Catching Fire with Smoke with Michael Hobby

 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's Radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 If it's Radical, we cover it and I'm pretty pumped today.
 You know, I have all of my needs and wants and tastes all in one here, not only with the
 cool dude and someone who I'm calling a friend now, but who's just a fucking badass, you
 know.
 Michael, I'm just going to tell it like it is.
 Michael Hobby, lead singer of a thousand horses, artist, writer, and a friend.
 It's good to have you brother, man.
 Hey, man.
 Just get to be here and get to call you a friend and by all we met that night, I'll
 get like three bus.
 It's a good story.
 You know.
 Another great story.
 I'm hoping like, you know, like 30 years from now and, you know, you've got 20 number
 ones behind you and everything else and we're sitting on the porch somewhere having a beer
 and, you know, we'll look back and go.
 We met on hold.
 Jaren's cat like three bus leg guy.
 We met all that guys.
 He's one of the oldest friends and I love that dude.
 I look for Jeremy and Neil.
 It was a good timing for me.
 I was home to see my family in South Carolina and my brother wanted to go out there because
 he's a band and they ran and I was like, oh, well, yeah, we got to go.
 Yes.
 I'm glad you did.
 Got a pair of saying a little song too and got on stage and I'm like, damn.
 And then I was told in the calls like, Jaren had text me.
 Who helped me up?
 But I'm glad we met, man.
 I've been a fan of your music just didn't know you personally and now getting to know
 you and Caroline personally, just my kind of people.
 And I'm really just excited for people to hear, you know, the music industry is interesting.
 I've learned and I know you can tell me, tell us all the stories there.
 But I think just, I don't know, getting underneath the music and, you know, what it takes to
 be an artist today.
 And I don't know the highs and the lows, but let's just start, Michael, again, with just
 kind of that journey and that story, you know, like, what made you want to become a rock
 star, country rock star?
 Yeah.
 Man, you know, I got into music when I was around, you know, I got to get tall when I was
 11, 11, 12.
 What I was with my mom, she's the drag one of the dog and barns, the fair line, which,
 you know, statter day auction and there was a guitar there that was going up for auction
 and I didn't have any money and the lady wanted 25 bucks for it.
 And I told her, I'd help her load all her stuff up as she bought to, if I could, if I could
 get the guitar, she said, well, if you help me load everything, I'll give it to you for
 20 bucks.
 And I was like, okay.
 So I went and begged my mom for a $29, I still owe her 20 bucks to this day.
 And I got the guitar and I went home and just kind of never looked back.
 You know, I stayed, I grew up way out in the country and didn't have a lot of things
 around.
 So I just stayed in my room and learn how to play and, you know, kind of dove in and never,
 never changed.
 It was what I wanted to do, moment forward and just worked.
 My ass off trying to, you know, find man members at a small town and, and Columbia and
 Greenville were closest big cities and putting in ads in the paper to get calls for people
 to come try out.
 And finally, just kept pride and man, I don't know if you guys remember 93.5.
 Oh, yeah.
 In Columbia.
 Oh, yeah.
 But they were doing the local's lot and crocodile rocks.
 Oh, yeah.
 Yeah.
 We were the T-shirts.
 They had T-shirts.
 That was a cool thing.
 We had a crocodile rock T-shirt.
 Yeah.
 Banana Janna was crocodile.
 Yeah.
 All that shit was popping.
 And we entered into that and we ended up winning the whole thing and getting it going
 to radio station and, and, and, and play a song with you and got some recording time.
 I think the jam room is what that studio was called and made a little demo tape and just
 started, you know, my, my dad meant a guy that was in Nashville.
 And this was all I was, I was in ninth grade.
 I saw him as in high school and my guitar player, Bill, he's my best friend.
 He was in the band and met a guy through my dad that produced records in Nashville and,
 and, and we talked to him for a little while and we moved here in 2005 to chase the dream,
 you know.
 And, and learn very quickly, uh, which is, uh, it's, it's funny that we met up,
 Jerry's bus, but Jerry and was one of the first guys I met.
 When I moved to town, I went to, it was, his band was bang, bang, bang, bang.
 Um, and it was him and Neil and Kelbee still.
 And I went to their show at this club called 12th and quarter and I remember Bill and
 I looking at each other going, holy shit, we got to practice.
 Like, we had to get better and the bar was raised.
 The bar was right.
 Welcome to town, you know, yeah, the sit in South Carolina, a little newberry.
 All right.
 So, you know, we dug into that, became friends with us and played locally at Buds and it
 did as much as we could nationally, you know, a, a, a car and a trailer and then to
 a van and a trailer, um, which led us to, I mean, we moved here in our five, our, our
 first record deal was in 2009.
 We got our first record deal on inner scope records, you know, after, so 10 year town,
 I guess, or not.
 That was five years.
 Um, but, and we thought, man, here we got, we're out and seeing the list and, and living
 there for a few weeks or a month at a time and started making a record and about time
 we finished.
 There was an EP, five songs, which is, I think still out, still available on, uh, dreaming
 and whatnot now, but that didn't, shit, streaming and stuff didn't exist then, you know.
 Yeah.
 Um, now you're, you're, you're, you're Napster, iPod or whatever the hell it was, right?
 Oh, I remember Napster, Napster was good.
 Yeah.
 Not good for my business, but good.
 Yeah, right.
 Exactly.
 Um, anyways, and, you know, as, as quick as that began, you know, that went away, you
 know, at that time, we were probably on that label for a year.
 And we toured relentlessly during that time, came back to Nashville, uh, regrouped.
 I've kind of only given you, I guess, the bullet points of this story.
 No, it's good, though, man.
 I don't know.
 It's good.
 We'll dig into some of that, uh, regrouped and then, uh, got a record deal with Big
 Machine, you know, a few years later in a country label, you know, and what are you doing
 in between that time?
 Are you just on the Nashville, like, are you working side jobs?
 Are you like, what are you, how are you piecing it all together?
 I mean, like between gigs and all that.
 Yeah.
 Well, we, we didn't really never made any money playing gigs.
 I mean, if we did, it was, it was, it was, it was peanuts, but, yeah, man, we, yeah,
 we had jobs out.
 I worked at Buckle, selling clothes here in Cool Springs.
 And then, uh, Bill, our guitar player, he worked at a restaurant downtown.
 He was a waiter and he was doing that.
 Yeah.
 Uh, and, you know, everybody else was kind of musician friends that would play with us.
 Or we'd give him a little bit of money to play with, and, uh, the, our best player,
 grandma's, Bill's cousin.
 So he moved up right after high school and, and like, oh, seven, when he graduated, he
 just, he literally walked out of the front door to his car and drove straight to here.
 Um, this was before the Big Machine thing.
 Um, yeah.
 Yeah.
 Anyways, we, we signed a Big Machine and in between then, what we did is we worked
 odd jobs here and there, you know, and, and did whatever it took to make a buck.
 I got a publishing deal before all that.
 So with Warner Chappell, and that was like my first, getting, getting money to be a writer.
 Yeah.
 You know, and that was a huge, I was a game changer for me because I got, I got a little
 pub deal and finally had, I didn't have to do any other jobs.
 I could just write and then lead to the record deal.
 And man, we, we, in that process, we had made that first record.
 A lot of people don't know this, but we, we're working with Dave Cobb.
 He was our producer at the time and, uh, we, this was before Dave was Dave.
 We went into his home studio and we made that record with, like, on our credit cards,
 like, and we didn't, you know, Dave was so nice.
 He didn't charge us for anything, but we had to pay these musicians and the stuff that
 would come in.
 And I remember, I'll never forget it.
 And we were walking in his driveway and all four of us in the band were all our phones
 with credit card companies trying to get whatever little wire credit we could get a piece.
 None of us had any money or any credit.
 I mean, and finally, uh, I'd become friends with a, a great guy, by the name of,
 and he went out here, he was a part of a local bank called Avenue bank, but now it's
 a pinnacle bank.
 And, and I called him and I said, we can't get a credit card to give us any money to finish
 this record, but I know this record is great.
 And he said, how about this, I, I'll loan you enough money that sweeping my parking
 lots could pay for.
 And I said, you got a deal.
 So he gave us 15 grand.
 Um, and we made the repaired, it landed us a record deal with Big Machine.
 And we were off for the races, right?
 We ended up going back here with Big Machine and repicking the record and adding a few
 songs.
 And thank God we did because that's when smoke came in and, uh, the drug dial already
 been written.
 And then the song on the record code where I'm going came in that I've written.
 And they were kind of like the 11th long for the record.
 And I brought a root smoke on a Thursday, played it for the guys.
 They were sent it to everybody late, late Thursday night and Friday morning, my phone was
 blowing up from our label and the band of like, man, guys, this, this is it.
 Our label is like with this one.
 So we went right into the studio on Saturday, cut that song first.
 And it was our first single out of the gate, which so they knew it.
 They heard it.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Before, I mean, that's their job, I guess, you know, and yeah, it just kind of came out of
 the blue, man, um, you know, what I wrote it, I thought it was great.
 And I liked it.
 But you know, I just turned it in like I always did.
 And yeah, the Big Machine ran with it.
 And it was, uh, and then it was the highest day viewing single on the chart, uh, in history
 from a group.
 And we came in at like 26 out of the gate, which is, was unheard of.
 So we were actually like smoke.
 Yeah.
 I was like, holy shit.
 Here we go.
 Uh, you know, we lost the inner scope deal.
 Now we're Big Machine.
 And now we got to hit on the radio that we, we, the rocket took off, you know, and,
 and it never really stopped, you know, after that.
 And, and so smoke is no one dropped out, you know, it goes, it gets like top 15.
 And then things kind of started to get shaky, which was wild at the time.
 And you know, shortly after that, we're, you know, we're on the Jason out of the, so
 we're, we're torn with various rocker, we're torn with Jason out, Dean and Thomas
 Rhett, brothers, eyes more, um, and, and just on top of the world, man.
 And then the deal with Big Machine fell apart, right, kind of in the middle of all that,
 which was super deflating, you know, I mean, it was a bummer.
 And then we came all and then and we were like, well, what are we going to do here?
 And then boom, we got the kid rock tour right after that, like his tour back.
 And, and we went out and did that.
 And then in the process, so what we did is we repeated, you know, we're in a way better
 position than we ever had been.
 So we went and put up our own money and went back in with Dave and made a record.
 And while we were making that record, we got another record deal from Electra and
 Dave's label, Low Country Sound and we were like, hey, well, yeah, we got another deal.
 This is our third at this point, yeah, major label deal.
 And we finished the record, geared up, ready to go.
 We had a few week European tour and then a US tour.
 And it was March of 2020 and we're on the plane from Nashville.
 We stopped in Charlotte to get on the big plane to go across the, the, the pod to play
 our European tour and we get off the plane to Charlotte because they ban international
 travel and our whole world shut down, you know, right in the middle of that gear up to
 go at it again.
 And as you know, I mean, things for a lot of people got tough during that time and still
 now are tough and it brought our world to a halt, which was a real bitch and a lot of
 our friends.
 I mean, so many people.
 It was just kind of a shitty time, a terrible time for everybody.
 And in that process, we, the year or in two years, we weren't really on the road touring
 or cutting tour, you know, we parted ways with Electra and Atlantic in that time period
 and we fired our manager for parted ways with it, firing such a harsh word.
 Yeah.
 Different directions.
 Yeah.
 We went different directions and, and we had this record that we had back.
 So we did what we always did and we put our heads down and, and dove into it.
 We, well, with a new manager for a little bit, put this record out, you know, and, and
 now we're just now starting to come back from the, the two years or three years, really
 of dealing with the, the, the sludge of, of what happened.
 And in that process, in the last year, we made another record.
 So we have that record that's not, has it been released yet?
 You've heard something.
 Oh, yeah.
 I can't wait to talk about it.
 And, and now we're, you know, back in the game, you know, we're just, you know, it's
 it.
 If you don't stop, it won't stop.
 We got a million re, the quit.
 And, you know, our, our true parks and belief and an artistry of what we do is what keeps
 us going.
 You know, it's the little wind the longer way and the highs and lows that keep you moving
 towards the bigger success, but it's been a process, man.
 I mean, that, that started from when I was a kid and moving to Nashville when I was 18,
 right out of high school, with just a dream to now and it's been very, it's been very
 great.
 So like, very good.
 And it's also been shitty, you know, like anything else and frustrating and the music
 business, you know, it can be frustrating, very frustrating.
 It's not, it's like, it's not, it's, it's unlike any other business in the world, I think,
 you know, with what it's based off of.
 And you learn something new every day and, and you grow and adapt.
 We're excited about this new record.
 We're excited about the things we have lined up for it and being back out on the road,
 starting probably in May.
 I think it's when we start back up to be out through the summer.
 And we'll see now where this journey and this record takes us, you know, that's all
 we can do.
 Hey, it's like every record is a different journey.
 I mean, in a way, but before I go there, man, it's, I think for someone listening and
 myself getting to know you, it's, smoke was just such a fire hit and obviously told
 that story.
 But people don't realize the trials, tribulations, the ups, like they just don't understand, I
 think is fascinating hearing the true journey, you know, from the passion as a kid to, you
 know, you're working at Buckle, you're in between like, you do all these things, you've
 had a record label and all that, ups, downs, all that.
 I think people just think these things, you go into a factory and, you know, it hits
 spit out and like, but there's just such a journey there that's unlike a lot of other
 career paths.
 Just like you said, it's very unique.
 Yeah, there is, man, I mean, it's, it, there's so many things that have to line up and
 come together at the same time.
 I mean, some people call that magic, some people call it the stars are lighting and it,
 it really truly is and it's, it's, it's nothing, you, that's the problem with it.
 You can't, you can't pinpoint like, this is what works and this is how you do it and
 it'll work again and again and again, like it's not repeatable.
 It's not a rinse and repeat thing and it's, and it's based off, you know, criticism
 of it, you know, it's based off like, who likes it and who doesn't, like it's completely
 opinion, opinionized whether a song works and then inner workings that go on that on
 the business side or, you know, all just have to line up and, and you don't ever know
 why or there's no reason, you know, why a song works, why a song doesn't work.
 You just gotta keep trying and, and, and, and keep going and trying to be better and,
 improve yourself and be a better writer, be a performer and, and also just deal with life
 in the same sense, you know, you know, a lot of us, we got married, we got kids, you
 know, in this process of, you know, the, the, the growing pains of learning how to be
 those things.
 I mean, the learning how to be a husband and then learn to be a father could think, that's
 a whole nother department, especially when you're on a, a, a country rock and roll band
 tour in the world and you're gone and you're back and forth, you know, it's a lot to adjust
 to, but it's, it's wonderful, I love it, you know, that's why we all do it, you can't
 stop.
 Let me ask you this, you know, the politics side, you, you started to go there a little
 bit, you know, and I'm, I keep coming back to smoke because there's such a before and
 after and then today, and I'll definitely want to get to the new album, which is fire.
 The, it's interesting because I see it as if, if the right person wants to make your song
 big, it seems like it can be manufactured in a way, but the counter to that for me is
 smoke.
 I remember hearing it the first time that I was like, that's fire hit.
 Like, I mean, I just, it's just so catchy and told story and you just never heard it,
 like position that way, the, the whole story within the story of the song, but they heard
 it.
 And so again, it's not just politics.
 They obviously, cause like you said, you sitting in over the next morning, you were recording
 that tomorrow.
 Like, they immediately know, so obviously it's not just politics.
 It's obviously talent and a, you know, the right formula coming together, but like, because
 for the longest time, I was just like, well, if the right person knows you, they can make
 your hit a hit, but it still has to have substance.
 I'm just curious.
 Like, you know, like, that process.
 Like, yes, there, there, there still has to be that, that magic or that, that connection
 in it that you can't, you can't make up.
 But you know, always tell people to it, it's, it's, it's just, it's not that somebody
 has to hear your song.
 It's the right person has to hear what you do and align with what they believe, yeah,
 you know, and, and that person is very important, fighting for you and, and making sure it's
 heard and making sure you get the opportunity to give it its best, life, you know, for a song.
 So it, it's, you know, if you get a thousand, it was all you're looking for is wanting
 it.
 And it's the right person, you know, some people don't get it.
 Some people do.
 And when that happened to us, you know, there was a lot of people that were like, y'all
 are fucking crazy for signing up, they're y'all are fucking crazy for thinking that songs
 that hit.
 And it's just as many people said, well, this is a no-brainer, you know, yeah, it's, it's
 always, you're always up against the critic, you know, especially in the business.
 And, you know, like, not to talk about another artist, but like Luke Palms has that story
 of when he came to town, and he played a major player in this business, you know, four,
 five songs, and the guy told him to go home, that none of those were hits, and he'd never
 make it in this town.
 And all five of those songs were five monster number one hit, you know, and, and he just
 took that as, well, fuck you, and he kept going, yeah, and that's it.
 And I'll hit that door.
 So that's, that's the, the rule that you play every day with a frog is you just, you
 do the best you can, and you put it in the chamber, and, and pull the trigger man, and, and
 you don't know what's going to happen.
 Well, let's just go there, because I was texting you while I was having, you know, probably
 my fourth bargherita in Mexico, you know, listening to this, you know, listening to this
 ain't no drunk dial, and which, which is, it was a, I don't know what's number one versus
 number seven, but let's just call it, it was a, it was a fucking jam hit.
 And, you know, I know, I'm not good at a lot of things, but I've always been good at
 hearing a ringer, and that was, that's a ringer.
 I don't know how much you can share, I mean, I know you're not going to bash the label
 or anything, but like that thing was rising, and I'm trying to understand exactly why,
 or how, you're with a label, you have smoke, number one, fastest hit song on the charts
 ever, you've got a clear, even if it wasn't smoke, it's not, you know, 20 steps behind.
 It's a close number two to being a hit jam.
 How did it go south, or why did that momentum, I mean, what, what makes them not go, well,
 there's not another one behind this, you know, I can't quite get my head around that.
 That makes two of us, man, you know, that, those kind of things are above my pay grade when
 it comes to it, I don't know what happened with that song, I don't, I don't know where,
 you know, any, if or any, what balls got dropped, you know, like I said, we were, we were
 kind of on that rocket ship, I mean, that was frustrating, you know, for us coming out
 of the gate with such a heater, but in, and, and all things considered, that song was a hit.
 It just, it didn't ring in number one, it was top 20, so I mean, so that's a, that's
 a winner, right?
 Yeah.
 And it didn't ring in number one, Bill, with, you know, looking back now was a bummer
 then, but now I look at it and go, well, shit, man, I can still hit.
 Yeah, that's, that's, that's incredible.
 But what, that's the things behind the scenes and the politics of things that I, I, I don't
 know, you know, I don't, that's where whatever the label was thinking or whatever they had
 coming or whatever they wanted to go with, or, or, you know, they always call out research
 and, and all these things that as an artist, you're like, what, what, what are you, what
 are you talking about?
 Yeah.
 Like, like, are you calling people on the phone and playing 20 second clips?
 Yeah.
 Right.
 However many people hang up, goes against you if the song is good or not.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 You know, so that, that was a, you know, that was deflating at the time.
 But why didn't they go, but, but if you had, you had, you've got, look, by any measure
 of success, I would, you correct me.
 You, you have a, a, a heater number one in a top 20 number two, two songs that hit that
 high, I think would be a marker of success of the album overall for just about any group.
 A number one, if you get one number one, I mean, that's probably a successful album.
 So why did it fall?
 Why?
 Why wasn't it immediately?
 We don't need to, you know, Michael, we need four, ten more songs and, you know, let's,
 ring it up again.
 I mean, you know, so maybe there's no, we'll never quite understand that one song.
 I guess I just don't follow why it wasn't like, let's ring up another, you know.
 And, you know, and those conversations were had.
 And we had songs lined up, but then we kind of got caught, we kind of got lost.
 You know, is a, is a band.
 You know, to be honest, and, and with the, the business of, of the, of the music world,
 and, you know, the pressures coming from the other side of changing producers, changing
 who you're writing with, changing, trying to find, it's kind of like always described
 it as like the sky is falling, mentality, and, and it never really was, but it was being
 treated that way.
 So as an artist, like it's, it's, it happens all the time where you get lost, and you
 lose your identity that made you what it was, what you were, and you, you lose focus
 on what you started in the beginning, because you got all these other, you got pressure
 on you from the other side, and, you know, it, it gets rushed, and, you know, haste makes
 waste, and, and money gets spent, and, you know, it, it, it, it just kind of implodes,
 you know, it, it's a great recipe for disaster, for an artist's career, you know, it's like,
 we love you, you're great, we want to do this, can we change everything, you know, it,
 and it, it, it's fucked up, but it happens, yeah, it happens a lot, you know, people wonder
 what happens to people or people, you know, wonder what happens to songs, and, and I think
 that's kind of what we got called in, man, it was just a, it was a, it is wild, that
 that's how that played out, because like any other person, or any other situation, you
 go, all right, man, shoot, we have two hits off first record, let's go in and make another
 record, and I'll have a couple hits off that, and then make another record, we're building
 this thing, exactly, for long term, and that wasn't the case for us in this situation
 we were in, coming to find out, yeah, so we've gone independent, right, we're independent,
 yeah, I mean, initially, I mean, but open to possibilities, right, you don't, you know,
 necessarily, absolutely, man, I mean, you know, we're, we're, we're older, wiser, and more
 experienced now, and, and, and we got to go make the record we wanted to make, and we
 used our judgment, our, our, our inner compass to, to do that, and there are other opportunities
 out there for us now, which we're incredibly grateful for, and, and we'll continue to,
 just, just drive, so yeah, we're, we're open to kind of any scenario to help level up
 what we've already built, you know, the business has changed so much, I mean, like, talking
 with Michael Habby, lead singer of a thousand horses, you know, we've talked about this,
 I mean, the streaming game and TikTok, and like, you know, there's never been a time to,
 you know, to be able to do it your own self, like, you don't, you need it, don't get
 wrong, radio's still important, but damn, like, you can make a lot of hay on your own these
 days, it's a little different in it. Absolutely, man, that's, we talk about that all the
 time, how much the, the landscape has changed in the last, you know, five years, and, and
 yeah, it's unbelievable, man, I mean, the opportunity for, for people to get their socks out
 and get them heard and build a career and really make a living doing it and, and, and do what
 they want to do is, if, it's, it's limitless, to be honest, and that's exciting, you know,
 I think artists are kind of realizing that and I think in labels realize that for sure, and
 there's still, you know, the gatekeepers of the world and all that, but it's, it's, it's, it's
 changing. Yeah, and, and, and just like you said, through TikTok and through social media platforms
 and, and, and, and where you can be heard and reach an audience is, it's wide open, which
 also is kind of scary because it, it's not the way it used to be. Yeah. So you got to change
 and adapt and, and move towards that and go against settings that you don't know how to do, you
 know, we're, we're, we're kind of a man that was caught, we're caught in like the middle of
 another, like, you know, when we, when we had smoke and big machine, like Spotify was not
 something that we were allowed to really support, you know, it was a new thing and nobody knew,
 you do with it, we loved it. And they've been incredibly great, they've been great to us and,
 and then it came in as an app that it's all about, you know, it's, it's the, I'll tell people
 like the, the, the gut instinct that used to be on something is very hard to come by now. It's
 really based off your, your, your, the word metrics always comes to mind of what you're doing. Same
 similar thing with what you do with your podcast, you know, I mean, you know, it was listening,
 you know, when, and all that, and we didn't have that, you know, back, you know, 10 years ago. Yeah.
 So rhythms and everything else, the, so I mean, you guys shop and, you know, look,
 for by listening, the new album's fire, it's, it's like, you need, if you go listen to like,
 couple there of Michael and the groups of original songs, I mean, it feels sound familiar, it's like
 a, it's familiar, but, you know, I actually like, what is it? What's the, you know, like, it's
 like country, but fucking way bigger. It's like, yeah, I'm like, but it is, man, it's just,
 there's like this Americana, this rock to it, there's, you know, I know always sort of that,
 I don't know, and I grew up like black crazily loving it. Like, there's a certain just
 rock vibe with your stuff that's always present. It's always got a little bit of the country,
 it's, it's there, but dude, I mean, there's just some jams on that and they're all different.
 Like, I just, I went from track to track, um, in a really good way, it just felt almost,
 it felt like a thousand horses, but it felt like every song felt like an experience,
 in and of it. Sometimes you listen to now, when you kind of like, not every song sounds the same,
 but like, there's just like this thing, but I was like, I just kind of felt like I was going
 on a different trip every time. One was to trip down to Charleston, one was I was headed Nashville
 to party my ass off, one I was like, going out to the field to make out with my wife. I mean,
 it was just, it was like all over the map. Yeah, that's good. Well, man, I mean, that's,
 thank you for saying that and that's what we were kind of going for. You know, we,
 we want our record to be a journey through the whole thing. You know, we want to pay attention
 to that detail to give people an experience. I mean, just because, you know, it's a singles world
 and songs come out that way. It's like, well, we can still create a, keep a little bit of the old
 graph. A record that's good, like a, a pile of work that says who you are and expresses your,
 your emotions and your feelings towards it that, you know, hopefully connects, you know, a song
 on that record can make a neck of somebody and not the other person, but they got, there's one
 for everybody on. Yeah. And, and apply it to your life and story. So, yeah, I'm glad you feel
 that way. That's, that was what we were going for. Just what we love and, and kind of a ride through
 the whole thing. I mean, we even got like an intermission track in there that's just us jamming
 in the studio. You know, I'm glad you said that because I'll say this. So, you know, since we met,
 I've become like the world's greatest thousand horses fan. Just because, you know,
 if that's when you meet somebody and you like them and then you knew, and I liked your music,
 I'm not like smoke and I knew I'd heard drunk out a little bit, but I knew I didn't hear it enough,
 you know, now worn it out, at least with my wife or something. Just like, are you going to play
 that song again? Yeah, yeah, get over it. But, but in all seriousness, here's where I'm going with that.
 The level of craftsmanship and, and the quality of the music and the abilities, like I told you,
 I felt like every song had like 18 instruments going. Like, dude, I'm just saying like, it is
 really quality, quality like music, musicmanship or whatever the hell you call it. But like, just the
 quality of the instruments, the sound, like, I just felt like there was a depth on every song that
 felt like there was a lot of fucking attention paid to this. Yeah, man, there was. And, and, and,
 and we, you know, we wore these essence. Yeah, we, we play a thing and we, we didn't do that,
 and we do that well. And we worked hard on getting to that level of, of being able to do that.
 And I appreciate you saying that again about the record. And we took time with it, you know,
 we had time, we took time to really craft, opposed to doing it the easy way.
 What's the, I mean, are you going to shop that record to try to get a deal or are you all just
 going full bore independent launching it? Man, it's, it's, it's all up in the air right now.
 Okay. You know, we're going to forge it ahead like we do. And, you know,
 the opportunities that are right or have arisen from it already, you know, take it slow.
 You know, we've been in, in the mix of it for a long time. And, and, you know, we're open to
 any and all opportunity that comes as long as it fits our narrative and fits our, our vision
 for what we want to do with the, the band and the record. When does the decision have to be made,
 though, like, okay, you've, you've mastered it. You got some other stuff going on, artwork,
 music, video, whatever that might be. But when do you have to decide if you're going to self-release it,
 or if it goes elsewhere, I mean, is there a, is there a line in the sand, or one way or another,
 you're going to self-release it, it just might get picked up or something.
 Yeah, we're, we're kind of in that process right now, figuring out how, how long we want to wait,
 or, or do we just want to go ahead? Yeah. And that's to be honest with you,
 that's exactly where we are. You know, it's done. The hard part's done. Now it's the planning
 that goes into it. You know, there's a, there's a lot of 18 to 24-month plans you write at,
 or something for a release, you know. And that's, that's kind of where, where we're at. You know, we,
 we, we like doing it ourselves and on our, on our timeline, and being in control of it.
 And if that leads to another deal in the future, because we've built it more and more than,
 you know, that's, that's best for all parties involved. But you gotta keep moving, you know,
 and, and like I said, the world's changed, and releases have changed, and music's changed,
 how people can say them has changed. And, you know, we want to give our audience and our fans
 music. You know, that's, that's, that's why they're there, and, and they're the best in the
 world, and they stuck with us through this whole time. And they don't care about any of this
 business stuff that you and I talk about. Like, it's just great music. Go put on great shows,
 and, and have a great time. Where's your tour going to be? Oh, man, you know, right now,
 we're up in like West Virginia, and then we got a few things, and up, we're going on
 Terry O'Canada for a show this summer. We're going to be announcing soon. We're, we just released
 this wooden wire project, what it's called, and it's the acoustic songs. So we, we think some of
 those songs off the last record and re-imagined them acoustic, and then we added a new and
 audit called Don't Move the Tennessee. And we're going to go out and do an acoustic run,
 a shows like in small venues, and, and, and play the songs in a different way. And like,
 you get the wooden wire experience of a thousand horses, and then come out this summer, and you
 get the big band full-blown thing with the record. So we're, we're working on putting that together
 starting in May. And I'm sure we're going to be close to Greenville. I think that's on the list
 of cities and close. You're coming to Greenville. Come on, man. Yeah. Well, that's the only place
 close. So we're, that'll be it. And once we finalize the details of it, and we're looking forward
 to that. We never, we've never done. And we, we, we love playing, you know, acoustic as stripped down.
 And, and that's going to be a lot of fun. And it's kind of give you that wooden wire experience.
 And we're going to continue wooden wire series, one, two, three, and four after every record.
 Just to give, you know, a different way of listening in music, a different way of, of,
 of dealing it, you know, that a lot of people don't get a chance to see. It's rare. Talk to me,
 like, like, you know, when you go back out on tour, it's still politics, like, as long as you're
 independent, will there ever, will, will, is there just not going to be like a thousand horses opening
 for, uh, Eric Church? I mean, how you know, like, is, is that just even though things have changed a
 lot, are the, if it's, if you're not on the same record label or something, is that just become like
 impossible? Hello, not at all, man. I mean, those kind of things come from, you know, usually
 guys like Eric Church, like, if they like your record and they're like, what you're doing. And
 obviously, world, it's a small community around here, you know, but friends, you know,
 they'll, you know, graciously ask you to come out and, and play with them. And, you know,
 you jump on those opportunities. Okay. So those are still, those things are still out there. They
 don't, they're not, because I imagine 10 years ago, it was probably record label driven stuff,
 even if they wanted, I mean, I guess that they got enough power, like, doing anything they want,
 but that you guys, they'll, they'll, they'll bring independence on the road with them.
 Oh, yeah, I mean, just because you're independent and on a major or, or whatever,
 that has nothing to do with who you tour with. Okay. And how you go out with, you know, that,
 that has to do with, you know, what kind of venue art is a fit? What they do? Do they like what you
 do? And what opportunities, you know, are in the, in the play to help out the whole,
 the whole package. Yeah, right. It's not really a, well, I can't take you out. You're not on
 capital. Okay. It's not that level. I mean, they, I mean, the, you know, companies gone for
 their artists to go out with other people and things while we're, but it, it, it doesn't really
 play a role. Nobody really cares. I don't think artists wise, you know, who, who your
 order, what you're doing, it's just more about the personal relationship and then the music that
 you make, you know, and if, if it's something that they like, where's it all headed, brother?
 I know you, I know that's always the million dollar question. Like, let me, let me rephrase it.
 Where do we, where does Michael hobby want this to go the next 10, 20 years? Like, you know,
 like, where did, what, what's, uh, what's the, the perfect playbook for you?
 Man, as far as we can take it, you know, this is something, you know, music to me, I can't stop
 being a musician and an artist. And it's what I signed up for. And it's what I love. And it's what
 God gifted me to do. You know, I, I believe all of it comes from a higher power in, in this world.
 And, and to have fun with it and take it as far as you can take it, you know, and, and you know,
 everybody will tell you, I want to do stadiums. I want to do this. Well, yeah, those are obvious
 things who doesn't, but enjoy it while you do it, you know, because it can get to the, it can very
 easily not be enjoyable and the throws of it. And, and finding, you know, we get to play music for a
 little man. I mean, that, that was my dream when I, and so I'm living it. And, and living proof that
 you can do it too. It's, it's just so, I want to take it as far as we can take it. And I, I love my
 band. I love their world family. And, and we love our fans and playing for people and meeting
 people and that's never going to stop. So, you know, to put up, to put up a, a, all know I've made it
 win. There's no, there's no limit to that. It's, it really is, it's, you know, you'll get to the
 top of one mountain and you got to go right back now, get back up to the other one. You know, but
 enjoy it along the way, you know, more important things than, than fame and, and success and life,
 especially where we at, where we're all at at our age. And we're young, you know, but still with
 families. There's just more to it now than there was when we were 20. Of course. But, you know,
 business and life and everything is driven by relationships and, you know, I'm just glad,
 and music brings people together. I mean, I'm just glad I met you, man. I can't wait. Yeah, man,
 you know, I do want a granny. I want a Grammy. Grammy. All right. Yeah. Hey, dude, you're talking to
 the right man. I make shit happen. That's why I did this. You know, if only by sure will and
 manifestation and just that's it. You know, like I just, you know, I don't know. I just don't take
 no or accept anything but a push and shit, man, and stuff that I love. And I don't know. I get
 blessed to do what I love and talk to guys like you and, you know, make connections. And
 but you're blessed, man. Caroline's wonderful. Sonny is awesome. You know, she is. Thank you.
 Yeah. I love. No. It's clear. They're the best. How can everybody get up with everything a thousand
 horses in Michael hobby? Man, a thousand horses. Just all our stuff is a thousand horses, you know,
 a thousand spelled out horses. And then at Michael hobbies, all my handles on social media,
 and whatnot, but you can follow along or journey it and say hello. And we'll see you in a town
 at some point. And it it'll be it'll be a good time. You'll have a great.
 Yeah, man. So if you're listening, go follow these guys. You can tell you can see how good
 of a guy Michael is, how real, raw, original this group is. And you'll thank me for it later.
 Especially once you hear the jams, man, they are off the chain. And you know what? If you don't
 sign with the record label in this new album, we're going to do something and get this thing just
 to fucking blow up on TikTok and everywhere else. So we're going to figure that we're going to
 break the algorithm. All right, let's get out. Let's do it. Break the algorithm. Hey guys,
 you know where to find us. We're at the radcast.com. If it's radical, we cover it. That's why we have
 the best in the business, including Michael hobby with a thousand horses. You know where to find me.
 I'm Matt Ryan Allford on TikTok Instagram, Facebook verified on all the channels because you know
 you're going to get it wrong and real. We'll see you next time on the radcast.