out there
 And I think you know
 You've been doing this for a while
 There's that perfectionism thing that comes in
 And there's like this thing
 That we're working through
 And still trying to get through
 And especially because
 I'm my and I'm very opinion based
 With my conversations
 And we're still getting through
 So it makes it spicy
 Listen, that is
 That is my personality
 We're figuring it out
 But it's really fun
 And I'm really excited about the conversations we're having
 Working here
 But keep up with everything you're doing
 Oak theory.co
 Cl
 Under the oak.co
 Cl
 I like to be authentic
 Can I just say this?
 I will always be me
 You can't look at my social and know
 Who I am unless you go to the link
 I'll just say that
 My social if anyone wants to reach out to me
 Is first Shelton
 I'm on Insta and everything else
 You can follow me on LinkedIn
 But under the oak.co
 We have a contact
 Reach out if you want to reach out
 Let's talk
 We're always open to work on new projects
 And fun new things
 And hello at Oak theory
 It's last one
 And now Ryan
 I have good expectations
 Unlike you
 So
 I'm pretty excited
 I like it
 Hey, that means I'm on brand
 Yes
 Yes
 Yes
 So it's like how this is going to be
 Cool
 I was excited
 Well, you were awesome
 You look great
 Congratulations on being a new mother
 To be
 Thank you
 So I hope all that
 Goes well
 Let's stay in touch
 I'm serious
 If you guys get down
 The media are out on
 Podcasts
 Something I'm here
 Here to be a resource
 We have proof that you said it
 So no takebacks
 Everyone heard it
 Thank you
 Hey guys
 You don't have to find us
 Ryan is right
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 From today's episode
 The full episode
 Download links to YouTube
 You need to watch this
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 Veronica here
 In person live
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 We appreciate you
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 We'll see you next time
 Right about now
 This has been right about now
 With Ryan Alford
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