Ball Hammocks and Bold Branding with Jens Nicolaysen CMO of Shinesty

 It has to start somewhere. It has to start some time. What better place than here? What better time than now?
 Hey guys, what's up welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast?
 Hey guys, what's up? It's Ryan Offer welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. I
 am joined today
 By maybe the rest of all rads. I don't know. It's up there
 It's for sure up there, Jens, but Jens took a lace of the ladder. See you, Bo!
 Co-founder of Shionesty. What's up brother?
 Hey man, thank you guys so much for having me on. Hey, you know, it's funny on one of our most recent episodes
 Had a guy on and I was like, you know, the most you know appropriate name for a podcast might be a radcast for you guys
 But now I'm gonna throw it out
 There can't be a more appropriate podcast for Shionesty than the radcast
 Certainly not. I don't know if we can like self-proclaim being rad, but we'd like to think that we're rad
 That that Hawaiian shirt if that is what it is if there's nothing rather than a shirt and
 And everything that is the boldness
 boldest of bold brands that is Shionesty very revered very cool
 Which we're gonna get into but loving everything from the brand. I know we talked about it
 For your episode, but I've been in the vortex of Shionesty content
 Down that rabbit hole and it was hard to get out of it in my juvenile
 Just I guess the little boy or old boy or whatever you want to call it. It just kind of sets a humor, but it was fucking hilarious
 Good strategy strategy is working. Yes, it is. It's definitely working
 but so Shionesty so
 Partyware intimate where ball hammocks. I mean, you know, we got to go down to that rabbit hole real fast
 And that's you know, we talked about it strongly didn't rain
 Let's go right out. I mean it is like front and center when you hit the website
 It's like you know no banana hammock. It's a ball hammock people ball hammock
 Well, you know, we we actually do have kind of a long and sometimes sorted history with with banana hammocks as well
 We we started out selling
 Really like the initial like industry the company was, you know, a peril for all of life social moments
 And those are everything from you know swimming in the beach with your friends to the four of the july to
 Christmas to Halloween to the Kentucky Derby and and everything in between
 So, you know, yeah, we we sell a lot of underwear and a lot more mainstream products like the shirt now
 our history is really rooted in those
 Many many many life's many of life social moments
 Yeah, do we have to go where you know, yeah, I was thinking like
 Good one, but is it more than is it just a sheet?
 I've been to plenty of Togo parties
 It was always just how she how inexpensively can you buy a sheet at Walmart or Target?
 This is true. This is true. I guess that's like the first thing it came to mind when I think about that
 That down though. That might be a challenge to our product team
 How do we make you look it? How long is Togo Togo parties needed like some secondary
 Editions to the lineup, you know, where the hell have you been all our lives? Why are you over here working for us?
 Hey, we talk about that later. I know you guys keep things in house, but maybe we can go out of house
 You know, you know, I you know, I you like it hire me for free just because of how fucking cool the brand is so
 I I'm like you just wanted on the resume that I had like you know point one zero ideas for shyness
 As long as you that mind being compensated and in underwear with the ball hanging side of them
 Oh, my pouch inside of them you did where it was pride where it was pride
 So Jens, let's talk a little bit about you your background what led you to shyness the what led to you know
 We've talked about a little bit the event where party event where but let's give a little bit of the origins here
 Totally well, I I studied marketing in college and I guess I'm maybe one of those those rare individuals that actually does what they studied although I say what I do now is is very
 It does not exactly resemble what you study in school or at least when I went back when I was in school
 But right out of school well actually my interesting marketing kind of stemmed from just consumer behavior and psychology in general
 And I really saw marketing is kind of like the business outlet for that where depending on how you price things depending on how you
 Position things depending on the way the creative communicates with individuals
 You can actually change their behavior. So that really fascinated me and out of school
 I got into management consulting basically with a emphasis in marketing and I was primarily like
 Primarily working for very large brands though like
 Nestle portfolio the Coca-Cola portfolio the Pernodocard portfolio and the list kind of goes on and on and on and on from there
 And it was really great. You get to see a lot of big brands are built how you know big businesses are managed and run
 But you don't really get to see like kind of the modern ecosystem of digital marketing
 You didn't really get to just didn't get a lot of exposure to like the digitally-nated brands that you know
 We were part of now
 and if I had kind of like one
 You know regret while I was in can management consulting is still like at the end of the day you kind of pass off a strategy and recommendation
 You don't ever get to see it through to completion and
 Whatever I really loved about my time in China's D is that you know
 We got to learn all these things we manage everything in house. That's going to be probably a big theme of everything we talk about here
 But we really got to see you know in China's D
 We really get to see where the rubber hits the road and how things are actually built from the ground up
 Versus basically that
 It's basically a project stopping at a you know big report and then that's it
 You kind of hope that someone takes your recommendation and does something with it
 Yeah, we have that in common. I will say that haven't worked with a lot of large brands at the agency over my years
 That was always a little bit of frustration. There were some projects where you know in some client where they really involved you down
 At the ground level of okay, here's the sales and I this but I mean I don't know about you
 But I don't know how many projects or how many clients that work with where you know work
 They're paying us big money. These are huge product launches and like we do some part of it
 And you might see a report
 But you don't ever really feel
 Every and see all of the elements and all of the ups and downs and sales and the and you know
 Much less that did all the digital metrics that might be there, but it that was always frustrating
 No, and you never really know if the success of like an idea or the failure of an idea is because of the idea itself
 Or it was because the execution and that's probably another reason like when we have good ideas
 We like to you know think that we're probably the best people in most cases actually bring them to life for that reason
 Most functions most channels and everything that we've done have all been built and managed in house
 Yeah, I love that so
 The origins of shyness, though were you know party wear and you know didn't ever want to give that up
 That's right. Yeah, my business partner and I and I got to give a lot of credit to him
 He this this was kind of his original brainchild
 It but we had a similar experience in college where we were both like
 We love going to theme parties and events now we're graduated though, so like
 Time to get rid of our party closet party stops here. Let's join the real world get jobs and you know be be grownups and
 Fortunately fortunately for everyone in college listening to this that's not true
 The party does go on it doesn't matter if you're 21 fresh out of college
 You know 30 with your first kid or 65 and retired people party through their whole life and so
 That's kind of a big learning for us. We really thought this was going to be like a young professional
 Kind of brand people who had a little more to suppose one come but didn't have the time to get fine cool
 Cool parallel for all of life social moments
 But fortunately we realized like actually know people have a need for this across their whole life and for that reason the market is much bigger than we ever imagined
 um
 And so yeah, we really got started by like
 If that's kind of the impetus for the products we wanted to create these really like cool irreverent
 Products for all life social moments whether that's again Christmas in Patrick's Day of Fourth of July are all you know tailgates
 The list goes on and on and on and we kind of created product lines around all these big big events
 Um and we're kind of like thinking about the products and we're like you know what this is like if these products are going to be pretty extra
 Like the brand should be really in your face. It should be irreverent. It should be snarky. It should be sarcastic
 It should be polarizing just like the products are and in a lot of ways
 I was kind of a reaction to a lot of the brands that were you know becoming big at the time online that
 You know looked really clean. They're sophisticated, you know, they're run well and in a lot of cases
 Um, but they all are kind of like serious and like minimalist and we were like no
 Let's actually like kind of put the script and be maximalist basically like let's be in your face
 Let's be very different than all all those brands with just like this kind of copy and paste aesthetic
 And I think that's certainly help us stand out. I certainly think we are polarizing as a result, but
 That's one of the biggest reasons for our success overall I would say
 Our marketing philosophy in general is to
 entertain first and self-second and so we really hope that comes through and everything that we do and we kind of consider
 A badge of honor actually like to be actually polarizing if we get some blowback from what we're doing
 That probably means that we kind of towed the line and went went just far enough because
 We like to think that like brands in the middle
 Brands that like barely kind of aren't appealing in a really really really strong way to anyone
 Are dying or just will never ever stand out. So in order to really really appeal to some people
 We think you kind of got to like alienate some people along the way and that way you know you really landed with an audience
 Oh, yeah, okay a lot to unpack there
 So I'm gonna start with this this key insight people
 We got a lot of people start at brands middle brand CEOs at large companies and listen to the red cast
 But this is the how Lugia amen that I want to highlight
 entertain first
 Self-second no matter what brand you are wherever you are however you are
 If I had an amen button amen
 Say it and hit it right there because that is the key to marketing your branding in 2021 and what you don't have to be selling
 Ballsack
 No hammocks
 Or whatever it is I'm adding I'm adding hyperbole here like but but uh to uh to be entertaining you can be a lawyer or a doctor
 A pharmacist a you know insert profession here entertain first self-second
 Hey, that should be in the Bible playbook of commerce in 2021
 Yeah, well, I mean, I'm really glad you pointed that out
 I mean clearly we think of that in our version of entertainment is through comedy
 I think a lot for a lot of brands that it's just not going to be the way they entertain people
 You can entertain people through other types of content though you can educate people
 There's a lot of other ways to add value that are not comedy which is probably what we'll continue to talk about
 But if you think about it from just a sheer practicality of like as a consumer
 There's a rule. I think I'm pretty sure it's 3% but it's some percent and it's some small single digits number
 That is like at any time only 3% of a market are actually like in need of a product
 And that was like especially true for us in fact
 I think if you're selling a denim print
 The denim print banana hammock
 The market is probably even a lot smaller than 3%
 And so we kind of figured we needed a way to keep communicating and engaging with customers when they didn't need our products
 Because the chances that they needed some like
 Really out there, you know full pattern Christmas suit or
 Denim printed banana hammock or whatever it was was really really really small
 So we needed a way to keep people engaging with the brand to keep them opening emails watching our ads
 Even if they didn't need that product at that time because most of those have a really specific time in place
 That doesn't happen every single day or every single weekend
 Ding ding ding ding attention is fleeting when customer you need to keep your customers attention at all times as much as you can
 So that when they do need your product
 They're still around or they had a reason to be around because what happens is in today's world people are so brand unlawful
 You know, they they follow the needs and where attention is and so they forget about you
 That's what people forget they're like so busy acquiring new customers acquiring new customers
 But how do we keep the attention and the leverage with the clients that we already have
 This is like a this is like a masterclass in marketing already
 Well, thank you
 No, I mean, I'm glad you you happen upon that it couldn't be true and it's it's I think what's made us be so successful today
 So I will say this so just speaking from personal
 Observation over the years back to the party themes and all that
 It's such an insight too because
 My wife and all of her friends we do a stuffer club and every one of them is themed
 Now they're not told the things but we do them
 They're all themed like we had the winter wonderland party like we had all this stuff
 It's snowed it never shows itself going to snow it on the day we did but I was like we call that in but
 The insight though that people his girls guys
 Kids boys girls. This isn't like one. They're the other people love fucking theme parties. They love that shit
 They die they they want to get dressed up. They want to have fun
 They want to release from the everyday world and people still love all that stuff
 Yeah, I mean, it's like universally people love getting together
 And there's certainly like if you add a theme to it you add this like layer to the onion that makes the whole of that more fun
 You got a plan for it when you're actually there. It's a lot more fun. So you know that was
 That was a pretty critical insight and a pretty critical thing
 I needed to come together for this to be a business at all and you know that was the first
 Basically four years of this business was just kind of scaling to the through these types of events and releasing new products new prints for those
 Events only in like the more you know recent couple years is a really shifted towards being
 Trots product lines that have a lot more like mainstream lifestyle appeal, but yeah, I mean
 We really thought we really really thought this was just going to be like a
 Young professional or college-aged audience and then we were like totally surprised when like 30-year-olds 40-year-olds 60-year-olds were buying
 And and actually it was a really pretty broad audience much broader than ever because
 I love it
 So talk about maybe the innovation cycle for you guys like how do you
 You know whether it's product whether it's marketing will go broad in the innovation sense, but what's that
 What's that process like for you guys like obviously you have a very
 modern your reverent
 fun brand
 In many ways, you know, you think well that makes it easy to be innovated all that but not necessarily
 I don't I would you know, I think I'd love to know
 How that product development market development, you know, just the innovation cycle for you guys. How do you guys stay fresh?
 That's a really it's a great and loaded question
 I know there's a lot there
 Good seven questions, but I like to put them all into one thing. Just put them all out there
 Yeah, so you can answer it as you flows and naturally that's 20 minutes string of words follows
 You know
 The way we've done it is probably different than a lot of others would do it
 The very at the very beginning like we couldn't afford to create huge product lines for tons and tons of events
 That you know had shirts and shorts and underpants and jackets and swim trunks in them like if you think about all these themes
 Christmas Fourth of July. Sorry. That's great test. I've got a huge blister on my hand for watching video or you guys are gonna have to cut that out
 Uh
 Forever
 You got all these themes right all these different times throughout the year and then you got all these different product types
 And if you think about the quantity of combinations, it's basically
 Impossible for like a young, you know, largely bootstrapped or friends and family, you know
 With a little bit of friends and family money to go out and test all of these products and categories
 So we started with vintage clothing and that allowed us to test a lot of different product types across a lot of different themes
 And from there we were kind of able to triangulate around
 Which you know combinations of those got the most interest from people and even though we couldn't sell
 You know over and over like tons and tons of USA windbreakers for instance because they're all vintage
 They were all went off we were able to track other signals behind the scenes like
 How many people lingered on that product how many people tried to add a cart at a cart even though it was out
 So we could start to figure out which products had the most mass appeal on our site from there
 You know, we started either white labeling products or buying dead stock products to be able to sell more and more
 And then we started to be able to actually develop our own private label line and today
 Decide is you know 99% products that are designed and manufactured in house
 Um, so that's kind of like the earliest days of product innovation
 um
 From there it's really become kind of two part one
 We're trying to think about like what are large market areas where there is kind of no
 We're either with there's there's limited product differentiation and our brand can stand out
 or where uh
 I mean, I guess that really is it like everything we're trying to do is figure out hey
 Can we apply our you know, a reverent unique brand to large categories whether that's apparel or maybe in the future not apparel
 um
 Because we really see our creative our content as the biggest differentiator and obviously we want to we're going to create amazing products
 Along the way, but we're kind of trying to identify large market segments
 In order to really inform where we you know, put all of our product development time and all our marketing creative efforts
 What's the creative inspiration come from i mean where is it
 That's a great question too. I mean this brand and all the creative we put out would not be possible
 And it would not work without the the people internally
 It comes from everybody that works at the brand who
 Loves what the brand stands for who you know believes in our mission to force the world to take itself less seriously
 And so we're always trying to think about like you know at the at the end of the day if we're going to market a product
 It has to solve a
 Need of the customer and there are probably product features and benefits that make those
 They actually solve those problems. So those need to be communicated
 But the way you communicate them can be really really a reverent and the more a reverent we've made things
 The more it tends to stand out from 99.9% of other advertisers out there that are pitching their products in like boring generic ways
 and
 So our kind of like mission with all of our our
 Content and all of our creative really is to entertain first cell second and
 Those two things really go hand in hand because people are are inherently drawn towards entertainment
 They're inherently drawn towards comedy. It's a positive emotion
 And then if you're actually appealing to them because they have a
 You know a problem or a need that to to be solved and a product that can authentically fulfill that need
 You've got a complete you've got a winning recipe. It's gonna take off
 Absolutely talk with gins
 Nickelase and CMO and co-founder of shyness D you can find them online. You can google them at shyness D
 shy
 STY
 Yeah, man. There's a lot to impact there as well. It's like I can't think of like everything now is so damn PC
 Everything is so serious like I mean, it's like I'm exhausted like that was part of the beat going down the vortex with you guys
 It's like well, it's kind of you know, I've been dying to see like another happy Gilmore like Adam Sandler like just silly movie
 Like they don't make that shit anymore. It's like when I went down the content rabbit hole with you guys
 I was like, you know, I was like this was like tension relief or something
 Like it's like is there ever been the right brand at the right time to like kind of like put through the you guys are nailing it
 Well really appreciate that it's definitely something we try to hang our hat on
 It's not easy to have a strategy like that. You got to really be continuously pushing creative
 It means you're gonna like alienate people so if you ever take a strategy like that
 You got to be able to say like we know this isn't for everyone
 But nothing is like so few things are for everyone that I think it's in much more inherent strategy to take than try to appeal to everyone
 um
 And I think it's one of those things that it's a risk if it's not I've done it
 Typically it's gonna go down in flames
 So but if you think you can do it authentically if you think you've got a repeatable
 content and brand strategy
 It can help you stand out because
 said 99.9% of brands and businesses do not take that approach
 Yeah, I'd say 99 point if there's another number there like 999, you know
 Absolutely, but uh, let's talk a little bit of nuts and bolts of marketing
 You know what's work for you guys? What are the what's the bread and butter? You know
 Bear say if we can you know, there's very little secret sauce anymore in their trillion marketing tactics
 It's more the creative and the brand that you've built that makes it stand out
 But maybe talk about some of those nuts and bolts like what you guys lean on for for telling the story
 Yeah, well, you said it really well
 I first off creative underpins everything we do because it is the biggest point of differentiation
 today in digital marketing
 Um the things that work for us are tend to be the things that work for most businesses selling online
 You got search paid in organic you got
 CRM email SMS that type of thing you've got direct mail you've got
 paid ads
 Pid social organic social
 It's the things that tend to work for everyone that work for us for a reason and
 You also said this really stutely like there's not a lot of secret sauce to those things at this point like the management of those channels is
 It's not totally formulaic like but there is a tried and true process out there and if you get the right person in the right seat
 Those are a great job managing that channel
 And then it's really the creative and the product that has to keep you standing out of those channels
 uh
 So
 Yeah, I mean to really sum this up
 We operate probably the same channels at 99.9% of other
 digitally native
 Direct consumer brands do and
 We run them really well. I think I was being able to get to this you know scale that we're at
 but
 The reason we've been so successful on those is truly because of our creative and our product that stands out
 Yeah, and it certainly does but how
 Talk about
 You know, maybe some more of the channels like is you know tiktok's growth
 It strikes me as maybe the right platform for you or maybe not I'm not sure like it's first to be like
 Oh, you guys are on tiktok. You're young and you're but you know like like you said are older
 So I can go either way on this, but what's been the tiktok strategy is it been uh
 Something you're just kind of still testing or is it like something that's a real needle mover for you guys
 It's not really something that we put a lot of time and effort into yet candidly
 um
 I will say like there's a lot of these things that come from and and tiktok does look like it is going to be a platform through staying power
 um
 But I think there's a really you know delicate balance that at least businesses like us
 We don't have like unlimited resources. We haven't raised a ton of money
 We have a pretty lean marketing team all things considered
 And so I think there's real cost benefit that goes into
 diverting your focus to kind of explore nascent channels versus putting that time and effort into the ones that are really driving effort today
 It's it's a delicate balance of how much you invest in these platforms and sometimes those real first mover advantage and sometimes like
 The algorithms and the paid plat paid side of it are just not developed enough to have it
 Really reap disproportionate returns from the level of effort and that same level of effort could get you a lot harder put into
 a more established channel
 um
 That said will we go there? Yes. Well, will we like figure out what it's gonna do? Yes. Have we?
 No, not yet. Well, you
 Just very wealth, but what I call and recommend a lot of people at 80 20 roll like 80% of your business is probably because
 It coming from 20% of the available channels out there and you're funneling where
 Your audience is now and where you you know, you're getting and diverting you know energy
 Which is both engage I call market energy both you know, yes sales as part of that
 But engagement energy and overall brand-depth and then of course the revenues and so it sounds like you're you're being strategically focused
 Which is smart again, but I do I could see I'm I'm envisioning because I've been I've been delving
 We've been really digging in I'll take time
 I can see it I can see that coming through your future might open up even another channel for you guys
 But hey the time will come
 I yeah, I think it's all just about you know exploring those things at the right time for the business and like
 I like shouldn't a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of marketers to like don't
 Drop everything just to do the next new thing and the next new thing like you should you know
 You got to zoom out you got to look at your business
 You got to look at your biggest opportunity and you got to realize you everyone for the most part has
 limited resources and so you got to use those limited resources to get you the most impact
 You know now into the future, so
 Hey guys go about thinking about e-commerce like obviously that's where your sales are happening
 I get I'm
 Not aware of an in-store. I mean you guys are 100% e-commerce right
 Yeah, I mean 90 I know you do some of the events and things like that when you know the the monster that's COVID wasn't around
 But I'm sure that'll come back, but uh is uh
 Yeah Shopify how about Shopify platform
 Yeah, I've been happy with that and the uh any any any ups down sideways
 recommendations for your entrepreneurs out there just on the kind of direct e-commerce side of the business
 It's a great platform, you know, they're always like getting things together and learning how to be a better
 You know better platform for the largest retailers that are on there, you know, if you're just starting out
 It's a great platform the more you scale the more you try to push the bounds of it. That's when you kind of
 You know tend to feel those those limitations disproportionately
 But they're doing a lot. Yeah, they're doing a lot and we've been generally really happy on them
 So I would highly recommend it. Yeah, we were shop. I didn't mean to like set you up
 But you he's going to perfectly
 We're shop by partner and about 85% of the companies come to us. We push them there no matter where they are
 They're probably say there's always a chance like some good of a gentle to do the custom solution or things like that or
 We're just custom built, but it seems to really assist with a lot of the blocking and tackling of of e-commerce
 So just curious to totally I mean I think
 You think about the brands that got started on on Shopify and how lean they've been able to be from like a development standpoint
 Like people used to have to hire huge engineering teams database architects and
 Just to have a site and you know
 Shopify has done so much to just and some others
 We've done a lot to just democratize that and make it so easy to get up and running and
 Test the product market fit without having tons and tons of expensive overhead to do it
 What's the
 You think on the horizon first time Steve whether it's marketing content product lines
 Anything you know kind of in your
 You know things you can talk about
 Yeah, this this really relates back to
 uh
 Your question before about like product development too. So now that we've you know built a
 Seven-figure customer base
 We have a lot of ability to think like you know you can put new products out to them and test it a lot easier than
 Uh, you know starting a business a new product where you only have paid
 Avonus for instance
 So a lot of what we're doing is is looking at that customer base and thinking what peripherals me like what is the composition of that customer base based on different product types your themes or whatever
 You want to have you want to break it down and then you know, it's pretty easy for us to see like okay
 These are the big groups of people these the big products they buy and then to start to think about really deep about peripheral products that they also need
 If someone likes our underwear
 Can we make can we put that technology in swim trunks or shorts? Can we help them you know
 Get their balls cleaner those types of things are are just ideas of where we're just ideas of where we're going
 I love that and uh and another
 Masterclass of marketing here
 Everyone this is why you build first-party data. This is why you build your customer base because
 Growing and acquiring customers is expensive and time consuming and it takes a lot of time and once you get to scale
 With your customer base like you guys have it gives you a lot of ability not only with product development
 But with remarketing with lifetime value
 There's so many things that become at your at your call when you developed that you know that database
 Totally once you have a like active and voracious audience and you just you know put new things in front of them that they expressly need or they didn't even know they needed
 It you know the flywheel effect is is really real and
 Any entrepreneur starting out
 Like it's so easy to just think about acquisition and acquisition because at the beginning that's where it's like most of your
 Your scale and success is going to come from and quickly
 But if you're ignoring the long-term proposition of what's going to keep your your customers engaged
 You are never going to achieve profitability and you're never going to have everything power
 So what's what's the long tail for for gins. I mean like just riding this train like uh
 We need uh personal or professional goals out there
 Yeah, that's a that's a really big question. You know, I'm uh
 I'm a new father and I've got a you know 16-month-old so I'm learning how to be you know how to continue growing this business
 And putting my all into it while so you know being a new dad, which is an amazing experience
 A lot of learnings a lot of trials and tribulations, but but certainly an amazing and deeply fulfilling thing
 But yeah, I mean we've got
 Every time we've reached a new stage of success at China's D we've realized wow there's even more out there to come
 And more out there to come and every time you kind of hit a new one of these like
 Levels of success. It just becomes in some ways harder
 But another way is easier to just see the next stage and see the next stage
 So I think we've got a long way to go. I think we've got a lot of exciting product lines
 I think we've we've done the hardest thing to do which is prove that
 people love our brand and our our philosophy around it
 And now that we've proven that out we think it'll be a lot easier to kind of copy and paste on the categories
 Love it man. We're care about keep up with everything China's D and Jens
 I'll prove every platform is going to be at China's D threads
 And you can keep up with me. I'm on LinkedIn if I can help anybody out. Please shoot me a message
 Jens J E N S Nikolayson and I C O L A Y C N
 There's not a lot of them on LinkedIn
 So wait man, it's been great. I'm
 I dig the brand man. I'm digging everything you guys are doing
 You're doing a masterclass in marketing for how they engage how to entertain and how to keep your customer base and
 acquire new customers through
 Entertainment not selling
 Love it brother. Hey, man. Really somebody's having me on. Yeah, man. It's been awesome
 You know where to keep up with China's D. He just told you where that is what you want to be doing with your brand
 You may not be irreverent
 But you need to stand out. It's more important than ever. This is Ryan offer
 You know where to find us the radcast dot com at d dot rad dot cast
 And I'm everywhere at Ryan offer and on tiktok. I'm verified at raya dot offer
 Go look find search
 Keep up with all things radical morning. We'll see you next time on the radcast