What Teams Really Want From Leaders W/ Executive Advisor Phill Nosworthy

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Big Success podcast, cutting edge conversations on business and personal success, as well as how to level up.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's your host, number one business coach in the world, brad Shokers.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to think a lot this week.

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<v Speaker 2>Phil Nasworthy makes me think and it's thinking about how I want to be successful and how you define success.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy is a massive thinker.

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<v Speaker 2>Consults with the Microsoft, xbox, formula One, you name it.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in there with their leaders, helping them think about their success and pragmatically breaking that down.

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<v Speaker 2>So all those fortune listed companies that he goes in and coaches and speaks to and stuff is phenomenal.

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<v Speaker 2>Father of two kids, lives in Sydney, australia, so you'll get his Australianisms with me.

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<v Speaker 2>But when you think about the way success happens, phil has a unique way of giving you and me an insight into how we need to be to have success happen for us in our own way.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to love it.

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely did, phil Nasworthy.

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<v Speaker 2>So, phil, what is success to Phil Nasworthy?

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<v Speaker 2>What's your definition?

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<v Speaker 3>It's a big question, isn't it Rad?

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<v Speaker 3>And I often think about the way that my definitions of success either lead me towards things that are worthwhile or actually away from things that are just genuinely more meaningful to me over the long term.

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<v Speaker 3>So I want to be careful about the stories of success.

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<v Speaker 3>It's almost like panning for gold for me, because it's easy, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>In the way that we do life, and especially with this thing, and the way that we are informed so much by other people's opinions and other people's stories, I want to be really, really careful of honing in on my own version, and so I know that that's a non-answer to start.

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<v Speaker 3>But first and foremost, for me, success is a series of stories that I want to keep looking at, keep refreshing, use them to orient me towards things that actually matter and, when it is time and appropriate, call BS on some of the stories, some of the janky definitions of success, some of the versions that are useful for other people but not so much for my 82 good years that are planned.

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<v Speaker 2>How did it evolve to that?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let me ask did it evolve?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, as a young man did you come out with that level of wisdom, or did this as an evolution thing?

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<v Speaker 3>Goodness, no, hey, brad, I started.

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<v Speaker 3>My first ever job was folding clothes for Mr Giorgio Armani, so I had this fast birth into high wealth as it juxtaposed with my $17 an hour.

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<v Speaker 3>So here I was, like folding clothes it sounds so gorgeous and glorious.

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<v Speaker 3>I worked for Giorgio Armani but really I stood around folding clothes making sure the store was neat.

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<v Speaker 3>And in Sydney, in Martin Place, if you had four or five customers in a day in Armani, oh, watch out, that's peak hour.

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<v Speaker 3>It was really, really busy.

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<v Speaker 3>When I was 20 and 21, my vision of success were the people that came in and could drop their kind of metal cards onto the bench and spend tens of thousands of dollars on a suit or $75,000 on a couture dress.

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<v Speaker 3>But now I know that it is entirely possible for people to have a large bank account and an empty circle of friends.

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<v Speaker 3>It's possible for people to have extraordinary success from a hierarchy perspective but not really have the love and support and respect of the people that do report into them in the workplace.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I think what happens if we're careful and if we keep an eye on this question of what is success to me, it should be informed as we get older.

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<v Speaker 3>God forbid, I'm 40 now, but God forbid, I'm running on a story of success that was useful when I was 20 because it accelerated me towards certain things.

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<v Speaker 3>But in continuing to ask the question, what does success mean?

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<v Speaker 3>What is it really about?

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<v Speaker 3>What really matters?

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<v Speaker 3>We might be able to hone in a little bit by bit and hopefully, if I'm doing this right, when I wake up at 50, my version of success now will have given way to something better as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's constantly up for grabs.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the bit where I want to be careful, though, of also not lowballing myself.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to be careful that my vision of success isn't like a false contentment or using comparison in ways that are really helpful on the days where we're feeling heavy about ourselves.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll compare myself sideways, where I could have been here or it could be worse.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to compare myself up, what is possible for myself.

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<v Speaker 3>So, all the while sifting through this constant set of stories to find the things that will drive us and move us forward and put us in a position where we can add as much value to the lives of other people.

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<v Speaker 2>Love it, love it.

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<v Speaker 2>When do you think in your life you chose success Like?

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<v Speaker 2>You chose to be above average.

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<v Speaker 2>Where did that happen?

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<v Speaker 2>As a young man?

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<v Speaker 2>Where did you see that as a reality?

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<v Speaker 3>There have actually been a couple of lucid moments.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember when I was 12, my dad's a Baptist pastor and we had a guest speaker come through church once.

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<v Speaker 3>So I grew up around people who use words for a living.

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<v Speaker 3>This guest speaker was like your iconic dorky motivational speaker.

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<v Speaker 3>I climbed a mountain.

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<v Speaker 3>You can climb mountains too, and I'm 12.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought this guy was pretty special and dad pulled me over and said hey, any words of wisdom for my young boy?

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<v Speaker 3>He's 12.

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<v Speaker 3>And this mountain climber said hey, phil, here's a piece of advice.

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<v Speaker 3>All mountains are hard to climb, but the view from the top of some is much better than others.

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<v Speaker 3>I was 12.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought what on earth are you talking about?

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<v Speaker 3>Like cool man, nice story.

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<v Speaker 3>See you later, can you sign my shirt?

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<v Speaker 3>But the older that I get, the more I realize how much wisdom is packed into that little statement is that it takes a lot of work and effort for just about everything.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got friends who are school teachers Holy smokes, do they work hard.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got friends who are CEOs Holy smokes, do they work hard.

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<v Speaker 3>But some work is disproportionately rewarding compared to others.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I do remember being very, very conscious.

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<v Speaker 3>Like I've chosen to create content, use words to change cultures and individuals' lives, and because of a couple of quirks in the way that some work is valued more than others, that kind of work is disproportionately rewarded.

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<v Speaker 3>So I do remember actually being really quite deliberate to say, if everything is hard-yacca, a strain for hard work, I want to be in a position where I can be disproportionately rewarded for the hard work that I do.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've chosen in time and time again to things that other people find hard, things that few people can do.

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<v Speaker 3>So this goes all the way back to Adam Smith.

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<v Speaker 3>So, for all the economics talks Adam Smith, the wealth of nations.

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<v Speaker 3>He says you gotta understand how value is created.

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<v Speaker 3>And, brad, not enough people get this in life.

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<v Speaker 3>Because the last 20 years, as people have moved into the knowledge economy, we've all been regaled with these stories of do what sets your heart on fire.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that idea.

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<v Speaker 3>I really, really love that idea.

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<v Speaker 3>However, sometimes the things that set my heart on fire, I'm not rewarded very well.

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<v Speaker 3>So I wanna be careful that I am oriented towards my passions and my sense of purpose, but also the things that I can use to provide for the people that I love most.

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<v Speaker 3>So Adam Smith said hey, if you wanna generate value, there's only two things that really really matter.

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<v Speaker 3>Find yourself like a bucket of work where not many people can do it, because where there's a lot of people who can do it, the pay will be small.

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<v Speaker 3>Where there's only few people who can do it, the pay will be big.

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<v Speaker 3>So I wanna orient myself towards things that other people can't do and orient myself towards things that people don't wanna do.

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<v Speaker 3>So what's top of that list?

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<v Speaker 3>Public speaking.

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<v Speaker 3>So I remember quite early on choosing into things that other people would find really scary or difficult and, in getting good at it, have been disproportionately rewarded for it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess that's part of the answer to this question.

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<v Speaker 2>What is the Phil success model or how does success happen?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have a formula for it?

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<v Speaker 2>What's your theory on how success happens for people?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, see earlier conversation about the need to ask questions for ourselves and to ourselves.

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<v Speaker 3>Imagine me picking up I didn't know somebody else's definition of success and just putting it on and just going, oh, this is how it works, and from time to time that's gonna be super informative, because that's the whole point of role models and following in other people's footsteps.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't wanna make the mistakes that are really kind of obvious.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean the late, great Charlie Munger.

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<v Speaker 3>He said hey, if you wanna be successful, there's a couple of things to avoid.

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<v Speaker 3>Have great relationships, don't cut your money in half All of these kinds of really simple things.

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<v Speaker 3>We can learn from the mistakes of others, but we really wanna be careful of wholeheartedly adopting everything that has defined success for them.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think self-awareness really really matters and I'm not sure it's a formula as much as it is an ongoing practice.

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<v Speaker 3>But self-awareness isn't something that we do.

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<v Speaker 3>Self-awareness is something that we can, best case scenario, arrive at incrementally if we continue to practice it.

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<v Speaker 3>So if self-awareness is an output or an outcome, self-reflection is the practice.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think just about more than anything else, the willingness to ask ourselves good questions and to open ourselves up to external influence.

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<v Speaker 3>Now you're talking about the input of people that we respect and trust, who have done it before, so I'm not sure it's a formula for success, as much as it is an ongoing practice that would lead to the kind of self-awareness that emergent qualities, better decisions, equanimity so calmness, endurance, tolerance for discomfort, all of those things that are the prerequisite parts of successful people, that are the building blocks of a successful life they all tumble out of self-awareness, and then we've got to remember self-awareness isn't something we do.

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<v Speaker 3>So what are the things that lead to self-awareness?

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<v Speaker 3>Slowing down, checking in, asking our self-high quality questions?

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<v Speaker 2>Relationship between failure and success.

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<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts?

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<v Speaker 2>Cool.

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<v Speaker 3>I really do subscribe to the belief that we only fail when we give up, and giving up isn't the same as when we stop, because, as entrepreneurs, we understand that you can stop doing one thing and start doing another, and because of the weirdness of our relationship with like stopping, as entrepreneurs, we just relabeled it.

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<v Speaker 3>We call it pivot, so we pivot, but really it's just code for like stop doing that, start doing that, or refine the process over time.

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<v Speaker 3>I really do think there is no failure for people who are prepared to just rumble forward.

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<v Speaker 3>It sounds so dorky, but our emotional relationship with the story of failure what does this say about me?

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<v Speaker 3>What will other people think?

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<v Speaker 3>Don't we know that great entrepreneurs don't get themselves into this pickle, all of which is untrue.

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<v Speaker 3>I call this terminal uniqueness syndrome.

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<v Speaker 3>Terminal uniqueness syndrome.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm the only one that's ever gone through this.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm the only one that understands this, and I'm going to die from it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just not true.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody hits the wall.

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<v Speaker 3>Everybody has like, tries their best.

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<v Speaker 3>This idea of our sole responsibility is to do what we know to do and if we find that it is not leading towards the outcomes that we had a hunch that it might be when we started putting those things into practice.

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<v Speaker 3>Then we pick up the clues and the cues and the new insights and then we put them into practice in the next thing.

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<v Speaker 3>So the relationship between failure and success is a very, very strong one, because no one comes out of the womb, no one comes into the workforce, no one like hangs a shingle and fucking nails it on the first try or on the first day.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a constant process of adjustments.

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<v Speaker 3>So my hunch is our speed of response really, really matters, and I know I'm going to start sounding like a little bit like a broken record, but I'm okay with that.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to then check in once every 365 days.

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<v Speaker 3>You know some people like they check in, they ask themselves the question is this working?

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<v Speaker 3>And God forbid, the last time I asked that question was 500 days ago and it was 499 days of stink.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, up until the current moment.

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<v Speaker 3>If I have the guts to check in regularly and be more committed to the goals that I have for myself, the outcomes that I'm working towards, then I am committed to the process or the steps that I thought would get me there.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to be focused on the thing that I'm going after more than I am committed to like the process, if that makes sense, because the process then can be up for grabs Anything that'll get me towards that end goal within remit of, you know, morals and ethics and all the things that we want to be about in life, but that's the goal, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>So if I stumble along the way, of course that's going to happen, because I'm made of flesh and blood and all we are doing is the best we can with what we've got.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, in the Big Success podcast we're going to take a quick break.

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<v Speaker 2>Then we're going to come back with film.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk into leadership and personal mastery and get deeper into this subject of how success happens.

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<v Speaker 4>There's never been a better time to become successful in life than right now.

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<v Speaker 4>Creating success in your life isn't about chance.

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<v Speaker 4>It's about learning what it takes to create a great life, and that's why Brad Sugar's put together 30X Life.

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<v Speaker 4>You get his 30 years of success in 30 minutes a day for 30 days.

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<v Speaker 4>You only get one shot at this thing called life.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's build an amazing life for you.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're back.

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<v Speaker 2>Big Success, phil.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to start with probably one of the more complex but easier subjects that you teach, and that is leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me more about how do we succeed as leaders today.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's challenging.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's worthwhile recognizing that fewer people aspire to leadership than ever before.

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<v Speaker 3>More people aspire to contribution, more people aspire to the outputs or the rewards of contribution and leadership, but fewer people really sit down and go.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what I want?

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<v Speaker 3>To take responsibility for other humans and the ecosystems that would allow them to thrive.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think if you look over our shoulder and you look at the volume of change that is in the system at the moment and the challenges of the last few years, it's okay to recognize that leadership is hard, and so there's recognition of leadership.

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<v Speaker 3>Aspiration is a really great place to start.

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<v Speaker 3>What's required for leadership is a willingness to take on the responsibility, the accountability, a willingness to tolerate the discomfort of other people holding you accountable to things that they might not be able to achieve for themselves at this point in time, to create space for other people to do great work and to create space for other people to thrive.

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<v Speaker 3>All of that is incredibly complex and it was captured in the question here.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's one or two things.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think leadership is.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's five easy bullet points or three easy steps to great leadership.

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<v Speaker 3>For anybody that would describe it like that, I would encourage myself, I would encourage you to hold on to your wallet and slowly walk backwards.

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<v Speaker 3>It doesn't mean that there aren't best practices for leadership, but, when it becomes too prescriptive, our only viable response to what creates great leaders.

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<v Speaker 3>What is the fuel of great leaders?

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<v Speaker 3>What are the practices and principles of great leadership?

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<v Speaker 3>You have to say.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it depends and it depends on the context.

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<v Speaker 3>It depends on who you're leading, it depends on the aspirations you have, it depends on the legacy of the ecosystem in which you're operating.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I really want to start any leadership conversation in this sense of curiosity.

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<v Speaker 3>What is it that matters?

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<v Speaker 3>What is it that you're working on?

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<v Speaker 3>What are the variables?

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<v Speaker 3>Without that kind of curiosity, you end up with a very mis-targeted set of recommendations that are beautiful in one context and utterly inappropriate in the next.

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<v Speaker 3>You hear quite commonly military leaders coming into fast-moving sales organizations or innovation-centric technology companies.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's how you lead and you're like that suits beautifully.

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<v Speaker 3>Well when you have clarity of a mission, when you have clear hierarchy and everybody is aligned to all of those things.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you're working in an environment filled with agile teams, flatter hierarchy, innovation as the goal, which is just code for when, making it up as we go, you'll find that the rules in this context don't apply neatly.

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<v Speaker 3>We can always learn from other aspects, but .

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<v Speaker 2>So that brings me to my next subject that you and I have spent a little time discussing historically, and that is personal mastery.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, this is a debate in my head always is it even possible, personal mastery?

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<v Speaker 2>And if it is, or to what degree it is, how do we do that?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's perfect.

00:18:45.353 --> 00:18:59.208
<v Speaker 3>The answer is no, because I don't think there has been a human being that has woken up let's call it a Tuesday morning and they check in with themselves physically, and they check in with themselves spiritually or emotionally and they go.

00:18:59.208 --> 00:19:02.165
<v Speaker 3>I've done it, this is it Like.

00:19:02.165 --> 00:19:04.031
<v Speaker 3>This is the pinnacle of my existence.

00:19:04.031 --> 00:19:05.576
<v Speaker 3>I've done it.

00:19:05.576 --> 00:19:07.049
<v Speaker 3>And then they run out onto the streets.

00:19:07.424 --> 00:19:17.512
<v Speaker 3>I know that history is full of stories and gorgeous myths of people who have transcended the human experience, but I haven't met one of those walking around.

00:19:17.512 --> 00:19:41.011
<v Speaker 3>I'm inspired by the stories and I'm informed here and I'm called forward into my highest potential by those kinds of things, but my experience is that it's a work in progress, and so personal mastery is janky labelling for the pursuit of excellence and this willingness to constantly refine.

00:19:41.011 --> 00:19:44.034
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's a quote by Muhammad Ali.

00:19:44.034 --> 00:19:59.406
<v Speaker 3>He says the man at 50 who was the same man at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life, and I find that one pretty bolstering, because to think that I would ever get to a stage where I'm like that's good enough, that's it.

00:19:59.406 --> 00:20:14.773
<v Speaker 3>I would be downplaying what's possible in my life and in the form of leadership to understand the relationship between how I lead myself, personal mastery and how that creates space for others.

00:20:15.505 --> 00:20:24.374
<v Speaker 3>One of the more true statements about leadership and this is like a post-it note or a poster on the wall is that what walks in the leaders runs in the team.

00:20:25.345 --> 00:20:41.452
<v Speaker 3>And so if we're looking at our teams and organizations and we think, ah, I wish there was more creativity, well, we know where to start, because wouldn't it be obnoxious to think that our team and our culture could somehow do things that we're not willing to go after for our own selves?

00:20:41.452 --> 00:20:52.575
<v Speaker 3>And so this is why, when we're starting with leaders, we go yes, beautiful vision, mission strategy, p&l statements like products and processes, good, good, good.

00:20:52.575 --> 00:21:05.471
<v Speaker 3>And all of that without a leader really having the willingness to look at themselves and understand the relationship between how they are leading themselves, how they are showing up, and then what reverberates into the culture.

00:21:05.471 --> 00:21:25.711
<v Speaker 3>Would be fooling ourselves if we think that a plan on a page, systems and processes could control for the errant behavior of a leader, or if a leader is smashing teams and leaving trails of human destruction, but all of their collateral is gorgeous and beautiful.

00:21:25.711 --> 00:21:27.282
<v Speaker 3>Just don't act.

00:21:27.282 --> 00:21:28.250
<v Speaker 3>In a way, that's not what you were.

00:21:29.184 --> 00:21:33.373
<v Speaker 2>OK, next subject you and I spent several hours on this subject in Hawaii.

00:21:33.373 --> 00:21:38.509
<v Speaker 2>First of all, give me the definition for everybody to understand it convergence.

00:21:40.615 --> 00:21:41.257
<v Speaker 3>Convergence.

00:21:41.257 --> 00:21:50.968
<v Speaker 3>Convergence is the idea that when we can bring things together that we've already got, that we'll end up with something more potent, more powerful and more useful.

00:21:50.968 --> 00:22:03.555
<v Speaker 3>Often, what I find is that people have more than enough ingredients for success, for impact, for contribution, but that combining them in useful ways.

00:22:03.555 --> 00:22:13.451
<v Speaker 3>And so a great example of a necessary convergence is to combine what we know with what we apply, our knowledge and our actions.

00:22:13.451 --> 00:22:19.609
<v Speaker 3>If our actions is separate from what we understand, what are we even doing?

00:22:19.609 --> 00:22:28.816
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I've got a bookshelf full of books back here and, assuming that I've put them into my head, what a waste of time if I don't put any of those into practice.

00:22:28.816 --> 00:22:34.173
<v Speaker 3>So convergence is bringing one thing together with the next in a way that leads to better results.

00:22:34.605 --> 00:22:38.295
<v Speaker 2>What are the key steps to doing that in business?

00:22:38.295 --> 00:22:40.651
<v Speaker 2>I guess is the main question of the day.

00:22:42.085 --> 00:22:49.256
<v Speaker 3>I would always encourage people to do something that I call a stock take, constantly doing stock takes.

00:22:49.256 --> 00:22:51.251
<v Speaker 3>What have we got to work with?

00:22:51.251 --> 00:22:53.731
<v Speaker 3>What is in my hand to use?

00:22:53.731 --> 00:23:01.771
<v Speaker 3>You know what are the great challenges of our era, where we've got the internet, goodness knows, we've got artificial intelligence.

00:23:01.771 --> 00:23:21.212
<v Speaker 3>Now, this experience that people have had, which is I don't have what it takes or I don't have all the resources that I need, we can put that firmly aside, because, with a quarter, you can go down to an internet kiosk in a supermarket and access all the information in the world.

00:23:21.212 --> 00:23:24.294
<v Speaker 3>This ability to constantly stock take, check in.

00:23:24.294 --> 00:23:30.832
<v Speaker 3>What have I got to work with, what are the goals that I have for myself and how can I bring those things together?

00:23:31.586 --> 00:23:41.714
<v Speaker 3>This, then, is classic behavior change methodology, which is, if I'm going to achieve anything, it's going to be really, really helpful for me to be very clear on what it is that I actually want to achieve.

00:23:42.384 --> 00:23:46.208
<v Speaker 3>You know this is a dorky metaphor, I know that, but it's a useful one.

00:23:46.208 --> 00:24:00.073
<v Speaker 3>Is that if you land into a city that you've never been to and you use maps technology to help you navigate, like find a way, find a route it's always going to ask you two points of location where you are now and where you want to go.

00:24:00.073 --> 00:24:04.515
<v Speaker 3>And it's not enough to be fuzzy on either of those things.

00:24:04.515 --> 00:24:08.869
<v Speaker 3>If you don't know where you are but you know where you want to go, you can't create a route.

00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:13.010
<v Speaker 3>If you know where you are but you don't know where you want to go, you can't create a route.

00:24:13.010 --> 00:24:25.555
<v Speaker 3>So the more clear we are on where we actually are, the more clear we are on where we actually want to go, even if it means breaking success down into smaller steps, we're going to be able to orient ourselves there more easily.

00:24:25.555 --> 00:24:35.670
<v Speaker 3>And so a personal stock take asking ourselves what are the pieces of the puzzle that I've got, what are the pieces of the puzzle that I'm missing, and how do I go about getting those things?

00:24:35.670 --> 00:24:36.814
<v Speaker 3>Love it.

00:24:37.484 --> 00:24:38.410
<v Speaker 2>Big success podcast.

00:24:38.410 --> 00:24:51.835
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to come back and I'm here here, phil Nosworthy, to talk to us about the difference between good and great, or good and amazing, or maybe just okay and good, but the difference between scaling from one level to the next.

00:24:51.835 --> 00:24:52.788
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back in a minute.

00:24:53.184 --> 00:24:56.895
<v Speaker 5>Phil Nosworthy is one of the world's leading corporate educators and mentors.

00:24:56.895 --> 00:25:07.553
<v Speaker 5>His insights into leadership, personal mastery and career acceleration have gained him a dedicated following among senior executives and high performers in fortune-listed companies around the world.

00:25:07.553 --> 00:25:11.853
<v Speaker 5>To learn more about Phil Nosworthy, please visit philnosworthycom.

00:25:12.464 --> 00:25:15.373
<v Speaker 2>Phil, good to great, amazing book.

00:25:15.373 --> 00:25:20.736
<v Speaker 2>You work with some of the greatest companies in the world.

00:25:20.736 --> 00:25:35.570
<v Speaker 2>When we look at it from the perspective of the Microsofts and Universal Music Boston Consulting, firstly, why is it that great companies keep bringing you in?

00:25:35.570 --> 00:25:36.888
<v Speaker 2>What is that?

00:25:39.277 --> 00:25:45.644
<v Speaker 3>I would love to know the answer to that, not just you, but you, me, other people like us.

00:25:45.954 --> 00:25:47.681
<v Speaker 2>Why do great companies do that?

00:25:49.116 --> 00:25:50.662
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean you're right.

00:25:50.662 --> 00:25:55.886
<v Speaker 3>Our current partner set is an absolute dream for me.

00:25:55.886 --> 00:26:12.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if you go back all the way to when I was folding clothes and you said, hey, phil, when you're 40, you're going to be advising the senior most teams of Microsoft and Oracle and Xbox and the Australian Football League and F1 in Australia, I would have giggled, I would have thrown it back in your face.

00:26:12.560 --> 00:26:25.903
<v Speaker 3>I think, in very real ways, what is helpful for so many leaders around the world is pragmatism and somebody willing to cut through the noise and to go.

00:26:25.903 --> 00:26:27.507
<v Speaker 3>This is all well and good.

00:26:27.815 --> 00:26:44.407
<v Speaker 3>However, insert very obvious question and I think this approach to leadership and impact that is rooted in pragmatism, when everybody else is so convinced that it's sophistication and complexity that's going to move people forward.

00:26:44.407 --> 00:26:52.685
<v Speaker 3>I think this is why I'm invited in and I know it seems like an indulgent answer, but for me, I think that's what people enjoy.

00:26:52.685 --> 00:27:06.103
<v Speaker 3>This is not me, you know, being some boat shoe wearing, chino wearing consultant from the Midwest, like a 27 year old that shows up from one of the major consulting firms and says, hey, here's how you do your strategy.

00:27:06.103 --> 00:27:28.056
<v Speaker 3>I think what we get to do is arbitrage common sense and we take insights from one context and bring it into the next, and so I think it's pragmatism and forthrightness and a willingness to ask the obvious things that maybe people inside of that ecosystem have a little bit too much at stake to call out.

00:27:29.894 --> 00:27:35.127
<v Speaker 2>What is the difference, then, between those good companies and those great companies?

00:27:35.127 --> 00:27:38.084
<v Speaker 2>You've been, you've consulted with both levels.

00:27:38.084 --> 00:27:38.875
<v Speaker 2>What's the?

00:27:38.875 --> 00:27:39.459
<v Speaker 2>Distinction.

00:27:39.459 --> 00:27:42.961
<v Speaker 2>What do you see the three or four or 10 things they do differently?

00:27:47.355 --> 00:27:49.903
<v Speaker 3>I think the growth mindset really, really matters.

00:27:49.903 --> 00:28:07.027
<v Speaker 3>I think how it shows up in organizations are commitment to excellence and it sounds like peak 1989 kind of statement commitment to excellence, but that willingness to not let it go until it's right.

00:28:07.027 --> 00:28:10.284
<v Speaker 3>You'll find that in the highest performing teams.

00:28:10.284 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 3>You'll find that stubbornness for high quality in the best organizations that you don't find in other places.

00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:21.902
<v Speaker 3>You could talk about talent acquisition.

00:28:21.902 --> 00:28:23.962
<v Speaker 3>You could talk about leadership development.

00:28:23.962 --> 00:28:27.424
<v Speaker 3>You could talk about encouraging and nurturing environments.

00:28:27.424 --> 00:28:49.468
<v Speaker 3>You could talk about psychological safety tick, tick, tick, tick, tick but without that rigorous commitment to doing good work, good work that changes equilibrium is that progresses people, that genuinely meets customer need All of those things show up in just a pure tenacity to do good work.

00:28:49.654 --> 00:28:53.945
<v Speaker 3>So you asked early what's the difference between good and great?

00:28:53.945 --> 00:28:55.538
<v Speaker 3>And I think it's not much.

00:28:55.538 --> 00:28:59.683
<v Speaker 3>And I think often people give up a little bit too soon.

00:28:59.683 --> 00:29:17.227
<v Speaker 3>We've all seen those little dorky cartoons of the minor who's digging and like the giant tunnel and there's that gorgeous diamond, the thing that he's looking for, and it's seconds away and you think to yourself how close is that breakthrough experience?

00:29:17.227 --> 00:29:25.048
<v Speaker 3>I think great teams are willing to hold that discomfort a whole lot longer before they go.

00:29:25.048 --> 00:29:26.659
<v Speaker 3>That's good enough, isn't it?

00:29:26.659 --> 00:29:29.721
<v Speaker 3>That sense of that's good enough.

00:29:29.721 --> 00:29:33.344
<v Speaker 3>You don't find that in the highest performing teams.

00:29:33.344 --> 00:29:42.923
<v Speaker 3>All you find instead is a willingness and tenacity to keep going until it is exactly what they thought it could or should be.

00:29:43.916 --> 00:29:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to flip it over just for a second.

00:29:45.800 --> 00:29:53.346
<v Speaker 2>Some people set goals that are really just to do list items.

00:29:53.346 --> 00:29:57.144
<v Speaker 2>We're going to grow by 10 percent in the business.

00:29:57.144 --> 00:30:02.365
<v Speaker 2>Other people massively challenge themselves and their companies and their teams.

00:30:02.365 --> 00:30:14.467
<v Speaker 2>What have you seen is the difference between the two types of teams or people that really go for massive challenge and massive goals rather than just settling for easy goals?

00:30:16.398 --> 00:30:18.444
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it depends on the size of the organization.

00:30:18.444 --> 00:30:24.405
<v Speaker 3>It's that book, and if I was writing a book on leadership and growth today, I reckon that would be the title.

00:30:24.405 --> 00:30:33.321
<v Speaker 3>It depends because if you're a team of 15 and you're quite a flat structure, you need everybody to just nail it in their category.

00:30:33.321 --> 00:30:45.666
<v Speaker 3>Unless you have a dedicated human that is working on moonshot projects, you might be really excited about 10 percent growth or 15 percent year on year growth.

00:30:45.666 --> 00:31:06.463
<v Speaker 3>If you're a behemoth like Microsoft 220,000 staff have been showing up for talent development, executive development there for 11 years and super privileged to do it you have the comparative luxury of having humans to go specifically into projects where you're not convinced that they're going to work.

00:31:06.463 --> 00:31:11.143
<v Speaker 3>But goodness knows, we've got to go for that giant breakthrough, leap forward.

00:31:11.143 --> 00:31:18.409
<v Speaker 3>So, I think, the willingness to ask the questions where are we at in our age and stage of development?

00:31:18.409 --> 00:31:21.628
<v Speaker 3>What is the size of my staff group?

00:31:21.628 --> 00:31:23.622
<v Speaker 3>What is the capacity of my staff group?

00:31:23.622 --> 00:31:29.597
<v Speaker 3>Have I hired somebody in for a role and then expected to be able to slap on innovation over the top?

00:31:29.597 --> 00:31:45.448
<v Speaker 3>It depends, but in any regard, I think growth progress really, really matters, obviously Our ability to keep moving forward towards something that is better than we have been in the past.

00:31:45.734 --> 00:32:02.722
<v Speaker 3>I know this sounds really, really dorky and I know that I'm the white guy quoting Maya Angelou, but she said back then you did what you knew to do, but now that you know better, you'll do better For our teams and the kinds of leaders that we want to be.

00:32:02.722 --> 00:32:11.982
<v Speaker 3>If we're busy self-reflecting and telling them stories of, ah, last week I was doing like this, today I'm going to optimize so that tomorrow we can do this.

00:32:11.982 --> 00:32:22.621
<v Speaker 3>We want that to infect our teams so that, by nature of them coming into the office every single day, they are always going for growth, they are always looking for opportunity.

00:32:22.621 --> 00:32:31.317
<v Speaker 3>I think it should show up suffused in the organization, regardless of the volume or the size of the staff group.

00:32:31.317 --> 00:32:36.979
<v Speaker 3>But the bigger we are, the more luxury we have to go good, these systems and processes in place.

00:32:36.979 --> 00:32:39.506
<v Speaker 3>Let's go for that next wild breakthrough.

00:32:40.738 --> 00:32:43.138
<v Speaker 2>All right, short fire, rapid round.

00:32:43.138 --> 00:32:44.282
<v Speaker 2>Let's go with it.

00:32:44.282 --> 00:32:51.166
<v Speaker 2>You know, as a dad, as a husband, you get to live on the beautiful beaches of Sydney.

00:32:51.166 --> 00:32:53.358
<v Speaker 2>I want your thoughts.

00:32:53.358 --> 00:32:54.816
<v Speaker 2>One word.

00:32:54.816 --> 00:32:57.323
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to throw at you one or two words back from you.

00:32:57.323 --> 00:32:58.595
<v Speaker 2>What's your answer, please?

00:32:58.595 --> 00:33:00.262
<v Speaker 2>Succeed at health?

00:33:00.262 --> 00:33:04.117
<v Speaker 2>Well, pay attention.

00:33:04.117 --> 00:33:07.497
<v Speaker 2>How do we succeed at relationships?

00:33:09.329 --> 00:33:10.473
<v Speaker 3>Listen more than we talk.

00:33:11.930 --> 00:33:14.115
<v Speaker 2>How do you succeed at goals?

00:33:14.115 --> 00:33:30.978
<v Speaker 2>Have them, how do you succeed at life Having fun, enjoying it, making a priority and, final one, how do you succeed at self-development?

00:33:33.130 --> 00:33:34.796
<v Speaker 3>With compassion and patience.

00:33:34.796 --> 00:33:37.356
<v Speaker 3>You can't flog yourself to greatness.

00:33:37.356 --> 00:33:39.435
<v Speaker 3>You've got to nurture yourself.

00:33:39.830 --> 00:33:44.028
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I spent a lot of time with my team on that this week that you know.

00:33:44.028 --> 00:33:46.016
<v Speaker 2>You set the dream, you set the goal.

00:33:46.016 --> 00:33:51.142
<v Speaker 2>Well, you've got to give yourself three or six or 12 months to learn it.

00:33:51.142 --> 00:33:53.938
<v Speaker 2>You can't just go okay, I got the goal, let's go.

00:33:53.938 --> 00:33:57.439
<v Speaker 2>No, you have to have patience in your learning capability.

00:33:57.439 --> 00:34:02.292
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, six months to learn how to even write the plan, for goodness sake, let alone get to work.

00:34:02.292 --> 00:34:04.434
<v Speaker 2>So I love that answer.

00:34:04.434 --> 00:34:05.010
<v Speaker 2>All right.

00:34:05.010 --> 00:34:11.878
<v Speaker 2>Final question for Phil Naswer Best quote or best advice you ever got on the subject of success?

00:34:14.132 --> 00:34:17.561
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like asking who's your favorite kid or what's the best movie.

00:34:17.561 --> 00:34:26.173
<v Speaker 3>The one that comes to mind, quite controversially, by this artist is an artist by the name of Kanye West.

00:34:26.173 --> 00:34:31.822
<v Speaker 3>Whether we like him or not, he had a song called everything I'm not made me, everything I am.

00:34:31.822 --> 00:34:38.614
<v Speaker 3>And so to understand success, I think, is to understand choice and to understand that we've got to make decisions.

00:34:38.614 --> 00:34:52.813
<v Speaker 3>The more clever we are, the more options we have in life, but the longer we hold all of those options available to us without fully committing, the further and further we are away from success.

00:34:52.813 --> 00:34:58.101
<v Speaker 3>So the ability to choose something and go for it with full commitment really, really matters.

00:34:58.101 --> 00:35:06.041
<v Speaker 3>So Kanye West song everything I'm not made me, everything I am is a really great hallmark of successful people Commitment.

00:35:06.684 --> 00:35:07.590
<v Speaker 2>Big success podcast.

00:35:07.590 --> 00:35:08.856
<v Speaker 2>I'm Brad Sugar as your host.

00:35:08.856 --> 00:35:11.376
<v Speaker 2>We'll be back next week with more on your success.

00:35:11.376 --> 00:35:13.976
<v Speaker 2>And that's the big success podcast for today.

00:35:13.976 --> 00:35:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully you took a lot of notes, learned a whole bunch and, if you need to go re-listen to it, we dropped a lot of information right there today.

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.336
<v Speaker 2>Big success is what it's all about.

00:35:23.336 --> 00:35:30.077
<v Speaker 2>And, by the way, if you haven't subscribed, hit that subscribe button so you're here with us every single week on the big success podcast.

00:35:30.077 --> 00:35:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm Brad Sugar.

00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:31.501
<v Speaker 2>That's BS.

00:35:31.501 --> 00:35:33.536
<v Speaker 2>Big success is what we're shooting for.

00:35:33.536 --> 00:35:36.197
<v Speaker 2>Check the show notes for all the links.

00:35:36.197 --> 00:35:39.039
<v Speaker 2>Make sure you follow through, keep learning, keep coming back.

00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and, by the way, share this with any of your friends who you know are up for success.

00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.958
<v Speaker 2>I'll see you next week on the Big Success Podcast.

00:35:47.474 --> 00:35:53.117
<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to the Big Success Podcast with the number one business coach in the world, Brad Sugar's.

00:35:53.117 --> 00:36:02.675
<v Speaker 1>To learn more about how to achieve business and personal success, as well as how to level up or listen to past episodes, visit wwwbradsugarscom.